Splinter has Nobody

[Sage Ninja]

You know I just thought of the fact that the turtles all have some one to relate to or has a friend to comfind in or some one that they have a crush on...except Splinter.

I mean we spend so much time analising the turtles complex relationships and how they are lacking in some form or another, but really the one character that has no one to relate to on any level is Splinter. He is a mutant too and unlike the turtles (who are the same age as each other, and can at least interact with one another) he has no one. I mean the other turtles have each other and can relate with each other on different levels, and in addition to that each turtle has at least one friend out side their family to interact with.

Raphael has Casey and to a lesser extent that Tricertron guy

Donatello has April, Leather Head, and Professor Honeycutt

Leonardo has Usagi

Michelangelo has Klunk

Splinter doesn't have any body. There isn't any body his own age or on the same maturity level or common interest that he can interact with. Who does he have? Four rambuctious teenagers who act as his sons not his friends (at least not on a peer level). Poor Splinter

[iris]

Originally Posted by Sage Ninja

Splinter doesn't have any body.

I thought you just said he had Nobody.

[Sewer Bull]

Splinter has his soap operas.

[KROW]

Splinter has friends on the astral plane. When he meditates, he not only clears his mind, but he drifts into another realm where his past affiliates dwell beyond death.

In the comics, he was met by a dying old man while meditating who begged him to save his son. In doing that, he gained two friends.

In the current show, he is friends with the Daimyo.

I may be remembering incorrectly, but I think he had old acquaintances in the old toon.

Also, I always thought he had Leonardo, who basically emulates Splinter and strives to be like him. That's close, to some extent.

[triplexxx]

Maybe if he tried actually being a family man once in a while instead of meditating and being wrapped up in himself all the time, and if he made his sense of humor a little more respectful towards others, this wouldn't be the case for him.

[gobo]

He's a Buddhist. He's inherently a loner.

[iris]

Originally Posted by gobo

He's a Buddhist. He's inherently a loner.

Well Buddhist philosophy discourages the fear being alone with oneself. Loneliness is a delusion of sorts. But the flipside is to be able to give freely of yourself to others. To have an open heart.

Perhaps in Splinter's philosophy he does not actively seek companionship because he already someone to whom he can give of himself. Several someones.

I would argue that he does have a lot of people with whom he could talk if he liked, as Krow said.

[Buslady]

Raph should have introduced Mrs M to Splinter

[Drtooth]

Or, you can think about it this way. Splinter didn't just get along with one person, but many. So he doesn't have nobody, he has everybody.

[gobo]

Originally Posted by Buslady

Raph should have introduced Mrs M to Splinter

Pardon my ignorance, but who is Mrs. M?

[Bevandera]

I believe Mrs. M is the blind woman that Raph helped in Touch and Go.

[gobo]

Oh yeah! I only saw that ep once. I need to get my butt in gear and arrange those eps in chronological order on DVD. I'll never watch 'em otherwise... Don't worry marketers. I own them all.

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

I second the "he has everyone" idea. The dude can't be lonely with four turtles and a reporter always running around.

[Sage Ninja]

In the current show, he is friends with the Daimyo.

oh yes, I did forget about the Daimyo he is I guess around the same age as Splinter (assuming he is that flippen old considering the Daimyo is pretty up there) although as far as vitality and charisma I think Splinter is more energetic than the Daimyo, who apears more frail and weak.

Also, I always thought he had Leonardo, who basically emulates Splinter and strives to be like him. That's close, to some extent.

You know you have a good point he does have a very close relationship with Leonardo. And they do have something in common. How lucky for the both of them that they share the same passion, and Splinter does seem to have the vitality to still keep up with Leonardo still. Actually the father son relationship between Leo and Splinter is one of my favorite dynamics in the new toon. They are so alike and get along so well.

I may be remembering incorrectly, but I think he had old acquaintances in the old toon.

as far as old toon Splinter goes I think its even more tragic in his case than even in the new toon. Because Splinter was a human being who had friends and family, maybe some one he loved and a life and then he gets turned into a freak and now has lost all that because of what he is now. In New toon Splinter's case being turned into a mutant was a step up for him, but Old toon Splinter was a serious step back because he was an intellctual being that was turned into, basically a monster, and his life and his coicual is radically affected by it. And even if he has aquantices I don't think he can nessicarily go to their house and have tea with them. He basically has no one.

Originally Posted by triplexxx

Maybe if he tried actually being a family man once in a while instead of meditating and being wrapped up in himself all the time, and if he made his sense of humor a little more respectful towards others, this wouldn't be the case for him.

that is about the most perplexing thing I have ever read. Care to expand on that, and explain what you mean exactly? Are you talking about New toon Splinter or old toon Splinter? I don't understand what you mean that Splinter isn't family man and that he is wrapped up into him self. Because if nothing else Splinter is all about his family. And your comment that he has a diisrespective sence of humour confuses me too. When has not shown respect for others?

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Originally Posted by triplexxx

Maybe if he tried actually being a family man once in a while instead of meditating and being wrapped up in himself all the time, and if he made his sense of humor a little more respectful towards others, this wouldn't be the case for him.

What are you talking about. Family means more to Master Splinter than his own life. His meditation is just his hobby, something he does. You could call out Don for the same reason seeing as how his emerses himself in his science and tends to shut out everything around him. same with Mike and his video games, Leo and his training, and Raph and his loner attitude.

As for his humor, it's far from disrespectfull, he just has a very dry, sarcastic sense of humor.

Why do you have it in for Master Splinter?

[Raph's Girl]

New Toon Splinter has friends! He has Ancient One (who is more or less his grandfather), He has the Damiyo... umm... yea

[triplexxx]

Originally Posted by ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

Why do you have it in for Master Splinter?

OK, i admit my words about Master Splinter were too harsh. I do believe he treasures family greatly & does not actually "have nobody". However I do believe there are faults to Master splinter that tend to be overlooked. For instance i know meditation is only a hobby, but I do think he spends a few too many hours of the day doing it, the same problem the turtles may have with their own hobbies. Splinter serves two role in the turtles lives, "father" & "sensei", and sometimes I think he is a little too absorbed in his role as a "sensei" and not enough absorbed in his role as a "father". The least he could do is try to have a few more "real" conversations with his sons, or ask them to join him in meditation more often. Also, when Splinter deals with his sons by whacking them with his stick or slapping them in the face ("Shredder Strikes Part 2") I do believe he is somewhat out of line. If you were in his position, when you deal with your mortal enemies, violence is usually the only way to resolve conflicts; BUT when it comes to your own family, you deal with your problems by talking things out (raise your voice if necessary) and try to come up with positive ways to resolve fights, avoid them in the future and put them behind you, what you DON'T do is start hitting them in the back of the head with your hand or your cane, like when he did to Michaelangelo in "Bishop's Gambit" for saying "Shell, we're good" (I thought to myself, "Now that was completely unnecessary!"). My belief is the turtles learned this from him and that is why they do it to each other (especially michaelangelo) when they get on each others' nerves, and this would be a major area where he "went wrong". I also believe maybe he chooses "physical assault" as a form of discipline as a way of lashing out on account of his bitter past, and while I do believe he deserves pity for seeing his master murdered right before his eyes, that's still no excuse to take it out on his present family.

Originally Posted by Sage Ninja

Because if nothing else Splinter is all about his family.

Well, maybe there is something else. If I remember the original comic book storyline correctly, the primary reason Master Splinter began training his sons in the first place was so one day they could avenge his master; yet in the new toon, Splinter clearly tells his sons in the flashbacks of them as kids that he never wants them "going topside", and when they're teenagers he still discourages it. Now I believe when a family wants to train their children at an extremely early age (in martial arts, to be a bodybuilder, etc.), they most definitely need some outrageously provacative type of motivation (and to do it simply to pass on a family tradition is not enough). When Splinter said in "Shredder strikes part 1" that he hoped the day his sons learned who the Shredder is would never come, I honestly didn't believe he was telling the whole truth. Now while I'm sure Master Splinter's intentions for his sons' lives are good, I believe his motives are somewhat foul.
When I said Splinter was "wrapped up in himself" I was thinking that maybe he was a little too concerned with his own life problems and not so much concerned with those of other innocent people. For instance, whenever a situation came up on the surface which involved Shredder, this was the only time I remember Splinter encouraging his sons to go topside and fight, he didn't at first but later on he did. Now while the shredder was indeed a crimelord in New York and taking him out would most likely do the whole city a favor, think about this: when the Triceraton invasion came along and all those innocent people were kidnapped (April and Casey included) and brought to central park, splinter discouraged his sons from leaving the lair to be of any help, but they made the noble decision and went anyway, and in this case ended up doing the whole world a favor, & if the fugitoid hadn't come back and triggered the crisis all over again, eventually leading to the turtles being held at knifepoint in Bishop's lab, Splinter would have never gotten himself involved and helped out.

Originally Posted by Sage Ninja

And your comment that he has a diisrespective sence of humour confuses me too. When has not shown respect for others?

How about in "Secret Origin part 1" when Michaelangelo was trying to grab the riceballs in vain and splinter said "There is a lesson to be learned here, but I'm enjoying this too much to think of what it is?" I know he loves his sons, but personally, I don't find it respectful to laugh at other people's expense, no matter how slight an expense it is. Also, in Fast Forward during the video game episode, when he lectured Cody about not adventuring when cody is very smart and he actually saved the turtles' lives that episode I thought to myself, "Geez Splinter, give him a f***ing break, he saved your sons' lives and he's not a careless, helpess fool, so don't f***ing treat him like one!"
Personally, if I were one of Splinter's sons, I sure wouldn't be proud to end up like him.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Give me a break. So Master Splinter whaps them over the head when they get out of line. Did you ever think they may deserve it at times. Master Splinter has to be stern, to keep the TMNT strong. He knows when to be a sensei and a father. It's not like the old toon where Splinter was more of a teacher. In the new toon and comics he is the father figure. Why do you think he calls them his sons.

Well, maybe there is something else. If I remember the original comic book storyline correctly, the primary reason Master Splinter began training his sons in the first place was so one day they could avenge his master; yet in the new toon, Splinter clearly tells his sons in the flashbacks of them as kids that he never wants them "going topside", and when they're teenagers he still discourages it. Now I believe when a family wants to train their children at an extremely early age (in martial arts, to be a bodybuilder, etc.), they most definitely need some outrageously provacative type of motivation (and to do it simply to pass on a family tradition is not enough). When Splinter said in "Shredder strikes part 1" that he hoped the day his sons learned who the Shredder is would never come, I honestly didn't believe he was telling the whole truth. Now while I'm sure Master Splinter's intentions for his sons' lives are good, I believe his motives are somewhat foul.
When I said Splinter was "wrapped up in himself" I was thinking that maybe he was a little too concerned with his own life problems and not so much concerned with those of other innocent people. For instance, whenever a situation came up on the surface which involved Shredder, this was the only time I remember Splinter encouraging his sons to go topside and fight, he didn't at first but later on he did. Now while the shredder was indeed a crimelord in New York and taking him out would most likely do the whole city a favor, think about this: when the Triceraton invasion came along and all those innocent people were kidnapped (April and Casey included) and brought to central park, splinter discouraged his sons from leaving the lair to be of any help, but they made the noble decision and went anyway, and in this case ended up doing the whole world a favor, & if the fugitoid hadn't come back and triggered the crisis all over again, eventually leading to the turtles being held at knifepoint in Bishop's lab, Splinter would have never gotten himself involved and helped out.

Yes, in the comic Spliner originally trained the TMNT for vengance. But you gotta remember, the comic was never planned to last beyond one issue. Thats why as the series went on he bacmae more gentle.

As for the new toon, did you ever think that Splinter discouraged the turtles from going topside to save people is because, THEYRE NOT SUPERHEROES. He was trying to keep his sons safe, not having them get invovled in matter that would get them killed. That shows he cares, unlike someone like Professor X who sends his students off to die. As for the Shredder that was diffrent. One, this was a personal matter. And two, that Turtles already started the fight, so they had to finish it.

Master Splinter isn't disrespectful or self absorbed. Hes far from it, there has never been one incarnation of Splinter that was like that. And don't you remeber in Shredder Strikes part 1 where he saved the Turtles from getting killed by the Shredder, or when he helped reunite them in that same episode. Also in Same as it Never Was when Mike said Splinter gave his life saving them. Or in Exodus when he took that electrocution for Mikey.

[Masked Ninja]

Just because we don't see too much squishy family moments doesn't mean there IS none of it. Episodes of 100% cute father-son bonding would send the kiddies to sleep, and however mature the new toon was (*sigh*) overall, they still had to keep it a little actionified.

Just the way the Turtles treat Splinter attests to the fact that he is a caring father who has earned their respect as sons.

And I like his dry sense of humor. He's a lot like MY dad, actually...

[triplexxx]

Originally Posted by ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

Give me a break. So Master Splinter whaps them over the head when they get out of line. Did you ever think they may deserve it at times. Master Splinter has to be stern, to keep the TMNT strong. Master Splinter isn't disrespectful or self absorbed.

No, I don't think they deserve it; and even though they aren't your average family, it doesn't make physical assault any more appropriate a way to deal with family; he can be strict,keep them strong, and discipline them without doing that. And I'm not saying Splinter is self-absorbed, but i did think it was a little peculiar that the only enemy he eventually desired them to face is the one he had a personal matter with, and I have seen him be disrespectful once or twice when someone didn't deserve it, some examples I've already given.

Also, I don't have anything against the show being actionfied, I know darn well it's all about that, but some of the family moments they have had i found to be a bit sour, and more so than they had to be.