Official Episode Discussion S2 #22 "Vengeance is Mine"

[nimajneb]

Well at least we know why playmates have been holding back on that fabled Karai figure.
I have visions of a figure like the King Hiss from the remake MOTU cartoon line.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by RandomtasticFantasy

Spoiler:

-I am not surprised at all that Kairi mutated. Didn't see it being a snake coming. I hate it resorts to her sorta still being a villain though: I really wanted this to signify a next chapter of sorts in her life. Now it's more waiting for her to join the good guys, with the Kirby-Bat arc (though more interesting) possibly thrown in (i.e., them trying to demutate her.). Honestly, I hope she stays mutated and just learns to control it/gets her mind straight: the possibilities are great for her as a mutant. Though admittedly, I hope they stop mutating all the humans. I kinda like the idea of at least one or two normals hanging around and actually being helpful.
-Seeing Kairi interact with the family and hug Splinter made the ending so much sadder. I wanted to hug Spinter so much.
-Shredder needs a box of tissue, a wiffle bat, and one seriously dedicated psychiatrist. Dude has Eric Cartman mental gymnastics levels of 'never-my-fault' syndrome. I love that he has major flaws like this, but it annoys me how crazy one tract minded hate filled fixated he is on Yoshi. In that 'love to be annoyed' way though.
-Donnie better give Leo some pointers, cause Leo may be getting some serious cold shoulder from Splinter after all this. I fell so sorry for him seriously: he was only trying to do what he thought right. All the blame shouldn't be put on him. Wonder if Shredder will target him since he loves shouldering blame on anyone but himself.
-Great impact and emotion in the amount was given but it did feel a tad rushed at the end. Love the scene when she mutated: knew it was coming (Why hang her there, idiot!) but done well where I felt sad/bad. Plus seeing Shredder care was...nice. I didn't think he would and would have done it just to spite Splinter. I'll gladly eat that crow: he at least is decent enough to care about a girl he raised, no matter the reason. Or his unrealistic expectations upon her learning the truth. (It's like he forgot what he did once HE learned the truth about himself and his clan. I'm adding selective amnesia to his on growing list of issues.)
-Keep up the great work of maturing Mikey. Love it.
-Before it went Shen levels of wrong, I liked Shredder's plan. Might have even been interesting for Leo snake for a few episodes. Could have seen Kairi bonding with her family and the others for a while trying to save Leo and deal with her own need for revenge blowing up in her face and costing someone else that she cared about. Like Saki. Oh well. Snakairi works too, lol.

Overall, I liked it. Finding out I have to wait to see what happens next is torture. Fall can't get here soon enough.

All past incarnations of Karai never really had a back story for her, Shes always portrait as Shredder's adopted daughter, but they never explained her back story.

The 2003 series had Karai being an orphan who Utrom Shredder adopted, But her past was unknown.

With the Nick series, They gave Karai a complete back story, So that people can understand her character more and her dilemma.

[Leofan26]

Wouldn't it be be pretty cool if Leo's fear of snakes from the previous series came back here while facing against mutated Karai?

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by Leofan26

Wouldn't it be be pretty cool if Leo's fear of snakes from the previous series came back here while facing against mutated Karai?

That would be a great callback to "Snakes Alive" in the Fred Wolf toon, especially since Nick seemed to retain Raph's dislike of bugs from the 4kids series.

[snake]

Originally Posted by Leofan26

Wouldn't it be be pretty cool if Leo's fear of snakes from the previous series came back here while facing against mutated Karai?

That would be perfect!

[Zulithe]

Originally Posted by Leofan26

Wouldn't it be be pretty cool if Leo's fear of snakes from the previous series came back here while facing against mutated Karai?

Not to be a downer cause that would create a fun dynamic, but I feel like they would have established it before her mutation, otherwise it doesn't have the proper setup. So I think they won't go that way.

Example: Nick Raph with cockroaches.

[Leofan26]

Originally Posted by Zulithe

Not to be a downer cause that would create a fun dynamic, but I feel like they would have established it before her mutation, otherwise it doesn't have the proper setup. So I think they won't go that way.

Example: Nick Raph with cockroaches.

Maybe Karai's mutated form could cause it some how?

It'd be more a dramatic way too.

[Vicky82]

Poor Leo is getting a lot of hate on Tumblr.

People didn't like that Leo tried to save Karai from the cage and it made Shredder go after him and also they hated he left Raph, to go after mutated Karai, err hello! Donnie was there to help him and they didn't want a dangerous, mindless, shapeshifting snake mutant running lose in New York.

[Leofan26]

Originally Posted by Vicky82

Poor Leo is getting a lot of hate on Tumblr.

People didn't like that Leo tried to save Karai from the cage and it made Shredder go after him and also they hated he left Raph, to go after mutated Karai, err hello! Donnie was there to help him and they didn't want a dangerous, mindless, shapeshifting snake mutant running lose in New York.

That's just stupid, did Donnie get a lot of hate for leaving the guy's behind and not listening to Leo's orders back in season one to save April? He put the guy's in danger too, they were trying to save April like Donnie was, it's all the same just with a less awful of an ending.

Karai has a good heart and and was in a worse situation than the others at that time.

[Wretched Reptile]

I know I'm in the minority here, and I'll probably just get flamed for saying as much, but I was pretty disappointed with this episode. Mixed feelings are probably a better way of putting it, because it was very well done for what they were going for, but I simply did not like what they did to Karai. Yes, yes, I knew it was coming. We all pretty much did after the "leak" about the mutated Karai figure. Still, I'd hoped it would turn out to be false, and I was pretty bummed out to see it actually happen.

I just don't like the idea of Karai being a mutant, or as we're seeing here, even "half mutant," in a sense. It just doesn't appeal to me. I've been pretty easy going with all the changes and creative choices the Nick series has implemented, but this one just rubs me the wrong way. Karai's character has quickly grown to become one of my absolute favorites in this series, and her complexity and overall development in this incarnation has been stellar. Now, it's almost like she will only become some kind of Jekyll and Hyde cliché with her newfound "ability," and it just arguably cheapens her story progress IMO.

Again, for what the episode was going for, it was admittedly well executed and delivered an emotional punch that's certainly to be commended, but I just didn't like the endgame outcome whatsoever. Karai didn't need to be, and shouldn't have been mutated. Sorry guys, but I'm just not thrilled with this decision at all.

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by Vicky82

Poor Leo is getting a lot of hate on Tumblr.

People didn't like that Leo tried to save Karai from the cage and it made Shredder go after him and also they hated he left Raph, to go after mutated Karai, err hello! Donnie was there to help him and they didn't want a dangerous, mindless, shapeshifting snake mutant running lose in New York.

Well a..."Raph are you okay?" or "Donnie take care of Raph!" would have been nice....

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by mmacauley

And the Kirby Bat idea was a waste of story and got boring because they didn't do anything with it.

I agree they could have done more with April's dad becoming a bat. However I think it's only purpose was that retromutagen would be made.

When Donnie promises Timothy that he would restore his humanity, he says he'd do that someday. With Kirby it made the need much more urgent hence why Donnie is trying to make the retromutagen all through out the season.

[Vicky82]

Don't flame me for this but I have to ask.

How many people here didn't want Karai mutated and thought she was going to stay human and live with turtles and Splinter in the lair and be a happy family and team up to fight evil.

My answer

No, I just couldn't see Karai living in the lair with Splinter and the turtles, it just didn't seem right.

I knew something bad would happen to Karai, mutation or maybe even death but death would be stupid move as it would be too early and it will anger fans. Mutation is the best move as it gives more emotion to Spinter, the turtles and Shredder and the war will continue between Shredder and Splinter which will make the story different and interesting.

[Foombamaroom]

Originally Posted by Wretched Reptile

I know I'm in the minority here, and I'll probably just get flamed for saying as much, but I was pretty disappointed with this episode. Mixed feelings are probably a better way of putting it, because it was very well done for what they were going for, but I simply did not like what they did to Karai. Yes, yes, I knew it was coming. We all pretty much did after the "leak" about the mutated Karai figure. Still, I'd hoped it would turn out to be false, and I was pretty bummed out to see it actually happen.

I just don't like the idea of Karai being a mutant, or as we're seeing here, even "half mutant," in a sense. It just doesn't appeal to me. I've been pretty easy going with all the changes and creative choices the Nick series has implemented, but this one just rubs me the wrong way. Karai's character has quickly grown to become one of my absolute favorites in this series, and her complexity and overall development in this incarnation has been stellar. Now, it's almost like she will only become some kind of Jekyll and Hyde cliché with her newfound "ability," and it just arguably cheapens her story progress IMO.

Again, for what the episode was going for, it was admittedly well executed and delivered an emotional punch that's certainly to be commended, but I just didn't like the endgame outcome whatsoever. Karai didn't need to be, and shouldn't have been mutated. Sorry guys, but I'm just not thrilled with this decision at all.

Your opinion is your own opinion. If you didn't like it, so what? People on the internet who say that "you're wrong" are just stupid.

[tmnt transformer]

Good Ep.! I really didn't like Karai mutating tho. Although, I really want to see what happens next... will Karai be a useful ally and be able to change between a snake thing(That reminds me a lot of Scale Tail...) and human forms whenever she wants? And will she be able control herself from trying to eat Splinter?

[Ninjinister]

Originally Posted by Vicky82

Poor Leo is getting a lot of hate on Tumblr.

People didn't like that Leo tried to save Karai from the cage and it made Shredder go after him and also they hated he left Raph, to go after mutated Karai, err hello! Donnie was there to help him and they didn't want a dangerous, mindless, shapeshifting snake mutant running lose in New York.

This is why tumblr is the other side of the same coin of 4chan. Ideologically, it's completely different, but they both completely miss every point systematically and have grown to be the cesspools of the internet.

[Toadtrooper]

I was tired last night and didn't put together the more obvious theory.

Spoiler:

Karai is now basically the Purple Dragon represented in the 4Kids series insignia.
The Nick series Purple Dragons have probably been underused because they were intended to be the faction Karai restructures and leads. I'd love for Bebop and Rocksteady to be Purple Dragons rather than Foot Clan. It would give them room for advancement, as opposed to being Shredder Henchman #5 and #6.

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by Toadtrooper

I was tired last night and didn't put together the more obvious theory.

Spoiler:

Karai is now basically the Purple Dragon represented in the 4Kids series insignia.
The Nick series Purple Dragons have probably been underused because they were intended to be the faction Karai restructures and leads. I'd love for Bebop and Rocksteady to be Purple Dragons rather than Foot Clan. It would give them room for advancement, as opposed to being Shredder Henchman #5 and #6.

http://i59.tinypic.com/2i252k8.jpg

that would be awesome!! *_*

[snake]

Originally Posted by Toadtrooper

I was tired last night and didn't put together the more obvious theory.

Spoiler:

Karai is now basically the Purple Dragon represented in the 4Kids series insignia.
The Nick series Purple Dragons have probably been underused because they were intended to be the faction Karai restructures and leads. I'd love for Bebop and Rocksteady to be Purple Dragons rather than Foot Clan. It would give them room for advancement, as opposed to being Shredder Henchman #5 and #6.

http://i59.tinypic.com/2i252k8.jpg

That's actually a good theory.

[Powder]

Yeah, I agree, that would be pretty cool. & Bebop & Rocksteady are more or less HER goons in the IDW book, so I could see that.