Was the Rat King really a villain in Mirage canon?

Keldor1578 · 10-15-2009, 09:55 AM

He only face the turtles one time in Mirage comic, He seem more of mysterious character rather than an actual villain.

*Cipher* · 10-15-2009, 12:09 PM

Only in his first issue.

*Spitfire* · 10-15-2009, 12:38 PM

They sorta turned him into on in the Tales Volume 2 issue where they made up that stupid origin for him.

TristanHuwJones · 10-15-2009, 12:55 PM

I'm not so sure that origin is canon. It's not mentioned anywhere in the Universe book...

Tuxedo Moroboshi · 10-15-2009, 01:12 PM

I'm not sure if calling him a villain really works, but he definitely wasn't an ally, either. I think that's what makes him so interesting, honestly. And you should really check out the City at War arc. The Rat King really shines there, in my opinion.

Aztec General · 10-15-2009, 02:51 PM

The "origin" was awful. It better not be canon.

*CyberCubed* · 10-15-2009, 03:56 PM

Yeah, that origin made more sense for the Archie universe Rat King, not the Mirage one.

I prefer Rat King to just be some maniac who lives with rats...attempting to give him a backstory just ruins him.

BoggleKng · 10-15-2009, 07:36 PM

love the City at War take...

*Spitfire* · 10-16-2009, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

I'm not so sure that origin is canon. It's not mentioned anywhere in the Universe book...

I assumed it was. Everything at this point seems to be or I would imagine so unless stated otherwise. It also makes some connections as to what happened to Splinter after he died.

If it's not in the book I don't know then but I assumed everything coming out now was cannon.

TristanHuwJones · 10-16-2009, 06:43 AM

There are a few details of stories in Murph's entries to the Universe book that tend to exclude events from stories he wrote (and that, based on the range this Universe book is reaching issue wise, should be in there). A number of stories by Bill Moulage -- in fact, just about everything, seem to have been left out. I'm going to be putting bits and pieces back in where they fit, but we'll see what stands come December I guess!

Keldor1578 · 10-16-2009, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clown Prince of Crime

I'm not sure if calling him a villain really works, but he definitely wasn't an ally, either. I think that's what makes him so interesting, honestly. And you should really check out the City at War arc. The Rat King really shines there, in my opinion.

He actually save Spinter in the City at war arc, by telling him to eat a rat in order to suvive.Even in the old toon The Rat King helped the turtles once.What made him great is that he's a neutral character, Sometimes he a foe or an ally.

*Andrew NDB* · 10-19-2009, 03:29 PM

Rat King/The Monster was never a villain... but certainly no hero, either.

*Cipher* · 10-19-2009, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Rat King/The Monster was never a villain... but certainly no hero, either.

I don't see in what way he wasn't a villain in "I, Monster." He may be delusional, but he's just a straight up antagonist in that issue with no hint of duality.

Even looking at the end of the issue, I have a niggling suspicion that Mirage intended to set him up as a recurring villain a la Complete Carnage, but never got the chance to use him again until he was re-defined in "City at War."

Dragon Turtle · 10-19-2009, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

There are a few details of stories in Murph's entries to the Universe book that tend to exclude events from stories he wrote (and that, based on the range this Universe book is reaching issue wise, should be in there). A number of stories by Bill Moulage -- in fact, just about everything, seem to have been left out. I'm going to be putting bits and pieces back in where they fit, but we'll see what stands come December I guess!

About how many characters are covered in the MU book, and is the format similar to Marvels old OHOTMU or like the recent DC Encyclopedia?

*Andrew NDB* · 10-19-2009, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cipher Classic

I don't see in what way he wasn't a villain in "I, Monster." He may be delusional, but he's just a straight up antagonist in that issue with no hint of duality.

Even looking at the end of the issue, I have a niggling suspicion that Mirage intended to set him up as a recurring villain a la Complete Carnage, but never got the chance to use him again until he was re-defined in "City at War."

From his later appearances we kind of have to apply a layer of duality to his first appearance in Tales.

*ToTheNines* · 02-11-2026, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

There are a few details of stories in Murph's entries to the Universe book that tend to exclude events from stories he wrote (and that, based on the range this Universe book is reaching issue wise, should be in there). A number of stories by Bill Moulage -- in fact, just about everything, seem to have been left out. I'm going to be putting bits and pieces back in where they fit, but we'll see what stands come December I guess!

Was Bill Moulage another Murphy pseudonym? The guys only credits are some random TMNT stores and Puma Blues. Plus it seems odd that Murphy would give this guy work but then seemingly single out his contributions and omit them from the sourcebook.

Kinda seems like maybe he used that name when he wasn’t particularly proud of a story.

10-15-2009, 09:55 AM	#1
Keldor1578 Hench Mutant Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 265	Was the Rat King really a villain in Mirage canon? He only face the turtles one time in Mirage comic, He seem more of mysterious character rather than an actual villain.

10-15-2009, 12:38 PM	#3
Spitfire Writer • Director Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 12,035	They sorta turned him into on in the Tales Volume 2 issue where they made up that stupid origin for him. __________________ Check out my online portfolio http://www.christopherpelletier.com/

10-15-2009, 12:55 PM	#4
TristanHuwJones Official TMNT Staff/Cast Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,419	I'm not so sure that origin is canon. It's not mentioned anywhere in the Universe book... __________________ Still alive (somehow)... tristansbones.bsky.social and instagram @ instagram.com/tristans_bones

10-15-2009, 01:12 PM	#5
Tuxedo Moroboshi Mad Scientist Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Battle Nexus Posts: 1,127	I'm not sure if calling him a villain really works, but he definitely wasn't an ally, either. I think that's what makes him so interesting, honestly. And you should really check out the City at War arc. The Rat King really shines there, in my opinion. __________________ Hey, be sure to check out my art!

10-15-2009, 02:51 PM	#6
Aztec General Mad Scientist Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,437	The "origin" was awful. It better not be canon. __________________

10-15-2009, 12:09 PM	#2
Cipher Foot Elite Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 3,454	Only in his first issue.

10-15-2009, 03:56 PM	#7
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,721	Yeah, that origin made more sense for the Archie universe Rat King, not the Mirage one. I prefer Rat King to just be some maniac who lives with rats...attempting to give him a backstory just ruins him.

10-15-2009, 07:36 PM	#8
BoggleKng Mad Scientist Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Boston, Ma Posts: 1,224	love the City at War take... __________________ You guys mind telling me what you're doing to my little green pal over there, hm? -Casey Jones, TMNT movie...

10-16-2009, 06:43 AM	#10
TristanHuwJones Official TMNT Staff/Cast Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,419	There are a few details of stories in Murph's entries to the Universe book that tend to exclude events from stories he wrote (and that, based on the range this Universe book is reaching issue wise, should be in there). A number of stories by Bill Moulage -- in fact, just about everything, seem to have been left out. I'm going to be putting bits and pieces back in where they fit, but we'll see what stands come December I guess! __________________ Still alive (somehow)... tristansbones.bsky.social and instagram @ instagram.com/tristans_bones

10-19-2009, 03:29 PM	#12
Andrew NDB Weed Whacker Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 34,274	Rat King/The Monster was never a villain... but certainly no hero, either. __________________ [ ODYSSEY \| ORIGIN \| THE IMAGE/VOL. 3 CONCLUSION \| THE SHELLSHOCKED PODCAST \| ON FACEBOOK ]