Does anyone else feel disillusioned with their fandom?

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

It seems less to me that it should be, "The Rise of the TMNT Shredder got defeated by ridiculous hijinks in 2019 because the 1987 cartoon did that sort of thing, too!" and more "Why would the people behind Rise of the TMNT do that, when what was done in 1987 to that end was ridiculous and cringe-worthy to look back on now?"

But again, no horse in the race. Just weird to observe this from the sidelines.

It’s almost as though, the Rise team KNEW they were in trouble, for not following the expectations of fans, and are winking, through gritted teeth, as they mock us for not embracing their garbage.

ALMOST.

[CyberCubed]

I always had this fantasy about being the lone survivor of the TMNT fandom. Like one day when I'm a 96 year old man, in the far flung future of 2060 something, and the TMNT franchise is some relic of the ancient past, I will still be there shouting from the mountaintops and educating people of "TMNT lore" and what the series was about.

I shall step out of the ashes and carry the burden of the franchise on my back for all of eternity.

[Xav]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

That's exactly what I said. Respawning generations of 5-9 year-olds. I'm saying is that if they were smart, they could keep one generation of TMNT fans and lock them into the long term if they had stuff that appealed to an older sensibility as opposed to offering literally nothing.

Don't older fans have the IDW fans?

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by snake

Alright, man. Go whack off to Rainbow Brite or some other poorly animated 80s cartoon.

Funny you say that, I have the Rainbow Brite movie on DVD, and I find it to be of excellent quality.

With that said, with the name of the franchise, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, you would think the powers that be would actually focus on the fact the Turtles are teenagers, and maybe they should aim at that crowd. Same crowd that is big into the massive superhero movies or made hits out of mega franchises like LOTR, Harry Potter and StarWars. This is the crowd that will have staying power and also have the power to buy stuff, big purchases too like video games and tickets to comic book conventions.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by Dejablue

Having 2 different shows with 2 different tones running more or less at the same time. Would be interesting. But also expensive?

You'd make up for the cost with advertisement. And now that you have two different demographics you want to aim at, you can appeal to a much broader choice of advertisement.

Heck, I'd love it if one day Nick secured the rights to everything TMNT and had one giant marathon, starting with FW and ending with Rise or the Bay turtles (the latter I'm actually starting to like )

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

Only one small problem with your example though, is that Rise is not "replacing" any other version of tmnt, which are all still out there to enjoy.

So Rise may be Diarrhea for you and thats all cool, but no one's taking away your chocolate.

But, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Nick canceled the 2012 Turtles, which I personally liked and would have liked them see let that version grow up, to bring in Rise. I even think they purposefully cancelled 2012 because Nick wants to dab into some of the SJW stuff that is going on.

[Rooish]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

But, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Nick canceled the 2012 Turtles, which I personally liked and would have liked them see let that version grow up, to bring in Rise. I even think they purposefully cancelled 2012 because Nick wants to dab into some of the SJW stuff that is going on.

Really? Rise is irreverent and hyper and hardly SJW at all, unless you mean black April, but does anyone really care about April enough to rightly care what they do to her? Now she's a teenager, then she's a reporter, now she's a scientist, now she's black. Whatever. At least she is a decently fun character in Rise.

This does remind me that what most disillusions me about the fandom is the recent hatred against SJWs, as though their supposed annoyingness automatically invalidates all their arguments. I think the only people who really hate SJWs have a lot of privilege in some areas and aren't negatively impacted by the issues that SJWs care about.

I think the TMNT has always been about inclusiveness and diversity and "chosen family" and things that so called SJWs care about.

Pretty sure the 2012 series got rebooted because of slumping viewership and the need for new toys and shorter episodes, not to appeal to the supposed 5 year old SJWs. That said, Rise is funny in its own right but a complete travesty as a version of TMNT.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

But, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Nick canceled the 2012 Turtles, which I personally liked and would have liked them see let that version grow up, to bring in Rise. I even think they purposefully cancelled 2012 because Nick wants to dab into some of the SJW stuff that is going on.

Can I ask why people want more 2k12 turtles, the main plot is over and any chance of resolution was wasted when they made season 5 a mix of mini arcs and what ifs stories.

Originally Posted by Rooish

That said, Rise is funny in its own right but a complete travesty as a version of TMNT.

How is it a travesty of a version of TMNT when literally the first adaption is so different from the source material that it's basically night and day.Keep in mind the turtles looked like this at one point of the franchise so the thought of this being a "travesty as a version of TMNT" is almost bizarre.

[Rooish]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

Can I ask why people want more 2k12 turtles, the main plot is over and any chance of resolution was wasted when they made season 5 a mix of mini arcs and what ifs stories.



How is it a travesty of a version of TMNT when literally the first adaption is so different from the source material that it's basically night and day.Keep in mind the turtles looked like this at one point of the franchise so the thought of this being a "travesty as a version of TMNT" is almost bizarre.

https://www.adventuresinpoortaste.co...man-legend.jpg

Lol, I forgot about the anime turtles. I guess the franchise survived nonetheless.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

But, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Nick canceled the 2012 Turtles, which I personally liked and would have liked them see let that version grow up, to bring in Rise.

Probably. Declining ratings and toy sales, Nick eager to usher in the new line with a fresh new show and all.

Originally Posted by PApagreg

How is it a travesty of a version of TMNT when literally the first adaption is so different from the source material that it's basically night and day.

It's true. And then, you know, there's the whole... the source material is for teenagers to adults, and everything else is for 5 year-olds thing.

Originally Posted by Rooish

This does remind me that what most disillusions me about the fandom is the recent hatred against SJWs,

What annoys me about SJWs is their recent rise.

as though their supposed annoyingness automatically invalidates all their arguments. I think the only people who really hate SJWs have a lot of privilege in some areas and aren't negatively impacted by the issues that SJWs care about.

That sounds like something an SJW would say. Though I think the invalidation comes from the well known basic stance of... SJWs perpetually looking for the chinks in the armor of things (words like "mansplaining," "toxic masculinity," "it fails the Bechdel test," "white savior," "there's not enough diversity!" "why, why can't there be a gay character?!" "this joke is problematic, and here's why," etc.) to try and tear a thing down, regardless of quality. It's just what they do. It's what they've always done.

As in, you come to the table with that... go home.

[snake]

SJWs don't even exist. An SJW is literally an invisible boogeyman that lives only in hypothetical on the internet. Those clickbait headlines written by some soyboy that explain why some 80s movie is problematic, or why the latest Marvel output needs more trans-black women? They want your clicks. It's a f*cking business. Do you think anyone, let alone people in positions of power and media relevancy, actually believes these things? The ones that do are the leftist equivalent to Nazi LARP'ers on Stormfront, and are probably unironic commies.

I heard everyone talking sh*t on HBO's Watchmen. How it was taking a beloved property and using it to shill a political agenda, and SJW this, and SJW that. Guess what? I watched it, and it's amazing. The people writing the show clearly know what they're doing, and aren't drumming up controversy by making a laughable reference to "incels" or the "alt right", and treat the theme of race with maturity. You want the cinematic equivalent of clickbait headlines? The new Star Wars trilogy is the perfect example. Written entirely by incompetant idiots who happen to both be in power, and believe everything written by some f*ckwad straight out of California. I guess it makes sense, because all it takes is one bitch (Kathleen Kennedy) to bring in all her c*nt friends, and sooner or later they're all going to start stinking up the place, believing they're doing good or some virtue signalling bullsh*t like that.

The point is, I don't think black April was a "political" decision, and more one of "someone had this design laying around and thought it was cute and decided to use it". The president of Viacom isn't going around championing Apirl as some sort of black icon, or some publicity bullsh*t they'd pull with the FemBusters or Captain Marvel. She's treated just like a normal character, like she should.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by snake

SJWs don't even exist.

Oh, they exist. I know plenty that proudly bear the title, even. They love it.

I heard everyone talking sh*t on HBO's Watchmen. How it was taking a beloved property and using it to shill a political agenda, and SJW this, and SJW that.

Oh, it was. God was it. Unless things completely changed course after episode 2 and I'm wrong (but I doubt it). The first two episodes alone... man, I've never seen a thing so chock full of white guilt and virtue signalling in my life. It took everything for me to watch the second episode but I can't fathom continuing it any further.

[snake]

The first episode was pretty bad, but it certainly doesn't have the "vibe" something like GB2016 or NuWars has. The show dealing with race is fine, because it reflects something relevant to today's political climate like how the comic dealt with nuclear war.

The main character isn't going around saying "F*ck white men", or anything on-the-nose, and is a pretty cool main character overall. Nothing compelling, but it's nowhere near as bad as I heard.

The Seventh Calvary hate group isn't even ridiculous or comical. They don't have a secret underground 4chan knock-off, or talk about how there's too many women in movies these days. They're literally a bunch of anti-police white supremacists wearing Rorschach masks. It makes sense in universe, because Rorschach's journal obviously would have been misinterpreted when printed in a sensationalist right-wing newspaper. The show doesn't portray the police state as a good thing either.

It's a well written show, and the love and understanding for the comic is there, especially with all of the synchronicity, themes, and visual motifs. The Ozymandias scenes in particular are genuinely amazing.

I'd watch it all the way through. Just because it brings racial tensions to logical conclusions in a universe where President Robert Redford starts using taxpayer dollars to give out "we're sorry" money for victims of race riots doesn't mean it's garbage.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

Can I ask why people want more 2k12 turtles, the main plot is over and any chance of resolution was wasted when they made season 5 a mix of mini arcs and what ifs stories.

For starters, the animation in 2012 doesn't look disgusting (don't like the Rise animation at all, it's like I'm watching the Looney Toons version of the TMNT) I also liked the voice actors much more and I also loved how it threw Easter Eggs in there for the fans like bringing in Corey Feldman as a cameo. ANd near the end of the series, it screamed of studio interference, which is always a death sentence for a property.

How is it a travesty of a version of TMNT when literally the first adaption is so different from the source material that it's basically night and day.Keep in mind the turtles looked like this at one point of the franchise so the thought of this being a "travesty as a version of TMNT" is almost bizarre.

Let's see, Fred Wolf cartoon came out when I was like 9, and I did love it. But then the 1990 movie came out, and just like Tim Burton's Batman, the new dark tone of the movie peaked my interest. Since then, just like many other fans, I prefer the more intelligent approach. Now, Batman went through clunkers like Batman Forever and Batman and Robin before they went back to the drawing board and put the movies into Nolan's hands, and then they made box office gold. Sadly, the TMNT has yet to get that on the big screen, and it's due to stupid studio runners who instead of letting the show grow, would rather hold it back to the point the audience grows beyond it, and then instead of taking the same show back to the drawing board and find ways to bring that audience back, they turn around and make something so absurd that it's hardly recognizable. Say what you want, but for the most part at least the Fred Wolf series kept the Turtles in their same ranks (Leo the leader) and made sure they had their signature weapons. Taking Raphael's sais away is like removing Wolverine's claws and healing factor.

Either way, looks like you are in the minority when it comes to people who actually liked the Rise series. The fact that it looks like it's going to cancelled shows that people rejected this new iteration of the Turtles, and I am glad. That will teach them a lesson on changing something up so much on a beloved franchise.

[CyberCubed]

I don't think Rise made much an impact even on kids to matter, it airs at obscure times and doesn't have anywhere the amount of following the 2012 cartoon did.

Then again I'm not 8-12 years old anymore, so if kids of today like it, that's fine.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

For starters, the animation in 2012 doesn't look disgusting (don't like the Rise animation at all, it's like I'm watching the Looney Toons version of the TMNT) I also liked the voice actors much more and I also loved how it threw Easter Eggs in there for the fans like bringing in Corey Feldman as a cameo. ANd near the end of the series, it screamed of studio interference, which is always a death sentence for a property

Well I don't see how Rise looks disgusting but there are tons of Easter Eggs(don't know why that would be important) like savage Raph for an example also the season 5 plan was by the creators themselves I doubt the studio would interfer

Originally Posted by Warhorse

Say what you want, but for the most part at least the Fred Wolf series kept the Turtles in their same ranks (Leo the leader) and made sure they had their signature weapons. Taking Raphael's sais away is like removing Wolverine's claws and healing factor.

1. Didn't the FW show change Mikey's nunchucks in later seasons

2. Wolverine's claws and healing factor isn't just something that is iconic but relates to his feral character and which can't be the same for Raph's sais despite being iconic. Heck once you think about it Raph's weapon fits him the least out of all the turtles, Leo's swords show his Bushido nature, Don's Bo staff show his pacifisim and even Mikey's nun chucks shows of his fun personality and natural talent. Sai's aren't really weapons that you use to go feral because they are mostly blunt instruments are mostly used to parry other weapons which I scene Raph do one time in one iteration(2k12). If anything things like axes or funnily enough tonfa would be more apt to Raph's personality because they show off his blunt and simple nature.

Originally Posted by Warhorse

Either way, looks like you are in the minority when it comes to people who actually liked the Rise series. The fact that it looks like it's going to cancelled shows that people rejected this new iteration of the Turtles, and I am glad. That will teach them a lesson on changing something up so much on a beloved franchise.

Yeah that should teach them never mind the fact the OT did it years ago but you guys still loved that and never mind that since this decade started pretty much every iteration before Rise was just a Frankenstein monster of what came before it. I hope the people who worked on Rise learn to never do anything new or experimental and do the same thing over and over again.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

1. Didn't the FW show change Mikey's nunchucks in later seasons

Yeah, but nobody was watching it anymore. Except some of you guys.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

Well I don't see how Rise looks disgusting but there are tons of Easter Eggs(don't know why that would be important) like savage Raph for an example also the season 5 plan was by the creators themselves I doubt the studio would interfer

Savage Raph isn't exactly an Easter Egg. And you have no idea how studios will interfere with a show or movie for some BS reason. Most of the time is because a CEO has a huge ego and wants to abuse his power.

1. Didn't the FW show change Mikey's nunchucks in later seasons

Yes, mostly due to UK's ban on anything Ninja and cinema had some prejudice against nunchucks. In fact, there was a time with the TMNT were known as Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles And guess what, fans HATED that too and these changes ended up being the down fall for the Turtles. They would rather listen to soccer moms instead of the actual fans who were collecting the toys and comics.

2. Wolverine's claws and healing factor isn't just something that is iconic but relates to his feral character and which can't be the same for Raph's sais despite being iconic. Heck once you think about it Raph's weapon fits him the least out of all the turtles, Leo's swords show his Bushido nature, Don's Bo staff show his pacifisim and even Mikey's nun chucks shows of his fun personality and natural talent. Sai's aren't really weapons that you use to go feral because they are mostly blunt instruments are mostly used to parry other weapons which I scene Raph do one time in one iteration(2k12). If anything things like axes or funnily enough tonfa would be more apt to Raph's personality because they show off his blunt and simple nature.

Bull shiznit on all of this. You're just pulling crap out of your anus now and you know it. And, I'm starting to wonder if you secretly work on Rise of the Turtles and some of these moronic ideas came from you and its why you are all defensive that the majority have spoken and said HELL TO THE NO on the changes.

Yeah that should teach them never mind the fact the OT did it years ago but you guys still loved that and never mind that since this decade started pretty much every iteration before Rise was just a Frankenstein monster of what came before it. I hope the people who worked on Rise learn to never do anything new or experimental and do the same thing over and over again.

Like I said before, the Fred Wolf was the first iteration to the mass public of the TMNT lore. They set the bench mark. But when the 1990 movie came out, it opened up a whole new world to the fans, the gritty more based on the comic book, and since then, people been screaming for that and not the watered down version. Same thing happened with Batman. The black and white show was the first to introduce the character and the world to the masses. At the time, people loved it, but then came Tim Burton's more mature Batman, and since then, people have wanted only that version. And we are okay with something new, but not completely alienating the original fans all together, nor making something that is reductive in quality, not productive.

Sad thing, I think whoever is in charge of the TMNT programming know what the fans want, the biggest thing is more in line with the earlier seasons of the 2k3 show. And, the reason why they won't release it in bluray is because then the hard core numbers will come out and their egos can't handle that kind of truth, even though it's stupid on their part because statistics, logistics and recognizing purchasing patterns is the best way to cater to the audience that is going to spend the most money on your product. Shame these CEO's would rather lose out on money than admit their stupid decisions of change blew up miserably in their faces.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

Savage Raph isn't exactly an Easter Egg. And you have no idea how studios will interfere with a show or movie for some BS reason. Most of the time is because a CEO has a huge ego and wants to abuse his power.

You don't know either, why would CEO interference include Tiger Claw reviving Shredder, Miyamoto Usagi appearances an episode about Splinter raising the turtles and a post post apocalyptic mini arc starring Raph none of those make sense.

Originally Posted by Warhorse

Yes, mostly due to UK's ban on anything Ninja and cinema had some prejudice against nunchucks. In fact, there was a time with the TMNT were known as Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles And guess what, fans HATED that too and these changes ended up being the down fall for the Turtles. They would rather listen to soccer moms instead of the actual fans who were collecting the toys and comics.

Mikey's chucks got replaced in season 4 and they still had 6 seasons of the show left despite it being the "downfall" for the turtles

Originally Posted by Warhorse

Bull shiznit on all of this. You're just pulling crap out of your anus now and you know it. And, I'm starting to wonder if you secretly work on Rise of the Turtles and some of these moronic ideas came from you and its why you are all defensive that the majority have spoken and said HELL TO THE NO on the changes.

What's with you Gen Xers and making dumb conspiracies whenever people have a different interpretation/opinion than you. Seriously if you are going full Alex Jones then at least try to refute some of my argumentsand explain why you disagree with them before you go through your tin foil tantrum.

Originally Posted by Warhorse

Like I said before, the Fred Wolf was the first iteration to the mass public of the TMNT lore. They set the bench mark. But when the 1990 movie came out, it opened up a whole new world to the fans, the gritty more based on the comic book, and since then, people been screaming for that and not the watered down version. Same thing happened with Batman. The black and white show was the first to introduce the character and the world to the masses. At the time, people loved it, but then came Tim Burton's more mature Batman, and since then, people have wanted only that version. And we are okay with something new, but not completely alienating the original fans all together, nor making something that is reductive in quality, not productive.

So its okay for the adaption to change when you grew up with it, at least Andrew is consistent also for the past decade every iteration before Rise catered to you "original fans" but one little adaption where the creators decided to experiment a little and you guys act like its "alienating" you. Also compare to 2k12 Rise is productive in quality.

Originally Posted by Warhorse

Sad thing, I think whoever is in charge of the TMNT programming know what the fans want, the biggest thing is more in line with the earlier seasons of the 2k3 show. And, the reason why they won't release it in bluray is because then the hard core numbers will come out and their egos can't handle that kind of truth, even though it's stupid on their part because statistics, logistics and recognizing purchasing patterns is the best way to cater to the audience that is going to spend the most money on your product. Shame these CEO's would rather lose out on money than admit their stupid decisions of change blew up miserably in their faces.:lol

Let me get this straight my interpretation of why Raph's sais doesn't fit him is me "talking out of my anus" but you talking about things such as "statistics, logistics and recognizing purchasing patterns" with no hint of evidence or sources isn't, okay.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

You don't know either, why would CEO interference include Tiger Claw reviving Shredder, Miyamoto Usagi appearances an episode about Splinter raising the turtles and a post post apocalyptic mini arc starring Raph none of those make sense.

And you don't know if the CEO's have more imprint or not yourself.

Mikey's chucks got replaced in season 4 and they still had 6 seasons of the show left despite it being the "downfall" for the turtles

Was it the downfall for sure? Probably not? More than likely the Next Mutation was the one that did it and took Peter Laird's personal involvement with 2k3 to bring the franchise back to something that people with intelligence could enjoy. But, like it or not, people did notice Mikey changing his nunchucks and they were not happy about it. And we know it's because of soccer moms crying and whining. Same ones that are now behind the COPPA movement that is going to become a nightmare for anyone who makes a cartoon and it's not geared for kids.

What's with you Gen Xers and making dumb conspiracies whenever people have a different interpretation/opinion than you. Seriously if you are going full Alex Jones then at least try to refute some of my argumentsand explain why you disagree with them before you go through your tin foil tantrum.

Yep! I think you definitely have some kind of behind the scenes involvement with this show. You are very defensive and now throwing insults. How cute!

So its okay for the adaption to change when you grew up with it, at least Andrew is consistent also for the past decade every iteration before Rise catered to you "original fans" but one little adaption where the creators decided to experiment a little and you guys act like its "alienating" you. Also compare to 2k12 Rise is productive in quality.

Stop with the BS. The 2k12 changed the ages of April, Casey and Karai, and we were just fine with it. In fact, I really enjoyed that aspect. I also liked the idea in the 2014 movie that the Turtles were April's pets and it was neat how they managed to somehow mesh her scientific roots from the comics through her father while retaining her FW reporter roots. But guess what, I too thought it was stupid to make Shredder into a white guy, so some changes are good, some, not so good.

And oh, if it wasn't for us original fans that helped make the TMNT into the huge cult hit it's become, you wouldn't even have your stupid Rise of the TMNT!

Let me get this straight my interpretation of why Raph's sais doesn't fit him is me "talking out of my anus" but you talking about things such as "statistics, logistics and recognizing purchasing patterns" with no hint of evidence or sources isn't, okay.

For starters, your BS story on why Raph's sais don't fit is ludicrous. I have to tip my hat to Lair and Eastman, because they took a simple and stupid drawing on napkins of turtles with masks on, and then managed to create a set of characters that are very dynamic, but also seemed to use their opposites to create a pretty good team. Leo and Raph are the alpha males on the team. Leo's weapon is the Katana, which suits his calm personality while Raphael is the exact opposite of him, including his weapon which is interesting enough, designed to block and disarm sword wielders.

As for the other part. Why won't Nick sell the 2k3 as a bluRay collectors set? Probably same reasons why Kathleen Kennedy is giving Star Wars fans a big middle finger, or Disney buying out Fox and then decides to put most of Fox's catalog in their vaults. Egos. And these companies are also run by stock holders, whereas those who are on an ego boost would not want to see what a stock analyst might think if the 2k3 BluRays are selling so fast and they will demand more in this direction.

But then again, this could be why Rise was being shown at odd times on Nick. Maybe somebody in the company knew this was not the direction they want the TMNT to go down, but maybe their arms are tied because of some contractual obligation with a show runner. Could also be why they might be looking at Netflix. Be a clever way to start catering the TMNT to a more mature audience without alarming the soccer moms. But then again, we have COPPA to contend with, and I'm not sure if their influence could hurt the likes of how Netflix markets it's programming.