Leo & Donnie-Should they butt heads? - Page 3

*victory_angel* · 02-23-2014, 05:12 PM

Well remember Leo still not informed his brothers that Karai is their sister. And Donnie was the only turtle who was irritated with Leo for hiding her existence from them. Raph and April were disappointed because they did know about Karai and Leo's infatuation with her, while Mikey was more surprised Leo would trust someone from the Foot Clan in general.

And I wouldn't put it past Nick to have that friendship be built up only to come crashing down during the big reveal.

*Warhorse* · 03-23-2014, 01:49 AM

You know, this could be a good way to mix up the team a bit. Having Leo and Donnie disagreeing about something to the point that they fall back to confide in the brothers they tend to not normally confide in. Leo could hang out with Mikey more, and Donnie could hang out with Raph more. This doesn't have to go on for like an entire season, just maybe 2 or 3 episodes the most.

*victory_angel* · 03-23-2014, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warhorse

You know, this could be a good way to mix up the team a bit. Having Leo and Donnie disagreeing about something to the point that they fall back to confide in the brothers they tend to not normally confide in. Leo could hang out with Mikey more, and Donnie could hang out with Raph more. This doesn't have to go on for like an entire season, just maybe 2 or 3 episodes the most.

When I initially thought of this as a concept I had taken note that while there is a generally close relationship between Leo and Donnie as there had been in previous incarnations. However the two of them are testier then they have been in previous incarnations.

Your concept of Donnie and Leo disagreeing with each other would could lead into development between how they act with the Turtle that is their polar opposite. And I can definitely see that happening.

However something else that could happen is that Leo and Donnie could be in disagreement over something. Then one of them could be in a situation where they need the others help, but the attitude of the other is pretty much like that scene in mousers attack where Leo and Raph are being chased down by Mousers. So they call Donnie and Mikey to ask for their help, but they are still too proud to admit they need their younger brothers help.

However this results in this case is that something happens to one of them and that one is nearly lost forever (might be a good way to introduce a SaiNW plot line) And the other feels a sense of regret because of it.

LivingMutagen · 03-23-2014, 07:53 AM

No, they should Beavis (yay for bad jokes)

*LeotheLateBloomer* · 03-23-2014, 08:11 AM

To me, Donnie has always been a pacifist. While he will come to disagreements with the others and can be irritable in this version, seeing him argue a lot to me just doesn't seem like Donatello. Even with Mikey, who he probably disagrees with the most, he never gets into any type of heated argument. Why exactly would you want to see Don butt heads with Leo? I think that is more of Raph's type of role considering he's the one who wants Leo's leadership.

Anton Chigurh · 03-23-2014, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

To me, Donnie has always been a pacifist. While he will come to disagreements with the others and can be irritable in this version, seeing him argue a lot to me just doesn't seem like Donatello. Even with Mikey, who he probably disagrees with the most, he never gets into any type of heated argument. Why exactly would you want to see Don butt heads with Leo? I think that is more of Raph's type of role considering he's the one who wants Leo's leadership.

Agree, to me it would take somthing for the great dynamic of Leo and Raph's relationship. Plus Donnie is to smart to argue with any of the other brothers.

*Warhorse* · 03-23-2014, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

To me, Donnie has always been a pacifist. While he will come to disagreements with the others and can be irritable in this version, seeing him argue a lot to me just doesn't seem like Donatello. Even with Mikey, who he probably disagrees with the most, he never gets into any type of heated argument. Why exactly would you want to see Don butt heads with Leo? I think that is more of Raph's type of role considering he's the one who wants Leo's leadership.

Well, let's not act like spats between Leo and Donnie haven't happened before, but it's usually been cleared up by the end of the episode. And the Raph and Leo conflicts, are always expected, I'd like to see the writers mix things up a bit and do things that are unexpected. Right now, they seem to be following very similar formulas, they just change up the Turtles (even in the first episode, it was just like the first episode in 2k3, they boys are spatting and one comes out on top and gets too cocky and Splinter puts him in his place, 2k3 had it Leo and 2012 had it Raph, the episode that has Raph meeting Casey Jones, same situation (although I think the 2k3 version was more hard core) 2k3 Raph attacked Mikey, and 2012, he attacked Leo.

We've been seeing the same thing for quite some time, let's see some changes. Let the writers get a little unpredictable, like I said, it won't be too off the beaten path to have Donnie loose his cool a little and get a little snarky with Leo.

*LeotheLateBloomer* · 03-24-2014, 01:12 AM

You don't want to change something just for the sake of change. There needs to be a reason for Donnie to clash with Leo. And why specifically Don? Why does he need to be the one to argue with Leo? I would think Mikey would be the one to argue with his brothers considering how he is always treated.

*victory_angel* · 03-24-2014, 02:36 AM

There could be reasons. Such as for example the others have taken advantage of Donnie and pressured him when he isn't working fast enough for their tastes. So maybe he is attempting to make retromutagen, but something like the TV breaks in the lair so Donnie is expected to drop whatever he's doing to deal with it.

However this time Donnie is saying that what he's doing holds more importance. And that gets Leo on his case about how he's been obsessing about creating this "Retromutagen" for months now and he's had no success in making it. So he's going to have to accept that it can't be done.

Donnie tries to defend it and say its only impossible because no one has truly tried to create a cure for mutations before. And just because he hasn't had success yet, he still is determined to find a way to cure April's father.

And this is where Leo lights into Donnie about how he needs to get over April, because while they value her as a friend and ally. And he understands Donnie's determination to restore Dr. O'Neil's humanity. However she is also a distraction and he's getting way to obsessive over her. So he needs to accept that perhaps she doesn't want him in the way he wants her to want him.

*Warhorse* · 03-24-2014, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

You don't want to change something just for the sake of change. There needs to be a reason for Donnie to clash with Leo. And why specifically Don? Why does he need to be the one to argue with Leo? I would think Mikey would be the one to argue with his brothers considering how he is always treated.

Mikey has argued, but it's really not his schtick in this show. Donnie has been shown in this show to have a short fuse as well, and it would be funny to see him butt heads with Leo.

*victory_angel* · 06-30-2014, 12:47 PM

In one of the convention panels last year the producers of the show said they were intending to look into Donnie's effectiveness as a leader. Now while we had have seen hints of Donnie becoming a second in command in his own right, the only time he has been officially a team leader was in Wormquake when he was teamed up with April and Casey.

After this recent episode I can certainly see them have a reason for the show to play into Donnie as a leader.

1. Because there is allusion to the Turtles being forced to leave the City. It's typically around Northampton arc where Donnie takes over as team leader because Leo is usually incapacitated or mopey, and they need someone with a calm head to lead the team.

2. With the recent episodes, Leo has become really impulsive in trying to reunite Karai and Splinter.

I can certainly see him trying to encourage his brothers in striking out at the Shredder while the iron was still hot and making him pay for what he has done. And this time it's Donnie who stands up and maturely says "No! Look at what we've lost already. If we go after Shredder in this state, any of us could be seriously hurt or worse. Is that what you want?!"

HotNunchuckFury · 06-30-2014, 04:32 PM

I've always seen Donatello as a calm, level-headed and rational guy (I prefer him in the 2k3 series the best), so this idea didn't initially appeal to me. However, in the IDW comics it works really well. I had my doubts at first, because I considered it as being out of character for Donnie, and I was also worried about where that would leave Raph, as we all know it tends to be him who always challenges Leo, but it works just fine. Leo's spiritual beliefs versus Donnie's scientific logic - it makes sense they argue considering they're always looking at things from completely different viewpoints. I also think it works well because Raph was initially missing, so Leo had already been leading his other brothers for a year or so before Raph joined the group, making him much less likely to begrudge Leo's lead. As for the Nick series I'm not sure if it would work as well. Yes they've given Donnie a shorter fuse and put him under a lot of pressure, but Leo's leadership already gets questioned enough by Raph, and I think the way all four interact with each other needs to be considered when altering the family dynamics.

*ssjup81* · 06-30-2014, 04:56 PM

I personally would love to see Leo and Donnie clash about something. I just feel it would be interesting. I wouldn't want it on the level of Leo and Raph, but something. It would be nice to see how Raph and Mikey would react to something like that since it would be so out of the ordinary, or how the conflict will be resolved and the lesson learned.

Someone mentioned the OT episode, Donatello's Duplicate. He was overworked and under appreciated. He thought Leo had his back, like usual, but he ended up asking Donatello to fix his toothbrush which annoyed Donny. Later in the ep, when Donny's clone was invading the city with rats, Leo stayed on Donny's case over how if he'd fixed the things like they'd asked none of what had happened would've happened. Guilt tripping him. Too bad Donny didn't snap on him...but the guilt tripping worked.

So yeah, I would like to see some actual conflict between these two. I could see Nick Donnie snapping, though mildly, at some point given his short fuse.

*Shark_Blade* · 06-30-2014, 05:07 PM

Why "should" they butt heads? That's already been done in IDW.

They're so adorable together.

*LeotheLateBloomer* · 06-30-2014, 05:18 PM

Not to mention that both of them are the most level-headed of the group.

*ssjup81* · 06-30-2014, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

Not to mention that both of them are the most level-headed of the group.

That's another reason why I find those two possibly having a real conflict would be interesting to see. That's also why Donatello is usually "second". He and Leo are the most level-headed, hence why he's the unofficial second-in-command. Mikey and Raph are too impatient for that role.

I also now wonder if that's why they have the bandanna colors. Leo and Donnie have dark, serene colors. Raph and Mikey have bright, fiery ones. To match their personalities I guess.

I also noticed, recently, with the Nick designs, how their wraps are different. Leo and Donnie' are white/off-white whereas Raph and Mikey are shades of brown.

*IndigoErth* · 06-30-2014, 05:37 PM

Should they... sure. But I can't say I personally see it lasting very long. Ten min later they're prob both over it for the most part, unlike the brooder in red.

*victory_angel* · 06-30-2014, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssjup81

I personally would love to see Leo and Donnie clash about something. I just feel it would be interesting. I wouldn't want it on the level of Leo and Raph, but something. It would be nice to see how Raph and Mikey would react to something like that since it would be so out of the ordinary, or how the conflict will be resolved and the lesson learned.

Someone mentioned the OT episode, Donatello's Duplicate. He was overworked and under appreciated. He thought Leo had his back, like usual, but he ended up asking Donatello to fix his toothbrush which annoyed Donny. Later in the ep, when Donny's clone was invading the city with rats, Leo stayed on Donny's case over how if he'd fixed the things like they'd asked none of what had happened would've happened. Guilt tripping him. Too bad Donny didn't snap on him...but the guilt tripping worked.

So yeah, I would like to see some actual conflict between these two. I could see Nick Donnie snapping, though mildly, at some point given his short fuse.

And that's exactly the point. In the OT Leo and Donnie would normally have each others backs. They worked well together, and they fought well along side one another. And Splinter would often compliment them on how dedicated they are to training.

But occasionally they would have moments where they would clash, because their view points differ. Donatello's duplicate is one such moment. But another good moment is Night of the Dark Turtle where all the Turtles are teasing Donatello about the fact his techno-know-how is holding him back. And Leonardo chides him by saying 'Techno gimmickry is no substitute for Ninja skill.' To which Donatello shoot's back, "I could take out the Shredder on my own if I wanted to."

And to prove it he attacks the Shredder on his own and gets electrocuted. Then when the wakes up as the Dark Turtle the first thing he does is grabs Leo and growls "Why did you stop me?!"

The 2k3 Donatello and Leonardo were close enough to be considered extensions of the same person. Heck in Good Gene's, Leo even tells Splinter he's at a loss for what to do because the person he would normally look to for answers to the problem is the problem.

In this version Leo and Donnie have the same relationship they have in the OT, however it's testier. And trust seems to be a big issue with these two as it is brought up quite a bit.

For example in Alien Agenda, Donnie states "I can't believe you didn't trust us enough to tell us." which can be translated as "I can't believe you didn't trust *me* enough to come to me about this."

In Pulverizer Donnie hints that he trusts Leo more then Raph or Mikey because as he says "Leonardo was the one least likely to hit something just for the fun of it."

In enemy of my enemy after Leo has taken out the Kraang Ship and Karai has jumped into the water to rescue the Shredder. There is a moment where Leo turns and sees his brothers standing and waiting for him. Donnie seems to regard Leo with an unreadable expression before leading everyone away.

Spoiler:

And then moments later Donnie does attempt to at least comfort Leo.

Spoiler:

And Metalhead rewired where Leo and Donnie were at odds with each other about Metalhead. And it ended with Leo saying "You were right Donnie, I should have trusted you."

*victory_angel* · 07-01-2014, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssjup81

That's another reason why I find those two possibly having a real conflict would be interesting to see. That's also why Donatello is usually "second". He and Leo are the most level-headed, hence why he's the unofficial second-in-command. Mikey and Raph are too impatient for that role.

Often the second in command is not just an auxiliary leader. It is also their job to (temporarily) unseat the leader if he feels the Leader is acting with reckless disregard for the safety of the team.

*ssjup81* · 07-01-2014, 10:33 PM

I completely agree with you. The Dark Turtle, one of my all-time favorite OT episodes was definitely interesting and how Donnie can be riled up by Leo or the others or pushed to that level.

I really want some kind of conflict between them, even if it's mild. Enough for one of them to feel guilt over the rift.

View Poll Results: Should Donnie and Leo fight
Yes!	33	38.37%
No!	20	23.26%
I don't know, depends on where the season is going.	33	38.37%
Voters: 86. You may not vote on this poll

02-23-2014, 05:12 PM	#41
victory_angel Foot Elite Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Ca Posts: 3,108	Well remember Leo still not informed his brothers that Karai is their sister. And Donnie was the only turtle who was irritated with Leo for hiding her existence from them. Raph and April were disappointed because they did know about Karai and Leo's infatuation with her, while Mikey was more surprised Leo would trust someone from the Foot Clan in general. And I wouldn't put it past Nick to have that friendship be built up only to come crashing down during the big reveal. __________________

03-23-2014, 07:53 AM	#44
LivingMutagen Hench Mutant Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: In a canister Posts: 375	No, they should Beavis (yay for bad jokes) __________________ by Martinf

03-24-2014, 02:36 AM	#49
victory_angel Foot Elite Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Ca Posts: 3,108	There could be reasons. Such as for example the others have taken advantage of Donnie and pressured him when he isn't working fast enough for their tastes. So maybe he is attempting to make retromutagen, but something like the TV breaks in the lair so Donnie is expected to drop whatever he's doing to deal with it. However this time Donnie is saying that what he's doing holds more importance. And that gets Leo on his case about how he's been obsessing about creating this "Retromutagen" for months now and he's had no success in making it. So he's going to have to accept that it can't be done. Donnie tries to defend it and say its only impossible because no one has truly tried to create a cure for mutations before. And just because he hasn't had success yet, he still is determined to find a way to cure April's father. And this is where Leo lights into Donnie about how he needs to get over April, because while they value her as a friend and ally. And he understands Donnie's determination to restore Dr. O'Neil's humanity. However she is also a distraction and he's getting way to obsessive over her. So he needs to accept that perhaps she doesn't want him in the way he wants her to want him. __________________

06-30-2014, 12:47 PM	#51
victory_angel Foot Elite Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Ca Posts: 3,108	In one of the convention panels last year the producers of the show said they were intending to look into Donnie's effectiveness as a leader. Now while we had have seen hints of Donnie becoming a second in command in his own right, the only time he has been officially a team leader was in Wormquake when he was teamed up with April and Casey. After this recent episode I can certainly see them have a reason for the show to play into Donnie as a leader. 1. Because there is allusion to the Turtles being forced to leave the City. It's typically around Northampton arc where Donnie takes over as team leader because Leo is usually incapacitated or mopey, and they need someone with a calm head to lead the team. 2. With the recent episodes, Leo has become really impulsive in trying to reunite Karai and Splinter. I can certainly see him trying to encourage his brothers in striking out at the Shredder while the iron was still hot and making him pay for what he has done. And this time it's Donnie who stands up and maturely says "No! Look at what we've lost already. If we go after Shredder in this state, any of us could be seriously hurt or worse. Is that what you want?!" __________________

03-23-2014, 01:49 AM	#42
Warhorse Emperor Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 5,544	You know, this could be a good way to mix up the team a bit. Having Leo and Donnie disagreeing about something to the point that they fall back to confide in the brothers they tend to not normally confide in. Leo could hang out with Mikey more, and Donnie could hang out with Raph more. This doesn't have to go on for like an entire season, just maybe 2 or 3 episodes the most.

03-23-2014, 08:11 AM	#45
LeotheLateBloomer Foot Elite Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 3,117	To me, Donnie has always been a pacifist. While he will come to disagreements with the others and can be irritable in this version, seeing him argue a lot to me just doesn't seem like Donatello. Even with Mikey, who he probably disagrees with the most, he never gets into any type of heated argument. Why exactly would you want to see Don butt heads with Leo? I think that is more of Raph's type of role considering he's the one who wants Leo's leadership.

03-24-2014, 01:12 AM	#48
LeotheLateBloomer Foot Elite Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 3,117	You don't want to change something just for the sake of change. There needs to be a reason for Donnie to clash with Leo. And why specifically Don? Why does he need to be the one to argue with Leo? I would think Mikey would be the one to argue with his brothers considering how he is always treated.

06-30-2014, 04:32 PM	#52
HotNunchuckFury Foot Soldier Join Date: May 2014 Location: UK Posts: 160	I've always seen Donatello as a calm, level-headed and rational guy (I prefer him in the 2k3 series the best), so this idea didn't initially appeal to me. However, in the IDW comics it works really well. I had my doubts at first, because I considered it as being out of character for Donnie, and I was also worried about where that would leave Raph, as we all know it tends to be him who always challenges Leo, but it works just fine. Leo's spiritual beliefs versus Donnie's scientific logic - it makes sense they argue considering they're always looking at things from completely different viewpoints. I also think it works well because Raph was initially missing, so Leo had already been leading his other brothers for a year or so before Raph joined the group, making him much less likely to begrudge Leo's lead. As for the Nick series I'm not sure if it would work as well. Yes they've given Donnie a shorter fuse and put him under a lot of pressure, but Leo's leadership already gets questioned enough by Raph, and I think the way all four interact with each other needs to be considered when altering the family dynamics.

06-30-2014, 04:56 PM	#53
ssjup81 Foot Elite Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Central Virginia (Back in the US) Posts: 4,734	I personally would love to see Leo and Donnie clash about something. I just feel it would be interesting. I wouldn't want it on the level of Leo and Raph, but something. It would be nice to see how Raph and Mikey would react to something like that since it would be so out of the ordinary, or how the conflict will be resolved and the lesson learned. Someone mentioned the OT episode, Donatello's Duplicate. He was overworked and under appreciated. He thought Leo had his back, like usual, but he ended up asking Donatello to fix his toothbrush which annoyed Donny. Later in the ep, when Donny's clone was invading the city with rats, Leo stayed on Donny's case over how if he'd fixed the things like they'd asked none of what had happened would've happened. Guilt tripping him. Too bad Donny didn't snap on him...but the guilt tripping worked. So yeah, I would like to see some actual conflict between these two. I could see Nick Donnie snapping, though mildly, at some point given his short fuse.

06-30-2014, 05:07 PM	#54
Shark_Blade Emperor Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 7,909	Why "should" they butt heads? That's already been done in IDW. They're so adorable together.

06-30-2014, 05:18 PM	#55
LeotheLateBloomer Foot Elite Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 3,117	Not to mention that both of them are the most level-headed of the group.

06-30-2014, 05:37 PM	#57
IndigoErth Team Blue Boy Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: U.S., East Coast Posts: 16,295	Should they... sure. But I can't say I personally see it lasting very long. Ten min later they're prob both over it for the most part, unlike the brooder in red.

07-01-2014, 10:33 PM	#60
ssjup81 Foot Elite Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Central Virginia (Back in the US) Posts: 4,734	I completely agree with you. The Dark Turtle, one of my all-time favorite OT episodes was definitely interesting and how Donnie can be riled up by Leo or the others or pushed to that level. I really want some kind of conflict between them, even if it's mild. Enough for one of them to feel guilt over the rift.