Official Ep Discussion S4 Ep 10: Trans-Dimensional Turtles

[Etsyturtle2]

Did anyone else notice that in the OT dimension, every character had a shadow behind them, as if the background were just a painting behind them?

[cammy85]

Well, now we have an idea as to why OT Krang originally got banished form Dimension X in the first place. What a character!! It was great to see him fighting the Turtles for once.

The whole thing went too quickly but it was still great. Like Turtles Forever, you did have to pay attention to the show prior (which I admittedly haven't been) so you wouldn't get lost, especially since the series is still ongoing from here. Other than those problems, it was enjoyable seeing everyone back together again.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by Etsyturtle2

Did anyone else notice that in the OT dimension, every character had a shadow behind them, as if the background were just a painting behind them?

Yeah, it was a pretty nice touch.

[CyberCubed]

What was that stance Leonardo doing with his swords from, it was after he kicked Krang? I don't remember him ever doing that in the show.

[cryan]

The other thing about Turtles Forever was you didn't have the original voice actors like the y2k12 did. They got Pat Fraley, Townsend Colman and Cam Clarke to reprise their roles and they still delivered. Oh, and Rob was back in true form as 80's Raphael. The only thing with TF was how badly they ridiculed the 80's Turtles. I do agree the CG version of the 80's Turtles could have been fleshed out more. The 2d versions of the 2012 Turtles they were freakin adorable. I loved Mike's line when they find themselves in the 80's dimension "oh my gosh dudes we're in Pittsburgh"!!!

[TMNTInsighter]

Originally Posted by cryan

The other thing about Turtles Forever was you didn't have the original voice actors like the y2k12 did. They got Pat Fraley, Townsend Colman and Cam Clarke to reprise their roles and they still delivered. Oh, and Rob was back in true form as 80's Raphael...

It's a union thing that didn't allow 4Kids to bring on any other VAs outside their little circle and apparently it still holds today. We'll never hear the 2003 cast on this series!

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Technically it does explain why Krang was the only one of his species to be seen in the original cartoon. We never saw Utroms or his race (beyond that one flashback) in the original cartoon. In Season 7 he makes clones of himself but they were all based on his DNA.

I mean why didn't Krang have an army of Utrom warriors in the original toon? Aside from the obvious fact that the original show didn't use many Mirage concepts, he was essentially the only one of his species in the show. So he was "banished" from his own kind.

Does this mean the Star of Brazil diamond ("Four Musketurtles") was teleported from Nickelodeon Dimension X to Brazil on MWS Earth? (with an attempt to send it to Nickelodeon Earth failing).

[TMNTInsighter]

BTW, I'm pretty sure that in that moment where Leo tried to tell Splinter about the future while envisioning Shredder's final act in "Annihilation Earth" may end up fulfilling the timeline in a way. Perhaps Leo's words there will ring in Splinter's ear during the events of AE and make him decide to seek out the Foot's help. I've always said that this arc needs to follow the time travel rules established in "Tale of the Yokai" which is very reminiscent of the rules in "Gargoyles" (please tell me someone else has seen that series). This way, the events of AE will occur because they already did (ala "Prisoner of Azkaban"). I always had a feeling that the Turtles might be the ones to lead the Triceratons to Earth in the first place and set up the events of AE. This episode did tidy up the time loop with Tiger Claw's appearance in the 1987 realm at the end after all, so that's good.

Obviously the conclusion of AE was so beguiling that you and I know things can't end that way. Which made me think that they'd break their own rules or use something very deus ex to wriggle their way through this arcs conclusion. I however believe that while the final result may be altered, the events that led up to it and the ramifications that are supposed to follow because of it would remain the same. I imagine, for example, in the turtles attempt to stop Splinter's assassination, they'd get the attention of Tiger Claw himself and, finding himself in the middle of the skirmish, ends up taking Splinter's place as the stabbed victim albeit he'd survive it. I imagine he'd enter a pact of vengeance with Splinter, himself embittered beyond what we've seen so that he's almost nothing like the Splinter we used to know. The job they did with the time travel conundrum so far, especially in this episode, gives me hope that they know what they're doing there.

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by TurtleFan2012

I'm confused. Is Turtles Forever canon or not? 1987 Donatello doesn't seem to recognize the Mirage Turtles even though he met them back in TF. He acts like it's his first time visiting the Mirage universe. Weird.

In the beginning, it's implied that the 87 turtles met the 2003 turtles. How would they know about alternate realities if they never met the 2003 crew?

Turtles Forever isn't canon to this series nor did I expect it to be.

I've said this in a thread about the 2003 series discussing whether Nickelodeon is trying to bury is trying to bury. It sounds strange considering they actually paid 4kids 10 million specifically for it and they have aired it in marathons which seemed to go down well with younger audience already watching the Nick show so it's strange that anyone would think they are.

That being said it doesn't pay to have another version out there right now that would seem to be competing with itself particularly since the Nick show draws a lot from the 4kids series including this episode which lifted it's plot, presentation, a lot of the same specific jokes and character beats from Turtles Forever.

I don't think they will any more with 4kids series until this animated series is over.

Originally Posted by Yoshimickster

Turtles Forever is better as a 2K3 special than an 87 special, that's for sure.

How? The animation for the 2K3 characters and their world was much less compared to the amount of work they did for the '87 series. They also overlooked what happened to Serling (sure we can assume he found a way back to the future but it's not the same) as well as overlooking a lot of their history and continuity.

Whereas Turtles Forever had the entire OT cast of characters, vehicles and environments as well obscure references that die hard fans of the show should get and in the end Bebop and Rocksteady save the multiverse. The only fly in the ointment is the arguable characterization of the '87 characters.

By comparison I don't think the Nick crew really did much homework at all. It's not a huge deal for me but I'm surprised that more fans aren't making a bigger deal of the retconning of Krang here. Transdimensional Turtles portrayed Krang as permanently stuck on Earth pretty much overlooking that he spent considerable amount of the Fred Wolf series in Dimension-X which can't reasonably be seen as the same realm as the Nick one. Didn't the OT describe Krang as the Supreme Warlord or Dimension-X until he was exiled, it hardly gels with the idea in this special that he's essentially the Jar Jar Binks of the Kraang and thrown out because he's a screw up.

[Yoshimickster]

Originally Posted by Galactus

How? The animation for the 2K3 characters and their world was much less compared to the amount of work they did for the '87 series. They also overlooked what happened to Serling (sure we can assume he found a way back to the future but it's not the same) as well as overlooking a lot of their history and continuity.

Whereas Turtles Forever had the entire OT cast of characters, vehicles and environments as well obscure references that die hard fans of the show should get and in the end Bebop and Rocksteady save the multiverse. The only fly in the ointment is the arguable characterization of the '87 characters.

By comparison I don't think the Nick crew really did much homework at all. It's not a huge deal for me but I'm surprised that more fans aren't making a bigger deal of the retconning of Krang here. Transdimensional Turtles portrayed Krang as permanently stuck on Earth pretty much overlooking that he spent considerable amount of the Fred Wolf series in Dimension-X which can't reasonably be seen as the same realm as the Nick one. Didn't the OT describe Krang as the Supreme Warlord or Dimension-X until he was exiled, it hardly gels with the idea in this special that he's essentially the Jar Jar Binks of the Kraang and thrown out because he's a screw up.

It might've had all the OT characters, but they weren't the best representation of them in all honesty. Don't get me wrong, there were a good chunk of digs to the original series that REALLY worked, but there were also scenes where they said the turtles couldn't take anything seriously, 87 Donnie not knowing what a freaking HAMMER is, and a scene where they just huddle together and CRY for no reason. It wasn't enough for me to hate it, as Ch'rell was on POINT in this, but it could've been more respectful to the OT turtles. Heck, Bebop and Rocksteady were probably the most respectfully adapted characters IN that special!

AS FOR KRANG'S RETCON-there are several ways it can work. Yes, Sub-Prime stated he banished him to Earth-BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT-Dimension X
isn't a different universe from Earth, but a different dimension. Imagine a universe like a cake, and dimensions are the layers on that cake.

As for Krang being Sub-Prime's cousin, there's two possibilities one logical and on fantastic. The logical theory, is that after Sub-Prime banished Krang to the Dimension X of Earth-1987, he scrambled together a mutagen that gave him the Krangezoid body he claimed to originally have. After it was destroyed via unknown means, he went insane forgetting his brain form was actually his original form.

NOW for the fantastic, it is well noted that the 1987 cartoon is full of inconsistencies that effect the series to its core, so much so that its meta-physical properties are unstable. The reason for these unstable properties has yet to be explained, my theory is that Krang's method of teleporting from Earth from Dimension X causes a space time ripple effect can cause all sorts of ill effects. We can then assume, that the distortion reached Earth 2012, altering not the voices or clothes of Sub-Prime, but either his memories or very HISTORY itself so that Krang was his cousin. As much as I love the 87 show for what it is, its meta-particles are a DANGER to the multiverse, and should be avoided as much as possible. So for all you dimension hopping turtle fans out there-PLEASE-wear proper dimensional shielding.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Galactus

I've said this in a thread about the 2003 series discussing whether Nickelodeon is trying to bury is trying to bury. It sounds strange considering they actually paid 4kids 10 million specifically for it and they have aired it in marathons which seemed to go down well with younger audience already watching the Nick show so it's strange that anyone would think they are.

That being said it doesn't pay to have another version out there right now that would seem to be competing with itself particularly since the Nick show draws a lot from the 4kids series including this episode which lifted it's plot, presentation, a lot of the same specific jokes and character beats from Turtles Forever.

You do realize Nick has put up the first four seasons of the 2k3 series on itunes, right?

[darthsmozers]

Watched and loved it. Can someone point out the video game references for me?

Also, I've been out of this show since season 2. Someone told me there is an episode with electric seaweed... is that from the old TMNT game? And if so, which episode is it?

[Etsyturtle2]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Yeah, it was a pretty nice touch.

Nice touch? Not only was the animation absolutely horrid, but they went with an inaccurate, unnecessary shadow to further push the "flat" idea, that they HAD to point out.

[TMNTInsighter]

No, it was a nice touch and so was the work put into the episode.

[Etsyturtle2]

Originally Posted by TMNTInsighter

No, it was a nice touch and so was the work put into the episode.

Thanks for opening my eyes.

Might I ask how it was a nice touch? (In the most polite way possible, of course)

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by Yoshimickster

It might've had all the OT characters, but they weren't the best representation of them in all honesty. Don't get me wrong, there were a good chunk of digs to the original series that REALLY worked, but there were also scenes where they said the turtles couldn't take anything seriously,

Pretty sure I've danced this tango before a few posts back

87 Donnie not knowing what a freaking HAMMER is

Like in the old show episode Leonardo Lightens Up where Donatello used a wrench as a hammer and the animation is recreated exactly like that moment in the episode.

and a scene where they just huddle together and CRY for no reason.

Like any number of episodes of the old show where the turtles are affected by weird rays that male them cowards and do just that but there is an episode where at least one of the turtles does that without anything to alter his personality. Leonardo in Snakes Alive.

I admit I could have done without that moment but if we accept that Leonardo the leader of the group has a crippling fear that makes him act I think fair enough to say that all the turtles may have a crippling fear of being erased.

AS FOR KRANG'S RETCON-there are several ways it can work. Yes, Sub-Prime stated he banished him to Earth-BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT-Dimension X isn't a different universe from Earth, but a different dimension. Imagine a universe like a cake, and dimensions are the layers on that cake.

As for Krang being Sub-Prime's cousin, there's two possibilities one logical and on fantastic. The logical theory, is that after Sub-Prime banished Krang to the Dimension X of Earth-1987, he scrambled together a mutagen that gave him the Krangezoid body he claimed to originally have. After it was destroyed via unknown means, he went insane forgetting his brain form was actually his original form.

NOW for the fantastic, it is well noted that the 1987 cartoon is full of inconsistencies that effect the series to its core, so much so that its meta-physical properties are unstable. The reason for these unstable properties has yet to be explained, my theory is that Krang's method of teleporting from Earth from Dimension X causes a space time ripple effect can cause all sorts of ill effects. We can then assume, that the distortion reached Earth 2012, altering not the voices or clothes of Sub-Prime, but either his memories or very HISTORY itself so that Krang was his cousin. As much as I love the 87 show for what it is, its meta-particles are a DANGER to the multiverse, and should be avoided as much as possible. So for all you dimension hopping turtle fans out there-PLEASE-wear proper dimensional shielding.

This episode seemed to have us believe that the Dimension-X we see is in the Nick series is the same as the Fred Wolf one and that the backstory the Neutrinos gave of Krang being exiled in Hot Rodding Teenagers from Dimension-X is Sub Prime banishing him. It's pretty clever and you have multiple ways you can try and explain away all the various inconsistencies this creates with the depiction of both on the show as well as what little description we have of Krang's backstory. I think easiest being that there are 2D parts and 3D parts of Dimension-X and maybe the Neutrinos saw things differently to the Kraang in terms of how incompetent Krang was but then it the characterization of the OT characters being screw ups bothered fans in Turtles Forever it's kinda strange this doesn't bother anyone.

Likewise if we can use reality warping to explain altered histories, appearances and even memories then you could easily make the same argument for Turtles Forever. The accident that sent them to the 4kids universe brought out their more cartoon aspects but no one ever came up with that 'excuse' for Turtles Forever.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

You do realize Nick has put up the first four seasons of the 2k3 series on itunes, right?

I actually wasn't aware of that (so thanks) however I still think my opinion stands and it isn't really a criticism of the way Nickelodeon is handling the '03 show as I can understand (or at least why I think they are handling it this way) but I think if was a part of the canon they wanted to currently promote they would at least did some kind of reference to Turtles Forever.

[Yoshimickster]

Originally Posted by Galactus

This episode seemed to have us believe that the Dimension-X we see is in the Nick series is the same as the Fred Wolf one and that the backstory the Neutrinos gave of Krang being exiled in Hot Rodding Teenagers from Dimension-X is Sub Prime banishing him.

It's pretty clever and you have multiple ways you can try and explain away all the various inconsistencies this creates with the depiction of both on the show as well as what little decsription we have of Krang's backstory. I think easiest being that there are 2D parts and 3D parts of Dimension-X and maybe the Neutrinos saw things differently to the Kraang in terms of how incompetent Krang was but then it the characterization of the OT characters being screw ups bothered fans in Turtles Forever it's kinda strange this doesn't bother anyone.

Whoa...this brings up a lot of new thoughts. Since the second dimension of Dimension X is the one from the 87 version, that means the second dimension of 2K12 IS THE 87 VERSION! Trippy, that's some Mr.Mxyzpltlk stuff right there.

Originally Posted by Galactus

Likewise if we can use reality warping to explain altered histories, appearances and even memories then you could easily make the same argument for Turtles Forever. The accident that sent them to the 4kids universe brought out their more cartoon aspects but no one ever came up with that 'excuse' for Turtles Forever.

Not gonna lie, this thought is how I can still enjoy them in the movie. Also why there were suddenly mutant bananas.

And if the distortion wasn't from the 87 universe itself, it could also have been from Ch'rell attempted to destroy the entire multiverse, which even after stopping effected the 4th dimension to its core causing permanent distortion. That is some Back to the Future Stuff right there.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Galactus

Pretty sure I've danced this tango before a few posts back



Like in the old show episode Leonardo Lightens Up where Donatello used a wrench as a hammer and the animation is recreated exactly like that moment in the episode.



Like any number of episodes of the old show where the turtles are affected by weird rays that male them cowards and do just that but there is an episode where at least one of the turtles does that without anything to alter his personality. Leonardo in Snakes Alive.

I admit I could have done without that moment but if we accept that Leonardo the leader of the group has a crippling fear that makes him act I think fair enough to say that all the turtles may have a crippling fear of being erased.



This episode seemed to have us believe that the Dimension-X we see is in the Nick series is the same as the Fred Wolf one and that the backstory the Neutrinos gave of Krang being exiled in Hot Rodding Teenagers from Dimension-X is Sub Prime banishing him. It's pretty clever and you have multiple ways you can try and explain away all the various inconsistencies this creates with the depiction of both on the show as well as what little description we have of Krang's backstory. I think easiest being that there are 2D parts and 3D parts of Dimension-X and maybe the Neutrinos saw things differently to the Kraang in terms of how incompetent Krang was but then it the characterization of the OT characters being screw ups bothered fans in Turtles Forever it's kinda strange this doesn't bother anyone.

Likewise if we can use reality warping to explain altered histories, appearances and even memories then you could easily make the same argument for Turtles Forever. The accident that sent them to the 4kids universe brought out their more cartoon aspects but no one ever came up with that 'excuse' for Turtles Forever.



I actually wasn't aware of that (so thanks) however I still think my opinion stands and it isn't really a criticism of the way Nickelodeon is handling the '03 show as I can understand (or at least why I think they are handling it this way) but I think if was a part of the canon they wanted to currently promote they would at least did some kind of reference to Turtles Forever.

Probably same Dimension X. Maybe first the MWS one where Utroms are fr.o.m. Then evil Kraang speciellt try to fit better fot themselves as they mutate and changer parts of Dimension X. Byt MWS triceratons are Probably not fr.o.m. Dimension X.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by Etsyturtle2

Thanks for opening my eyes.

Might I ask how it was a nice touch? (In the most polite way possible, of course)

It's a nod to the OT & other traditionally made animation from that era. Each frame was made up of the characters being painted on cels, clear sheets of "paper" that were placed over static painted backgrounds with various light effects & stuff. Often times, you could see the edges, shadows, even flecks of dust & the occasional hair. Nick "homaged" that aspect a bit. It was just a little stylistic decision they did to try & give it a hand-made touch so as to counter the very synthetic flash-heavy feel. I thought it was clever.

[Etsyturtle2]

Originally Posted by Powder

It's a nod to the OT & other traditionally made animation from that era. Each frame was made up of the characters being painted on cels, clear sheets of "paper" that were placed over static painted backgrounds with various light effects & stuff. Often times, you could see the edges, shadows, even flecks of dust & the occasional hair. Nick "homaged" that aspect a bit. It was just a little stylistic decision they did to try & give it a hand-made touch so as to counter the very synthetic flash-heavy feel. I thought it was clever.

Um.... nah.

Edit: Besides the shadows, the animation in this episode was garbage.