Something to freak out Michael Jackson haters - Page 2

**ThirdMarioBro** · 09-25-2007, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krang

However, like I posted above, the music was only changed in the PC version. Every other version of Sonic 3 released after that retained the original music.

Yes, but from a legal point of view, you are allowed to do whatever you want with the music in the context of the "unaltered" original work, and all console re-releases of the Sonic games have been emulations of the original unaltered Genesis code. Sonic 3&K PC was a rebuild released on another platform, so it would make sense legally that any music he had anything to do with would have to be altered. The argument that the music on the PC version "had to be changed due to the use of voice samples that MIDI couldn't reproduce" doesn't stand either. Almost every track in the Genesis game used scratchy PCM drum samples. Genesis sound emulator wave tables prove this. All those drum samples were replaced in the MIDI versions with equivalent MIDI drum kit sounds. And again, I cite the MJ "Jam" voice sample found in the sound test.

But then there is Sonic Jam, and that was a recompile released a year or so after Sonic 3 & Knuckles PC. Who knows how that gets by.

At the very least we can possibly assume he had something to do with the music early on. His works were likely tweaked and build upon by someone else after his departure (Howard Drossin most likely), but the core similarities are too uncanny to really believe all his work was completely thrown out.

**Krang** · 09-25-2007, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThirdMarioBro

Yes, but from a legal point of view, you are allowed to do whatever you want with the music in the context of the "unaltered" original work, and all console re-releases of the Sonic games have been emulations of the original unaltered Genesis code. Sonic 3&K PC was a rebuild released on another platform, so it would make sense legally that any music he had anything to do with would have to be altered.

Like you mentioned below, Sonic Jam was also recompiled, but it used the original music, so it's doubtful that there were any legal issues. Besides, see my earlier post where I brought up the Act 1 boss music, which is more evidence against that.

Quote:

The argument that the music on the PC version "had to be changed due to the use of voice samples that MIDI couldn't reproduce" doesn't stand either. Almost every track in the Genesis game used scratchy PCM drum samples. Genesis sound emulator wave tables prove this. All those drum samples were replaced in the MIDI versions with equivalent MIDI drum kit sounds.

Well, it's not that the Genesis was using samples, it's that MIDI can't reproduce those sounds (specifically, the voices). I find the fact that they composed new music strange, too, but maybe the composers of the original music didn't want their music being used unless it was complete.

Quote:

And again, I cite the MJ "Jam" voice sample found in the sound test.

I've gone through the entire sound test in the past, and I've never heard that sound at any speed. It would help if they included the sound test number. If it is in there, though, that could just be something they were originally going to use when MJ was involved, but since it's not used anywhere in the game, they didn't bother to remove it.

Quote:

At the very least we can possibly assume he had something to do with the music early on. His works were likely tweaked and build upon by someone else after his departure (Howard Drossin most likely), but the core similarities are too uncanny to really believe all his work was completely thrown out.

Sorry, but I don't find the Ice Cap and Carnival Night comparisons very convincing. I do agree with you about the ending theme, although the time difference that Barkworm mentioned lessens that one's credibility as well.

It seems to me that there are unexplainable issues no matter which way people believe. I guess we won't know for sure until we hear from people who were more directly involved.

*ZariusTwo* · 09-26-2007, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krang

Sorry, but I don't find the Ice Cap and Carnival Night comparisons very convincing. I do agree with you about the ending theme, although the time difference that Barkworm mentioned lessens that one's credibility as well.

Timing is always improved upon in music for pacing, there's plenty of prototype variations of popular songs that have contrasting, different temps and tones before the final product.

**ThirdMarioBro** · 12-03-2009, 04:00 PM

http://vgmdb.net/forums/showpost.php...68&postcount=1

So that's pretty much it. Brad Buxer put it out there beyond a doubt. Michael Jackson did Sonic 3.

Not like anybody didn't already know, but now we have it in writing from a credible source. Game over. I'm re-tagging my mp3s.

*Dr. Doom* · 12-03-2009, 07:24 PM

You are such a ****ing drama queen.

**ThirdMarioBro** · 12-03-2009, 09:05 PM

Whaaaaaaaaaaaat?

愛 · 12-03-2009, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Doom

You are such a ****ing drama queen.

Oh, like you're not?

*Cure* · 12-03-2009, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThirdMarioBro

Game over.

So that's it?! Game over?! Finally, our long fought battle is won.

VICTORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyeah I don't care.

Bizzy Bone · 01-30-2010, 11:04 PM

This is all true.I remember a few months before he passed while we were in Krayzies studio recording verses for "what have we done" he briefly spoke about his time composing for sega video games and he giggled when we told him that we have sampled music from the sega game "eternal champions" he was well aware of that already and said it was one of the reasons he agreed to work with us.What a beuatiful man he was,May GOD bless his soul,R.I.P.

**ThirdMarioBro** · 01-31-2010, 01:04 AM

Now that sir, is an awesome story.

*XERO* · 01-31-2010, 01:05 AM

Eternal Champions did have a badass soundtrack. Does anybody know who made that one?

**ThirdMarioBro** · 01-31-2010, 01:09 AM

Joe Delia, John Hart, Jeff Marsh and Adrian Van Velssen I believe.

Layzie Bone · 01-31-2010, 02:10 AM

cool MJ wrote music for the sega game cool.

*Samhain* · 02-25-2010, 11:22 AM

Interesting! Awesome. Love MJ and Sonic. No wonder.

*Kendamu* · 03-01-2010, 09:59 AM

I remember reading about this and seeing a YouTube video about it awhile back. A lot of the music in S3&K is just slightly altered MJ songs. It reminds me of how a lot of the music in the original TMNT for NES sounds a lot like various popular rock songs.

*XERO* · 03-01-2010, 05:08 PM

Yeah, no kidding.

The most obvious in TMNT is the Area 5 overworld theme sounding like Come Together.

12-03-2009, 04:00 PM	#24
ThirdMarioBro Tea Time! Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,905	http://vgmdb.net/forums/showpost.php...68&postcount=1 So that's pretty much it. Brad Buxer put it out there beyond a doubt. Michael Jackson did Sonic 3. Not like anybody didn't already know, but now we have it in writing from a credible source. Game over. I'm re-tagging my mp3s. __________________

12-03-2009, 07:24 PM	#25
Dr. Doom Allons-y! Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Castle Doom Posts: 4,535	You are such a **ing drama queen. __________________ I love you, Pickle.**

12-03-2009, 09:05 PM	#26
ThirdMarioBro Tea Time! Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,905	Whaaaaaaaaaaaat? __________________

01-30-2010, 11:04 PM	#29
Bizzy Bone Random Punk Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 40	This is all true.I remember a few months before he passed while we were in Krayzies studio recording verses for "what have we done" he briefly spoke about his time composing for sega video games and he giggled when we told him that we have sampled music from the sega game "eternal champions" he was well aware of that already and said it was one of the reasons he agreed to work with us.What a beuatiful man he was,May GOD bless his soul,R.I.P. __________________ I'm the one in the middle.

01-31-2010, 01:04 AM	#30
ThirdMarioBro Tea Time! Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,905	Now that sir, is an awesome story. __________________

01-31-2010, 01:05 AM	#31
XERO Hybrid Theorist Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Alamo City Posts: 8,185	Eternal Champions did have a badass soundtrack. Does anybody know who made that one? __________________ "Travel at the speed of light... then hit the nitro!"

01-31-2010, 01:09 AM	#32
ThirdMarioBro Tea Time! Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,905	Joe Delia, John Hart, Jeff Marsh and Adrian Van Velssen I believe. __________________

01-31-2010, 02:10 AM	#33
Layzie Bone Random Punk Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: currently in Los Angeles Posts: 31	cool MJ wrote music for the sega game cool.

02-25-2010, 11:22 AM	#34
Samhain Dare To Be Stupid! Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 1313 Mockingbird Lane Posts: 4,752	Interesting! Awesome. Love MJ and Sonic. No wonder.

03-01-2010, 09:59 AM	#35
Kendamu Sewerhead Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 2,890	I remember reading about this and seeing a YouTube video about it awhile back. A lot of the music in S3&K is just slightly altered MJ songs. It reminds me of how a lot of the music in the original TMNT for NES sounds a lot like various popular rock songs.

03-01-2010, 05:08 PM	#36
XERO Hybrid Theorist Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Alamo City Posts: 8,185	Yeah, no kidding. The most obvious in TMNT is the Area 5 overworld theme sounding like Come Together. __________________ "Travel at the speed of light... then hit the nitro!"