Do you think we will see the REAL OT turtles in the 2012 toon?

[Jester]

Though I agree with you Coola, there were times, right in the pilot, where April did tell the Turtles to, "get serious for a minute."

[gobo]

Originally Posted by TurtleFan2012

Do you think we will see the REAL OT turtles in the 2012 toon?

I doubt it, but maybe.

[TurtleFan2012]

Originally Posted by The Big Bad

Hey, remember that time, Leonardo threw lipstick at the wall of April apartment for no damn reason, or that time where they donned clothes just to dance in the streets in broad daylight?

An argument can be made that the nature of some of the jokes in Turtles Forever were not of the sort that would have been made in the old show--the noogies, for example. But if the turtles are "laughing idiots" in Turtles Forever, it's because they were so in the original cartoon.

Sure they laugh, but not at every damn joke they make. As a matter of fact, they usually laugh AFTER completing a mission, not in the middle of it. I don't remember all 4 of them laughing while being tied up or giggling while Shredder is pointing a deadly gun at them. That would be kinda awkward and stupid.

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

The turtles still took stuff seriously. The tf movie made it seem they never did at all. Yeah they might laugh or diss some of shredders lamer plans but they didn't stand around laughing and joking until splinter demanded they stfu and do something about it. They also weren't laughing and acting silly in their free time either. And noogies are not a staple in the show. It's like having the 2k3 tmnt guest star and have Raph constantly say 'shellacious!!' Cuz we all knew he always said that in the 2k3 series right? They didn't need to throw in a fake routine in there.

As annoying as phealous is, his review was spot on. His joke was repetitive but it's because the movie also kept nailing it into the ground.

Not to mention Leo was the serious one and Don was serious when it came to science and didn't just grab wires and tie them up randomly. Or confuse a wrench with a hammer. Or say science isn't just about facts you know. Leo had no character in the movie almost.

And finally yeah they laughed at the rhino and warthog incident cuz it sounded stupid. It's like we must find shredder oh and btw some zoo animals were stolen. Um.. Wtf April? Random? It wasn't until she mentioned that robots took them that they got serious and decided to check it out. They didn't stand around laughing and doing noogies at each other until April got fed up and demanded they got serious.

Bingo! I love this guy! There were times I wanted to tell the turtles in Turtles Forever to stfu. The turtles in the 1987 show actually made me laugh.

[gobo]

Unless Nick & Fred Wolf have a deal that says Nick can append to Wolf's continuity, we can expect another group of imitators, just with the authentic voices this time.

[Luckyday]

Man, everybody seem to be so work about this. Keep in mind folks that goofiness of the OT crew was to set them apart from the 2k3 just like how the mirage turtles were portray to be as gritty as **** to make them different from the rest of incarnations. What other traits are they're suppose to show to make them different then the other versions.?

[Jester]

Originally Posted by Luckyday

Man, everybody seem to be so work about this. Keep in mind folks that goofiness of the OT crew was to set them apart from the 2k3 just like how the mirage turtles were portray to be as gritty as **** to make them different from the rest of incarnations. What other traits are they're suppose to show to make them different then the other versions.?

I don't know...personalities?

Seriously, just because they have the same basic archetypes doesn't mean there aren't distinctions between the way the FW series executed them and the way the 4Kids series did.

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

Of course there are distinctions. Ironically, Nick has been better to Michelangelo than most of the other incarnations. He's still the goofy little brother, but they've made it a point that he's eccentric/nonsensical, NOT stupid, whereas the 2003 series had him acting like a retard, and the 2007 movie had him acting like a pothead. To me, the 2003 series TMNT are pretty much the Mirage turtles until you compare them with the Mirage turtles side by side.

[Luckyday]

My point is that it was fun seeing them clash with each other, so if they're not going to have any kind of tone thats sets them apart then way bother having a crossover at all?

[Jester]

The tones of the series WERE different enough that they could show that without resorting to basically making a joke of the FW Turtles.

[cammy85]

I hope they're treated better this time too. OT Leonardo sorta explained their behavior in Turtles Forever when he said they've beaten Shredder hundreds of times so they falsely assumed it shouldn't be too hard They loosened up a bit when told that Ch'rell/Shredder was deadlier than their Shredder.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by Jester

The tones of the series WERE different enough that they could show that without resorting to basically making a joke of the FW Turtles.

How should they be portray by not being goofy and still be different? WHAT is the tone that makes them different?

[Jester]

The biggest issue if they made them goofy in a way that the FW Turtles weren't goofy. The only thing they got half way right was the 4th wall breaking.

[TurtleFan2012]

One guy mentioned that the writers of Turtles Forever put in a lot of effort by making references to the OT show and having cameos. I hate to be harsh, but those things wouldn't make us forget about the 4 Mikey clones. Don't get me wrong, the cameos and references are neat.

Imagine if they did this with Batman. A writer can make as many Batman references and homages in a crossover story, but if Batman is portayed as a sniveling coward or an exaggerated version of himself, readers will frown. It wouldn't matter if Batman saved the day at the end of the story.

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by TurtleFan2012

One guy mentioned that the writers of Turtles Forever put in a lot of effort by making references to the OT show and having cameos. I hate to be harsh, but those things wouldn't make us forget about the 4 Mikey clones. Don't get me wrong, the cameos and references are neat.

My points was they did a lot more than that. They took specific scenes and even lines of dialogue from the Fred Wolf show. It's hard to argue that OT Leo wouldn't say this or OT Don wouldn't do that when those things were taken directly from '87 show.

Like I also stated lets not pretend that in the OT the turtles didn't all morph into one character when the plot needed it to. Again I gave specific examples of this happening and I can think of more if you like.

My second point was that the belief from some fans of the Fred Wolf show that they were making grave insults to the '87 show and that whole thing was just to knock the old show to make their own look better is stupid. To include so many references and call backs and visualy get every detail of the '87 characters and world right (when they didn't even spend that effort getting their own to look right) they must have watched an awful lot of the show and gone to a lot of effort. Do you really believe they did all that just knock the old show? Really?

Imagine if they did this with Batman. A writer can make as many Batman references and homages in a crossover story, but if Batman is portayed as a sniveling coward or an exaggerated version of himself, readers will frown. It wouldn't matter if Batman saved the day at the end of the story.

No version of Batman to my knowledge has ever had him act like a coward whereas it happened a few times in the OT. Either as a result of some kind contivance like a weird ray like in "Bebop & Rocksteady Conquer the Universe" or simply weird writing like in "Snakes Alive" were Leo abandons the battle due to his cowardice.

Also plenty of modern depictions of the Camp era Batman or the Dick Sprang comic era Batman get exaggerated. Most fans tend to see it as a good natured rib as opposed a grave insult that fans saw TF as.

[Coola Yagami]

I wonder what will happen if the turtles were portrayed the right way in the 2012 show. Will cybercubed say they were portrayed wrong and that the tf version was right?

[Luckyday]

I am just wondering how they're going to do it while still making them act distinctly different from the 2012. I still want them to clash with each other.

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by Galactus

Kind of like how any media bringing up the Dick Sprang era of Batman is seemingly deriding it and not affectionately poking fun at its sillyness.

It baffles me that peope think 4Kids went to all the trouble of making the characters and their world so visualy correct right down the trash in the streets. The fact that they had to have watched so much of the old show to actualy work in obscure stuff for easter eggs and lines of dialogue, so again they went to all that effort simply insult it?

Forgetting that the OT's characters wackyness that kept saving the day why is it that people can't get that if anything it was at the humour a lot of times was at the expense of their own creation. Was the joke overdone? Somewhat but there's tons of examples to show why it's an accurate portrayal. Seriously it seems like Fred Wolf fans can't take any kind of knock to the show even a light hearted affectionate one.

With your off-topic logic of the past Galactus, by giving me an art imagery response for a character behavior/depiction issue I proposed earlier, it was futile for me to even continue that earlier discussion. Now with this similar off-topic response, it just validates it even further of how futile it is for me to bring it up.

...But whatever you want Galactus...


Anyways...
If anybody is wanting to discuss this topic, and interested in the position of others' opinions on this topic there was one of a few threads about it: http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=42029


I'm just going to restate my position, as I've said before and leave it as that:

Originally Posted by JYX

LOL, well consider me as part of that "minority" then...

While I enjoy "Turtles Forever" by itself and do like to watch it. I do feel that the 4Kids writers unfairly portrayed the OT Turtles. But then again, I'm not too surprised since there was sometimes a snide hint toward most references to the OT in the 4Kids show. The 4Kids show was good, but the OT references were lowbrow. I know others will say that 4Kids were "complimenting" the OT, but when you compare the OT references of 4Kids to Nick. Well...there seems to be a tinge of distaste of the OT with 4Kids. (i.e. Raph smacking Michelangelo everytime he tries to say "Cowabunga!")

It's somewhat annoying when some say that "Turtles Forever" accurately depicted the OT Turtles characters when its more a Flanderization of them. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...Flanderization With the 4kids Turtles lecturing the OT Turtles so often, it made the OT Turtles come across to be just as incompetent as Bebop and Rocksteady. Especially when this incompetence is pointed out again and again and again in the movie.

Yes, the OT Turtles had obvious slapstick fighting methods, but they almost always took the threats by any villain seriously in the original show and didn't laugh it off or cower away as in "Turtles Forever". Seasons 1, 7, 8-10 (Red Sky Seasons) at least minimally prove that.

[The Big Bad]

The turtles still took stuff seriously. The tf movie made it seem they never did at all. Yeah they might laugh or diss some of shredders lamer plans but they didn't stand around laughing and joking until splinter demanded they stfu and do something about it.

And yet, saying that that's all the 1988 Turtles (to distinguish them from the Fred Wolf turtles--) did was joke is a mischaracterization of their portrayal in the film. Take any of the fight scenes for example: the '88 turtles take for the most part just as seriously as their counterparts, and the moments when they don't are notable because they are exceptional.

What's more, I could mention moments in the original cartoon, when they would indeed stand around and do nothing (which doesn't actually happen in Turtles Forever--once the threat is established, they don't need persuading to go after the Shredder), the most notable being in "Turtle Tracks", where the turtles, who have joined April in her investigation of the rash of theft by ninjas, decide to abandon their search after finding a pizza shop. This is the first episode.

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by JYX

With your off-topic logic of the past Galactus, by giving me an art imagery response for a character behavior/depiction issue I proposed earlier, it was futile for me to even continue that earlier discussion. Now with this similar off-topic response, it just validates it even further of how futile it is for me to bring it up.

...But whatever you want Galactus...

It's really not going "off topic" to draw a comparison with another property if that's what you're referring to.

I don't really know what you're trying to get at. This thread is a discussion involving the characterisation of the '87 turtles in Turtlles Forever. Obviously my opinion hasn't changed since the last time I contributed to a discussion on this subject and obviously neither has yours.

Regardless I must (again) reiterate how silly it sounds that people believe 4kids made this special and go through all that money and effort with the intention of trolling fans of the Fred Wolf show.

I'm just going to restate my position, as I've said before and leave it as that:

Just skimming over that thread again it sounds to me that yourself and others who didn't care for the characterisation of the '87 turtles don't really want to debate with anyone and get angry if people point out specific instances that the Fred Wolf turtles did act similarly or exactly like they did in Turtles Forever.

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

I wonder what will happen if the turtles were portrayed the right way in the 2012 show. Will cybercubed say they were portrayed wrong and that the tf version was right?

The Fred Wolf characters and continuity was extremely malleable so barring something extreme I don't think there's much "right" or "wrong" when it comes to portraying them.

Obviously a lot of fans would prefer the characters to be characterised like in "Shredder and Splintered" and "Splinter No More" as opposed to how they were in "Snakes Alive" and "Donatello's Badd Time" but both are equaly valid takes on the Fred Wolf show.

I still stand by that given that we're apparently only getting the four turtles Nickleodeon wont be putting in so much effort to really portray the overall '87 show even if the turtles are characterised in the way most fans would like to remember them.

I hope that it is what fans want but given the constant whining about what was a complete valentine for the 80s show I would get an inward chuckle if Nickleodeon did focus on the goofier aspects in the similar manner to 4kids.

[Jester]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

And why would you ask someone if they were autistic on a tmnt forum? That's damn rude.

Rude, but sadly I've often wondered that about Cubed.

Originally Posted by The Big Bad

...in "Turtle Tracks", where the turtles, who have joined April in her investigation of the rash of theft by ninjas, decide to abandon their search after finding a pizza shop. This is the first episode.

But their searching LEAD them to Ninja Pizza.

Originally Posted by Galactus

I hope that it is what fans want but given the constant whining about what was a complete valentine for the 80s show I would get an inward chuckle if Nickleodeon did focus on the goofier aspects in the similar manner to 4kids.

Complete valentine? Really? Ok...sure.

I'm not saying that the 4Kids staff was "trolling" the FW Turtles, but it's obvious that they can't write the comedy the same way that the FW writers could. Even in their own series the jokes were often groaners. Now turning them loose on the FW Turtles and you're bound to have seemingly off characters. That and the constant eye rolling, snarking, and general meanspiritedness exhibited by the 4Kids Turtles against the FW Crew made it come off poorly. Maybe that was the point. I mean 4Kids Splinter does confront his own sons about their treatment of their alternates.

Man, this thread makes me wanna pop in Turtles Forever and pick out moments I think are "out of character" and see if I can find a suitable example of it in the FW series.