Trying to Scientifically define Mutagen's effects

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by Tarris Vaal

A possibility that not all the turtles are actually descended from the same human 'parent' - as we only have the mental flashback image of the Turtle's origin to work with, and Splinter doesn't physically touch them during that sequence, we can only presume that Splinter handled them earlier and thereby left DNA traces to mutate with. Its possible that one or more of the Turtles may actually be descended from the pet store attendant...

So this attendant might have blue eyes, gap tooth, freckles, and possibly a stout body type?

[Tarris Vaal]

Given that the Japanese themselves are notoriously homogeneous (they have very similar genetic nature), it would make sense that anyone descended from Splinter would have black hair (not really an issue here), but importantly Brown eyes.

Donnie and Leo do, but not Raph or Mikey. Now Green eyes are extremely unlikely but I'd be willing to say its just about possible - particularly given that the primary sources are Turtle rather than human DNA - though most turtle species have black eyes.

Mikey's blue eyes are... highly unusual and certainly not a trait inherited from Splinter. Raph's are also very unlikely to have come from Hamato Yoshi (though in fairness I am assuming Hamato Yoshi is himself 100% Japanese genetic heritage)

An interesting point to note anyway - though it has little to do with the mutagen, it might make for a worthy point of discussion elsewhere.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Tarris Vaal

Given that the Japanese themselves are notoriously homogeneous (they have very similar genetic nature), it would make sense that anyone descended from Splinter would have black hair (not really an issue here), but importantly Brown eyes.

Donnie and Leo do, but not Raph or Mikey. Now Green eyes are extremely unlikely but I'd be willing to say its just about possible - particularly given that the primary sources are Turtle rather than human DNA - though most turtle species have black eyes.

Mikey's blue eyes are... highly unusual and certainly not a trait inherited from Splinter. Raph's are also very unlikely to have come from Hamato Yoshi (though in fairness I am assuming Hamato Yoshi is himself 100% Japanese genetic heritage)

An interesting point to note anyway - though it has little to do with the mutagen, it might make for a worthy point of discussion elsewhere.

Leo's eyes are actually a dark blue. Donnie is the only one with brown eyes.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Originally Posted by Luckyday

So this attendant might have blue eyes, gap tooth, freckles, and possibly a stout body type?

Possible, but that doesn't explain Raph's eyes! They're green....

Originally Posted by Tarris Vaal

Given that the Japanese themselves are notoriously homogeneous (they have very similar genetic nature), it would make sense that anyone descended from Splinter would have black hair (not really an issue here), but importantly Brown eyes.

Donnie and Leo do, but not Raph or Mikey. Now Green eyes are extremely unlikely but I'd be willing to say its just about possible - particularly given that the primary sources are Turtle rather than human DNA - though most turtle species have black eyes.

Mikey's blue eyes are... highly unusual and certainly not a trait inherited from Splinter. Raph's are also very unlikely to have come from Hamato Yoshi (though in fairness I am assuming Hamato Yoshi is himself 100% Japanese genetic heritage)

Not entirely true. MOST turtles actually have eyes in variations of yellow, brown, orange, or green, with a strong black bar across the middle. I've recently spent extensive time and effort researching turtle genetics and appearance variations, complete with compiling oodles of photos of various species for comparative reference. MOST of them have yellow eyes or shades of brown or greenish, and occasionally orange, grey, or red. Very dark eyes seems to be limited mostly to sea turtles and a few species of tortoises.

However, I read a news article recently about a rare blue-eyed variant of a sea turtle that was in captivity, so it's not impossible for one to have such a color even in the wild. And there are also albino turtles, which of course have pink or red eyes.

That said, Mikey's and Leo's eye colors most likely came from a human, and possibly Raph's as well. Not Yoshi, certainly, but it IS possible for a person to have genes for more than one eye-color, since each person inherits genes from BOTH parents. Thus, while a person may have brown eyes, they could have the gene for blue ones if one of their parents had blue eyes. Any DNA the turtles got from a human could very well have genes for any of the above colors- blue, brown, OR green, or even have genes for TWO colors.

This leads to some interesting possibilities of how the genes lined up in each of the four- Leo's mutation probably used human eye genes, ditto with Mikey's and Raph's. Donnie's appear almost red at times, so his are probably from the turtle side. So their mutations appear to have drawn differently from each of their two "halves" in each case. This raises the question of just how similar they are on a genetic level.

Originally Posted by victory_angel

Leo's eyes are actually a dark blue. Donnie is the only one with brown eyes.

Ditto this. Was going to point out Leo's eye color. Ya beat me to it.

[Tarris Vaal]

Quote:
Originally Posted by victory_angel View Post
Leo's eyes are actually a dark blue. Donnie is the only one with brown eyes.

Ditto this. Was going to point out Leo's eye color. Ya beat me to it.

Sorry sirs, my bad

That said, Mikey's and Leo's eye colors most likely came from a human, and possibly Raph's as well. Not Yoshi, certainly, but it IS possible for a person to have genes for more than one eye-color, since each person inherits genes from BOTH parents. Thus, while a person may have brown eyes, they could have the gene for blue ones if one of their parents had blue eyes. Any DNA the turtles got from a human could very well have genes for any of the above colors- blue, brown, OR green, or even have genes for TWO colors.

Interesting though - as this implies its more likely their eye colour came from their Turtle DNA. Its highly unlikely they would get blue or green eyes from Hamato Yoshi -unless he himself is half Japanese, which we dont know - even if he was its unlikely given that blue and green eyes are weaker genes and will generally less likely to occur where brown eyes are an option.

That said, it is possible the mutagen would muddy the waters on how the standard inherited genetics would work, perhaps drawing on all available possibilities and selecting at random (which is why we have such a wide variety among the 4 of them)

Snakeweed is another one which has unusual eyes, given the supposedly limited genetic selection to choose from, his are distinctly non human.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

But we already know Yoshi didn't touch them himself in the origin flashback. More likely, their genes came from the pet shop clerk. Daily feeding, health checks, and the periodic changing of water in their terrarium would certainly bring them into contact with PLENTY of human DNA traces. Handling is important with pet turtles to get them used to humans, and many pet store clerks will play with them for that reason. I'm betting their DNA is Caucasian, not Japanese. And Splinter IS full-blood Japanese, according to the various flashbacks, particularly the one in Kuro Kabuto, where it talks about the clan feuds between the Hamato and Foot clans. So that takes him right out of the picture in terms of being their biological "father".

As for the turtles' eye color, note I said RARELY are blue eyes found. Thus far, the sea turtle example (which is EXTREMELY rare itself) is the ONLY ONE I've come across. Green is slightly more common than some of the other colors I mentioned above like grey or red, but it's still not nearly as common as yellow or (usually very light) brown or orange/copper(this one can be considered a variation of either yellow or brown, depending on shade.). So it still stands as more likely from the human side. From the evidence, Donnie is the only one who probably got his color from the turtle side, as even green(ish) eyes on turtles are usually very washed out and have grey or brown in them. Donnie's brown-red ones look the most like a true turtle color. The other three all look very human-like colors. (Especially Leo's and Raph's- both are far too vivid for turtle eyes. Only humans have eyes so brightly tinted....)

[Tarris Vaal]

Just adding in some extra details from new observations of the latest trio of episodes.

Note: Spoilers for Battle of New York


* Rocksteady's knuckledusters appear to have fused with the flesh of his hands. Although most evidence from previous episodes would counter against this, this does appear to add to the instances of odd things happening to metal objects affected alongside mutated biological subjects (Karai, Speed Demon)

* Both Bebop and Rocksteady are clearly sane (at least as much as they ever were). That said, they both exhibit swift inclinations to adopt some of the animal characteristics they have gained (notably Rocksteady's temper). This is particularly interesting given that the creatures they were fused with were DNA samples only and not living creatures with developed personality traits.

* Dr Rockwell is also clearly sane, though it is not readily explained why he has suddenly become so after being clearly feral in previous appearances. It is possible to speculate that in a similar manner to Karai's mental state deteriorating due to modifications to the mutagen used on her, that Rockwell's mental state is slowly improving as a result of the experiments conducted on him.

* The Retromutagen MkII is clearly vastly superior and incredibly fast acting. Given that such a speedy physical mutation should be intensely painful and traumatic, there is no obvious evidence of this in the following scenes. This suggests that there is an anesthetic quality to the new formula. It remains to be seen how much memory the citizens of New York retain following their time in dimension X

[neatoman]

So here's a question, if the mutagen needed to be altered to work on earth, why would retromutagen created on earth work in Dimension X?

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Tarris Vaal

* Dr Rockwell is also clearly sane, though it is not readily explained why he has suddenly become so after being clearly feral in previous appearances. It is possible to speculate that in a similar manner to Karai's mental state deteriorating due to modifications to the mutagen used on her, that Rockwell's mental state is slowly improving as a result of the experiments conducted on him.

Rockwell explains the Kraang captured him and altered his intelligence.

[Tarris Vaal]

Rockwell explains the Kraang captured him and altered his intelligence.

Thanks V - I knew I needed another excuse to watch it again

So here's a question, if the mutagen needed to be altered to work on earth, why would retromutagen created on earth work in Dimension X?

That is a really, really good question

I guess the cheap answer would be that the Retromutagen MkII does work where normal retromutagen does not (at least then we could blame Mikey's influence - which seems appropriate), but it does feel like there should be a better answer than 'Because it does'

That said, we dont know if MkI retromutagen would work or not as it was never tested in Dimension X. It may be that the Retromutagen formula works regardless where it is used.

[Tarris Vaal]

The Mutagen effect on metals

I've been trying to figure out a way - in universe - how the mutagen appears to affect armour and metal attachments on mutated subjects. Critical to this line of rambling are:

Cockroach Terminator
Speed Demon
Karai
Rocksteady
Dogpound
Maybe Bebop

And wildcard Baxter Stockman

These are the primary instances involving a character wearing extensive metalwork. In each example;

Terminator clearly fuses with the various technological parts glued/strapped to his shell prior to mutation. These appear to directly fuse to his shell post mutation and in one case - the buzzsaw - are actively incorporated into a fleshy limb - a bone equivalent of the original saw on a larger scale.
Interestingly, none of these components appears to fuse to the internal flesh, only the exoskeleton.

Speed Demon was discussed earlier, however to reiterate - it is likely Speed Demon was a combination of roadkill and petrochemicals in the engine. In a similar manner to Terminator, it uses the metalwork present as a kind of exoskeletal armour - growing into it rather than with it - which is why the car itself doesnt increase in size.

Karai's armour, whilst thought to just be 'worn' by the snake Karai, does alter its appearance when she is in snake form. It also alters to protect her underbelly, taking the appearance of scales. Her shoulder pads are the most dramatic - in that they exist when she is in snake form and vanish when she isnt. Needless to say Karai poses a significant question. How and why does it change? Why is it there when she mutates into semi human form?

In a similar way to many mutations Rocksteady's clothing undergoes a significant change post mutation. In most cases the clothing vanishes (presumably destroyed) or is absorbed into the final mutant's body mass. Rocksteady is similar, but with notable differences:
- His clothing is completely different to his prior outfit. Though likely a nod to his OT roots, this is extremely annoying to explain 'in universe'. The best explanation is the simplest - these are clothes he was wearing beneath his coat.
- His shoulder pads, while reminiscent of those he wore prior to mutation, are significantly larger and a different shape. This brings us again to the question of how metal is affected by mutagen.
- His knuckle dusters are partially fused into the flesh of his fingers. This again implies that something is going on with the effects of mutagen on metal, and shows the interaction between flesh and metal. Further hints of metal in the veins of his upper arms is also visible.

Dogpound completely loses his upper clothing post mutation. This is likely due to the expanding muscle mass of his upper body, however, it is interesting to note that his original costume includes small series of spiked shoulder pads. Post mutation, he randomly has large shoulder spikes made of bone - hardly a normal dog trait. It is possible to theorize that the bone spikes are an echo of that original costume, perhaps again an absorption of the metal into the bone during mutation. Unlike Rocksteady, Dogpound's spikes are clearly bone, and are frequently shown to suffer damage.

Bebop is a big question mark. It is a possibility that his suit has fused with him, however this has not been confirmed and isnt immediately obvious from his appearance.

Baxter Stockman is a wildcard as he clearly doesn't lose his clothing post mutation (nor gain in size for that matter). The collar is also shown to break off, but its not clear whether it was removed immediately prior to mutation or was broken off afterwards. As such it appears that the mutation does not absorb his clothing nor destroy it, and that he didn't absorb the metalwork about his neck (potentially). It is just about feasible that the clothing 'did' fuse with him, as he has never changed it and it doesnt appear to be suffering damage despite the high likelihood of acid splash from his eating habits. Alternatively he may just have an insanely large stock of pink jumpers.


So with that settled, we can estimate the following effects that mutagen appears to have on metal;

* Metal items appear to be mutable in a similar way to organic, but are restricted to fusing with organic subjects and do not mutate individually.

* Metal items appear to need to be in very close proximity in order to mutate into the subject. Direct contact at time of the mutation (and possibly throughout) is necessary

* Metalwork does not necessarily mutate with the subject. Skin contact appears to be necessary, though its possible that limited clothing layers (skin tight bodysuits) may be insufficient to prevent fusion.

* Metalwork fused with the subject appears to remain inert. Rocksteady's veins do not appear to move, Cockroach terminators bionics appear only to be part of his exoskeleton, and Karai's armour appears to incorporate into her scales.

* Metalwork that includes machinery and moving parts appear to continue to work as originally intended and becomes incorporated as part of the subject. It is probable that they are powered using organic processes. Both Terminator and Speed demon clearly operate machinery as part of their bodily function. Potentially Bebop also falls into this category, however we are told he has his suit 'fixed' which implies that his suit is not fused as Stockman is an engineer and not a geneticist / biologist /surgeon (but then he obviously has been branching out recently into other areas of science)

* Some metalwork appears to be fully incorporated into the subjects bone/exoskeleton. Machine parts that have this occur retain their original function. Examples include Terminator's saw and potentially Dogpound's shoulder spikes. In theory, the metal would have to be completely dissolved and absorbed into the bone tissue during mutation, creating a bone alloy. It may seem unlikely Dogpound's spikes are in this category because they break so often, but a bone alloy does not necessarily equate to stronger bones.

* The metalwork retains 'shadows' of its previous form, suggesting it does not fully mutate - in a similar manner perhaps why most mutants remain humanoid. Rocksteady's shoulder pads alter, but are clearly still shoulderpads, his knuckledusters are fused but are clearly still knuckledusters, Karai's armour is still obviously a breastplate, Speed Demon is still clearly a car, and so on. This may be caused by the inert nature of the metal, preventing it from being fully mutated with the organic subject.



This then leads to the question of why does the metal mutate at all? If metal mutates (even partially) then why not tarmac, stone or soil? Well the Creep clearly does mutate with soil, creating a plant mutant similar to the Fungus Humungous, so its possible soil DOES mutate in a similar way to other organic matter. We have previously theorised that Speed Demon is partly a petrochemical mutant, which again suggests that inert semi organic components can be affected if also exposed to a organic subject.

To date there has been no fully robotic mutant, nor a fully stone or tarmac one, despite Mutagen shown to be spilled over such surfaces. As such, it seems likely that metal, stone or other inert objects cannot mutate alone and require an organic component to complete the process.

It seems likely that the mutagen does fuse exposed metal, stone, fabric and other inert objects into any mutated subject as part of its normal processes. This would explain why several mutants lose their clothing completely (beyond it being torn to shreds). It is possible that the fabric is literally absorbed into the subject, which may explain why several mutants increase in mass, as they absorb additional mass from the exposed objects in the immediate vicinity.
It also explains why Karai is wearing clothes when she changes. They are literally forming out of her flesh as she retromutates.

It does not explain why Kirby is nude when he retromutates. Though we do not see underneath the blanket post retromutation and its possible the clothes are underneath and no one noticed.

This would imply that Bebop is indeed fused to his clothing, as Baxter is to his pink jumper. Its possible Bebop's body suit's technological element prevents it from being fully absorbed into his body and forms a kind of exoskeleton. Whereas with Baxter, he was only exposed to relatively small amounts of mutagen, perhaps insufficient to allow him to fully absorb his clothing as anything more than an 'outer skin'.


Which then brings us back to the question of Karai's armour.

Because of Karai's unique mutation, there is a lot of speculation over how the rules apply to her. Needless to say, the armour is dramatically different in shape and style in humanoid and snake forms. We can postulate her armour is likely a steel alloy from appearance, intended to be strong and light to allow her to be able to move quickly without encumbrance. Most body armour is designed to protect from the weapons used by the person wearing it (as its the most likely grade of weapon it will have to be protecting them from). In Karai's case, this is bladed weapons. A bit of google fu reveals that the most likely armour type to protect against that involves hard shell resin and possibly kevlar (not dissimilar to Batman).

Assuming this is the case for the Foot clan elite, that would mean her armour is actually closer to an organic compound than a metallic one, which may explain why it changes form so dramatically and why it can fuse with her scales so well.

Following that line of thought, it also implies that as her human form is not fully human, its possible that the armour remains fused to her (and likely the rest of her clothing as well). This would at least remove any question of what happens were she to strip her armour off in human form and then remutate.


Thoughts?

[Amaranthus]

Did you figure out the Creep yet?
My theory is that he got mutated by Leo's vomit because the elixir came into contact with Leo, thus giving it mutagen characteristics again.

[Tarris Vaal]

Not yet I will try that one next I think (unless something major comes up in next couple of eps)

Good idea though

[Metalwolf]

Originally Posted by Tarris Vaal

Dogpound completely loses his upper clothing post mutation. This is likely due to the expanding muscle mass of his upper body, however, it is interesting to note that his original costume includes small series of spiked shoulder pads. Post mutation, he randomly has large shoulder spikes made of bone - hardly a normal dog trait. It is possible to theorize that the bone spikes are an echo of that original costume, perhaps again an absorption of the metal into the bone during mutation. Unlike Rocksteady, Dogpound's spikes are clearly bone, and are frequently shown to suffer damage.

The only problem with this part is that Slash also has this condition, and he had nothing metal on his body. Plus Steranko and Anton both had metal on their bodies and they never developed any abnormal spines.

The only thing I can think of that what the spines are to explain a lot of things, is that they might actually be composed similar to a rhino's horn and aren't actually true bone. Rhino horns are made of keratin, which is what turtle scales and mammal hair both heavily contain, which would also explain any cut spines' rapid regrowth over just a month or so. Even though rhino horns are ultimately just highly compressed hair, they can be strong enough to tear holes through car doors (or even help flip one) which makes them pretty useful (or pretty scary is used against you by an angry rhino.)

[Tarris Vaal]

Slash is a little more understandable though - as serrated shells are not unheard of among turtles and terrapins. It could be an exaggeration of an existing dna trait in his case.

That they are Keratin is almost certainly true Especially in Dogpound's case, he seems to lose the tip of that spine every few episodes through season 1 / 2

As though Anton and Zek, they did have some metal and it does appear to have fused with them (certainly Anton anyway). As I mentioned, there are his knuckledusters and a weird veining in his upper arms that looks metallic.

Zek is anyone's guess, but for my thinking at least I think VA may be right that his suit is potentially fused to him.


That said, you are correct that they didnt manifest spines (though Rocksteady's shoulder spikes certainly became more pronounced. Cant really think of a way of explaining that 'in universe')

[Tarris Vaal]

Checking into Zek and his suit - the action figures come to the rescue and confirm what some of us already suspected!

The suit is definitely - at least partially - fused to him. This would add further weight to the idea that metalwork in close proximity does fuse with organic material when exposed to mutagen. Interestingly in Zek's case we know that his suit was also repaired and is obviously a more complex piece of equipment than any previously seen on a mutant.

This implies that not only can Mutagen create Cyborgs, but that advanced (and likely delicate) equipment retains its functions post mutation.

In theory, to prevent damage to biological functions, any metalwork incorporated into the flesh, would have to be fused into the epidermal layer and or potentially grafted onto the bone . In theory, this would depend upon the subjects involved in the mutation; Reptillian and insectoid mutants would likely have metalwork incorporated into scales and exoskeletons - its the primary point of contact during mutation and would follow natural rules more closely - because there is a natural precedent for protective armoured layers in those genetic groups, the metal work on the subject is simply incorporated along those lines. Machinery (such as buzzsaws) becomes part of the same bone/exoskeletal tissue.

In the case of Mammalian mutants, metalwork would likely be fused into the flesh and skin. There is no natural equivalent in the DNA for the mutagen to follow, so the mutagen would likely follow the most basic pattern. This may be why Rocksteady's knuckledusters are still plainly knuckledusters, and why Zek's suit remains largely functional without becoming plainly organic in nature. It may also explain why Speed demon is still a car and not a transformer.

This does mean however that Rocksteady's skin - though tough - must hurt like hell whenever he punches something. In theory the knuckledusters wouldnt be fused to the finger bones and would 'slide' the flesh of his fist each time they are impacted.

It would also imply that Bebop can never remove his jacket or any other part of the suit connected to the suit's power source. At least not without potentially pulling the cybernetic components out of his own flesh. Unpleasant thought.

[Tarris Vaal]

The Creep Question

The Creep. This is an unusual mutant because it isnt formed from the classic mutagen, nor a weaponized equivalent. Instead this is created following an attempt by Donatello to create a mutagen based ingested medicine to help Leo recover from his injuries.

This has a few interesting factors straight off;

* Donatello clearly believes that the mutagen has some healing properties (why else would he feed it to his injured brother?). This is interesting as its the first time in this particular iteration of the show where mutagen is used in such a manner (Ooze in other iterations appears to have a similar regenerative effect).

- That the mutagen has a regenerative effect at all makes sense as any attempt to mutate a living subject would require extremely rapid healing to prevent horrendous physical trauma during a mutation. As several mutants (if not all of them) apparently retain mutagen within their bodies it may also explain why mutants tend to be tougher and heal faster than normal humans.

* The mutagen is a clearly modified version, created by Donatello. To be safe for its intended use, Donatello must have presumably found a way to prevent its mutagenic effect and retain its regenerative one. This implies that if he can do it in the early farmhouse lab, he can certainly recreate it later (though there is the question of whether - given the events that follow - it would be a good idea.)


The Creep is created as a result of Leo vomiting up the 'medicine' onto the ground. The only organic material present is the plants and soil, which implies the Creep is a Plant based mutant. As mutagen almost always creates humanoid mutations (unless modified via experimentation such as the Parasitica wasp) this would give immediate explanation of the physical appearance of the Creep.

The Creep exhibits several abilities unique to it, primarily an extreme resistance to damage, and the ability to 'drain' mutagen deposits from others. Given the nature of the mutagen that created it, it follows that the Creep would have unusually enhanced regenerative qualities. It is likely as Amaranthus suggested, that some of the mutagen deposits in Leo were vomited out with the Ooze, returning the ability to mutate to the liquid and resulting in the Creep.

This is likely to have been comparatively very small amounts, which may be why the Creep seems to have little ability to communicate and why it appears to be more of an accumulation of plants rather than 1 large plant (such as Snakeweed or Fungus humungous).
In effect, it follows the Ooze only had enough mutagenic quality to fuse the plants in proximity into a basic humanoid shape and cause them to gain humanoid sentience and awareness. The plants would have grown dramatically, but not enough individually to produce a fully developed mutant, nor enough mutagen to fuse them into a consistent form.

The Creeps ability to drain mutagen is oddly depicted. Though Don states its draining the mutagen out of Raph, the result to Raph should have been a reversion to a normal turtle. Instead he becomes something akin to a miniaturized version of the Creep and eventually a normal plant.

This suggests Donnie was mistaken - at least initially. It seems more likely that the Creep injected something into Raph to induce that change. As Raph's plant form resembles the Creep's own, its likely that the Creep injected him with Ooze deposits from within itself, effectively mutating Raph with the Creep's own DNA strands.

Coupled with the evident reverence of Mutagen that the Creep has, and its desperation to gather more, this suggests that the Creep was intending to extract mutagen where it detected it. Possibly as a way of replicating itself.

So Donnie was right - ish. The Creeps unique makeup of multiple plant subjects, its behaviour and unusual mutagen origins suggest it can only extract mutagen from similar mutants to itself. It can however force a mutation of its victims into plant states which, once complete, allow for the mutagen in them to be extracted more easily. This would be why Raph eventually is turned into a plant and not a turtle; his DNA has been fundamentally altered to make him more Creep than Turtle genetically speaking.

The Creep is thereby, a sort of cross between compost heap, mutagenic vampire, Jason Vorhees and the Trolls from Trolls 2 (dont. Just dont watch it. No one deserves to be subject to movies of that calibre.)

[Tarris Vaal]

Muckman's mutation

So new episode, new mutant and plenty of questions of how it could possibly work. Needless to say

- Spoilers -


First off observations:

* He has Telekinetic powers which are shown affecting trash, but arent explicitly stated or implied to be limited to them. It may just be that the trash is just loose debris in that happens to be in the area - though notably living organisms (a rat) are not affected.

* Muckman is physically speaking, a complete mess. He has exposed innards, exposed bone structure and apparently a broken spine and digestive system. Its a wonder he is even alive or walking.

* Joe eyeball - a separate living entity with the ability to think, speak and move. No indication where this entity originated from or how it communicates with no visible mouth.


So explaining this one in universe...

Well, given the basic rules of mutagen based mutation, we require a primary subject, a secondary and potentially tertiary subjects to splice together.

Muckman takes a canister to the face and falls into a bin. In this case, the worker is the obvious primary subject, however its likely that given the bin is far from empty, the number of secondary subjects is potentially huge! It may explain why he is such a genetic mess. He is literally a human spliced with potentially dozens of other source materials. Previous examples have generally indicated that mutagen will use any number of available sources for its 'end result'.

As most of the bins contents would be organic or organic based it is all potentially usable for a mutation (as theorized for Speed Demon, Chimera and Creep.) With so much material to utilize and all of it of equally poor quality, the mutation would borrow elements from all kinds of sources, but this increases the chances of destabilization and genetic mishap with the end result of a seemingly horrific genetic mix (Chimera/Justin).
Evidence of certain elements (such as the fish skeleton on his chest), indicates that although incorporated and fused into his flesh, there wasn't sufficient mutagen to fully integrate all the elements. This may explain why he has a gaping hole in his chest, in that there mutagen had so much to work with it couldn't 'complete' the mutation.
Mutagen does not kill a subject however, so I can only theorize that although the mutation was seemingly incomplete, the existing 'working' elements of the workers physiology were incorporated and allow him to survive. Presumably, there is a semblance of spine, skeletal structure and vascular system remaining in there somewhere - though likely to be extremely jumbled up. Its possible that the sheer abundance of material has also given him several 'redundant' organ systems, that would allow him to take heavy damage whilst still functioning - perhaps explaining how he survived the Kraang traps and why the spinal column is broken yet he still walks.

His ability to become a kind of slop to slide around with is poorly shown in the episode - we never get a clear image. Its implied he can break his body down into a kind of ooze like slop to move through tight spaces. This alludes again to his unique physical state. Its possible that this is a trait of the likely vast amount of bacteria incorporated into his genetic makeup, as well as a reflection of the haphazard nature of the genetic material he's sourced from. His body is literally breaking down into a semi gelatinous state, before reconstituting itself. This suggests that he may be a composite creature with a single mind - rather like a jellyfish. This theory is further supported by the existence of Joe Eyeball.

His telekinetic powers are also an interesting quirk. Fortunately we have one other mutant that exhibits similar powers - April O Neil. We know the Kraang were attempting to clone and repeat the experiments that created her, so its possible that given this particular mutagen canister was in a Kraang lab, that its been modified to encourage those elements in the mutated subject.
There isnt any evidence to say this is exclusively a 'Trash' affecting power either. All scenes in the episode where the power are used happen to be in back alleys, so it makes sense a barely controlled telekinetic storm would pick up and throw around loose debris - in this happenstance, trash.
It's also interesting to note that - like April - his powers appear to occur in states of high emotion, though - unlike April - they do not directly appear to have much effect on living organisms (a rat in this case especially). This may be due to the experimental nature of the mutagen, or that April's emotional state was usually much stronger (her mortal danger rather than muckman's anger)

Finally Joe Eyeball - this creature posits two interesting possibilities. Firstly, its clear the eye is able to locomote independently and has some level of autonomy from Muckman. Its lack of visible mouth suggests a symbiotic/parasitic relationship with Muckman. We've already suggested Muckman is a composite creature (made of several creatures) and Joe supports this, though is clearly a more developed version.
Its possible that Joe is the remains of a rodent caught up in the mutation - rather than a genetic leftover. This would explain its autonomy and ability to think and move independently of Muckman.
The other possibility it indicates is that Muckman is suffering from severe emotional trauma. Although Joe Eyeball is seen during the episode, at no point does he speak to anyone other than Muckman. No one else hears Joe speak, (though they hear Muckman speak to him) and Joe has no interaction with any other character. Joe also introduces himself as a kind of good conscience for Muckman - like a facet personality.
This suggests that Muckman is literally overlaying a personality onto Joe. That Joe isnt speaking at all, and is potentially not even truly autonomous but just another composite part of Muckman that he has 'granted' this personality to. Muckman may be suffering from a fractured psyche and Joe may be his mind's attempt to cope or a symptom of his psychological damage. He is literally hearing Joe speak, when all of it is in his head.

Sad thought

[Tarris Vaal]

So new mutant and new episode!

Well the good news is that Mondo's mutation is very standard and follows all known and established patterns;

Standard mutagen exposure, an obvious primary and secondary gene source, relatively calm at moment of mutation, resulting in a sane mutant humanoid Gecko.

All good Mutant list updated (page 2)

The bad news is that Pizza face is in this episode. Albeit only as a cameo. However it does mean that Pizza face is not a figment of Mikey's imagination.

I am tempted to try and avoid trying to explain Pizza face's existence by suggesting Mikey just saw every mutant he could remember in the viewing gallery and actually he really did just imagine it... but that may just be copping out.


So... trying to explain Pizza Face in an 'in universe context'.

God help me.

Pizza Face - explain this one...

Firstly; Observations - Pizza Face has a relatively standard initial mutation from information known. He is exposed to a standard canister and the secondary gene source is obviously a pizza (itself an organic product). So far so good, this neatly correlates with theories on Speed Demon and Muckman (that secondary sources need not be initially alive, just viable samples and that composite mutants sourced from several different sources are possible). It makes sense that Pizza face has several tertiary sources, mostly animal (milk/cheese/meat) but also plant (mushroom/cornflour/tomato)

Again this still conforms to known trends from the Creep, Speed Demon and Muckman.

The difficulty comes from Pizza face's abilities, namely;

Mind Control
Levitation (and possible telekinesis)
Spawning
Cannibalistic tendencies

Spawning - in that the mutant can produce 'offpsring' which exhibit the same traits - is shown to be possible with Fungus Humungous, Cockroach terminator and the Squirrelanoids. Although not really delved into, its also presumably possible with every other mutant, albeit along more traditional means. As pizzas do not spawn normally, it makes sense that the 'spawn' of pizza face are just normal pizzas infected with his own cheese tissue. In effect, they are 'diluted' versions of himself, using limited amounts of inherent mutagen, and using the pizza as a primary source and Pizza face's corrupted human dna as secondary rather than the other way around. This would explain why the spawn are still pizza shaped where Pizza face is a Jabba esque blob with humanoid arms.

Cannibalistic tendencies - Pizza Face's modus operandum was described as to draw humans to his lair to eat them. Most mutants retain their previous personalities post mutation, especially those who are capable of communication. In fact, only Speed Demon retains the ability to speak, yet is clearly not 'sane' in the classic sense. Pizza Face's decision to eat people indicates he has either gone insane and is an exception to the rule, or worse that Antonio's had a lot darker things going on than previously realised before his mutation.

It is not a good sign that a pizza chef decides that a strange glowing liquid in a secured canister that fell into a back alley from the sky would make a good ingredient for human consumption.

Mind Control - It is obviously not a normal instance for a pizza to control someones mind. Nor an ability of any constituent part of a pizza (not unless he was using particularly unusual mushrooms that day when he added the mutagen - that must have really been a weird day for him)

Anyway, the only thing I can think of is that the mind control is linked to an animal's natural inclination to become addicted to salty foods. Salty and sugary foodstuffs can produce hormones that can literally become addictive. Theoretically the mutagen may have greatly amplified this trait in the pizza spawn.
We know that all the pizza zombies in question had to consume the pizza spawn before becoming mind controlled, and that they crave more afterward. That said Mikey does appear immune despite eating some of Pizza Face's..... cheese, yet we are regularly shown that Mikey is capable of eating almost anything without suffering particularly ill effects; including things that should kill him.

As for the 'mozarella cadre' I can only presume that the....cheese used for this process is again a more amplified version and puts the subject into a highly suggestive and effectively drugged state. This may also explain why Splinter was defeated by Mikey if he was in a impaired state of mind.

Levitation/Telekinesis - The pizza spawn are regularly shown levitating throughout the episode. Levitation is itself a form of telekinesis and telekinesis is depicted in other mutants across the series - notably April O Neil and more recently Muckman. It is possible that manifesting this ability in a mutant is a rare side effect and may occur on very rare occasions without the ability needing to be present in other sources. Its possible that the Krathatragon worms are themselves telekinetic as they are seen 'flying' in Dimension X, potentially using it as a means of propulsion in a similar way to a snake in water. Potentially they do not do so in Wormquake because they are in a tunnel and room doesn't allow it.

If this is the case, it means that the spawn are manifesting a rare ability inherent in the mutagen itself. Which implies that potentially any mutant could manifest a telekinetic ability. This may be why Pizza face himself does not have such a power.

It is also possible that Telekinesis is linked to composite mutations - where a multitude of sources are present, making the proportion of Krathatragon DNA inherent in the mutagen larger compared to the proportion of other sources.



I'm literally clutching at straws here and I'm open to suggestions