Is anyone here upset by "Booyakasha"?

[Candy Kappa]

I think Viacom is strong enough to fight those who tries to pin racism on a catchphrase in one of their children's television show.

If any countries have any issues with it, it'll probably be re-dubbed in that country

[ScratchTheHotSpot]

Genesis,
Pointing out my typing errors, grammar, and punctuation mistakes, is not really much of a contribution to this debate. I think you, and everybody else knew my original intention, whenever I mixed up "it's" with "its" or vice versa.

Originally Posted by Vincent

Truth is not a democracy, but it's also not affected by the wide spread of unfounded claims on the Internet.
Youtube comments are not credible sources, sorry.

Yes, exactly the point I was making with that comment. Internet sources from forums, or whatever, aren't credible sources for the meaning, which ever side you take for it's meaning. It gets you no closer to one single definition. What it doesn't do though, is prove that there is ambiguity with the meaning of "booyakasha".

Originally Posted by Vincent

Around 12 years ago? The salute "Booyaka! Booyaka!" has been around for a bit longer than that.

As I stated in posts before this, the full word I'm talking about it "booyakasha". That was the word which I was given the definition of. Not "boo ya ka", please don't mix this up.

Originally Posted by Vincent

No, I was commenting on the ignorance in the media as well. the ignorance that has equated gangsta rap with hip-hop, even though the very foundation of hip-hop culture (as established by Afrika Bambaataa and others, over three decades ago) is one of non-violence and peacefully embracing the arts as a substitute for delinquency.

Originally Posted by Vincent

you use the term "hip-hop culture" exactly the way the ignorant media does (which directly contradicts its intended meaning), and insist that this is fine when confronted about it. Can we have a bit of consistency here?

Hip-hop encompasses gangster rap. All gangster rap, is a form of hip hop. Not all hip hop, is gangster rap, when talking about the full history of the art form. That's the difference, and we seem to agree on this point. I never equated gangster rap with hip hop. I was pointing out, that in pop culture today, a high precentage of hip hop music in the main stream is concerned with violence.


I'm not going to quote your whole history that starts from 1994, but in previous posts, I found reference to "boo ya ka" in a song made in 1993 by KRS-One, an artist that is known to use influences, and flavours of Jamaican culture. You may think, "wow one year, big deal?", but it's an artist releasing a song on a different continent, and a different genre of music to that of General Levy. Both of which, have used Jamacian culture in their work.

I don't think you can conclude that "boo ya ka" is a shortened version of "booyakasha", because as you pointed out, you can't find any uses of "booyakasha" in mainstream culture, before Ali G.

You also seem confused, that I have suggested "boo ya ka" to be racist. This is not the case. All I have suggested about "boo ya ka", and also "boo ya", is that it's a onomatopoeic word, that derives from the sound of shooting off a gun, in a very similar way to the phrase "Brap" has been derived. There has been no suggestion anywhere, that those two phrases, which you speculate to be shortened versions of "booyakasha" are racist. Please don't confuse the distinction I've made.

I'd also like to address what you said about General Levy, and the response to whether this signifies a gun-shot. Would he really admit to it anyway? A pop song, that includes references to gun-violence. Something which would probably catch alot of heat in the UK, as the UK's gun laws are pretty strict. You all know that the word "Ninja" was censored in the UK, around this time, and replaced with "Hero", regarding TMNT. So is it really a suprise that "boo ya ka" was claimed to be innocent?

I also don't recall Ali G purely using the shortened "boo ya ka" at all. It was almost always "booyakasha", and is the word that has become attached to this character. Without going back, and watching every episode, plus the feature film, I cannot know this for certain, but I would definately put money on the fact that "boo ya ka" on its own, was rarely used.

[Mr.Turtle]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

I think Viacom is strong enough to fight those who tries to pin racism on a catchphrase in one of their children's television show.

If any countries have any issues with it, it'll probably be re-dubbed in that country

maybe they will redub it back to cowabanga.

[Vincent]

I wrote a really long post responding to everything you just said, ScratchTheHotSpot, but then, thanks to your KRS-One reference, I found something, and Youtube crashed my browser (thanks, Google Chrome). But that doesn't matter, because this overshadows most, if not all of what I had typed.

There were two 1993 tracks where KRS-One said something like "booyaka". One being "Mortal Thought", and the other being "Mad Crew", where he said something like "Buck-buck-buck-buck, booyakashan!".
Well, that certainly brings us closer to the answer.
I also found a couple of references to the Irish word "buíochas", meaning "praised be" or "thanks". Considering how many Irish people were sent to Jamaica in the 1600s (and yes, also considering the Jamaican influence on KRS-One), this seems like a very likely part of the origin of Booyakasha/Booyakashan. The gunshot-onomatopoeic use of "booyaka" may have been a back-formation (and the two easiest ways to find out whether this happened before or after 1993 would be to either ask KRS-One what he meant, or to find an earlier reference to booyakasha, booyakashan or booyaka).
Still nothing on the "kill whitey" angle, though. But let's keep looking.

This is all very interesting. It'd be really funny if it turns out TMNT are yelling out the equivalent of "Have a nice day!" as a battle cry.

[zkarlette]

Well the saying Booyah was already used commonly and it meant to be an exclamation of joy.
Kasha Is a cereal so...they are probably excited for cereal?

[Genesis]

Oh, you guys know I'm just teasing. My inent was to try and steer things in another direction, but perhaps simply avoiding this thread is my best option, from here on out.

[Vincent]

In my current rewatching of the 4Kids series, I have so far encountered two booya's. One from Casey, as mentioned earlier, and one from Mikey (in Notes from the Underground, Part 3).

[ScratchTheHotSpot]

Well in the interest of moving this debate forward, I suggest we put aside the racial insult meaning of "booyakahsa". It is clearly debatable, as we've discussed.

I think a word from irish imigrants that moved to a country, 300 - 400 years ago, seems a little unlikely that this is the most probable origin of the word as you've suggested. Of course, anything is possible, its just seems that this is stretching things abit far.

I've found an interesting link here,
http://www.djklusta.co.uk/index.php?id=62

The explanations listed here seem to link the words "Bo" "Booyaka" and "Boomshot" as similar words, that simulate gunshots. The interesting part, is the part that says, "In jamaica people used to fire blanks all the time when a tune was big."

In my previous post about the KRS-One song, Mad Crew, I also explained about a conflict between, KRS and a rapper called MC Shan. To me, the intent of the "shan" part in "booyaka-shan", would suggest to me, that this was directed at that rapper, and certainly not in a celebratory way, but more to do with shooting off rounds in MC Shan's direction, some-what metaphorically.

I think that the use of the celebratory meaning is appropriate in such contexts as Jamaican-related music culture, as the origins of the art-form, comes from places where guns were let off in celebration.

I just feel that when the word is removed from that context, it starts to aquire more ignorant characteristics. For example, the "brap" analogy I used afew posts back. You seemed to agree that, that would be a problem if the tmnt used that as a catch-phrase. To me, the words "brap" and "booyaka" are very similar in the way that they were derived, which would be, a simulation of gun fire. Well the reason that you agreed it would be a problem, is because the context of guns is removed, when it's used in tmnt.

This is essentially my under-lying point, that the context of tmnt, is far removed from the original context of "booyaka". Even "brap" now seems to be a popular word to shout in celebration, but you wouldn't hear the phrase "brap" in rock music, because it doesn't fit that genre of music.

That is also what Ali G tried to demonstrate. When the use of a word is taken out of context, and said just to "sound cool", it appears idiotic, and ignorant, to the point that it can be considered comical.

Whether the "sha" part means anything or not, the "booyaka" part certainly points towards guns used in celebration, or guns used in hatred.

[Vincent]

Originally Posted by ScratchTheHotSpot

In my previous post about the KRS-One song, Mad Crew, I also explained about a conflict between, KRS and a rapper called MC Shan. To me, the intent of the "shan" part in "booyaka-shan", would suggest to me, that this was directed at that rapper, and certainly not in a celebratory way, but more to do with shooting off rounds in MC Shan's direction, some-what metaphorically.

That does seem quite plausible.

Originally Posted by ScratchTheHotSpot

Whether the "sha" part means anything or not, the "booyaka" part certainly points towards guns used in celebration, or guns used in hatred.

While I at first was near certain that booyaka was derived from onomatopoeia, I'm now split just about 50/50 between that and the "buíochas" theory in terms of plausibility (words can go through many strange uses and transformations in a few centuries). However, I think we can both agree in either case that it definitely has a history of being used to evoke the idea of gunshots. Then again, so has "booya", and that was spoken at least twice in the 4Kids series (and I seem to remember one more instance from previous viewings), so this is not the first time some form of the word has appeared in TMNT. In my opinion, at this point in time, the origins and past uses of the word has lost relevance, due to having gained a new meaning. This is something that happens to words. They achieve wider use, and take on new meanings. Some words go from describing mundane things to becoming sexualized or violent, other words go from describing sexual or violent or even medical things and end up becoming mundane. "Idiot" used to be a medical term (and now it's not even offensive to use as an insult, unlike "retarded" which was also a medical term until more recently - most likely, nobody will consider that word offensive to the mentally disabled either in a generation or two, as it will no longer have the same association), gay used to mean happy (now it means homosexual), awesome and awful both used to mean awe-inspiring (now one means very nifty and the other means very bad).
This is called semantic change, and it happens all the time. Booya, Booyaka and Booyakasha are now primarily used as greetings and cowabunga-like exclamations (as everything from battle cry to friendly greeting), and there is plenty of precedent for "booya" being used in cartoons aimed at children (and even in TMNT).
Brap is still being primarily used to signify machine gun fire, and is not in wide use as a multi-purpose greeting, and probably won't move very far in that direction unless the pronunciation changes to be less obviously reminiscent of a machine gun, such as by replacing the rolling R with a typical Anglo-American R sound. If that happens, and "brap" reaches the same status "booya(ka(sha))" has today, the only reason I'd have a problem with the TMNT using it as a catchphrase at that hypothetical point in the future would be the fact that I personally think it sounds like a burping goat.

[Mr.Turtle]

Originally Posted by Vincent

In my current rewatching of the 4Kids series, I have so far encountered two booya's. One from Casey, as mentioned earlier, and one from Mikey (in Notes from the Underground, Part 3).

great...comes frm 2 bone head...

[shihe]

I was certainl not expecting Cowabunga to be the catchphrase.

Booyaksha sound weird though, "gungoolah" level weird. But who knows, it might grow on me. Though I thought "Cowabunga" was a universal catchphrase back then, as where I've hear nobody say "booyaksha" before the show footage.


Oh well, trivial stuff.. As long as they have A catchphrase, I'm ok with it. (Though nothing beats TURTLE POWER).

[gobo]

Not to wanting to stifle this educational debate, but should we have this tangential conversation moved to its own thread? It's kinda derailing the topic. We've already had someone admit that they'll be avoiding this thread from now on. I'm sure a mod would help you out with suggested move.

EDIT: Maybe that was another thread I was thinking of where someone recently admitted they'll be avoiding it from now on.

[Vincent]

Originally Posted by Mr.Turtle

great...comes frm 2 bone head...

I have no idea what that means.

Originally Posted by shihe

Booyaksha sound weird though, "gungoolah" level weird.

I seem to remember seeing "Goongala" in the Mirage comics.
...Yup.

But yeah, it's a weird one. I personally find "Booyakasha" less weird, though. Probably because I've heard it before, and know it's a thing people say, whereas I'm fairly certain Goongala was invented specifically as a war cry of Casey Jones.

[ScratchTheHotSpot]

Yep, all those above points about words changing are very true. Some words I didn't know had changed so much, and haven't researched, but I'll take your word for it.

I do understand that booya is now being used in an exclamation of excitement, but it does make me feel slightly sad inside, as I feel it's still very applicable to the meaning it held in the 90s, and early 2000s, when it was very similar to how "brap" is being used as a type of "In your face" insult / phrase that relates to gun usage.

It just seems like phrases like this get passed around, and eventually reach a totally different "area" in culture. For example, a kids tv show, because people that use it, are ignorant to its true meaning in my opinion, and when it's debated by the producers for example, they say, "Oh, all the kids are saying it these days, it's got to be ok right?".

This attitude just worries, and almost annoys me. The amount of times I've heard words like "brap brap" on tv used by people who simply shouldn't be using it, and I've face-palmed, I've lost count. I just think that with the current technology we have with the internet, we have the power to fight this loss of meanings of words, like we never have before. Especially words that relate to subjects such as violence. I feel like we have the power to open eyes, and combat ignorance.

It's also interesting that alot of people have posted comments saying that they have never even heard the word "Booyakasha" before. Which to anyone that knows about Ali G, knows that this is undoubtebly HIS catchphrase, as much as yabba-dabba-doo is to Fred Flintstone. I guess the reason would be, is that there is such a difference in age gaps, between the target audience for the upcoming tmnt show, and the target audience for Ali G. Also the amount of time that Ali G has been out of the public eye, is a big contribution to this. I almost scared myself when I had to write, "Ali G was first shown 12 years ago". To some of the current fans of TMNT, this is a lifetime or more! pffffff... I feel old! lol

Gobo,
You were correct, the post about avoiding this thread is on this page, somewhere near the top I think... I don't think it should be moved to another thread necessarily, it seems relatively on topic. I would say I am upset by booyakasha, for the 4 pages of reasons above But to be honest, I think we've covered enough ground in order to bring this debate to somewhat of a close. I feel that anymore, we would surely be repeating ourselves.


On another note, this Mr. Turtle guy, just seems to be full of these one-liner comments that don't really contribute to much, and for you regulars, they must get pretty annoying! I've only been back here for this past week, and already there has been numerous comments I've seen that are just pointless. Is there not any kind of regulation against users posting things like this? Getting a high post-count seems to be high on this guy's agenda.

[Vincent]

Originally Posted by ScratchTheHotSpot

This attitude just worries, and almost annoys me. The amount of times I've heard words like "brap brap" on tv used by people who simply shouldn't be using it, and I've face-palmed, I've lost count. I just think that with the current technology we have with the internet, we have the power to fight this loss of meanings of words, like we never have before. Especially words that relate to subjects such as violence. I feel like we have the power to open eyes, and combat ignorance.

I think this is where we look at things differently. While I can see your point of view, I can't say I agree with it. Language naturally evolves, and it always has. Words will lose meaning and gain new meaning, spellings will change, as will pronunciations, and in the case of words relating to violence, I personally am of the opinion that it's a good thing when violent connotations disappear from a word. It means the non-violent use is stronger than the violent use. Peace conquers war, in a sense. Which means violence has lost. Words are symbols. Cultures change the significance of symbols all the time, and I'd rather see a violent symbol turn non-violent than the other way around (the swastika comes to mind, as an example of a non-violent symbol that was given a violent meaning by the Nazis).

How about some punch?


Of course, the TMNT are violent, so it's kind of almost a lateral move in this case, if the gunshot theory is correct

[Mr.Turtle]

Originally Posted by Vincent

I have no idea what that means.


I seem to remember seeing "Goongala" in the Mirage comics.
...Yup.

But yeah, it's a weird one. I personally find "Booyakasha" less weird, though. Probably because I've heard it before, and know it's a thing people say, whereas I'm fairly certain Goongala was invented specifically as a war cry of Casey Jones.

its in 2k3 too.

[ScratchTheHotSpot]

I do see your point about good over evil I guess. But the transition from one to the other, can be a painful experience.

I suppose I just feel the same way about ignorance to words, as tmnt fans do about the potential ignorance that would occur with Michael Bay's "Alien" Ninja Turtles

lol sorry, I know that's a sensitive subject, but I just felt I had to go there to demonstrate my feelings, and relate it to something that's a passionate topic around here.

(No antagonism intended)


When the new show finally hits, I guess we will see how much the apparent catch phrase really does feature.

[Kris]

I will admit that I was actually taken aback when I first heard Michelangelo say booyakasha instead of cowabunga, but by no means was I upset by it. It definitely grew on me after a while, but I still like cowabunga too.

[CyberCubed]

Why would you bump this up from 2012? This is from 3 years ago.

[Prowler]

It was indeed weird the first time I've heard him say "Booyaksha!". Totally did not except that and can't say I've liked it much either. My reaction was "WTF why is this show making an Ali G reference?"

I mean, I get it that "Cowabunga!" is a very outdated term, but "Booyakasha!" isn't exactly very up to date either. Ali G hasn't been relevant in quite a while. Nor has Borat or any Sacha Baron Cohen character. I mean, to be honest, I gotta admit that I'm not sure that he was the first one coining the term, but I can't think of anyone else using the term before him.

Anyway, was the user in this thread serious about "Booyakasha!" meaning "death to the white man" in Jamaican Patois? I have never heard of anything like that. And a quick google search shows nothing that states that the word originally had a racist connotation against white people.