Official Ep Discussion S4 Ep 12: Evil of Lord Dregg

[Splinter the boss]

Originally Posted by Prototype

As long as they leave out Raph doing the gender twisting pose I'm OK with it.

Yeah, Raph doing that thing with his leg is just plain weird. I don't get it. I thought it was girls(no offense) who do that.

[Icebot]

I liked this episode, it reminded me of April's Artifact from the 4kids cartoon. I think I like that Dregg is a robot.

[CyberCubed]

The Dregg reveal was weird. We see a whole planet of insect people, we see him eat, and his whole body looked like flesh.

I don't know what to make of it. Maybe it'll be more clear the next time Dregg appears.

[kelligrafie]

Originally Posted by Autbot_Benz

shippers ruin everything first Arrow and now Turtles. I jab at the people who whine about Raph on this show but I actually side with them a bit on this episode . That was pathetic he couldn't fight because of Mona.

Yeah I found it rather overdramatic.

I thought he would've gone stupid with hurt filled rage and made a mistake through that and be captured.

That to me seems more like Raph.

Ok so if your partner betrayed you, you probably would act like that.

Except they're not partners.

They're overly besotted teenagers. Nowhere have they ever implied that they're officially 'together'. Sure they have strong feelings for each other but is it serious long lasting love or hormonal fits of doe-eyed devotion?


I thought this episode was average but Lord Dregg seems to have become the super villain they made him out to be. Very dastardly.

[Vicky82]

Originally Posted by kelligrafie

Except they're not partners.

They're overly besotted teenagers. Nowhere have they ever implied that they're officially 'together'. Sure they have strong feelings for each other but is it serious long lasting love or hormonal fits of doe-eyed devotion?

I know they aren't partners, I said partners as in boyfriend/girlfriend, married ect. It was just easier to say.

[TurFlytle]

Probably it's like one small bug inside. Think Utrom Shredder, except it's a talking bug. Fugitoid said he was the same race as the rest of the bugs. His Vreens are shown to be mechanical as they release electricity when they are killed. Probably most of the organic life was erased by Dregg and replaced with mechanical beings.

[Utrommaniac]

Originally Posted by TurFlytle

Probably it's like one small bug inside. Think Utrom Shredder, except it's a talking bug.

That was actually my first consideration, but I'm putting it aside for now.

[CyberCubed]

Did brandon auman or anyone say anything online about what the deal with Dregg was?

[TMNTInsighter]

Originally Posted by Autbot_Benz

shippers ruin everything first Arrow and now Turtles. I jab at the people who whine about Raph on this show but I actually side with them a bit on this episode . That was pathetic he couldn't fight because of Mona.

Well, for one example among others, I think you have to look back at his attitude towards Karai last season (and himself a bit too). Obviously Karai (Raph too) was acting against her will; while Mona and Sal, though they had free will, felt they didn't have a choice and yet none of that stopped Raph from feeling upset about the situation.
Why? Because Raph likes things simple. He hates complications. Especially when they revolve around others that they're supposed to love and trust.
When Karai turned against them in S3 and Raph saw his brothers in pain over it, he acted oppositely not because he was his typical jerk self or because he never accepted her. It was because he wanted his brothers to stop being in this pain--a grim good fortune he was able to keep himself from sharing in. Karai had been their enemy before and those days were simple, no ifs, ands, or buts. If they could've found a way he would've been all for rescuing her again but when hope seemed lost at the beginning of "The Fourfold Trap", he felt there was nothing else to do but act like he and his brothers did back in the old episodes.
And if we know anything about his character as well as Karai's, if there was only one way to stop them from hurting the ones they loved while under the influence of mind control, they both would've accepted to die rather than their family members meet a grim end so they could live as slaves. Again, that's why Raph hurt over Mona's and Sal's betrayal the way he did, because it's a natural part of his character to hate complications like that.

[oldmanwinters]

I was really weirded out when Dregg tried to eat Donatello. They really showed him to have an appetite in this episode, when he was snacking on his throne, ala Jabba the Hutt in Return of the Jedi.

And then it turns out he was a robot the whole time.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by oldmanwinters

I was really weirded out when Dregg tried to eat Donatello. They really showed him to have an appetite in this episode, when he was snacking on his throne, ala Jabba the Hutt in Return of the Jedi.

And then it turns out he was a robot the whole time.

Yeah, that's what I don't get at all. Dregg was eating, tried to eat Don...so where did the robot head come from?

I keep wondering if the Dregg at the very end was a robot decoy or something, but I think the writers would have told us that if it was the case. Weird.

[GoldMutant]

Given how they never entirely kill off mutants or characters, I was actually kinda surprised with Dregg as a robot partially, first time I've seen a plot twist to enjoy. Anyways, my thoughts are primarily the same as earlier today: The Evil of Dregg has decent action and aesthetics (though not the insects personally) but oh my.... Raphael and Mona. I've said my case many times now and am tired of beating the dead horse, but I want to reiterate as it's going to happen yet again if The Ever-Burning Fire has Mona based on the Chompy clip.

Putting aside Ciro leaving his computer due to the requests of Mona Lisa, I can't get her inclusion outside her popularity. She was nothing more than a one off character like a good percentage of the Fred Wolf cast. I thought Raphael Meets His Match was actually a good episode from the series, not the greatest but a fun episode regardless. I really wish more of her dynamic was played with in the later seasons, it could have been interesting.

For this series, the relationships are pitiful. Leo and Karai is the only one I see as realistic, the struggle of a man trying to assist his family. The others range from mediocrity to just cringe inducing. Don and April I won't repeat again, I'll include a link though to my stance on it: http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/sho...6&postcount=27 As for Mikey and Renet, Turtles in Time still ranks as one of the worst episodes of the entire series. It's a sudden change in Michelangelo's character and only serves to fill the status quo of Greg Cipes and Ashley Johnson having chemistry in most animation appearances.

In terms of Raphael and Mona Lisa though, I don't get how or why I should root for them to be together. Again, cast aside reality where break ups occur, there's two sides to a story. One person may feel heartbroken on it, the other will not and want to move on. This episode tried to make Raphael once more care more for Mona over his whole family. That infuriates me to no end on Raph putting more trust in his "girl" he's had a brief fling with over the family he bickers with and loves.

Look, I have nothing against a softie Raph if it's done correctly; Spike I will praise because of that reason. Or other series where Raph was upset, like the 1990 movie or Tales of Leo. For this series, why turn Raph into a person lacking self-confidence just because of betrayal and then get back together? If Raph didn't attempt anything, he would have been killed easily this episode; why not use his anger from it and make him turn aggressive? Or, Mona still betrays them but Raph is left alone to confront Dregg. That would have been a better story probably over sulking Raph.

I'm going to quote what I wrote again from The War for Dimension X! again, because honestly if they followed that this episode could have been a perfect conclusion to the relationship, well except for the getting back together. To repeat:

Originally Posted by GoldMutant

• Start with Raphael and Mona having a fight in Moons
• Raph is either outclassed due to Mona's advanced training or a nice even fight.
• To go full circle of Raph making fun of the crushes, have him seek advice from the group on love lifes. Maybe Mikey teases him a little for comedic banter.
• The two meet up during the Ice Dragon battle; Raph desires to have her open up. Fights in a badass fashion.
• Mona still hates him, but when the two freeze, Raph protects Mona from freezing.
• The two begin to respect each others skills; no relationship kiss yet, but a hug or handshake.
• Possibly throughout the episodes before this, Raph thinks about Mona a little wondering about her. (this is a definite maybe)
• Now in War for Dimension X, repeat up to the detention center.
• Raph is shocked to see Mona Lisa again and attempts to break her out. Hint Mona has gone nicer.
• The two work together on the Dractoids, demonstrate their growth in teamwork.
• Either have them kiss, or end the episode with something cute.

It also annoys me of Gavin Hignight writing this episode as he wrote Slash and Destroy, arguably one of the best episodes of the entire series. I can see he gets Raph partially and can do throwbacks to make good stories, but not this time. Every writer has one bad episode; unfortunately, this was Hignight's.

I have no problem debating why I feel this is one of the series' low points. It's wasted potential and only serves as pandering. A horrible execution to not only Raph's characterization, which has taken a serious hit either way, and killing whatever I can care about for both him and Mona.

[Ninjinister]

That was a sweet episode.

[TurtleTitan97]

Decent episode. I give it a 7.8/10

[lonewarrior20]

i liked it. i really expected the robot head to open up and we find out dregg was a little cockroach.

[TheJ-manTurtleMan]

Originally Posted by Vicky82

I've noticed that Mikey has been awesome this season. He seems more focus, he hasn't made any mistakes.

He's been amazing these last few episode. Last week he saved April, killed some of those gremlins, he supported and cheered Donnie up. This week, he saved April again, killed some bugs, he was concerned for Donie and he was being protective over Raph when Leo was annoyed at him.

I hope his amazing moments continues.

I've noticed that too, and I hope they keep it up. They have kinda made Casey Jones the comic relief in this season, which I'm not too keen on, I think he's super annoying, but If that means Mikey is less stupid comic relief, than I;m okay with it.

[JH24]

Weird episode, tried to like it but if just felt forced and cliché in the end.


- Mona Lisa, not really liking her character but I can overlook that. But she appears too much this season and her role and relation with Raph is overplayed.
- Donatello's face. Wasn't funny, just gross.
- Casey laughing about Donny being stung. Hated it. Actually made me stop watching before forcing myself to continue later on. At that point I knew what kind of episode this would be.
- Speaking of Casey, he was terribly annoying. I liked his character in the previous episode but got really irritated here. I hate to say it but writers: Please do something about his character. Don't change it every other episode. I don't want to feel dread everytime Casey is going to say or do something on-screen.
- The Donatello abuse continues. Almost getting eaten. Was no point in that at all.
- Dregg being a robot...that was just weird and makes no sense after what we've seen of him before.
- Armaggon. It seems he's dead. What a terrible waste of a character. He had a great design and voice. When he was first introduced I hoped he had some shred of honor left and would turn around in the end. But they did nothing with him.


They seem to have switched Mikey's and Casey's roles around. Mikey is more competent, while Casey has seemingly taken Mikey's role of comic relief.

Didn't enjoy this at all. This episode left such a bad taste in my mouth I feel like taking a break from the series.

[CyberCubed]

Armaggon isn't dead. He's been eaten before for goodness sakes.

[TheJ-manTurtleMan]

Also in regards to Mikey being less of a goofball. That short little scene with him that happens as they go back to the ship with Donnie. The focus just stays on Mikey for like a second and It really stood out to me. He doesn't want the team to split up and he instinctively knows that something is not right. Shows his natural compassion and love for his brothers. I really hope they keep going like this, It's showing that the turtles are maturing.

Well...maybe not Raph, but that's debatable

[Mini-Turtle]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Armaggon isn't dead. He's been eaten before for goodness sakes.

He was rescued before by Dregg, but now he is in the Sarlacc, where he will be slowly digested over the course of a thousand years. And Dregg probably will have no desire to rescue him from there since he is convinced that Armaggon threw that thing at him.

As for Dregg's robotic head, did Don see it when he was in Dregg's mouth?