WandaVision

[AquaParade]

Episode 3 was a lot of fun. I feel like the first three episodes have been more or less the same thing, but they're clearly building up and the execution has been good. I'm excited to see where this goes. It feels fresh and different for the MCU.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Originally Posted by frank_one

Maybe the original team was trapped on the Krakoa island like in Giant-size X-men #1 and a new team is recruited by Xavier to save the them like in the 1975 comics.

I don't really see them doing that. The only really logical ways to bring in the X-Men, continuity wise, would be to either bring them from another universe(a cheap move, maybe, but it would at least keep from mucking up the timeline more than they have already) OR.... They could say their mutant genes didn't kick in until the "Snappening". That would give them the five year gap between for their mutations to awaken, and they could spend the time training. So they just weren't ready to fight yet. That's how I would sell it, anyway.

[Leo656]

It's okay. One day, Disney will have enough money to build a time machine so they can go back in time and talk Marvel out of selling all their properties to different movie studios back in the 90s. While they're there, Disney will also just buy Marvel outright about 20 years ahead of schedule, since in 1996 they probably could have had them for about a buck and a quarter. After that they'll just kickstart the MCU early, somewhere around the year 2000.

On one hand, this will mean the Raimi Spider-Man movies never happened.

On the OTHER hand, it will mean that the X-Men movies AND the Fantastic Four movies never happened.

All in all, a Net Win for everybody! You know that this is already well past the planning stages by now. This is what's going to happen.

We just won't know about it when it does, on account of our own timeline being either erased or folded into the new one once all of that actually comes to pass.

I will not miss my memories of X-Men 3. So that's fine.

[Andrew NDB]

Can anyone remind me why Marvel Studios even sold out to Disney? I vaguely remember Feige and the whole studio gambling everything on the success of Iron Man 1 and Incredible Hulk thing (like if they failed, they'd have to sell)... but it paid off, and then they sold anyway?

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Can anyone remind me why Marvel Studios even sold out to Disney? I vaguely remember Feige and the whole studio gambling everything on the success of Iron Man 1 and Incredible Hulk thing (like if they failed, they'd have to sell)... but it paid off, and then they sold anyway?

Fiege didn't have half the power he had back then, others were making the decisions....hell the comic book writers had more power over the Studio projects back then.

[TigerClaw]

I'm expecting the final for WandaVision to have some kind of "No More Mutants" moment. But given we don't have Mutants in the MCU yet. Its gonna be something else entirely.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

I'm expecting the final for WandaVision to have some kind of "No More Mutants" moment. But given we don't have Mutants in the MCU yet. Its gonna be something else entirely.

Maybe that moment will actually somehow introduce mutants to the MCU rather than wipe them out.

[Galactus]

I've had a suspicion something like that would happen for a while not. However I still believe that the best way to do it is that mutants are out there in secret Xavier in the school training up the X-Men, Magneto training the Brotherhood in secret.

The big challenge of MCU mutants is to get the regular audience to 'get' why the majority of the public has little problem with humans with powers but are prejudiced against mutants or how they even distinguish between the two. How do they know Spider-Man isn't a mutant but instantly know Wolverine is. The explanations for all this is waifer thin and never really made sense even in the comics so I'd be interested to see how the MCU handles it.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Galactus

The big challenge of MCU mutants is to get the regular audience to 'get' why the majority of the public has little problem with humans with powers but are prejudiced against mutants or how they even distinguish between the two. How do they know Spider-Man isn't a mutant but instantly know Wolverine is. The explanations for all this is waifer thin and never really made sense even in the comics so I'd be interested to see how the MCU handles it.

Possibly my biggest problem with the entire Marvel comic book universe is that inconsistency right there. It makes NO sense why the general public within the Marvel Universe loves Spider Man and the Avengers but can't stand those "Dirty Muties". It's f*cking STUPID. Like it's SO obvious that the X-Men stories shouldn't even take place in the same universe as the rest of the Marvel U, they only do because of publishing rights. But it doesn't fit at ALL. It would be like if within the DCU, Superman was beloved but Martian Manhunter was "an alien menace", or some dumb sh*t. They're almost the same freakin' GUY. A little internal consistency, PLEASE. Like, I get that X-Men is a political allegory for oppressed/marginalized peoples more than anything else, more even than it is a "super-hero story" I guess, but it goes to show how staying slavishly devoted to that allegory has caused serious consistency problems for the larger Marvel brand. People hating Cyclops while cheering for Iron Man makes no goddamn sense, in-universe.

The BEST, though, is how in-universe, the whole story is bluntly and directly "Mutants Are People, Too!", that's literally the whole point... and yet, in court, Marvel said the exact opposite so they'd get to pay lower tariffs on X-Men action figures. Seriously! At one point there was a court case about whether or not the Mutants are actually human beings, since toys based on human beings are more expensive to produce and ship, but "non-humans" are cheaper. SO, in spite of what they've been putting on the printed page as gospel for decades and what the overall message of the X-Men comic is supposed to teach to kids and the rest of the audience - "Mutants Are Just People Like Anyone Else" - when it came down to saving a few bucks, Marvel stood up in court and said "Of COURSE the Mutants aren't actually human beings, what're you, nuts? Look at 'em, they're clearly freaks and monsters, not people." Greed-driven hypocrisy for the motherf*cking WIN. I love that kinda sh*t.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Can anyone remind me why Marvel Studios even sold out to Disney? I vaguely remember Feige and the whole studio gambling everything on the success of Iron Man 1 and Incredible Hulk thing (like if they failed, they'd have to sell)... but it paid off, and then they sold anyway?

The same reason why Marvel contradicted their entire publishing history by testifying in court that the X-Men aren't really human beings:



These answers need not be complicated. It's generally Exactly What You'd Think It Is.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Possibly my biggest problem with the entire Marvel comic book universe is that inconsistency right there. It makes NO sense why the general public within the Marvel Universe loves Spider Man and the Avengers but can't stand those "Dirty Muties".

It makes sense to me. Captain America got his powers by being given an experimental super serum and hit with Gamma Rays, Spider-Man got his by being bitten by a one of a kind radioactive spider, Iron Man built a suit, and so on, and so on.

But mutants? Anybody could end up being a mutant. The guy next to you could be a omega-level supermutant one day and destroy a city, for all you know. Alternately, your son or daughter could also one day turn out to be a mutant (this is where the woke writers have always loved X-Men... their favorite thing to do is parallel being a mutant with being gay, and "the cure" with gay conversion therapy and all that). And it's a gene.

On a government-level (Sentinels, high level G men, etc.)? The immediate push would be to identify and round up mutants, for classification and study (as in, "Are they evil and do they have mutant nuclear powers that will kill a million people one day?" -- they kind of need to make sure the answer is a "no") and/or therapy to ensure they're no danger to themselves or others. This isn't remotely the same thing as the people who get powers in completely random situations ala the Avengers... mutants are everywhere and half of them are probably going to end up being bad guys and this would horrify the government(s). The occasional Spider-Man or even Captain Marvel popping up once every couple of decades is one thing... this is quite another.

Originally Posted by IMJ

Maybe that moment will actually somehow introduce mutants to the MCU rather than wipe them out.

I'm really, really hoping that's not what they do. Just popping open the door to some other dimension and the X-Men jumping through it into the main MCU universe... that's ridiculously dumb. Alternately, exploring another dimension and meeting the X-Men there and just leaving that dimension as the dimension that future movies will explore as its own separate thing... also dumb.

X-Men Movie #1, just begin with Professor X making a speech that after the Thanos debacle, mutants can no longer afford to hide in the shadows as they have for decades... that they are among you and are (mostly) your friends. Maybe cut to Nick Fury stepping to a mic, chiming in, "Yeah... they've been out there. Today, I'm de-classifying the X-Men." And we just go from there. Simple. Future MCU movies could even have flashbacks to when MCU characters encountered mutants but didn't make a big deal about it. Like Storm in Black Panther 2, etc..

Although sh**... maybe I've just figured out what they're going to do. Maybe they're going to indeed reveal a second Earth as an Earth that doesn't have the Avengers, but instead has the X-Men and the Fantastic Four. We'll get a couple of movies out of each, and then there will be the big X-Men vs. Avengers movie... and they'll merge the two worlds together and that will be the explanation.

[Leo656]

Ehhhhhh... You're still dealing with people who are "extra-enabled" and "more than human" in either case. Why are some people who can fly and shoot fireballs REALLY that much Better or Worse than others? Because of the specific "How" in regards to how they ended up that way? Ehhhhhh.

I get your point, but I still feel like it only makes sense if you squint. If anything, I think people would be MORE accepting of Mutants if it were an "It could happen to anyone" type of thing, because of "There But For The Grace Go I" and all of that. They'd probably resent people like Captain America, Iron Man and so on for being "chosen" to be "special people"; they'd conversely have empathy for people who had no say whatsoever in the matter.

Again, I understand how you see it. You also pay a lot closer attention to Marvel than I do or ever did. As a relative neophyte, their universe and the motivations of people and characters within said universe make NO goddamn sense to me whatsoever. If this were Real Life, the common rabble would most likely accept and empathize with Mutants but they'd hate Captain America and Iron Man and so forth. That's how I look at it. IF there were any schism whatsoever between "specially-abled" people within said universe. And I still kinda don't think there really ought'a be. There's Freaks and Normies and that's that, as far as I'm concerned; once you start dividing up the people who can fly and say "These Ones are bad because they got their powers by accident but These Others are good because it was on purpose", or whatever, it's just muddying things up too much and it's all very silly.

Like, in DC there's humans and "Metahumans" and that's that. When the public in the DCU every so often decides they're fed up with guys who wear capes, they turn on Batman just as much as Superman. You're on one side or the other of the "Capes and Masks Brigade", whether you have powers or not, got them by accident or on purpose or born that way... you're either a "meta" or a civilian and That's That. There's no further splitting of hairs and I prefer it be that way.

[Andrew NDB]

Also, unless I missed it... the Sekovia Accords are still in place, aren't they? I didn't see them getting torn up during Infinity War or Endgame, even if things were dire for everybody.

i.e., the Avengers are a government sponsored entity. Mutants would not be.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

And that right there is the crux of it. Mutants can't be controlled like a random "accidental" or experimentally powered human. They are literally an entire "race" unto themselves- amd one with frightening implications for the rest of humanity, at that. The whole POINT of the Xavier vs Magneto debate is whether or not mutants should be RULING humans, perhaps even exterminating them, or simply trying to coexist and work WITH them. This is why so many humans in the MU are afraid of mutants, because they never know which side of that equation a mutant will fall on, or if they might ALL decide to rise up and take over one day. (M Day, aka House of M was a good example of how that would end up, and it's why so many on both sides were horrified by the prospect. Now imagine the average Joe getting caught up in that, and seeing it come true!)

[Coola Yagami]

I kinda feel in the MCU Captain America and Iron Man (and by default War Machine) get a pass cause at least in the movies it kinda looks like schools teach about Captain America and everybody knows Iron Man is a guy in a suit.

But in a world where mutants exist, there is no reason at all to not think Hulk, Thor, Vision, Spider-Man or even Ant Man are mutants. Sure, WE know about the radioactive spiders and gamma rays and Ant Man is using some shrink suit, but the world at large doesn't.

Come to think of it, it doesn't even make sense people at a mall or whatever have zero problem posing with a friendly, but still very oversized and friendly Hulk but would wish death upon Jubilee for example.

In the comics it also doesn't make sense cause the characters are so interchangeable. Members of the X-Men have been Avengers before, Spider-Man is a 'menace' but he's an Avenger too and so forth.

[frank_one]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

But in a world where mutants exist, there is no reason at all to not think Hulk, Thor, Vision, Spider-Man or even Ant Man are mutants. Sure, WE know about the radioactive spiders and gamma rays and Ant Man is using some shrink suit, but the world at large doesn't.

Very good point. As far as people know Spider-man could have been born with his powers so he could be a mutant. No one knows he got bitten by a radioactive spider. Actually people know very little about superheroes' origins.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by frank_one

Very good point. As far as people know Spider-man could have been born with his powers so he could be a mutant. No one knows he got bitten by a radioactive spider. Actually people know very little about superheroes' origins.

But they'd know he was one of the Avengers, a government overseen entity and would have been vetted accordingly. i.e., not just some random scary mutant.

And he was. Fury apparently had been watching him from the very start.

[sdp]

the x-men universe being a part of the Marvel Universe has never made sense no matter how many convoluted explanations they write to explain it.

[TigerClaw]

The issues with bringing Mutants into the MCU is nobody won't be able to distinguish between humans who have powers to the mutants who also have powers. Same goes with Inhumans. With Ms Marvel coming up. They either change her origin of being an Inhuman or they find a way to introduce Inhumans to the MCU even though they ignored the Inhumans TV show.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

And that right there is the crux of it. Mutants can't be controlled like a random "accidental" or experimentally powered human. They are literally an entire "race" unto themselves- amd one with frightening implications for the rest of humanity, at that. The whole POINT of the Xavier vs Magneto debate is whether or not mutants should be RULING humans, perhaps even exterminating them, or simply trying to coexist and work WITH them. This is why so many humans in the MU are afraid of mutants, because they never know which side of that equation a mutant will fall on, or if they might ALL decide to rise up and take over one day. (M Day, aka House of M was a good example of how that would end up, and it's why so many on both sides were horrified by the prospect. Now imagine the average Joe getting caught up in that, and seeing it come true!)

But to this SAME exact point, why is that exclusive to "mutants"? What's stopping The Avengers from hypothetically taking over from "regular people" and ruling over all mankind, too? You've got "gods" and super-soldiers and guys wearing indestructible walking tanks; if they wanted to "rule the world", nobody could stop them. They're NO different from "Mutants" in that regard, and thus the public by rights should have the same mistrust and fear of ANY metahumans that they do towards mutants. If they're going to fear and hate One Group of super-powered people, then the only logical thing would be for them to fear ALL of them. Because there's no logical reason to believe "Well, Magneto might try and take over the world, but Thor wouldn't." He might; who'd stop him?

This is why the only non-Spider-Man Marvel stuff I ever read much of was the Supreme Power/Squadron Supreme stuff. It really bangs that nail on the head. You don't need to be a mutant to potentially take over the world; you simply need to have the power to do so, it doesn't matter WHERE that power came from. So if you're an in-universe character and you fear and distrust mutants, you really ought to be just as afraid of the Avengers. They're every bit as "dangerous" as the Brotherhood or the X-Men.

And again, in the DCU you treat this issue a lot more clearly and succinctly. Max Lord doesn't only hate or fear or mistrust "one specific group" of metahumans or extra-abled people for weird arbitrary reasons; he and people who think as he does just think, "Yeah, ANYBODY who can punch out a mountain or walk on the sun is probably too dangerous to run around among human beings; doesn't matter WHY they're super-powered, we need to get rid of them." WE know the Good Guys from the Bad Guys, but in-universe the very concept of anybody being that powerful would be terrifying to any non-metas. They wouldn't care "Well some guys are aliens and some guys are mutants and some guys are lab accidents, therefore SOME are more dangerous than others"... that's NOT how these things work. They'd just think ALL of them were dangerous. Because potentially, they are. We the reader know that Max Lord and Lex Luthor are "bad guys", because we see the thought balloons of the heroic characters and thus we know who's a Good Guy and who's not. But in-story? In-Story, Lex and Max make rational sense when they say, "ALL metahumans are dangerous, no matter where they came from or how they got their powers." They're correct to say that. WE only know they're full of sh*t and acting for their own gain because again, we see their thought balloons. But on a surface level, they aren't wrong.

Again, the whole "Mutants are more dangerous than other metahumans" thing is just plain silly. Captain America has been a bad guy. Iron Man has been a bad guy. ANYONE who can shoot lasers out their eyes or crack a hole in the planet is potentially a Very Big Danger, and it matters not one bit how they came about their powers. There's Metas, and there's Normies. The rest is just splitting hairs.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Leo656

But to this SAME exact point, why is that exclusive to "mutants"? What's stopping The Avengers from hypothetically taking over from "regular people" and ruling over all mankind, too?

The Sekovia Accords. And, in theory, even if some of them don't care about the Sekovia Accords and don't sign them, the rest that do will police them accordingly.