Do you think Raph is getting enough character/central focus?

[Powder]

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

Where did you get this info from?

By having eyeballs?

[BubblyShell22]

Originally Posted by Sabacooza

Okay, then why were the other 3 not good enough to train and even bother to try and learn the technique? It's like it was a Leo only club and you're not invited kind of deal. They could've at least had it where the others were trying the healing hands thing but weren't able to pick it up. Mikey and Raph were taken out right away so they could focus on you guessed it, Leo. We already had a Leo episode disguised as a Raph episode with the Dark Raph episode. Leo also got praised in that one by the others and then in Deadly Venom he gets praised yet again but even more so. That might have been okay but there was only one episode in between that and it seemed too soon and too much.The writer couldn't have hit us over the head any harder that Leo is his favorite and the best turtle ever in his opinion.

Okay, I feel the need to chime in here. It had nothing to do with it being a Leo only club. The others just didn't have a desire to learn the technique while Leo did, and as I've said before, it's because I feel that Leo is more spiritually inclined than the others to learn this technique. Raph wouldn't have the patience, Mikey wouldn't have the focus, and Don wouldn't believe in it because he's more into what can be proven. So it makes sense that it would be Leo who would learn the technique instead of the others. And if they'd shown it the way you wanted them to, people would still be b*tching and moaning about it being favoritism.

And the reason Leo got praised was because he did a good thing and he was feeling down because he didn't rescue Karai. Splinter was comforting him as any parent would do, and I really liked how he did that. As for the brothers, they were just grateful that they were alive and that Leo was the one to rescue them. And, let's face it, they couldn't have done what Leo did because they were knocked out cold and dying. So it fell to Leo to use the technique and save the day.

Look, I know Raph's your favorite and I get that you don't like how he's been treated. As a Leo fan, I'd probably feel the same way. However, we have at least eight more episodes to go and anything can happen in them. So the best thing you can do is be patient.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Originally Posted by GoldMutant

According to the episode, the writer here is Eugene Son. He wrote two episodes of the 2003 series, Scion of the Shredder and Trouble with Augie both from season 4. In the Deadly Venom, he is the writer for the episode. He also wrote Follow the Leader and Mazes & Mutants in season 2 of the 2012 series.

Oh okay, Scion of the Shredder and Trouble with Augie were two of my favorite episodes. And that would explain why I enjoyed Follow the Leader.

Originally Posted by Powder

By having eyeballs?

Oh, guru here!

[Meliwen]

Originally Posted by BubblyShell22

Okay, I feel the need to chime in here. It had nothing to do with it being a Leo only club. The others just didn't have a desire to learn the technique while Leo did, and as I've said before, it's because I feel that Leo is more spiritually inclined than the others to learn this technique. Raph wouldn't have the patience, Mikey wouldn't have the focus, and Don wouldn't believe in it because he's more into what can be proven. So it makes sense that it would be Leo who would learn the technique instead of the others. And if they'd shown it the way you wanted them to, people would still be b*tching and moaning about it being favoritism.

"And now you show great gifts as a healer. Being at the edge of your life gave you a power that few martial artists can tap."

I think that's another reason why Splinter only offered to teach Leo. Not necessarily because Leo is more spiritually inclined (even though he probably is), or that the others would be unable to get into the right mindset (they all did well in the Spirit Quest, after all), but because Leo has completed what seems to be a prerequisite. None of the others were as close to death as Leo was in the coma. Splinter knew that, so there's no point in teaching them to begin with. Now if Splinter taught only Leo a new fighting move and never offered to teach the others, then I'd be upset, since there's no reason why the others wouldn't be able to learn it as well.

For those who grow a little tired at the Leo focus, and the type of focus he's getting, then all the little things start adding up. Him learning the healing and getting praised at the end aren't bad things by themselves, and I like how the turtles get along and how easily Raph can complement Leo without jealousy, but looking at these moments in addition to everything that's happened to Leo so far, I can see why it can seem a little much.

If we got confirmation that each turtle will get focus in different seasons, I'd be able to better enjoy Leo's character progress here. As it stands that's just a guess, and so far we don't know if each turtle will get decent character arcs, or if the writers have just decided that they weren't interested at all in balancing each turtles importance to the story and chose only to focus on a few.

Look, I know Raph's your favorite and I get that you don't like how he's been treated. As a Leo fan, I'd probably feel the same way. However, we have at least eight more episodes to go and anything can happen in them. So the best thing you can do is be patient.

There are three episodes that we know of, three unnamed ones and then the two part season finale. Since Raph only has had one episode this season, I'm fairly certain either one of those three episode before the finale will be an episode for him, or he'll play a decent role in the finale itself. Because I don't see them leaving any one turtle with only one episode for focus in a season, even if the season is mainly focused on another turtle.

[Foombamaroom]

I'm all for Leo's development this season. The difference from 2003 is that they gave Leo all of the development, while this one's just giving him a season. And based on what happened in the finale, it's understandable as to why. Donnie held most of season 2, since it was the mutagen based season. This season has definitely shifted over to Shredder, since the Kraang weren't that big of a presence in this season. My problem is that Raph has only gotten one episode. I really didn't mind the way they were handling him until we got into the second half of season 2, and now season 3 has been a nightmare. When I heard that we were getting Dark Raph, I was super excited because that could develop Raph's character, while also bouncing back to Leo's character development. But if Raph and Mikey get season 4, I'll be fine. Those two really deserve it. We need to explore Raph's softer side. Plus, aren't we getting an episode explaining Raph's anger and the scar that's in his shell?

[BubblyShell22]

Meli, I don't think Splinter was talking about Leo being in the coma. I think he was talking about Leo nearly dying because of the venom and that allowed him to tap into his spiritual side and get over it.

Yeah, they said there would be an episode exploring how Raph got the crack in his plastron, and I hope they show it, too as that would be a good episode for Raph.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by GoldMutant

I get that Jester, that's a main gripe though for me. They had a potentially great conflict with each other, tying into Raph's anger and Xever's life.

However, if the show is portraying the Turtles to be getting stronger (especially Leo), Fishface is losing being a threatening villain. His first fighting appearance established him as a threat to the team with poisoning Raphael and beating the team up. However, with Bradford becoming Rahzar, Tiger Claw being brought in, and the mutations of Bebop and Rocksteady, it ruins Xever's strength. Outside Baxter, he's the least threatening of the henchmutants by now.

I love Xever to death, but this had potential and is a major problem for Raphael, which is lost potential. The rivalry here was most certainly one of them.

Not to mention, Xever's personality in that maze Baxter made for everyone seemed to hint that Xever might be going on the straight side in the future, making him an even less of a threat if he starts thinking of giving up the criminal life. I was really hoping to maybe see Angel in the show, and she is related to Xever.

Originally Posted by Foombamaroom

The biggest problem with the Nick show is that, I honest to god believe, there are too many writers. Think about it? You've got one writer establishing a certain thing in the universe, and then the next writer forgets it. The writer of Deadly Venom obviously did his homework because there are multiple references to previous episodes. But think of Serpent Hunt, Casey Jones vs. The Underworld, and Clash of the Mutanimals. What's the connection here?
Shredder

Serpent Hunt, episode 3x10 has the Turtles and Shredder engaging in a hardcore battle. The Turtles land some hits, but Shredder's still beating the everloving crap out of them.
Casey Jones vs. the Underworld, 3x14, has Leo going toe-to-toe with Shredder, being able to hold his ground against him without his brothers, even though Leo got the crap kicked out of him by Shredder prior to their fight.
Clash of the Mutanimals, 3x16, has the Turtles AND the Mutanimals getting the everloving crap kicked out of them by Shredder, who holds his ground and gets hit by Rockwell, who used telekinesis.

This also happens with Tiger Claw. In Wormquake, he was a decent fighter, but all of a sudden, in Wrath of Tiger Claw, he kicked the hell out of them. Then, in the next episode, the Turtles could fight him again. It bothers me because they not only do it with character personality traits, but the fighting abilities of the characters.

And this is when the producers and a good head writer come into play, because they keep track of the show to make sure things don't get too screwed up, but, I guess they have this mentality that the show is for kids only, kids are stupid, so who cares about plot holes and irregulaties. Toys are selling mega bucks, and that is all that matters to the powers that be.

[Splinter the boss]

Originally Posted by Foombamaroom

The biggest problem with the Nick show is that, I honest to god believe, there are too many writers. Think about it? You've got one writer establishing a certain thing in the universe, and then the next writer forgets it. The writer of Deadly Venom obviously did his homework because there are multiple references to previous episodes. But think of Serpent Hunt, Casey Jones vs. The Underworld, and Clash of the Mutanimals. What's the connection here?
Shredder

Serpent Hunt, episode 3x10 has the Turtles and Shredder engaging in a hardcore battle. The Turtles land some hits, but Shredder's still beating the everloving crap out of them.
Casey Jones vs. the Underworld, 3x14, has Leo going toe-to-toe with Shredder, being able to hold his ground against him without his brothers, even though Leo got the crap kicked out of him by Shredder prior to their fight.
Clash of the Mutanimals, 3x16, has the Turtles AND the Mutanimals getting the everloving crap kicked out of them by Shredder, who holds his ground and gets hit by Rockwell, who used telekinesis.

This also happens with Tiger Claw. In Wormquake, he was a decent fighter, but all of a sudden, in Wrath of Tiger Claw, he kicked the hell out of them. Then, in the next episode, the Turtles could fight him again. It bothers me because they not only do it with character personality traits, but the fighting abilities of the characters.

You have a good point when you say they not only mess up with their characters but also their fighting abilities, cause in the season 2 finale when leo was fighting fishface, rhazar, and tigerclaw I was like " leo, you will not make it alive fighting all three of them ". And then what happened? He beat fishface, rhazar, and tigerclaw with one kick. I was really dissapointed.

And I voted yes in the poll because Raph really has changed from season 1 to season 3. See how he cared for leo and trained with him when he was badly injured.

[Sabacooza]

Originally Posted by BubblyShell22

Okay, I feel the need to chime in here. It had nothing to do with it being a Leo only club. The others just didn't have a desire to learn the technique while Leo did, and as I've said before, it's because I feel that Leo is more spiritually inclined than the others to learn this technique. Raph wouldn't have the patience, Mikey wouldn't have the focus, and Don wouldn't believe in it because he's more into what can be proven. So it makes sense that it would be Leo who would learn the technique instead of the others. And if they'd shown it the way you wanted them to, people would still be b*tching and moaning about it being favoritism.

And the reason Leo got praised was because he did a good thing and he was feeling down because he didn't rescue Karai. Splinter was comforting him as any parent would do, and I really liked how he did that. As for the brothers, they were just grateful that they were alive and that Leo was the one to rescue them. And, let's face it, they couldn't have done what Leo did because they were knocked out cold and dying. So it fell to Leo to use the technique and save the day.

Look, I know Raph's your favorite and I get that you don't like how he's been treated. As a Leo fan, I'd probably feel the same way. However, we have at least eight more episodes to go and anything can happen in them. So the best thing you can do is be patient.

Yeah, it kind of was a Leo only club. They don't have a desire to learn it because that's the way it was written. It could have been written any number of ways. Why not show it like you stated above with Raph's lack of patience, Mikey's lack of focus and Donnie not believing it. Yes, Leo picking it up would've still came off as him being the best but would've lessened the blow if all the others were included and at least tried to do it. It just seemed a lot like favoritism to me.

Leo saved the day in Clash of the Mutanimals and in Deadly Venom and got praised both times. It was too soon with only one episode in between so it came off as a Leo love fest. If it were spread out, maybe it would've been more tolerable. I found it very unsatisfying that at the end of the Clash of the Mutanimals they all talked about the mutanimals being under mind control and nothing of Raph being under mind control, their own brother, like it didn't even matter. What was up with that?

I've heard "have patience" before when I was flipping out about the Dark Raph episode before it even aired and look how that turned out. I'd like to think these last 8 episodes have a lot more in store for Raph but yeah, I'd bet the bank that it's not going to happen.

Originally Posted by Meliwen

So far we don't know if each turtle will get decent character arcs, or if the writers have just decided that they weren't interested at all in balancing each turtles importance to the story and chose only to focus on a few.

Judging from what I've seen so far, I'd say it's the later.

Originally Posted by Foombamaroom

I'm all for Leo's development this season. The difference from 2003 is that they gave Leo all of the development, while this one's just giving him a season. And based on what happened in the finale, it's understandable as to why. Donnie held most of season 2, since it was the mutagen based season. This season has definitely shifted over to Shredder, since the Kraang weren't that big of a presence in this season. My problem is that Raph has only gotten one episode. I really didn't mind the way they were handling him until we got into the second half of season 2, and now season 3 has been a nightmare. When I heard that we were getting Dark Raph, I was super excited because that could develop Raph's character, while also bouncing back to Leo's character development. But if Raph and Mikey get season 4, I'll be fine. Those two really deserve it. We need to explore Raph's softer side. Plus, aren't we getting an episode explaining Raph's anger and the scar that's in his shell?

See, I could probably forgive what happened in season 3 if they make it up by giving season 4 to Raph and season 5 to Mikey. If there is no season 5 then give season 4 to both Raph and Mikey. Like you said, Season 2 seemed more Donnie centric and season 3 was more Leo centric. Either way, I'd like to see more happening with Raph and Mikey.

As far as the whole crack in the shell thing goes, maybe we'll get it. Maybe we won't. Look what happened to Mutagen Man being a major part of season 2. I'm not too hopeful.

Originally Posted by Splinter the boss

And I voted yes in the poll because Raph really has changed from season 1 to season 3. See how he cared for leo and trained with him when he was badly injured.

Yeah, he has changed. There's a lot less of him and a lot less character development so I can't see how you can come to the conclusion that he is getting more character/ central focus. Yes, he was handled very well in the first episode of season 3 with him watching over, comforting and lifting leo's spirits but that was only one episode and then he was captured, turned into a dog plant and then a flower. Him being shoved to the side, being the damsel in distress became the norm after that but hey, if that's what you believe, no harm, no foul.

[Foombamaroom]

Originally Posted by Splinter the boss

You have a good point when you say they not only mess up with their characters but also their fighting abilities, cause in the season 2 finale when leo was fighting fishface, rhazar, and tigerclaw I was like " leo, you will not make it alive fighting all three of them ". And then what happened? He beat fishface, rhazar, and tigerclaw with one kick. I was really dissapointed.

That didn't bother me at all. Leo was being pushed to his absolute limits, and that scene was supposed to show that he wasn't going down without a fight. The Leo one-shot is my favorite TMNT story because Leo mans himself up and takes a stand against unfathomable odds, and that it also puts a serious toll on the brotherhood of the Turtles and shows just how strong they are.

Originally Posted by Sabacooza

See, I could probably forgive what happened in season 3 if they make it up by giving season 4 to Raph and season 5 to Mikey. If there is no season 5 then give season 4 to both Raph and Mikey. Like you said, Season 2 seemed more Donnie centric and season 3 was more Leo centric. Either way, I'd like to see more happening with Raph and Mikey.

As far as the whole crack in the shell thing goes, maybe we'll get it. Maybe we won't. Look what happened to Mutagen Man being a major part of season 2. I'm not too hopeful.

I don't mind the season 3 Leo centric because it fits. Think about it: Shredder's the singular main antagonist of the season, as he's not sharing that spot with the Kraang anymore, and Leo just got out of a huge confrontation with him and has been gearing up to face him again. Donnie... Donnie's season was bad because I didn't like the mutagen spill plot, I didn't like the Casey/April/Donnie plot, and in almost all the episodes that focus on Donnie, he just really, really pisses me off. I can't say I hate Donnie, since in the episodes where it's focused on another Turtle or if it's a group episode, I'm fine with it. But I cannot stand Donnie episodes.

The thing is that Mikey and Raph episodes are usually filler episodes. I'm really not looking forward to a Mikey centric season, since Mikey hasn't really been matured yet. Raph? We need a Raph season. Slash and Destroy proved that Raph CAN hold his own emotional, non-filler episode.

[GoldMutant]

I kind of disagree with Mikey unable to handle an episode on his own. Yes, The Croaking was easily the bottom of the series so far, but Michelangelo can handle an episode to his own. His first episode in season 1, the Leatherhead episodes and Into Dimension X! are prime examples he can be handled well in the show. Like Raph, the party dude can do it guys. Allow me to quote what I said in the past:

Originally Posted by GoldMutant

The original toon and the movies (minus 3 and PD) captured the party dude perfectly. He was light-hearted, cool-witted, laid back, and just an overall fun guy you want. Perfect for the young demographic.

However, I don't think Mikey is dumb in the Nick show, but his characterization is one of the more off putting things in the series. Sometimes he's hilarious (The Olympics!), sometimes he's a bada** (Dimension X episodes), sometimes he's perfect for emotion (The Invasion and Leatherhead come to mind), but he has his fair share of stupidity. Due to him lacking substantial growth like Raphael in the show, Michelangelo always flips from likable to just untolerable.

I'd like Mikey to mature more, he can still be a goofball but has a lot of potential to grow. It almost went well following the Invasion, but the Croaking screwed him up.

I don't get why we have to dumb him down in the incarnations, he can be serious and funny. He's arguably the weakest character yet due to his age (and the fact he acts like Beast Boy from Teen Titans due to having Greg Cipes as the va), but it leaves a lot to be desired.

I think along with Raph, the dude can handle himself for a season, even just for a few episodes. There's a lot of potential, he's just being held back for the demographic unfortunately.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by GoldMutant

I kind of disagree with Mikey unable to handle an episode on his own. Yes, The Croaking was easily the bottom of the series so far, but Michelangelo can handle an episode to his own. His first episode in season 1, the Leatherhead episodes and Into Dimension X! are prime examples he can be handled well in the show. Like Raph, the party dude can do it guys. Allow me to quote what I said in the past:



I think along with Raph, the dude can handle himself for a season, even just for a few episodes. There's a lot of potential, he's just being held back for the demographic unfortunately.

I agree with this. I wished they would focus more on the Mikey that is nurturing to all, and I would have rather he be the healer of the team, and not super Leo.

[Leofan26]

It's the Nick show over all, these guy's just have trouble writing the characters.

Look at Donnie for example, he had a season focused a lot on him but the way these guy's wrote him well. The love triangle didn't help.

Though I wish you guy's would stop dragging Leo into this, he's the leader of the team and even in the comics his story arc always ties in with Shredder / Karai so it's not just 4kids /Nick series doing this.

With this series most likely having four seasons, five if lucky. These writers are trying fit these stories in, Shredder is the main villain and with these being the last few seasons they really should focus on that.

[Meliwen]

Originally Posted by BubblyShell22

Meli, I don't think Splinter was talking about Leo being in the coma. I think he was talking about Leo nearly dying because of the venom and that allowed him to tap into his spiritual side and get over it.

Yeah, they said there would be an episode exploring how Raph got the crack in his plastron, and I hope they show it, too as that would be a good episode for Raph.

Ah, you're probably right about that. In general, I think the healing hands would have better benefited from being introduced earlier. More/longer struggle for Leo to learn it, and better payoff in the end.

I'll be excited to see what Mikey can do with an arc, so hopefully that comes into play later.

[Werecat]

For awhile I have been thinking that the focus on Leo or Leatherhead's rage is detrimental to Raph's character because it causes multiple characters to have a recurrent theme. The rage theme define Raph's character and to make it repetitive and dull will hurt Raphael's character as well.

Raph needs some elaboration on his violent impulses; an elaboration that explains that Raph's rage runs deeper and is more of a genetic mutation than PTSD. The creators of TMNT even wrote drafts and comics that depict Raphael's further descend into madness by making his second mutation more monstrous. I think it would help the flow of future episodes if Raphael's rage is a genetic mutation; it would maintain his defined characteristic while informing the audience that he is not some character that forgets previous learned lessons.

The genetic factor could also be used as a way to explore the genetic side of aggression. There are research articles/documentaries that show that violent impulses have to do more with genetic/environment variables than previous thoughts of rage being caused from lack of sex or other trivial things(which is silly).

Researching the mind of killers could also be a great way to understand how violent impulses are caused. Just read the case of Charles Whitman or something for an idea of aggression. I am not saying to make Raph a serial killer but to research subjects who have had overwhelming violent impulses then use it as a reference to thouroughly flesh out Raph's violent impulses.

http://brainmind.com/Case5.html
Teh charles whitman article has great diary entries that express his thoughts. Elaine Fuess had this to say about him:
"Even when he looked perfectly normal, he gave you the feeling of trying to control something in himself. He knew he had a temper, and he hated this in himself. He hated the idea of cruelty in himself and tried to suppress it."

Silly Edmund Kemper interview in spoiler.

Spoiler:

Around 15min he explains a situation were the urge to kill is beyond his control, some killers have the same view on it. The original Raphael expressed in some comics that the urge to kill is overwhelming and it scares him. The Charles whitman article above previews one of his diary entries that attempts to explain the fear and the helplessness of having cruelty within oneself. As you can see there is more behind violent impulses.

http://www.personalityresearch.org/papers/jones.html
This is an article that explores the potential causes of violent impulses. The cause of aggression or criminal behaviour may be the cause of:

• Neurochemicals
  "Dopamine is a neurotransmitter in the brain that is associated with pleasure and is also one of the neurotransmitters that is chiefly associated with aggression. Activation of both affective (emotionally driven) and predatory aggression is accomplished by dopamine (Elliot, 2000)."

• Personality disorders
  "Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD), Conduct Disorder (CD), and Oppositional Defiance Disorder (ODD) are three of the more prominent disorders that have been shown to have a relationship with later adult behavior (Holmes, Slaughter, & Kashani, 2001)."

• Genes and environment
  "it is very possible that disorders relating to such chemicals as serotonin and dopamine could be caused by stressful environmental situations. If environment affects the regulation of gene expression and, in turn, the activity of neurotransmitters that modulate behavior, this kind of interaction may be a significant factor in the development of criminal and antisocial behavior."

As you can see there is lots of interesting stuff that could be used to understand and portray Raph's violent impulses.

[Sabacooza]

Originally Posted by Werecat

For awhile I have been thinking that the focus on Leo or Leatherhead's rage is detrimental to Raph's character because it causes multiple characters to have a recurrent theme. The rage theme define Raph's character and to make it repetitive and dull will hurt Raphael's character as well.

Raph needs some elaboration on his violent impulses; an elaboration that explains that Raph's rage runs deeper and is more of a genetic mutation than PTSD. The creators of TMNT even wrote drafts and comics that depict Raphael's further descend into madness by making his second mutation more monstrous. I think it would help the flow of future episodes if Raphael's rage is a genetic mutation; it would maintain his defined characteristic while informing the audience that he is not some character that forgets previous learned lessons.

The genetic factor could also be used as a way to explore the genetic side of aggression. There are research articles/documentaries that show that violent impulses have to do more with genetic/environment variables than previous thoughts of rage being caused from lack of sex or other trivial things(which is silly).

Researching the mind of killers could also be a great way to understand how violent impulses are caused. Just read the case of Charles Whitman or something for an idea of aggression. I am not saying to make Raph a serial killer but to research subjects who have had overwhelming violent impulses then use it as a reference to thouroughly flesh out Raph's violent impulses.

http://brainmind.com/Case5.html
Teh charles whitman article has great diary entries that express his thoughts. Elaine Fuess had this to say about him:
"Even when he looked perfectly normal, he gave you the feeling of trying to control something in himself. He knew he had a temper, and he hated this in himself. He hated the idea of cruelty in himself and tried to suppress it."

Silly Edmund Kemper interview in spoiler.

Spoiler:

Around 15min he explains a situation were the urge to kill is beyond his control, some killers have the same view on it. The original Raphael expressed in some comics that the urge to kill is overwhelming and it scares him. The Charles whitman article above previews one of his diary entries that attempts to explain the fear and the helplessness of having cruelty within oneself. As you can see there is more behind violent impulses.

http://www.personalityresearch.org/papers/jones.html
This is an article that explores the potential causes of violent impulses. The cause of aggression or criminal behaviour may be the cause of:

• Neurochemicals
  "Dopamine is a neurotransmitter in the brain that is associated with pleasure and is also one of the neurotransmitters that is chiefly associated with aggression. Activation of both affective (emotionally driven) and predatory aggression is accomplished by dopamine (Elliot, 2000)."

• Personality disorders
  "Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD), Conduct Disorder (CD), and Oppositional Defiance Disorder (ODD) are three of the more prominent disorders that have been shown to have a relationship with later adult behavior (Holmes, Slaughter, & Kashani, 2001)."

• Genes and environment
  "it is very possible that disorders relating to such chemicals as serotonin and dopamine could be caused by stressful environmental situations. If environment affects the regulation of gene expression and, in turn, the activity of neurotransmitters that modulate behavior, this kind of interaction may be a significant factor in the development of criminal and antisocial behavior."

As you can see there is lots of interesting stuff that could be used to understand and portray Raph's violent impulses.

That's all fine and dandy but I don't want Raph's anger issues shoved down my throat like that's all there is to the character. People that are hot blooded aren't these evil monsters that everyone needs to avoid. When they're passionate about something, they can express themselves in a way that may seem aggresive or confrontational. Raph is certainly a passionate guy and he doesn't hold it in and has a hard time dialing it back. Should his anger be explored? Of course but let us see other sides to him as well just like I would like to see other sides to Mikey. They don't need to bash us over the head so hard that he's a goofball.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by Sabacooza

That's all fine and dandy but I don't want Raph's anger issues shoved down my throat like that's all there is to the character. People that are hot blooded aren't these evil monsters that everyone needs to avoid. When they're passionate about something, they can express themselves in a way that may seem aggresive or confrontational. Raph is certainly a passionate guy and he doesn't hold it in and has a hard time dialing it back. Should his anger be explored? Of course but let us see other sides to him as well just like I would like to see other sides to Mikey. They don't need to bash us over the head so hard that he's a goofball.

This is why I wished they would just bring in the Nightwatcher alter ego in. So many stories could be told where he's just out and about, and just happens to come across some trouble, and for once, it's not because of his anger. Maybe they could bring in the story where, he becomes leader of one of the gangs (instead of The Foot, maybe it's the Purple Gang or, maybe a new gang that can be invented by the show's creators)

[Werecat]

Originally Posted by Sabacooza

That's all fine and dandy but I don't want Raph's anger issues shoved down my throat like that's all there is to the character. People that are hot blooded aren't these evil monsters that everyone needs to avoid. When they're passionate about something, they can express themselves in a way that may seem aggresive or confrontational. Raph is certainly a passionate guy and he doesn't hold it in and has a hard time dialing it back. Should his anger be explored? Of course but let us see other sides to him as well just like I would like to see other sides to Mikey. They don't need to bash us over the head so hard that he's a goofball.

I am guessing you never actually read the articles of the people who have been described as passionate and caring people. The problem is Raph's defining characteristic is his rage and to make one component greater will ultimately leave us with a husk of a character (which we are dealing with Nick Raph). The stuff I shared showed more insight on people with overwhelming violent impulses; they are often charming, caring, likable people plagued by violent impulses.

[Splinter the boss]

Originally Posted by Sabacooza

Yeah, it kind of was a Leo only club. They don't have a desire to learn it because that's the way it was written. It could have been written any number of ways. Why not show it like you stated above with Raph's lack of patience, Mikey's lack of focus and Donnie not believing it. Yes, Leo picking it up would've still came off as him being the best but would've lessened the blow if all the others were included and at least tried to do it. It just seemed a lot like favoritism to me.

Leo saved the day in Clash of the Mutanimals and in Deadly Venom and got praised both times. It was too soon with only one episode in between so it came off as a Leo love fest. If it were spread out, maybe it would've been more tolerable. I found it very unsatisfying that at the end of the Clash of the Mutanimals they all talked about the mutanimals being under mind control and nothing of Raph being under mind control, their own brother, like it didn't even matter. What was up with that?

I've heard "have patience" before when I was flipping out about the Dark Raph episode before it even aired and look how that turned out. I'd like to think these last 8 episodes have a lot more in store for Raph but yeah, I'd bet the bank that it's not going to happen.

Judging from what I've seen so far, I'd say it's the later.


See, I could probably forgive what happened in season 3 if they make it up by giving season 4 to Raph and season 5 to Mikey. If there is no season 5 then give season 4 to both Raph and Mikey. Like you said, Season 2 seemed more Donnie centric and season 3 was more Leo centric. Either way, I'd like to see more happening with Raph and Mikey.

As far as the whole crack in the shell thing goes, maybe we'll get it. Maybe we won't. Look what happened to Mutagen Man being a major part of season 2. I'm not too hopeful.

Yeah, he has changed. There's a lot less of him and a lot less character development so I can't see how you can come to the conclusion that he is getting more character/ central focus. Yes, he was handled very well in the first episode of season 3 with him watching over, comforting and lifting leo's spirits but that was only one episode and then he was captured, turned into a dog plant and then a flower. Him being shoved to the side, being the damsel in distress became the norm after that but hey, if that's what you believe, no harm, no foul.

Alright I know he has been kind to Leo and really supportive but come on, weren't we all expecting that? Raphael has been bitter to Leo in season 1, sure he got better in season 2 but he was still a rebel. So I think I like the way he is now, being supportive of his leader.

[Sabacooza]

Originally Posted by Splinter the boss

Alright I know he has been kind to Leo and really supportive but come on, weren't we all expecting that? Raphael has been bitter to Leo in season 1, sure he got better in season 2 but he was still a rebel. So I think I like the way he is now, being supportive of his leader.

I'd hardly call what you're talking about as Raph getting character/central focus like Donnie, Leo and sometimes Mikey has had. Has Raph had a decent amount of episodes to himself? No.

Originally Posted by Werecat

I am guessing you never actually read the articles of the people who have been described as passionate and caring people. The problem is Raph's defining characteristic is his rage and to make one component greater will ultimately leave us with a husk of a character (which we are dealing with Nick Raph). The stuff I shared showed more insight on people with overwhelming violent impulses; they are often charming, caring, likable people plagued by violent impulses.

I just read the articles and I still stand by what I said. I'm an antisocial person with a firey temper from time to time so I guess that means I'm going to go out and kill someone or commit a crime. I never committed a crime in my life. I'd be too afraid of the consequences. Yes there are truely nuts and crazy people out there but not all people with anger issues commit crimes or murder people.

I do not want to see Raph's anger issues constantly drumed into my head because there's much more to the character than that. As I said before, I don't mind exploring his anger further but I don't want him to become a caricature of himself with the anger which is what Nick seems to be doing. Maybe you're also saying Raph needs more layers. If so, I agree.