If "Night of the Rogues" was done differently

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Yabuturtle

Even though Zack, April and Irma can't fight, Casey and Splinter can. Chrome Dome was defeated. So now it was even as it was 6 against 6 so the Rogues would have a tougher time beating them this time. I kind of wish it was a two parter so you could see 6 heroes and 6 villains duke it out in the city.

Zack at least thought he could fight...

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Hell, I even brought up the Maltese Hamster in that post, an episode where Shredder literally built a machine that sucks up antiques in order to get a hamster figurine. The show wasn't just silly at times, it was balls to the walls insane with silliness.

What's even weirder is that machine had a setting for men's underwear.

[Yabuturtle]

lol Yes he thought he could, but I don't it going well with him against 6 villains. xD

Turtles might have actually won this rematch with the addition of someone really strong like Casey and someone who's even more skilled in fighting and wisdom like Splinter. Too bad we never saw it.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Yabuturtle

lol Yes he thought he could, but I don't is going well with him against 6 villains. xD

Turtles might have actually won this rematch with the addition of someone really strong like Casey and someone who's even more skilled in fighting and wisdom like Splinter. Too bad we never saw it.

That was my biggest issue with the episode. It does show the limited human friends and enemies the turtles have due to who was used to help the turtles. Splinter, Casey, and Usagi or Mondo with the TMNT for a 7 on 7 would be one of the top missed opportunities within the entire series run. Fans of all ages would want to see that battle royale!

[Yabuturtle]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

That was my biggest issue with the episode. It does show the limited human friends and enemies the turtles have due to who was used to help the turtles. Splinter, Casey, and Usagi or Mondo with the TMNT for a 7 on 7 would be one of the top missed opportunities within the entire series run. Fans of all ages would want to see that battle royale!

I forget, can Mondo fight well in the 87 cartoon? I know Usagi can as he's REALLY skilled and nearly defeated all 4 Turtles when they first fought until he was caught off guard with a pizza to the face from Mikey. xD

I know Raph is supposed to learn his lesson but I figured he could have learned it another way. By accepting help from people like Casey Jones. Really Irma and April were just kind of there and didn't help much except April called Casey Jones for help and Zack was sort of useful, finding out where the Turtles were located and rescued the Turtles

But to me, it didn't make sense that the Turtles tried to take them on for a 2nd time. They were easily defeated the first time, what made them think they'd win this time? I felt this should have been the moment where they enlisted help from Casey, Splinter and Usagi and we could have seen a 7 against 7 battle in the city. I mean it was cool to see those villains together and imagine Usagi returning once more. It's a shame he didn't appear very often. This would have been a great season finale.

[Wesley]

Originally Posted by Yabuturtle

They sometimes did get defeated easily, but in some way it's interesting to see heroes struggle, rather than just effortlessly defeat villains. It is understandable they were defeated easily here as they were outnumbered by 3. Chrome Dome alone is tough for the Turtles to defeat and Tempestra can be brutal with her weather powers. Adding 5 more villains on top of that is just overwhelming.

Tempestra thought it wasn't worth it since they weren't getting paid, but the odds were more in the Turtles favor. Even though Zack, April and Irma can't fight, Casey and Splinter can. Chrome Dome was defeated. So now it was even as it was 6 against 6 so the Rogues would have a tougher time beating them this time. I kind of wish it was a two parter so you could see 6 heroes and 6 villains duke it out in the city.

It's good for heroes to have a challenge alright. I agree that it was understandable that the turtles were defeated easily in this episode, as they were outnumbered and outmatched. Retreating was the turtles' best option, but I thought they were still captured easily when they fought a second time. The turtles should have asked for help from their allies like Usagi when they were beaten the first time.

[Yabuturtle]

Originally Posted by Wesley

It's good for heroes to have a challenge alright. I agree that it was understandable that the turtles were defeated easily in this episode, as they were outnumbered and outmatched. Retreating was the turtles' best option, but I thought they were still captured easily when they fought a second time. The turtles should have asked for help from their allies like Usagi when they were beaten the first time.

It does make sense to get help from Usagi, Casey and Splinter and this time it'd be even and they'd stand a much better chance of defeating the Rogues. The main problem in the 2nd fight was that they split up and were still outnumbered. The Rogues struck multiple areas but really they all should have tried to save April and the others first.

Raph and Don tried to take on Leatherhead, Scumbug and Tempestra, Mikey took on Rat King and Slash by himself and Leo tried to take Antrax and Chrome Dome by himself. Well at least he kicked Antrax in the face. xD But didn't last long against Chrome Dome. Really you think they'd be able to take down Chrome Dome, if Chrome Dome still had the same weakness as he did before. But really they should have called Usagi, Casey and Splinter before they took them on again. And it'd make a more interesting episode.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Yabuturtle

It does make sense to get help from Usagi, Casey and Splinter and this time it'd be even and they'd stand a much better chance of defeating the Rogues. The main problem in the 2nd fight was that they split up and were still outnumbered. The Rogues struck multiple areas but really they all should have tried to save April and the others first.

Raph and Don tried to take on Leatherhead, Scumbug and Tempestra, Mikey took on Rat King and Slash by himself and Leo tried to take Antrax and Chrome Dome by himself. Well at least he kicked Antrax in the face. xD But didn't last long against Chrome Dome. Really you think they'd be able to take down Chrome Dome, if Chrome Dome still had the same weakness as he did before. But really they should have called Usagi, Casey and Splinter before they took them on again. And it'd make a more interesting episode.

Mondo was next door, Metalhead was collecting dust in Donatello's lab, and Usagi still had not ben returned home despite the misleading episode title, "Usagi Go Home" never to be used after his second appearance. I don't care if there was a moral to the story about trusting humans or not. They do not have many human friends that can fight alongside them. Then there is the fact both Zack and later Carter suck.

It was shown that the group united because Shredder was going to pay them with treasure fro ma space pirate. How are any of them aside from Rat King going to be able to spend it? Even in the Rat King's case when he were to present it instead of cash how would the person he is buying something from react? Why not The Rogues Strike Back, in other words they do it because they want to kill the turtles?! It is the restraints of it being 22 minutes long and having a specific episode order making Wise unable to stretch it out.

Also, I would have liked to had Groundchuck and Dirtbag available for this gathering in space or not as Slash was there and he was as well. So make it Rat King, Slash, Leatherhead, General Tragg, Antrax, Chrome Dome, and Groundchuck, and Dirtbag. The turtles would be outnumbers 2 to 1.

[Yabuturtle]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

Mondo was next door, Metalhead was collecting dust in Donatello's lab, and Usagi still had not ben returned home despite the misleading episode title, "Usagi Go Home" never to be used after his second appearance. I don't care if there was a moral to the story about trusting humans or not. They do not have many human friends that can fight alongside them. Then there is the fact both Zack and later Carter suck.

It was shown that the group united because Shredder was going to pay them with treasure fro ma space pirate. How are any of them aside from Rat King going to be able to spend it? Even in the Rat King's case when he were to present it instead of cash how would the person he is buying something from react? Why not The Rogues Strike Back, in other words they do it because they want to kill the turtles?! It is the restraints of it being 22 minutes long and having a specific episode order making Wise unable to stretch it out.

Also, I would have liked to had Groundchuck and Dirtbag available for this gathering in space or not as Slash was there and he was as well. So make it Rat King, Slash, Leatherhead, General Tragg, Antrax, Chrome Dome, and Groundchuck, and Dirtbag. The turtles would be outnumbers 2 to 1.

It was alien treasure an aliens like Antrax would use it but really most of them don't have a great use for treasure. we know Chrome Dome doesn't since he's a robot. Maybe once the internet was invented, people with frightening appearances like Scumbug and Leatherhead would buy stuff online? :3 I'm surprised Leatherhead and Rat King worked together since they were known to hate each other. I'm surprised Shredder didn't join in the fight just so he could overwhelm the Turtles. He's still a competent fighter after all. General Tragg would have been cool to see.

I found it amusing Krang's minions are known to be loyal and you try to see Antrax kill Krang because he didn't get paid and he's supposed to be Krang's loyal executioner though.

[Wesley]

Originally Posted by Yabuturtle

It was alien treasure an aliens like Antrax would use it but really most of them don't have a great use for treasure. we know Chrome Dome doesn't since he's a robot. Maybe once the internet was invented, people with frightening appearances like Scumbug and Leatherhead would buy stuff online? :3 I'm surprised Leatherhead and Rat King worked together since they were known to hate each other. I'm surprised Shredder didn't join in the fight just so he could overwhelm the Turtles. He's still a competent fighter after all. General Tragg would have been cool to see.

I found it amusing Krang's minions are known to be loyal and you try to see Antrax kill Krang because he didn't get paid and he's supposed to be Krang's loyal executioner though.

I'm surprised that Shredder didn't fight the turtles as well. I thought he would've liked to see the them get beaten hard. Shreeka could've been used, though Shredder did try to steal her energy ring.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Wesley

I'm surprised that Shredder didn't fight the turtles as well. I thought he would've liked to see the them get beaten hard. Shreeka could've been used, though Shredder did try to steal her energy ring.

No, she may like the treasure more so than the other villains she would not work with Shredder after her encounter with them. As mentioned before she and Beserko should team up. I do not see her working with anyone else. It is the same reason Baxter the Fly would not appear in such a set up.

[Yabuturtle]

Originally Posted by Wesley

I'm surprised that Shredder didn't fight the turtles as well. I thought he would've liked to see the them get beaten hard. Shreeka could've been used, though Shredder did try to steal her energy ring.

It would have been nice to see her again. She may not work with Shredder but then I didn't think Leatherhead and Rat King would team up either since they both fought each other and hate each other but I guess put aside their differences to become rich.

Maybe being rich makes it easy to rule, as Antrax said. "Now we don't have to conquer the city! We can buy it!" Plus Krang could use the vast wealth he has to entice just about anyone to work for him, like Shredder used the treasure to entice the Rogues.

I guess really all Shredder has to do is overwhelm the Turtles through numbers. It didn't take long to defeat the turtles by being outnumbered by 3. If Shredder and Krang joined in (especially if Krang could turn giant) the Turtles would definitely lose unless they got help.

It actually would be cool to see the Rouges return in the Red Sky Season 8, and they'd have a rematch but it'd be darker and more serious, and Splinter, Casey and Usagi could return. Maybe Beserko or Megavolt could play a part.

[MikeandRaph87]

If you recall Rat King and Leatherhead while hating each other as displayed in Leatherhead Meets The Rat King they were willing to work together in Splinter Vanishes in order to kill the turtles. So they can work together in the short-term for a common cause.

Overwhelm with numbers is all any set of villains has to do. Why would Lord Zedd send down one monster at a time? He could send down sixty in six different locations and one on ten, the villain easily wins and conquers the world. Why not have a cohesive battle strategy to fight Spider-Man instead of the Sinister Six usually attacking him one by one? If Venom, Doc Ock, and Green Goblin were together and willing to do whatever to kill Peter without any ego trips then Spider-Man is a gonner. Same here. Keep all seven villains, add Tragg, Shredder, and Krang in a fully weaponized android suit able to work together cohesively then the turtles and Splinter are as good as dead.

[Wesley]

Originally Posted by Yabuturtle

It would have been nice to see her again. She may not work with Shredder but then I didn't think Leatherhead and Rat King would team up either since they both fought each other and hate each other but I guess put aside their differences to become rich.

Maybe being rich makes it easy to rule, as Antrax said. "Now we don't have to conquer the city! We can buy it!" Plus Krang could use the vast wealth he has to entice just about anyone to work for him, like Shredder used the treasure to entice the Rogues.

I guess really all Shredder has to do is overwhelm the Turtles through numbers. It didn't take long to defeat the turtles by being outnumbered by 3. If Shredder and Krang joined in (especially if Krang could turn giant) the Turtles would definitely lose unless they got help.

It actually would be cool to see the Rouges return in the Red Sky Season 8, and they'd have a rematch but it'd be darker and more serious, and Splinter, Casey and Usagi could return. Maybe Beserko or Megavolt could play a part.

It would've been nice to see the Rouges return in season 8. I think they might have returned if that season had been longer, though Shredder mightn't have been interested in gathering them up after the Rat King turned on him in Wrath of the Rat King.

[Yabuturtle]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

If you recall Rat King and Leatherhead while hating each other as displayed in Leatherhead Meets The Rat King they were willing to work together in Splinter Vanishes in order to kill the turtles. So they can work together in the short-term for a common cause.

Overwhelm with numbers is all any set of villains has to do. Why would Lord Zedd send down one monster at a time? He could send down sixty in six different locations and one on ten, the villain easily wins and conquers the world. Why not have a cohesive battle strategy to fight Spider-Man instead of the Sinister Six usually attacking him one by one? If Venom, Doc Ock, and Green Goblin were together and willing to do whatever to kill Peter without any ego trips then Spider-Man is a gonner. Same here. Keep all seven villains, add Tragg, Shredder, and Krang in a fully weaponized android suit able to work together cohesively then the turtles and Splinter are as good as dead.

Usagi, Casey and the 4 Punk Frogs could help turn the tides a little bit. I am surprised that while Shredder was in Dimension X recruiting minions, he didn't bother to bring General Tragg but instead brought Antrax. Antrax is Krang's executioner, but you'd think he'd bring the more well known and more powerful General Tragg with him. Not to mention he should have brought a few Rock Soldiers just for good measure. Maybe we could have seen Lt. Granitor again.

Sometimes it is difficult for villains to work together. They might insult each other, try take over the position as "leader" and many are willing to betray one another if it's to their advantage, either to usurp the position of leader, or they feel like they don't need an alliance and see each other as "competition". Sometimes this is how the heroes win, when the villains turn against each other and are too distracted to focus on beating the heroes. They all only worked together in the promise of treasure. But still it makes me wonder why Shredder didn't try to recruit to begin with or why he didn't join in and give the Turtles an even harder time.

Maybe Shredder's just lazy. xD Sometimes he'll just run away even though he's still a competent fighter.