Talkback: Laird's 2k3 development notes!

[Jester]

Originally Posted by Xav

Though I don't think the writers saw what Laird said. He was talking to Lloyd Goldfine, who probably just told the writers what Laird wanted.

That's a good point, Lloyd was probably the "middle man" who censored, or at least softened, Laird's points. Though, now one wonders how many of the 4Kids staff reads these blogs...

I used to be one of those who saw these as nitpicks, then (with help from a certain forum friend and cohort) I realized, these guys are professional writers, some of these things they have little excuse for.

[FearlessLeader]

Originally Posted by Jester

I used to be one of those who saw these as nitpicks, then (with help from a certain forum friend and cohort) I realized, these guys are professional writers, some of these things they have little excuse for.

THIS!

It's bad enough they attempt to write for a franchise without at times understanding the fundamental characterizations of the creations they are writing for but the grammar errors are just unforgivable for a professional.

I mean imagine if you were reading a magazine and there were mistakes every 3rd of 4th sentence. I am pretty certain you would be annoyed to be paying to read it.

[The Big Bad]

These aren't final versions of the scripts, though: they're drafts in what are mostly early stages of production. Consistency and sense, and yes, spelling, are less important than figuring out what works and what doesn't work. While the evidence rather unambiguously seems to show that Laird's touch improved every script, there's also little evidence that they wouldn't have improved without him (and yes, I know that would mean proving a negative).

On another note, I guess we can now safely discard the theory that the drop in quality in the last two seasons was due to Laird's lack of supervision. Right now I'm leaning towards short deadlines myself, especially since both seasons got better as they went along, production-wise.

Also, looking at the info we've gotten for "Obsolete", I'm surprised that we haven't gotten any inkling about Starlee's existence yet. It makes me wonder in what order characters were conceived in. And dangit, we better get official art of her, and Darius. They're the two biggest FF characters we haven't gotten art of yet.

[CyberCubed]

Yeah it seems PL was just as critical of the FF scripts. I am glad he shot down the idea of bubbles blowing out of Mike's ears when he was scared...seriously WTF was up with that?

Some of these writers really are retarded. Its hard to believe the majority of the 4kids series turned out quite good after seeing how bad it could have been.

[Xav]

Originally Posted by The Big Bad

Also, looking at the info we've gotten for "Obsolete", I'm surprised that we haven't gotten any inkling about Starlee's existence yet. It makes me wonder in what order characters were conceived in. And dangit, we better get official art of her, and Darius. They're the two biggest FF characters we haven't gotten art of yet.

Laird posted art of Starlee on his blog.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-JgXLEJwykE...00/starlee.jpg

[Raven]

Originally Posted by oldmanwinters

Laird's critical tone has been a source of debate amongst the fandom, but I've come to the conclusion that most of the writers who did the actual scripts for the 4Kids show did some really terrible work, despite their best efforts. They failed at grammar, logic, and characterization. Laird and Lloyd Goldfine really salvaged the show and turned it into a pretty respectable action cartoon. Without them, the show could have been abyssal.

Even the commonly disliked Fast Forward and Back to the Sewer seasons that we ultimately got were substantially better than what we could have seen on TV.

yea now after looking through these again I kind of can see where Mr. Laird is coming from. These guys are getting paid for this and this is what there turning out? I guess I would be just as critical as he was.

Plus when your making a show of high quality some of these scripts seem kind of hammed up. Im really glad to see Mr. Laird put some pressure on them.

[Killer Moth]

http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot....9-2005-re.html

Not the absoulte latest, but here he just posted his past contentions about the series' use of Serling. He's fine with the character, but the whole character treatment of "a character in his own right vs. his goofy robot butler archetype." I don't disagree, as the series seemed to go back-and-forth about that. (Bear in mind, I haven't viewed Fast Forward in years, so anyone is free to refresh my memory.)

Bonus points for Laird's "Lost In Space" reference, because I'm obviously an old-school nerd.

[oldmanwinters]

Peter Laird suggests introducing "Space Usagi!":
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot....r-15-2005.html

[Killer Moth]

Originally Posted by oldmanwinters

Peter Laird suggests introducing "Space Usagi!":
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot....r-15-2005.html

It's a shame that wasn't able to occur. Space Usagi would have fit right in with Fast Forward. Maybe if the concept kept going, they might have gone there. After all, weren't they about to devise a Triceraton Shredder? Or so I heard.

This bit from the "Night of Sh'Okanabo" first draft is amusing:

"SH’OKANABO (CONT’D)
I will eliminate myself. TONIGHT."

All right! The end of the big bad guy -- and he's going to do it himself! Woo hoo! That's great! I --


Uh...


... I just realized -- that line's probably just missing a "them" between "eliminate" and "myself". Darn.

http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot....r-14-2005.html

"Darn," indeed. Still can't stop laughing.

[MikeandRaph87]

Hey guys,Peter Laird comments on the alien debacle on his TMNT Blog:
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot....urtles-as.html
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot..../question.html
Its an extension to a reply to a comment if any are interested.

[CyberCubed]

After reading the latest FF scripts, its nice to see some cringeworthy dialogue and useless belching scenes removed.

At the same time, how did some of it still make it into episodes? In the wrestling episode, Raph says "Cowabunga" after knocking down Triple Threat. How the hell did that get past Peter Laird? He even removes that line from a different episode.

I also can't believe he didn't have them re-write Mike's dialogue during the Turtle Titan episode.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

After reading the latest FF scripts, its nice to see some cringeworthy dialogue and useless belching scenes removed.

At the same time, how did some of it still make it into episodes? In the wrestling episode, Raph says "Cowabunga" after knocking down Triple Threat. How the hell did that get past Peter Laird? He even removes that line from a different episode.

I also can't believe he didn't have them re-write Mike's dialogue during the Turtle Titan episode.

Come on,dude,Cowabunga says it all!

If he did not focus all the humor on Michelangelo it would have been better.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

After reading the latest FF scripts, its nice to see some cringeworthy dialogue and useless belching scenes removed.

At the same time, how did some of it still make it into episodes? In the wrestling episode, Raph says "Cowabunga" after knocking down Triple Threat. How the hell did that get past Peter Laird? He even removes that line from a different episode.

I also can't believe he didn't have them re-write Mike's dialogue during the Turtle Titan episode.

Because the morons at 4Kids think their jokes are funny.

THEY ARE NOT. FF and BttS are considered the weakest seasons because of their terrible jokes and plotless storylines.

There's a reason that they aired FF and BttS more often and I think that's because PL had little influence on them and therefore 4Kids thought it was better because it was, in essence, 95% 4Kids written.

[stormbringer]

Originally Posted by TheSkeletonMan939

Because the morons at 4Kids think their jokes are funny.

THEY ARE NOT. FF and BttS are considered the weakest seasons because of their terrible jokes and plotless storylines.

There's a reason that they aired FF and BttS more often and I think that's because PL had little influence on them and therefore 4Kids thought it was better because it was, in essence, 95% 4Kids written.

Well clearly 4Kids was correct, since FF and BttS lasted so many seasons. Oh wait a minute....

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by TheSkeletonMan939

There's a reason that they aired FF and BttS more often and I think that's because PL had little influence on them and therefore 4Kids thought it was better because it was, in essence, 95% 4Kids written.

Plotless storylines? The hell? Fast Forward had a very clear narrative and cohesive story arc. They didn't get to finish the Darius/Dark Turtle arc but everything else was properly done.

I always found it laughable the way some people act like FF had no continuity or no plot, when in reality it was just as narrative driven as the past 5 seasons.

[The Big Bad]

Hooray! Finally, we get to see Darius Dun's complete character model--I was starting to believe we wouldn't see it. It's interesting to compare it with the model Boardman had shown some years back; coloring aside, it's nearly identical, except you can see how it's been streamlined to fit the Fast Forward aesthetic by removing the various clothing folds.

[Xav]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Plotless storylines? The hell? Fast Forward had a very clear narrative and cohesive story arc. They didn't get to finish the Darius/Dark Turtle arc but everything else was properly done.

I always found it laughable the way some people act like FF had no continuity or no plot, when in reality it was just as narrative driven as the past 5 seasons.

No it wasn't as narrative driven. It didn't even have one multi-part episode.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Xav

No it wasn't. It didn't even have one multi-part episode.

True ,however both had not just episode length plots but season long ones as well. Fastforward especially had multiple ongoing plots. I do not love it but it has some good points to it as well.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Xav

No it wasn't. It didn't even have one multi-part episode.

What does not having multipart episodes have anything to do with a season long story arc?

[Xav]

But it didn't just have one story arc, it was all over place.