Black April

[Autbot_Benz]

Originally Posted by Papenbrook

Well, April was originally conceived as a black woman. So, …

Not true

[Papenbrook]

So, she was originally based on ( and imagined as ) a woman of color.

Then, she was white-washed.

Got it.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Originally Posted by Papenbrook

So, she was originally based on ( and imagined as ) a woman of color.

Then, she was white-washed.

Got it.

Ehhh! Wrong.

She was originally imagined as an Asian woman by Laird and named after a woman of mixed-race by Eastman. But both creators decided that she should be a white woman before issue #2 was published. No whitewashing involved.

The only character that ended up being whitewashed was Baxter Stockman in the ‘87 cartoon when he was originally black in the Mirage comics

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Cowabung-Gal

Um…that’s kind of stereotypical, dontcha think?

Casey already acts "more black" than April. Especially 2012 Casey. It would be more accepted. April was a standard white girl in all previous movies and cartoons prior to Rise, so her change is more drastic.

[TurtleManiac]

Originally Posted by Cowabung-Gal

The only character that ended up being whitewashed was Baxter Stockman in the ‘87 cartoon when he was originally black in the Mirage comics

I kinda see why. Shredder would boss him around and even called him “slave” a few times. That probably would not have been acceptable even back then.

They should of brought back Carter for the new movie.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I honestly wonder why they don't make Casey black instead of April. I think people would accept a black Casey more, since Casey can be "from 'da hood" and be from a poor black family who wants to clean up crime in his fair streets. Casey already used a lot of homie lingo in the 2012 series, so him being a black kid or purple dragon gangsta turned hero would fit better.

In that case bring FW's Carter back. I didn't care for the mutation angle with him (because it was a rather bizarre one in concept), but he's got potential to be updated (without getting stereotypical) as an already existing character.

He could have been a more interesting character back then, but I liked him okay, more than most other additional human side characters (I mean who wants Zach back? lol), and wouldn't mind seeing him return and be fleshed out more as a TMNT friend and ally.

edit: Plus he's basically got the same hair style as the new April, all these years later... which means absolutely nothing, but just noticed that. lol Would it still work for a guy today, too?

Originally Posted by TurtleManiac

They should of brought back Carter for the new movie.

Ah, beat me to it.

[Last Ronin]

Originally Posted by Papenbrook

So, she was originally based on ( and imagined as ) a woman of color.

Then, she was white-washed.

Got it.

She was imagined but it never came to fruition. She is white with a white name April O'Neal people just don't want to grasp that. Someone posted that even one of the creators said she's white.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Originally Posted by Papenbrook

So, she was originally based on ( and imagined as ) a woman of color.

Then, she was white-washed.

Got it.

April had a perm hairstyle. Lots of women wore it in the 80s.

[Galactus]

I'd take the word of Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird on this issue over some random youtuber.

Depending on which one pitched the character first the idea of April O'Neil was either conceived as a Chinese-American or an African American as a tribute to Kevin's then real life mixed race girlfriend. That comes directly from the mouths of Peter and Kevin so I think should be accepted as fact.

It seems they both compromised and made the character white but it's clear that as early the fourth issue Kevin was stealth trying to make the character resemble the real life April Fisher. He was stealth trying to make her look black or mixed race...and frankly that's kind of a questionable thing to do and not tell Peter but that is clearly what he was doing nonetheless.

To be honest I don't think April's race is even mentioned in the comics. I think the closest is seeing her father was white in her V.4 origin issue. She could easily be mixed race like the real person on which she's based. There is nothing in the books themselves that say what April's racial background is; the argument comes down strictly to authorial intent and we know from Peter has said they were not on the same page on this issue. He's openly said that he's always seen the character on the page as white but if you ask Kevin he would say she is black.

The only acceptable answer to whether the original Mirage April is black is: kinda.

I'd argue since Peter signed off on another version of April being black in #32 he's doesn't have anything against other versions of the character not being white. He was okay with other characters races being changed in the 2003 animated series. It's fine guys. You'll survive with a non white April.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Originally Posted by Galactus

I'd take the word of Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird on this issue over some random youtuber.

Clearly you didn’t see this then:

Originally Posted by Cowabung-Gal

(Sigh) Here we go yet again.

No. No, she wasn’t:

http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2018/...-black-in.html

The link leads to a blog that repeatedly quotes Eastman and Laird, written by a true TMNT fan who clearly has done his homework on this particular subject.

What’s your beef with YouTube videos anyway? This isn’t the first time you’ve tried to discredit me by pointing out my YouTube links. Yes, Eric July is a YouTuber, but he’s also a real comic book fan who is knowledgeable about these franchises and actually does research on them, like most of us here on Technodrome Forum, and he doesn’t care about political correctness or what’s the current “thing” with normies who were never fans to begin with.. I’ll certainly take his word over the paid shills and corporate plants on Twitter or Reddit. He’s also a comic book creator whose series was a huge success since he actually knows what the fans want, so yeah I’d say he’s qualified to speak on this matter.

But anyway, we’re not here to talk about Eric. We’re talking about raceswapped April and why it doesn’t work.

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by Cowabung-Gal

Clearly you didn’t see this then:



The link leads to a blog that repeatedly quotes Eastman and Laird, written by a true TMNT fan who clearly has done his homework on this particular subject.

What’s your beef with YouTube videos anyway? This isn’t the first time you’ve tried to discredit me by pointing out my YouTube links. Yes, Eric July is a YouTuber, but he’s also a real comic book fan who is knowledgeable about these franchises and actually does research on them, like most of us here on Technodrome Forum, and he doesn’t care about political correctness or what’s the current “thing” with normies who were never fans to begin with.. I’ll certainly take his word over the paid shills and corporate plants on Twitter or Reddit.

You seem to use them instead of making arguments of your own.

I don't care what a politically motivated youtuber says. Peter initially wanted April to be of East Asian descent and Kevin wanted her to be black or mixed race. That is a fact.

They seemingly settled on making her white but very quickly Kevin quickly started drawing to resemble the real life mixed race women he wanted the character to be based on. This is also a fact.

Peter Laird has said that while considers April to be white Kevin most likely doesn't. This is another fact.

Nothing the guy says in that video disputes any of the above. Thing is fans who argue vehemently against this do so because they feel if it's accepted that at least one of creators sees her as non white it validates other creators making her non white and they can't do their faux outrage about race swapping the character.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Originally Posted by Galactus

You seem to use them instead of making arguments of your own.

What’s wrong with using videos that provide good talking points or show solid evidence? For example, if I wanted to discuss the mentality of serial killers, I’d want to post a video or an article that was done by a certified psychologist to back up my claims. And regarding the topic of raceswapping white characters into black characters, who’d you rather listen to: some white chick who spends way too much time on this forum (me) or a successful and smart black comic creator like Eric?

But you know what? Clearly it doesn’t matter to you what I say anyway. I could give you notes from Peter and Kevin themselves and you’d still brush me off as some political hack who can’t think for herself. When I talked about my disapproval with genderswapping, you asked me, “Did you join this forum just to post your political views?” Oh, so wanting original female characters and not just traditionally male characters with boobs photoshopped on them makes me right-wing? Free thinking and creativity scare you that much? And raceswapping/genderbending is NOT creativity and you know it.

[CyberCubed]

The fact that a thread about "black April" already reached over 42 replies in literally half a day since the trailer came out yesterday, shows how "controversial" this decision is in the first place. People are obviously not fine with April being black.

I see similar comments all over twitter and reddit.

[Papenbrook]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The fact that a thread about "black April" already reached over 42 replies in literally half a day since the trailer came out yesterday, shows how "controversial" this decision is in the first place. People are obviously not fine with April being black.

I see similar comments all over twitter and reddit.

… and it's mostly from the dudebros and the right-wingers.

It's pathetic.

[beardcore84]

Originally Posted by Cowabung-Gal

Um…that’s kind of racist, dontcha think?

Fixed that for you.

[TurtleManiac]

What is “dudebros”? Never heard of that term.

[newhire13]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

April has been black now in two incarnations in a row with Rise of the TMNT and the new upcoming CG Seth Rogen movie. Unlike the IDW comics or 2012 cartoon which predated this, now it seems like April will be remaining as black permanently going forward.

I suspect now white April will be seen as "racist" since now they "can't" go back to her original race because now it will look like "black April wasn't received well" and no way is a big company like Paramount going to let people have those views.

There is also the saying, "Once you go black you never go back" so that gives me pause as well. They can't ever "go back" now in the same manner Nick Fury is permanently black due to Samuel L. Jackson.

Aren't you late for a klan meeting or something?

[CyberCubed]

Some weird takes in this thread, I live in New York and see black people and others races every day. I live in the most ethnic diverse city in the world. I grew up with black people, Hispanics, Asians, Indians, Muslims, and all the other miscellaneous races.

I love black people, and they always make me laugh when I see them in movies and TV shows. Will Smith is one of my favorite actors. But black April just isn't it. This is April in name only. Rise April acted nothing like April either, she felt like some completely random character.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Papenbrook

… and it's mostly from the long time turtle fans that were actually there from the beginning.

Fixed it for ya.
April musta not voted for Biden cause she just ain't black.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Cowabung-Gal

What’s wrong with using videos that provide good talking points or show solid evidence?

Galactus is a circular argument maker. He doesn't care about being relevant, he just wants to "win". Had you stated your own opinion he would've demanded some kind of internet "evidence", but when you cite a YouTuber he criticizes you for not generating your own opinion.

Conversation with him tends to be "talking at" each other rather than "talking with" each other. I can only imagine how people deal with him in real life. In short, he's disingenuous. He's not the worst one here by any means, but still, don't get too drawn in.

Originally Posted by TurtleManiac

What is “dudebros”? Never heard of that term.

It's a term that used to describe fraternity jocks who represented maybe a total of 1,500 actual people across all of America. But now it's the new racism basically used to represent any white male who the blue-hair-mentality find themselves at odds with.