Raphael - turtle of a thousand faces - Page 3

Time Mistress · 05-20-2007, 08:28 PM

Cool idea, Warhorse. Maybe we could see the TMNT battle the Karai & the Foot, but in Japan where her HQ is.

The Raph discussion seems to be going well, who wants to start that one for Donatello next?

*Warhorse* · 05-20-2007, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Time Mistress

Cool idea, Warhorse. Maybe we could see the TMNT battle the Karai & the Foot, but in Japan where her HQ is.

The Raph discussion seems to be going well, who wants to start that one for Donatello next?

You can. I find Donatello to be the most under-appreciated Turtle. I also find him the one Turtle we really dont know much about. Or at least I dont know much about.

*Scandia* · 05-21-2007, 04:01 AM

I will! I woke up early- must have been for a reason

jenna · 05-21-2007, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Time Mistress

The following was said to sum up Logan, but I think it applies just as well to the contradictions of Raphael on most counts:

"Super hero and outlaw. Moral philosopher and psychotic. Loner and family man. A protector of society who feels ill at ease with it. A breaker of rules who binds himself to a code of honor. (World famous adventurer who hides behind a false identity.) Savage killer of criminals and kind friend to children. Beast and man. In one person."

Oh wow! You are absolutely right - that could have been written about Raph! It's perfect. And you're right - Raph is a condradiction in himself really - like that line in Taxi Driver: Partly truth, partly fiction, a walking contradiction."

~~ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael~~ · 05-21-2007, 08:29 PM

I guess I should post something serious about my favorite character ever.

I love Raph's strong sense of justice. He knows he can never truly fit in with the the public, but at the same time, he wants to protect them. I felt the same way as Raph at times, i hear about some really wrong injustices going on in the world, and I get pissed cause I can't do anything about ti. I've felt his pain.

I love the fact that Kevin and Peter have managed to turn Raph into more than just some Wolverine clone.

*Sewer Bull* · 05-22-2007, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

What I don't get is, why is it that in every one of Raph's future incartnations, he's missing an eye?

Because it makes him so bad-ass.

*Buslady* · 05-22-2007, 08:16 AM

makes him look badass maybe but i never cared for the missing eye thing...

he keeps his eyes in my ficcies...

*Warhorse* · 05-22-2007, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buslady

makes him look badass maybe but i never cared for the missing eye thing.

Same here. Just another reason why I avoid the comics like the plague. I simply don'tlike what I hear, in how the stories evolve in later volumes, so I pretend they dont exist.

*Buslady* · 05-22-2007, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warhorse

Same here. Just another reason why I avoid the comics like the plague. I simply don'tlike what I hear, in how the stories evolve in later volumes, so I pretend they dont exist.

so far so good in the movies...he still can see with a pair of eyeballs.

*Rooish* · 05-22-2007, 07:35 PM

I was wondering. Why is Raph such a jerk and a bully at times? And do you think everything he does is forgiveable? Sometimes it annoys me that he takes out his frustration on everyone else. I think he may be the most flawed Turtle. But he is also the most well-developed, and a lot of people seem to identify with him.

*Scandia* · 05-22-2007, 07:39 PM

By nature, he has a short fuse.

Plus he is envious of his older brother and the positive attention he gets.

However, I don't think even Donatello escapes Raph's wrath.

Splinter taught Raphael better than that. But Raph seems just way too angry at times- even though I doubt that he is truly evil. Without Splinter, Raphael would be completely and totally lost.

*Buslady* · 05-22-2007, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rooish

I was wondering. Why is Raph such a jerk and a bully at times? And do you think everything he does is forgiveable? Sometimes it annoys me that he takes out his frustration on everyone else. I think he may be the most flawed Turtle. But he is also the most well-developed, and a lot of people seem to identify with him.

his bullying and attitude is part of his defensive mechanism, he keeps a distance from others this way. I dont think really means to bully so bad that he causes physical harm to the target; just seriously annoy, emotionally hurt, etc. His bullying is often a sign of low esteem so he has to pick on others to make himself feel better. He's sad. Really sad.

I do wonder if love can conquer and heal his soul?

jenna · 05-23-2007, 01:13 AM

I have a Raph question!

I've been entertaining myself lately by reading fan fics and have read a number by different authors (Buslady, yours was one) which all describe Raph as having a fear of needles. Where does that originate? Was it in the comics?

SassyGal · 05-23-2007, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scandia

By nature, he has a short fuse.

Plus he is envious of his older brother and the positive attention he gets.

However, I don't think even Donatello escapes Raph's wrath.

Splinter taught Raphael better than that. But Raph seems just way too angry at times- even though I doubt that he is truly evil. Without Splinter, Raphael would be completely and totally lost.

It's like you had a camera into my teen years, Scandia

I think lots of people identify with Raph in all his incarnations because so many people find themselves in his situation. I was always envious of my older sister & all the positive attention she got. I was all angsty and angry as a teen, very emo before the term existed (I am so old

) & I took a lot of it out my older sister & younger one, even though my parents taught me better than that and always told me I could go to them and work on channeling my anger, but I had to do it the hard way, by myself. I don't think anyone escaped my wrath between the ages of 14 & 17 in my house, but without them, especially my mom, I would have been completely lost despite the fact I just wanted them to leave me alone.
Wow. That stirred up some feelings...like maybe I should apologize to my family (again

) for being such a b***h, then write a poem about it

*Scandia* · 05-23-2007, 03:57 AM

I was the eldest in my house. However, I am rebellious in some of the most bizarre ways. And I get emo and angsty at times to this day- partially due to my being envious and jealous of what other people have and I don't.

Donatello is also a middle child, yet he does not seem to be envious of Leonardo. And from what I gathered in the NT, it seems like all 4 Turtles could have tried to become the leader- that Splinter did not just give Leo and Raph the chance.

aabxx · 05-23-2007, 05:09 AM

Raphael is so desperate to lead that he in volume 3 actually started leading the foot. Which came at the expense of his relationship with his brothers and Splinter,

Don and Mike couldn't work with Raph as the leader. He doesn't have the "big brother" dynamic going with them like Leo does and while they admire his fighting skills, he's no Leo when it comes to ninjitsu and the art of war. Everything leads to Leo being the leader, really. Raphael never stood a chance if you ask me.

But it's a great responsibility. And I think Don and Mike both find a lot of comfort in Leo's leadership. Leo's their edge, really... he instills in them a lot of confidence as it's no coincidence that he's lead them out alive against the odds time and time again. Leo's a fantastic leader and Don and Mike recognize and appreciate this. And they easily submit to him.

Raphael knows all too well that Leo's a brilliant leader too but he doesn't look up to him in the same way as his brothers because he has difficulties submitting to anyone, because he fought for and lost out in the right to lead early on and because he's way too competitive towards him (which his other brothers are not). And he probably also objects to Leo's leadership because he feels his input isn't appreciated enough by Leo and the rest of the group, who view him as a bit of a hothead who doesn't think through his decisions often enough. And knowing he's not the leader, he lets his ego cloud his judgement and sometimes goes so far as to do the opposite of what Leo says just to oppose him, or because he wants to impress the group.

Contrast that to Don, who makes an excellent number two. Leo listens to Don because he knows Don is a genius, and this makes Don feel appreciated because being the genius, he couldn't follow a leader who wouldn't be willing to listen to his rational input. And then we have Mikey who plays out the "little brother" role. Ninja stuff is pretty serious stuff and Mikey would probably rather not think too much about it and just simply follow orders. To quote Splinter talking to Mikey: "The way of the warrior has found acceptance and lives in your brothers but for you it is not so easy." This is probably why Mikey doesn't get too involved with the group's battle tactics... he's not ruthless enough and this makes him uncertain and indecicive, which you cannot be when you're planning a strategy. This is also evident in the new movie when Leo's captured, and you see Raphael, Don and Splinter working together to organize the rescue while Mike's all "so what do we do now?".

jenna · 05-24-2007, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenna

I have a Raph question!

I've been entertaining myself lately by reading fan fics and have read a number by different authors (Buslady, yours was one) which all describe Raph as having a fear of needles. Where does that originate? Was it in the comics?

Hey guys - can anyone shed some light on this? (sorry, I know I'm impatient...)

*Warhorse* · 05-24-2007, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenna

Hey guys - can anyone shed some light on this? (sorry, I know I'm impatient...)

Hey, he hates bugs too. Remember!

*Buslady* · 05-24-2007, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenna

I have a Raph question!

I've been entertaining myself lately by reading fan fics and have read a number by different authors (Buslady, yours was one) which all describe Raph as having a fear of needles. Where does that originate? Was it in the comics?

This element IS canon. I can't spout out the issue, story or whatever but it is canon.

jenna · 05-25-2007, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warhorse

Hey, he hates bugs too. Remember!

I know, bless! I can relate - I'm scared of bugs too. I love the 2k3 episode April's Artifact where he is terrified off insects. It's so funny, because he is portrayed as being so tough in 2k3!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buslady

This element IS canon. I can't spout out the issue, story or whatever but it is canon.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. If anyone knows where the fear originated I'd like to know.

05-20-2007, 08:28 PM	#41
Time Mistress Stone Warrior Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Pennshellvania, or the 79th level of Null-Time Posts: 710	Cool idea, Warhorse. Maybe we could see the TMNT battle the Karai & the Foot, but in Japan where her HQ is. The Raph discussion seems to be going well, who wants to start that one for Donatello next? __________________ AKA the Edwardian Adventuress and Fairlady_Z "You just made your last mistake, Bugeyes -- 'cuz nobody beats up my best buddy and gets away with it -- Nobody! Got that?!" Raphael about Michaelangelo, TMNT Volume 1

05-22-2007, 08:16 AM	#47
Buslady WingsOfDarkness! Perkele! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In 7803... Posts: 4,366	makes him look badass maybe but i never cared for the missing eye thing... he keeps his eyes in my ficcies... __________________

05-22-2007, 07:35 PM	#50
Rooish Devil's Advocate Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 2,130	I was wondering. Why is Raph such a jerk and a bully at times? And do you think everything he does is forgiveable? Sometimes it annoys me that he takes out his frustration on everyone else. I think he may be the most flawed Turtle. But he is also the most well-developed, and a lot of people seem to identify with him. __________________ Thanks evan2000 for the sig!

05-23-2007, 05:09 AM	#56
aabxx Thug Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 51	Raphael is so desperate to lead that he in volume 3 actually started leading the foot. Which came at the expense of his relationship with his brothers and Splinter, Don and Mike couldn't work with Raph as the leader. He doesn't have the "big brother" dynamic going with them like Leo does and while they admire his fighting skills, he's no Leo when it comes to ninjitsu and the art of war. Everything leads to Leo being the leader, really. Raphael never stood a chance if you ask me. But it's a great responsibility. And I think Don and Mike both find a lot of comfort in Leo's leadership. Leo's their edge, really... he instills in them a lot of confidence as it's no coincidence that he's lead them out alive against the odds time and time again. Leo's a fantastic leader and Don and Mike recognize and appreciate this. And they easily submit to him. Raphael knows all too well that Leo's a brilliant leader too but he doesn't look up to him in the same way as his brothers because he has difficulties submitting to anyone, because he fought for and lost out in the right to lead early on and because he's way too competitive towards him (which his other brothers are not). And he probably also objects to Leo's leadership because he feels his input isn't appreciated enough by Leo and the rest of the group, who view him as a bit of a hothead who doesn't think through his decisions often enough. And knowing he's not the leader, he lets his ego cloud his judgement and sometimes goes so far as to do the opposite of what Leo says just to oppose him, or because he wants to impress the group. Contrast that to Don, who makes an excellent number two. Leo listens to Don because he knows Don is a genius, and this makes Don feel appreciated because being the genius, he couldn't follow a leader who wouldn't be willing to listen to his rational input. And then we have Mikey who plays out the "little brother" role. Ninja stuff is pretty serious stuff and Mikey would probably rather not think too much about it and just simply follow orders. To quote Splinter talking to Mikey: "The way of the warrior has found acceptance and lives in your brothers but for you it is not so easy." This is probably why Mikey doesn't get too involved with the group's battle tactics... he's not ruthless enough and this makes him uncertain and indecicive, which you cannot be when you're planning a strategy. This is also evident in the new movie when Leo's captured, and you see Raphael, Don and Splinter working together to organize the rescue while Mike's all "so what do we do now?". Last edited by aabxx; 05-23-2007 at 05:26 AM.

05-21-2007, 04:01 AM	#43
Scandia Mad Scientist Join Date: May 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 2,265	I will! I woke up early- must have been for a reason

05-21-2007, 08:29 PM	#45
~~ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael~~ Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Seventh Layer of Hell Posts: 1,929	I guess I should post something serious about my favorite character ever. I love Raph's strong sense of justice. He knows he can never truly fit in with the the public, but at the same time, he wants to protect them. I felt the same way as Raph at times, i hear about some really wrong injustices going on in the world, and I get pissed cause I can't do anything about ti. I've felt his pain. I love the fact that Kevin and Peter have managed to turn Raph into more than just some Wolverine clone.

05-22-2007, 07:39 PM	#51
Scandia Mad Scientist Join Date: May 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 2,265	By nature, he has a short fuse. Plus he is envious of his older brother and the positive attention he gets. However, I don't think even Donatello escapes Raph's wrath. Splinter taught Raphael better than that. But Raph seems just way too angry at times- even though I doubt that he is truly evil. Without Splinter, Raphael would be completely and totally lost.

05-23-2007, 01:13 AM	#53
jenna Mad Scientist Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 1,190	I have a Raph question! I've been entertaining myself lately by reading fan fics and have read a number by different authors (Buslady, yours was one) which all describe Raph as having a fear of needles. Where does that originate? Was it in the comics?

05-23-2007, 03:57 AM	#55
Scandia Mad Scientist Join Date: May 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 2,265	I was the eldest in my house. However, I am rebellious in some of the most bizarre ways. And I get emo and angsty at times to this day- partially due to my being envious and jealous of what other people have and I don't. Donatello is also a middle child, yet he does not seem to be envious of Leonardo. And from what I gathered in the NT, it seems like all 4 Turtles could have tried to become the leader- that Splinter did not just give Leo and Raph the chance.