Official Episode Discussion S2 #19 "The Wrath of Tiger Claw""

[ssjup81]

So, I decided to watch it again, and I'm even more convinced that the turtles were possibly fighting to kill (or seriously injure) this time around. Who turned on the saw? It wasn't Tigerclaw.

That aside, I'm also convinced that this episode proves that Pizzaface ep was nothing but a whacked out dream since this episode is before the Pizzaface one. Maybe Mikey was recovering from his injuries he received from Tigerclaw and had a crazy dream....but I should probably talk about that there, but it wouldn't surprise me if others felt that way before this ep even aired.

[blindturtle02]

Originally Posted by Mona_Lisa

I know I haven't posted in a very long time but THAT was an awesome episode!
I love the Nick tmnt series but felt that it wasn't as good as it was in the first season anymore, and then this episode changed all that!
Loved Mikey's genus idea to find Casey, but he only new how to find Casey because he knew how to track the pizza delivery guy!!!
I liked how Leo still cares for Kari, but it no longer come across as a crush.
Donny had some funny moments
I wish Raph could have had some more awesome senses. I feel like he gets left out some. We need some awesome Raph fight sense or something. Give the guy something to protect, idk.... I'm ranting!
Glad the next ep. will still somewhat continue this episode!

I agree, ML. I know Pizzaface takes place after this one, but I'm rather glad they chose to air this one right before Legend. Like others have said, I'm hoping Karai doesn't fight alongside the turtles just yet. I like her as a wild card. Hoping she decides to take the battle to the Shredder on her own eventually and have her own little personal vendetta. She may be Splinter's daughter, but I imagine she has allot of Shredder's teachings burned into her brain. I think she's learned how to be vindictive from the very best.

[ssjup81]

That's actually a good idea. Maybe continue to have her fight for Shredder, but really plotting revenge against him. Maybe Shredder will brainwash her somehow (be it by mutating her or by some other means) and she will fool them into thinking they have control over her when they actually don't.

I'm just imagining how Leo will react to something like that.

[blindturtle02]

Oh he'll probably beat himself up over it after Vengeance Is Mine if things go horribly wrong. I wonder if Karai would ever try to start a more honorable version of the Foot in this incarnation. Come to think of it, was Splinter ever a member this time around? I feel that both Shredder's and Splinter's pasts are shrouded in so much mystery in the 2012 series. I like that. The writers can flesh them out over time. Problem is, I want that story now. haha

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by blindturtle02

Oh he'll probably beat himself up over it after Vengeance Is Mine if things go horribly wrong. I wonder if Karai would ever try to start a more honorable version of the Foot in this incarnation. Come to think of it, was Splinter ever a member this time around? I feel that both Shredder's and Splinter's pasts are shrouded in so much mystery in the 2012 series. I like that. The writers can flesh them out over time. Problem is, I want that story now. haha

Well, in one of the Rat King eps (I can't recall if it was his debut ep or the season 2 one), when the Rat King was trying to control Splinter and was trying to get in his head, Splinter mentioned that he'd lost everything from his past and he also said, "my clan"...so I guess he was part of the Foot. Shredder did recognize the symbol on the Shuriken that the turtle left behind in the first episode

Personally, I want to know what Saki does for a living when he's not walking around as a swiss army knife. He has to have a "day job" to afford all that junk he has and to be able to live in plain sight. Not counting the OT and I don't know for 2k3, I'm pretty sure the character had a legit "day job". Saki by day, Shredder by night.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Mona_Lisa

but he only new how to find Casey because he knew how to track the pizza delivery guy!!!

That may be, but it was still something he had already previously figured out on his own, even if originally for superficial reasons, but knowing that and being able to apply as an important tool is awesome.

Heck, it went over my head when he explained it, so good on him. lol

Originally Posted by ssjup81

Who turned on the saw? It wasn't Tigerclaw.

Yeah, that's one thing I'd been wondering. o.O

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by ssjup81

Who turned on the saw? It wasn't Tigerclaw.

Maybe it was Karai, as she shows up towards the end of the fight when TC has Leo pinned down. I think he may have suspected she has or would change sides on his own, or that is something that the Shredder had secretly told him.. So he asks her if she wanted to have the honor killing Leo as a way of having her prove to him where here loyalties resided.

[BubblyShell22]

Originally Posted by blindturtle02

I agree, ML. I know Pizzaface takes place after this one, but I'm rather glad they chose to air this one right before Legend. Like others have said, I'm hoping Karai doesn't fight alongside the turtles just yet. I like her as a wild card. Hoping she decides to take the battle to the Shredder on her own eventually and have her own little personal vendetta. She may be Splinter's daughter, but I imagine she has allot of Shredder's teachings burned into her brain. I think she's learned how to be vindictive from the very best.

You know, I wouldn't be surprised if Karai did go this route and started her own vendetta against him. After all, he lied to her for her whole life and so she has a good reason for wanting revenge. Not sure how this will play out, but I love the idea of it.

[MCLeo28]

Well, I'm not exactly sure she would do that.

Splinter told her to be who she wants to be and choosing the path of revenge definitely goes against that as she will just be like the Shredder who has their own vendetta. That, and there's nothing honorable about acting solely on pure rage and go for revenge. It was made very clear that in the "Wrath of Tiger Claw", Tiger Claw's path to revenge was not even honorable, even if it was because they sent him to another dimension risking one of his eyes in the process. It was also explained thoroughly through a few of the scenes that Karai wanted honor and that seemed to be the most important thing on her mind when she attempted to rescue the Turtles.

I'm confident Karai won't take things into her own hands yet and will decide for herself on what she wants to do. I wouldn't want her just to act like Shredder and go for revenge and end up getting captured in the long run.

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by Galactus

It's not really off topic as it was being discussed already on this thread and it's worth bringing up again because no one has ever been able to counter my points. All I've ever gotten is deflection and animated gifs.

For me it really boiled down to intent. Obviously a lot of fans of the Fred Wolf turtles felt that the show deliberately mischaracterized the 87 characters in order to make them look bad and their own version look better but was really what they set out to do or just how some people felt?

I would argue given all the things I've argued (and I hope they don't need listing again) that the answer is no. Afterall why would they go to all that effort to recreate the 87 characters just to insult them?

That's before considering that the same effort wasn't even made on their own characters and that more than once the OT methods saved the day...or that a lot of the things the chracters said and did in the special were actually from the old show. That's one of tne reasons I'd argue it was a "wrong" intepretation just one that focused on aspects a lot of fans would prefer they avoided.

To be honest I don't see any difference between the portrayal of the turtles in Turtles Forever and in Wormquake that people initially raved about but maybe that worked better as a small scene than stretched out for a whole special.

It is off-topic because apparently it seems to you Galactus, that the aesthetics of animation far outweigh the storytelling depiction of the characters' behavior, since you clearly seem to bring the animation style to forefront of your argument whenever everyone else tries to solely talk about their personalities/behaviors (i.e. dialogue, emotional reactions, viewpoints of the characters). ...And you want to talk about others deflecting on your issues? The irony...

If your logic was applied to the 2K3 Turtles, as long as the 2K3 Turtles visually look, audibly sound, and have references to their previous episodes (i.e. 2K3 Mikey talking about Battle Nexus and an accurate depiction of the lair), it should be no problem for you if some future series exaggerates all of them to a caricature degree of being uptight, overtly somber and dark.

...But since aesthetic animation is your most primary concern (as your history reflects) for the assessment of a "well-intended" depiction of a character, kudos to you in being easily satisfied with the movie then.

[Casey]

Not even gonna read the comments to see what all's been said before:

1. This episode totally makes up for Pizza-Face. It is all the reasons why I fell in love with this show in the first place and more.
2. TMNT 1990 reference a la music was AMAZING yet subtle.
3. That final fight scene and the part in the freezer leading up to it was intense and would NEVER have flown during any other rendition of the turtles. That meat processing room was nasty and horrific. I thought it added some serious grit and necessary tension back into the show. Maybe that's why they allow episodes such as Pizza-face; to ensure people don't remember this show as too dark or unsuitable for kids.
4. "It's almost like we're in another dimension..." made me think maybe that was gonna be revealed at the end. Like Tigerclaw didn't get back to the same place. Maybe in a way he didn't, but they will just never really address it again.

5. Also, I gotta post this again because it's too close not to mention a second time:

Spoiler:

[bigk4062]

I just love the part when all four of the guys and Karai are trying to find a place to lead Tiger Claw and they slide into a line in the tunnel... they look like such a natural fighting team

[Sighphi]

Originally Posted by Casey

5. Also, I gotta post this again because it's too close not to mention a second time:

Spoiler:

http://i.imgur.com/nyCWTV1.jpg

TC is Jango Fett. He even has the jet pack, man.

[Shark_Blade]

Originally Posted by Sighphi

TC is Jango Fett. He even has the jet pack, man.

Yes that's what I thought too. Totally Jango, with blue jet pack and laser gun.

[Casey]

Originally Posted by Sighphi

TC is Jango Fett. He even has the jet pack, man.

Never even noticed that! I mean, he's clearly Star Wars inspired. I'm just saying that a tiger wearing a neckerchief is pretty clearly a nod to Tony. I mostly meant my post as a joke, not that they are literally attempting to join those two characters to make him.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

I'm a bit late in seeing this Episode, so here I am.

What an Episode! This is better than the last 5 episodes IMO. So much happaned is 20 minutes it's ridiculous.

Extremlly good this episode. Any doubts that this series is becoming terrible has been erased (for the time being)

[sdp]

An alright episode, but nothing amazing. Preferred the first Tiger Claw episode. It's just that Karai is such an annoying character in this show and her storyline is so dull and cliche.

[ssjup81]

I was just rewatching this episode and something came to mind. After Murakami's, the four split up to find April and Casey. It was after 11:00 pm. Why wouldn't they just assume Casey was at home, like April? It's strange for an ice rink to be open that late, even if it is New York.

It would be nice to see Casey at home at some point.

[billbot85]

I liked this episode a lot. The showdown with the turtles and Tiger Claw at the end in the meat locker was just awesomeb, with the table saw and all. Really brought the turtles back to their badass routes and skills.

[Sumac]

And we back for more plot. Finally.

Ok, so Tiger Claw is alive...? For what purpose...? Anyway, action scenes were awesome as usual for the episodes where Karai is present.

I was not sure , if she was really believing Turtles in the begining - it was too abrupt. And I was right. And as I predict, after she ended up in the Turtles lair, Splinter has showed her his photos with Tang Shen and everything was right in the world...Not. Thanks for stripy-stripy.

Action scene at the plant was awesome and I felt they again enhanced graphics for this segment, like in the Season 1 finale. I was fully expecting that TG will lose some limbs for the saw, but, alas, it did not happened.

The scene of reunion between Splinter and Karai was emotional and touching.

Overall, awesome episode. I give it 3 ninjas stars out of 3.