10 Ways To Make Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 Not Suck

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by NinjaPug

Are you kidding me? Are you calling Alien, Star Wars and Terminator terrible movies?

I'm talking about movies that had better sequels, not terrible movies.

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by Purse Grabbin Puke

8. Look To The 2003 Series - NO NO NO NO NO. The animation and acting is terrible, not sure what show this person was watching. To me the show is virtually unwatchable.

Haters gonna Hate!!!!!!

I am curious have you ever watched a full season of the season???

[NinjaPug]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

I'm talking about movies that had better sequels, not terrible movies.

Well, your response was to the following post so you made it seem like those movies you listed were awful. The movies you listed had nothing to do with his post.

Originally Posted by Galactus

There are quite a few sequels that are better than the first movie. Sadly I can't think of a good sequel to a truly awful movie.

[Bry]

I honestly can't think of a single example. There are plenty of superior sequels, but in almost all cases the first was at least good, or had a lot of positive qualities to expand on.

It's the building metaphor - without a solid foundation, the next level will collapse. Bad movies pretty much always lead to sequels that are bad or worse.

[Bloodsucker]

You guys are not helping me to feel positive. I made a new year revolution to be optimistic.

Maybe we can just have the benefits of doubt.

[Purse Grabbin Puke]

Originally Posted by Galactus

There are quite a few sequels that are better than the first movie. Sadly I can't think of a good sequel to a truly awful movie.

I'm sure I'll be in the minority on this, but it's my opinion, Captain America 2 is amazing compared to the origin. The first CA is absolutely terrible.

Not only is it unlikely that Platinum Dunes will let go of their heroin like addiction to the superficial aspects of the Fred Wolf show where Shredder was an almost ever-present enemy I'm not sure Bebop and Rocksteady really work without Shredder. Why would they be made into mutants if not by the Foot to get revenge and who would be in charge of the Foot? Hopefully not Eric Sacks.

Not to mention I'd like the movie to at least try and give a good Shredder and TMNT connection - to fix the mess the 2014 movie did with story of course the odds of that are slim to none.

This is all opinion based. In my opinion the origin was fine. Learning from a book after being mutated is much more credible than learning from a small bird cage while a normal rat.

Shredder had a hand in creating them, then he infiltrated their lair, almost killed Splinter, captured and tortured 3 of the Turtles, almost killing them, and then they defeated him and his plan. That to me, is plenty of reasons why they are enemies.

There really wasn't. It's implied relying on knowledge of previous versions but never shown.

This is again, your opinion. I felt the scene on the roof, the scenes of them as kids, them getting in trouble with Splinter, the entire snow scene, the elevator, and rooftop scene all exhibit entertaining brotherly interactions.

YES YES YES YES YES....well maybe.

It was a great show, popular among the fans and if they were going to base it on one animated series this is the one they should go for. They wont but they should.

They shouldn't base it off any one thing. They should take the Nolan brothers approach, really go back and read every single comic, watch every single movie, and tv show, and cherry pick around 10 moments they like that follow the narrative they are creating.

I don't think the integrity of the 2014 movie is worth preserving.

Complete overhauls in sequels never works. I think the new director will surprise everyone, he seems very creative, something Leibesman has never proven.

Unlikely to happen as despite their knowledge that no one really liked it hence their promise of a different direction they're still going to want to sell this credibly as a sequel so sadly I don't think they going to change much.

I know it's shallow but one thing I really would like is if they got rid of the loin cloths and Donatello using mother boards and crotch coverings. It just looks stupid. Then again their over abundance of crap has got to go too.

"No one really liked it" is not true. A lot of people liked it, and a lot of people hated it. One is not more right than the other...

I do hope they change their clothing as well, but only because it would be dumb that they're all wearing the same crap.

I don't have as much of a desire to see turtle crotch as you, so I don't mind them wearing clothes.

I think easy to see action is more important. When the action really got started it was difficult to tell which turtle was which and that's even with Bay's insistence that all the turtles have to look different to help even the stupidest person to tell them apart.

I don't think we'll get more action - at least not involving the turtles. The cgi characters cost too damn much.

Wow...I don't know what to say, because It was clear as day who was who....maybe you just weren't paying attention?

I'm pretty sure the TMNT movie costs a lot less than the Transformers movies, and those have like 45 minute long battle scenes. The first movie is like a test run, now they know how it works, and it should be easier, and better the next time.

It isn't it about time it was represented?

I actually thought it was admirable that they included some attempts at the turtles being stealthy but then quickly devalued when the started tossing around cargo containers.

Not really, E&L named them ninjas as a tongue and cheek shot at what the comic book landscape was at the time. The Foot Clan are the real ninjas. THAT'S who I hope they really overhaul in the sequel. I really think they need to use the fact the turtles are bullet proof to amp up the foot clan so they use more hand to hand combat, instead of guns.

Sadly I don't see a movie involving Rocksteady and Bebop having much of that. That wouldn't be too bad if we'd gotten some actual ninja stuff in this movie.

Certainly not, but it's never been a major plot point with the Turtles, so not really something that's missing. I do wish we got more in the shadows save the day type stuff.

That's not an option really, is it?

I don't know why people expect the focus of the sequel will change to the titular characters when they just flat out can't afford that. People go one about the supposed draw backs of the the rubber suits but that's a huge one with the motion capture.

I think the original rubber suits in '90 are amazing. The only thing that takes you out of the movie is their lips. I've said this before, I wish they would have made rubber suits, and created half of a head, with the face removed and mocapped the actor's faces that way, and only had their facial expressions as cgi.

Yes but Batman Begins nailed the origin. The TMNT 2014 movie badly botched it.

Not really, they just gave you one that you don't like.

I'm on the fence about this because I'd love for them to somehow fix the origin but I can't say I trust them to do it a good way. Even if the sequel is great it's still going to be an elephant in the room that the turtles learned ninjitsu from a book and have no connection to the guy they're fighting,

Again, to me, the origin is over with, it's the last thing I think about when I watch the movie. This is why they need to go with no Shredder. In The Dark Knight, the Joker has no attachments to Batman other than he just wants to battle with him because it's fun. That's what this sequel needs. A psychopath who just wants to watch the city burn.

Pretty much everyone involved that could believably be passed off as a fan fell over themselves to tell us in interviews what huge fans of the franchise they were however I'm not sure I believed any of them.

I understand that researching something called Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles may seem a ridiculous act but not only did they sign on for it so it's implied in their job description but if they were fans surely they wouldn't mind delving into it but all we got was them looking at still pictures.

I also think Leibesman tone at comic con kinda betrayed that he wasn't that interested - to be fair to him I think at that point he's given up trying to justify all the changes to a reluctant audience and just felt like shrugging his shoulders at the whole thing.

They had like 4 minutes at comic con, and there had been a ton of news about Bay wanting re-shoots, and they had released the first trailer and it got bad reviews right off the bat, that first trailer was horrible. They probably did not want to spend too much time there in case they made the bad press even worse.

Originally Posted by Redeemer

Haters gonna Hate!!!!!!

I am curious have you ever watched a full season of the season???

No, unlike people w/ the 2014 movie, I just don't care for 2k3, and I have no interest in watching it, or talking about it. I've tried to watch episodes here and there, but I prefer the Nick toon over all TMNT tv shows. The computer animation allows them to have a ton of good action scenes that actually look cool. And the acting is BEYOND good.

[pennydreadful]

Originally Posted by Purse Grabbin Puke

This is all opinion based. In my opinion the origin was fine. Learning from a book after being mutated is much more credible than learning from a small bird cage while a normal rat.

IMHO, I would've thought that it would be more sensible to learn correct martial arts forms by watching a trained martial artist in front of you every day, rather than reading a book. A book can't really convey the flow, the energy, the disciplines and force behind specific strikes.

Not to mention adding potentially lethal weapons into the mix. If someone walked up to me and said "I'm a trained martial artist who knows how to use katana - I learned it all by studying from a book instead of studying under a master with years of experience", I'd think they were a dangerous idiot.

To me, Splinter is supposed to be a ninja master. And you don't become a master just by reading a book and practicing some moves on your own for a few years before you start teaching others. In the 90s film, Splinter considered Yoshi to be his master - and as such, he learned by watching him. And Yoshi in turn, had learned from his master, to the extent that he was considered one of Japan's finest shadow warriors. If you've learned from one of Japan's finest shadow warriors, then yeah, I'm down with you referring to yourself as a master. If you're someone with a book who is self-taught and has not had a trained instructor... not so much.

Again, this is all opinion, not fact, but just how I feel on the matter.

This:


is not the same as this:



Also, re the above video, may I just say... gawDAMN!

I know we're discussing the movie-verse here, but doesn't Timothy from the 2k12 series sort of prove that the idea of a self-taught martial artist is generally perceived as a silly one?

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Xav

10. No Shredder
9. Brotherly Love
8. Look To The 2003 Series
7. Improved Designs
6. Visible Action
5. Don’t Forget They’re Ninjas
4. Bring Back Casey Jones
3. April Is Not The Star
2. No More Origin
1. Find A Team That Actually Likes The Turtles

I do like all of these but I think it's still overthinking the basics of how not to make a movie suck. Just make sure the movie has good cinematography, good editing and compelling story/characters and it won't suck.

[IndigoErth]

I still just wish they'd simply have gone the "Yoshi turns into Splinter" route. Would have made it a lot easier on their part in terms of trying to make various elements make sense if you simply have this guy mutate and bring with him the ninjutsu, the ability to understand, read, and write two languages and the concept of living a relatively human lifestyle.

Originally Posted by Purse Grabbin Puke

I do hope they change their clothing as well, but only because it would be dumb that they're all wearing the same crap.

I don't have as much of a desire to see turtle crotch as you, so I don't mind them wearing clothes.

LOL Somehow I feel that after seeing this set semi-clothed they might seem a bit too awkwardly naked if they stripped it all off of them. Even if we're used to the Turtles normally not wearing much. (Though I've always kinda liked 'em wearing stuff sometimes, even if I'd have to agree that Donnie and Mikey are a bit busy in that regard.)

Would be willing to bet they do make a "costume change." If for little other reason than toy sales. Gotta sell that new second movie set of figures. Will be surprised if they don't change it. (But keep Leo's NYC button on his strap please. )

[Candy Kappa]

What Penny said, all of it.

Splinter and how he learned martial arts is complete garbage in my opinion. He is a terrible teacher that uses a picture-by-picture book as the foundation of his teachings and techniques. And he almost killed the Turtles when doing iai so close to them they had to duck away from the sword, that is absolutely disgusting and disrespectful against a weapon that is basically an razor blade longer then your arm.

"The rat, did not teach you well." Truer words where not spoken in this movie as Raph was annihilated when he tried to go against Shredder.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Purse Grabbin Puke

8. Look To The 2003 Series - NO NO NO NO NO. The animation and acting is terrible, not sure what show this person was watching. To me the show is virtually unwatchable.

What about the Fred Wolf cartoon? Shouldn't you hate that for the same reasons?

[Commenter 42]

Some people argue because they believe in their argument, while others argue to win.

I wonder if they had made an adaptation of Mirage #1, if the folks who love Bayturtles would have had a problem with it.

I still don't get why they had to change the origin at all. It didn't help the story in any way.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

Some people argue because they believe in their argument, while others argue to win.

I wonder if they had made an adaptation of Mirage #1, if the folks who love Bayturtles would have had a problem with it.

I still don't get why they had to change the origin at all. It didn't help the story in any way.

Well the orginal origin was basically just a riff on Daredevil and there was a story reason for having the new origin, there needed to be a reason why the villains had this mutagen fifteen years ago yet wouldn't use it until now.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Well the orginal origin was basically just a riff on Daredevil and there was a story reason for having the new origin, there needed to be a reason why the villains had this mutagen fifteen years ago yet wouldn't use it until now.

Anyone else care to explain what's wrong with this post? I don't have the energy today.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

I disagree the origin needs to be retold. This story has been retold for a modern audience many different times, in many different mediums.

And yes, I do thik the 'book' thing was totally stupid, but do you know what origin I equally hate just as much?

The mirage one.

I have never, ever, ever been able to swallow an unintelligent rat mimicking Yoshi's moves from a cage, even as a kid watching it in the first movie I thought it was idiotic. And the daredevil rip-off origin with the truck carrying the toxic waste is equally stupid! And don't tell that origin at least isn't a parody/homage, the kid who becomes another certain superhero is right there in Mirage 1#, the TCRI canister bouncing off of his face after he saves the blind man!

Do you know what my favorite origins are?

Nick and IDW.

In both cases it was still an accident, but it stands on it's own, and in both it is very feasible in how Splinter knows martial arts. My point is the current generation already knows the TMNT origin from many sources, and it does not need to be regurgitated yet again. Let's have a new story!

[Gunstar_Red]

I read this list a couple of days ago and I agree 100% with it. (Especially numbers 9, 8, 2, and 1.) Ditto on having the Rat King as the main villain for the next movie. I just wanted to add, for the love of pizza, change the voice actors in the next movie! >_<

I remember someone mentioning that they shouldn't make a sequel, but another reboot. Although I wished they done it the right way the first time, I wouldn't want a reboot. I'm tired of origin stories. Fans already know it and newbies don't need to know it. Newbies just need to get hooked and if they are interested, they can look to the other medias for it. That's a good way of adding extra profit: selling supplemental comics, books, etc related to the movie. ::hint, hint::

I'm just hoping they give more care to the story in the next movie.

[Purse Grabbin Puke]

Originally Posted by pennydreadful

IMHO, I would've thought that it would be more sensible to learn correct martial arts forms by watching a trained martial artist in front of you every day, rather than reading a book. A book can't really convey the flow, the energy, the disciplines and force behind specific strikes.

Not to mention adding potentially lethal weapons into the mix. If someone walked up to me and said "I'm a trained martial artist who knows how to use katana - I learned it all by studying from a book instead of studying under a master with years of experience", I'd think they were a dangerous idiot.

To me, Splinter is supposed to be a ninja master. And you don't become a master just by reading a book and practicing some moves on your own for a few years before you start teaching others. In the 90s film, Splinter considered Yoshi to be his master - and as such, he learned by watching him. And Yoshi in turn, had learned from his master, to the extent that he was considered one of Japan's finest shadow warriors. If you've learned from one of Japan's finest shadow warriors, then yeah, I'm down with you referring to yourself as a master. If you're someone with a book who is self-taught and has not had a trained instructor... not so much.

Again, this is all opinion, not fact, but just how I feel on the matter.

This:
http://i.imgur.com/avn4i2e.jpg?1

is not the same as this:



Also, re the above video, may I just say... gawDAMN!

I know we're discussing the movie-verse here, but doesn't Timothy from the 2k12 series sort of prove that the idea of a self-taught martial artist is generally perceived as a silly one?

So you're telling me, if i watched that girl perform that every day for a few years, I would be able to do that just as good as her? Now, I'm not saying that Splinter reading a book is a good way to learn martial arts, but it's more plausible than watching someone do it, and becoming a master.

Not to mention Splinter is just a rat in the cage. He has no enhancements or mutations. He's just a rat. At least in Ninja Turtles he's mutated, and actually the movie only suggests he was inspired by the book. You could call it lazy screen writing or whatever, but it's not crazy to think he found many ways to learn and teach.

I really think the Fred Wolf origin is the best one, Yoshi is living in the sewers because of his past w/ Saki, and the accident happens, he turns into a humanoid rat, and the turtles are humanoid turtles. This lends credibility to Splinter having the martial arts knowledge and abilities. It also sets up a past with Shredder and Splinter.

The Nick origin is good too, and that series has an incredibly long story line with Saki and Yoshi which is very good, and fulfilling enough to not need it be a constant thread in the movies.

The whole past life stuff from the IDW series is dumb, and although I love the 1990 movie, the Splinter stuff is dumb.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

Anyone else care to explain what's wrong with this post? I don't have the energy today.

I was just pointing out that they thought they had a good reason to change it...

[Bry]

Originally Posted by Purse Grabbin Puke

So you're telling me, if i watched that girl perform that every day for a few years, I would be able to do that just as good as her? Now, I'm not saying that Splinter reading a book is a good way to learn martial arts, but it's more plausible than watching someone do it, and becoming a master.

How is it more plausible? At least that way he'd have a live, physical demonstration to absorb and analyze instead of words and drawings. I'm not saying either way is "realistic", but wouldn't watching someone do something -- observational learning -- be better way to learn than looking at pictures and written instructions?

[The Boston Ninja Turtle]

going with Bry on this one...there are tons of People who learn by watching

Me being one of them...i could read 100 books how to do something, and untill i physically see it done my mind cant make it work..whether its phsycially doing something, a prop or craft or whatever

made school kinda tough