TMNT 2 Box Office Predictions and Results

[Autbot_Benz]

[pdizzle]

Originally Posted by Ramboraph4life aka Matt

From what I hear...the film doesn't have fight scenes, Martial Arts, Shredder sounds like he's barely in it, Turtles dialogue is just exposition, they don't have 'actual brotherly interactions (for example Mikey pranking Raph, etc.)' or heart/care with each other, the 'being turned into humans' idea goes nowhere...

But it's a fantastic film? I'm not posting it to belittle people. I just don't get that.

And Please don't say because 'Bebop, Rocksteady, and Krang are in it' and that's it.

Because that's the only reasons I keep hearing. The only ones. Anyway, I know that's not what the topic is at hand, so I apologize.

But again...I just don't get it...

Let me chime in here. As Ive said did enjoy the film but havent really discussed the film beyond that, so i guess now would be a good opportunity to do so. First let me say, im not dismissing anything youve said or saying my opinions are fact but only MY opinions.

No. There is no martial arts in it. Only acrobatics. There are fight scenes but their kinda just action sequences, idk, its kinda hard to explain. Its like they manage to show a fight without blows being thrown sorta...with the exception of splinter when he took down casey, and the foot when they were in the police station. Shredder has his time in the movie only they kinda short handed him. He was throughout the movie only by the time his story came to an end it didnt go anywhere after all his build up.
I guess the turtle interactions are a matter of what one gets out of it cause i didnt see it that way at all. As a matter of fact there has never been a turtles movie that has given equal screentime to all of the turtles the way this one has and i think thats one of my favorite things about this movie. Their interactions were heartfelt and showed a strong family bond. And raph and mikey brought so much heart in some of the scenes they easily fill this roll.
As far as the human thing not going anywhere, it went as far as it needed to go to tell the story they were telling.
Also while i did enjoy bebop and rocksteady, i thought they were better in their human form, but thats just me.
All that said i will say this is no where near the turtle movie a 32 year old me wanted but id be lying if i said im not glad this movie wasnt made to bring turtles to the big screen the way they should have with secert of the ooz. Yes it has its problems and its a far cry from marvel films and standards but i enjoyed it none the less. Lets just call it a guilty pleasure. Cause just like everyone else i wanted a bad ass martial arts heavy movie filled with a lot of heart and coherent writing, but i still enjoyed the movie none the less. Sorry to jump in just thought Id share...

[TrickOrTreater]

No. There is no martial arts in it.

I'm glad this movie tanked.

[Bry]

No martial arts in the movie.

The word "ninja" is in the title.

[ToTheNines]

I thought we left all this neutered violence nonsense in the 90's...

Why does Captain America get to beat the holy **** out of people but not Leonardo?

Why do the Turtles get to engage in life threatening hand to hand combat on ****ing Nickelodeon but not in a PG13 movie?

[TrickOrTreater]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

I thought we left all this neutered violence nonsense in the 90's...

Why does Captain America get to beat the holy **** out of people but not Leonardo?

Why do the Turtles get to engage in life threatening hand to hand combat on ****ing Nickelodeon but not in a PG13 movie?

Because Michael Bay is a hack who wouldn't know a good movie if it spit in his eye.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

I thought we left all this neutered violence nonsense in the 90's...

Why does Captain America get to beat the holy **** out of people but not Leonardo?

Why do the Turtles get to engage in life threatening hand to hand combat on ****ing Nickelodeon but not in a PG13 movie?

Isn't one of the big reasons Secret of the Ooze got so much **** is because of the 'neutered violence' compared to the first one, as well for it being silly/sillier?

At least with Secret of the Ooze there are Martial Arts being done (just look at Ernie Reyes Jr. alone), the Turtles look like the Ninja Turtles, it doesn't have dick/fart jokes, and it has fun lines of dialogue (a little Too Raph, etc.).

But while that film got flack and continues to get flack...this one seems like it is getting more of a pass ONLY because Bebop, Rocksteady, and Krang are in it.

I'm sorry...but I don't understand that.

I read your post pdizzle. I appreciate it. But "a fight without blows being thrown sorta' seems...well...Pointless. Am I the only one who thinks that?

And to pdizzle...you mention about the heart of it. Do the turtles show heart to Each Other (for example, Raph showing some heart to Mikey, vice versa, and such)...ala the bathtub scene in the 1990? Showing that actually care for each other?

Or is it 'manufactured heart that came outta nowhere' like Raph's 'emotional speech' at the end of the 2014 flick (I still don't know where the hell that came from)? Or 'yeah, you assume they like each other/care because their brothers...and that's all you need for the plot' type of thing. In other words, something not earned...

[Powder]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

I thought we left all this neutered violence nonsense in the 90's...

Why does Captain America get to beat the holy **** out of people but not Leonardo?

Why do the Turtles get to engage in life threatening hand to hand combat on ****ing Nickelodeon but not in a PG13 movie?

The latest issue of IDW's TMNT had Leonardo threaten to cut someone's eyes out, blade to face. So them too.

[d_osborn]

The interaction between the turtles was one of the things I felt OOTS did really well. WAY better than the previous movie, anyway. There were definitely some fun character moments.

The martial arts/fighting stuff was non-existent, though. I would be curious to hear the reasoning behind it. Especially considering there was more cussing in it than I thought there would be.

On the box office subject, there was a great article in Forbes today on the subject. Interesting points.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmen...justice-league

[TrickOrTreater]

Originally Posted by Ramboraph4life aka Matt

Isn't one of the big reasons Secret of the Ooze got so much **** is because of the 'neutered violence' compared to the first one, as well for it being silly/sillier?

Oh man. I can't believe I didn't connect that.

There were people on this very f*cking board bitching about exactly that, just recently.

Oh my god the hypocrisy.

[pdizzle]

Originally Posted by Ramboraph4life aka Matt

Isn't one of the big reasons Secret of the Ooze got so much **** is because of the 'neutered violence' compared to the first one, as well for it being silly/sillier?

At least with Secret of the Ooze there are Martial Arts being done (just look at Ernie Reyes Jr. alone), the Turtles look like the Ninja Turtles, it doesn't have dick/fart jokes, and it has fun lines of dialogue (a little Too Raph, etc.).

But while that film got flack and continues to get flack...this one seems like it is getting more of a pass ONLY because Bebop, Rocksteady, and Krang are in it.

I'm sorry...but I don't understand that.

I read your post pdizzle. I appreciate it. But "a fight without blows being thrown sorta' seems...well...Pointless. Am I the only one who thinks that?

And to pdizzle...you mention about the heart of it. Do the turtles show heart to Each Other (for example, Raph showing some heart to Mikey, vice versa, and such)...ala the bathtub scene in the 1990? Showing that actually care for each other?

Or is it 'manufactured heart that came outta nowhere' like Raph's 'emotional speech' at the end of the 2014 flick (I still don't know where the hell that came from)? Or 'yeah, you assume they like each other/care because their brothers...and that's all you need for the plot' type of thing. In other words, something not earned...

The main problem with soto wasnt that it was silly imo. It was more about how at that time in history sequels always tended to stray so far from its prequel it didnt feel like the same movie verse as this was a problem with so many 90s movies. Also the fact that they leaned more on cartoon fans without giving anything from the actual cartoon its self. But all in all soto was ok. Just my two cents on the matter. As far as the heart I dont think i can say it was anything near the calibur as the bathtub scene from the 1990 film but then again the story didnt really call for it either. However the emotion it did show didnt come out of nowhere like the 2014 either. Raph and mikey are sided together in the way they feel about turning human, then donnie and leo are sorta sided. I cant say to much without getting to spoilerish but it leads to some interesting outcomes in their emotions, and even gives us some heart to heart moments. It also allows us to see a different side of raph the movie verse hasnt really explored yet, at least to me. Hope that answers your question a little better.

[evan2000]

Originally Posted by Bry

No martial arts in the movie.

The word "ninja" is in the title.

I'd say there ARE martial arts in the movie. Granted, it's barely as much as an average OT episode had (btw the word "ninja" was in OT's title too) but it's miles ahead of SoTO.

There are lesser ninja fighting than TMNT1 due to the lack of fight scenes involving Shredder (and Splinter), but the fights against the Foot, B&R, and Krang definitely qualify as "martial arts" that feature either hand-to-hand combat or use of weapon (which was regrettably quite limited and only used when hand-to-hand doesn't cut it)

[Shark_Blade]

Karai fights too.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

Originally Posted by evan2000

I'd say there ARE martial arts in the movie. Granted, it's barely as much as an average OT episode had (btw the word "ninja" was in OT's title too) but it's miles ahead of SoTO.

More than one person has confirmed that there's pretty much none in the movie, let alone that 'pretty much no one makes actual contact'...and yet it's miles ahead of SoTO (which actually does have some Martial Arts...Ernie Reyes Jr. alone, let alone what the Turtles do, and there's actual contact)?

Granted, it's your opinion. I'm not here to belittle it. It just makes me understand the rationale behind why this new one is 'getting the pass' less and less.

[evan2000]

Originally Posted by Ramboraph4life aka Matt

More than one person has confirmed that there's pretty much none in the movie, let alone that 'pretty much no one makes actual contact'...and yet it's miles ahead of SoTO (which actually does have some Martial Arts...Ernie Reyes Jr. alone, let alone what the Turtles do, and there's actual contact)?

Granted, it's your opinion. I'm not here to belittle it. It just makes me understand the rationale behind why this new one is 'getting the pass' less and less.

Well, "pretty much none" doesn't mean "none at all". It means there is very little of it, which was what I said too. Regarding "actual contact", of course there are! (then again, not a lot though) One example is the scene where Raph took down the Foot soldiers on motorcycles, which you can watch in the second official trailer.

I personally would loved to have more ninja fight scenes too, but the story this time round simply didn't call for it very often. There are no lair attack this round. No escape from captive scenes. Boss fight? Yes but it's with Krang instead of Shredder. The fight scenes with the Foot is only to stop them from rescuing Shredder, and to prevent them from obtaining the ooze in a later scene. And when the turtles were fighting with B&R, the objective is more to gain custody of a Krang tech, and not so much to knock each other down. Besides, B&R aren't ninjas themselves, their fighting edge is purely due to brute strength and size, so one might not perceive any real "ninja fight" in those encounters.

Casey and Keno just aren't a fair comparison, period. The former is just an average cop while the latter is an actual martial artist (the actor himself is one too). Casey is only good at roller skating and waving his hockey stick, and perfect puck aim - which was clearly demonstrated in the movie. But he is certainly no match for any real martial artist.

In the end, while the movie is obviously not having enough traditional combats to be considered a "martial art" movie, whatever it did end up with served its purpose. Despite being far and few between, the handful of actual fight scenes are still enjoyable for the viewers, and certainly assured us that the turtles are as capable as before when it comes to being ninjas. The skills are not forgotten, just not used as often (more like, not being called for as often) that's all.

[samxsteal]

Originally Posted by evan2000

Well, "pretty much none" doesn't mean "none at all". It means there is very little of it, which was what I said too. Regarding "actual contact", of course there are! (then again, not a lot though) One example is the scene where Raph took down the Foot soldiers on motorcycles, which you can watch in the second official trailer.

I personally would loved to have more ninja fight scenes too, but the story this time round simply didn't call for it very often. There are no lair attack this round. No escape from captive scenes. Boss fight? Yes but it's with Krang instead of Shredder. The fight scenes with the Foot is only to stop them from rescuing Shredder, and to prevent them from obtaining the ooze in a later scene. And when the turtles were fighting with B&R, the objective is more to gain custody of a Krang tech, and not so much to knock each other down. Besides, B&R aren't ninjas themselves, their fighting edge is purely due to brute strength and size, so one might not perceive any real "ninja fight" in those encounters.

Casey and Keno just aren't a fair comparison, period. The former is just an average cop while the latter is an actual martial artist (the actor himself is one too). Casey is only good at roller skating and waving his hockey stick, and perfect puck aim - which was clearly demonstrated in the movie. But he is certainly no match for any real martial artist.

In the end, while the movie is obviously not having enough traditional combats to be considered a "martial art" movie, whatever it did end up with served its purpose. Despite being far and few between, the handful of actual fight scenes are still enjoyable for the viewers, and certainly assured us that the turtles are as capable as before when it comes to being ninjas. The skills are not forgotten, just not used as often (more like, not being called for as often) that's all.

Thank you. I wasn't sure how to really describe it but you sumed it up perfectly. Sure I wish there was a super martial artsy tmnt movie but I also like the fun goofy 80s style turtles it's what I always wanted since I was 3 so I'm very happy I finally got that.

The problem with this one failing if it does. Is people think they may reboot it quickly but I dont think thats going to happen. I hope it does. But let's face it it's now we're near the popularity of spiderman. And does have an expanded universe to be added into ala marvel.

And does anyone really want nick to loose the rights/sell the rights. Which mean the show will end the IDW comic will end, etc etc. And those are things I don't want to see. I mean sure I'd love to see a Netflix tmnt show in vain of daredevil. But people who actually think that is possible are living in a pipe dream. Marvel could have bought tmnt ages ago if they wanted to. And Disney likely wouldn't buy them either.

[Bry]

Originally Posted by samxsteal

And does anyone really want nick to loose the rights/sell the rights.

Nick can't "lose" the rights. They own it 100%.

As for selling the rights? If this is the best they can do with the property, then sure, I'd be fine with someone else getting a hold of it.

I don't think that's true, or that it's likely to happen, mind you. The Nick show isn't perfect, but they gave that project to producers who clearly know and care about the property. Same for the IDW comic. Can't fault their decision-making there.

But I do think that handing the movie rights over to Michael Bay was a pure "business" decision, tied to his then-recent first-look deal with Paramount and giving him another popular franchise as a signing bonus, and that's about it. Ideally the studios would factor in creative decision-making as well, giving serious thought about how their properties work and how they can best be realized in film, but Platinum Dunes is basically a factory that churns out terrible movies/products to monetize IPs, so "creativity" was never in the cards with them. My only hope is that Paramount realizes their mistake now and can do something to fix it.

[samxsteal]

Originally Posted by Bry

Nick can't "lose" the rights. They own it 100%.

As for selling the rights? If this is the best they can do with the property, then sure, I'd be fine with someone else getting a hold of it.

I don't think that's true, or that it's likely to happen, mind you. The Nick show isn't perfect, but they gave that project to producers who clearly know and care about the property. Same for the IDW comic. Can't fault their decision-making there.

But I do think that handing the movie rights over to Michael Bay was a pure "business" decision, tied to his then-recent first-look deal with Paramount and giving him another popular franchise as a signing bonus, and that's about it. Ideally the studios would factor in creative decision-making as well, giving serious thought about how their properties work and how they can best be realized in film, but Platinum Dunes is basically a factory that churns out terrible movies/products to monetize IPs, so "creativity" was never in the cards with them. My only hope is that Paramount realizes their mistake now and can do something to fix it.

I understand the own it that's why I put loose the right/sell the rights.

But that's what i mean in order for some people wants to come true Viacom would have sell the right to Disney then work with Netflix to get the show they want. And I just don't think that's realistic. And if they do that then you loose the show which is a very good show, and you loose IDW comic which would not be good because that comic is near perfect.

If anything these movies failing is going to make them rethink. " Well my movie have never done or been received well maybe we should just keep them as a kids show and comics.

Because so.far everything other then the IDW comic and nick show seem to.be tanking. A company isn't going to keep trying to take risks on something that continues to under perform
I just hope that these movies manage to pull through and we get a third movie. Before we don't see a tmnt movie for another 7 years

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Shark_Blade

Karai fights too.

Mmmhmmmm... only to get her ass whooped by the two baddest mothers in the TMNT multiverse....

[Bry]

Originally Posted by samxsteal

And if they do that then you loose the show which is a very good show, and you loose IDW comic which would not be good because that comic is near perfect.

If anything these movies failing is going to make them rethink. " Well my movie have never done or been received well maybe we should just keep them as a kids show and comics.

Because so.far everything other then the IDW comic and nick show seem to.be tanking. A company isn't going to keep trying to take risks on something that continues to under perform
I just hope that these movies manage to pull through and we get a third movie. Before we don't see a tmnt movie for another 7 years

"Support these movies you hate so the stuff you like doesn't potentially go away" is... not a great argument. If the property tanks, it'll be because Paramount/Viacom made poor decisions. It's not our job to keep them afloat, it's their job to make quality content that draws in an audience. And if this movie seemingly failed to do that, that's their mistake to fix.