plot holes??? - Page 2

TheShowstoppa · 06-05-2006, 11:40 AM

Okay, you also have to remember that this was a dream world that they went to in order to view the Utrom's past. Just because Mortu said it there doesn't mean that the Guardian knew it to be true, and further more, they would have never remembered since it had already happened. You can't change the past - especially in a recreated history sequence.

Yes, I have gone back and noticed the signs that Shredder was an utrom. They're very subtle, but you can catch them if you pay attention.

Also, Splinter was the one who said that Shredder accused him of working for his enemies. The only glimpse you see of Splinter even knowing that he did was in "Tale of Yoshi" when Splinter was taken into the TCRI building. Even then, he hadn't quite developed his little rat brain enough to comprehend something. I don't think that Splinter ever fully knew that Yoshi was a guardian until Season 2. Then... Season 3 was the passing of the torch. Splinter is now a guardian. Before that... Like I have said: He knew very little to nothing at all.

The only thing that I can see that slightly confuses me is how Hun didn't know that Shredder was defeated on top of the foot HQ that night. Further more, I don't understand how Karai could have known he was an utrom if he didn't. Yes, Karai was raised as Saki's daughter, eventually telling her that would be nothing shy of ordinary, but I just don't get why Hun didn't know. In Exodus, he was so shocked to see it, but then in Season 4, he continued on, working from the teachings of his "master" even though he had been kinda betrayed by him.

Holy Crap... It's a kid's TV show, and I'm getting all technical with it... Eh.. you're only young once...

Krangstein · 06-05-2006, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheShowstoppa

Okay, you also have to remember that this was a dream world that they went to in order to view the Utrom's past. Just because Mortu said it there doesn't mean that the Guardian knew it to be true, and further more, they would have never remembered since it had already happened. You can't change the past - especially in a recreated history sequence.

Yes, I have gone back and noticed the signs that Shredder was an utrom. They're very subtle, but you can catch them if you pay attention.

Also, Splinter was the one who said that Shredder accused him of working for his enemies. The only glimpse you see of Splinter even knowing that he did was in "Tale of Yoshi" when Splinter was taken into the TCRI building. Even then, he hadn't quite developed his little rat brain enough to comprehend something. I don't think that Splinter ever fully knew that Yoshi was a guardian until Season 2. Then... Season 3 was the passing of the torch. Splinter is now a guardian. Before that... Like I have said: He knew very little to nothing at all.

The only thing that I can see that slightly confuses me is how Hun didn't know that Shredder was defeated on top of the foot HQ that night. Further more, I don't understand how Karai could have known he was an utrom if he didn't. Yes, Karai was raised as Saki's daughter, eventually telling her that would be nothing shy of ordinary, but I just don't get why Hun didn't know. In Exodus, he was so shocked to see it, but then in Season 4, he continued on, working from the teachings of his "master" even though he had been kinda betrayed by him.

Holy Crap... It's a kid's TV show, and I'm getting all technical with it... Eh.. you're only young once...

Hehe. Very good points though. I always enjoy reading your posts.

*VaughnMichael* · 06-07-2006, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krangstein

The Guirdians did know that Shredder was an Utrom, for sure. Remember in Secret Origin Part 2, they Turtles are about to return to their time, but they ask Mortu what he was about to say before about Shredder. Mortu says: Shredder is an.... then the Turtles disappear. One of the Guirdians was holding Mortu when he staded Shredder was an Utrom. That's proof enough for me.

I was actully shocked that the guardians hadn't been at the trial.

*ToTheNines* · 07-02-2009, 08:39 PM

Sorry to necro post. But I just watched season one, and the fact that the Utroms think Shredder is dead after getting the head of his exo chopped off is killing me, someone use some fan logic to help me out lol

Quote:

Mainly I see it as he said "Defeated" Not "Killed, destoryed, vanquished, finished" Or said "The Shredder has parished" So maybe they just saw him as in a postion where he could cause no more harm to them.

But in Search For Splinter they say "you have reported the Shredder destroyed".

*Cipher* · 07-02-2009, 09:59 PM

That's a killer, and a little bit baffling, since the writers clearly intended Shredder to be an Utrom from square one. Here's how I justify it:

Only the guardians saw Shredder get beheaded. The guardians were human, so perhaps they weren't clued in to the fact that Shredder was an Utrom as well, but were merely informed that he was an enemy of the Utroms. When they saw Leo take him out for all they knew he was dead, and that's what they reported to the Utrom high-ups. The Utroms didn't ask for the exact details of his death.

It's a stretch, but that's really the only way it makes sense.

*ToTheNines* · 07-03-2009, 10:35 AM

Yeah, not bad. Other theories that I had were

-The Utrom knew he wasn't dead but figured he would lay low for a while like he does after "defeat". And they knew that the transmat was almost complete so they didn't worry about it.

(this next one sucks)
- The exo-suits that they use might loose power after getting decapitated, and if Shredder landed on his belly, he couldn't get out. But Shredder was smart and modified his suit to have the battery elsewhere.

Tuxedo Moroboshi · 07-03-2009, 01:04 PM

Honestly, I just think the Guardians said that Shredder was killed and left it at that. From their point of view, that may have very well been the case, and the Utroms trusted the information without feeling the need to ask how Shredder was killed.

*ToTheNines* · 07-03-2009, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clown Prince of Crime

Honestly, I just think the Guardians said that Shredder was killed and left it at that. From their point of view, that may have very well been the case, and the Utroms trusted the information without feeling the need to ask how Shredder was killed.

That seems too lazy for the Utroms I dunno. I also wonder why the Gaurdians would take Splinter without reassuring the Turltes that he'd be alright, that way the turtles still wouldn't have discovered the Utroms.

Another one is how did Ch'rell get controll of the mystics, it's not really a plot hole it just went unexplained. I would love to get and episode of little movie about that.

deathtojohnny · 07-03-2009, 03:04 PM

What's always bothered me was how Karai was supposed to be his daughter. Why in satan's glorious name would an evil alien take a young human girl under his wing? Doesn't make sense in the slightest.

The main reason they wanted to make Shredder an Utrom was so that they could connect the Ninja Turtles' origin to Shredder's even further.

Having a Mystic Shredder helped a bit by having the Ch'rell take Oroku Saki and Shredder forms by following his legend.

*ToTheNines* · 07-03-2009, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deathtojohnny

What's always bothered me was how Karai was supposed to be his daughter. Why in satan's glorious name would an evil alien take a young human girl under his wing? Doesn't make sense in the slightest.

So he could train her to do his bidding in the future.

~~Dan~~ · 07-03-2009, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheShowstoppa

The only thing that I can see that slightly confuses me is how Hun didn't know that Shredder was defeated on top of the foot HQ that night. Further more, I don't understand how Karai could have known he was an utrom if he didn't. Yes, Karai was raised as Saki's daughter, eventually telling her that would be nothing shy of ordinary, but I just don't get why Hun didn't know. In Exodus, he was so shocked to see it, but then in Season 4, he continued on, working from the teachings of his "master" even though he had been kinda betrayed by him.

Well Hun wasn't there when Shredder was defeated. But in Secret Origins Shredder stands right in front of Hun and says to Leonardo You merely separated my head from my body. So Hun must have known something was up.

*Turo602* · 08-07-2009, 02:16 AM

Another dumb thing is that in The episode (Fathers and sons) Splinter tells the Ancient One that Yoshi has been slade by the Utrom Shredder.

And this was when the Turtles were Little Mutant Training Turtles.

Shark112 · 08-08-2009, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turo602

Another dumb thing is that in The episode (Fathers and sons) Splinter tells the Ancient One that Yoshi has been slade by the Utrom Shredder.

And this was when the Turtles were Little Mutant Training Turtles.

Wait a second, Yoshi was always said to be killed by the Utrom Shredder.

**Jester** · 08-08-2009, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shark112

Wait a second, Yoshi was always said to be killed by the Utrom Shredder.

Yes, but at that point Splinter didn't know Shredder was an Utrom.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Another one is how did Ch'rell get controll of the mystics, it's not really a plot hole it just went unexplained. I would love to get and episode of little movie about that.

After Ch'rell was banished, Karai showed the mystics the relic he used to control them, the Heart of Tengu...or something like that. I assume Ch'rell had it. The bigger question here is why the Mystics didn't question Ch'rell's mantel of Shredder like they did Karai's. Is it that the Utrom Shredder had them so fooled they they thought he was the original Shredder?

*gobo* · 08-08-2009, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

Is it that the Utrom Shredder had them so fooled they they thought he was the original Shredder?

Possibly, but not necessarily. One thing's for certain: Ch'Rell was cunning enough to keep the Heralds in the dark about how he was keeping them captive. He was no Dr. Evil, but Karai and Cyber Shredder were oddly enough.

*Coola Yagami* · 08-08-2009, 08:10 PM

The Mystics knew they were fakes but had no choice. It seems they were forced to obey whoever held that jewel thing. Even when they tricked Bishop into destroying it, they said they were finally 'free of the impostor'. They knew Karai wasa fake and had to serve her, so they probably knew Chrell was a fake too and still had to serve him.

**Jester** · 08-08-2009, 11:34 PM

I guess the question is why didn't they try this little trick before Karai? Not conducive to the plot?

*Ninjinister* · 08-09-2009, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

I guess the question is why didn't they try this little trick before Karai? Not conducive to the plot?

Who's to say they didn't? Ch'rell could have had them enslaved for hundreds of years and have tried to escape his Utrom Tech-Fisted rule several times, and simply failed.

*gobo* · 08-09-2009, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

I guess the question is why didn't they try this little trick before Karai? Not conducive to the plot?

This is why I said what I said. Why go through all the trouble of stealing something when you don't know what you're after or if it's even a material object?

*ToTheNines* · 08-09-2009, 07:38 AM

My gripe is they never explain how their entrapment occured. Just that story alone would have been a better episode than most of the Ninja Tribunal bull.

06-05-2006, 11:40 AM	#21
TheShowstoppa Stone Warrior Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 629	Okay, you also have to remember that this was a dream world that they went to in order to view the Utrom's past. Just because Mortu said it there doesn't mean that the Guardian knew it to be true, and further more, they would have never remembered since it had already happened. You can't change the past - especially in a recreated history sequence. Yes, I have gone back and noticed the signs that Shredder was an utrom. They're very subtle, but you can catch them if you pay attention. Also, Splinter was the one who said that Shredder accused him of working for his enemies. The only glimpse you see of Splinter even knowing that he did was in "Tale of Yoshi" when Splinter was taken into the TCRI building. Even then, he hadn't quite developed his little rat brain enough to comprehend something. I don't think that Splinter ever fully knew that Yoshi was a guardian until Season 2. Then... Season 3 was the passing of the torch. Splinter is now a guardian. Before that... Like I have said: He knew very little to nothing at all. The only thing that I can see that slightly confuses me is how Hun didn't know that Shredder was defeated on top of the foot HQ that night. Further more, I don't understand how Karai could have known he was an utrom if he didn't. Yes, Karai was raised as Saki's daughter, eventually telling her that would be nothing shy of ordinary, but I just don't get why Hun didn't know. In Exodus, he was so shocked to see it, but then in Season 4, he continued on, working from the teachings of his "master" even though he had been kinda betrayed by him. Holy Crap... It's a kid's TV show, and I'm getting all technical with it... Eh.. you're only young once... __________________ Courtesy of LUCKFF "I don't know what bothers me more; That this actually worked, or that Don carries around a pigeon puppet." - Mikey: Search for Splinter Pt. 1

07-03-2009, 01:04 PM	#27
Tuxedo Moroboshi Mad Scientist Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Battle Nexus Posts: 1,127	Honestly, I just think the Guardians said that Shredder was killed and left it at that. From their point of view, that may have very well been the case, and the Utroms trusted the information without feeling the need to ask how Shredder was killed. __________________ Hey, be sure to check out my art!

08-08-2009, 11:34 PM	#37
Jester Rat-faced Dude-guy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 26,294	I guess the question is why didn't they try this little trick before Karai? Not conducive to the plot? __________________ "Clearly, you're Ninja Turtling incorrectly." - Leo656

07-02-2009, 09:59 PM	#25
Cipher Foot Elite Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 3,454	That's a killer, and a little bit baffling, since the writers clearly intended Shredder to be an Utrom from square one. Here's how I justify it: Only the guardians saw Shredder get beheaded. The guardians were human, so perhaps they weren't clued in to the fact that Shredder was an Utrom as well, but were merely informed that he was an enemy of the Utroms. When they saw Leo take him out for all they knew he was dead, and that's what they reported to the Utrom high-ups. The Utroms didn't ask for the exact details of his death. It's a stretch, but that's really the only way it makes sense.

07-03-2009, 10:35 AM	#26
ToTheNines Col. Stinkmeaner Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 19,177	Yeah, not bad. Other theories that I had were -The Utrom knew he wasn't dead but figured he would lay low for a while like he does after "defeat". And they knew that the transmat was almost complete so they didn't worry about it. (this next one sucks) - The exo-suits that they use might loose power after getting decapitated, and if Shredder landed on his belly, he couldn't get out. But Shredder was smart and modified his suit to have the battery elsewhere.

07-03-2009, 03:04 PM	#29
deathtojohnny Thug Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 50	What's always bothered me was how Karai was supposed to be his daughter. Why in satan's glorious name would an evil alien take a young human girl under his wing? Doesn't make sense in the slightest. The main reason they wanted to make Shredder an Utrom was so that they could connect the Ninja Turtles' origin to Shredder's even further. Having a Mystic Shredder helped a bit by having the Ch'rell take Oroku Saki and Shredder forms by following his legend.

08-07-2009, 02:16 AM	#32
Turo602 The King of Kings Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Chicago Illinois Posts: 2,931	Another dumb thing is that in The episode (Fathers and sons) Splinter tells the Ancient One that Yoshi has been slade by the Utrom Shredder. And this was when the Turtles were Little Mutant Training Turtles.

08-08-2009, 08:10 PM	#36
Coola Yagami Overlord Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 15,672	The Mystics knew they were fakes but had no choice. It seems they were forced to obey whoever held that jewel thing. Even when they tricked Bishop into destroying it, they said they were finally 'free of the impostor'. They knew Karai wasa fake and had to serve her, so they probably knew Chrell was a fake too and still had to serve him.

08-09-2009, 07:38 AM	#40
ToTheNines Col. Stinkmeaner Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 19,177	My gripe is they never explain how their entrapment occured. Just that story alone would have been a better episode than most of the Ninja Tribunal bull.