10 Ways To Make Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 Not Suck

[Candy Kappa]

"Monkey see, monkey do"

There was far better ways to change up or improve the Rat Origin then having Splinter finding a Ninjutsu 4 Dummies book.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Sorry, but to me a normal rat learning ninjitsu that way= just as dumb as learning from a book.

Do ANYTHING to make it more believable! Have Hamato Yoshi mutate into Splinter, have Hamato Yoshi be Splinter's past life, have Yoshi's memories pass to splinter somehow via the mutagen, ANYTHING! Just don't try to sell me he learned from a book, and don't try to sell me he became a martial arts master by mimicking his owner's moves from a cage as a rat of normal intelligence.

[Candy Kappa]

I think there are ways to explain how the mutagen imprints muscle memory or knowledge from observance or influence before being mutated.

Some earlier storyboards played with memory imprint as Splinter was wired up while observing martial arts.

It's a way to explain how Splinter not only knows martial arts, but is also fluent in Japanese and English. It could have been tied into the "super-solider" angle they seemed to be working on.

[pennydreadful]

Originally Posted by Purse Grabbin Puke

So you're telling me, if i watched that girl perform that every day for a few years, I would be able to do that just as good as her? Now, I'm not saying that Splinter reading a book is a good way to learn martial arts, but it's more plausible than watching someone do it, and becoming a master.

I think you're misunderstanding what I was trying to convey by including that video.

That girl has clearly been trained by a master - thus proving my point. She could not get to that skill level by reading a book. Either concept requires a certain suspension of disbelief to start with, but one is slightly less difficult to swallow than the other.

Watching and mirroring the movements of a proper martial artist is also going to give you a better idea of how something should look, rather than just looking at a static picture. And while I doubt that you could equal her performance, I believe that you could emulate a number of her moves after having watched her for several years and breaking down the movements into small chunks and practicing them.

Another good example would be learning how to dance. Most people would learn how to do the foxtrot or the tango better by watching another dancer and copying them, than looking at a diagram.

Also, not for nothin, but it's obvious that the only reason Splinter learned martial arts from a book in this movie was because they cut Yoshi out entirely and had to come up with a substitute. It's not like they sat down and talked it over and decided that it was a better idea based on its own merits - it was a handwave that they shoehorned in after deciding that explaining Yoshi & Saki's backstory was somehow too darn hard.

[Purse Grabbin Puke]

Originally Posted by Bry

How is it more plausible? At least that way he'd have a live, physical demonstration to absorb and analyze instead of words and drawings. I'm not saying either way is "realistic", but wouldn't watching someone do something -- observational learning -- be better way to learn than looking at pictures and written instructions?

It's more plausible in the fact that a normal pet rat cannot learn how to be a ninja, but a mutated enhanced humanoid rat involves suspension of disbelief and is more likely to be able to learn from a book.

Originally Posted by The Boston Ninja Turtle

going with Bry on this one...there are tons of People who learn by watching

Me being one of them...i could read 100 books how to do something, and untill i physically see it done my mind cant make it work..whether its phsycially doing something, a prop or craft or whatever

made school kinda tough

Maybe this is where the disconnect is. A lot of people can learn from reading instructions better than watching. So maybe that is why there is a divide. I personally feel like I can learn anything as long as their are instructions. I have a difficult time paying attention to someone showing me things, and would much rather follow written directions.

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

Sorry, but to me a normal rat learning ninjitsu that way= just as dumb as learning from a book.

Do ANYTHING to make it more believable! Have Hamato Yoshi mutate into Splinter, have Hamato Yoshi be Splinter's past life, have Yoshi's memories pass to splinter somehow via the mutagen, ANYTHING! Just don't try to sell me he learned from a book, and don't try to sell me he became a martial arts master by mimicking his owner's moves from a cage as a rat of normal intelligence.

You are so right. I personally don't like the whole reincarnation thing, but they should have had Yoshi be human and maybe even had HIM be the one who saved the turtles and Splinter, then merge him with Splinter. I still think they can fix it all because of the line "I don't remember my life before the lab" and have him start remembering things because of the new dose of mutagen used to save him at the end.

*Side note where did they get that mutagen from? I think I saw Sacks fill up 2 canisters, but April only has one. Did Vern take the other?

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

I think there are ways to explain how the mutagen imprints muscle memory or knowledge from observance or influence before being mutated.

Some earlier storyboards played with memory imprint as Splinter was wired up while observing martial arts.

It's a way to explain how Splinter not only knows martial arts, but is also fluent in Japanese and English. It could have been tied into the "super-solider" angle they seemed to be working on.

This is one of the problems I had with the movie. It seems Splinter knows Japanese and Italian...how....how does he know that? See above, they left it open to explore in the sequel.

Originally Posted by pennydreadful

I think you're misunderstanding what I was trying to convey by including that video.

That girl has clearly been trained by a master - thus proving my point. She could not get to that skill level by reading a book. Either concept requires a certain suspension of disbelief to start with, but one is slightly less difficult to swallow than the other.

Watching and mirroring the movements of a proper martial artist is also going to give you a better idea of how something should look, rather than just looking at a static picture. And while I doubt that you could equal her performance, I believe that you could emulate a number of her moves after having watched her for several years and breaking down the movements into small chunks and practicing them.

Another good example would be learning how to dance. Most people would learn how to do the foxtrot or the tango better by watching another dancer and copying them, than looking at a diagram.

I couldn't learn what that girl did either way. The only way Splinter would be a master is if:
1. He was human and was trained by a sensei
2. Was trained by a sensei after he became mutated.

There is no way by just watching Yoshi do his kata (basically a dance) he would learn the psychology of the martial art. I think it's safe to say the best way to have Splinter's mastery of Martial Arts explained is to have him be Hamato Yoshi first.

Also, my father was a black belt in Karate, and Judo, and he used to make me go to his dojo as a kid, I sat there and watched and watched for HOURS for years...never learned a thing.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by pennydreadful

Also, not for nothin, but it's obvious that the only reason Splinter learned martial arts from a book in this movie was because they cut Yoshi out entirely and had to come up with a substitute. It's not like they sat down and talked it over and decided that it was a better idea based on its own merits - it was a handwave that they shoehorned in after deciding that explaining Yoshi & Saki's backstory was somehow too darn hard.

What boggles my mind is that they went so far as to even storyboard a different origin, in which Splinter has the techniques implanted into his mind while he was a lab rat, which while kinda ridiculous, is a hell of a lot easier to swallow. Yet they opted to give him a Solson's martial arts guide. I can only assume that was changed due to how expensive the CGI got. I hope that's why, anyway, because if a team of people thought a handbook made more sense, then I weep for the future of mankind.

[LeoRaph]

I've always believed the watching and mimicking from a cage isn't that far fetched considering all the other fantastical things that happen in TMNT. I'm sure given that Yoshi was a ninja master and Splinter had seen him train and grow over many years, day after day, hour after hour, minute after minute ...you get the idea, the little things would have also rubbed off unconsciously as well. So the mutagen could not only have increased his intelligence but also unlocked the little things from his memories which increases his abilities more so than what the average person could take in while watching and copying something. Kinda like the movie 'Limitless'. Anyway, that's how I've always taken the mimicking origin.

With the book origin which is just plain dumb and lazy but yeah look who's at the helm, it completely gets rid of a NINJA MASTER to learn from which makes it much less plausible than a rat mimicking a 'ninja master'. A book simply cannot replace that minute by minute in depth unconscious as well as conscious learning over several years. Besides, there is a reason that martial arts isn't taught from a book only, it needs to be practiced and it needs to be physically seen usually under the guidance of a master.

People can gripe all they want about Splinter learning ninjitsu from a cage but that IS the 'Original Origin' and at the end of the day we are talking about a mutagen which requires suspension of belief regardless and.... well learning from a book ONLY is just too far fetched when compared to the other.

[TigerClaw]

As for learning from the book, You could argue that he has photographic reflexes, Which is how Splinter learned in the original origin, By watching someone performing the moves and he just copied them.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

That implies he was actually CAPABLE of mimicking those moves as a NORMAL rat. He wasn't. A normal rat, no matter how "smart" for its species, is not PHYSICALLY capable of mimicking the complex moves of a human performing martial arts moves. For starters, their bodies are not even built the same way, and are bent in the wrong direction in all the wrong places! IE, his back legs are backward from a human's, which would lead to some very awkward balancing issues all on its own, among other problems. So even if he could REMEMBER those moves (doubtful at best) he couldn't do them himself. At least not until after he was mutated.

Then we have the little matter of the TIME required to learn. A (non-mutated) rat lives about five-seven years MAX. He'd have literally had to been watching Yoshi from the day he was born (rats mature after only about two months) and even then, by the time he was considered a "Master", he'd have been long dead! If we're to believe he was watching his Master for YEARS, than by the time he was mutated, he was already incredibly ancient for a rat. Probably no longer physically in any shape to be doing martial arts even AFTER being mutated. THAT is just ridiculous. It stretches plausibility beyond all possibility of belief.

However, there ARE instruction manuals for many martial arts out there- Bruce Lee himself even wrote one, which I have and have used a few times. It takes a GREAT deal of patience to learn from one, but it CAN be done. Not simply from pictures alone, of course, but with careful study of the diagrams, pictures, and the descriptions, it's less difficult to accept than "a rat learns a complex skill by watching a human do something the rat is not physically capable of doing".

Ideally, we should be getting the Splinter AS Yoshi origin- whether OT, Nick, or IDW's version, take your pick. I personally like OT's best. Mirage/2K3 and the 90 movie versions of Splinter's origin are just- silly.

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by Purse Grabbin Puke

I'm sure I'll be in the minority on this, but it's my opinion, Captain America 2 is amazing compared to the origin. The first CA is absolutely terrible.

You're not in a minority for thinking that the Captain America: Winter Soldier is a superior movie as I'm pretty sire a lot of people rank that film pretty high however I do think you're in a minority for think The First Avenger is terrible. What's so bad about it?

This is all opinion based. In my opinion the origin was fine. Learning from a book after being mutated is much more credible than learning from a small bird cage while a normal rat.

I've never had too much of a problem with the original Mirage origin. It's always been my personal head canon that Splinter never really did learn as a normal rat. It was the exposure to the ooze that awakened all the memories of watching Yoshi train. As soon as he gained sentience he was able to understand what he'd seen including Yoshi's murder.

Now that's just me but it's really that far off what Eastman and Laird must have kicking around in the back of the their heads because Laird himself posited the exact same scenario when giving two explanations to how he thought to rationally explain the origin.

It's always going to be a conceit same with the idea that Splinter and the turtles picking up language but there are ways to make it sound somewhat plausible. The origin they went for has few ways they could possibly redeem it - not only is it (relatively speaking) more stupid and as people have pointed out it robs them of their motivation to battle the Foot. If nothing else that's what they needed to keep.

Shredder had a hand in creating them, then he infiltrated their lair, almost killed Splinter, captured and tortured 3 of the Turtles, almost killing them, and then they defeated him and his plan. That to me, is plenty of reasons why they are enemies.

I think you can appreciate that the reason that Shredder is their primary villain is because of their personal connection. Otherwise you could replace him with any kind of character, an alien, a military commander, an evil industrialist....oh wait. Simply being mad at each other for disrupting their plans seem hollow by comparison.

Not to mention that it doesn't a lick of sense. Sure Shredder wants the turtles and Splinter for the mutagen in their blood but why on Earth where the turtles actively hunting the Foot? How did Splinter know so much about Shredder?

The film makers tried to play their conflict and confrontations with the same kind of drama that other versions have yet it doesn't make any sense. Taken with the origin they have there's no reason for these characters to behave the way the way they do except others versions did it.

This is again, your opinion. I felt the scene on the roof, the scenes of them as kids, them getting in trouble with Splinter, the entire snow scene, the elevator, and rooftop scene all exhibit entertaining brotherly interactions.

Mildly entertaining and pretty hollow when you had no real dramatic to back it up.

They shouldn't base it off any one thing. They should take the Nolan brothers approach, really go back and read every single comic, watch every single movie, and tv show, and cherry pick around 10 moments they like that follow the narrative they are creating.

The Nolan brothers did that?

Batman Begins drew heavily from The Man Who Falls, Year One, The Long Halloween and the sequels drew from the similar comic stories in looser ways. I can't think of any non-comic version of Batman they drew from.

Not that using elements pulled from multiple sources is a bad idea but since the sum total of their research is looking at still images do we really trust them to portray these elements correctly or pick the best ones.

For example they gave us Oroku Saki who kinda looks like the version from the Nick show and wears armor that kinda looks like what he wore in the '03 series yet they missed the whole point of why anyone wanted Saki in the movie in the first place.

Likewise the pulled from other versions like The Next Mutation...but no one ever wanted to see the Next Mutation. It's not enough to just look they have to understand.

Complete overhauls in sequels never works. I think the new director will surprise everyone, he seems very creative, something Leibesman has never proven.

What are we basing this on? Earth to Echo?

Of course he could be genuinely creative in his non mainstream work. Same with Evan Daugherty who if you looked at some of his non Hollywood work seemed to be just the right writer for TMNT but then you look at what he does under a major production company with a bunch of cooks with their own ideas and all of a sudden he's not. I highly doubt with one major movie under belt he'd be given much control.

Also a complete wouldn't really be a sequel but certainly I think the general audience would be open to major changes which I speaks to my next point.

"No one really liked it" is not true. A lot of people liked it, and a lot of people hated it. One is not more right than the other...

Obviously I'm generalizing but I don't think by much. The emphasis should be on whether people really liked it.

By that I mean many of the people who enjoyed have openly stated or in some cases only reason they did so was seeing TMNT back in live action in the big screen. That kind of implies that if you took TMNT characters out and replaced them with...oh I dunno Battletoads characters they wouldn't enjoy the movie. So they haven't really liked the movie but continued liking TMNT.

I do hope they change their clothing as well, but only because it would be dumb that they're all wearing the same crap.

I don't have as much of a desire to see turtle crotch as you, so I don't mind them wearing clothes.

In the long list of dumb things them permanently wearing the same clothes is pretty low on the list.

Not sure where you get that removing their various loin cloths would expose their crotches. Their plastron covers that area or it should but does seem like the way they designed it didn't leave much room for that and the various covering was to cover that flaw.

If they must I'd prefer pants ala Michelangelo. Certainly using motherboards as clothing seem to push credibility. As if the thick glasses, proton pack, super strong magic pogo stick weren't enough we have to imply Don is such a nerd he can't cloth himself in anything but technology.

Wow...I don't know what to say, because It was clear as day who was who....maybe you just weren't paying attention?

Well I was paying enough attention to see that when April fainted and Mikey had one more line the actual screen froze or after Raph was flexing the bullets out of his body the frames skipped. Likewise sometimes the action was hard to easily digest.

I'm pretty sure the TMNT movie costs a lot less than the Transformers movies, and those have like 45 minute long battle scenes. The first movie is like a test run, now they know how it works, and it should be easier, and better the next time.

It not only costs less but makes much less money.

The motion capture is the most expensive thing and we're going to have two extra motion capped characters as well as say a decent name to potentially play Casey Jones so that's a potentially big budget increase for a movie which in all likelihood make around the same money.

Isn't the main thing that Dave Green is known for is working on a low budget? Seems convenient for a movie in this position.

Not really, E&L named them ninjas as a tongue and cheek shot at what the comic book landscape was at the time. The Foot Clan are the real ninjas. THAT'S who I hope they really overhaul in the sequel. I really think they need to use the fact the turtles are bullet proof to amp up the foot clan so they use more hand to hand combat, instead of guns.

The turtles are also super strong. There's no way in hell any Foot soldier could stand a chance in hand to hand combat with the Bay turtles.

Certainly not, but it's never been a major plot point with the Turtles, so not really something that's missing. I do wish we got more in the shadows save the day type stuff.

I'd say it was a major point in the comics and even the animated series occasionally had them acting that way. Heck look at the intro all shadowy and visuals reminiscent of the comics. We also saw a fair of actual martial in the previous movies.

Not that this always to be a focus but it really should have a major point in a movie involving their origin and connection with Shredder.

Not really, they just gave you one that you don't like.

Well Batman Begins didn't have anyone coming out if it saying it's the worst Batman movie or worst comic book ever made. TMNT had lots of that so I'd say that quite a lot of people thought it was botched.

Again, to me, the origin is over with, it's the last thing I think about when I watch the movie. This is why they need to go with no Shredder. In The Dark Knight, the Joker has no attachments to Batman other than he just wants to battle with him because it's fun. That's what this sequel needs. A psychopath who just wants to watch the city burn.

Dare I say that might have been a better (if not a compelling) motivation for Shredder in the first movie. He just wants to kill people none of this tricking the government crap with a cure crap.

Also Empire Strikes Back managed to come up with an aspect to the origin after the movie. I'd prefer something a bit more than that but it shows it can be done.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

I have never, ever, ever been able to swallow an unintelligent rat mimicking Yoshi's moves from a cage, even as a kid watching it in the first movie I thought it was idiotic. And the daredevil rip-off origin with the truck carrying the toxic waste is equally stupid! And don't tell that origin at least isn't a parody/homage, the kid who becomes another certain superhero is right there in Mirage 1#, the TCRI canister bouncing off of his face after he saves the blind man!

I'm beginning to think you don't actually get TMNT. This argument is ridiculous.

That is EXACTLY what they were doing. IT WAS A PARODY!!!!!!

Wow. If you're not in on that joke, I wonder what other aspects of TMNT are lost on you.

Have you stopped to consider that, of all animals, selecting a turtle to be a ninja is in itself, a joke?

Sometimes I can't quite figure out what you all are actual fans of. I'm not saying you're not real fans - nothing of the sort, i'm simply pointing out that maybe some of you are a little to literal in your interpretations.

as a side note, and i just know i'll get lambasted for this, it's been proven in some studies that Rats are actually smarter than humans, when it comes to repetitive tasks and strategies. ergo, perhaps a rat would learn martial arts at an increased rate, or in a different way than a human.
could a rat actually physically mimic the moves? Not likely, but could it remember them? Quite possibly.

From a website on the mater:
Rat vs. Pigeon: Rats are more intelligent. But they both outdo humans in some cases: In an experiment designed to test why humans make investment mistakes, researchers proved that rats and pigeons are able to learn an optimal strategy and stick to it—while humans tend to second-guess themselves and show misguided confidence. Rats, however, can go one step further than their feathered friends. In another study where rats where given a choice to opt out of a test if they didn’t know the answer, they did so, “which suggests that rats, like monkeys, but unlike pigeons, may be aware of what they do,” according to the researcher.

[Bry]

Originally Posted by Galactus

I've never had too much of a problem with the original Mirage origin. It's always been my personal head canon that Splinter never really did learn as a normal rat. It was the exposure to the ooze that awakened all the memories of watching Yoshi train. As soon as he gained sentience he was able to understand what he'd seen including Yoshi's murder.

This. Right here. Literally all you need to do.

[Commenter 42]

Yep, that I would be fine with as well, though the daredevil homage should remain. It's the story. They should just tell the damned story.
I don't think it needs to be told in every incarnation, BUT it shouldn't be re-written either.

I don't want to watch a Batman who shot his own parents. I don't want Superman to get his powers from the moon. I don't want Spider-man spinning webs from his butt.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

as a side note, and i just know i'll get lambasted for this, it's been proven in some studies that Rats are actually smarter than humans, when it comes to repetitive tasks and strategies. ergo, perhaps a rat would learn martial arts at an increased rate, or in a different way than a human.
could a rat actually physically mimic the moves? Not likely, but could it remember them? Quite possibly.

From a website on the mater:
Rat vs. Pigeon: Rats are more intelligent. But they both outdo humans in some cases: In an experiment designed to test why humans make investment mistakes, researchers proved that rats and pigeons are able to learn an optimal strategy and stick to it—while humans tend to second-guess themselves and show misguided confidence. Rats, however, can go one step further than their feathered friends. In another study where rats where given a choice to opt out of a test if they didn’t know the answer, they did so, “which suggests that rats, like monkeys, but unlike pigeons, may be aware of what they do,” according to the researcher.

I believe the key word there is "repetitive". Yes, rats are good at doing tasks that are simple and based on reward or lack thereof, but when it comes to complex abstract thinking? They're still just animals. A rat would lack even the motivation to LEARN such a skill, as it serves no purpose to the rat, and has no bearing on its immediate survival or any other basic need. And while a rat may be able to learn an "optimal strategy" for completing a maze or obtaining a treat from various tests, the ability to second guess in itself is what sets humans apart. A rat will simply do as instinct and its senses tell it to, whereas a human can consider consequences of a wrong choice and can then decide accordingly. A rat would just as often make the WRONG choice and end up dead due to lack of foresight. (This is why the old cliché about rats abandoning a sinking ship is ironic- they will still most likely drown because even if they don't go down with the ship, they can't swim well enough to survive long!)

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

I believe the key word there is "repetitive". Yes, rats are good at doing tasks that are simple and based on reward or lack thereof, but when it comes to complex abstract thinking? They're still just animals. A rat would lack even the motivation to LEARN such a skill, as it serves no purpose to the rat, and has no bearing on its immediate survival or any other basic need. And while a rat may be able to learn an "optimal strategy" for completing a maze or obtaining a treat from various tests, the ability to second guess in itself is what sets humans apart. A rat will simply do as instinct and its senses tell it to, whereas a human can consider consequences of a wrong choice and can then decide accordingly. A rat would just as often make the WRONG choice and end up dead due to lack of foresight. (This is why the old cliché about rats abandoning a sinking ship is ironic- they will still most likely drown because even if they don't go down with the ship, they can't swim well enough to survive long!)

Martial arts are not exactly abstract though, wouldn't you agree? The majority of moves are repetitive motions, and people are trained through route practice. In the end, though as a rat he may not have the full awareness of a human, once mutated, he would. Also, as a rat, the only thing he would have possibly learned are the stances and kata's or whatever. He did not need to apply them in a fight.

Also, you might consider that attaining zen is, in part, to try and live in the moment, without foresight or hindsight, and to just be. Perhaps this is why, as a rat, he might be better suited to learning these skills, than say, a human, who is full of doubt, and always second guessing themselves.

[TrickOrTreater]

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

Yep, that I would be fine with as well, though the daredevil homage should remain. It's the story. They should just tell the damned story.
I don't think it needs to be told in every incarnation, BUT it shouldn't be re-written either.

I don't want to watch a Batman who shot his own parents. I don't want Superman to get his powers from the moon. I don't want Spider-man spinning webs from his butt.

Why this is difficult for some folks, I'll never know.

EDIT: "You know what's way more realistic than a rat learning ninjutsu from its master and then MUTATING INTO A HUMANOID RAT? A lab rat that learns Ninjutsu from a book. That's way more realistic and believable. Totes."

[The Boston Ninja Turtle]

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

I'm beginning to think you don't actually get TMNT. This argument is ridiculous.

That is EXACTLY what they were doing. IT WAS A PARODY!!!!!!

Wow. If you're not in on that joke, I wonder what other aspects of TMNT are lost on you.

this makes me wonder too


i also wonder if some people actually read or heard the stories of how TMNT where created...sure a doodle war..but what actually lead to it

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Actually, there IS a lot of abstract thinking involved. Just the reasoning of wanting to learn in the first place, or to put it another way, WHY would he want/need to learn it? He has NO reason to "study" (because that's what he would have to actively be doing, NOT just watching) something so far outside his own personal, immediate sphere of experience and survival skills, because as an animal, it literally has nothing to do with him. There is also the spiritual aspect which most certainly is abstract. Animals do not understand the concept of a soul, and cannot comprehend, let alone LEARN the mind-set of spiritual "enlightenment", patience, stillness, and inner peace that "zen" entails. They simply exist without understanding how or why, and thus have no basis for self-awareness that is so essential to any martial art. And existing "in the moment" is much different from having the self-awareness of BEING in the moment. That's the distinction.

All of this is complex and abstract thought-process that animals don't have. The rat would not consider the potential for using such skills, either. And not just the katas, either, but ALL of the skills involved in ninjitsu, such as weapon use, survival/stealth techniques, various tools used, etc. There are eighteen separate disciplines involved in the art- and he's going to learn all of that from watching his Master do katas repetitively? Don't think so. What about koji-kiri? He would have no understanding of what those signs even mean, much less have reason to learn them.

The problem with that entire concept is right there in your post- the rat doesn't have the AWARENESS to have learned it. Their brain isn't evolved enough for such higher thought processes as learning a complicated skill. Because no matter how you slice it, martial arts are based on complex series of moves that while repetitive on their own, are quite difficult to follow when used in the proper context. This the reason it takes so long to learn- there are dozens of moves, and they can be combined in dozens of ways to meet any given situation. A rat MIGHT be able to memorize a FEW separate moves by seeing them over and over, but it could NOT string them together properly, nor memorize a full combat sequence done at speed.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by The Boston Ninja Turtle

this makes me wonder too


i also wonder if some people actually read or heard the stories of how TMNT where created...sure a doodle war..but what actually lead to it

If only there was some sort of a system, some sort of web of information, that could be used as a tool...

Naw, that would be just crazy talk.

[TrickOrTreater]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Their brain isn't evolved enough for such higher thought processes as learning a complicated skill.

Like, say, maze-solving?