Seein Red

[Spitfire]

They're teenagers so the flaw in that logic is they crave individuality and despise uniformity. It actually makes plenty of sense for them to not only have colored bandannas but want them. They're not a real ninja clan anyways. Splinter isn't the revenge hungry man with questionable morals in anything but the comics.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

They're teenagers so the flaw in that logic is they crave individuality and despise uniformity.

Regular tykes like you or I used to be with puberty and hormones and all that stuff, maybe. These are mutant turtles growing up in a drainage sewer with some weird rat as their ninjitsu teacher/quasi-father figure. These weren't kids going to school slipping notes to Suzie in 3rd period or fed up with, to paraphrase Will Smith, "parents who don't understand."

And if you're imagining some kind of story where the Turtles as young teenagers sock it to Splinter and say, "No, Master Splinter! We're not wearing your stupid red bandannas, we're getting our own colors!" and sort of rebel against the color red... then you're just talking about fanfiction.

It actually makes plenty of sense for them to not only have colored bandannas but want them. They're not a real ninja clan anyways.

Of course they are. Raised and trained to assassinate a man.

Maybe they're missing the Ultra-Covert-Handshake-Secret-Kick-in-the-Ass approval of The Official Ninja Authentication Committee™ but they're certainly a ninja clan in every way that matters.

Plus they say they are. Similarly, the Foot have recognized them as such in the past.

Splinter isn't the revenge hungry man with questionable morals in anything but the actual source material itself.

Fixed that for you.

And is that not enough? It ought to be.

[Turo602]

Then that means the TMNT aren't real Ninjas. Since when were Turtles ninjas and since when did ninjas live in the sewers and eat pizza and pull money oughta there ass to pay for pizza and even able to speak or communicate with a rat and a lady named April and a guy wearing a hockey mask. Oh right in comics, movies, and in cartoons. People complaining on Turtles needing to be a clan and wearing matching uniforms. It doesn't matter and the point is that the TMNT look cooler and look more independent with multicolored headbands. Thats what killed the X-Men movies, matching uniforms. There not multicolored for them, but for our sakes.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Turo602

Thats what killed the X-Men movies, matching uniforms.

That's mega bullsh*t.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Turo602

Then that means the TMNT aren't real Ninjas. Since when were Turtles ninjas and since when did ninjas live in the sewers and eat pizza and pull money oughta there ass to pay for pizza

How many times do you see the Turtles ordering pizza in the sewers in the comics? I can't think of any.

And though I can't think of any times I saw them eating pizza in the core comics, I'm pretty sure if there were times it would've been at April's place or such. And I'm pretty sure April has money.

and even able to speak or communicate with a rat and a lady named April and a guy wearing a hockey mask. Oh right in comics, movies, and in cartoons. People complaining on Turtles needing to be a clan and wearing matching uniforms.

These are non-arguments. You might as well say about Batman, "Why shouldn't Batman start wearing low-cut speedos, sunglasses and a bright belt buckle that has a 'B' on it? It's already a story about a guy dressing up like a bat to fight crime, so why not make it even sillier?"

The answer is simple: because that'd be stupid.

It doesn't matter and the point is that the TMNT look cooler and look more independent with multicolored headbands.

In your opinion... which is pretty clearly biased by a nostalgia for the cartoons. Not that there's anything wrong with the cartoons or even that there's anything wrong with you for having an affinity for them... but let's call a spade a spade.

Thats what killed the X-Men movies, matching uniforms. There not multicolored for them, but for our sakes.

Nonsense.

[Powder]

Red is better. I would prefer red. They want to make it like the comic? Red. Real ninjas have a clan symbol/color & in the case of the hamato CLAN, that is red. Look at the foot CLAN in the first movie... they at least knew enough to let THEM match. If they insist on multi-color I would at least hope for an explanation... they could start red and change for April or individuality or whatever the hell else...

RED RED RED.

And for those of you trying to rationalize the absurdity of ninjas living in the sewer and interacting with hockey mask wearing vigilantes, give it up. Walking talking turtles wouldnt even happen anyway BUt if they did, & they were raised only to know one thing, ninjitsu, such should be presented in the most realistic way possible. At the least they could give them slightly different shades of red because its not like they could walk in to a department store and buy 4 of them... they would've just come across them in their travels or something.

Not mention, me & Andrew have had this talk before, whats up with all the 'code of bushido' crap leo spews out? COB is for SAMURAI not ninja. Ninjas are assassins with little to no sense of honor. Red bandanas, ruthlessness, these would be qualities to bring in huge box office numbers; a whole 'new' side to the turtles.

[Turo602]

Originally Posted by Powder

Red bandanas, ruthlessness, these would be qualities to bring in huge box office numbers; a whole 'new' side to the turtles.

That will screw over the rest of the audience except the HARDCORE original TMNT comics fans.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Powder

Not mention, me & Andrew have had this talk before, whats up with all the 'code of bushido' crap leo spews out? COB is for SAMURAI not ninja. Ninjas are assassins with little to no sense of honor. Red bandanas, ruthlessness, these would be qualities to bring in huge box office numbers; a whole 'new' side to the turtles.

Bushido translates as "the way of the warrior," which speaks of the way a warrior -- be it a samurai or otherwise -- conducts themself in battle.

While "an honorable ninja" is virtually a contradiction in terms, it's not impossible. There's just no real historical precedent for it.

I kind of like that dichotomy about the Turtles in the comics. They're torn between the ninja they were trained to be from near birth (this sort of, "beneath the surface, they're all killers" thing) and kind of "doing the right thing." Which never ascends to a level where they're like actively fighting crime or anything (which would be pretty apocryphal to what the Turtles are all about, in my book), but you know... if someone is getting beaten or robbed right in front of them, if they just happen to be there at that time maybe they'd step in. You know?

[Vivi]

As the new movie will most likely have multi-colored headbands, I would prefer no reasoning behind it.

But if necessary, my favorite 'explanation' of the different colors so far has been when the Ancient One unceremoniously handed out different bandannas to the turtles when they were young, with no thought behind who got what. As popular as the Ancient One seems to be around here.

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by Powder

Red bandanas, ruthlessness, these would be qualities to bring in huge box office numbers; a whole 'new' side to the turtles.

No it wouldn't movies typically make 60% of their money over seas. Over seas they know the turtles as having colors. Most of the comics never really made it China or most of Asia. They have no idea the turtles ever wore red. In fact when NECA released their turtles line over seas they complained it sold poorly because the market thought they were discolored.

Also I don't know how ruthless you're going for but it's very rare rated R films make lots of money. Turtles being a kids property in the public eye for the past 20 years would make it suicide to try something like that. Oh yeah we would love the movie, no doubts there, but it's not the best for the property.

I agree with you guys, I'd like to see the turtles represented just as they were in the comics on the big screen. However I know how Hollywood works and I don't see it happening, not with this movie anyways. This movie is made to promote a Nicktoons cartoon series. I'd be floored if it was anything higher then PG. The new toon will feature colored bandannas as they want to rework the format of the old series and reapply it for today's audience.

If turtles fell off the map for awhile and came back with an in your face PG-13 or R rated movie I could see this working. They're not in that place right now through. They're still fresh and front running the "retro 80's" fad right now. Lots of people would skip the movie over them changing something they see to be solid fact. We may know the turtles as killers with no remorse but the average person knows them as pizza eating teenagers who like to skate board and make corny jokes. That's what people want to see. Take the innocence away from those characters for people and you'll piss them off. You can say you don't care about those people or what they think but it's because of those people turtles are even still around. As a fan base we don't generate enough revenue to the property to overcome that.

[Turo602]

Yeah, that's why I loved the 2k3 show so much. Because it represented the comics and also kept there own creativity. And also had different color headbands.

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by Vivi

But if necessary, my favorite 'explanation' of the different colors so far has been when the Ancient One unceremoniously handed out different bandannas to the turtles when they were young, with no thought behind who got what. As popular as the Ancient One seems to be around here.

I could honestly care less about the bandana colors. I mean, I vastly prefer red, but I won't be crushed if they show up multi-colored.

But keep the Ancient One the hell away from this movie at all costs. And all future iterations of the franchise, for that matter.

[CyberCubed]

The bitterness in this thread is astounding.

I prefer them red in the comics but colored in multimedia like the cartoons and movies.

Even Peter Laird himself said he didn't mind the multi-colored bandanas, as long as it was just the head bandana and not the arm/leg bands or the initial belts.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

No it wouldn't movies typically make 60% of their money over seas. Over seas they know the turtles as having colors. Most of the comics never really made it China or most of Asia. They have no idea the turtles ever wore red.

Once again, a new movie isn't going to be made or broken by any existing TMNT fandom... so overly concerning themselves with them would be pointless and an exercise in futility.

Also I don't know how ruthless you're going for but it's very rare rated R films make lots of money.

It's interesting that any time someone suggests the TMNT actually white-knuckle it a bit, the cartoon advocates immediately jump to, "An R-rated movie won't work!"

Nobody's talking about an R-rated movie. PG-13 is a perfectly equitable middle ground for all parties.

I agree with you guys, I'd like to see the turtles represented just as they were in the comics on the big screen. However I know how Hollywood works and I don't see it happening, not with this movie anyways. This movie is made to promote a Nicktoons cartoon series.

The timing is coincidental, but what's good for the goose is good for the gander in this case. It was not intentional and one is not linked to the other, I can tell you.

If turtles fell off the map for awhile and came back with an in your face PG-13 or R rated movie I could see this working.

That might be the ideal scenario, but do realize that there's a huge chasm between an "in your face PG-13" Turtles movie and an "in your face R-rated" Turtles movie.

They're not in that place right now through. They're still fresh and front running the "retro 80's" fad right now. Lots of people would skip the movie over them changing something they see to be solid fact.

I agree the media focus of late has been... counter-productive to what a edgier PG-13 TMNT movie might be, but not necessarily. It's not like a PG-13 TMNT movie is going to be "Ninja Assassin" -- it just means the combat will actually have a little bit of teeth, and maybe the language not so Sesame Streety.

We may know the turtles as killers with no remorse but the average person knows them as pizza eating teenagers who like to skate board and make corny jokes. That's what people want to see.

We're back to the existing fandom... once again, already aged out of the target demographic and a non-issue. It's already been 3 years since the last movie which was allllll about skateboarding and corny jokes and that movie failed to perform.

My point: before you make excuses for it (it was CGI! no Shredder! etc.), if that's what audiences and this big, expansive, active TMNT fandom ready to buy movie tickets as you would have us believe there is want to see, why didn't they bother to show up to see the last movie?

More importantly, why should a movie studio/financiers bank on trying the same tactic as the last movie (kiddified, toyified) for the next movie? That seems dangerously close to the definition of insanity: trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

It's time for change in our mass media Turtles, people! Change!



Can I get a witness? Can I get a hallelujah?

Take the innocence away from those characters for people and you'll piss them off.

In other words, when they fight keep it toothless, and make sure Mikey doesn't use his nunchuks?

Who are these people? Tell me, so I can go to their door and backhand them.

You can say you don't care about those people or what they think

I don't have to say that -- it's a movie studio fact of life.

Originally Posted by Turo602

Yeah, that's why I loved the 2k3 show so much. Because it represented the comics

Not hardly. Except the Kirby episode and maybe most of I, Monster -- those were pretty close.

Even Peter Laird himself said he didn't mind the multi-colored bandanas, as long as it was just the head bandana and not the arm/leg bands or the initial belts.

In a gotta-pick-your-battles sort of way, yes, Laird has said he will take the colored bandannas over the letters on their belts -- if it's gotta be one or the other.

[Spitfire]

If you can make that case to Nick and whatever studio they work with please do. I'm no cartoon advocate. I snobbishly reject most of 2K3 because they butchered a lot of the comic storylines by toning them down or changing things that didn't need to be changed. The idea of a turtles movie that's more then just a kids film is something I've wanted for a long time. I just know all the things working against it. It's interesting to see people's reasoning for why it would work.

I agree with almost everything you said. While I didn't like TMNT in the least it performed quite well. It made back 3 times what it cost to make. It cost 34 and made back almost 96. Not the hugest of numbers but the movie was pretty cheap. WB was happy with the return.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

If you can make that case to Nick and whatever studio they work with please do.

The Paramount movie's wheels were already in motion before the Nick deal, and the Paramount movie sounds like it's quite a different beast.

Which isn't to say that Nick doesn't have the power to come in at the 11th hour and veto things and change stuff up... but it doesn't sound like they're doing that.

I agree with almost everything you said. While I didn't like TMNT in the least it performed quite well. It made back 3 times what it cost to make. It cost 34

That's just the production budget. Marketing budget on a film like that would have been at least 15 to 20 million... which still leaves a bit of profit but profit alone does not make a major studio release like that a "success."

In fact, they flat out told us it was expected to do 100 million domestically and it didn't even come close to doing half of that.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Marketing budget on a film like that would have been at least 15 to 20 million

Are you sure about that? They hardly advertised the sh*t at all.

I remember it was #1 in the country in its first week, I was quite pissed that they didn't have a commercial boasting that fact like every other movie does.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Are you sure about that? They hardly advertised the sh*t at all.

That's a modest estimate. It's actually probably closer to 25 million.

http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/2007/TMNT.php

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

That's a modest estimate. It's actually probably closer to 25 million.

http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/2007/TMNT.php

Well, I am not a pussy who ignores facts.

[Turo602]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Well, I am not a pussy who ignores facts.

Were you copying me. If you were then