Official Episode Discussion S2 #22 "Vengeance is Mine"

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by 909 Turtle Fan

Karai is dumb, she gets rescued just to run right back! Man, girls are so emotional! She can't do any damage to Tigerclaw but she thinks she can take out the Shredder all by herself? I wish she would have been mutated into a turtle instead of a shape shifting Scaletail, worst mutation since Justin. Hope Bebop and Rocksteady appear before the finale cause Fishface and Rahzar are weak sauce and need to go.

She's been raised her whole life to seek vengeance and that as made her just about as unhinged as the Shredder. So when she asks Splinter "Haven't you wanted vengeance?" Splinter answers with "I have come to see that vengeance only brings more sorrow?"

In her mind she feels to do nothing about Shredder's actions was cowardly act and the only way to stop the Shredder was to take him down for good. Where as if she had actually thought about it. Seeking vengeance against the Shredder would have caused more pain to the Hamato Clan, where as the Shredder's own evil would lead to his own ruin.

[Metalwolf]

Originally Posted by 909 Turtle Fan

Karai is dumb, she gets rescued just to run right back! Man, girls are so emotional! She can't do any damage to Tigerclaw but she thinks she can take out the Shredder all by herself? I wish she would have been mutated into a turtle instead of a shape shifting Scaletail, worst mutation since Justin.

She isn't emotional, but she is almost fatally over-confident. There is a difference. Plus I don't like her mutation either, but unfortunately there is nothing we can do for now. Hopefully it turns out to be good for the story.

Originally Posted by 909 Turtle Fan

Hope Bebop and Rocksteady appear before the finale cause Fishface and Rahzar are weak sauce and need to go.

That is what I think will happen when those two new guys appear. Xever and Bradford have been progressively getting nerfed and reduced into almost being morons, with Nick playing up the goofy doggyisms with Bradford and Xever becoming a sort of comedy relief. It's weird because they should be capable of getting better in their fighting (just as much as the Turtles do) but yet they're falling behind more and more. By now, Bradford should be about Tigerclaw's level and Xever should be about maybe Raph's level in skill. I'm guessing the fish mutation sucks for fighting and Bradford is slowly losing his humanity and skills to the mutation.

[WhitefinDolphin]

Originally Posted by mmacauley

Ugh. It's only been a few hours and I'm dying to know what happens next. I just keep re-watching Karai's mutation. It was probably the best executed scene in the show as of now, and the music just made it so **** heartbreaking. :'(

I concur!

I'm dying to know what's going to happen next. As much as I was anticipating Karai's mutation I feeling like we were left hanging, wondering what's going to happen next.

On another note: Has anyone pointed out an animation error in the scene where Karai falls into Splinter's arms? She falls into his arms facing up, but then Splinter in the next frames has to turn her around to face him.

[Midnight Mutant]

Originally Posted by saber16

As for the "Will Splinter blame Leo in some way" thing... I can see it happening, but I really think Leo is the least bit guilty. The blame should go mostly to Shredder... and a little to Splinter. He said it himself, he told her to much to soon. Leo was the one who planned the rescue, the one who told the others Karai went to take on Shredder, and in the end he was the closest to freeing her from the cage.
I can understand Shredder pinning all the blame on Splinter, it's just like he said in the season 1 final, he's to far gone that all he has left to live for is his obsession with Splinter and obsession with revenge. Now, if Splinter does show any anger towards Leo, I hope they don't don't make him unbearable harsh towards him... I mean, given how many times he's brought up Raph's ill temper and carelessness as well as the Shredder's misguided lust for revenge. It's a path to self destruction, and no one knows that better than him.

I think Splinter will blame Shredder and himself more than he will blame Leo. Splinter already admitted that Leo's rescue plan was worth it and after that, Leo didn't really do anything wrong.
Karai was the one that chose to leave. I think Splinter will blame himself for giving her the ammo and not convincing her enough to not seek revenge.
And as for Leo wanting to help and got left behind and later said 'I should have stopped her when I had the chance' Even if that scene had been Leo trying to stop her, Karai has bested him a few times and Splinter can't expect him to suddenly be way better than her or to not fall pray to her deception. (He's super trusting remember)

So, I feel Splinter will change and retract sure, but I feel it would be kind of ooc of him to soley blame Leo, if at all.

[Foombamaroom]

Originally Posted by WhitefinDolphin

I concur!

I'm dying to know what's going to happen next. As much as I was anticipating Karai's mutation I feeling like we were left hanging, wondering what's going to happen next.

On another note: Has anyone pointed out an animation error in the scene where Karai falls into Splinter's arms? She falls into his arms facing up, but then Splinter in the next frames has to turn her around to face him.

I saw that, I just haven't said anything about it because it's not that big of a deal. THAT SCENE THOUGH WAS TERRIBLE. SPLINTER WAS BROKEN BY THAT. I loved that brief scene when Shredder and Splinter were staring each other down, and you could see the fire in Splinter's eyes because Shredder just mutated his daughter. I think in the next few episodes that we're about to see, Splinter's gonna go completely over the edge and he's gonna hit Shredder with everything he's got.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

This could be something different for a change, instead of the usual Leo and Raph get into a verbal fight. And if Leo is getting yelled at by Splinter, something like that could do horrors to a child's mentality. I can definitely see why he would be caught off guard. (I never was a fan that Leo was out training alone and that's how he got caught. Especially with the thought of the Foot out on the hunt for them. It's just so, un Leo like)

Another option would be Donnie and Leo getting the into the argument. Because if they seem to be playing up Leo's relationship with Karai as a juxtaposition of Donnie's relationship with April.

For example: The other Turtles for the most part are supportive of Donnie's feelings for April, but otherwise feel he is deluding himself into believing in something that will never happen

With Karai, none of the Turtles are supportive of Leo's companionship with her, and feel that nothing good would come from it.

April is an outsider, but the Turtles and Splinter have welcomed her into their home and have treated her like she is part of the family.

Karai on the other hand is their adoptive sister and by technicality biological sister. And the Turtles are all hesitant about welcoming her into their lair even after learning she is Splinter's daughter.

In Alien agenda, when Donnie learns about Karai's existence he says "I don't know who she is, but I KNOW I HATE HER!!" and for someone like Donnie to use a word like "Hate" towards someone is not a idle thing.

He was the only one of the Turtles who was visibly angry with Leo about not informing them about Karai. Raph was disappointed and Mikey was more confused as to what transpired. And his statement of "I'm surprised you didn't trust us enough to tell us. Could be interpreted as "I'm surprised you didn't trust *me* enough to tell me about this."

In Enemy of My Enemy Donnie is the one who leads Raph and Mikey away after Karai jumps into the water to save the Shredder. And he's later shown attempting to comfort Leo about the whole ordeal.

Donnie clearly has no trust for Karai and with good reason as Karai has hurt and tried to kill the girl he loves at least twice. However he does trust Leo enough to try and see things from Leo's point of view, or at least tries to believe that maybe Leo could be right about her. And because of that it is going against his better judgement regarding her.

he knows Karai is Splinter's missing daughter, and he knows she should be with her true family. But unlike April and her father, it's questionable as to whether Karai is trust worthy enough to reunite with her true father because she has been raised to think of Splinter has the man who murdered her family.

And now she is a creature that hunts and kills creatures like Splinter. While she was able to keep her mind enough to recognize Splinter as her father. She is other wise an unpredictable monster and her loss has hurt Splinter and their family greatly.

So even though he is able to create retromutagen, he knows a lot more **** will go down before he can create it. So he would have a hard time agreeing with Leo's actions based on faith alone and that would lead to contention between the two calmer brothers.

[OrokuYoshiFilms]

I... freaking....love.... Tiger Claw.

Whenever he's around there's great action and his music is awesome. *DUNNNNNN......DUNNNNNN*

That being said this episode was incredible. At the end was anyone else like "Nooooooooooooo.....how could you...!!!!" and then like "Oh okay well at least there's that..."

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by 909 Turtle Fan

Karai is dumb, she gets rescued just to run right back! Man, girls are so emotional! She can't do any damage to Tigerclaw but she thinks she can take out the Shredder all by herself? I wish she would have been mutated into a turtle instead of a shape shifting Scaletail, worst mutation since Justin. Hope Bebop and Rocksteady appear before the finale cause Fishface and Rahzar are weak sauce and need to go.

Girls are so emotional?? Have you seen Shredder lately?

[WhitefinDolphin]

Originally Posted by mmacauley

I saw that, I just haven't said anything about it because it's not that big of a deal. THAT SCENE THOUGH WAS TERRIBLE. SPLINTER WAS BROKEN BY THAT. I loved that brief scene when Shredder and Splinter were staring each other down, and you could see the fire in Splinter's eyes because Shredder just mutated his daughter. I think in the next few episodes that we're about to see, Splinter's gonna go completely over the edge and he's gonna hit Shredder with everything he's got.

Oh yes, I know. I was just wondering.

Oh yeah, it was absolutely the most emotional episode so far. Yes, I wonder if Splinter is going to seek revenge for this too. Ironically it would be something he was advising Miwa not to do in the first place.

[BubblyShell22]

Whoa. What an episode! I loved everything about it. The rescue went great, and while Splinter was mad at them, he changed his tune when he saw his daughter. The hug between them was sweet and I loved how the plan went off without a hitch. I can see why Karai would want revenge because she knows that Shredder lied to her and killed her mother, so it makes sense she'd want to avenge her mom while Splinter feels it's not right to do something like that. I loved more of the backstory on Saki and Yoshi and now finally understand why Shredder is the way he is. I think Leo did want to go with Karai on his own, but he ended up not doing so. I loved how Karai leaned into him and he looked kind of awkward like, "Okay, I have no idea what's going on right now." It was great. I loved how Splinter went with them to save Karai and also loved Shredder's plan though it totally backfired.

Karai's mutation was awesome, and I love it and how she can shape shift into her human form. I think it was definitely due to what Baxter put in there by accident, and that's a good thing in my book. I know it's not going to be easy for the Turtles from here on out and they'll just have to deal with what's happened.

As for Shredder blaming Splinter, it makes sense as he's the type to not want to take responsibility for his actions and wants to blame everyone else even though it's his fault. I know of people who are like this and can relate to it in some way with having to deal with people like that. He just doesn't want to let go of his hatred and vows to take care of Splinter. I have a feeling the Leo one shot will happen soon and that the reason for it is Karai's mutation and as a way to get back at Splinter.

I don't think Splinter will totally blame Leo, but I can see Leo blaming himself for it and wanting to have some time to himself which leads him to go out alone and thus get attacked.

Overall, an awesome episode. I know we have to wait a month, but I have a feeling the time will fly by as it always does and then we'll have new episodes again.

[MrTMNT2012]

This episode seriously had the potential to be my favourite....oh well, still can't wait for the next few episodes to see that Leo one-shot!

[ObiWanFan4life]

Originally Posted by BubblyShell22

Whoa. What an episode! I loved everything about it. The rescue went great, and while Splinter was mad at them, he changed his tune when he saw his daughter. The hug between them was sweet and I loved how the plan went off without a hitch. I can see why Karai would want revenge because she knows that Shredder lied to her and killed her mother, so it makes sense she'd want to avenge her mom while Splinter feels it's not right to do something like that. I loved more of the backstory on Saki and Yoshi and now finally understand why Shredder is the way he is. I think Leo did want to go with Karai on his own, but he ended up not doing so. I loved how Karai leaned into him and he looked kind of awkward like, "Okay, I have no idea what's going on right now." It was great. I loved how Splinter went with them to save Karai and also loved Shredder's plan though it totally backfired.

Karai's mutation was awesome, and I love it and how she can shape shift into her human form. I think it was definitely due to what Baxter put in there by accident, and that's a good thing in my book. I know it's not going to be easy for the Turtles from here on out and they'll just have to deal with what's happened.

As for Shredder blaming Splinter, it makes sense as he's the type to not want to take responsibility for his actions and wants to blame everyone else even though it's his fault. I know of people who are like this and can relate to it in some way with having to deal with people like that. He just doesn't want to let go of his hatred and vows to take care of Splinter. I have a feeling the Leo one shot will happen soon and that the reason for it is Karai's mutation and as a way to get back at Splinter.

I don't think Splinter will totally blame Leo, but I can see Leo blaming himself for it and wanting to have some time to himself which leads him to go out alone and thus get attacked.

Overall, an awesome episode. I know we have to wait a month, but I have a feeling the time will fly by as it always does and then we'll have new episodes again.

Well said.

[MrTMNT2012]

I will say this though, the voice acting was at an all-time high! I got chills from that exchange between Hoon Lee's Splinter and Kevin's Shredder after Karai got mutated.

[terrorblade]

Mikey's arm getting slashed and Karai spitting venom in Raph's eye is probably a nod to SAINW.

[Powder]

No, it's a nod to the comics, if anything, as in every version Raphael loses an eye at some point.

[Foombamaroom]

Originally Posted by MrTMNT2012

This episode seriously had the potential to be my favourite....oh well, still can't wait for the next few episodes to see that Leo one-shot!

That Leo one-shot has got me so excited. I hope it's the finale. It's always been one of my favorite story arcs, and with the way they did the darkness of this episode, I think this version will be the best one yet. Instead of destroying April's place, they'll probably take out the Turtle lair.

[Shark_Blade]

Absolutely love this episode. Didn't expect Karai's mutation... wait, I kinda did cause Shredder was planning to mutate "someone" in the last-ish episode, but when he said he only planned for Karai as bait, I kinda dismiss that thought.

And Leorai... OMGoshhh *melts* .///.

Originally Posted by Zulithe

Snake Karai kinda reminds me of Jafar.

Originally Posted by kelligrafie

Is no-one going to mention the Leo ass shot?

What you mean this?

Originally Posted by Purple Kraken

Please, tell me if Mutagen Man appears or not.

Pfft haha who cares about that annoying doofus.

They forget about him during The Lonely Mutation of Baxter Stockman (when they only care about demutating Kirby and Splinter back to human form) and they just don't care about him. And not a word about him even now. Seriously he can stay a statue forever, a fitting demise.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by BabyTurtles

Girls are so emotional?? Have you seen Shredder lately?

I know, right? He has permanent PMS.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Shark_Blade

And Leorai... OMGoshhh *melts* .///.

lol LOVED his reaction. Then poor thing knocked out on his face...



So... you think she's gonna eat any citizens of the city or is she gonna cure it's rat problem instead...

[Luckyday]

Almost makes me wish to see Rat King come back to have stand off with Kobrakarai.