The Official Venting/Whining/Criticism Thread!

[thundermaster612]

so Shredder legit killed Splinter
so why can the turtles legit kill Foot Soldiers or Triceratons like Fugitoid did...
(I feel like these days, TMNT is the only show on Nick that features killing... everything else is some stupid live action crap..)

[Splinter the boss]

Anyone ever wonder why the Kraang doesn't carry language transmitters like the Newtralizer and other aliens do? If they are that advanced, why struggle with English like this?

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

I know this is random...but was flipping through youtube and found that episode which I had not seen 'The Fourfold Trap'.

So...I say to myself "you know what? Maybe I've been harsh on this show. Let me give it another chance and be Fair."

And of course...it was an episode where Splinter talks about 'depending on each other' (for those who do not remember...it was the episode where Karai placed each of the Turtles in a trap).

Donnie comes up with an idea, which influences Leo.
Leo uses the machine in his trap to get to Raph.
Leo breaks open bricks to get Raph out.
Leo slices the bracelets (which are keeping Mikey down in his trap), saving Mikey.
Mikey takes off the device which is zapping into Donnie's brain.

Donnie, Leo, and Mikey all contributed something (in an episode which had Splinter talking about 'depending on one another').

Guess which one didn't contribute?

For whatever reasons, call it... fate. Call it luck. Call it karma, I believe everything happens for a reason. I believe that I was destined to see that episode.

In other words, I just found it ironic that when I tried to give it a chance, it just so happens to give yet another example of Raph's uselessness to both the team and this show (at least from the middle of Season 2 up until now).

And for those who are going to get mad? It's the 'venting/whining' thread. That's the purpose.

I quickly read through the opinions on the newest 'Mikey' episode. To those on there...at LEAST Mikey got to be the 'Rock Star of Dimension X' AND became the main reason (his knowledge, toughness, and just overall 'kicking everyone's ass' in that dimension) that the Turtles fixed the city from the Kraang Invasion last season.

Now...name one thing/one time that Raph has been useful, badass, or important to the team from the middle of Season 2 up into the new season? Please feel free.

In fact, if you think about it? Raph is the real reason why the Earth and all were destroyed in the first place.

If Raph never tried to control and use Zog in 'Dinosaur in the Sewers' (or 'pretend for a little bit' to save his shell, but then stopped it/destroyed it somehow or just listened to Leo...or anything else)...then Zog never would have used the Beacon.

No beacon would mean no signal to the other Triceratons, thus no Triceraton army, thus no 'Black Hole' (let alone needing 'Splinter and Shredder to team-up'...and thus no 'Death of Splinter').

Earth would still be 'invisible/unknown' to the Triceratons. The turtles, on a later date, would stop the Kraang. And that would be it (sure, it's not a sure thing...but nothing else).

It was still pretty much Raph's fault, though.

Bravo Raph...Nice one.

[Vicky82]

OMG, you actually watched an episode without someone watching it for you. yay let's celebrate

[Jephael]

Originally Posted by Ramboraph4life aka Matt

Raph is the real reason why the Earth and all were destroyed in the first place.

If Raph never tried to control and use Zog in 'Dinosaur in the Sewers' (or 'pretend for a little bit' to save his shell, but then stopped it/destroyed it somehow or just listened to Leo...or anything else)...then Zog never would have used the Beacon.

No beacon would mean no signal to the other Triceratons, thus no Triceraton army, thus no 'Black Hole' (let alone needing 'Splinter and Shredder to team-up'...and thus no 'Death of Splinter').

Earth would still be 'invisible/unknown' to the Triceratons. The turtles, on a later date, would stop the Kraang. And that would be it (sure, it's not a sure thing...but nothing else).

It was still pretty much Raph's fault, though.

Bravo Raph...Nice one.

Careful, you're gonna give the writers ideas for season 6.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

Originally Posted by Jephael

Careful, you're gonna give the writers ideas for season 6.

If they admitted it and gave Raph at least a little bit of realization and understanding of what part he played in it (was it on purpose? of course now...but at LEAST the realization that it was his fault), as well as regret for what happened thus leading to some kind of redemption? Then I would be both impressed and curious to watch the show again.

But it seems like I was the only one to notice that.

Again, think about it...when they were in the Statue of Liberty? They already won the fight and stopped the Kraang. And the Triceraton was trapped in a bubble.

It was Raph who went ahead (without listening to Leo...even though I THOUGHT the whole point of that whole 'Vision Quest' ep, for which he has the costume from, was to tame a bit of his hotheadness) and dragged Zog to the top. And he let Zog get his gear.

Thus...Zog hit the beacon, brought the army to Earth, and that led to destroying the whole world.

But it's like the writers didn't (and still haven't) even realized that.

If the writers had thought about that...then perhaps they could have brought some character development to Raphael (whether making him more crazy/insane/mad/angry...or go the opposite and making him more quiet, silent, tight-lipped, etc.). And yes, even for a cartoon (if they are going to go as far as to having Shredder stab/kill Splinter, then they could do other stuff).

But again, it's like the writers to this day don't realize what they're doing to this character.

[GoldMutant]

Originally Posted by Ramboraph4life aka Matt

So...you have anything constructive to type and post?

Dude, you must return, the hundreds of Raph fans depend on it!

I do agree on The Fourfold Trap; even though Raph was placed in a heating chamber and was dehydrated, I don't get why they had to make him a weakling yet again from that episode. It rubs me the wrong way, especially because half the episode is a flashback and nothing of substance is done other than rescue Karai.

As for Mikey I respectfully disagreed. Mikey shouldn't be celebrated for saving everyone from the Kraang; he toyed with that retromutagen for God knows what reason. It disgusted me as he served as a deus ex; as much as I hate Raph's development, Mikey is just as bad, if not worse. The only useful thing this season he even did was Attack of the Mega Shredder as a good reason as he saved the city besides Leo. Other than that, he's a destructive point to the team, serving no purpose outside plots sake or the . It absolutely disgusts me personally, he's more than that.

If you want one good moment or two, then I recommend The Pig and the Rhino or Casey vs the Underworld. I'm well aware in the former he gets his ass kicked by Steranko turned Rocksteady, but keep in mind the entire team was beaten to a pulp except for Mikey and Leo due to their location; hell Mikey was nearly thrown off the coaster. That episode had a small moment of Raph faking out Steranko with the retromutagen, ultimately assisting Leo in defeating Steranko on the coaster. The latter, while a personal biased episode to me, at least had Raph looking out for Casey before the latter went over his head. He does get to fight Xever and Rahzar too; other than those two instances, the third season isn't kind to Raph at all with the same complaints you have.

I needed to address that personally; while Raphael got no plot this season, there is the very rare times to shine. I respect your view though, but wanted to bring that up.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

Originally Posted by GoldMutant

D

As for Mikey I respectfully disagreed. Mikey shouldn't be celebrated for saving everyone from the Kraang; he toyed with that retromutagen for God knows what reason. It disgusted me as he served as a deus ex; as much as I hate Raph's development, Mikey is just as bad, if not worse.

I disagree with you about Mikey. Battle for New York Part 2 is the primary reason as to why. While in Dimension X? Mikey was the one who drove the Technodrome, got the Turtles there, knew everything about the environment/layout/creatures (just like his previous time in Dimension X), didn't cause/do anything wrong, didn't cause any trouble, blew back the 'Gilbert Gottfried' Kraang (with that sound thing which seems straight out of one of the 'sound weapons' from Dune), and was the Primary reason that the Turtles were victorious and brought the humans back into the city.

Mikey has never blown up the Earth because of his past mistake/screw-ups. Raph has...and the only episodes that he has starred in have been primarily about him fixing his own muck-ups (switched with a Kraang? Fixing his own screw-up. Battling Slash? Because he stupidly/accidentally mutated Spike AND told how much 'his brothers sucked' to his pet aka fixing his own mistake). Also did Raph even HAVE an episode in Season 3? Because i don't count 'getting taken and controlled for 2 minutes for Leo to save the day' as a Raph episode.

Feel free to disagree, but Mikey in Return to New York Part 2? At least he wasn't just 'fixing his own screw-up'...he was the Rock Star in that episode. Or even the episode where he met Mondo Gecko, he won that without the other Turtles' help. AND he saved Raph's life in The Croaking.

Raph on the other hand? Again, he is the reason why the Earth Blew Up in the Season 3 (because of his stupidity with Zog & the Beacon stuff, like I mentioned before).

Raph just sucks in this show. Plain and simple.

[Powder]

Stop watching it, then? I sure as hell didn't give Bayturtles a second viewing after having strongly negative views about it.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

Originally Posted by Powder

Stop watching it, then? I sure as hell didn't give Bayturtles a second viewing after having strongly negative views about it.

Perhaps because I actually did enjoy the first year and a half of the show...and I would Like for it to get better.

As well as just trying to understand what others see in the show (at least the later parts of this series)...

[ssjup81]

............

I completely forgot that Raph was the indirect reason the Triceratons managed to invade. Oh man, such a missed opportunity in that rage ep.

Leo could've snapped after Raph said Splinter favored Leo, a bit more bickering which would lead to Leo saying it was his fault Splinter and earth were desstroyed, etc., which would've gotten Raph back as opposed to the hug and his I love you. It still would've been an emotional move to snap him back.

[Ninturtle]

Originally Posted by Ramboraph4life aka Matt

I disagree with you about Mikey. Battle for New York Part 2 is the primary reason as to why. While in Dimension X? Mikey was the one who drove the Technodrome, got the Turtles there, knew everything about the environment/layout/creatures (just like his previous time in Dimension X), didn't cause/do anything wrong, didn't cause any trouble, blew back the 'Gilbert Gottfried' Kraang (with that sound thing which seems straight out of one of the 'sound weapons' from Dune), and was the Primary reason that the Turtles were victorious and brought the humans back into the city.

Mikey has never blown up the Earth because of his past mistake/screw-ups. Raph has...and the only episodes that he has starred in have been primarily about him fixing his own muck-ups (switched with a Kraang? Fixing his own screw-up. Battling Slash? Because he stupidly/accidentally mutated Spike AND told how much 'his brothers sucked' to his pet aka fixing his own mistake). Also did Raph even HAVE an episode in Season 3? Because i don't count 'getting taken and controlled for 2 minutes for Leo to save the day' as a Raph episode.

Feel free to disagree, but Mikey in Return to New York Part 2? At least he wasn't just 'fixing his own screw-up'...he was the Rock Star in that episode. Or even the episode where he met Mondo Gecko, he won that without the other Turtles' help. AND he saved Raph's life in The Croaking.

Raph on the other hand? Again, he is the reason why the Earth Blew Up in the Season 3 (because of his stupidity with Zog & the Beacon stuff, like I mentioned before).

Raph just sucks in this show. Plain and simple.

Raph had "Dinosaur Seen in Sewers".None of the mistakes you listed Raph doing were idiotic and could be very easy to do, how was Raph supposed to know Zog was planning on calling more Triceratons? Zog was super strong and it wasn't a bad idea to use him as a weapon, it didn't work out but it doesn't mean Raph was stupid for doing it. Just because Raph isn't a perfect character doesn't mean he's a bad one.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

Originally Posted by ssjup81

............

I completely forgot that Raph was the reason the Triceratons managed to invade. Oh man, such a missed opportunity in that rage ep.

Leo could've snapped after Raph said Splinter favored Leo, a bit more bickering which would lead to Leo saying it was his fault Splinter and earth were desstroyed, etc., which would've gotten Raph back as opposed to the hug and his I love you. It still would've been an emotional move to snap him back.

If the writers admitted or at least Realized on what they had wrote? Then I could AT LEAST could credit for that.

But it seems like they honestly do not know or realize that. Which I do not understand...

Originally Posted by Ninturtle

Raph had "Dinosaur Seen in Sewers".None of the mistakes you listed Raph doing were idiotic and could be very easy to do, how was Raph supposed to know Zog was planning on calling more Triceratons? Zog was super strong and it wasn't a bad idea to use him as a weapon, it didn't work out but it doesn't mean Raph was stupid for doing it. Just because Raph isn't a perfect character doesn't mean he's a bad one.

They had it won. Leo told Raph to stop in a scene beforehand or had at least given Raph a warning (which is why Raph apologized later on...like the Fifty Other times that this has happened. Plot Amnesia is a Huge Culprit on this show).

Raph didn't listen and brought Zog up to the top even though the fight was finished...and he wasn't paying attention when Zog suited up.

And hey, there thousands of 'wouldas, couldas, and shouldas'...of course Raph 'wouldn't have known'.

But the bottom line? Raph inadvertently helped cause the whole world to end. That IS what eventually happened...it's right there on the show.

He led Zog there even though Leo warned him and even though the fight was over. Wasn't paying attention to Zog, got knocked down/out for a tiny bit, and led to the beacon being turned on/invasion.

If Raph had kept Zog in the bubble, or had not taken Zog up with him (which was a stupid choice), then none of it would have happened.

There's a difference between not being a 'perfect' character and being one of the causes of The End of the World...which it seems Even The Writing Time doesn't even Realize.

At LEAST have the writers Acknowledge it.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by Ninturtle

Raph had "Dinosaur Seen in Sewers".None of the mistakes you listed Raph doing were idiotic and could be very easy to do, how was Raph supposed to know Zog was planning on calling more Triceratons? Zog was super strong and it wasn't a bad idea to use him as a weapon, it didn't work out but it doesn't mean Raph was stupid for doing it. Just because Raph isn't a perfect character doesn't mean he's a bad one.

Don't bother with him. Seriously.

[Ninturtle]

Originally Posted by Ramboraph4life aka Matt

The had it won. Leo told Raph to stop. Raph didn't listen and brought Zog up to the top even though the fight was finished...and he wasn't paying attention when Zog suited up.

And hey, there thousands of 'wouldas, couldas, and shouldas'...but the bottom line? Raph inadvertently helped cause the whole world to end. That IS what eventually happened...it's right there on the show.

He led Zog there even though Leo warned him and even though the fight was over. Wasn't paying attention to Zog, got knocked down/out for a tiny bit, and led to the beacon being turned on/invasion.

If Raph had kept Zog in the bubble, or had not taken Zog up with him (which was a stupid choice), then none of it would have happened.

There's a difference between not being a 'perfect' character and being one of the causes of The End of the World...which it seems Even The Writing Time doesn't even Realize.

I really do not get the defense that you're giving?

It makes sense for Raph to be rash, the characters been that way for a while. But it's not to unreal to see why Raph would want to bring a strong ally to fight the Kraang with him even if he's unstable.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

Originally Posted by Ninturtle

It makes sense for Raph to be rash, the characters been that way for a while. But it's not to unreal to see why Raph would want to bring a strong ally to fight the Kraang with him even if he's unstable.

Okay then. And at the end of the day, it DID help cause what happened in the Season 3 finale.

Originally Posted by Powder

Don't bother with him. Seriously.

I'm sorry...you mind telling me what the deal is? I gave my points. I didn't ridicule anybody. I'm posting in the correct forum aka the 'venting/whining' thread. And I'm discussing something that I just saw recently about the Nick Show because I WANTED to give it another shot. And on top of that, I'm asking honest and straight-forward questions about it.

So you tell me what the deal is...because I'm repeating the whole 'Raph argument'?

I gave new points, new notes of discussion, and again didn't ridicule or insult anyone. Or act like 'folks are beneath' me (like you're doing right now to me).

In Four Months (since September of last year) I only posted ONE other time. ONCE. So it's not an 'occurring/spamming thing'.

[Powder]

The point was simply that you don't budge from your stance & that it'd be a waste of his time. That's it.

Originally Posted by Ramboraph4life aka Matt

it's not an 'occurring/spamming thing'.

The fact you reiterated in a PM to me is pretty telling enough. Stoooop.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by Ninturtle

It makes sense for Raph to be rash, the characters been that way for a while. But it's not to unreal to see why Raph would want to bring a strong ally to fight the Kraang with him even if he's unstable.

I also feel that Raph was seeing Zog as a potential friend. You know, maybe Raph was also trying to replace "Spike".

I'm now wondering if they'll encounter him and how they'll have Raph react.

[Vegita-San]

I don't venture outside my own little area much, because I find online conversations these days to be more tiresome than not...

but....

I'm not a fan of nick tmnt. It's like 5 different people are running the show. is it a goofy kid show with gross out comedy? is it a horror series with weird whacked out monsters? is it continuous where plots get remembered, or day to day where things are reset next episode? is it a serious show, or a comedy?

this show has no sense of direction. the technodrome should have been a season long threat. instead, it gets brought up in one episode out of the clear blue. then vanishes until season 3. although I think there was one episode in season 2 that had it briefly as well.

the mutagen canisters where set up to be this big threat, then forgotten 9 episodes in. april's mother was a plot point for a while, then forgotten. Krang mentioning that the humans where mutants, with their evolution being changed by dimension x science when he was lumbering around NYC. all but forgotten the moment it was mentioned. the weakest baxter stockman ever showing up randomly. Karai all but forgotten. Shredder and his minions at times almost seem like an afterthought in this show since the Krang where the main villain. Tiger Claw should have had his own history show by now.

then you have these weird horror episodes. attack of the mega shredder. yawn. I don't think I even finished that one. again, the april and her mom episode, with her turning into a weird monster. the dream bears.

then you have these weird whacked out comedy episodes. the one with the mutant chicken farting eggs.....

then you have the rare episodes that actually feel like tmnt episodes. Baxters Gambit was one, where he traps them in a maze and the good guys and bad guys have to work together to get out. but these are too far and between.

That, coupled with the long ass breaks in between each episode. you get 4 episodes, and then 4 weeks off or more. it's VERY tough to try and get involved in a show when you can't even remember where it left off.

that being said, so far I am really enjoying season 4 far more than any other season. they seem to be sticking with things more... and something about the atmosphere just seems to make it more fun for some reason.

that being said, i'll probably stick with the series, but this is the first turtles series where I don't feel like going back and rewatching episodes. there is just no need to. it tries to be this grand thing..but when you go back and realize things never get resolved...it's like, eh...

And there also may be the fact that i'm just getting burned out on turtles. something I thought would never happen. about the only thing I look forward to is the IDW series. those guys, I think, get it far more than the animated guys and definitely more than the movie guys.

anyway, that's my worthless two cents.

[Foombamaroom]

This is my biggest problem with the show and its why I may stop watching it: There are SO MANY missed opportunities. They neglect Raph, Leo and Donnie are always front and center, Mikey's a dumbass, Casey's incompetent, and there is no emotion anymore. Even when Splinter DIED, you RARELY see the Turtles showing any reaction to it. 2003 Leo was pissed off for half of a season because Splinter ALMOST died and he failed. That was character development! "You were always Splinter's favorite." was GLOSSED OVER.

Another thing is that because of this, the arcs are now taking a toll. Remember when Karai got mutated? Remember when Leo got ambushed by the Foot? Remember when the Turtles got their ass handed to them by Shredder? NONE of those things had any actual consequences. Let's break it apart:

Episode 1x09, the Turtles go up against their biggest adversary, Shredder. What happens? He makes them into turtle soup. Were there any repercussions? Yeah, for like an episode. Did the Turtles fear Shredder rather than think of him as a joke? Nope. Hell, SHREDDER gets neglected in this show. Name the last time that there was tension in a fight with Shredder since this episode (Splinter and Shredder don't count.).

Episode 2x26: Leo's ambush. That is legit the BIGGEST ARC for Leo EVER. And what do we get? 7 episodes of filler with Leo moping around. And when he heals, there's no change. He's literally the same Leo. There's nothing about him wanting revenge against Shredder, there's no rivalry between him and Raph. Nope. It's just filler.

And that's the problem with this show: the filler. Season 3's entire back half was filler. The Triceratons felt SO RANDOM. Everyone praised the Season 3 finale, and I just kinda watched it and said, "Meh." There was no build up. I mean, yeah, the Splinter/Shredder thing was shocking as all **** (I'll get to that in a sec.), but that was it. The mind-worm thing? They could've done a whole City Fall/City at War arc with a Dark Raph. THAT WOULD'VE BEEN AMAZING. Instead we got this stupid Karai arc.

Now, here's what REALLY is making me mad because I knew it would happen. The first 6 episodes of Season 4 have been filler with little-to-no character development. Why is this a problem? Because Splinter died. That's the BIGGEST arc you could have in TMNT. Not only did he die, but he was murdered. Where's the rage they have?