Ot/ modern toon crossover

[shredder orokusaki]

I want to see the Kraang team up with the 80 Krang to defeat the turtles! Cant wait for it!!!

[ZariusTwo]

The gang haven't missed a beat

[Allio]

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

From the look of the animatic, the OT turtles will be competent and sane this time, thankfully. Unlike turtles forever.

Hey, I know! For this special, let's portray the 2k3 turtles and all dark and super-duper serious and gritty edgy ninjas who can't even laugh at a joke, and make mirage TMNT so dark and grim, that anytime there's laughter or fun or color or light, they curl up into little balls groaning and screaming in pain like fun is their kryptonite, and they start to go crazy if they have to go five minutes without killing something! That's why they live in a black and white world, and narrate and monologue to themselves like crazy people!

Teen Titans Go already did that, and they were both pretty bad..."lets get serious" was "alright" but "Return of Slade" was worse.

as for Turtles Forever, sure the Turtles were exaggerated (though they did have great moments) but Shredder/Krang/Bebop/Rocksteady were easily still in character....and I believe those four are all that mattered.

Also, have you guys forgotten Tigerclaw kicked all four ot turtles' shells?

[myconius]

Originally Posted by Etsyturtle2

So, it's confirmed that it is happening. What do you think? Is it a cheap idea? Is it kind of cliche after turtles forever? Post what you think about the crossover, what you hope for it, and what cannot happen in it. Should we include the 2003 turtles? Just, talk it out here I guess. I'm curious to see other peoples thoughts on this.

i think it's awesome since they actually went through the trouble of hiring the original actors from the OT series!

i have a feeling this will be MUCH better than Turtles Forever in that regard.

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

From the look of the animatic, the OT turtles will be competent and sane this time, thankfully. Unlike turtles forever.

Hey, I know! For this special, let's portray the 2k3 turtles and all dark and super-duper serious and gritty edgy ninjas who can't even laugh at a joke, and make mirage TMNT so dark and grim, that anytime there's laughter or fun or color or light, they curl up into little balls groaning and screaming in pain like fun is their kryptonite, and they start to go crazy if they have to go five minutes without killing something! That's why they live in a black and white world, and narrate and monologue to themselves like crazy people!

AMEN!!!!!!

[BubblyShell22]

So stoked for this. I agree that having the original VAs makes all the difference. TF was okay, but not having the original VAs kind of ruined it for me. I still liked it though and thought they did a good job bringing the Mirage Turtles in, too. I think this crossover will be fine and don't see what the big deal is. The Nick crew has already shown they have respect for what came before, so they'll do a good job with it.

[kelligrafie]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

So you don't like good writing? It wasn't just a good TMNT show, it was one of the best action-cartoons of the 2000's in general.

Or maybe they just didn't like it.

This is what pisses me off about a lot (note: I said a lot, not all) of 2003 fans is that they can't get it through their skulls that some people just don't like the series. Irrespective of why; be it the animation style, the voices, the way the characters are portrayed etc. all that happens is you get instantly shot down.

Your loyalty to the franchise is questioned, your intelligence is questioned, your ability to recognise quality writing material is questioned.

I love 2012 but I understand that some TMNT fans wouldn't. I get it.

Some people don't like how April is Mary Sue 50% of the time and 50% the turtles' only true psychic saviour with her mystic powers.
Some people don't like the animation style and prefer the cartoons where the turtles are 2D.
Some people prefer reading comics to watching the shows so they can imagine the turtles' voices for themselves.

That's cool. That's fine. And you know what else is fine? NOT liking the 2003 series.




Getting ON topic. Stoked for this crossover episode.

[Skinrash]

Originally Posted by Autbot_Benz

they gave you an official source it was announced at NYCC They even showed you storyboards of the scene

TMNT Master ‏@TMNTMaster Oct 13

Sneak peek of the 80's/2012 #TMNT crossover episode storyboard. Can't wait for Season 4!!! http://tmnt.tumblr.com/post/13110022...tle2012-turtle …

http://i59.tinypic.com/102o8pt.png

A claim was made with no official link to back it up along with a picture by a unspecified artist. This is the first link to a trustworthy source I have been given so far.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Originally Posted by kelligrafie

Or maybe they just didn't like it.

This is what pisses me off about a lot (note: I said a lot, not all) of 2003 fans is that they can't get it through their skulls that some people just don't like the series. Irrespective of why; be it the animation style, the voices, the way the characters are portrayed etc. all that happens is you get instantly shot down.

Your loyalty to the franchise is questioned, your intelligence is questioned, your ability to recognise quality writing material is questioned.

I love 2012 but I understand that some TMNT fans wouldn't. I get it.

Some people don't like how April is Mary Sue 50% of the time and 50% the turtles' only true psychic saviour with her mystic powers.
Some people don't like the animation style and prefer the cartoons where the turtles are 2D.
Some people prefer reading comics to watching the shows so they can imagine the turtles' voices for themselves.

That's cool. That's fine. And you know what else is fine? NOT liking the 2003 series.




Getting ON topic. Stoked for this crossover episode.

It's a lot like Batman fanboys that flip out if they find that you're a Batman fan who doesn't like Batman: The Animated Series, lol.

[Wildcat]

I'm excited. That clip was good but the Nick turtles being surprised by them doesn't really make sense because they've seen them before when they looked through the portal and Mikey says something like...why do we look like dorks?

I forgot exactly what he said.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Wildcat

I'm excited. That clip was good but the Nick turtles being surprised by them doesn't really make sense because they've seen them before when they looked through the portal and Mikey says something like...why do we look like dorks?

I forgot exactly what he said.

I think it's more the length of time it's been since Wormquake. They have likely forgotten that there is another dimension where they exist. That and from the sound of the clip, the shift in dimensions may have been sudden so it's possible that they couldn't mentally process which dimension they had been brought too.

[kelligrafie]

It's a shame they didn't drop April into the 80's world too.

When Raphael says he can't even see his own butt, they could've had April saying she could still see hers in a nod to the folk that kicked off about her being oversexualised by the crew. The same folk that made no remark whatsoever about the close up on Casey's crotch when he got wanged in the nuts by Hun.

[Wildcat]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

I think it's more the length of time it's been since Wormquake. They have likely forgotten that there is another dimension where they exist. That and from the sound of the clip, the shift in dimensions may have been sudden so it's possible that they couldn't mentally process which dimension they had been brought too.

Seeing other living versions of yourself is not something you just happen to forget.

I can understand being shocked that they're suddenly in a different environment but not that they have zero recollection of the ot turtles.

Maybe the Nick turtles will mention something like...hey now I remember, I saw you in the portal. At least that would fit.

[kelligrafie]

Originally Posted by Wildcat

Seeing other living versions of yourself is not something you just happen to forget.

I can understand being shocked that they're suddenly in a different environment but not that they have zero recollection of the ot turtles.

Maybe the Nick turtles will mention something like...hey now I remember, I saw you in the portal. At least that would fit.

To be fair though, how long were they actually looking in the 80's portal. Less than thirty seconds. You wouldn't have their faces in your memory forever. You'd need to see them for longer on numerous occasions to get a proper sort of mental imprint.

[Aaronardo]

Originally Posted by kelligrafie

Or maybe they just didn't like it.

This is what pisses me off about a lot (note: I said a lot, not all) of 2003 fans is that they can't get it through their skulls that some people just don't like the series. Irrespective of why; be it the animation style, the voices, the way the characters are portrayed etc. all that happens is you get instantly shot down.

Your loyalty to the franchise is questioned, your intelligence is questioned, your ability to recognise quality writing material is questioned.

I hate to dig up this convo, but I'm legitimately interested in what it was about the 2003 series that some people seem to not like. I've heard time and time again, "I don't like the 2003 series", and never have I heard a full-on, thought-provoking response saying exactly what they didn't like about the series. I'm not one to immediately shoot down one's opinion simply because I don't agree with it, but I will when I don't get something more than "the 2003 series is garbage". Even the reasons you've given, I can't seem to understand. What about the animation style is bad? Which characters are portrayed badly and in what way?

I mean, if we're just talking about the last three seasons, I totally get that. Plenty of improvement to be had there. But other than that, I would like to know the answers to those questions I have given. Not necessarily trying to come off as smug or rude, I'm just legitimately curious as to what exactly makes people so annoyed about the 2003 series.

(OT: I do love how much more in-character the OT Turtles are here than in Turtles Forever. I mean, I loved Turtles Forever, but something was always off to me about that version of the OT Turtles, and now I understand why )

[Wildcat]

Originally Posted by kelligrafie

To be fair though, how long were they actually looking in the 80's portal. Less than thirty seconds. You wouldn't have their faces in your memory forever. You'd need to see them for longer on numerous occasions to get a proper sort of mental imprint.

There would still be some familiarity. Especially something so astonishing. I mean we remember a bunch of mundane things. Even from years in the past.

I just think it's weird that the that portal scene would be totally forgotten. Not that it would ruin the episode if they don't acknowledge it...but still.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Aaronardo

I hate to dig up this convo, but I'm legitimately interested in what it was about the 2003 series that some people seem to not like. I've heard time and time again, "I don't like the 2003 series", and never have I heard a full-on, thought-provoking response saying exactly what they didn't like about the series. I'm not one to immediately shoot down one's opinion simply because I don't agree with it, but I will when I don't get something more than "the 2003 series is garbage". Even the reasons you've given, I can't seem to understand. What about the animation style is bad? Which characters are portrayed badly and in what way?

I mean, if we're just talking about the last three seasons, I totally get that. Plenty of improvement to be had there. But other than that, I would like to know the answers to those questions I have given. Not necessarily trying to come off as smug or rude, I'm just legitimately curious as to what exactly makes people so annoyed about the 2003 series.

(OT: I do love how much more in-character the OT Turtles are here than in Turtles Forever. I mean, I loved Turtles Forever, but something was always off to me about that version of the OT Turtles, and now I understand why )

Generally speaking, a lot of people don't like how it intentionally ignores the Fred Wolf/Archie era in favor of adapting Mirage stories and creating entirely original concepts. It makes it a bit harder for them to re-connect with their nostalgia. There's also a less common type of critic who claim the Mirage material was "ruined" by reworking it into something more childfriendly.

I would disagree with both. I have no nostalgia for the Fred Wolf cartoon and I think it's pretty boring and sloppy so I don't even remotely care how much something has to do with it, I'm not going going to go in to more detail unless someone asks because this post could get too long. I liked reading the Mirage comics but I found them to be very flawed and a lot less adult oriented or serious than I was led to believe, so I actually thought the 4Kids series fixed a lot of the problems and I didn't think the maturity level was all that different to be honest.

Then there's of course people who don't like it on it's own merits. That just means it didn't connect with them for whatever reason, be it the writing, animation or whatever else. Typically it might be that making a show about mutant turtles with downplayed humor and long story arcs could easily end up looking bizarre to a lot of people. And that's fine, I don't expect everyone to get it.

[SKX31]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Then there's of course people who don't like it on it's own merits. That just means it didn't connect with them for whatever reason, be it the writing, animation or whatever else. Typically it might be that making a show about mutant turtles with downplayed humor and long story arcs could easily end up looking bizarre to a lot of people. And that's fine, I don't expect everyone to get it.

That angle is understandable. Given that most outside the fandom associate TMNT with FW, those with this image might not react too well to the arcs and the dark tone because they're used to a lighthearted franchise. I'm mainly focusing on those who remember Turtlemania, but others with this mental image count as well.

Of course, there are exceptions. Those who watched the 90 movie / read the comics are not going to be surprised this way because they know that the franchise can be dark.

But still, its hard to process if you have that mental image of a 80s sitcom cartoon where violence was a minor factor most of the time and the plots were ridicoulous. Then come back decades later and see Leo decapitate the Shredder?

Same goes if a non-TMNT fan comes back and watches the Nick cartoon - only to see Splinter die and a black hole bomb swallow Earth.

Yea, those plot points are (likely) non-permanent, but that's besides the point.

[Metalwolf]

Originally Posted by Aaronardo

I hate to dig up this convo, but I'm legitimately interested in what it was about the 2003 series that some people seem to not like. I've heard time and time again, "I don't like the 2003 series", and never have I heard a full-on, thought-provoking response saying exactly what they didn't like about the series. I'm not one to immediately shoot down one's opinion simply because I don't agree with it, but I will when I don't get something more than "the 2003 series is garbage".

Well, for me I could never get into it because I never liked that Shredder turned out to be an Utrom. Fred Wolf nostalgia aside, there is something more badass having a human defeat (or fight) the Turtles then an alien which you could always ascribe some sort of woo powers (like Nick April) and have it be an easy copout whenever stuff got tough. It's why I don't like April's powers either, it's like saying you have to be something extraordinary or you can't be awesome and win in a fight.

[srmff]

Originally Posted by Aaronardo

I hate to dig up this convo, but I'm legitimately interested in what it was about the 2003 series that some people seem to not like. I've heard time and time again, "I don't like the 2003 series", and never have I heard a full-on, thought-provoking response saying exactly what they didn't like about the series. I'm not one to immediately shoot down one's opinion simply because I don't agree with it, but I will when I don't get something more than "the 2003 series is garbage". Even the reasons you've given, I can't seem to understand. What about the animation style is bad? Which characters are portrayed badly and in what way?

I mean, if we're just talking about the last three seasons, I totally get that. Plenty of improvement to be had there. But other than that, I would like to know the answers to those questions I have given. Not necessarily trying to come off as smug or rude, I'm just legitimately curious as to what exactly makes people so annoyed about the 2003 series.

(OT: I do love how much more in-character the OT Turtles are here than in Turtles Forever. I mean, I loved Turtles Forever, but something was always off to me about that version of the OT Turtles, and now I understand why )

Some people didn't like the voice actors. They thought that the voice acting was bad but 4Kids was always limited. I wasn't too keen on them myself. People didn't like Raph's Brooklyn accent, Karai's 'stereotypical' accent and the fact that Splinter sounded like an young man trying to sound old.

Some people didn't like the characterisations. To some it seemed like they were trying too hard to seem gritty and extreme like Raph almost hitting Mikey with the crowbar which I think was actually from the comics. Then it being a cartoon they couldn't actually deliver and do it or it'd be too gritty. People felt that the show took itself too seriously. For some they seemed more like adults than teenagers. They also seemed to some to feel more like people living together than family. I found April and Casey bickering pretty annoying. People found Karai to be infuriating that she remained blind to how evil the Shredder was and blaming Leo.

Some didn't like the animation. It was too stiff and angular. The fight scenes didn't feel fluid enough. Also the fact that the turtles and Casey were made to be way too muscular.

Some people didn't like that the early seasons kept so close to Mirage and were altering it to make it suitable for children. They might not have liked the lack of creativity?

I personally didn't really like the first few episodes and found it hard to get into. I didn't really like the last two seasons for reasons many can guess. It was watchable but not great.

Some people didn't like the humour in the show. People didn't like the pseudo cursing like the infamous what the shell.

It was a good twist having Shredder be an utrom but I prefer him to be human. I also prefer to see Splinter acting more as a father figure than just a teacher. Some people prefer Splinter being human originally even though being a rat was true to the comics.

Unlike the Nick show, I really didn't like the filler episodes in 2003. I loathed the superhero episodes. There were a few episodes that just weren't great in the good seasons. The episodes that were supposed to be shocking ... just didn't shock me. I watched them when I was a child and I didn't actually remember those episodes like Insane in the Membrane and SAINW. I watched the series twice over with the exception of the last two seasons but I never got the hype. SAINW was in an alternate universe. It wasn't the future or anything. Maybe I was just desensitised as a child. I watched stuff that probably wasn't age appropriate. I was watching The Tudors when I was 9 (although that came out fours year after turtles started so I dunno). Tales of Leo was an episode that really stuck with me and I know Shredder's head being sliced off and then picking it up stuck with my brother.

You asked and I answered. Geez I sound really negative but I do actually like the series. I agree with some points to an extent. Look, I think that each version has its own flaws and merits and I've enjoyed watching every incarnation of the turtles. It just annoys some people that people make 2003 out to be undoubtedly the best with the best writing, characterisations, etc. and as someone else said if they don't like it, their intelligence is called into question. At the moment Nick is my favourite version unless it all goes downhill. We could have two seasons like FF and BTTS. I know that 2003 is my brother's favourite version.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by srmff

Some people didn't like the voice actors. They thought that the voice acting was bad but 4Kids was always limited. I wasn't too keen on them myself. People didn't like Raph's Brooklyn accent, Karai's 'stereotypical' accent and the fact that Splinter sounded like an young man trying to sound old.

Which I don't really get. The 4kids voices suited all the characters perfectly. Especially those incarnations of the Turtles.

Some didn't like the animation. It was too stiff and angular. The fight scenes didn't feel fluid enough. Also the fact that the turtles and Casey were made to be way too muscular.

This is bizarre. The 2k3 series had beautiful animation and fight scenes, some of the best for a 2000 era show. No idea what these people mean.

Some people didn't like that the early seasons kept so close to Mirage and were altering it to make it suitable for children. They might not have liked the lack of creativity?

Actually people loved the Mirage adaptions except for City at War.

I personally didn't really like the first few episodes and found it hard to get into. I didn't really like the last two seasons for reasons many can guess. It was watchable but not great.

The first season was probably the strongest season of cohesive episodes except for a few like the Monster Hunter or Garbageman.

Some people didn't like the humour in the show. People didn't like the pseudo cursing like the infamous what the shell.

\nlike the Nick show, I really didn't like the filler episodes in 2003. I loathed the superhero episodes. There were a few episodes that just weren't great in the good seasons. The episodes that were supposed to be shocking ... just didn't shock me. I watched them when I was a child and I didn't actually remember those episodes like Insane in the Membrane and SAINW. I watched the series twice over with the exception of the last two seasons but I never got the hype. SAINW was in an alternate universe. It wasn't the future or anything. Maybe I was just desensitised as a child. I watched stuff that probably wasn't age appropriate. I was watching The Tudors when I was 9 (although that came out fours year after turtles started so I dunno). Tales of Leo was an episode that really stuck with me and I know Shredder's head being sliced off and then picking it up stuck with my brother.

Some of the 2k3 fillers were poor, but it also had some great ones. Also almost all the important episodes were great sans a few.