Limitations of Motion Capture CGI with live-action

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Bitsy83

Ooooh kay, I don't think I made myself clear. I didn't mean to refer to the ACTORS or the makeup artists. I watch "Face Off" religiously, so I know how dedicated those people are to their craft. And Doug Jones (Abe) has done this for years and he loves it, so I know the actors going into a movie like that know what they're in for.

I was talking about the PRODUCERS. In this case, Bay. We know how addicted he is to CGI and such. I don't know how he feels about makeup and prosthetics, but seeing his past movies, I think it's obvious which he prefers.

No, you were very clear. I just don't feel bad for any of 'em on either side. They all get paid tons of money to do stuff everyone wishes they could do. And all producers really do is gamble other peoples' money while forcing their own arbitrary ideas into the final product. So it's actually hard work once in a while. Ah well. Whatever makes the best possible movie in the end, I say.

[Glados]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

So, basically like Jurassic Park did? That was a blend of CG and animatronics, and it worked beautifully.

It sure did, but the dinosaurs didn't have to talk or emote very much, hence it was a lot easier getting the puppets to "act" appropriately. And in Hellboy - that's also been mentioned - the creatures faces are so similar to human faces in proportions that it was possible for most of the actors own main features and expressions to be used.

The turtles are a bit trickier, in the sense that their facial proportions don't match that of a regular human actor enough for that to work. (But they still are so close that we expect their mouths and other features to respond in a human'ish way) Hence why full puppet-heads were used in the 90's movie. But today's young movie goers are used to pretty fluid CGI animation, so it would not be easy to make it convincing enough today when the characters have to emote very "humanly" and convincing... Puppetry has advanced a bit, but not in very massive leaps since then. I'm 33 and I'm well aware that my own eyes are very fogged by nostalgia when it comes to old school puppetry, but I can see how it would potentially be problematic with a younger audience. Change of times and preferences.

[Monte Williams]

Leo, I offer a hearty "huzzah!", for your points are logical and sound.

I mildly disagree with only one point, which I've bolded below:

Originally Posted by Leo656

That's one of my huge problems with over-reliance on CGI characters; no matter what, they can't get around that "Roger Rabbit Effect" where your eye and brain both know that the characters you're watching simply don't exist in the same space. You get to vastly expand the level of texturing and detail, yet at the same time seriously limit the amount of situations you can believably use the characters in without looking blatantly fake and "video game-y".

We're slowly getting there, but the reason I hated, for example, the CGI Yoda so much was because the wrinkles and shadows on his skin were stuck on the surface. It was comically unconvincing and distracting.

I recently watched a documentary on Netflix covering Ray Harryhausen's career, and even at their most primitive and herky-jerky, his stop-motion models had a weight and a magic that most CGI lacks.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by Leolead

I agree with Sharkblade, animatronics are outdated, and it's time to get over it and move on.

Motion capture is basically used to get those fluid human like movements, without the limitation of using actual Turtle costumes, you also get the actor's full facial expressions, so no dead eyes, no bad syncing and no fake looking skin, also with Mocap you get high quality textures, something you could never do with real costumes

Mocap is here to stay, and it's only going to get better. so either get with it or get left behind. (No offense)

I don't think you know what mo-cap is. Motion capture do only what the name implies. It captures motion. The models must still be HAND animated, as pure mo-cap looks like crap (just watch Beowulf and how often it falls into the uncanny valley, or the Polat Express)

And Textures comes from material maps done in the 3D programs where you model, texture and animate the cgi models, not from mo-cap.

[TMNT is cooler than MOTU]

Animatronics are completely laughable. I mean, look at Hellboy or Pan's Labyrinth. Absolutely horrendous looking.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by TMNT is cooler than MOTU

Animatronics are completely laughable. I mean, look at Hellboy or Pan's Labyrinth. Absolutely horrendous looking.

Well, the Turtles in this movie aren't any better, so what's your point?

[Glados]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

Well, the Turtles in this movie aren't any better, so what's your point?

I think he was being sarcastic...

[Monte Williams]

Originally Posted by Glados

I think he was being sarcastic...

Man I hope so; I was gonna have to go digging for that Malcolm Reynolds I-don't-have-the-words GIF...

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by Glados

I think he was being sarcastic...

Well, you know that saying about relaying sarcasm on the internet.

[Candy Kappa]

If the PD Turtles had a shred of great design like Hellboy and Pan's I'd be ecstatic.

[Monte Williams]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

If the PD Turtles had a shred of great design like Hellboy and Pan's I'd be ecstatic.

You and me both, although again I have warmed up to Donatello's design.

[ScrewtheMirageTMNT]

I don't know why an animatronic was used for the scene in the terminator that looked bad, they could have taken and should have taken the prosthetic path.

[TMNT is cooler than MOTU]

Originally Posted by Glados

I think he was being sarcastic...

Truth.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by ScrewtheMirageTMNT

I don't know why an animatronic was used for the scene in the terminator that looked bad, they could have taken and should have taken the prosthetic path.

What?

Lol. This thread is awesome.

Cgi mumbo-jumbo,"shipping", James Cameron, and colorforms.

I love the drome.

I love colorforms.

Originally Posted by Leo656

Hellboy was such a great f***ing movie. Not the least of which had to do with the fact the characters actually looked good, not like they were filmed separately and stuck over top of the reel like Colorforms.

Somewhere there is a Colorform of the Technodrome. There must be. I must have it.

[Sumac]

CGI is a future. However, best result can be achived by combining CGI and make-up and practical effects.

"Suffering for the art" is not a good idea. Not everyone ready to do this. And it doesn't make them lesser human beings.

[Commenter 42]

Amazed at all the VFX experts here.