Official Episode Discussion S2 #12 "Of Rats and Men"

[TurFlytle]

Originally Posted by Gabriel GP

Glad that someone understands me. And didn't bother me mikey putting her in the freezer, after all, she is made of ice cream *giggles*, just hoping to see more of her and mikey together.

I agree with you two. People have different opinions on what's dark and what's not dark.

[kolaida]

Dark isn't that subjective. Just because a person isn't disturbed by something dark doesn't mean it isn't dark. Any time a human sacrifices an animal, that is dark and twisted regardless if they are Christian, Satanist, Muslim, whatever religion they choose to believe. The act itself is dark and usually done by poorly educated people. There's a few posts circling the internet of certain animal abuse and it's pretty disturbing. Just because a person can handle viewing it doesn't mean it isn't dark.

If the stuff in the Turtles doesn't give you nightmares, that's great- especially once you pass a certain age. I believe the point was for the show's target age, some children might get nightmares from a few scenes. Not all, but some. And most parents don't want their child to have nightmares or be woken up about them.

[MikeandRaph87]

It flowed like an episode of the '87 cartoon plot wise which was cool. I just cannot get behind the Phantom of The Opera look.Splinter gets screen time for characterization and action in two consecutive episodes! Rat King can do something to Splinter even Shredder could not do and hope to see continue.

[MCLeo28]

Originally Posted by TurFlytle

I agree with you two. People have different opinions on what's dark and what's not dark.

If you're claiming that death and gore is your only perception of dark, then it simply means only creepy things disturb you which doesn't entirely mean that's the only thing you perceive as dark.

For example, Majora's Mask is a game commonly perceived as dark and one notable scene that everybody mentions was the Deku Butler's son imprisoned in a hollow shell with no way to save him.

Now, we have Master Splinter, who also lost a child of his own and lost everything he's ever had for around 15 years before knowing his greatest enemy stole his daughter and trained to be a lethal weapon and one who lacks compassion and has even been trained to target his own father.

Now explain to us, how is this not dark?

[Gabriel GP]

Originally Posted by MCLeo28

If you're claiming that death and gore is your only perception of dark, then it simply means only creepy things disturb you which doesn't entirely mean that's the only thing you perceive as dark.

For example, Majora's Mask is a game commonly perceived as dark and one notable scene that everybody mentions was the Deku Butler's son imprisoned in a hollow shell with no way to save him.

Now, we have Master Splinter, who also lost a child of his own and lost everything he's ever had for around 15 years before knowing his greatest enemy stole his daughter and trained to be a lethal weapon and one who lacks compassion and has even been trained to target his own father.

Now explain to us, how is this not dark?

Because they don't show emotions properly in the show. Just a example was in the last episode of season 1. When they thought that Leo has died, was so unemotional that even if my fish died would be sadder than this. The same thing fits on Splinter and Karai relation. It seems that he dosen't even care that much about her. It's like " When my daughter see the truth and come to me, will be the best day of my life... but if she didn't it okay as well."

Thats why I can't see this show as something dark. It has a great humour and good actions scenes, but you can have the darkest plot of the universe, but when you see that you gets more sad by kicking your cat accidentaly than the turtles by loosing a brother... it feels empty. Just make a test. Try to watch a drama movie with bad actors. You will not think that this movie is dark or even sad. You will think, on the best chance, that is boring.

So if you said to me that the nick TMNT is a great show, with great humour, and good action. I'll agree with you 100%. But about being dark... not that much. And I can guarantee that if was dark like everybody is saying. Would have 999999 parents complaining about it.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by Gabriel GP

Try to watch a drama movie with bad actors. You will not think that this movie is dark or even sad. You will think, on the best chance, that is boring.

God, you are dense.

Nobody is talking about the atmosphere of the show, but rather the content. The content is dark at times.

[Technogeek29]

As much a fan I am of the 2k3 if you try to tell me that series was dark then your stretching it a bit. Only certain episodes were dark of that version and the entirty of season 4 beyound that not so much. The nick series is much the same with the episodes having jokes to distract you from how dark some of the subject matter is.

Like the krang finding amusement in giving April a libatomy but its played for laughs
or Timonthy's whole body being melted down and reconstructed into a blob. When the poor guy just didn't want to be a loser anymore but now is not only ignored but feared as well.

[BubblyShell22]

Originally Posted by Gabriel GP

Because they don't show emotions properly in the show. Just a example was in the last episode of season 1. When they thought that Leo has died, was so unemotional that even if my fish died would be sadder than this. The same thing fits on Splinter and Karai relation. It seems that he dosen't even care that much about her. It's like " When my daughter see the truth and come to me, will be the best day of my life... but if she didn't it okay as well."

Thats why I can't see this show as something dark. It has a great humour and good actions scenes, but you can have the darkest plot of the universe, but when you see that you gets more sad by kicking your cat accidentaly than the turtles by loosing a brother... it feels empty. Just make a test. Try to watch a drama movie with bad actors. You will not think that this movie is dark or even sad. You will think, on the best chance, that is boring.

So if you said to me that the nick TMNT is a great show, with great humour, and good action. I'll agree with you 100%. But about being dark... not that much. And I can guarantee that if was dark like everybody is saying. Would have 999999 parents complaining about it.

Were we watching the same episode, Gabe? Because I could have sworn the Turtles did show emotion when the ship went down. Sure it was pretty short, but the sadness was there. You saw it in Raph's expression and the way he was talking. He was upset about how he'd treated Leo in the past and regretted it. Yes, Leo lived, but the emotion was there.

And as for Splinter, I think it was more that he was shocked by the revelation. Karai wanted to fight him, but he didn't want to fight his own daughter so that's why he ran away. Splinter DOES care about his daughter, but he can't force her to come to him when she doesn't believe the truth, so he can't really do anything about that. He wants her back and misses her terribly, but for now, this is the way it has to be. I'm hoping that after the next ep (which I haven't seen yet) that Karai will wake up and realize who she belongs with or that she'll at least question where she belongs.

And it is dark in some aspects like that failed experiment, Tim's mutation, ICK mutation, and other things. This show isn't afraid to "go there" in terms of darkness, and I like that.

[sdp]

They're so irresponsible with mutagen the turtles here. I really liked the Ratking here, he has grown on me and is definitely a valid interpretation. Good episode.

[Gabriel GP]

Originally Posted by sdp

They're so irresponsible with mutagen the turtles here. I really liked the Ratking here, he has grown on me and is definitely a valid interpretation. Good episode.

Indeed. If it was poison instead of mutagen, half of NY would be dead by now.

[MCLeo28]

Originally Posted by Gabriel GP

Because they don't show emotions properly in the show. Just a example was in the last episode of season 1. When they thought that Leo has died, was so unemotional that even if my fish died would be sadder than this. The same thing fits on Splinter and Karai relation. It seems that he dosen't even care that much about her. It's like " When my daughter see the truth and come to me, will be the best day of my life... but if she didn't it okay as well."

But that's not a good example at all. Splinter can't just force his own daughter to come with him if she doesn't believe the truth either. Did you not see how emotionally affected Splinter was when he found out it was Karai who was his daughter? He couldn't even bare fighting her or even looking at her while Shredder was mocking him. We even see him commenting about Karai, who he says is just like her mother, who is also one of Splinter's closest companion.

Thats why I can't see this show as something dark. It has a great humour and good actions scenes, but you can have the darkest plot of the universe, but when you see that you gets more sad by kicking your cat accidentaly than the turtles by loosing a brother... it feels empty. Just make a test. Try to watch a drama movie with bad actors. You will not think that this movie is dark or even sad. You will think, on the best chance, that is boring.

Like stated before, the content is dark and even then, that's a terrible example as most of the events involving Karai or Splinter w/ the Rat King is taken in a serious tone and should be unless you're implying that Splinter being pitted against his daughter from his own friend isn't dark, because last time I checked, that is seriously twisted.

So if you said to me that the nick TMNT is a great show, with great humour, and good action. I'll agree with you 100%. But about being dark... not that much. And I can guarantee that if was dark like everybody is saying. Would have 999999 parents complaining about it.

Good thing that hasn't happened yet even after seeing something seriously twisted such as seeing Rat King's failed experiment.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by Donatello19

Ok, we get it, you don't like them...how many times you gotta say it?

I just finished watching it, really good episode. I love Irma more and more everytime I see her...and I think I know why...she's like a female version of Don Splinter was really awesome in this episode, I loved his struggle with the RK and how he defeated him, and seeing him go evil is always cool and interesting. Mikey and ICK are adorable :theart: ICK is pretty cool, I like that Mike used him as the secret weapon. April and Casey were cool, too. I hope Irma appears more and eventually meets the turtles. I could keep rambling but all in all, I really liked it. Favorite line: "I need some ice for my head...and maybe a cheese-sicle"

Oh dear, is it possible we are going to go from a strange love triangle to a really freaky love quad (didn't Irma have a thing for Donnie in the old toon?)

[BubblyShell22]

Irma had a thing for just about anybody in the old toon. She was the type who was so guy crazy, she didn't care who she was attracted to. I think she made a comment about Splinter once, too. I don't know if Irma will be attracted to Don, and I really don't want a love square thing anyway. We'll just have to see how they play out her meeting the Turtles. But from what we've seen, she doesn't seem to be boy-crazy in this one.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by BubblyShell22

Irma had a thing for just about anybody in the old toon. She was the type who was so guy crazy, she didn't care who she was attracted to. I think she made a comment about Splinter once, too. I don't know if Irma will be attracted to Don, and I really don't want a love square thing anyway. We'll just have to see how they play out her meeting the Turtles. But from what we've seen, she doesn't seem to be boy-crazy in this one.

Well, I'm just going with the "foreshadowing" effect, she's both smart, does look out for April, and seems to like the color purple. And unfortunately, while you may not like all of the hormones being flung around in this show, what you want kind of does not matter. Last night, my cousin, who is a huge Apritello fangirl, showed me how she favored 700 and something Apritello MV on youtube, and the majority of them had viewerships in the 20 to 30 thousands (one was actually just shy of a million) This side plot is not going away any time soon, it creates way too much traffic for the show for the creators to ignore.

[blindturtle02]

I'm also wondering if Irma is going to develop a thing for Don. Who knows? Watched this one again today and noticed the horrific nails on a chalkboard squeaking of the mutant rats coinciding with their roars. Now that was freaky. The guys in sound effects always do terrific work.

Didn't one of RK's pets take the plunge before he fell? Maybe that rat broke his fall. Hows about a big squishy mess of mutant rat guts for a cushion, Falco? hehe Nah, my money's on him using his ol royal rathook further on down toward the bottom. He probably repeled the rest of the way. Kidding, but I bet he's coming back. Maybe next time someone can steal a piece of cheese or some mutagen so he can scream,"I needed that," in homage to his Ratchet in Transformers Prime. Combs is just too awesome of an actor to not bring back. Rat King, I'd send ya a get well soon card if I knew where you landed, buddy. Maybe even a cheesecake.

[BubblyShell22]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

Well, I'm just going with the "foreshadowing" effect, she's both smart, does look out for April, and seems to like the color purple. And unfortunately, while you may not like all of the hormones being flung around in this show, what you want kind of does not matter. Last night, my cousin, who is a huge Apritello fangirl, showed me how she favored 700 and something Apritello MV on youtube, and the majority of them had viewerships in the 20 to 30 thousands (one was actually just shy of a million) This side plot is not going away any time soon, it creates way too much traffic for the show for the creators to ignore.

I'm not against the idea of Apriltello, but the love triangle thing is enough for now. I don't want Don competing for two girls' hearts. But if Irma did show interest in Don, I think he'd be flattered but his heart would always belong to April.

And, BT, I hear you there. RK is so coming back. We haven't seen the last of him.

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

Well, I'm just going with the "foreshadowing" effect, she's both smart, does look out for April, and seems to like the color purple. And unfortunately, while you may not like all of the hormones being flung around in this show, what you want kind of does not matter. Last night, my cousin, who is a huge Apritello fangirl, showed me how she favored 700 and something Apritello MV on youtube, and the majority of them had viewerships in the 20 to 30 thousands (one was actually just shy of a million) This side plot is not going away any time soon, it creates way too much traffic for the show for the creators to ignore.

believe me you do NOT want this show to have too much romance.

just check out Legend of Korra, and all the wasted potential BECAUSE of love squares.

[blindturtle02]

Bubbly, wonder how long the Kraang have been transporting Kraathatragon over here. Maybe he got swallowed by one of them. I can see one of them barfing him up eventually. It'd be interesting if he was even more disfigured. Or he might just come back with squirelanoids in toe. I hope his next appearance involves him teaming up with another villain. Love seeing the baddies interacting.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by BabyTurtles

believe me you do NOT want this show to have too much romance.

just check out Legend of Korra, and all the wasted potential BECAUSE of love squares.

It doesn't bother me much either way.

What I do want, is more episodes that feature Raphael's power. I haven't seen too much of it yet. If Rocksteady and Bebop do show up like it's been rumored, now those are some characters I'd like to see him bodyslam once in a while.

[blindturtle02]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

It doesn't bother me much either way.

What I do want, is more episodes that feature Raphael's power. I haven't seen too much of it yet. If Rocksteady and Bebop do show up like it's been rumored, now those are some characters I'd like to see him bodyslam once in a while.

Oo yeah I'd like to see him take those two down as well. He does love getting his hands dirty and you're right about there needing to be more of that.