donny Just flipped a car...Im treating this movie as a cartoon from now on.

[Gimme_Three]

Originally Posted by slingtheory

not at all I just prefer it to be more about being better skilled than just natually better than the other guy. It kills the underdog aspect when you physically outclass your opponents

3 of the turtles get captured so there should be balance.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by FellowChucker

They're giant, MUTATED, freakishly strong ninja turtles. The production is emphasizing the mutant aspect to the characters. They also happen to be extremely skilled in martial arts. Just cause they have super soldier like strength beyond normal humans doesn't mean they're not NINJAS. We're going to see some crazy action. Why on earth would anyone have a problem with that at all? It ramps up their abilities.

I have my issues with the movie, and they are quite petty and small, but the issues with the size and power don't bother me in the slightest.

[Netkeeper]

Originally Posted by slingtheory

not at all I just prefer it to be more about being better skilled than just natually better than the other guy. It kills the underdog aspect when you physically outclass your opponents

I agree with this entirely. Plot can still make it work, but I've always liked it better when heroes have to be strategic to win a fight. Employing their learned skills instead of smashing through things. It's a much more exciting and engaging scene to watch when the guys you're rooting for have to think outside the box.

[slingtheory]

Originally Posted by FellowChucker

They're giant, MUTATED, freakishly strong ninja turtles. The production is emphasizing the mutant aspect to the characters. They also happen to be extremely skilled in martial arts. Just cause they have super soldier like strength beyond normal humans doesn't mean they're not NINJAS. We're going to see some crazy action. Why on earth would anyone have a problem with that at all? It ramps up their abilities.

Because maybe you want the emphasis to be on the NINJA aspect instead. Maybe you don't think their abilitys need to be ramped up. The bigger is better mindset this movie has is my biggest problem with it as part of the reason I like the turtles in the first place is because they're not super powered. Their victories are earned through training and will power not them just being better than the competition thanks to their origin story. If their just stronger than everybody else where's the tension and the challenge? You'll have to scale up everything else to even have it be a threat to them.

[Netkeeper]

Originally Posted by slingtheory

Because maybe you want the emphasis to be on the NINJA aspect instead. Maybe you don't think their abilitys need to be ramped up. The bigger is better mindset this movie has is my biggest problem with it as part of the reason I like the turtles in the first place is because they're not super powered. Their victories are earned through training and will power not them just being better than the competition thanks to their origin story. If their just stronger than everybody else where's the tension and the challenge? You'll have to scale up everything else to even have it be a threat to them.

Exactly. The story feels more like it could be real [or at least, as real a story about mutant turtles could be] when their struggles are smaller-scale. When they're given brutish strength or super powers, it makes them feel no different from Superman who I also find lacking in the department of "being genuinely interesting". He's not interesting. He's over-powered and you know going in that he's going to win. When the ante is upped, it makes the story feel way too outside the realm of possibility and I just don't like that as much.

[pennydreadful]

Originally Posted by Netkeeper

Exactly. The story feels more like it could be real [or at least, as real a story about mutant turtles could be] when their struggles are smaller-scale. When they're given brutish strength or super powers, it makes them feel no different from Superman who I also find lacking in the department of "being genuinely interesting". He's not interesting. He's over-powered and you know going in that he's going to win. When the ante is upped, it makes the story feel way too outside the realm of possibility and I just don't like that as much.

Basically this. I like my characters to struggle. If I want to watch superheroes, I can pick up pretty much any Marvel or DC movie. I liked that the Turtles had all the same limitations as a regular person - their appearances were the only thing really different about them; other than that, they still had to sweat and bleed for their victories, just like a regular person. It gives it more dramatic tension for me, makes me relate more closely to their setbacks and losses and rejoice more in their comebacks.

[zodiac brave]

Originally Posted by slingtheory

not at all I just prefer it to be more about being better skilled than just natually better than the other guy. It kills the underdog aspect when you physically outclass your opponents

Originally Posted by FellowChucker

They can still be freakishly gifted, and skilled ... while still clearly being the underdogs. Mutant turtles from the sewers, protecting humanity? Going against mercenary, ninja commandos with assault rifles? Yea. Underdogs.

yeah. i was gonna say...

they're not going up against teens trained in "old style" martial arts. looks like they're going up against big-@ss commandos with assault gear and swat armor (and if theres any truth to the rumors that there are mutant-blood enhanced soldiers in this flick, then some "super powered" foes as well).

and yeah. GUNS.

Originally Posted by Netkeeper

Exactly. The story feels more like it could be real [or at least, as real a story about mutant turtles could be] when their struggles are smaller-scale. When they're given brutish strength or super powers, it makes them feel no different from Superman who I also find lacking in the department of "being genuinely interesting". He's not interesting. He's over-powered and you know going in that he's going to win. When the ante is upped, it makes the story feel way too outside the realm of possibility and I just don't like that as much.

well, this all depends on if the character drama only comes from physical and violent conflict.

yes, its michael bay, blahblahblah, so what character drama is there to speak of blahblahblah...i get that.

and you're right about superman.

but look at a movie like thor, in which the main hero is a GOD. with SUPER COSMIC QUASI MYTHOLOGICAL SPACE POWERS. most of the meaty drama there was family issues, loyalty issues, love and self-discovery. heck, many marvel movie characters are like this.

but, it's all about what the character goes through that GETS them to the physical violence that determines whether the "strength" or "powers" make the character boring.

like i said above. bay. yeah. ok. im not expecting anything that deep, but to say these characters will be boring simply because they're strong and powerful is missing the mark.

they'll be boring or bland (or not...maybe...hopefully) for other reasons.

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by chrisdude

Eh. Yeah, they seem to bend the rules of physics a bit, but so what? I don't agree with the prevailing Hollywood reasoning that you can do whatever wild things you want in animation, but if you film a movie in live action, everything needs to be realistic. Who drew that line?

Isn't it a negative that comic book properties only get live action feature films by being forced into a realistic world? Anything that helps break that barrier is fine by me.

I think when movies/shows/stories reach a level of seriousness (as this movie is seeming to display), the viewer expects things to be mostly realistic or follow some sense of logic, otherwise the movie can become a parody of itself creating ridiculous melodrama where common sense is thrown out of the window. (For example, how soap operas are ridiculed where there's a bunch of melodrama between characters, yet as intense as the characters' hardships may be, it doesn't dawn on them to figure out a logical way to deal with things.)

Now it may be entertaining for some, but I don't think that's what the movie staff intended, for their movie to be logic parody of itself considering how dark and "badass" they are trying to depict this 2014 TMNT movie to be. ...I could be completely wrong when I see it, but the dramatic music, effects, and cut scenes presented in the trailers, in addition to the fact that Bay and Liebesman have typically made heavy action and serious films, seem to want us (the audience) to take the movie and its situations seriously. Otherwise, why not add slapstick fighting then if the movie is intended to be that ridiculous/unrealistic then?

[Candy Kappa]

I'm just sad Donnie isn't using a Bo in this movie, while the other turtles keeps their weapons.

[UGHShellshocked]

Just can't win with everybody on this thing.

If he lifted it up with his body people would have shat all over it.

If he actually used what he was known for and created a bo-staff that he is able to use to flip a car (and probably that shipping container that crashes into the foot) people are still ******** all over it.

Pessimism is a Pandemic of the world.

[Sighphi]

Originally Posted by xChri5x

That scene had nothing to do with strength at all. The momentum of the car is what lifted it up, not Donnie.

Example (the person being the car ):
http://polevaultdream.files.wordpres.../07/vaultr.gif

All he had to do was place the bo in a specific spot on the car and on the ground and voila! If anything this is a scene where brains are used over brawn.

Yes, yes, i see.

[UGHShellshocked]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

I'm just sad Donnie isn't using a Bo in this movie, while the other turtles keeps their weapons.

I think he does use his Bo staff but like Inspector gadget has many many variations of them.

[electric_sheep]

Originally Posted by graphic_content

Donnie used physics - as someone mentioned in another thread, he used his staff like a pole vaulter.

After extending his staff, he wedged the bottom tip into a stone firmly embedded into the mountainside, and the truck's momentum did the rest...

http://i.imgur.com/1uw0pRL.jpg?1

And that stick is so strong that it can lift 6000 ponds? yeah...
Even Goku would be jealous, hell even mighty mjolnir would tremble before it...

[tmntfan4ever]

I cannot get it to play here so here is the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUBL7y9FSTg

[sh3llshocked]

I dont know...I think they may be going for a darker approach in the filming style of this movie, but all this "real" talk going on around here where people are saying, "they are trying to make this movie more real, so why can donnie flip a car, etc." I dont think this is the case. Im trying to figure out how people have come to the conclusion that anyone is trying to make "everything" more real? Yes, we know the turtles are bigger with accessories on their body and they now have a different face, but I would chalk that up to artistic license...every interview Ive heard I just keep hearing that this is the new "interpretation" of the turtles. Not...we are making realistic turtles that mutated. And if people go into any movie like this assuming that because it isnt a cartoon that its real and accurate...or should be, then please show me examples of sci fi action movies that do that in their films.

To me nobody should have create a post saying, "Im viewing this movie as a cartoon now." Because while it may not be 1987 cartoon over the top, it is definitely going to be filled with situations that aren't real, and that bend physics for the audiences amusement.

Heck, if what people want is realism, okay, but if thats the case I think at least half the turtles should be killed in this movie. Why? Because in real life, few people...weither its a ninja, policeman, solider, or other can put themselves in harms way and not have something bad happen. Read the news and look at what happens when good people put themselves in harms way. So, in reality the TMNT may not last a week before some idiot with a gun just shoots one and thats all she wrote.

[slingtheory]

Originally Posted by zodiac brave

yeah. i was gonna say...

they're not going up against teens trained in "old style" martial arts. looks like they're going up against big-@ss commandos with assault gear and swat armor (and if theres any truth to the rumors that there are mutant-blood enhanced soldiers in this flick, then some "super powered" foes as well).

and yeah. GUNS. .

that's kind of my point. they've given the heros a power boost so now they'll probably have to do the same to the antagonists in order for it to measure up. so the foot can't just be a rival clan of ninjas anymore they have to be a band of gun packing commandos chemically or altered soldiers in order to explain away why they wouldn't be dead on arrival. and the shredder can't just be an arrogant ninja master who thinks so highly of his fighting skills that he figures he can make himself invincible by sticking blades to a few strategic places. he's gotta be wearing a full on suit of exo armor complete with extendable machetes on each hand. I know theres people who think its bad ass and cool but it just doesn't work for me. Also I think its disappointing that they apparently thought the turtles needed to be turned up to 11 to be reintroduced to modern audiences and im worried about the precedent it may set.

Originally Posted by zodiac brave

well, this all depends on if the character drama only comes from physical and violent conflict.

yes, its michael bay, blahblahblah, so what character drama is there to speak of blahblahblah...i get that.

and you're right about superman.

but look at a movie like thor, in which the main hero is a GOD. with SUPER COSMIC QUASI MYTHOLOGICAL SPACE POWERS. most of the meaty drama there was family issues, loyalty issues, love and self-discovery. heck, many marvel movie characters are like this.

but, it's all about what the character goes through that GETS them to the physical violence that determines whether the "strength" or "powers" make the character boring.

like i said above. bay. yeah. ok. im not expecting anything that deep, but to say these characters will be boring simply because they're strong and powerful is missing the mark.

they'll be boring or bland (or not...maybe...hopefully) for other reasons.

its not that there's no way they can come up with to introduce some tension into the story it's that you want to see it where you're used to it coming from. the problem I think is that its been the way it is for so long and that's the way people formed in attachment to it. its always been the turtles as underdogs taking on out numbering armies, larger more physically imposing enemies or guys who were just better skilled fighters than they were and watching them rise to the occasion so when you give them a power boost some of the appeal goes out the window. its the same with any character really people came to like them based on who they are and what they can do. if you were to suddenly change the personality or the power set you lose some of what brought people in. with thor for examples his fans like him because of his god status and they expect it to be there going in. you strip that away and make him a mutant from earth who can control lightning or whatever and you're likely going to turn some people off.

[sh3llshocked]

I agree the turtles are bigger this time probably in the 6 foot range compared to 4'9" to 5'1" like previous incarnations. I just hate people equating being 6ft talk to being a "hulk" or huge...if being 6ft tall is the same as a 9ft tall 600lb hulk then somebody is doing funny math, and i know teens easily 6ft tall. And like others I do prefer the smaller look to the turtles but I dont think making them 6ft tall means they still cant be underdogs. Obviously look at shredder. And while shredder seems to be taking flack for having "huge machetes"...seems like most shredders have been over the top...the 2012 TMNT shredder has like 3ft long retractable blades and then a center retractable sword come out of each arm.

[Bry]

Originally Posted by tmntfan4ever

I cannot get it to play here so here is the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUBL7y9FSTg

It should work if you just put the actual video code (in this case, BUBL7y9FSTg) between the [ YOUTUBE ] and [ /YOUTUBE ] tags. I fixed that in the quote above.

And... is it just me here, or are the action sequences in these trailers basically incomprehensible? I know this is cell phone footage in a theatre, but I had to rewatch it several times to try to figure out what the Turtles are doing in the actiony parts. And it was still hard to follow on a basic visual level.

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by UGHShellshocked

I think he does use his Bo staff but like Inspector gadget has many many variations of them.

We've only seen the collapsable bo staff from the trailers to the various posters and concept art to the action figures to the childrens costumes and role playing toys.

Realistically speaking (I know that's not something Michael Bay gives even a hintof a crap about even in non sci fi movies) a collapsable staff shouldn't be as strong as a regular bo.

If he starts off with a wooden bo and upgrades I wouldn't mind too much but that seems unlikely.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by UGHShellshocked

I think he does use his Bo staff but like Inspector gadget has many many variations of them.

What PD Don is using is not a Bo.