Sick Of All These Useless Mutants/Characters

[Metalwolf]

Originally Posted by Powder

Pandering to nostalgia is usually a matter of appeasing crybabies who can't accept change. Mind you, I use the word "pandering", because it suggests people are demanding certain things. Giving people a dose of nostalgia once in a while, is fine. You tickle a persons sentimental sensibilities, they have their warm & fuzzies, life goes on. You put in a nod here, an homage there, great, you have respected the roots & acknowledged the fans.

When the show was still doing little homage bits, I thought it was actually cool as those little moments here and there felt special.

Originally Posted by Powder

But when you start to put these things/themes/whatever into almost every single episode, it's like "Hey guys! Look! Here's another one of those things you vaguely remember from you childhood, please don't stop watching!" which is ridiculous. I'm not saying the Nick series does that on a whole (though season 3 has very much felt that way to me), but there's no denying there's been a fair share of Fred Wolf overkill in all 3 new iterations, & that's a trend I wish would cease immediately.

The bolded part is when I started feeling a dissatisfaction with it. I didn't mind the small homages (in fact I loved them) but there is a point where there is such thing as overkill. I think the producers actually made a big mistake in including a direct OT cameo in Wormquake, because at that point it looked like they were almost saying that at this point they lost confidence in the show. The 'overkill' bit is dead on, because now they aren't even trying to be creative.

Originally Posted by Powder

Nostalgia is always a negative thing when it comes to how it affects the mechanics of a popular series, such as TMNT. It stifles creativity, innovation, new ideas, etc. Take Bebop & Rocksteady, for example. We're getting them because a bunch of casual fans on social networking sites bitched & moaned that they wouldn't give the new show the time of day because it didn't have B&R in it. These are people too closed-minded to give a chance to one of their supposed favorite properties because it wasn't EXACTLY the same as it ever was. Why should those people EVER have their opinions taken into consideration (for any other reason besides the higher ups capitalizing on their viewership)?

With this I 1000% agree. It's why I am protesting so much of the OT inclusions now, because they're killing this show's creativity.

I didn't know there were people doing all of that stuff to get Band R included, wow! There is one point of asking nicely, and there is another when folks start acting like turds about it. I admit I like B and R here, but mainly it's because they aren't the B and R of the OT. They never wanted to become mutants, they feel like they will backstab Shredder at some point, and they hopefully won't be stupid. The only bad thing is they will probably overshadow Xever and Bradford fora time, but I'm hoping that this leads to a rivalry and something interesting.

Originally Posted by Powder

I have no reason to stop watching the show, it's a great show. I would at times prefer they do things a different way, but that doesn't mean I don't like what they do most of the time.

Same here. I do like the show overall, and I can't wait to see where it goes. I think I just wish they'd start pulling form other sources (or come up with their own ideas) more often.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

I guess it just depends on how well the reception of the characters from the OT get but for me, even the likes of Krang and Rocksteady & Bebop have a crazy fan-base like say, Harley Quinn does. I don't know how I feel about canon immigrants in general but this show does it to the point where it's pandering. I admit I was happy to see Hun announced for this series just so the 2k3 can get SOME exposure but when Ciro said the words "we had to please the 2k3 fans somehow", it felt like a huge slap in the face to me since I love that series so much. But I wouldn't want the show to pander to that series either.

The thing about this show is that I feel that it tries to be a bit like the OT without actually being anything like the OT. When it does it's own thing, it works fine for the most part. But to me there's more to the Ninja Turtles franchise than just mutants and nostalgia. If they want to add mutants that's great but don't rely primarily on just those type of aspects of this show. And as far as nostalgia goes, this is suppose to be a new iteration for the new generation, not the old.

I know I sound like a hypocrite when I say this but I get super excited when ever they add an aspect of the Mirage comics into the show but this is also because I would love for this property to be realized as a comic book IP and not a cartoon.

[Coola Yagami]

I do kinda consider this a bit of a remake of the OT. In a way it kinda is, just more modern and kick-ass, cause face it, had they made a straight-up 80's TMNT remake nowadays they would have HAD to make the turtles lurk in the shadows and use actual martial arts and whatnot to still resonate with today's audiences, while still adding pizza and as many 80's characters as they can. Oh wait....

I honestly think the only difference between what we have now and if they did do a straight up 80's remake was that they would have had April as a reporter and Shredder, Bebop, Rocksteady in the Technodrome since day one (or two). Everything else is pretty much to what one would have expected, the sillyness, the pizza, the modern takes on classic characters, so forth. Booyakasha is basically the new cowabunga.

As for what Ciro said... what can I say? Randomly tossing Hun into the mix when they really didn't have to was literally telling the 2K3 people to stfu. At least he was honest about it.

[Creativemind]

Originally Posted by Powder

& those people would be reaching...

Pandering to nostalgia is usually a matter of appeasing crybabies who can't accept change. Mind you, I use the word "pandering", because it suggests people are demanding certain things. Giving people a dose of nostalgia once in a while, is fine. You tickle a persons sentimental sensibilities, they have their warm & fuzzies, life goes on. You put in a nod here, an homage there, great, you have respected the roots & acknowledged the fans. But when you start to put these things/themes/whatever into almost every single episode, it's like "Hey guys! Look! Here's another one of those things you vaguely remember from you childhood, please don't stop watching!" which is ridiculous. I'm not saying the Nick series does that on a whole (though season 3 has very much felt that way to me), but there's no denying there's been a fair share of Fred Wolf overkill in all 3 new iterations, & that's a trend I wish would cease immediately.

Nostalgia is always a negative thing when it comes to how it affects the mechanics of a popular series, such as TMNT. It stifles creativity, innovation, new ideas, etc. Take Bebop & Rocksteady, for example. We're getting them because a bunch of casual fans on social networking sites bitched & moaned that they wouldn't give the new show the time of day because it didn't have B&R in it. These are people too closed-minded to give a chance to one of their supposed favorite properties because it wasn't EXACTLY the same as it ever was. Why should those people EVER have their opinions taken into consideration (for any other reason besides the higher ups capitalizing on their viewership)? Let's say you're an artist. You're passing out flyers for an exhibit you'll be doing soon. Some guy walks up to you yelling (which is what I assume caps lock translates to in reality) "I WOULDNT GO TO THIS GAY BULLSH*T SHOW OF YOURS IF YOU PAID ME. IT LOOKS REALLY STUPID, WOW. WHY DOES THE GUY IN THAT PORTRAIT HAVE GAP TEETH? WTF. DOESN'T EVEN HAVE CRAYON DRAWINGS, MAKE SOME F*CKING CRAYON DRAWINGS. YOU ARE COMPLETELY RUINING MY ABILITY TO ENJOY ALL ART, OLD & NEW." would you spend the following weeks creating portraits in colored wax to please that jerk, or would you instead only humor those who have shown you support? That jerk who loves Crayola, he's the Bebop & Rocksteady fans, & they went ahead & drew him a picture. But he's not the one who waits on baited breath for a new episode, buying the toys, hash-tagging on twitter, oh no. He's off somewhere banging his head against a concrete wall to a new Taylor Swift record, probably.

I have no reason to stop watching the show, it's a great show. I would at times prefer they do things a different way, but that doesn't mean I don't like what they do most of the time. Why did you give up on the 4kids series? Did the lack of pizza & incompetence bother you?

Honestly the only ones I see "bitching and moaning" the most are people like you. Your novel of a post is proof of that. Why did I give up on 4kids? A combination of things really. One big reason was I hated the artwork and felt the turtles were too tall and just not liking their personalities. I couldn't care less about the pizza but some other mutants would have been nice. Utrom shredder was the last straw.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by Creativemind

Honestly the only ones I see "bitching and moaning" the most are people like you. Your novel of a post is proof of that. Why did I give up on 4kids? A combination of things really. One big reason was I hated the artwork and felt the turtles were too tall and just not liking their personalities. I couldn't care less about the pizza but some other mutants would have been nice. Utrom shredder was the last straw.

You thought the Turtles were too tall? Have you not noticed that Donnie in this one is probably the tallest animated TMNT we have ever gotten?

[Powder]

Originally Posted by Creativemind

Honestly the only ones I see "bitching and moaning" the most are people like you. Your novel of a post is proof of that. Why did I give up on 4kids? A combination of things really. One big reason was I hated the artwork and felt the turtles were too tall and just not liking their personalities. I couldn't care less about the pizza but some other mutants would have been nice. Utrom shredder was the last straw.

Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot that that average person in 2015 gets offended when met with a response over 140 characters. & God forbid you give my points some thought. People like me? What kind of people is that, exactly? Those who like their TMNT influence map to be well rounded? The folks I was referring to are outside of this little bubble, they're on social networks, FB "like" pages & that sort of thing. We're also talking about the past, as B&R were confirmed probably well over a year ago, now.

From where I stand, you look like an OT fanboy with a bias. You didn't like the 4kids turtles because they were "too tall"? What the hell kind of complaint is that? They're about the same size as every other iteration (besides the latest film). Not to mention Nick's Donnie is taller than ever, yet that's apparently fine. What's wrong with their personalities, exactly? Leonardo is the straight laced leader, Donatello is the tech wiz, Michelangelo is the humorous goof-off, & Raph makes wise-cracks & gets pissed off. That's... pretty much the same as any other. Not enough mutants? Okay, but there's still a crap-ton of monsters/aliens, which are more or less the exact same thing. They serve the same purpose & are similarly designed. So what's the problem? You dislike the art style & Utrom Shredder concept, alright, that's fair, they just don't tickle your fancy. But I think your other reasons read like "It wasn't enough like the old cartoon".

[Creativemind]

Originally Posted by Powder

Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot that that average person in 2015 gets offended when met with a response over 140 characters. & God forbid you give my points some thought. People like me? What kind of people is that, exactly? Those who like their TMNT influence map to be well rounded? The folks I was referring to are outside of this little bubble, they're on social networks, FB "like" pages & that sort of thing. We're also talking about the past, as B&R were confirmed probably well over a year ago, now.

From where I stand, you look like an OT fanboy with a bias. You didn't like the 4kids turtles because they were "too tall"? What the hell kind of complaint is that? They're about the same size as every other iteration (besides the latest film). Not to mention Nick's Donnie is taller than ever, yet that's apparently fine. What's wrong with their personalities, exactly? Leonardo is the straight laced leader, Donatello is the tech wiz, Michelangelo is the humorous goof-off, & Raph makes wise-cracks & gets pissed off. That's... pretty much the same as any other. Not enough mutants? Okay, but there's still a crap-ton of monsters/aliens, which are more or less the exact same thing. They serve the same purpose & are similarly designed. So what's the problem? You dislike the art style & Utrom Shredder concept, alright, that's fair, they just don't tickle your fancy. But I think your other reasons read like "It wasn't enough like the old cartoon".

The only one getting offended is you it seems. Yes they were too tall and slim even And no the current series Donnie is not taller than the 4kids. Look at the 4kids hight compared to the Nick version or most any other and you will see that the 4kids version has them above average adult height. it's just a preference. I like the idea that heroes don't have to be tall and statuesque. It's one of the reasons I always liked the turtles more than other heroes.

[Powder]

If I'm offended by anything, it's that I make valid points which you choose to ignore. Guess I'll stop wasting time.

[Creativemind]

Originally Posted by Powder

If I'm offended by anything, it's that I make valid points which you choose to ignore. Guess I'll stop wasting time.

If I'm ignoring points you are making its because I either disagree or think you are blowing things out of proportion. Also you calling me a "fanboy" because I enjoy OT content tells me you aren't much for civil discussion anyway. When people resort to name calling or lumping people into groups that's when I start ignoring them. Elitism is an ugly part of any fandom and I refuse to take part in it.

[Powder]

Since when is "fanboy" an insult? Literally every member of this board is a fanboy (regardless of gender ). Talk about blowing things out of proportion...

[CyberCubed]

The only mutants that will probably be cured are Karai, Mutagen Man, and maybe Baxter and Spiderbitez. The others will probably all just disappear or just have a few minor appearances until the end of the show.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

I admit I was happy to see Hun announced for this series just so the 2k3 can get SOME exposure but when Ciro said the words "we had to please the 2k3 fans somehow", it felt like a huge slap in the face to me since I love that series so much.

When did he say that?

[pennydreadful]

Originally Posted by Creativemind

Yes they were too tall and slim even And no the current series Donnie is not taller than the 4kids. Look at the 4kids hight compared to the Nick version or most any other and you will see that the 4kids version has them above average adult height. it's just a preference.

Just weighing in here but I don't know why you think the 4kids Turtles are above average height (or slim, for that matter) - they're shown as around 5 feet tall, shorter than most humans, and clearly stocky in build.











I'm not trying to be rude, but I don't know what show you were watching - you're completely off-base here.

Nickelodeon Donnie is absolutely taller than 4kids Donnie.

The stats card for 2k3 Donnie's figure clearly lists his height as 5'2": http://mutantooze.org/wiki/playmates-2003-donatello/

Donnie's stats on Turtlepedia list his height as 5'8": http://turtlepedia.wikia.com/wiki/Do...2_TV_series%29

[Jester]

I was looking for the model sheets, but those will work too.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Creativemind

the turtles were too tall

How were they tall? They were still pretty damn short.

Spoiler:

As for the Utrom Shredder, I will never fully understand why that's a big deal, the Shredder was a character created to die and was then turned into Doronjo-style villain for a cartoon, the fact that he was turned into an Utrom is an improvement as far as I'm concerned.

Originally Posted by Creativemind

If I'm ignoring points you are making its because I either disagree or think you are blowing things out of proportion. Also you calling me a "fanboy" because I enjoy OT content tells me you aren't much for civil discussion anyway. When people resort to name calling or lumping people into groups that's when I start ignoring them. Elitism is an ugly part of any fandom and I refuse to take part in it.

Yeah but you destroy your own credibility by throwing out invalid criticisms like "These characters who are actually shorter than most other characters in the show are too tall, that's one of the reasons not to watch this cartoon" or "It would have been nice if a show full of monsters had more monsters of a particular variety".

[Netkeeper]

Originally Posted by Creativemind

The only one getting offended is you it seems. Yes they were too tall and slim even And no the current series Donnie is not taller than the 4kids. Look at the 4kids hight compared to the Nick version or most any other and you will see that the 4kids version has them above average adult height. it's just a preference. I like the idea that heroes don't have to be tall and statuesque. It's one of the reasons I always liked the turtles more than other heroes.

This post needs to be framed and put on my wall. It's so ass-backwards that it deserves an award.

[ssjup81]

You know, I don't mind all of the characters, as long as the episodes themselves entertained me in some way or form...but, I will admit, that Fly Baxter, Bebop, and Rocksteady felt like pandering and I'm still only lukewarm to them, but, I do like the take on the characters (minus Baxter). I don't mind them reimagining certain characters and stories. That'll always be the case regardless of the franchise in question if it gets a revival or a reboot or an update.

Personally, I wouldn't write off most of what's happened. Still seems that some things that may seem miniscule or insignificant may show up again at some point, and given that they're going to do the "Take back New York" story, it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of past mutants show up again to fight against the Kraang. If not...man, such a missed opportunity, especially with someone like the Newtralizer. I'm still waiting for him to show up again, given his hatred of the Kraang. Maybe the Cockroach Terminator will return or Pigeon Pete or Sir Malacchi or the Squirrelnoids, etc. I'm hoping the Dream Beavers show up again (I know, not mutants, but I loved them! "Shut up Dave!" ) Ho Chen may show up again somehow too. I just don't write off anything when it comes to this show. I mean, look at Slash & Destroy and Leo at the tea party. She taught him to use his pinky when drinking tea. In Buried Secrets, Leo is drinking his tea with his pinky out. I just found that to be too darn cute!

Oh, I noticed some were talking about the 2k3 series. I personally couldn't get into the 2003 turtles series for a couple of reasons, the main one being that I was in college and didn't want to wake up early for cartoons since usually I stayed up late on Friday nights. I also worked. I did try watching it before, though, when it originally aired when coming across it by chance with my parents. They were like, "Hey, didn't you used to like that turtles stuff?" I tried watching it and then the ep after. For me, the show seemed to be taking itself too seriously and I missed the humor of the original, so I guess I wasn't very fair about it, but I never thought it was bad or anything like that because I'd never sat down and watched the entire series. Maybe I'd feel differently if watching it now. I do promise to give it a fair chance someday, like I finally did this Nick series last year.

[neatoman]

Ok so let's if I can explain my tolerance for what they do bring back.

When I have no problems at all with something they bring back, that's when they bring back something I thought was already good. Let's say Leatherhead or Karai.

When I can ignore my problems it completely, that's when they bring back something I didn't like the way it was originally potrayed but can see the potential in it. Let's say the Mutagen Man or Metalhead.

When I have problems with it but I still understand why they brought it back, when they bring something back that I didn't like and it seems pointless to do so but I know they probably wanted to make use of it anyway. Let's say Bebop and Rocksteady or Stockman-Fly.

And finally when it's just plain meaningless, when they just bring something back when it's vaguely remembered but just has no place at all coming back. Let's say the Punk Frogs. I mean really, the damn Punk Frogs? What was the point? A Napoleon Dynamite joke? Really?

[leogan]

leather head and Karai? i love the incarnations of them in the new series far more than any past ones.

[senpai]

I really like all the mutants and villains the show creates! The Dream Beavers were amazing. They looked like evil Care-Bear beavers with those creepy skulls on their tummies xD Is it just me or is season 3 for some reason incredibly dark!?

But yeah, bring on more mutants and characters! I'm diggin it :>