Things you do not want to see return but everyone else is yearning/hype for

[TurtleTitan97]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Yes but he carried out a vendetta against the Nick Turtles, the FW Turtles were just a stepping stone.

That still doesn't explain how you think TigerClaw beating the OT Turtles is seen as being disrespectful.

The whole point of TC's character is he's a tough bounty hunter, of course he's gonna beat the OT Turtles with ease. He was able to do the same with the Nick Turtles.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by TurtleTitan97

That still doesn't explain how you think TigerClaw beating the OT Turtles is seen as being disrespectful.

The whole point of TC's character is he's a tough bounty hunter, of course he's gonna beat the OT Turtles with ease. He was able to do the same with the Nick Turtles.

The Nick Turtles did eventually beat him though. It's also important to remember that the FW Turtles always came out on top, Tiger Claw being able to defeat them and move on to real goal implies the FW Turtles only faced easy foes.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Except they didn't. They were just as important to defeating giant-Utrom Shredder and the upgraded Technodrome as the 2K3 turtles were. Heck, without OT Don's portal stick, they would never have been able to follow him to the T-Prime universe! So yeah, they could face anything the 2K3 TMNT did, and still come out on top- and they proved it. So did the Mirage ones, for that matter- and they were apparently still in issue #1!!

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Except they didn't. They were just as important to defeating giant-Utrom Shredder and the upgraded Technodrome as the 2K3 turtles were. Heck, without OT Don's portal stick, they would never have been able to follow him to the T-Prime universe! So yeah, they could face anything the 2K3 TMNT did, and still come out on top- and they proved it. So did the Mirage ones, for that matter- and they were apparently still in issue #1!!

Well yeah in Turtles Forever they were ultimately proven useful, I agree with that.

But what we're talking about here is if the Nickelodeon cartoon has already made fun of them, which I argue it has.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Except they didn't. They were just as important to defeating giant-Utrom Shredder and the upgraded Technodrome as the 2K3 turtles were. Heck, without OT Don's portal stick, they would never have been able to follow him to the T-Prime universe! So yeah, they could face anything the 2K3 TMNT did, and still come out on top- and they proved it. So did the Mirage ones, for that matter- and they were apparently still in issue #1!!

And the OT was largely written as a slap stick comedy, while the 2K3 was more of an action series. While the OT Turtles did have their serious situations where they all could have potentially died or narrowly avoided having the world destroyed. There were still moments where they would crack jokes or reference the show through a forth wall breaking joke.

The 2k3 series the world was less gag based and they were well aware they were going into serious situations where one if not all of them wouldn't live to see the end of it. 2k3 Leonardo even informs the OT Turtles that the Shredder from their universe was more dangerous then the Shredder they were familiar with.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

And the OT was largely written as a slap stick comedy, while the 2K3 was more of an action series. While the OT Turtles did have their serious situations where they all could have potentially died or narrowly avoided having the world destroyed. There were still moments where they would crack jokes or reference the show through a forth wall breaking joke.

The 2k3 series the world was less gag based. 2k3 Leonardo even informs the OT Turtles that the Shredder from their universe was more dangerous then the Shredder they were familiar with.

Well that's what I'm saying though. While it is true that the FW Turtles weren't quite what we see in Turtles Forever, it's still fairly accurate and the alterations are there to showcase the difference between the two versions, but people act like it's somehow a wild misrepresentation that only exists for mockery.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

True enough, but they certainly could have kept the same tone and feel without going so far OOC for them, OR making it so over-the-top ridiculous! It's a fine line between absurd comedy and flat-out stupidity- and they crossed it badly. As much as some like to point out the comedy and fourth-wall breaking, those moments were usually brief, or done within the context of a larger framework within the story. Mikey beating the oil drum dumped over the head of one of the Crooked Ninja Turtle Gang thugs wasn't just for laughs, it was also a rather pointed jab showing that they COULD be really mean and traumatize enemies when they wanted to. Seriously- that wasn't just humiliating, it would have been downright painful and possibly might've caused deafness or other serious damage! And they did stuff like that all the time, showing that they were just as capable of fighting dirty- in their own comedic fashion- as their foes.

And crying? The OT never cried over a mission- the ONLY time (out of the four seasons I own- and I don't recall having seen it happen in other seasons I've re-watched recently, either) any of them ever cried was Mikey- when the oven broke down and he couldn't make pizza. And Donnie consoled him, but none of the others EVER cried like babies like they all did in TF. Nor were they CONSTANTLY jokey like the movie portrayed them. They DID know how to be serious, contrary to what some seem to believe. Heck, the jokes were usually done to offset the seriousness of a situation, and break tension a bit when they were in a world-ending situation.

And some of the more bizarre plots were no more ridiculous in the context of the universe than the plots used in Nick, or even 2K3. They fit within that universe as elements of a world where almost anything was possible. What surprises me is that Donnie was so far ahead of his time with some of his ideas- like the Turtle-com, which was basically a very early video-capable cell phone! His tracking devices were highly suggestive of modern GPS, and there are plenty of other examples of his tech mirroring real tech we use now. So it wasn't even so much ridiculous as it was progressive in scope. Donnie was probably up on the latest developments in tech and science, and was just using his genius to solve problems that others were still struggling with.

In retrospect, maybe the OT wasn't as goofy or dumb as some fans like to paint it. Maybe it was just more innovative than we knew....

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

In retrospect, maybe the OT wasn't as goofy or dumb as some fans like to paint it. Maybe it was just more innovative than we knew....

The Fred Wolf series featured plots like Leonardo believing himself to be d'Artagnan, cookies that turn turtles into humans, Shredder's fake pizzeria, Peewee Herman Mxyzptlk running around, the easter bunny popping up a few times and Shredder's mom showing up, all obvious comedy episodes tacked on other comedy episodes. Not to mention the fact that it's generally agreed upon that the comedy got more and more cranked up as the series went on.

Sorry but no, it is totally goofy and dumb.

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by neatoman

I have never felt it to be uncalled for the way the Fred Wolf Turtles were potrayed in that movie.

Yes it is somewhat inaccurate to show them as incapable of taking the situation seriously, but the point was that they came from a universe in which they always won, never suffered any losses, any attack could be repelled the day it arose, the ultimate weapon in the universe could be stopped eight times, they faced absurd scenarios all the time like anti-mutagen cookies and they constantly made jokes even in serious situations.

The point was to show a satirical comparison, the Fred Wolf Turtles weren't able to take anything seriously because statistically, why would they? They came out on top 100% of the time! If they were shown to take the situation more seriously it would have been more accurate, so much I agree with but then the satirical comparison between an episodic 80's/90's cartoon and a serialised 00's cartoon would have been lost and then what would the point of the crossover have been? What would a more accurate FW depiction interacting with the 4Kids Turtles have looked like? A slightly goofier but mostly similar team of Turtles show up to help? That's pointless!

As for the voice actors? I guess that sucks but it doesn't really distract from anything.

Spoiler:

Also, based on how they were written in Wormquake, I seriously doubt the Nick crew wouldn't make fun of the FW Turtles.

"Why do we look like... Dorks?"

Spoiler:

Another example, Tiger Claw totally kicked their asses on his way back to the Nickverse.

Spoiler:

And... Well let's face it, the Fred Wolf Turtles are pretty easy to make fun of.

If that's the case, I'm assuming many other action-adventure cartoons of that era which had that same syndicated episodic format, bothered you just as much, right?

Originally Posted by neatoman

Spoiler:

And... Well let's face it, the Fred Wolf Turtles are pretty easy to make fun of.

As with the 4Kids series with its unintentionally hilarious melodrama, and the Nick series with its plot amnesia and Nick April's Mary Sue traits.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Refractive Reflections

If that's the case, I'm assuming many other action-adventure cartoons of that era which had that same syndicated episodic format, bothered you just as much, right?

Well yeah, it's an annoying formula. You are absolutely right, I find many of those shows to be really boring.

Originally Posted by Refractive Reflections

As with the 4Kids series with its unintentionally hilarious melodrama, and the Nick series with its plot amnesia and Nick April's Mary Sue traits.

Those parts are pretty easy to make fun of but niether the 4Kids or the Nick series really has the same amount of problems or problems as big as in the FW series.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

People need to stop this vendetta against Turtles Forever just because of the portrayal of the OT turtles. Seriously, it's not like the OT incarnation is still your favorite anymore. I too felt they could have been handled better but you guys should be happy that 4Kids even included them in anything related to there show. From including nearly all of the other versions of TMNT even the mirage turtles, all of that doesn't matter to you because you are so fixated on the OT turtles treatment. It's not as if Nick hasn't taken shots at the OT as well.

Anyway, I want them to stop bringing in too many elements from the OT. But that crossover with the OT turtles. This show needs to step away from that series.

[Bry]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

In before the 2k14 haters!

I wouldn't say that's something "everyone is yearning for" anyway.

Originally Posted by pennydreadful

I know everyone seems to get really excited any time we get a hint of anything crossover related, but I'm not into it. It was fine in Turtles Forever, I like Turtles Forever just fine... but I don't want to keep seeing it over and over again. Leave it as a one-off thing. I've got zero interest in seeing reoccurring crossover stuff in the Nick series.

I feel this way about the '87 series in particular, really. I mean, I get it... they're the extremely popular nostalgia-friendly versions, but I'm just tired of them almost always getting the spotlight by default. I like them plenty, but they're not the originals and they're not the best. If they have to do a crossover or nod at something from the past, maybe widen the focus a bit.

Originally Posted by neatoman

I have never felt it to be uncalled for the way the Fred Wolf Turtles were potrayed in that movie.

Yes it is somewhat inaccurate to show them as incapable of taking the situation seriously, but the point was that they came from a universe in which they always won, never suffered any losses, any attack could be repelled the day it arose, the ultimate weapon in the universe could be stopped eight times, they faced absurd scenarios all the time like anti-mutagen cookies and they constantly made jokes even in serious situations.

The point was to show a satirical comparison, the Fred Wolf Turtles weren't able to take anything seriously because statistically, why would they? They came out on top 100% of the time! If they were shown to take the situation more seriously it would have been more accurate, so much I agree with but then the satirical comparison between an episodic 80's/90's cartoon and a serialised 00's cartoon would have been lost and then what would the point of the crossover have been? What would a more accurate FW depiction interacting with the 4Kids Turtles have looked like? A slightly goofier but mostly similar team of Turtles show up to help? That's pointless!

As for the voice actors? I guess that sucks but it doesn't really distract from anything.

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Except they didn't. They were just as important to defeating giant-Utrom Shredder and the upgraded Technodrome as the 2K3 turtles were. Heck, without OT Don's portal stick, they would never have been able to follow him to the T-Prime universe! So yeah, they could face anything the 2K3 TMNT did, and still come out on top- and they proved it. So did the Mirage ones, for that matter- and they were apparently still in issue #1!!

Freakin' BINGO. These quotes should be auto-posted every time someone claims Turtles Forever was just the worst thing ever because of how it "disrespected" the '87 Turtles. That's not even true, and it ignores all of the context from their own unique "worlds" and the actual story.

[Metalwolf]

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

People need to stop this vendetta against Turtles Forever just because of the portrayal of the OT turtles. Seriously, it's not like the OT incarnation is still your favorite anymore. I too felt they could have been handled better but you guys should be happy that 4Kids even included them in anything related to there show. From including nearly all of the other versions of TMNT even the mirage turtles, all of that doesn't matter to you because you are so fixated on the OT turtles treatment. It's not as if Nick hasn't taken shots at the OT as well.

I don't think that there is a vendetta against Turtles Forever, since there are quite a few that seem to want a Turtles Forever 2.0. However I do agree that the OT seems to be a major reason for it's 'popularity,' otherwise it would be stuck in the same semi-remembered state that the 2007 movie now finds itself in. Maybe be right in that it is all some folks care about, since I've also yet to hear anyone really talk about the other Turtles that were in it.

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

Anyway, I want them to stop bringing in too many elements from the OT. But that crossover with the OT turtles. This show needs to step away from that series.

I think there are a sizable number of folks on here that want that, but either some aren't posting on here as much as they used to, or (sadly) they might given up on the show. I don't hate the OT myself, even as I protest it's presence on the show, but I'd rather see it done to it's better potential on a show that is a true reboot of it, then try to force a new iteration into a poor imitation of it. Not only that, but Nick is a rare chance to see stuff going off the beaten path, and it would suck if it gets forced into a path that meets more with nostalgia then it is creativity.

[Karai Samurai]

Any other OT mutants. Like seriously. It's enough.

[Bry]

Originally Posted by Karai Samurai

Any other OT mutants. Like seriously. It's enough.

I'll see that and raise: any/many more mutants in general. At this point it feels like there are more mutants and aliens running around than "normal" people, and that really takes away from the Turtles feeling special in their own world, and also takes away from the idea that they're outcasts who have to hide from society. Both pretty essential aspects of the whole concept, IMO.

So basically I don't want a lot of aspects of the OT to return. They've mined more than enough from that iteration.

[Keroscene]

It's gonna happen anyway, but I could probably do without Renet and her Wacky Shenanigans sceptre.

I hope to god this version of April never shows any interest in journalism, because seriously, OT April was the worst journalist ever and also it's a cliched-as-hell thing for a teenage girl to take an interest in. Besides, in 2015, a teenage girl interested in news events would probably run a blog, not a school paper.

Also I'm just generally against re-runs of scenes from previous canon as a rule. There's no need.

Loved Turtles Forever though. It may well have caricatured certain aspects of the OT, but honestly I think a lot of fans are looking at that thing through rose-tinted glasses. It was a flat-out ludicrous show for the majority of the time and that's probably half its appeal.

[ssjup81]

I still don't feel tha the OT had those many mutants, personally. I feel that the 2k12 series trumps that.

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Those parts are pretty easy to make fun of but niether the 4Kids or the Nick series really has the same amount of problems or problems as big as in the FW series.

I would disagree with that though. Considering the format of cartoons at that era and what it was trying to achieve at the time, it's much more forgivable with FW. 4Kids inadvertently becomes a parody of its own prided serious tone at times, when it incorporates melodramatic imagery and situations that comes close to being "soapy" (in an action-adventure context), despite its consistent story writing. Nick tries to portray itself as a serial TV show (which it does to a degree), but neglects its own created plot lines and dramatic tension (aka: "plot amnesia") which deteriorates the quality of its writing, even though it has a more balanced intermediate tone.