5 years after Viacom buys the turtles, thoughts?

[Allio]

Originally Posted by sdp

Saban has had PR for 5 years also I think. In the toy department it's been a mixed bag while the normal toylines are as bad as they've been in the past years at least the collectors line they got right. The actual shows took a dive writing wise and became a huge missed opportunity, part of the problem with the current PRs shows is actually Viacom's fault since they've only ordered 20 episodes per year instead of the usual 38 that PRs used to get. But Saban has been learning I think the new show seems to finally be on track, we're finally getting a new movie and we've gotten comics and cool merchandise. I'm optimistic about the future of PRs, also it being the biggest brand Saban has there is no worry that they'll shelf the PRs.

ashame the comics sucks

[rickwj324]

Originally Posted by Powder

To be brief, this sums up my feelings, too. But I'd say it's 2/4, as the toys are a pretty major part of the franchise, too. So I am pleased with the comics & cartoon, but not the toys or film(s).

IDW's original comics are very creative. They're very much in the vein of past material, across different eras. You can tell there is influence being taken from, & homage being paid to, the Archie & Mirage comics, & all 3 TMNT cartoon series, with there being drips & drops of other familiar flavors throughout. I feel that it at times pulls too much from the Fred Wolf/Playmates aesthetic & cast too much, but for the most part, I am less tolerating that & more so growing fond of old things in a new light. In other words, while I may not want X or Y to be a part of the book, they find a way to make me like it. So I'm more forgiving of it now. If nothing else, it can't be argued that IDW puts out a lot of high quality content, consistently. 3 TMNT books a month, if not more, when you count reprints & their many variations. Their host of artists is both broad in size & variation, giving opportunities to artists with very unique styles who may not otherwise have a spotlight position at one of The Big 2. This sort of indie operation is not unlike Mirage, who gave many of today's prominent artists their jump-start in both Mirage's guest era of the late 80's & their Tales Of TMNT Vol. 2 of the 2000's. So while they may be under the reigns of Viacom, it still has some working man's charm to it. Oh, & the crossovers! Whoo! X-files, Cthulu, Ghostbusters, it's all rad & feels right at home. While I'm not completely happy with IDW's treatment of Mirage works (the colored reprints have some pretty grievous errors), I am greatly appreciative of how they push/respect the original comics, there seems to be an effort there to raise awareness of the turtles' roots. Plus there's the fact they employ people like Dooney & Lawson to create new covers for these volumes, helping us to have a steady flow of new art from the awesome gang at Mirage. Not to mention doing the 30th anniversary book featuring new stories in each of the old school comic continuities. So us comic fans have it pretty damn good right now.

Nick's series is an amazingly strong program, I think. Much like IDW, they'll include something I'm unsure of, or against, & revitalize it in just such a way that it clicks perfectly, & makes you wonder how it hadn't been done before. The character designs, are in my opinion, the penultimate. The definitive look of a teenage mutant ninja turtle. They've got a uniform appearance while being different from one another in perfectly subtle ways, with their varying heights, head shapes, & facial features. The build of their limbs is taken from the very first drawing of the TMNT, so the Mirage turtles are immediately called to mind from their general appearance, which is heightened by the brown pads & grimy wraps. Just the same, they have a childlike charm that makes them endearing from the get-go, intertwined with anime & Japanese monster aesthetics, that tickle my geeky sensibilities in every way imaginable. & that goes for all characters on the show, really. April was always incredibly boring to me, aside from being the turtles' link to the human world, she's never offered much personality. But here, she's young, smart, sassy, & very funny. Maybe I'm biased for loving her new look & voice actor, but I think she's the best April to date (though I am not a fan of her psychic abilities). Shredder & Splinter are so perfectly badass & stoic, they've got such presence. I'm into ALL of the characterization, new designs, etc. All of that is infinitely appealing to me. On an art/visual level, the show is bonkers. It's really cinematic with it's laugh out loud humor, high octane martial arts, sci-fi & slasher tributes, & killer soundtrack. It's a giant love letter to pulp/cult media, which is what the TMNT were originally built on. Comics, cartoons, kung-fu movies, heavy metal, etc. It knows where it came from & wears the badge proudly. It's able to be dark & violent without offending censors or coming off as melodramatic, by utilizing psychedelic visuals, non-human cannon fodder, & using surrealistic body horror. It's clever in more ways than one. Unfortunately, there are times where it (by force, I think) relies too heavily on the say-so of Playmates toys, and/or whomever is pushing the Fred Wolf elements. The series had a brand new, fresh, yet very general, 4kids/Mirage/Archie kind of vibe for season 1 & portions of two, but then in season 2 it went into a somewhat formulaic pattern dubbed "Mutant Of The Week" by fans, during which plot would take a backseat to random humor & introducing one-off characters to promote the toyline, not unlike the original cartoon (which was awesomely crossed over into this one & will be again, so I hear). So while the story is wonderful, we don't always get as much of it as we'd like. But we don't know who is ultimately responsible for that. The breaks don't help, either. It seems now, halfway into season 3, that the tone is changing yet again, perhaps returning to a style more similar to that of season 1. Overall, the series focuses a lot on the actual ninja element of the property, which I feel is very important & often not given the attention it deserves. Similarly, they care very much for the heart & family dynamic, which includes celebrating your weirdness, individuality, & knowing that it's not always about blood but who has your back. Good themes to give kids, & important stuff to remind us adults. It's also very weird, the good kind of weird. Never weird for weirdness' sake, rather, it just plain feels right.

The other two aspects of the modern era TMNT, the toyline & new live action film, I cannot speak highly of. I tried to be brief, but I goofed up.

Playmates started off strong with wave 1. Detailed sculpts, plenty of cartoon accuracy, a large assortment of weapons (albeit unpainted), & the scale was decent, relatively. Over time, figures saw less & less paint, less articulation, worse scale, quality control issues, re-used parts, very basic sculpts that at times don't even match up with past figures or plain look cheap, etc. It just all went downhill. They still sometimes make nice sculpts in the basic line, though they're consistently hindered by ill-conceived, cost effective, setbacks. They're even harder to appreciate in-store, because when the toys are revealed to the public, they are fully painted. Production models do not reflect the same level of quality, despite being falsely marketed as such. The adult "collectors" lines were well intended but very poorly executed. They made a lot of promises they did not or could not keep, their promo was at times poorly worded, misrepresenting the products, quality control was at a low (Cross-eyed turtles, Rocksteady's neck unpainted, legs on backwards, etc), directionless articulation made it difficult for figures to hold their weapons, the "Henson" turtles looked nothing like the source material, fans were both ignored & teased, it goes on & on. & those Mirage turtles? Gross. I'd say they look like NECA bootlegs but that'd be a grand insult to NECA bootlegs, because, wow, somehow those are better than factory made collector pieces from a major corporation. In addition to that, Playmates' PR is virtually non-existent, they keep re-hashing concepts that haven't done well in the past, there are tons of variants/role-playing kits shelf-warming, I could go on forever. The struggle is real. On the bright side, Viacom seems to be hip to us now, & has been lending out the license to other toy creators, like Revoltech, so that we can get better pieces for our collections. A big upside.

What did I like about the new film? Well, it had very nice CGI (for the most part), showed the turtles as kids, which was cool, the turtles' voice actors were decent, aaaaaand that's it, I guess. I hate pretty much every single thing about it. Bad writing, bad editing, bad color palettes, bad script, bad plot, gaping plotholes, bad acting, bad cast, bad designs, iffy characterization, bad leaked stuff/re-shoots, unnecessary/terrible changes to lore, a staff who knows little to nothing about the TMNT, obvious product placement, generic score, crummy theme song, it's just all around terrible. No bueno. IDW & Nick's creative teams consist of fans & past turtle veterans, so they're good. The films creative team consists of a bunch of guys who make things go boom for bags of money, so it's bad.

My opinion is my opinion, not here for an argument.

All in all, I think the good outweighs the bad, but the bad is baaaaaaad.

100% agree!! I absolutely love the Nick toon! My favorite out of any turtles series for sure! I also love what IDW has done with the comics. I wasn't a fan of the latest movie, but I can tolerate it I guess (and my son loves it, so there's that).
As for the toys, the first wave was awesome! So much so that I started collecting them and decided to go back and collect the vintage stuff. It's truly a shame that the quality has degraded so much! I love the sculpts for most figures, but the lack of paint has gone beyond the point of ridiculousness!

[rickwj324]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Honestly by the time the IDW comic ends and we can read the run from start to finish it'll probably be viewed as the definitive TMNT universe outside of Mirage.

Definitely! I hope this series has a VERY long run though before that happens.

[mgambino]

I didn't like the movie, but I enjoy the Nick show quite a bit (particularly because it gives me something watch with my son that I can enjoy as much as he does).

I LOVE the IDW comic though. Seriously, I think its the gold standard for how to properly treat licensed material. It's clear that the people working on the series really care about the franchise and aren't treating it like a cash grab.

...and the art. As a comic fan (a serious, hardcore, ultra nerdy comic fan) I can honestly say that I've never encountered such a string of talented artists working on one project.

[Mew]

Like the movie and show! Like most of the merch and toys, and I scored lucky and found a slue of TMNT stuff at the Dollar Tree! So yeah, I love what they have done!

[Duke Nukem]

The 2k12 show is okay, I don't think it quite lives up to OT and is miles behind 2k3, but not terrible at least. I think it's possible that Laird's involvement with the 2k3 show may have quashed a few good ideas before they could become realized just because something about it didn't sit right with him personally. However, without him, I'm sure a ton of terrible ideas would have slipped through. That's pretty much what we're getting with the current show.

After years of expecting a sequel to the first four films, TMNT 2k14 flat out sucks compared to what I imagined we'd get, as has been repeated 70 million times by most of us.

I'm happy with IDW's comics so far, they're not 100% perfect but they're goddamn good. And, we still get whatever comics Laird may or may not write, so it's like the best of both worlds. New Animated Adventures is hit or miss (more miss than hit), but there's definitely been much worse before (Spaced Out, anyone?)

I can't speak on the toys because I know pretty much nothing about anything that came out after the early 90's. I guess it'd be cool if I could find the same enjoyment playing with toys as I did when I was a kid, but I can't imagine ever playing with them as a 30+ guy.

[MrPliggins]

Nick Show: I'm currently at season 2, episode 15. I love all of the throwbacks in the show and there are some good laughs. Season 1 had me kind of bored, season 2 has been more interesting so far. I don't like many of the new character designs. I feel the show is geared more towards kids, which is probably why I have a hard time getting excited about it. Plus, it came after 2k3, which is a near perfect TMNT show IMO. This is the first TMNT show I don't feel the urge to watch every week.

IDW comic: I'm currently at issue 28. I like what I've read so far. Some characters seem thrown in just for the sake of using them, but that's ok. I hope this comic goes on for a long time. I think there are a bit too many variants.

Toys: I don't collect them. But I couldn't help but notice how awful the Mirage Turtles were. The very first wave of toys looked pretty cool, though.

Merchandising: I haven't seen this much merchandising everywhere since the '90s heyday. It's nice to see, and it's really establishing the Turtles as a lasting presence. The Turtles have now spanned generations. I don't think they'll disappear any time soon. And if they do, they'll be back.

Movie: It was adequate. It was good, mindless fun. I was expecting it to be much worse from the reviews. I'm not buying it, but I'll see the sequel.

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Couple of reasons.

I find the TELL Storytelling, as opposed to say SHOW storytelling, to be laborsome and unfulfilling to read. Also the pacing always seems to be break-neck, and there's very little time for the characters to regroup.

'Ay, yo! There's a concise version of why my interactions with the IDW series are so spotty. The trend so far has been that about two or three times a year, I'll feel compelled to read it again and order a few trades; wind up kind of liking the ideas but be vaguely disappointed in the execution. I keep up with the series' development by way of TMNT Entity just to curb my curiosity, but, yeah ... plenty of times I've decided I was done with it wholesale. I'll keep checking it out, but damned if I know why. I guess I like it enough to want it to be better. The ideas are all there.

The Nick show is largely excellent, but I'm not the target audience for it. Like the comic, I'll check it out in spurts and generally enjoy myself when I catch up, but ... at the end of the day it's a kids' show, and glibly entertained is the most I can be by it (and impressed, on a technical level, but again that only goes so far).

The Viacom sale has meant getting available reprints of Mirage material, though, even if the methods for it haven't always been the best, and that's currently currying the most favor with me. The double-edged sword of being rescued from obscurity in that way is that future iterations of the franchise will continue onward in a kind of neutered way, though. Do I really care as long as the material I actually enjoy is kept available?

Not really? Maybe? Sure?

Originally Posted by MrPliggins

Some characters seem thrown in just for the sake of using them, but that's ok.

I think it's actually wildly distracting, but since I can't read the series in an alternate universe in which I'm not aware of who's a pre-existing character and who's not, I don't know if it's an entirely valid complaint. I'd be pretty interested in reading blow-by-blow reactions from someone with little to no familiarity with the franchise.

[CyberCubed]

I notice a lot of people saying, "The Nick show is great, but its for kids" like its some kind of aside. I'm kinda baffled by that, since both the original cartoon and 4kids series was for kids too, and most of you watched and enjoyed those.

Sure we're all much older now than when the original toon and 4kids series originally aired (and as such we're less easily impressed now than back then), but the Nick show has smart and clever writing and great action scenes. Its far from perfect but its wholly entertaining.

Do you guys feel you're too old for cartoons or something? I'm close to being 30 and I don't feel like I have to stop liking kids shows if they're entertaining.

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I notice a lot of people saying, "The Nick show is great, but its for kids" like its some kind of aside. I'm kinda baffled by that, since both the original cartoon and 4kids series was for kids too, and most of you watched and enjoyed those.

I did, when I was also a kid (Fred Wolf show) or closer to (4Kids, which also had the novelty of being a closer Mirage adaptation, which pulled a lot of weight with me at the time). The Nick show is probably a better production than either one and, like I said, I enjoy it (certainly don't think I'm too old to enjoy cartoons; Dragon Ball's still the bee's knees), but it's a novelty. It's really good for what it it is, but it's an episodic kid's cartoon, and even in that, as sleek as it is, not the most engaging I've seen. All respect due (and it deserves a lot), I wouldn't be checking in with it if I weren't interested in the franchise as a whole.

[Gunstar_Red]

I don't know about long term, but I do love the revival. I get to collect new comics and old reprints in volumes, plenty of new cute plushes and trinkets, and new clothing.

I love the new comics and pretty okay overall with the new show. I was very disappointed with the 2014 movie, but sorta hopeful they fix a lot in the next movie.

I was one of those people who were certain the franchise was doomed when it was sold 5 years ago. But I didn't think Viacom would be lucky enough to have hired quite a few people who seem to care about TMNT to work on it (minus the movie). I think there's a lot of executive meddling with some things, but I'm happy that from what I hear who works on the cartoon and comics, they are able to do almost whatever they want.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Do you guys feel you're too old for cartoons or something? I'm close to being 30 and I don't feel like I have to stop liking kids shows if they're entertaining.

That's how I feel. I'm 28. If it's enjoyable to watch, I don't care if it's a cartoon. Shell, I have a current TMNT lunchbox and thermos I take to work everyday. If there's a care about what other people think, I don't have any.

[pennydreadful]

I have a Nick Turtles lunchbox that I take to work every day as well.

[Gunstar_Red]

Originally Posted by pennydreadful

I have a Nick Turtles lunchbox that I take to work every day as well.

Haha! Sweet! We are definitely the "cool kids" at our workplaces.

[plastroncafe]

I'm too old to waste my time on bad cartoons, and money on bad products made in their image.

Quality stuff knows no age, regardless of what the marketing suits try to tell you.

[TurtleTitan97]

Outside of the new movie, I enjoy the rest. Still enjoying the Nick show, and from what I've read of the IDW comics, those are pretty good too.

[Gunstar_Red]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

I'm too old to waste my time on bad cartoons, and money on bad products made in their image.

Quality stuff knows no age, regardless of what the marketing suits try to tell you.

That kinda makes me laugh. Each version has their really cool and well made products and a ton of crap that should have been dead on the cutting room floor. Don't pretend that previous version(s) were/was the best and had no faults.

For example, the OT is guilty for poor quality control for the show (which was not uncommon for a lot of cartons at the time) and cash grab toys. But hey, I don't bad mouth it and I still enjoy it for the campy cheesiness fluff. (That show is my go-to when I need something playing in the background when I'm home alone.) I still think their designs are so easily marketable by being so simple.

[plastroncafe]

the question was whether not I thought I was too old to watch cartoons, not about whether or not I think the new cartoon is bad.

nowhere in my previous statement do I pass any judgement on previous incarnation of the cartoon.

[rickwj324]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I'm close to being 30 and I don't feel like I have to stop liking kids shows if they're entertaining.

Dude...I'll be 45 this month and I absolutely love the Nick toon. I'm reading/watching/buying more TMNT stuff now than ever.

[Gunstar_Red]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

the question was whether not I thought I was too old to watch cartoons, not about whether or not I think the new cartoon is bad.

nowhere in my previous statement do I pass any judgement on previous incarnation of the cartoon.

It was vague to what you were replying to, the topic or Cube. Sorry for biting your head. ^^;

[neatoman]

So I think we might need a few more years to really get a feeling of what Viacom likes to do with TMNT. We have had one major comic, one movie and one cartoon, maybe when there's a bit more of those things?


As for some predictions.

IDW will probably continue to publish TMNT comics for a long time to come, at least until 2021 I'd wager.

The movie series will get at least one more movie, probably more but there will be an eventual reboot. Let's say it reboots arounds... 2025-2030?

The Nicktoon seems like it could end at season 4, that would be around 2016-2017. Another one might hit one to three years later, 2017-2020.