Official Episode Discussion S2 #22 "Vengeance is Mine"

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by kelligrafie

They'll probably need a venom sample to cure Raph's eyes/blindness because it's obvious that's where we're going with him.

Now, wasn't there a comic where Raph was blind in one eye? Maybe they're going to do a little nod to that in the future.

So, now, in that one scene, did Leo seriously think Karai was going to kiss him or something?

[Midnight Mutant]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

With as animalistic as it seemed to make her, mentally speaking, imo I'm not even sure she's going to be trustworthy until they are hopefully able to help her. :\ And I was just starting to like her a bit... Should add an interesting element though for a bit.

Curious how she acts now in her human form... really feel there could be more deception added in there. Gains your trust as a human, snaps into snake mode and kills you. Yikes. lol

This would make her pretty interesting. Kind of in a way make her an anti hero. Going after shredder, but not really being with the turtles because of these animalistic instincts are too dangerous and she kinda titters on humanity and inhumanity.

Originally Posted by Zulithe

I have my doubts that she will be retromutated.

Why else would they make it so she can change from human form to snake form? They want to have the best of both worlds.

That was my thought too, or at least it won't happen for a while like it didn't happen with Kirby for a while.

Originally Posted by Powder

in the moment when Snakarai spit venom at Raph's eye, my thought was "OMG YES THEY'RE GONNA GIVE HIM AN EYE PATCH LIKE ALL THE COMIC RAPHAELS", but alas, that was not the case.

I wonder if they will touch on that again, like maybe he starts losing his eyesight or his eyesight in one eye. Maybe a patch will happen eventually??

[Ninjawolf]

This episode was pretty amazing I mean WOW! poor Karai though... Though her mutant form is pretty awesome! But heck from Wrath of Tiger Claw on this Seasons been amazing. So looking forward to the next episodes but this and LoK made my weekend

[TurFlytle]

Originally Posted by Shreddhead

Poop T.N.T...... I want that feature on the toyline

Explosive Poop, the worst combination ever!

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

So, now, in that one scene, did Leo seriously think Karai was going to kiss him or something?

I dunno, but it sure made me laugh my ass off at his reaction. Like a mixture of "omg yes!" and "is this wrong??". hahaha

[Raph's Girl]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

Now, wasn't there a comic where Raph was blind in one eye? Maybe they're going to do a little nod to that in the future.

More than one comic. It's his destiny. He's lost an eye in Archie, Image, and Mirage comics. Plus we got eye patch Raph in the 2k3 series episode Same As It Never Was.

[ranger_scout]

The show has been on a roll lately with its episodes. They really are getting very good and that was quite an ending to today's episode.

[MartiusR]

Originally Posted by Donatello19

I have a theory...Karai may stay mutated until/throughout Season 3 since Playmates said that "Mutated Karai" is coming out in 2015. Unless they're just making her since it's another mutant, I don't know.

I don't pay too much attention about this toy-thing (yes, I know, that it can be source of some plot-related/characters-related information, for example R&B, but still), but I think that probably you're right. I'm betting that there is a possibility, that we won't see anymore Karai/Miwa in this Season, or (more probably) we'll se her only for a while before/during "double" episode at the end. And how long it'll take in 3rd season until unfortunate Splinter's daughter will be cured? Probably we'll wait a loong time for this. Can't say I'm too happy about this mutation

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

This was a really epic episode. I loved how the Splinter and the turtles showed how much they cared for Karai in spite of what she's done. Mikey was even more mature in this episode by not choosing to name Karai. However, I am once again getting tired of yet another character becoming a mutant.

Yeah, generally the "family rejoice" was for sure one of the best parts of this ep.
You know, I didn't care too much about this mutating thing before (although I must admit, that I felt the lack of "human-enemies"), but now I can say, that I share your sentiment. Especially with such crucial character (not to mention that she is one of my favourite characters).

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

I really hope that Don can cure her around the season finale. And hopefully, there won't be so many mutants in season three. Has it been said when the last four episodes will air?

IMO this is the least possible option we can expect. About the remaining episodes - as far as I know, for now we don't have any more informations for now.

Originally Posted by Warhorse

Now, wasn't there a comic where Raph was blind in one eye? Maybe they're going to do a little nod to that in the future.

So, now, in that one scene, did Leo seriously think Karai was going to kiss him or something?

Yeah, I had excactly the same impression (and this expression of Leo's face - priceless! ).

(Hey, I've noticed that someone add to the tags of this thread " kissing cousins?". Guys, you've improved my mood today )

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by mmacauley

I'm thinking the finale is the Leo one-shot and the lair being destroyed.

Which will be a bit sad, because everyone who has gone there, had no problems making themselves at home in it.

[Zulithe]

Raph should not lose an eye in this version. We already have Tiger Claw with one eye, that's plenty for one show!

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

This is the closest we'll get to a mutant female in this series.

Doubtful. I'm expecting this thing to last a good 5 years or more. The second season hasn't even finished yet. Right now, I can totally see Irma turning into a mutant in the future. And more than likely, we will get Mona Lisa.

Originally Posted by Zulithe View Post
Raph should not lose an eye in this version. We already have Tiger Claw with one eye, that's plenty for one show!

I don't think he's going to lose an eye, but he might temporarily lose his vision, which could be a neat wink to both the comics where he had the missing eye, and the 1990 movie when the boys trained with their headbands over their eyes. It would be cool to see him having to fight someone leaning on other senses, and maybe even Leo giving him heads up on where to strike.

[JH24]

Wow, what an episode. I don't know what to say. Everything seemed even at a higher quality than usual. Animation, voice acting (Dominic as Leo, everyone did such an amazing job), the music, writing, etc.

And then the ending. So sad but very well done. For me personally the best episode of season 2 so far, and definitely one of the best in the entire series at this point.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

I dunno, but it sure made me laugh my ass off at his reaction. Like a mixture of "omg yes!" and "is this wrong??". hahaha

In a sense, in this version, it is a bit twisted. After all, the Turtles have Splinter's particular human DNA to thank for their mutation, and he is the father of Karai, so, technically speaking, she is their biological sister in a way. Right.

Originally Posted by Raph's Girl View Post
More than one comic. It's his destiny. He's lost an eye in Archie, Image, and Mirage comics. Plus we got eye patch Raph in the 2k3 series episode Same As It Never Was.

I just hope it's not permanent. I don't really want any of the Turtles to be disfigured. It's probably why I am not a fan of a page for page adaptation of the comics, I'm just not a fan of the comics in general.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

In a sense, in this version, it is a bit twisted. After all, the Turtles have Splinter's particular human DNA to thank for their mutation, and he is the father of Karai, so, technically speaking, she is their biological sister in a way. Right.

Yeah, that's kind of how I've been looking at it/wondering as well. It would make sense if they still had the humanity in their DNA from Splinter - esp given that Spike/Slash turned humanoid as well - and so in some atypical round about way making them biologically connected to Splinter..? o.O Poor Leo, that is so awkward.

[nimajneb]

What an amazing episode - the team really knock it out the park sometimes.
Brilliant narrative, great animation. Leo was 2k3 good in this ep!

[Foombamaroom]

Ugh. It's only been a few hours and I'm dying to know what happens next. I just keep re-watching Karai's mutation. It was probably the best executed scene in the show as of now, and the music just made it so damn heartbreaking. :'(

[Mega Man]

It is a good episode. I wish the ending was different, but I have come to expect

Spoiler:

that things don't always work out for the turtles.

Really cool episode though. I like

Spoiler:

the flash back scene showing Hamato Yoshi and Oroku Saki.

If I was writing this show, here is what would have happened:

Turtles rescue Karai.

Spoiler:

She goes to fight Shredder like she does in the episode.

That fight ends with Karai using technology from Donatello's lab to take over all of the Foot robots. Karai leaves with the Foot robots. A new version of the City at War story arc is set up for season 3, this time with Shredder's Foot Clan battling Karai's Foot Clan.

[909 Turtle Fan]

Karai is dumb, she gets rescued just to run right back! Man, girls are so emotional! She can't do any damage to Tigerclaw but she thinks she can take out the Shredder all by herself? I wish she would have been mutated into a turtle instead of a shape shifting Scaletail, worst mutation since Justin. Hope Bebop and Rocksteady appear before the finale cause Fishface and Rahzar are weak sauce and need to go.

[saber16]

Gotta say, with all the speculation of her turning into a character from one of the past incarnations, the form they stuck with was truly unexpected and surprisingly works for the character and the story.
And hey, she can change back to human (for the most part), so fans who preferred her original design should be happy.

Design wise, I like it, but I think the snake hands are a little out of... ok, does anyone else get a Tim Burton vibe from it? Like, something out of Beetlejuice? If I was designing her, I would keep her hands as... hands, while I would make the snakes come out from her back or her sides. But if she can shape shift, it's possible she may develop a compromise between her two forms.

Overall, I enjoyed this episode. I agree with everyone who feels it was a little rushed, but it worked. Rather than spend the first half of the episode breaking her out, they could have gotten her out of there in "The Legend of Kuro Kabuto", rather than giving us the Karai-bomb. That way, the start of this episode could have focused more on her bonding with her family, we could have seen more preparation for Shredder's mutagen trap, and maybe more time dedicated to Karai's plot to slay the Shredder. If need be, they could have pushed "Plan 10" before these two episodes.

As for the "Will Splinter blame Leo in some way" thing... I can see it happening, but I really think Leo is the least guilty. The blame should go mostly to Shredder... and a little to Splinter. He said it himself, he told her to much to soon. Leo was the one who planned the rescue, the one who told the others Karai went to take on Shredder, and in the end he was the closest to freeing her from the cage.
I can understand Shredder pinning all the blame on Splinter, he's to far gone that all he has left to live for is his obsession with Splinter and revenge. Now, if Splinter does show any anger towards Leo, I hope they don't don't make him unbearably harsh towards him... I mean, given how many times he's brought up Raph's ill temper and carelessness and Shredder's misguided lust for revenge - It's a path to self destruction, and no one knows that better than him.

Oh, and one last thing... that glare he gave Shredder at the end... DAMN.

- One last... last thing - BAXTER'S STILL TALKS Now that would have been a nice option for the poll, "The fly still has a voice!" Seriously, anyone else think that when Baxter showed up?

[Retro-Specs]

Now that was a well-made - and well anticipated episode. We've been waiting so long to see Karai's mutation, ever since almost a year ago when I started this thread: http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=43602
I remember people were pretty adamant about her not becoming a mutant.

But man, were we off about the mutation. I know my wife and I kept thinking she'll be a cat, wolf or fox. A lot of people here were thinking Alopex, too (Ironically, she sort of ended up with Alopex's colours). But a snake? It just seems so unexpected. They kept it secret well.

One thing I'm really hoping is that she won't be mindless in the same way Kirby was. I'd like to see her still speak and act logically and intelligently. Perhaps gather some of the other mutants and make another attempt on Shredder. Also, we want to know the details behind the shape-shifting - is she more subject to instincts in her snake-form? Will her voice and actions be different in human form or would she be able to pass for a normal person when she wants/needs to be? Plus, I want to see her take on Tiger Claw again in snake form - he had the upper hand in their fights in this episode, so she ought to have a chance to even the score.

For the record though, we think she looks like a Pokémon...

One theory we had - and sorry if this has mentioned already - but that mutagen vat must be the same one April was dropped into. Perhaps her DNA contaminated the vat, adding the ability for a mutant to demutate themselves partially at will (I have a hard time seeing Baxter's spilled chemical being the sole cause of Karai's extra ability).

But, since she has the ability to change back, perhaps she will see no need for the retro-mutagen at all. If her human form is "stable" enough, then the snake form could be seen as a super power of sorts. But then we'll likely see a story line about her mutation becoming less and less stable and controllable and such.

Besides the obvious highlights of Karai's mutation, and uniting with Splinter before that, this episode had a lot of other things going for it. Great fight scenes, which are really making Tiger Claw grow on me, too. And the few bits of humour here and there were well placed, too.