Did you like Krang's retcon?

[Powder]

They're answering the thread's question...

[Garfield]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

Did you really hate Archie-Tattoo?

I don't know what Archie-Tattoo is, so I'm not talking about that. I was referring to the transdimensional turtles origin for Krang.

[Kendamu]

I did a lot of thinking about the original thread question. Several minutes even! Finally, after a bit of taxing mental gymnastics, I came to this conclusion:

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Garfield

I don't know what Archie-Tattoo is, so I'm not talking about that.

Tattoo in the Archie Comics? He's no mutant:

http://tmntentity.blogspot.se/2011/0...ntures-32.html

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Yes, I suppose that when compared to the slightly older cartoons like Transformers, which had a way larger toylines to promote by the way, it's somewhat less insulting. If you start out with ten action figures to promote, then of course there's going to be more focus on a handful of character than if you started out with forty action figures to promote.

But every cartoon series is made to have a toyline. That's how business works unfortunately. As long as it's a good cartoon that doesn't rely on the toyline like The Transformers did that's what's important. The Real Ghostbusters was exactly in the same boat as Turtles when it came to cash cowing but like the Fred Wolf cartoon it turned out better than just a successful toy commercial.

Originally Posted by neatoman

That doesn't really make it good though, it just makes it a little less shameless than what came out before. The show had a hamster mutate into a human sumo wrestler covered in tattoos, just for the sake of promoting a toy, so it's still a shameless toy commercial.

It's no secret the writers weren't bothered about incorporating the toy characters into the series since they didn't want the burden or expressed disinterest. That's why characters like Tattoo or Ace Duck were handled as an afterthought. I guess the writers felt the series didn't need to rely on it's toyline.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by pferreira

But every cartoon series is made to have a toyline. That's how business works unfortunately. As long as it's a good cartoon that doesn't rely on the toyline like The Transformers did that's what's important. The Real Ghostbusters was exactly in the same boat as Turtles when it came to cash cowing but like the Fred Wolf cartoon it turned out better than just a successful toy commercial.

It's no secret the writers weren't bothered about incorporating the toy characters into the series since they didn't want the burden or expressed disinterest. That's why characters like Tattoo or Ace Duck were handled as an afterthought. I guess the writers felt the series didn't need to rely on it's toyline.

Transformers had more toys to promote, therefore less time for each character, that was my point. If the Fred Wolf cartoon had more characters in it's toyline, then they would have taken up more episodes. It doesn't mean it's good, it just means it's less cluttered. I don't know anything about the Real Ghostbusters though, so I have no idea wheter it's actually good or not.

And just because Tattoo may or may not have been an afterthought, that doesn't make his appearence or those of other toy characters any less awkward.

[Coola Yagami]

Yeah, other than possibly the Ecto-2, but don't quote me on that, the toys were their own thing. They made up all sorts of weird wacky ghosts that were never in the actual show.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by neatoman

I don't know anything about the Real Ghostbusters though, so I have no idea wheter it's actually good or not.

It aired over TV 3 during the early-1990's.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

It aired over TV 3 during the early-1990's.

Doesn't really help me now to know what channel it aired on 25 years ago.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by neatoman

I don't know anything about the Real Ghostbusters though, so I have no idea wheter it's actually good or not.

I'm gonna give you a proper answer then what Scandinavian TV channel it aired on back in the 90's

Season 1 and 2 are worth a watch, after that the show takes a huge turn with meddling from Q5 a consulting firm so out of touch they told the exces and point glasses on Jeanine would scare children. Season 1-2 also have Lorenzo Music as Venkman, after that (ugh) Dave Coulier takes over and it's not pleasant to listen to.

Any episodes post season 2 written by Straczynski is worth a watch, though. but unless you fall heels over the show I'd give the rest a pass, especially when it's Slimer's show.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

We don't know anything of Ace Duck in the original TV-series, he could just have been a human actor wearing an outfit.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

I'm gonna give you a proper answer then what Scandinavian TV channel it aired on back in the 90's

Season 1 and 2 are worth a watch, after that the show takes a huge turn with meddling from Q5 a consulting firm so out of touch they told the exces and point glasses on Jeanine would scare children. Season 1-2 also have Lorenzo Music as Venkman, after that (ugh) Dave Coulier takes over and it's not pleasant to listen to.

Any episodes post season 2 written by Straczynski is worth a watch, though. but unless you fall heels over the show I'd give the rest a pass, especially when it's Slimer's show.

OK, cool. I might give it a try.

I never bothered to check it out because I've always been pretty satisfied with the original but never felt a need for more, the movie ends with the Ghostbusters banishing a god in the body of a marshmallow mascot, I've never really imagined how you could top that.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

That's just fanon. I'm 100% sure TPTB fully intended that to be the actual Fred Wolf universe. If they had money for traditional cel painters and animators and all of that, they would've.

Of course. We heard the same when Turtles Forever aired in November 2009.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Transformers had more toys to promote, therefore less time for each character, that was my point. If the Fred Wolf cartoon had more characters in it's toyline, then they would have taken up more episodes. It doesn't mean it's good, it just means it's less cluttered.

No it doesn't work like that. More toys don't mean more episodes. Think about how many Ninja Turtles toys weren't included in the cartoon series. It's because Fred Wolf and co didn't want to restrict themselves totally like Transformers did.

Originally Posted by neatoman

I don't know anything about the Real Ghostbusters though, so I have no idea wheter it's actually good or not.

Considering you're inability to understand that the Fred Wolf series was capable of good writing and wasn't just made to sell toys you'd probably think the same thing as RGB. The latter by the way is seen by the public and critics as a great and memorable series that's still watchable today like Ninja Turtles.

Originally Posted by neatoman

And just because Tattoo may or may not have been an afterthought, that doesn't make his appearence or those of other toy characters any less awkward.

It does make it awkward in that you can clearly tell the writers weren't restricted by the toy license. It's not like Tattoo had a whole story revolving around him is it? Anyway the Nick series has a toyline but here's the difference: audiences are introduced to them at toy fairs months before the episodes air therefore you wouldn't notice it was cashing in on that series since you already would have known to expect those toys/characters to show up. Change in marketing, that's what you need to be aware of. Nick markets toys based on it's series the same as Fred Wolf/Playmates did, except the marketing strategy was different.

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

They made up all sorts of weird wacky ghosts that were never in the actual show.

That's true. Even Ecto-3 looked nothing like the cartoon version and it was used what, two times?

Originally Posted by neatoman

I never bothered to check it out because I've always been pretty satisfied with the original but never felt a need for more, the movie ends with the Ghostbusters banishing a god in the body of a marshmallow mascot, I've never really imagined how you could top that.

Simple: you take great writers from the time (or in your case hack writers) and carry on the mythology with new bad guys and villains.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by pferreira

Considering you're inability to understand that the Fred Wolf series was capable of good writing and wasn't just made to sell toys you'd probably think the same thing as RGB. The latter by the way is seen by the public and critics as a great and memorable series that's still watchable today like Ninja Turtles.

This is laughable. The general public and most critics have not seen the show since childhood, if you think they would consider the show well written, I would gladly know where you got that impression. Most people I talk to who watched it as children can barely remember it, and the most in depth review I've seen of the series is Mark Pellegrini's and he's pretty clear on his affinity for the show has far more to do with nostalgia than the actual excecution.

Originally Posted by Mark Pellegrini

But, looking back through the sobering lens of adulthood at the long-lasting animated series that sparked my lifelong pastime, I can’t help but notice that…It’s kind of ****. And more often than not, particularly during the middle seasons, you can easily drop the “kind of” from that appraisal.

Adapted from the original Mirage comics by the animation industry’s most notorious writing hack, David Wise, the Fred Wolf series regularly suffered from embarrassingly low production values, scripts cloned a thousand times over from previous productions (a trademark of the patently slothful David Wise), a severely rushed quality on nearly all aspects and, as made-for-syndicated programming of the 80s typically encouraged, a value of quantity over quality.

I'm not even sure it's true that it's all that memorable or iconic in the eyes of the public to be honest, if anything it seems to have started slipping into obscurity seeing how blatant throwbacks to it are failing draw attention.

As for the toyline marketing... Are you serious? Do you honestly believe a toy fair is the difference in the strategy? Pretty sure those existed in 1988 as well. And that "not restricted by the toyline gibberish"? Tattoo is just a small sample of toy marketing in an episode entirely made for toy marketing, a perfect example of the toys being put before the show. Yes, it still fricking sucks that after 30 years we have yet to have a show where the toyline doesn't inject itself into the show, but despite all the episodes Nickelodeon produced in the name of markting some lame action figure that was just going to get tossed aside, I can at least say they didn't obliously rush any episodes. At least none of the episodes contain internal contradictions, at least none of the episodes are at odds with other episodes, at least none of the episodes contain immedietly noticable animation errors, at least none of the episodes, etc. Yes, both shows were made explicitly for the purpose of marketing a toyline and that's not a good thing when the toyline could just use the show for a basis, but at the very least they at least tried to make it presentable as an actual show this time around. And don't give me that "it was the times" or "it was the budget excuse" crap, if you release a show in such a sorry state where it has shoppy animation and still needs to rely on still frames in places alongside obvious animation errors to meet the deadline then you don't care about making a good show.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by neatoman

This is laughable. The general public and most critics have not seen the show since childhood

Most can probably not even remember an episode (knowing its official name and its main-storyline).

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

Most can probably not even remember an episode (knowing its official name and its main-storyline).

Agreed, even ignoring the name of the episode (let's face it, what kid even bothers to memorise the title card?), just the basic story of an episode seems to be difficult for them to recall.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Agreed, even ignoring the name of the episode (let's face it, what kid even bothers to memorise the title card?), just the basic story of an episode seems to be difficult for them to recall.

I guess the situation is worse in Sweden, since the merchandise there in general was smaller.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Agreed, even ignoring the name of the episode (let's face it, what kid even bothers to memorise the title card?), just the basic story of an episode seems to be difficult for them to recall.

Three eps that never left my memory from childhood, titles and all, are Cowabunga Shredhead, Mr. Nice Guy, and Raphael Meets His Match. They really stood out for me.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by ssjup81

Three eps that never left my memory from childhood, titles and all, are Cowabunga Shredhead, Mr. Nice Guy, and Raphael Meets His Match. They really stood out for me.

But we're talking about those who aren't active fanse still today.