The Conflict between the West and Middle East

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Barkworm

Iranians here don‘t seem to consider any of this. All I see from friends are party pics while all Persian restaurants in the center Hesse area (there are quite a few!) are completely booked out for the next couple of days.

I‘m sure the US government has no idea where they are going with this but the reaction from secular Iranians is unanimously positive.

The same here in Seattle. I was driving up north yesterday and there was like caravans of cars with flags and people hooting out of the side of their cars on the bridges in downtown, super happy.

[Mayhem]

So Trump apparently has had a meltdown to the heads of armament companies in the US after this initial volley of attacks into Iran and then realising American stocks of certain missiles were depleted last year defending Israel, and haven't been restocked by anywhere near enough since. So of course it's the defensive companies fault for not making them fast enough (even though they outlined how quickly they can be made in the past) and not massive overreach as usual.

Whereas it is estimated Iran has up to 100k of those drones we've already seen in action...

[Mayhem]

Plenty going on and I don’t just mean Israel bombing pictures of helicopters and jets on Iranian territory… or that apparently the war is already costing $1B per day. Or Krusti the Clown will be replaced, albeit this is like ******** your pants and then running home to change your shirt.

Two key US partners have arrested Israeli agents on their soil for planning the very attacks now being blamed on Iran. Saudi Arabia and Qatar have detained Mossad operatives attempting to carry out bombings in the Gulf, according to the American commentator Tucker Carlson. The claims, if true, expose a covert war being waged not just against Tehran, but against the United States' own allies.

Mossad infamous for their dirty tricks stands accused of plotting to destabilise the very states hosting American military bases. Military sources in Tehran also claim the recent strike on Saudi Aramco, a facility critical to global energy supplies, was not an Iranian attack at all. They call it an Israeli false flag, designed to frame Iran and drag the Gulf monarchies deeper into a war that serves Tel Aviv's interests alone.

Nearly 800 Iranians are dead. This was never a clean war of liberation as that idiot in The White House claims. It is a dirty game of betrayal, Israel attempting to wipe out perceived enemies, the US once again trying to steal other country's resources.

Here in the UK, the MoD confirm that the drone that hit the base in Cyprus did not launch from Iran, and is also being considered a potential attack from Israel.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

6 dead American soldiers (atleast what US has confirmed) is shameful and should've never happened.

Don't die for Israel! You owe them nothing, no Holocaust guilt, no foreign aid and no boots on the ground.

[Andrew NDB]

My general opinion...

* Did I have any strong feelings about taking out Iran or facilitating a regime change before or after this attack? Not really. But this isn't a nice place. This is a place where -- in addition to many, many other things you could point to -- women "convicted" of crimes were made to be raped before their executions so that they would assuredly go to Hell. So there's no love lost here.

* Did this have to happen NOW? No, probably not. But there really isn't any question nuclear development on a weapons level goal remains a central objective there, discussions weren't going anywhere and my country is "Big Satan" to the ruling regime there and "Death to America" and all that. We probably have to take them at their word.

* Did the idea of attacking Iran frighten me previously? Of course! As a kid growing up in the 80s and 90s there was plenty of imagery and media pretty much convincing everyone in my generation that if you so much as poke them, it'll be the Judgement Day nuclear explosions in Terminator 2 the next day. But last year's strike on their nuclear compound sort of proved... well... they're not super capable of doing much of anything, it seems. But I'm not going to lie, the idea of low-key terrorists deploying smaller-scale "dirty bombs" in cities still seems like a very possible threat. Or retaliation, in this case. But what could be the alternative to stopping them from nuclear weapons, at this point?

* Does this have anything to do with Trump wanting to hide stuff from the Epstein Files? No, that's stupid. Though I suppose a case could be made Trump was advised that there would be a lot of celebratory press on the Iranian/Iranian-American side of things as an effort to "turn the page" on a lot of the general hysteria going on -- and sure enough, there was. That it lines up with negotiations with Iran going in circles is a nice coincidence, but Iran really DID kill about 30,000 protesters over the last couple of months, ones largely looking to get the promise of our aid.

* Did Iran have to be dealt with similarly, at some point? Probably, yes. It's hard to imagine any other outcome having just recently seen what happens when the people tried to rise up. And I'm not sure waiting for the next democrat presidency to try and smooth things over with Iran by handing them billions of dollars again would be a great idea for anybody.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Do you think American troops are worth sacrificing for this operation, or the billions of dollars spent?

It's okay to say no, and it doesn't mean you are siding with Iran. I don't care about Iran, I just don't want my country involved (and so far, my country has diplomatically supported U.S. and Israel).

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

Do you think American troops are worth sacrificing for this operation, or the billions of dollars spent?

I think the idea that ANY kind of acts of warfare that do or even MAY cost American troops -- ever -- are ones that should be frowned on, removed from the table or discounted is a modern day lunacy. I think we can quibble about the timing or timeline to some extent but the stakes absolutely justify it, in this case.

It's okay to say no, and it doesn't mean you are siding with Iran. I don't care about Iran, I just don't want my country involved (and so far, my country has diplomatically supported U.S. and Israel).

I think you'll be OK, man.

[Barkworm]

If anyone still cared about international law, that would be the part people should frown upon. But the big players have been wiping their asses with legality in general for years now so WHATEVER, right?

[Jester]

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but does anyone else think taking out Mudero in Venezuela was intentionally done before attacking Iran so America would control Venezuelan oil in an attempt to lesson the blow if the war disrupts Mid-East supplies?

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by Jester

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but does anyone else think taking out Mudero in Venezuela was intentionally done before attacking Iran so America would control Venezuelan oil in an attempt to lesson the blow if the war disrupts Mid-East supplies?

I think that is pretty much a fact.

[ToTheNines]

Maybe. Gas prices aren’t looking good right now.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Maybe. Gas prices aren’t looking good right now.

Mostly that's due to the state level, at this point. Like my state, shesus.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I think you'll be OK, man.

Not really. I'm not in the military, but my country is a slave to the US and supporting a foreign war negatively impacts our everyday lives.

We spy on our own citizens and give the U.S. our intelligence, we have an FBI office here, and we support America and Israel's wars with foreign aid and sometimes troops.

That's called being cucked. Being cucked is a bad thing.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Jester

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but does anyone else think taking out Mudero in Venezuela was intentionally done before attacking Iran so America would control Venezuelan oil in an attempt to lesson the blow if the war disrupts Mid-East supplies?

It did also cross my mind. I'm not one for conspiracies, but that seems a bit too "coincidental."

[Mayhem]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

It did also cross my mind. I'm not one for conspiracies, but that seems a bit too "coincidental."

Oh that’s definitely the angle. Problem is, their oil isn’t processable in the US afaik.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

Not really. I'm not in the military, but my country is a slave to the US and supporting a foreign war negatively impacts our everyday lives.

We spy on our own citizens and give the U.S. our intelligence, we have an FBI office here, and we support America and Israel's wars with foreign aid and sometimes troops.

That's called being cucked. Being cucked is a bad thing.

I guess walk me through your day to day as a thought experiment as to how this is impacting you on your day to day? If you'll humor me.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I guess walk me through your day to day as a thought experiment as to how this is impacting you on your day to day? If you'll humor me.

Well, I spend my day to day knowing my country is cucked and a slave to foreign inteference by a cabal that seeks total control. That's a huge insult to a nation's sovereignty and any decent person's self-respect no matter how you put it.

Things like material conditions don't matter as much as having an independent national identity and self-determination. Screw being owned by "them". Being our own people and making our own decisions are the most important things for the nation.

[Barkworm]

Despicable.

[Mayhem]

And the claim will be, like Israel bombing Gaza, they put civilians near military targets to try and stop them being targetted, and when they are, then the outrage happens...

[FredWolfLeonardo]