Official Episode Discussion: S2 #7 "Slash and Destroy"

[kelligrafie]

Originally Posted by BabyTurtles

IDK.....pigeon pete was pretty nice for a mutant

the only good guy that mutated and turned evil was Timothy.

everyone else was more or less already evil XD

Leatherhead was tortured so he has a good reason to be emotionally unstable.

and the roach-terminator was trying to get revenge on Raph for almost killing him! I'd say that's every bugs dream actually XD

EDIT: OH wait Kirby kinda turned evil....in a way....so I guess that counts XD

Evil's a strong word. I'm pretty sure you can only apply that to Krang.

Even Shredder's not what I would define as totally evil. If he was, he would not have saved Miwa. Yes he's stolen her and used her against Splinter but he could've left her to die.

Timothy's just messed up in the head. And Kirby is like the monkey, I think he'd only be violent if he was attacked.

[BubblyShell22]

Originally Posted by LeoRaDoMic

Man, I really loved this episode. And Slash is fantastic! I really want his action figure if the scale is allright. I'm hoping he's not going to be small like Leatherhead.

But I didn't like the clumsiness of Leonardo in this epsiode, and the unrealistic tea-time moment. Why does a child react on a mutated Turtle that way?!

The other thing I don't like is that the Turtles have really much (impressive) damage during the fight with Slash and shortly after, and when they are in their lair, all the big damage has dissappeared...

And I don't understand how a relative small turtle like Spike could mutate in a monster like Slash. I mean, Spike was a little bit bigger than the Turtles when they were normal unmutated Turtles. It has made more sense if a snapping turtle would become Slash. And by the way; I miss Spike already... I got four Turtles myself (you can guess their names hahah) and I loved the relationship between Raphael and Spike...

The animation of this show is wonderful and Nickelodeon is really doing a suberb job

Well, kids are pretty easy to convince, so I can understand the girl's reaction to Leo. She could just pretend she imagined him and even if she told someone, they wouldn't believe her because she's a kid and kids are prone to exaggeration. Still can't wait to write that fic about her though. She's sweet.

The reason the damage mostly disappeared except for Don's sling is that it's a cartoon. Things like that happen all the time.

I agree that it's hard to believe Spike could mutate into Slash that way, but the mutagen is unstable and unpredictable, so I guess we're just supposed to go with it. I'm glad you have four pet turtles and like them so much. It's nice to have something like that to hold onto.

[JTH]

Originally Posted by BubblyShell22

I agree that it's hard to believe Spike could mutate into Slash that way, but the mutagen is unstable and unpredictable, so I guess we're just supposed to go with it. I'm glad you have four pet turtles and like them so much. It's nice to have something like that to hold onto.

I don't think it's that hard to figure out. The turtles were exposed to a human and turned into humanoid turtles.

A normal turtle was in contact with a human turtle and thus turned into a humanoid super turtle. IDK, it makes sense to me at least.

[blue_angel99]

Wow....this episode....wow!!!!

Spike having such animosity for the other turtles right away is understandable. Had Raph not been ranting on his bros for so long, Spike wouldn't have hated them.

Leo's mini adventure was epic!!

[Jester]

Man, really hard core episode. I liked Slash well enough, but his motivations seemed a bit off. Why exactly did he wanna straight murder Raph's brothers?

[electric_sheep]

very, very weak episode, the plot was waaaay to rushed plus slas is totally out of character, raph accepted that slash became a monster to quick, plus Raph Vs Leo crap again, i thought they settled already. And that is problem with the show in general, it often forgets what came before and backtracks all the characters all the way back...

[rodster6]

It was a rushed plot and I too found Slashs motivations a bit to flimsy but still an enjoyable episode and by far the best representation of Slash so far in a cartoon.
I loved the toy as a child and imagined him being a pupil of Shredders and a skilled Ninja. Then I saw the 80s cartoon version annnnnnd lets just say I was less than impressed.
I hope somehow Shredder takes Slash under his wing and we finally get to see him wearing the shredder wrist blades that the 80s toy had.

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by Jester

Man, really hard core episode. I liked Slash well enough, but his motivations seemed a bit off. Why exactly did he wanna straight murder Raph's brothers?

well I'm thinking cause all Raph talked about with Spike was how bad his brothers were......can you imagine...if that's all you hear most of the days XD

and since Spike mutated he finally had the power to do something about it

.....also Spike was just a pet turtle before he mutated....he didn't have 15 years of learning about what's right and wrong like the other turtles did.

at least that's what I'm rolling with XD

[Electric]

Originally Posted by BabyTurtles

well I'm thinking cause all Raph talked about with Spike was how bad his brothers were......can you imagine...if that's all you hear most of the days XD

and since Spike mutated he finally had the power to do something about it

.....also Spike was just a pet turtle before he mutated....he didn't have 15 years of learning about what's right and wrong like the other turtles did.

at least that's what I'm rolling with XD

That's what I think it is.

With that, I think slash wants raph for himself. He's always had to share raph with the others, and all slashs perceptions about then is that they are bad. So he wants to get rid of them for raph, so it's just them. He even says he doesn't want to fight raph. Just the brothers.

[rodster6]

I was impressed with Fledmans voice work on this. I never liked him as Donny in the movies and thought whoever did Dons voice in the second film suited the character better. He worked great as Slash though.
I found the Leo scenes kinda boring and a distraction from what I was actually interested in, I.E Slash.

[Ninjinister]

Originally Posted by electric_sheep

slas is totally out of character,

How could he be out-of-character if this was his first appearance?

[electric_sheep]

Originally Posted by Ninjinister

How could he be out-of-character if this was his first appearance?

*Slash. He's out of characters from everything that he's been in before, he was always Hulking misunderstand monster, yeah he was dumb but he had a good heart, he was never evil...

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by electric_sheep

*Slash. He's out of characters from everything that he's been in before, he was always Hulking misunderstand monster, yeah he was dumb but he had a good heart, he was never evil...

it's a new version of him, a different interpretation of the character ^_^

[JTH]

Originally Posted by electric_sheep

*Slash. He's out of characters from everything that he's been in before...

And that's a bad thing?

[Electric]

Originally Posted by electric_sheep

*Slash. He's out of characters from everything that he's been in before, he was always Hulking misunderstand monster, yeah he was dumb but he had a good heart, he was never evil...

It's a new take? It's not out of character. It's a change.

And he still is misunderstood. He was trying to rid raph of his brothers because he thought it was needed. They just changed the dumb to intelligence.

[Metalwolf]

Originally Posted by ElectricN

It's a new take? It's not out of character. It's a change.

And he still is misunderstood. He was trying to rid raph of his brothers because he thought it was needed. They just changed the dumb to intelligence.

How is he misunderstood? He called them dead weight and wanted to be rid of them so it would only be him and Raph. Plus he ended up ultimately attacking Raph, which seems to show that this 'loyalty' is conditional because Raph chose to side with his brothers over letting Slash get rid of them.

The way Slash talks to him right from the beginning is a bit manipulative too, it's the 'Nobody understands you but me.' Normally someone doesn't say that unless they want to have that person under their thumb, as Spike/Slash has been around the other Turtles and hasn't been kept constantly in a cage or in Raph's room.

If Spike/Slash has been intelligent enough to pick up on Raph's ninja style and whatever he was saying (enough to know and use correct English) for years, then he's not dumb enough to miss the moments when Raph is getting along with his brothers and seeing the camaraderie that happens too.

This Slash is likely to be an evil manipulative guy, probably more pissed now that Raph rejected him. I see him going to Shredder and having Shredder feed his anger over that 'betrayal' and Raph's brothers being picked over him. I see Slash as a villain, and likely to remain as a villain until he dies or is demutated.

[Technogeek29]

Originally Posted by electric_sheep

*Slash. He's out of characters from everything that he's been in before, he was always Hulking misunderstand monster, yeah he was dumb but he had a good heart, he was never evil...

That doesn't really hold any water. The Ot Turtles aren't like their 2k3 selves, the 2k3 aren't like their 2k12 selves. And if you want to pull that form of logic, none of the cartoon counterparts are like the original Mirage comics. (not entierely anyway)

Edit: Anyone catch Spike smiling when Raph swat Mikey with the comic?

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by Technogeek29

Edit: Anyone catch Spike smiling when Raph swat Mikey with the comic?

YES!! who knew the little guy wanted a try.......

Spike secretly sadistic.

[Refractive Reflections]

This episode was actually enjoyable this time. I guess because this episode didn't depend on the ongoing arcs involving Karai, April, Splinter, Kraang, or Mutagen Man. I enjoyed it in that it expanded Raphael's character here in exploring his anger, and how his desire of not being controlled or dependent on his brothers was granted, but it turns out to be in his own detriment with Slash personifying Raphael's untamed, bullheaded anger.

As others have wondered, as to why Spike/Slash was wanting to destroy Raphael's brothers? Well...knowing how choleric Raphael's personality is in complaining all the time about his brothers, cause who else does Raph go to when things are not going his way? Its no wonder Slash wanted to destroy them. Not justifying Slash's anger and brutality as right, but it gives a reason as to why Slash was behaving that way. For the episode, I was pleased with Slash's voice (Corey Feldman's voice) and the character so far.

And as for people trying to figure out how the mutagen changed Slash's personality, don't even bother with that one. There's no consistency to even consider substantial logic with it. Just accept the whimsical nature of it, no matter how outlandish it is.

The plot was a little thinner than usual, but I didn't mind it because it focused on Raphael's character and it was better than most predictable "Mutant of the Week" episodes. In addition, the sideplot with Leo and the small girl was good comic relief from the brutality of the fights, and it showed a more playful side of Leo with so many being quick to call his personality boring and drab with his character.

Overall the episode was decent because its plot was independent from all the other arcs involving the series, and we got an opportunity to know about the characters (specifically Raphael here). Now it's not great or anything, but at least this is an example of the series doing things fairly well. ...Even if, again, there was no involvement with any of its ongoing arcs/subplots.

An episode like this would have normally given me a bit hope for the series, but this series (for me) has given a lot of disappointments and been on downward slope for too long though.

Edit: One thing I forgot to mention, was that I found the last scene with Nick Splinter's advice to Nick Raphael notably heartwarming but yet strangely haunting at the same time. Obviously it was heartwarming because it was encouraging to see Nick Raph cheered up and actually enjoy the moment with his brothers. Yet it was strangely haunting because upon hearing that advice about enjoying the friends of the present when one misses the friends/family of the past, I couldn't help but think back to the other TMNT universes about Mirage's Older Raphael (living alone), Archie's Future Raphael (remember even Future Raph tells Present Raph to enjoy his family more?), and even 2K3's SAINW Raph and their bleaker futures. Huh...weird...

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by BabyTurtles

well I'm thinking cause all Raph talked about with Spike was how bad his brothers were......can you imagine...if that's all you hear most of the days XD

and since Spike mutated he finally had the power to do something about it

.....also Spike was just a pet turtle before he mutated....he didn't have 15 years of learning about what's right and wrong like the other turtles did.

at least that's what I'm rolling with XD

I agree BabyTurtles. Spike has mostly heard the negative about Raph's bros from Raph himself, and the times he's been in the lair with them often seem to also confirm it that Raph is being held back and abused by his bros.

Slash was particularly brutal to Mikey and Leo since they are generally on top of Raph's list if complaints.

Donnie on the other hand has had the odd complaint now and again and of course the fiasco that nearly caused Spike to get blown up. Which Donnie was seriously remorseful about. And that remorse may have spared him from Slash's wrath partially.

When Spike takes him first he takes him behind but doesn't kill him. Instead he gives Donnie injuries that could limit his chances of survival on his own. Seeing as with that sprained arm he would be able to climb anywhere all that easily and his other injuries were enough to cause him to hobble around using his bo staff and/or one of his bros as a crutch. It is also possible that Slash had intended to due away with Donnie later after he killed Mikey and Leo.

Mikey he was particularly brutal to, with the double beat down and also intending to drop him off the side of the building.

And Leo he was ready to outright murder Leo right then an there. In Slash's mind Leo is the eldest brother and leader so by that right the chief offender.

The only times he turned on Raph was when Raph was calling him evil and a freak for what he was doing to his brothers. This in turn was making Slash upset because he was doing what he felt should be done to make it so Raph isn't held back by his brothers. And that Raph was too blind to see that he was doing all this for him.

But his last moment before he fell off that building was of Raph trying to reach forward and save him, even though he is the one who also caused him to fall off the building. And of course the look off remorseful horror on Raph's face as watches his friend fall to his death. And I think that will come into play into Slashes further appearances. However I also think Slash will have to do a lot of convincing to get Raph to trust him once again.