TMNT at the box office

[The Shelf]

No, I heard 30-34 million too. EDIT: This was aimed at Buslady ^

I really wish people would quit complaining about what a failure the new movie was. Just look at all the mediocre movies that come out that barely make 10-20 million domestically. TMNT did very well when you consider its present popularity level.

[Roseangelo]

Why the hell do we need a separate topic for this when I seem to recall two existing topics that had this discussion? Sheesh.

[Rooish]

TMNT did well; it's just that our expectations were too high. Anyone who read what Kevin Munroe said about getting a sequel--that the film needed to gross $100 million domestic--is disappointed that it didn't happen. But the film still made a good profit.

And Grindhouse was a flop? I didn't know that. That movie was fun from start to finish. I didn't know it did so poorly.

Edit: And good point, Roseangelo. This thread is completely pointless in light of the other ones ... say, "TMNT at the box office."

[iris]

You people have a very strange definition of failure. I give your definition of failure an F.

Why the hell do we need a separate topic for this when I seem to recall two existing topics that had this discussion? Sheesh.

Ditto.

[Andrew NDB]

I like to consider it a noble failure, but it is a failure, if only in the sense that it won't be the kickoff of a new movie franchise as it was intended to be.

With this movie, maybe that's for the best.

[Cascadia]

TMNT is not as popular as it was in the late 1980s and early 1990s. As mentioned before, the movie was not flop nor was it blockbuster. The video game sold/rented out very nicely. At times, it was hard to find a copy of it to rent. The toys were flying off the shelves in some places of the world.

What was interesting...I think that I mentioned this before. My local Blockbuster put the previous TMNT movies + Volumes 1-3 of the original series in a special with all of the other spring/summer movies. They were usually rented out on a weekly basis.

[BigApple3AM]

To be honest, I wouldn't blame it on the turtles popularity at all. They're obviously not 80's level popular, but they're still close. Everyone besides maybe people over 50 know who the turtles are.

I blame a couple of things. It came out in March, who goes to the movies in March? I guess they got the spring break crowd, but there wasn't really much going for them with that time slot, although it's probably better than a summer box office because they'd be crushed. They still got to be the #1 movie of the week in America, which I think is pretty cool.

Second, the film was animation, cg to be exact, and not a family comedy. This is probably the first movie to market a cg movie as action/adventure to a mass release.

Lastly, the movie was full of plot holes, a very weird storyline to begin with, and was a vast departure from what people know of the turtles. People went in expecting either the old films, which were realistic in look and plot, or the old cartoon, which was goofy as hell. What they got was sort of a blend of the seriousness of the old movies mixed with goofy sci-fi villains and cartoony/realistic hybrid look.

Plus the movie was missing shredder, and we all know every single casual fan interested in this movie at one point said "where's shredder?"

The combination of all these things is what I think brought it down. It was a failure monetarily, I think a lot of you don't want to see it that way because you liked the film itself. I'm sure lots of well done films bomb at the box office. Heck citizen kane did and that's considered the best film of all time. Don't let this get in the way of your enjoyment of the movie.

Is there going to be a sequel? I honestly think so. With turtles it's not all about the box office receipts, look at any aisle in wal-mart, there's bound to be some turtles marketing crap. They probably made tons of cash on the action figures and crap alone. When the dvd comes out I'm sure it'll be a hit, especially with all the supposed bonus footage.

It could be a direct to dvd but if they do it that way I expect the animation to take a huge hit in quality. If the film was a success they might've started something on tv, but as it stands I don't think any network is going to spend the money on something that didn't do so hot at the theaters.

Almost forgot - the advertising was really bad as well. I mean it got better as the movie got closer, but I only saw the spots twice, I almost had to go "Holy crap a tmnt commercial" when I would have much preferred it be like every other blasted commercial in existance where I have to go "This one again?"
The McDonalds thing helped too, but it came out the week of the film and was still around when the film was long gone in my area. Maybe they should have started the promotion a week or two in advance? You can tell they didn't want to spend too much on advertising.

[Dragon Turtle]

I never expected TMNT to break 100 million, it was never given the
chance, due to WB both under and wrongly promoting this movie.


As for popularity, they may not be as popular as they were back in the 80's
and 90's, but I still say they're more popular then Ghost Rider.

[Andrew NDB]

I think the argument of, "Oh, the TMNT aren't as popular as they were back in the day, that's why the movie didn't do that great" is just a cop-out. If they'd done a proper TMNT comic book movie and it fell flat on its ass, this mentality might have a case -- as it stands, we have yet to see such a movie so can only speculate.

I'd like to believe that if they'd done a great TMNT movie the word would spread and perform respectably, regardless of how "popular" TMNT at large happens to be at any given moment.

[jenna]

At the end of the day, I liked the film, I went in excited and came out with a smile on my face and to me that's all that matters. As much as I would love a sequel, I consider us lucky to have got another film in the first place, so I'm still saying Yay! :D

Turtles isn't for everyone, no-one can deny it. But it is for me and to me it was a success because it made me happy.

[Cascadia]

Turtles isn't for everyone, no-one can deny it. But it is for me and to me it was a success because it made me happy.

It made me happy too to get a TMNT movie. For awhile, I thought that it would never happen.

[jenna]

It made me happy too to get a TMNT movie. For awhile, I thought that it would never happen.

Yay.... so lots of happy people.... can't be too bad, can it?:D

[Cascadia]

several years ago, there was talk about a new TMNT movie. It was placed on the table for discussion but it was placed back on the shelf. This movie is a true reality. I am happy to see it happen.

[Dragon Turtle]

I think the argument of, "Oh, the TMNT aren't as popular as they were back in the day, that's why the movie didn't do that great" is just a cop-out. If they'd done a proper TMNT comic book movie and it fell flat on its ass, this mentality might have a case -- as it stands, we have yet to see such a movie so can only speculate.

I'd like to believe that if they'd done a great TMNT movie the word would spread and perform respectably, regardless of how "popular" TMNT at large happens to be at any given moment.



I get the feeling that if the movie was closer to the comic, it might have
done worse, the biggest detractors of the movie seem to be fans of the
80's cartoon(no Bebop, no Rocksteady, no Krang, to serious, etc.).
While fans of the comic seem to be the biggest proponents
of the movie(if for no other reason that it wasn't as kid friendly as
the old cartoon series).

[jenna]

You can't please everyone. At least they tried to cater to both audiences. May not have worked as brilliantly as it could have, but at least the essence was there and the characters were well executed.

[CJStyles]

Why dont we just let the people who want to bitch, bitch. It's that simple. You're going to get nowhere arguing.

[Risawn]

I never expected this movie to hit blockbuster status. I was pleasently surprised to find it have a number 1 weekend. That said, I don't see it as a failure either. I don't know what the marketing budget was, but the movie turned a profit and face it, being marketed at kids, the showtimes became more focused to that age range so that last few weeks it was in theaters it was only available as a matinee. Its a weird genre, I didn't see a lot of adults coming to the viewings without kids in tow.

This movie will fare better on DVD. Also, being computer animated, it will cost less to make a sequal then the first one, so I'm still going to keep my fingers crossed for even a modest straight to DVD sequel.

Truthfully, in my opinion, the Winters story line was weak and they could have done better, but the dynamics between the brothers, particularly Leo and Raph of course, is what made this movie successful for me. If they could have had a stronger plotline, I think it would have probably done better.

And furthermore, as people have mentioned already, when the Turtles initially came out, it was considered new and fresh, and the cartoon was lighthearted and drew in the viewers. Now its something from the past and has been done before. True, there appears to be a lot of old cartoons making a comeback, but some make it and some don't.

It's cool that they have 2k3. I didn't even expect that a few years ago.

[Andrew NDB]

I get the feeling that if the movie was closer to the comic, it might have
done worse, the biggest detractors of the movie seem to be fans of the
80's cartoon(no Bebop, no Rocksteady, no Krang, to serious, etc.).
While fans of the comic seem to be the biggest proponents
of the movie(if for no other reason that it wasn't as kid friendly as
the old cartoon series).

I don't mean any offense, but those are just blanket statements. I know plenty of Mirage fans that are less-than-impressed with the new movie.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

C'mon people, the movie wasn't a success, but it wasn't a bomb either.

It made it's invesetment back, and let's be honest, no one expected this movie to hit 100 million, we were all skeptical when we first heard that's how much WB wanted. But I seriously doubt even they were expecting this movie to hit 100 million. The promotion here was mediocre at best, and they only gave them 34 mil to work with. Plus, they had to know the PG rating would hurt the films chances.

Also, there was little hype. Hardly anyone expected anything from this movie. I remeber seeing a thread on the Adult Swim message boards(which has a really large community), that said "Most Anticipated Movie of 07", and including me, only 2 people listed TMNT. Honestly, how could it bomb if no one expected this movie to do ****?

[Revan]

several years ago, there was talk about a new TMNT movie. It was placed on the table for discussion but it was placed back on the shelf. This movie is a true reality. I am happy to see it happen.

Amen. I would have never guessed we would have had another turtle movie after III. I'm just glad we got TMNT 4. I hope for another movie but we are lucky we got this one.

[Andrew NDB]

several years ago, there was talk about a new TMNT movie. It was placed on the table for discussion but it was placed back on the shelf. This movie is a true reality. I am happy to see it happen.

A little bit more complicated than that.

Since not long after TMNT III the new movie has been shopped around to different studios... originally at New Line/Golden Harvest (of course), then Tri-Star for a while, then things kind of crapped out. Whole teams of screenwriters (teams of screenwriters... the very concept is more than a little bit stupid) drew up scripts left and right, and Kevin and Peter vetoed one after the other of them -- as anyone at Mirage would tell you, they sucked, and everyone involved knew that even if they could find a studio interested in TMNT 4, a SUCKY TMNT 4 would bury the whole franchise.

* Edit, forgot to mention, around this time Peter Laird himself wrote up a 20-something page treatment to try and get the scripts going in the right direction... but was pretty much ignored by the studios.

At one point they pretty much had one lock stock and barrel -- a live-action film with Kevin Eastman's wife Julie playing a villainess from another dimension set amidst the story from the Donatello special with Kirby, who actually becomes like a fifth turtle in this -- but this fell apart. Ivey could probably get more into the "why" of it than I can, but I also know Mike Dooney even did some designs for it, cool biomechanical-type stuff.

Anyway, flash forward some years and Laird was damned close to sealing the deal on that TMNT live-action (with CGI assists) movie for the Hallmark Channel. As far as I know it was a done deal, and Laird was even talking about designs and stuff he was being given, so I'm really not sure why it fell apart. Sounded kinda cool. If I'm not mistaken it was more or less to be a loose adaption of the Michaelangelo special with Klunk.

Flash forward another couple of years, a video game director scores and is tapped to develop a new movie. This one actually gets made.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Flash forward another couple of years, a video game director scores and is tapped to develop a new movie. This one actually gets made.

Okay dude, you've made alot of good points in your posts, but something I just want to set straight, Kevin Munroe is not a video game director. Check his history, he's beeen in the field of animation for a long time now.

[Andrew NDB]

Okay dude, you've made alot of good points in your posts, but something I just want to set straight, Kevin Munroe is not a video game director. Check his history, he's beeen in the field of animation for a long time now.

I'll be the first one to point out if I'm wrong... but looking at his IMDB credits, correct me if I'm wrong, apart from directing the video game "Freaky Flyers," prior to TMNT he's really just done some production art and character design on something called "Donner" in 2001.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

I'll be the first one to point out if I'm wrong... but looking at his IMDB credits, correct me if I'm wrong, apart from directing the video game "Freaky Flyers," prior to TMNT he's really just done some production art and character design on something called "Donner" in 2001.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Munroe

[CJStyles]

I thought IMDB and Wikipedia were unrealiable?

[Andrew NDB]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Munroe

Nothing in there conflicts with what's in the IMDB directory. And his directing the "Freaky Flyers" video game is still his most prestigious accomplishment prior to being given TMNT.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Nothing in there conflicts with what's in the IMDB directory. And his directing the "Freaky Flyers" video game is still his most prestigious accomplishment prior to being given TMNT.

I would think working for Disney and Warner Bros doing writting and designs is way more prestigious than doing Freaky Flyers.

[gobo]

IMDB vs. Wiki... :lol:

[Revan]

I thought IMDB and Wikipedia were unrealiable?

you would be right

[Andrew NDB]

I would think working for Disney and Warner Bros doing writting and designs is way more prestigious than doing Freaky Flyers.

Depends on how you look at it, I guess. But directing anything, even a videogame -- which, in today's world is still typically a MASSIVE undertaking with many, many people/developers involved and budgets that sometimes exceed that of major Hollywood films -- is the only thing in his experience that indicates an ability to shoulder projects. Writing is great, doing designs and storyboards just as great, but this is comparing apples to oranges... to be a director is to be the captain of the boat, everything rests on your shoulders.

[Andrew NDB]

I thought IMDB and Wikipedia were unrealiable?

If you go to either for news updates, you'd be right.

[Avatar Yuffie]

Yay.... so lots of happy people.... can't be too bad, can it?

Oh, yes. I'm one of those dead fans who're revived thanks to this movie. The New Toon or the comics never did that.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Depends on how you look at it, I guess. But directing anything, even a videogame -- which, in today's world is still typically a MASSIVE undertaking with many, many people/developers involved and budgets that sometimes exceed that of major Hollywood films -- is the only thing in his experience that indicates an ability to shoulder projects. Writing is great, doing designs and storyboards just as great, but this is comparing apples to oranges... to be a director is to be the captain of the boat, everything rests on your shoulders.

Can't argue with that.

[Dragon Turtle]

I don't mean any offense, but those are just blanket statements. I know plenty of Mirage fans that are less-than-impressed with the new movie.

I just go by whats at the rottentomatoes website and buzz around the net, I never meant to imply all comic fans liked it or that all 80's cartoon fans hated it, of course there are fans of the comics who don't like the movie,(thats pretty much true for most movie adaptions), just as there are cartoon fans who probably loved the movie, my point was that the fanbase for the cartoon
is probably much larger then the fanbase of the comic, thus a straight-foward adaption of the comic with the same inept marketing campaign would
have fared no better.

[Andrew NDB]

I just go by whats at the rottentomatoes website and buzz around the net, I never meant to imply all comic fans liked it or that all 80's cartoon fans hated it, of course there are fans of the comics who don't like the movie,(thats pretty much true for most movie adaptions), just as there are cartoon fans who probably loved the movie, my point was that the fanbase for the cartoon
is probably much larger then the fanbase of the comic, thus a straight-foward adaption of the comic with the same inept marketing campaign would
have fared no better.

You're doubtlessly right about that (the cartoon spawning a much larger TMNT audience) and no one of sound mind can argue, but you assume that a TMNT film needs a built-in audience. It shouldn't. If it's a cool enough movie the kiddies will check it out and tell their friends about it and scream about it until their parents let them go, lest they be the only kid on the block who hasn't yet seen TMNT.

[Spitfire]

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=tmntcg.htm

Production Budget: $34 million

Domestic: $53,273,619
+ Foreign: $29,723,673
= Worldwide: $82,997,292

Doesn't sound like a bomb to me (unless they spent $40-50 million on marketing)

WB wanted it to make 100 mil domestic it made a little over half what they wanted. That's a total bomb.

Grindhouse is a bomb to but for that you have to understand a movie studio didn't make that two directors pretty much pocket paid for it. I believe Troublemaker is Robert's movie studio.

[iris]

WB wanted it to make 100 mil domestic it made a little over half what they wanted. That's a total bomb.
Dude, WB never expected TMNT to make 100 mil.

Really.

I don't know what they expected in the end, but TMNT's opening day did almost double what WB thought it would.

Is that bombing?

The movie turned a tidy profit. In my world, which I like to think is based somewhat, if not completely, in reality, that's called success.

[Cascadia]

If we want to talk about a recent flop, in terms of the movie theater, The Last Mimizy had alot of advertising and promotion and it did not perform very well. It was released on the same day as TMNT.

Domestic: $20,677,264 89.7%
+ Foreign: $2,378,329 10.3%
= Worldwide: $23,055,593

So, it is very hard to say if advertising always does wonders for the movie. However, this is not to say that its DVD sales and rentals will help it too.

[Moplaya43]

We wont know if the movie "bombed" until after the DVD sales

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Dude, WB never expected TMNT to make 100 mil.

Really.

I don't know what they expected in the end, but TMNT's opening day did almost double what WB thought it would.

Is that bombing?

The movie turned a tidy profit. In my world, which I like to think is based somewhat, if not completely, in reality, that's called success.

Thank you, exactly.

If WB expected this movie to hit 100 mil, the advertising would be much stronger.

This movie had so much going against it(The PG rating, the heavy competition, the lack of excitment from the general public, the fact that years of penguins, ogres, and other talking animals have turned people off to CGI), it did pretty much what everyone thought it would.

[SassyGal]

Dude, WB never expected TMNT to make 100 mil.

Really.

I don't know what they expected in the end, but TMNT's opening day did almost double what WB thought it would.

Is that bombing?

The movie turned a tidy profit. In my world, which I like to think is based somewhat, if not completely, in reality, that's called success.

Thank you Iris!! So much negativity...makes my heart so sad:cry: It was a great movie and made way more money than I thought it would give all the crap reviews it got from people who apparently thought TMNT was created by Shakespeare:lol:

[Dragon Turtle]

You're doubtlessly right about that (the cartoon spawning a much larger TMNT audience) and no one of sound mind can argue, but you assume that a TMNT film needs a built-in audience. It shouldn't. If it's a cool enough movie the kiddies will check it out and tell their friends about it and scream about it until their parents let them go, lest they be the only kid on the block who hasn't yet seen TMNT.


I wasn't nesesscarily saying TMNT needed a built in audience,I believe the last kid property to truly capitalize on its popularity at the boxoffice was Pokemon with its first few movies, Yu-gi-oh tanked (Harry Potter is a different story). It's all about marketing and public awareness.


I believe the kids that actually saw the movie did come out of it thinking that it was a great movie, as evident by the toy and videogame sales. But how many kids actually got to see the movie, remember there were two much more aggressively promoted kid movies that came out at the same time, The Last Mimzy and Meet the Robinsons, also consider that even positive reviews discouraged parents into taking smaller kids to see the movie because it was too "scary".

The other big problem with Warner Bros' marketing other then there wasn't enough of it, was that it was extremely one dimensional, it never occurred to them older fans were interested in seeing the turtles, the few tv commercials the had mostly aired during daytime soap operas and Oprah(no doubt aiming at soccer moms), with silly taglines such as "The First Great
Family Film of the Year!"). No major attempt whatsoever was made to market this movie older audience. According to Warner Bro's own exit polls 44% of the audience on opening weekend were over the age of twelve, only 28% percent of the audience were kids (the other 28% were parents). And it had a Cinemascore of A-.


Even a befuddled Dan Fellman,WB president of distribution, had to admit:

"It's been 14 years since the last movie, a lot of kids grew up on it and wanted to see the new movie. I was hoping we could get TMNT to the high teen millions.".

High teen millions? with a next to nothing marketing campaign and pushing the release date closer to 300, yeah sure Mr. Fellman.:roll:

[LogicDonny]

the dvd sales will soar more than what it made in theatres.. Here what we need to do people, we need to buy the dvd then show it to your relatives, friends, anyone you know. Show them what a turtle fan loves about being a turtle.

Just an idea.

[Andrew NDB]

The marketing campaign seemed sound enough. I even caught a preview of it when I plugged in my Playstation 3.

the dvd sales will soar more than what it made in theatres..

If it does -- and it won't, though it may do gangbusters as far as DVD sales are concerned -- that will only cement the only chance of a sequel being as a direct-to-DVD sequel.

it never occurred to them older fans were interested in seeing the turtles

Not true. Rumor has it they hired one or two of us to look over a thing or two...

In any event "older fans" is pretty subjective. What older fans, and fans of what? The cartoon? The Mirage comics? These are worlds apart.

[iris]

Even a befuddled Dan Fellman,WB president of distribution, had to admit:

"It's been 14 years since the last movie, a lot of kids grew up on it and wanted to see the new movie. I was hoping we could get TMNT to the high teen millions.".

High teen millions? with a next to nothing marketing campaign and pushing the release date closer to 300, yeah sure Mr. Fellman.:roll:

Er... "high teen millions" would be somewhere between 15 and 20 million.

But the marketing was iffy. They really did let a lot ride on word of mouth, which might have worked very well with a little facilitation. (You know, Mr. Weinstein, someone has to actually know about it before word of mouth can spread.)

[Spitfire]

Dude, WB never expected TMNT to make 100 mil.

Really.

You guys got a short memory then. It was all over the boards when they said for there to be a sequel they wanted 100 Mil domestic.

[iris]

They still never expected it to make 100 mil. :p

That number would have guaranteed a sequel, but not making that number doesn't preclude the possibility. Nor does it mean failure. Like people have said, the movie made back the investment and then some, and there's yet more money to be made on DVDs and so forth. TMNT proved to be a good investment. This movie proved TMNT can still make money, and it could probably make more money with better marketing (although to be honest I have very little confidence in Warner's marketing strategies). IMO, whether Warner will want to invest again will really depend on what other solid investment options they have.

[Dragon Turtle]

The marketing campaign seemed sound enough. I even caught a preview of it when I plugged in my Playstation 3.



I saw no billboards, no posters, no placards on buses, and very few tv commercials, it is easy to tell when a movie is being under promoted, especially when the day it comes out the only ad for the movie in the friday movie section is a small black and white ad buried with all the other small black and white ads. If public awareness for 300 was around 60% which
had a much better tv campaign, I can only imagine what the public awareness for TMNT was.


If it does -- and it won't, though it may do gangbusters as far as DVD sales are concerned -- that will only cement the only chance of a sequel being as a direct-to-DVD sequel.

A major selling dvd will only add more ammunition for the case for a sequel,
the already can say the movie was undermarketed, wasn't marketed to a broad enough market, and was dumped in very tough time frame, going up
against movies like 300, Blades of Glory, and Meet the Robinsons(all of whom made 100 million at the boxoffice.).

Unlike TMNT, there are many comicbook movies that failed to recover their
production+maketing budget domestically yet still recieved sequels.

Also other then 300, TMNT is so far this year, the only other movie WB can
hang their hat on.



Not true. Rumor has it they hired one or two of us to look over a thing or two...

In any event "older fans" is pretty subjective. What older fans, and fans of what? The cartoon? The Mirage comics? These are worlds apart.

The die was cast when they ordered the movie to be PG, the movie was only
given the go ahead in order to capitalize on the toy sales for the new cartoon, only near the very end (after a few positive test screenings)
did they make a few token attempts to broaden the net outside of little kids, but by then it was too little too late. And "older fans" doesn't necessarily mean diehard comic or cartoon fans, there are also casual fans of the turtles or people who may not have been huge fans of the turtles but were at least familiar with them and didn't mind going to see a movie starring them. You certainly can't say that all the people who went to see Ghostrider were diehard fans.

[Avatar Yuffie]

My McDonald's didn't even have TMNT posters that offers toys in their Happy Meals.

So yeah, their advertisement sucks.

[Spitfire]

TMNT was advertised just fine all in all.

And I know your sick of hearing I work at Best Buy but we run the add once every hour and we have been for a month now. Every store runs the same ads so that's tons of Best Buys. And millions of people shop there so you can imagine how many people saw the ad.

On top of that some cartoon DVDs advertised it*Like the 3rd season of Batman Beyond* and FF DVD.

Also every MD's in my area had the TMNT posters and I have like 3 by my house. I don't watch TV so I don't know how those ads went but every movie theater I've been to has had 2 posters for it as well.

And last time I saw it*A week ago* they were still showing it 4 times a day.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

I saw no billboards, no posters, no placards on buses, and very few tv commercials, it is easy to tell when a movie is being under promoted, especially when the day it comes out the only ad for the movie in the friday movie section is a small black and white ad buried with all the other small black and white ads. If public awareness for 300 was around 60% which
had a much better tv campaign, I can only imagine what the public awareness for TMNT was.


I live in LA, so I'm essentially close to Warner Bros studios, I never saw one billboard, one add on bustios, I never even saw in posters in the theatres. Well, I did see one outside on the side of the theatre.

The only way i could see anything for the movie was either online, or the occasional TV comercial.

Though, whats intresting is, when I went to go see Spiderman 3 last week, me and my friend went into Best Buys first, and sure enough, they were playing the trailer(in glorious high def).

Too bad the movie had left theatres by then.

[Warhorse]

I live in LA, so I'm essentially close to Warner Bros studios, I never saw one billboard, one add on bustios, I never even saw in posters in the theatres. Well, I did see one outside on the side of the theatre.

The only way i could see anything for the movie was either online, or the occasional TV comercial.

Though, whats intresting is, when I went to go see Spiderman 3 last week, me and my friend went into Best Buys first, and sure enough, they were playing the trailer(in glorious high def).

Too bad the movie had left theatres by then.

Same here. I never would have known about the movie if it wasnt for the Technodrome.

And people that I know, that know about the movie, learned about it from me!

This makes me wonder. What if, this movie had been released, say, in September or October, but the trailers for it started on movies like Spider-Man, POTC AWE, and since it is WB, Harry Potter. It would have gotten maximum exposure, and the movie would have been relelased at the end of summer, after all the big blockbusters have come and gone. And, also, since it's nearing the end of summer, it could have been advertised not only as toys, but on back packs, lunch boxes and other school related stuff, since kids will be buying that stuuf anyways.:ohwell:

Oh well, no use in wondering about the could'ves and should'ves.:-?

[FearlessLeader]

The one thing that really bothered me was how after the film came out we saw nearly no advertising for it at all anymore. I watched an hour and a half of TV tonight and I saw at least 10 commercials trumping up how amazing Spiderman is doing at the box office.

I never saw a #1 in America commercial for Turtles.

I think two things hurt the movie and one was lack of advertising. I have been hearing about Spiderman for 6 months now. I think they devoted 5-10 mintues of airtime during Heroes to it each week sense the start of the new year. Turtles got some commercials, but honestly little else.

They released it at an rather hectic movie time. In my opinion half the reason Ghostrider did as well as it did was because it had nothing like it to compete against for weeks. A fall or late winter release for this film would have drawn in larger numbers for it, I totally agree with Warhorse's statement above me.

[gobo]

Dude, WB never expected TMNT to make 100 mil.

Really.
You guys got a short memory then. It was all over the boards when they said for there to be a sequel they wanted 100 Mil domestic.
I think she meant that 'wanting' and 'expecting' are two entirely different things at times. Here's how I'm thinking it went.

Mirage: No. This isn't supposed to be all about weird pizza toppings and fighting The Shredder. We don't need any celebrity voices either.
WB: Really? If you're so confident that making it your way will work, you should have no problem making 100 mil.
Mirage: Uh... S-sure. :sweatdro:
WB: That didn't sound so confident... How about you let us put in a few 'names' this time. When you make 100 mil, we'll let you do the sequel entirely your way. Agreed?
Mirage: Sounds fair. With a powerhouse like you handling our advertisement, it'll make that a cinch. (exits)
Wakko: Weren't those the guys that went potty on our cartoon concept a few years ago?
Yakko: Knock it off already. They let me be Ralphatello back in the day, so they're aces in my book. You can be in the movie if it bothers you that much.
Dot: I'm the cute one.

I'm gonna cut that short before including any 'Kala, the Neutrino' references... and mention Mikey saying, "I'm the cute one" in a 4Kids ep... Was it >>'s "Obsolete"? But, yeah... I'm thinking Wakko saboutaged the advertising when he discovered his part in the movie was only 'additional voices'. :D

NOTICE: The previous scenario is merely a theory. It in no way reflects actual events (as far as we know). Also, the names have been changed to protect the innocent. They have also been portrayed as cartoons themselves to be more entertaining in the mundane dealings that are the entertainment industry. If anyone should take this scenario as an attempt at relaying fact or rumor, psychological treatment may be required.

[bullet]

after the film came out all i saw were advertisements about that particular tower toy, and that's about it. even that was sorta rare. but i actually did see the TMNT movie commercial quite frequently, granted it was a week or two just prior to release date.

surprisingly, on its date of release the theatres weren't packed with people..i mean at least we didn't have to line up. for spiderman 3 we literally had to form a line around the whole theatre to get good seats (or any seats at all). even summin like resident evil i remember was so packed on the first day that there weren't enough seats for people to sit in! (f'n moviehoppers)

[ToTheNines]

TMNT had finally made its way to my local discount theatre!

[audman]

have you guys seen the box office actually improved in the past week. Last week it was appearing to be on its death path. However later in the week it spiked and has not dropped. It appears to have been picked up by more theaters also. Could these be the lower priced matinee places or whatever they are called. Either way they are back up fighting for more dollars than last week. I am glad people are still supporting it.

[Janus Prospero]

have you guys seen the box office actually improved in the past week. Last week it was appearing to be on its death path. However later in the week it spiked and has not dropped. It appears to have been picked up by more theaters also. Could these be the lower priced matinee places or whatever they are called. Either way they are back up fighting for more dollars than last week. I am glad people are still supporting it.

Heh! That's awesome audman!

And you're right. Checking the TMNT daily's (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=daily&id=tmntcg.htm) on boxofficemojo.com, we see that the number of theaters playing TMNT increased by 142 on the 11th. Due to the increased viewings, the movie made about $72,000 more this weekend than it did last.

I'm assuming this is due to a lot of discount theaters picking the movie up. The cheap-o theater in my area started showing it last Friday as well.

[jenna]

I'm assuming this is due to a lot of discount theaters picking the movie up. The cheap-o theater in my area started showing it last Friday as well.

Must find a "cheap-o-theatre" locally... Must find a "cheap-o-theatre" locally.. Must find a "cheap-o-theatre" locally... Must find a "cheap-o-theatre" locally... Must find a "cheap-o-theatre" locally... Must find a "cheap-o-theatre" locally....

Actually, ironically, I don't know if such a thing exists around here. We've only got the big ones. Stupid England.

[Janus Prospero]

Must find a "cheap-o-theatre" locally... Must find a "cheap-o-theatre" locally.. Must find a "cheap-o-theatre" locally... Must find a "cheap-o-theatre" locally... Must find a "cheap-o-theatre" locally... Must find a "cheap-o-theatre" locally....

Heh, wouldn't that distract you from your studying though? ;)

[Whitewolf89]

okay, guys, I just figured up the current TOTAL box office for TMNT (domestic AND foreign), and UNLESS I TOTALLY MIS-figured things (which is usually likely, since I'm NOT what you'd call a math whiz), the GRAND total for it stands at $86,840,820!!! Not BAD, eh?

And the BIGGEST foreign box office total goes to Austrailia, with an amazing $5,596,738!

Then once you figure the sales for the DVDs once THEY're released....well, let's just say that WB is going to MORE than recoop it's production costs.

[Andrew NDB]

okay, guys, I just figured up the current TOTAL box office for TMNT (domestic AND foreign), and UNLESS I TOTALLY MIS-figured things (which is usually likely, since I'm NOT what you'd call a math whiz), the GRAND total for it stands at $86,840,820!!! Not BAD, eh?

Not bad? An infinitesimal profit after figuring for marketing and distribution costs and what we're looking at is the death rattle of any chance for a sequel (at least, theatrically). Even WB said this film had to break 100 -- and that's just domestically -- before there is a holy hooting hell of a chance.

They'll recoup their production costs, but what about the marketing and distribution costs? And sequels are traditionally expected to only garner half of what a predecessor earned... you think anyone with half a wit about them is going to bank on a TMNT sequel earning only 40 million worldwide?

Not only no, but hell no. With emphasis.

[Janus Prospero]

Not bad? An infinitesimal profit after figuring for marketing and distribution costs and what we're looking at is the death rattle of any chance for a sequel (at least, theatrically). Even WB said this film had to break 100 -- and that's just domestically -- before there is a holy hooting hell of a chance.

They'll recoup their production costs, but what about the marketing and distribution costs? And sequels are traditionally expected to only garner half of what a predecessor earned... you think anyone with half a wit about them is going to bank on a TMNT sequel earning only 40 million worldwide?

Not only no, but hell no. With emphasis.

I really don't want to wait another 14 years. :tgrumble:

[ToTheNines]

And how are you a TMNT fan? That's some mega negatory **** brother.

EDIT: That was to the NDB dude, by the way.

[FearlessLeader]

Not bad? An infinitesimal profit after figuring for marketing and distribution costs and what we're looking at is the death rattle of any chance for a sequel (at least, theatrically). Even WB said this film had to break 100 -- and that's just domestically -- before there is a holy hooting hell of a chance.

They'll recoup their production costs, but what about the marketing and distribution costs? And sequels are traditionally expected to only garner half of what a predecessor earned... you think anyone with half a wit about them is going to bank on a TMNT sequel earning only 40 million worldwide?

Not only no, but hell no. With emphasis.

I'll wait until someone who actually works for one of the companies decides we are going to get a second movie or not before I pass judgement.

Opinions are always nice, but trying to pass one's opinion as fact is simply neither needed nor welcome in my opinion.

Yeah for everyone who wants to be negative and drag everyone else down. I for one will remain hopeful and positive until I have CONCRETE reason not to be.

[bullet]

Yeah for everyone who wants to be negative and drag everyone else down. I for one will remain hopeful and positive until I have CONCRETE reason not to be.

same here :tgrin:

[jenna]

Heh, wouldn't that distract you from your studying though? ;)

Errr.... yeah... kinda....

Busted!:lol:

[Tinuvielsdreams]

I feel the same way... I have complete hope and faith in the franchise. I think I always will until we are indefinitely shot down

[jenna]

I feel the same way... I have complete hope and faith in the franchise. I think I always will until we are indefinitely shot down

Yeah, me too. Just gotta love it for what it is.

[Dragon Turtle]

Not bad? An infinitesimal profit after figuring for marketing and distribution costs and what we're looking at is the death rattle of any chance for a sequel (at least, theatrically). Even WB said this film had to break 100 -- and that's just domestically -- before there is a holy hooting hell of a chance.

They'll recoup their production costs, but what about the marketing and distribution costs? And sequels are traditionally expected to only garner half of what a predecessor earned... you think anyone with half a wit about them is going to bank on a TMNT sequel earning only 40 million worldwide?

Not only no, but hell no. With emphasis.


I highly doubt marketiing costs were even in double digits, and while traditionally it is true sequels perform less then their predecessors, it is not an absolute certainty,(the X-Men movies for example) especially if the studio knows they screwed up.

I certainly wouldn't solely use boxoffice numbers alone to determine
whether or not a movie will get a sequel, if that was the case then
all the following movies wouldn't be getting sequels:


Hulk
Punisher
Hellboy
Superman Returns
Batman Begins
Ghost rider
Star Trek

All these movies failed to recoup their production and marketing budgets,
in fact based solely on their boxoffice performance, Superman and Batman
were each around 60 million in the red. Why invest money in these movies
if they will only do half the business of their predecessors?

[ToTheNines]

Batman Begins and Ghost Rider made plenty of money.

[Whitewolf89]

Hmmm, no offence, Andrew, but before I start giving up on a sequel, I'll wait til I hear what OFFICIAL sources (Like Kevin Monroe; etc.) have to say on the subject first. And to THAT end, I'm going to be cautiously optimistic til in June. That's when that big meeting (or whatever it is) is going to be, so I'll just wait to see what happens then, and what Kevin tells us.

[Dragon Turtle]

Batman Begins and Ghost Rider made plenty of money.

Yes, but not enough to make up their production and marketing budgets, if you were to go strictly by their boxoffice numbers. Dvd sales, tv licenses, and merchadise sales also play a part in determining whether a movie gets a sequel, without these, none of the aforementioned movies would have received sequels.

[iris]

Not bad? An infinitesimal profit after figuring for marketing and distribution costs and what we're looking at is the death rattle of any chance for a sequel (at least, theatrically). Even WB said this film had to break 100 -- and that's just domestically -- before there is a holy hooting hell of a chance.

They'll recoup their production costs, but what about the marketing and distribution costs? And sequels are traditionally expected to only garner half of what a predecessor earned... you think anyone with half a wit about them is going to bank on a TMNT sequel earning only 40 million worldwide?

Not only no, but hell no. With emphasis.

"infinitesimal"
:lol:

"death rattle"
:lol: :lol:

"only 40 million"
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Wait... this was a joke, right?

[Whitewolf89]

Somehow, I don't think so. I think he's dead serious.

[bullet]

i feel sad about punisher 2 being possibly and indefinitely delayed, last i heard...thomas jane has pulled himself out due to an extremely sad script :(

i liked the first.

[SLASH!!!]

Yes, but not enough to make up their production and marketing budgets, if you were to go strictly by their boxoffice numbers. Dvd sales, tv licenses, and merchadise sales also play a part in determining whether a movie gets a sequel, without these, none of the aforementioned movies would have received sequels.

I don't know where you get your information but Batman Begins made about $371,853,783 worldwide on a budget of $150 million. So they made back their money.

[Tinuvielsdreams]

i feel sad about punisher 2 being possibly and indefinitely delayed, last i heard...thomas jane has pulled himself out due to an extremely sad script :(

i liked the first.

The director pulled out too, from what I heard anyway. Must have been a REALLY bad script

[Dragon Turtle]

I don't know where you get your information but Batman Begins made about $371,853,783 worldwide on a budget of $150 million. So they made back their money.


I believe Batman made his money back in dvd sales, remember about half of the worldwide figure goes to the movie theaters, then subtract the production budget. That would have given Batman a profit of about 36 million, which would have been excellent, but where Warner Bros. made a mistake was the huge marketing budget of 100 million, WB were hoping for Spiderman like numbers, that wiped out their profits and left them nearly 60 million in the hole.

[X]

Andrew I have stated time and time again, and this is coming from a person who is good friends with the assistant cordinator of many films (although not the point, I did learn a lot from her.)

I have stated that in an interview with Tom Gray (hope I got his name right, but Gray is his last name,) he said that this is a film that wasn't handled like normal films.

1. The film was made on the cheap in Hong Kong (or was it Tokyo.)

2. WB wasn't pressured at all to front all the costs for the marketing like many a company does for films when they distribute them. It was halved evenly with Imagi and WB, and maybe even a third party.

3. AGAIN! If a Weinstein says, "It's sequel time dudes," unless he is lying, there will be a sequel. Get this straight, the Weinstein brothers are very influential in Hollywood. Hell they could probably take a poo on the floor and ask the folks at WB to eat it and they would. They have backed many films, and if WB doesn't like the B.O. take on TMNT the Weinsteins (pending truthfulness in their statement about a sequel,) will tell them suck a fat one. They will then take the film to another studio sorta like how Hellboy went from Columbia to Universal (seeing as it didn't make the money it should have according to the studio.) You have so little knowledge about the industry bro, so the negativity should be toned down (even though everyone has a right to an opinion,) so you don't destroy the hopes of those who are diehard TMNT fans.

I will gladly find this article if need be, to show that Tom Gray said those statements, saying that, that is how they are able to hold a profit so early on in the films B.O. take, as well as any future persuasion in getting WB to greenlight a sequel. Had WB pulled their heads out of their collective asses, they would've released the film at a time that not so much competition was iminant. That is their bad, not anyone elses. All these teens who think they have to see every Will Ferell movie (honestly he's kinda stale imo,) just took away any chance of those teens or whatnot, to see this product. Who knows however, I will not say what is for sure happening outside of what a Weinstein said.

I would be surprised if it DIDN'T get greenlit. June is the magical day that decides if after a long night of clubbing I don't have to mess with TMNT until they decide to show up on the air again, and I can recoup after a night of gettin down on the dance floor. I have high hopes for the future of the TMNT though, as I think many others here do.

-X-

[Roseangelo]

Since no one's quoted Kevin from the other thread over here...

TMNT SEQUEL – No, there is no word yet. Everyone involved is very excited and happy with the b.o. of the movie. We’ll just have to wait and see. But I’ll be here immediately either way. The pessimist in me thinks that we’ll have to wait for dvd release, but I don’t want that to seem like a campaign to buy lots of dvd’s has to be started. I think everyone is counting on great dvd sales, and hopefully some good marketing with the release. As for the story, plot, etc. we’re sort of trying not to think about it (tho we have), as it’s kind of nice to build up a backlog of ideas. Your online discussions have been cool to check out. Fun to see when people are closer than you’d think.

[Warhorse]

The director pulled out too, from what I heard anyway. Must have been a REALLY bad script

Word I'm hearing, the studios wanted something more family friendly, something that was PG-13-ish, and they also wanted to change a whole bunch of things that Thomas Jane was against.

So I heard. Think I read that on IMDb or something.:ohwell:

[bullet]

from the email that jane wrote, apparently he wanted out due to it deviating too far from the source material? well i can respect him for wanting out, though...if he does it for the fans. i read that from the first one till now he's been workin non stop to keep in shape and all for the second film, so i imagine it really is that heart-wrenching for him to have to pull out like that. regardless...it's very disappointing :(

[Warhorse]

That's really sad about the Punisher. I really liked the first one, and I really thought Thomas Jane and Th Punisher were going to be the new Diehard for this generation. You know. Normal guy, with normal troubles and stuff, overcoming abnormal obstacles to save the day.

But if it's true that Die Hard 4 is going to be PG-13, looks like that will be sh!t on too! :evil:

[bullet]

why does every friggin thing have to be pg13 now? don't the kids get enough? :tgrumble:

[Cascadia]

I would wait to see what happens at that meeting in June..

[Andrew NDB]

Hmmm, no offence, Andrew, but before I start giving up on a sequel, I'll wait til I hear what OFFICIAL sources (Like Kevin Monroe; etc.) have to say on the subject first.

Kevin Munroe didn't fund the film, contrary to popular thought.

Hey, I'd happily be proven wrong. I know in his heart, Munroe has always wanted to do the definitive TMNT movie... perhaps a second time around he'll be given the leeway to do just that.

[Roseangelo]

Kevin Munroe didn't fund the film, contrary to popular thought.

Hey, I'd happily be proven wrong. I know in his heart, Munroe has always wanted to do the definitive TMNT movie... perhaps a second time around he'll be given the leeway to do just that.

Who the hell here has ever thought that Kevin Munroe personally funded the film? :roll:

You've been forum hopping for the last month declaring (basically, and to the annoyance of all) that the movie sucked, was a complete box office failure, and that there's no chance at all for a sequel. Now all of a sudden you'd "happily be proven wrong"? Whatever.

[FearlessLeader]

Kevin Munroe didn't fund the film, contrary to popular thought.

Hey, I'd happily be proven wrong. I know in his heart, Munroe has always wanted to do the definitive TMNT movie... perhaps a second time around he'll be given the leeway to do just that.

Whitewolf was not implying Kevin funded the film in the least, she was implying that considering he is the director of the film he is an OFFICAL source who will actually know if the second film has been green lighted or not.

For the rest of your comments I agree with Roseangelo.

[Andrew NDB]

You've been forum hopping for the last month declaring (basically, and to the annoyance of all) that the movie sucked, was a complete box office failure, and that there's no chance at all for a sequel. Now all of a sudden you'd "happily be proven wrong"? Whatever.

The premiere of the film brought me back to the TMNT fandom as it did many so I see no reason I should have to defend my "forum hopping." Not to you or anyone else.

And I apologize if, in your eyes, I'm some kind of an "annoyance of all" but I know there's a ton of folks on this board and others that are afraid to really voice their feelings about the new film for fear of sentiment like your own, or fear they'll get ganged up on for being anti-fans (not from you, but i.e., "How can you call yourself a TMNT fan when you don't like the movie, or not believing there's any chance for a sequel???"). I know because I've been speaking to many, both off-board and in PMs -- I'm far from calling these people the silent majority, but it should tell you something when these people are afraid to even be opening their mouths (in a manner of speaking) to their fellow fans lest they be demonized, as I've apparently done.

Mean Old Andrew could be wrong. Munroe could be overly optomistic. Weinstein could be showboating. Mirage could be wrong. Who knows? I've got some familiarity with the way the Hollywood machine works and have offered my personal opinion on how it may apply to not only TMNT, but any sequel we may or may not get. Should I, and people like me, just close our eyes, keep our opinions to ourselves and go http://www.ninjaturtlesempire.com/forum/images/smilies/lalala.gif and pretend everything is fine and OK? Would this truly be best, on a discussion board no less?

[Lisardo]

I think what Andrew meant is if TPTB a sequal does come out with a decent storyline, then so be it.

[Roseangelo]

There's nothing wrong with posting at multiple forums; lots of people around here do, including myself. But I have literally watched you start the same conversation on three different forums now. When the first one got bored with you and stopped paying attention to you, you moved to the second. When the second got bored with you and stopped paying attention, you came here. No one else, even those brought back to fandom because of the movie (and I know there are many), has done that.

I don't care if people did or didn't like the movie, that's not my role to play. I liked the movie and all of my close friends liked the movie, so I can easily be content talking with them about it without worrying that every other person on the Internet who's a TMNT fan also liked the movie. At the same time, I do recognize that there are flaws in the movie and some things could have been done better/differently. I've certainly had these discussions, too.

Thing is that pretty much everyone recognizes that the movie did not produce the numbers we would have liked it to, and we all know it didn't hit the "for sure" number for a sequel. But you came here declaring not opinions, but FACT. Discussion is great, but you were not asking for discussion. You were proclaiming THIS IS HOW IT IS, DEAL WITH IT. And the way you present yourself makes it seem as if we're supposed to just accept what you say because YOU said it, as if you're "the Decider" for how things are.

It wasn't what you had to say that brought negative comments your way on THREE different message boards, it was how you said it (as FACT, not opinion) and your "better than thou" attitude.

But none of that was even the point of my earlier post. The point of my earlier post was that it seems very convienent for you to suddenly "hope to be proved wrong" about all of these "opinions" you have been preaching for the last month just after the director of the movie stated that everyone involved IS, in fact, happy with the numbers that were returned. You don't get to play both sides of the fence.

[raphdude]

Andrew,

As one who was NOT OVERJOYED with the new film, You and your views are truly are a BREATH OF FRESH AIR on this forum and I mean that with all sincerity!8)

You rock!!:D
:tparty:

[Andrew NDB]

There's nothing wrong with posting at multiple forums; lots of people around here do, including myself. But I have literally watched you start the same conversation on three different forums now. When the first one got bored with you and stopped paying attention to you, you moved to the second. When the second got bored with you and stopped paying attention, you came here.

I don't want to quibble with you, as I don't lump you in with the people crying "Anti-fan!" for no good reason. You've been around the fandom as long as I have, probably longer, and are as hip to it as anyone is.

That said, your comments here are a little bit offensive to me.

To be honest, I'd totally forgotten about the Technodrome over the years (and it has been around the better part of a decade in one form or another, so this is my fault)... I forgot it even had a message board. Did I post my review of the new movie on TMNT-L? Did I post it on Mikey's? Did I post it here?

I'm guilty of having to answer "Yes" on all 3 fronts. Is there something the matter with this? On a cursory glance, it seems all 3 message boards are kind of (and not in a bad sense at all) representative of different "Factions," if you will, of TMNT fans. Posting it in all 3 seems a sensible thing to do, as I'm curious what all TMNT fans feel about it, as well as hearing if anyone has the same reaction as myself. Turns out there is. Turns out there's many. But it also turns out that of these many, pretty much all of them are afraid to speak up about it, and that's sad.

At any rate, if you've been tracking me as well as you seem to have, in all fairness you might note that my posting on the aforementioned boards have not revolved strictly around the new movie as you seem to imply. There's been a ton of damned fascinating threads I've been happy to contribute to, not just here but elsewhere in recent days.

No one else, even those brought back to fandom because of the movie (and I know there are many), has done that.

I don't see how this means anything one way or the other.

I don't care if people did or didn't like the movie, that's not my role to play. I liked the movie and all of my close friends liked the movie, so I can easily be content talking with them about it without worrying that every other person on the Internet who's a TMNT fan also liked the movie.

That's cool. I have several close friends deep into TMNT who would swear by the new film... we agree to disagree, celebrate our differences, and still have fun talking TMNT.

At the same time, I do recognize that there are flaws in the movie and some things could have been done better/differently. I've certainly had these discussions, too.

You have, and you've brought up a great many excellent points that I've read.

Thing is that pretty much everyone recognizes that the movie did not produce the numbers we would have liked it to, and we all know it didn't hit the "for sure" number for a sequel. But you came here declaring not opinions, but FACT.

What did I present as fact? Just offhand, almost all of my posts in this regard include a "In my view" or "In my opinion" as a disclaimer for exactly this kind of jumping-to-conclusional thought.

But now, are studios and financiers generally only willing to bank on sequels only doing half of what a predecessor doing? The answer is yes to this, and this is a fact, probably the only one I've presented as such. Now are there exceptions to the rule, could TMNT 2 be one? Sure, there's exceptions to any rule... but not many.

Discussion is great, but you were not asking for discussion. You were proclaiming THIS IS HOW IT IS, DEAL WITH IT.

How so? I have a pet peeve for blanket statements.

And the way you present yourself makes it seem as if we're supposed to just accept what you say because YOU said it, as if you're "the Decider" for how things are.

Can you offer an example?

It wasn't what you had to say that brought negative comments your way on THREE different message boards, it was how you said it (as FACT, not opinion) and your "better than thou" attitude.

I've never tendered a "better than thou" attitude and would ask you to elaborate on how anything I've said indicates this.

Even while being wantonly name-called and insulted here and on at least one other board, I've never once stooped to this level, cried foul, or gone running to "Call Dad."

But none of that was even the point of my earlier post. The point of my earlier post was that it seems very convienent for you to suddenly "hope to be proved wrong" about all of these "opinions" you have been preaching for the last month just after the director of the movie stated that everyone involved IS, in fact, happy with the numbers that were returned.

I didn't say I would "hope" to be proven wrong, I said I would happily be proven wrong. Now, I don't suspect I will, but all you should get out of my comment is that if I indeed am wrong, I'll happily come out and eat crow.

You don't get to play both sides of the fence.

Fair enough, but I'm not trying to.

[ToTheNines]

Point in case, it seems every last one of your posts is stating that a sequel isn't gonna happen (which would be devastating to alot of people here).

[bullet]

Just offhand, almost all of my posts in this regard include a "In my view" or "In my opinion" as a disclaimer for exactly this kind of jumping-to-conclusional thought.

andrew, i respect your opinion as much as the next guy but you seem to overlook the almost pseudo authoritative way you present yourself. i mean, not going to go around and track all your opinions on the matter but just grabbing your most recent two posts in this topic, we'll see what rose was referring to.

If it does -- and it won't, though it may do gangbusters as far as DVD sales are concerned -- that will only cement the only chance of a sequel being as a direct-to-DVD sequel.

Not bad? An infinitesimal profit after figuring for marketing and distribution costs and what we're looking at is the death rattle of any chance for a sequel (at least, theatrically). Even WB said this film had to break 100 -- and that's just domestically -- before there is a holy hooting hell of a chance.

They'll recoup their production costs, but what about the marketing and distribution costs? And sequels are traditionally expected to only garner half of what a predecessor earned... you think anyone with half a wit about them is going to bank on a TMNT sequel earning only 40 million worldwide?

Not only no, but hell no. With emphasis.

seriously, it's fine for you to present your view and all but when it comes to insults, it hardly makes sense that you should cry wolf when you've done a fair share yourself.

[Cascadia]

Andrew, you are not presenting yourself in a good way. You are fully entitled to your opinion but to insult us...that is going too far.

[Andrew NDB]

Andrew, you are not presenting yourself in a good way. You are fully entitled to your opinion but to insult us...that is going too far.

I challenge you to provide one example where I've insulted anyone on this board.

Seriously, it's fine for you to present your view and all but when it comes to insults, it hardly makes sense that you should cry wolf when you've done a fair share yourself.

I'll challenge you the same. If you're looking for name-calling and the like (something I have never done), look to the posts that are people responding to my own -- you'll find them there, not from me.

"you think anyone with half a wit about them" is referring to financiers/licensees, not fans, and I clearly state it as such (unless you believe fans are going to fund the sequel?).

Point in case, it seems every last one of your posts is stating that a sequel isn't gonna happen (which would be devastating to alot of people here).

I can understand that, if you're a fan that really dug the movie. But also understand there's TMNT fans out there that don't like the movie who are no more or less a fan as yourself for such.

[FearlessLeader]

I think a lot of people get "offended" for lack of a better word, because you tend to talk down to people who don't agree with whatever your point tends to be.

It's not that you are outright insulting, you are correct I haven't seen you plainly insulting anyone on here, but you certainly make people feel like complete idiots for even hazarding to think for a moment that someone, somewhere might want to fund a second film.

This in my opinion is why you are getting a negative reaction to your posts, not because people don't agree with the fact you should be able to have a different opinion, but because the way you come across makes it seem like you think all of us are stupid for our opinions (please note I said "makes it seem" I am not stating that you actually feel this way.)

This is also just the way I see it, if I am wrong please anyone feel free to correct me.

[bullet]

"you think anyone with half a wit about them" is referring to financiers/licensees, not fans, and I clearly state it as such (unless you believe fans are going to fund the sequel?).

though the latter part of that phrase referred to financiers/licensees, the "you" in that sentence referred to whoever your comment was in response to. i never said that you've insulted someone directly, it's more of an attitude that your words reflect - one that seems to belittle those you respond to...which is just as insulting, only not as direct. instead of just responding with your honest opinion, you felt a need to make the guy feel stupid for thinking what he did. reread the post in whole from the viewpoint of someone other than yourself and it should become clear what i'm talking about. in a manner of speaking, the way you come off to people is just as rose put it, "holier than thou."

the bolded part in your quote is where you've done just that, again. seriously dude if you want your posts to be taken seriously and without hostility, drop the needless sarcasm and bombastic rhetoric.

[Cascadia]

I did not say that your responses directly insulted anyone. Just as Reira and bullet mentioned...your wording makes it sound as a way of putting us down.

[Spitfire]

Well Mr.Andrew being as how you think it only made 40 Million world wide when it made almost 54 domestic I'd have to say you lose pretty much all creditability.

You know it's best to insult people when your right. When you don't you make an idiot out of yourself.

So congrats, your an idiot.

[Andrew NDB]

Well Mr.Andrew being as how you think it only made 40 Million world wide when it made almost 54 domestic I'd have to say you lose pretty much all creditability.

If you re-read my post you'll notice I was talking about how financiers will look at the prospect of a sequel, with the general rule of thumb in Hollywood being the anticipation that a sequel only earns half of what its predecessor did.

TMNT earned 80-some million. Worldwide.

Ergo, the sequel would be expected to earn 40-some million. Worldwide.

You know it's best to insult people when your right. When you don't you make an idiot out of yourself.

Yes, obviously it's much better to resort to name-calling. But then I'm the one insulting people, you see.

So congrats, your an idiot.

Ah, good. Name-calling of me again.

[Slash]

Well Mr.Andrew being as how you think it only made 40 Million world wide when it made almost 54 domestic I'd have to say you lose pretty much all creditability.

You know it's best to insult people when your right. When you don't you make an idiot out of yourself.

So congrats, your an idiot.

I love when people like you call someone an idiot but cannot use proper English. It's almost taking away your creditability. Quite comical..

Seriously, the movie tanked and was not as impressive as I wanted to see it. The graphics were lackluster - although the artwork for the prequels was dorkkgasmic. Such a great bunch of hype for Toddler Mutant Ninja Turtles. Would have loved to have seen the darkness and violence of the 4Kids TMNT.

I don't even blame Kevin Munroe - I blame Warner Brothers for putting together something that had so much potential but instead designed it to cater to 6 year olds.

I think it's great to see this revolution on the forums where people are starting to show up and say "Hey, this movie was not what we wanted!"

And Scientific freak, are you a member of Alpha Phi Omega?

[Dragon Turtle]

TMNT earned 80-some million. Worldwide.

Ergo, the sequel would be expected to earn 40-some million. Worldwide.



Only if Warner Bros. repeats their "lets bury this movie" marketing strategy, or tries to cram it into extremely crowed market place against movies that target similar audiences.

[Cascadia]

And Scientific freak, are you a member of Alpha Phi Omega?

:nod: I am a life-time member of Alpha Phi Omega...curiously, why do you ask?

[Slash]

:nod: I am a life-time member of Alpha Phi Omega...curiously, why do you ask?


I am helping my campus recharter... ;)

[Spitfire]

If you re-read my post you'll notice I was talking about how financiers will look at the prospect of a sequel, with the general rule of thumb in Hollywood being the anticipation that a sequel only earns half of what its predecessor did.
Being as how TMNT is a re-birth like Batman those rules really don't apply. If that was the case then # 3 would have never been made because 2 made way less then the first movie. And TMNT wouldn't have been made because 3 made even less then 2.

TMNT earned 80-some million. Worldwide.
Oh so we do pay attention to the facts that's good.

Ergo, the sequel would be expected to earn 40-some million. Worldwide.
And that has what to do with you thinking they won't make a sequel.

Yes, obviously it's much better to resort to name-calling. But then I'm the one insulting people, you see.
Better then playing the victim like you and making an ass out of myself. When everyone agrees that your doing something I think it just might be possible you are.

Ah, good. Name-calling of me again.
Yeah the word idiot must really hurt your feelings. I'm sorry you have the mentality of a 12 year old.

I love when people like you call someone an idiot but cannot use proper English. It's almost taking away your creditability. Quite comical..

Who the hell are you and where do you get off even addressing me? I forgot I was in an English class and not on a casual message board. I'll type however the hell I want and I'll call who I want an idiot. You got a problem it then don't read my posts.

[Cascadia]

I am helping my campus recharter... ;)

cool...good luck. The charter that I was a part of had 40 members. I was the Membership VP. ;) You can PM me if you want to chat about APO rather than in the TMNT movie threads.

[Andrew NDB]

Being as how TMNT is a re-birth like Batman those rules really aren't what apply. If that was the case then # 3 would have never been made because 2 made way less then the first movie. And TMNT wouldn't have been made because 3 made even less then 2.

Of course those rules apply -- we're talking about a theoretical sequel to the new movie (which is a reboot with only quasi-sequel attachments), not the new movie itself. Try to keep up.

TMNT 1 and 2 were both touted as the highest grossing films of 1990 and 1991. TMNT 1 earned 202,000,000 million worldwide (more than that in adjusted dollars today), TMNT 2 shortly behind it.

A rebirth like Batman? If only it had pulled those numbers.

And that has what to do with you thinking they won't make a sequel.

Because budgeted at 35 million, factoring in additional marketing and distribution costs (which even at a low, low estimate is going to be upwards of 10 million)... a 40 million dollar-earning TMNT sequel would lose millions?

Yeah the word idiot must really hurt your feelings.

Nope, I'm a big boy. It's just forehead slappable that when the discussion turns to Mean Old Angry insulting everyone (and I'm not) folks like you start literally name-calling me.

I'm sorry you have the mentality of a 12 year old.

Then I'm in good company, as you seem to have comparable reasoning and grammar. Just an observation.

You got a problem it then don't read my posts.

Now there's a novel idea. Want to apply it to my posts?

[Spitfire]

Now there's a thought. Want to apply it to my posts?

I'd love to if your advertisement didn't stab my eyes out every time I see a post of yours.

Go promote your dead message board somewhere else.

[Slash]

Who the hell are you and where do you get off even addressing me? I forgot I was in an English class and not on a casual message board. I'll type however the hell I want and I'll call who I want an idiot. You got a problem it then don't read my posts.

Glad to see you took my bait! Listen to your own words and advice. You have a problem with Andrew? Don't read his posts. Amazing how we can be hypocrites when it is perfect for us to.

And I get off addressing you as I want for I am someone.

Best of wishes to you pal. Remember, listen to your own advice. ;)

[Spitfire]

Glad to see you took my bait! Listen to your own words and advice. You have a problem with Andrew? Don't read his posts. Amazing how we can be hypocrites when it is perfect for us to.

And I get off addressing you as I want for I am someone.

Best of wishes to you pal. Remember, listen to your own advice. ;)

What do you have two accounts where you come and defend yourself now or what?

[Andrew NDB]

I'd love to if your advertisement didn't stab my eyes out every time I see a post of yours.

Go promote your dead message board somewhere else.

Run out of steam, have we?

[Spitfire]

Run out of steam, have we?

More like motivation, your extremely annoying and not even fun to argue with.

"I never do anything wrong *tear drop* everyone is mean to me first"

You keep thinking that and talking to yourself with your two accounts I'm done in here.

[Slash]

What do you have two accounts where you come and defend yourself now or what?

Comical and pathetic response. I do mod at Andrew's forum but I admin at MikeysTMNT and came close to having my own flame war against him.

And by the way, my account was created here many months ago so why would he wait now to use "Slash" as his weapon to fight you? It's a sad strategy if he was to.

:D

[Andrew NDB]

More like motivation, your extremely annoying and not even fun to argue with.

"I never do anything wrong *tear drop* everyone is mean to me first"

You keep thinking that and talking to yourself with your two accounts I'm done in here.

Please, continue this line of thought.

I'm certain a mod would be happy to check Slash's IP address. You'll find he's been a longtime member of not only the fandom, but a years-long mod at Mikey's TMNT.

[Slash]

More like motivation, your extremely annoying and not even fun to argue with.

"I never do anything wrong *tear drop* everyone is mean to me first"

You keep thinking that and talking to yourself with your two accounts I'm done in here.

Shame you can't see IP addresses for I and he are not the same. It also must be a shame that you are wrong.

Though we do see eye to eye on the idea that this movie could have been spectacular but instead we got the greatest pile of monkey crap ever!

[Roseangelo]

Run out of steam, have we?

Says the person who conveniently ignored statements said about him earlier, by more than one person, obviously because they're true.

Andrew obviously recruited Slash to come over here to "back him up." Being an ass with post #1 isn't the best move.

Why don't you use your own message board to talk about how the movie sucked; we've got better things to do over here.

[Slash]

Says the person who conveniently ignored statements said about him earlier, by more than one person, obviously because they're true.

Andrew obviously recruited Slash to come over here to "back him up." Being an ass with post #1 isn't the best move.

Why don't you use your own message board to talk about how the movie sucked; we've got better things to do over here.

I can honestly say that I was not recruited. You saw the flame war that almost broke out between me and Andrew on Mikey's when I went after him. I often check this place out but haven't posted until now. I always liked MikeysTMNT better because of my connections. But I decided to start scoping this place out in more detail because Mikey's is dying and this place is prospering.

Slash doesn't get recruited... he jumps in the battle to protect his friends.

[FearlessLeader]

It appears that Andrew and Slash know everything about everything and none of the rest of us should even bother to post here or have opinions.

By the way a "revolution"? You make me scoff. Are you people so offended by the fact some of us liked the film. Really.

You don't like the movie, you think it tanked, good for you. Start a thread and you and your revolution can have oddles of fun thinking up more ways that you can make all of us feel idiotic for liking it and leave the rest of us to discuss the film in peace.

I for one, like to remain positive. I enjoy it. If that bothers you, too bad.

[Andrew NDB]

Says the person who conveniently ignored statements said about him earlier, by more than one person, obviously because they're true.

You should talk -- you managed to ignore my entire rebuttal to you.

Andrew obviously recruited Slash to come over here to "back him up." Being an ass with post #1 isn't the best move.

I don't recruit anyone. Slash is of sound mind.

Why don't you use your own message board to talk about how the movie sucked; we've got better things to do over here.

Apart from my review itself -- 1 post -- the extent of my "how the movie sucked" postage has been relegated to the slim chance -- as I see it -- for a sequel. That this has a handful of sensitive types up in arms... well, I can't do anything about that.

[Andrew NDB]

It appears that Andrew and Slash know everything about everything and none of the rest of us should even bother to post here or have opinions.

Nope. You got opinions? Let's hear them, let's discuss them.

By the way a "revolution"? You make me scoff. Are you people so offended by the fact some of us liked the film. Really.

No, that's just putting words in our mouths. That we don't like the film is just our opinion... if that offends you, that's your own thing. Weren't you just talking about why someone should "even bother to post here or have opinions"?

Flip it around.

You don't like the movie, you think it tanked, good for you. Start a thread and you and your revolution can have oddles of fun thinking up more ways that you can make all of us feel idiotic for liking it and leave the rest of us to discuss the film in peace.

Last I checked, this thread was called "TMNT at the box office." It is not called "TMNT at the box office -- only positive messages allowed."

I for one, like to remain positive. I enjoy it. If that bothers you, too bad.

Doesn't bother me at all, that's totally cool.

[FearlessLeader]

Apart from my review itself -- 1 post -- the extent of my "how the movie sucked" postage has been relegated to the slim chance -- as I see it -- for a sequel. That this has a handful of sensitive types up in arms... well, I can't do anything about that.


"Sensitve" why how sweet of you.

Maybe it my fault for being on mutilpe forums but I feel like everytime I turn around I am having YOUR opinion about the how unlikely a sequel is literally shoved down my throat once again.

It's funny because you expect all of us to sit here and nod mutely everytime you grace us with your opinion about the how horrid the film did again and again, but the moment anyone says anything positive you HAVE to point out how we are silly for thinking so.

[Roseangelo]

You should talk -- you managed to ignore my entire rebuttal to you.

No, I just had no need to reiterate what three other people had to say.

I don't recruit anyone. Slash is of sound mind.

Yeah, I believe that.

Apart from my review itself -- 1 post -- the extent of my "how the movie sucked" postage has been relegated to the slim chance -- as I see it -- for a sequel. That this has a handful of sensitive types up in arms... well, I can't do anything about that.

Fine, I'll be more blunt. Why don't you go to your message board and discuss everything. Your manner of discussion (or actually, lack of discussion), is not wanted here, period.

[Andrew NDB]

Fine, I'll be more blunt. Why don't you go to your message board and discuss everything. Your manner of discussion (or actually, lack of discussion), is not wanted here, period.

Are you the spokesman of the Technodrome now? It's funny how you arbitrarily seem to believe everyone sees things as you do.

[FearlessLeader]

Last I checked, this thread was called "TMNT at the box office." It is not called "TMNT at the box office -- only positive messages allowed."

.

Funny because to me it seems like you think the thread should be called. "TMNT at the box office: Why Andrew is going to inform us again and again why we all are idiots for thinking there will be a second film."

[Roseangelo]

Are you the spokesman of the Technodrome now? It's funny how you arbitrarily seem to believe everyone sees things as you do.

I claim nothing, but I didn't have to bring in any outsiders to support my statements.

[Slash]

It's kind of comical... I am not of sound mind? I am getting published soon for my research on September 11, and Manhattan's Muslims. I just graduated college with a 3.3 GPA and I am 22. I got hired for a full time job that starts in August. I am doing doctoral studies and grad work in September.

I speak my mind and no one else's. I do see this as a revolution because the fans need to start getting a better holding on the fandom - the second someone says something bad about a popular Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle related item, it is FLAME WAR/TROLLING/BASHING yet everyone else can make fun of The Next Mutations and Venus.

Honestly, it's group think mentality. It's like how all the Star Wars Fans loved Episode 1.

[Andrew NDB]

I claim nothing, but I didn't have to bring in any outsiders to support my statements.

Nope, you just make blanket statements and have the ego to presume you have the entire board in your corner.

[Spitfire]

I found this post of yours to be friendly
Not bad? An infinitesimal profit after figuring for marketing and distribution costs and what we're looking at is the death rattle of any chance for a sequel (at least, theatrically). Even WB said this film had to break 100 -- and that's just domestically -- before there is a holy hooting hell of a chance.

They'll recoup their production costs, but what about the marketing and distribution costs? And sequels are traditionally expected to only garner half of what a predecessor earned... you think anyone with half a wit about them is going to bank on a TMNT sequel earning only 40 million worldwide?

Not only no, but hell no. With emphasis.

You can be sincere all you want, insulting people is still insulting people, no matter how intelligent you try and be about it.

And I don't care if your party pal who joined 2 years ago defends you. I just find it funny he comes here "once in awhile" and that "once in awhile" just so happens to be the time your getting flamed by the message board as a whole. Then he goes on to say he backs his friends up, but he's not really defending you because you guys got into a fight on Mikey's board. That makes perfect sense.

Also great job double posting. I guess you forgot there's an edit button? Or did you want to advertise your forum some more?

[Andrew NDB]

It's kind of comical... I am not of sound mind? I am getting published soon for my research on September 11, and Manhattan's Muslims. I just graduated college with a 3.3 GPA and I am 22. I got hired for a full time job that starts in August. I am doing doctoral studies and grad work in September.

I speak my mind and no one else's. I do see this as a revolution because the fans need to start getting a better holding on the fandom - the second someone says something bad about a popular Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle related item, it is FLAME WAR/TROLLING/BASHING yet everyone else can make fun of The Next Mutations and Venus.

Honestly, it's group think mentality. It's like how all the Star Wars Fans loved Episode 1.

Nonsense, Slash. Everyone knows if you hated Batman & Robin and didn't believe it would get a direct sequel, you're not a Batman fan and a troll.

[Slash]

I claim nothing, but I didn't have to bring in any outsiders to support my statements.


What advantage would he have by bringing in 'Slash' to help him? I'm a lurker here. If he wanted support, he could have had Tokka and Jeph back him up because they are recognized names... Slash? No one knows me here.

[Andrew NDB]

I found this post of yours to be friendly


You can be sincere all you want, insulting people is still insulting people, no matter how intelligent you try and be about it.

And I don't care if your party pal who joined 2 years ago defends you. I just find it funny he comes here "once in awhile" and that "once in awhile" just so happens to be the time your getting flamed by the message board as a whole. Then he goes on to say he backs his friends up, but he's not really defending you because you guys got into a fight on Mikey's board. That makes perfect sense.

You can keep dredging up this post all you like, but please tell me where I'm insulting anyone in it.

[Slash]

Nonsense, Slash. Everyone knows if you hated Batman & Robin and didn't believe it would get a direct sequel, you're not a Batman fan and a troll.

My beef with the movie is this:

The artwork for the prequels was very great! I love it. I love the plots for the prequels. I even love the novel adaptation by Murphy. I was lead to believe that the new movie was going to be as awesome as the comics – like seeing Leo deal with the Ninja Tribunal, Raph do a lot of bloodshed, Casey and April being more of engaged but April hides that in front of Max Winters, etc.

Splinter, Mikey, and Don had virtually little dialogue in this movie! Mikey was supposed to get cake for Splinter, Splinter was supposed to be excited about cake… Leo was supposed to make a reference to Nightwing, from DC Comics, etc.

I was led by my expectations from the previews and teases. That is why I don't love the movie. Will I buy it on the day it comes out? Surely. Will I watch it all the time? Nah. But I will appreciate it for being an attempt at what I wanted.

[FearlessLeader]

It's kind of comical... I am not of sound mind? I am getting published soon for my research on September 11, and Manhattan's Muslims. I just graduated college with a 3.3 GPA and I am 22. I got hired for a full time job that starts in August. I am doing doctoral studies and grad work in September.

I speak my mind and no one else's. I do see this as a revolution because the fans need to start getting a better holding on the fandom - the second someone says something bad about a popular Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle related item, it is FLAME WAR/TROLLING/BASHING yet everyone else can make fun of The Next Mutations and Venus.

Honestly, it's group think mentality. It's like how all the Star Wars Fans loved Episode 1.

So what we can't actually LIKE the new film?? If we do it's just because we are following the group. Please. I could sit here and list off my accomplishments in real life to you too, but it's neither needed, nor do I need to prove myself to someone on a forum.

Guess what I speak my mind too. I LIKED THE FILM! Some people did. I can live with the fact that people don't like the film, what annoys me is people talking down to me because I did which both you and Andrew are doing.

You both could honestly learn how to communicate better with others.

As for the "fans taking back the fandom"? What does that means? I have been into Turtles for 20 years, because I liked the film am I not a fan?

[Roseangelo]

What advantage would he have by bringing in 'Slash' to help him? I'm a lurker here. If he wanted support, he could have had Tokka and Jeph back him up because they are recognized names... Slash? No one knows me here.

I know you.

Tokka stays neutral in these matters, you should know that. It's unreasonable to even mention any names in this manner as if people are going to come marching in picking sides.

[Spitfire]

You can keep dredging up this post all you like, but please tell me where I'm insulting anyone in it.

Your pretty much calling TMNT fans who want a sequel half wits. Like I said be as passive with your insults as you want it's still insulting. And being as how I'm not the only one who sees it I'd say I'm not totally alone here.

It's kind of comical... I am not of sound mind? I am getting published soon for my research on September 11, and Manhattan's Muslims.
If your so smart you wouldn't be wasting your time here. Seriously get over yourself. I don't care if you invent the cure of cancer that doesn't make you any less of a jackass.

[Slash]

So what we can't actually LIKE the new film?? If we do it's just because we are following the group. Please. I could sit here and list off my accomplishments in real life to you too, but it's neither needed, nor do I need to prove myself to someone on a forum.

Guess what I speak my mind too. I LIKED THE FILM! Some people did. I can live with the fact that people don't like the film, what annoys me is people talking down to me because I did which both you and Andrew are doing.

You both could honestly learn how to communicate better with others.

As for the "fans taking back the fandom"? What does that means? I have been into Turtles for 20 years, because I liked the film am I not a fan?

Honestly, I am happy that you enjoyed the film. It means that some fans got satisfaction out of it at the least. I personally loved the novel adaptation and the prequel comics that Mirage put out. Even the children's book with the backgrounds of the Generals, Monsters, etc. My reasons why I don't like the movie as much as everyone else is able to is because I get high hopes for it that were barely met. I wanted the batlike monster to be actually more than a cameo... The monsters made cameos at best. And none of the villains were left for further development to be made; even for comic book material. I would have liked to see Winters live at the end and fight crime in his Aztec like armor, or the Stone Generals still rampage out on the town. It was too much of a self contained plot for my liking. It felt like a filler to introduce the idea of another TMNT movie where they fight the Foot in an all out battle.

[Andrew NDB]

Your pretty much calling TMNT fans who want a sequel half wits. Like I said be as passive with your insults as you want it's still insulting. And being as how I'm not the only one who sees it I'd say I'm not totally alone here.

No, no "pretty much." Straight out -- tell me where am I insulting anyone. I'm dying to hear it.

If your so smart you wouldn't be wasting your time here. Seriously get over yourself. I don't care if you invent the cure of cancer that doesn't make you any less of a jackass.

Again with the name-calling. What is that Phil Collins song about colors?

[Lisardo]

I don't think anyone's meaning to talk down or insult anyone here. I have to agree that I'm glad there are people who have the courage to post their true feelings on the new movie, even it if is a bit opinionated. I don't see that Andrew or anyone else here who didn't like the film are trying to belittle those that DID like the film. Like it or don't. I don't care either way. I myself was not dubbed or recruited either. I saw the film and felt the same way, could have been better. If a sequal is made, I just hope it has a better storyline and is not as much of a KiddieLand.

[Slash]

Your pretty much calling TMNT fans who want a sequel half wits. Like I said be as passive with your insults as you want it's still insulting. And being as how I'm not the only one who sees it I'd say I'm not totally alone here.


If your so smart you wouldn't be wasting your time here. Seriously get over yourself. I don't care if you invent the cure of cancer that doesn't make you any less of a jackass.

You see, you are putting the insults in my mouth by saying that people are half wits for wanting a sequel. I want a sequel. I want to see something that makes me feel like endorsing it. When I saw the first episode of the 2k3 series, I was ecstatic... When I read the prequels and the novel adaptation days before the movie came out, I was drooling to see how the movie went. And it wasn't living up to my personal expectations.

And calling me a jackass when I never went out on an attack on you is the insult. I am here because I love Ninja Turtles like the rest of the people here. I know TMNT fans who hate Mirage comics, 2k3 series, etc. But they are still fans of TMNT. And I respect them all. I like talking with TMNT fans because they can educate me on things that I might not know, like what fully happened in the Archie comics or why Pete and Kevin split up from doing the comics.

[Andrew NDB]

So what we can't actually LIKE the new film??

No one is telling you you can't.

Guess what I speak my mind too.

Good! Afford us the same courtesy.

I LIKED THE FILM! Some people did.

Absolutely.

I can live with the fact that people don't like the film, what annoys me is people talking down to me because I did which both you and Andrew are doing.

We're not talking down to anyone. In fact, if you look at any comment that could be construed as negative in regard to the movie or the chance of a sequel, it's referring to no one but A) The movie(s) itself, or B) The financiers, or otherwise TPTB.

You both could honestly learn how to communicate better with others.

And you could loosen up a little -- we all breathe the same air, like the same Ninja Turtles (in one form or another). It's cool.

I have been into Turtles for 20 years, because I liked the film am I not a fan?

No one's saying that. What people are saying, however, is that folks that don't like the movie and don't believe there will be a sequel are not fans, even if they have been fans of the Turtles for 20 years.

[FearlessLeader]

No, no "pretty much." Straight out -- tell me where am I insulting anyone. I'm dying to hear it.

I will just quote myself from earlier:

I think a lot of people get "offended" for lack of a better word, because you tend to talk down to people who don't agree with whatever your point tends to be.

It's not that you are outright insulting, you are correct I haven't seen you plainly insulting anyone on here, but you certainly make people feel like complete idiots for even hazarding to think for a moment that someone, somewhere might want to fund a second film.

This in my opinion is why you are getting a negative reaction to your posts, not because people don't agree with the fact you should be able to have a different opinion, but because the way you come across makes it seem like you think all of us are stupid for our opinions (please note I said "makes it seem" I am not stating that you actually feel this way.)

This is also just the way I see it, if I am wrong please anyone feel free to correct me.


Honestly, I am happy that you enjoyed the film. It means that some fans got satisfaction out of it at the least. I personally loved the novel adaptation and the prequel comics that Mirage put out. Even the children's book with the backgrounds of the Generals, Monsters, etc. My reasons why I don't like the movie as much as everyone else is able to is because I get high hopes for it that were barely met. I wanted the batlike monster to be actually more than a cameo... The monsters made cameos at best. And none of the villains were left for further development to be made; even for comic book material. I would have liked to see Winters live at the end and fight crime in his Aztec like armor, or the Stone Generals still rampage out on the town. It was too much of a self contained plot for my liking. It felt like a filler to introduce the idea of another TMNT movie where they fight the Foot in an all out battle.

I can totally respect this and I am very sorry that you were disapointed by the film. I also was annoyed by how rushed the film was, they had so much story and simply not enough space to explore it fully or tell it in.

I am hoping if the second film is made maybe it will work towards correcting this issue you know??

And Andrew let me add, if you were to present yourself as nicely all the time as you did in your last post we could not be having any issues in this topic currently.

[Roseangelo]

I myself was not dubbed or recruited either.

Right. Says the person who started a thread anouncing the return of Andrew's website. I'm sure that's only coincidence. :roll:

[Spitfire]

No, no "pretty much." Straight out -- tell me where am I insulting anyone. I'm dying to hear it.

Here you go then
you think anyone with half a wit about them is going to bank on a TMNT sequel earning only 40 million worldwide?

Not only no, but hell no. With emphasis.
So we are half wits because we will go see a sequel then? Not only that but anyone who would attempt to make a sequel is also a half wit according to you. So there you just burned the TMNT fanbase, the director, and Laird. Good job Mr. High and Mighty.

Again with the name-calling. What is that Phil Collins song about colors?
Again addressing posts not aimed at you, man when is your guy's wedding?

[Lisardo]

Right. Says the person who started a thread anouncing the return of Andrew's website. I'm sure that's only coincidence. :roll:

Loosen up, you're trying to start fights.

[bullet]

interesting...apparently everyone and anyone who liked the movie, or found andrew's posts remotely offensive are only group thinking. slash the college graduate can be an individual and andrew can be an individual, but i can't be an individual because my enjoyment of the movie shows that i only like things that everyone else likes and take offense to what everyone else finds offensive.

:|

[Spitfire]

Loosen up, you're trying to start fights.

Hahaha and the purpose of you coming in here was what? To defend your friend like his other friend did in a fight he started.

Ironic huh?

[Slash]

I can totally respect this and I am very sorry that you were disapointed by the film. I also was annoyed by how rushed the film was, they had so much story and simply not enough space to explore it fully or tell it in.

I am hoping if the second film is made maybe it will work towards correcting this issue you know??

Thanks! Maybe you can agree with how I would have made the movie.. If the movie had played out that April was looking for the stone statues for Max Winters meanwhile the Foot were on the hunt for the 13 monsters while the turtles battled the 13 monsters and the Foot Clan, it would have made for a better movie. The sequel could have then been started with the stone generals being activated, capturing Leo and the 12 monsters while the 13th real monster was on the loose and rest of the turtle gang had to battle the Foot Clan to get into the Winters HQ and then had to fight the Generals. And then the ending could have been the same.

[Andrew NDB]

So we are half wits because we will go see a sequel then?

For the second time, as I clearly state in my post, I am talking about financiers of the theoretical sequel -- not fans.

Not only that but anyone who would attempt to make a sequel is also a half wit according to you.

From a strictly financial standpoint, yes. It doesn't make sense to make a movie that will, going by the standard Hollywood rule of thumb, lose millions (i.e., the "sequel will make half of a predecessor" rule of thumb -- I'm not making this up!).

So there you just burned the TMNT fanbase,

Not in the slightest.

the director,

I could see how someone might read that in my posts, but that's just not the case. I don't blame him in the slightest -- he's said numerous times he wishes he could have gone balls-out for the film but his hands were essentially tied for TPTB want of toys and licensee deals, etc.

Pity.

Again, I just mourn the film we could have had, not the film we did. I did enjoy many aspects of the film we got, and if you've read my review you should note I gave credit where credit is due -- they nailed the heart of the Turtles down pat.

and Laird.

Apart from his planned redo/removal of tones from Mirage Vol. 1 (which Rose has even been known to have a thing or two to say about) I have absolutely no problem with Laird.

I'm honestly not sure what level of involvement he had on the movie, but I'm fairly certain it wasn't vast, so I won't speak on what I don't know.

Again addressing posts not aimed at you, man when is your guy's wedding?

Slash was thinking sometime in the fall, but my folks won't be in town until the winter. Decisions, decisions....

[Lisardo]

Hahaha and the purpose of you coming in here was what? To defend your friend like his other friend did in a fight he started.

Ironic huh?

What 'fight'? More like a matter of different opinions.

[Slash]

interesting...apparently everyone and anyone who liked the movie, or found andrew's posts remotely offensive are only group thinking. slash the college graduate can be an individual and andrew can be an individual, but i can't be an individual because my enjoyment of the movie shows that i only like things that everyone else likes and take offense to what everyone else finds offensive.

:|

I'll be honest with you... I love the Foot clan and that is why I am a TMNT fan. I also will say that group think comes in when people don't allow for differences of opinions. Andrew and I had our battles over this topic. We sit on similar positions but not the same side of the fence.

You can be an individual for liking and loving the movie just as much as for hating it. I don't hate, I just feel disappointed. Kind of like how some people feel about Fast Forward.

By the way, nice Shredder signature. Is there more to that picture? And did you make it? I like it!

[Andrew NDB]

By the way, nice Shredder signature. Is there more to that picture? And did you make it? I like it!

The other day I found the DeviantArt with that, fullsize and in color and made it my wallpaper. Godly.

[gobo]

I'll leave this one alone since they aren't talking about your girlfriend. But, maybe you should take a hint and stop crushing people's hopes.

[bullet]

I'll be honest with you... I love the Foot clan and that is why I am a TMNT fan. I also will say that group think comes in when people don't allow for differences of opinions. Andrew and I had our battles over this topic. We sit on similar positions but not the same side of the fence.

You can be an individual for liking and loving the movie just as much as for hating it. I don't hate, I just feel disappointed. Kind of like how some people feel about Fast Forward.

interesting to know, people like things for different reasons...not that unusual. your previous "group think" blanket statement rubbed me the wrong way. loved the movie, but i'm by no means saying the movie was perfect, there were aspects that could've been improved on. but rather than looking at the glass half empty and pining for the worst, i'd rather look forward to a better second movie. i couldn't care less if you or your friend didn't like the movie, or even hated it...but i can't see how it's necessary to go around trying to prove everyone else wrong for looking towards a brighter tomorrow.

By the way, nice Shredder signature. Is there more to that picture? And did you make it? I like it!

thanks much. and yeah, i did paint it, and apparently andrew found the full version on dA. but i posted up the 1024 (http://luminoire.net/tmnt/reprisalwall1024.jpg) and 800 (http://luminoire.net/tmnt/reprisalwall800.jpg) wallie version here several weeks ago.

[Slash]

I wasn't trying to say that those who liked were wrong - I was trying to say why I didn't like it. My bad if that got lost in translation.

And your artistic skills are pure talent!

[raphdude]

interesting to know, people like things for different reasons...not that unusual. your previous "group think" blanket statement rubbed me the wrong way. loved the movie, but i'm by no means saying the movie was perfect, there were aspects that could've been improved on. but rather than looking at the glass half empty and pining for the worst, i'd rather look forward to a better second movie. i couldn't care less if you or your friend didn't like the movie, or even hated it...but i can't see how it's necessary to go around trying to prove everyone else wrong for looking towards a brighter tomorrow.



thanks much. and yeah, i did paint it, and apparently andrew found the full version on dA. but i posted up the 1024 (http://luminoire.net/tmnt/reprisalwall1024.jpg) and 800 (http://luminoire.net/tmnt/reprisalwall800.jpg) wallie version here several weeks ago.

Bullet,
I have been a member of Star Wars Forums for years and one thing that I always found fun with SW forums is that there was more of an acceptence of personal opinion, either you could love Phantom Menace or hate it, love Jar Jar Binks or hate him. Unfortunately, I have recently found on this forum to be a "group think" consensus (not everyone) that if you did not love the new movie that you are a bad person who should be silenced or crucified. I do not believe that disliking a particular incarnation of a franchise makes one any less a fan than one who likes it. I have no intention of taking away whatever joy or goosebumps the new film has brought to people, but my opinions are my own and as much as I respect the belief that each human being has a right to his/her opinions, I also have a right to my own.

BTW, I REALLY LIKED your reddescent piece!8) Nice 3D effect of that sai. Looks like you could reach out and grab it! Got a 1024 of that one?:)

[iris]

For the second time, as I clearly state in my post, I am talking about financiers of the theoretical sequel -- not fans.Y'know, Andrew, when you post I can't help picturing Charles Emerson Winchester III from MASH.

http://www.bestcareanywhere.net/img/charles2.jpg

Excepting that Chuckles there would have the grace to know that making his point twenty different ways to twenty different people in a public forum constitutes having adequately stated his piece.

From a strictly financial standpoint, yes. It doesn't make sense to make a movie that will, going by the standard Hollywood rule of thumb, lose millions (i.e., the "sequel will make half of a predecessor" rule of thumb -- I'm not making this up!).Yes, that rule exists, but it generally applies to sequels that are riding on the coattails of summer blockbusters, which is not the operational model here. This is sequel #3. Which was undermarketed. And was still successful. No, not a blockbuster, but was still worth the investment.

I'm not exactly thinking outside the box here. There's no guarantee the same companies will invest again, but there's also no reason to think they wouldn't. We'll just have to wait and see, and according to Murph we may not have long to wait.

There's also no reason to think that the TMNT fans here are overly optimistic just because they're TMNT fans. They're nicely cynical on the whole. They're just not going to be convinced by the round generalities that loosely support one point of view when there are so many factors to consider... not this deep into the conversation anyway....

[Andrew NDB]

Y'know, Andrew, when you post I can't help picturing Charles Emerson Winchester III from MASH.

http://www.bestcareanywhere.net/img/charles2.jpg

Excepting that Chuckles there would have the grace to know that making his point twenty different ways to twenty different people in a public forum constitutes having adequately stated his piece.

That's funny, what with all the name-calling and insulting by the people accusing me of doing such whenever I post an opinion that is not agreed with, I can't help but think of something like this :

http://www.happinessonline.org/images/_749966_crying150.jpg

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2006/07/26/EndTimes.jpg

Yes, that rule exists, but it generally applies to sequels that are riding on the coattails of summer blockbusters, which is not the operational model here. This is sequel #3.

You realize it has been 14 years since TMNT III (doesn't seem like it, I know, does it?)? TMNT (2007) is no more sequel #3 than "Superman Returns" is sequel #4.

Which was undermarketed. And was still successful. No, not a blockbuster, but was still worth the investment.

Summer blockbuster or not has little bearing on the rule... but I can see how that would appear to be the case (it's mostly summer blockbusters that spawn sequels to begin with).

I'm not exactly thinking outside the box here. There's no guarantee the same companies will invest again, but there's also no reason to think they wouldn't. We'll just have to wait and see, and according to Murph we may not have long to wait.

Murph is a straight up sort of guy. If some decision is reached, we'll know about it come June.

There's also no reason to think that the TMNT fans here are overly optimistic just because they're TMNT fans.

No one is saying they are.

They're nicely cynical on the whole. They're just not going to be convinced by the round generalities that loosely support one point of view when there are so many factors to consider... not this deep into the conversation anyway....

Makes sense to me.

[Lone Wolf]

I'll leave this one alone since they aren't talking about your girlfriend. But, maybe you should take a hint and stop crushing people's hopes.

It has nothing to do with crushing anyones hopes. Other people have come out negatively about the movie or the future prospects of the franchise, and they haven't become the objects of such derision.

Andrews trollish behavior has been quite evident from 30 posts into his ignominious participation here, and that is why I for one pointed out his disinterestedness in anything resembling reality in making an argument. Nevermind his obnoxious and complete resolution to shove the same nonsense into everyones face dozens and dozens of times.

Outside of those who make racial or sexual slurs or technically mess with a board, Andrew is one of the biggest brats a forum can suffer.

But hey, maybe we should try to "reason" with him. That is probably what he is interested in, after all.

I have been a member of the 'drome for over four years. I rarely post, nevermind "attack" a person. Over the course of all these years, Andrew is the sole winner of that dubious award. Unfortunately, it seems you still fail to recognize why.

And if you did put me on ignore and can't read this... I guess I'll just say you put the wrong guy on ignore. For the general edification of all reading this, of course. ;)

[Andrew NDB]

"You kind of come off as insulting," "I think it's your attitude," "You talk down to us," this is the kind of vague complaints I'm hearing (in between the insults and childish name-calling hurled at me by these same people), yet no one seems to be able to produce a single example of where I've outright insulted a fan (all right, maybe the last post or so I hurled a fast pitch back to the pitcher, but beyond that).

If publically not liking the movie and doubting the chances for a sequel -- and backing it up with historical fact, reason, and logic, even if a little bluntly -- is hurting certain folks' feelings and making them inexplicably feel "insulted" at every turn, there's really nothing I can do about that.

Could it be these people that are continually finding insult in any public opinion about the new movie that is negative (where there isn't any) are really not all that secure in their own feelings for the film? Just a thought.

[Jo Dawn]

Ok, can we please stop?

I'm highly disappointed in some of you. You all know better. Jumping on people because they have differing opinions than you do.

Some people don't like the movie. That's ok. They're entitled to their opinions. Those that do like it have multiple threads going on and ON about reasons why you love it (I love it, too, just so I clarify). Because a few people are voicing their own opinions and it does not mesh with yours, does not give you right to attack them and say they are insulting.

If someone's differing opinion than yours insults you, then I feel sorry for you. They have the right to show their reasons, too. Just like you do.

Now, either take this to PM or if you have a problem with this, PM me, for goodness sake. But I don't want to see any more of this childish behavior anymore. We're a discussion board, and that means discussing various opinions, not just ONE.

That is all.

[Whitewolf89]

Thank you, Jo Dawn! Finally, a voice of reason here! *pounces/glomps/huggles Jo gratefully*

[Andrew NDB]

Heartily agreed, Jo Dawn. Well said.

[raphdude]

Heartily agreed, Jo Dawn. Well said.

I second that, Jo Dawn. Well stated. Thanks. 8)

[iris]

I actually do think that TMNT IV was viewed by most as a sequel to the other flicks. It's not like Superman where you've had multiple decades and a number of hit series in between. (I don't think it's like Batman either, but for other reasons.) Enough people remember Go Ninja Go as the TMNT film legacy.

That's funny, what with all the name-calling and insulting by the people accusing me of doing such whenever I post an opinion that is not agreed with, I can't help but think of something like this
Dude, just for the record, that happened to be my fave MASH character. I wasn't trying to insult you, but apparently I didn't need to try??????? :p

[Andrew NDB]

I actually do think that TMNT IV was viewed by most as a sequel to the other flicks. It's not like Superman where you've had multiple decades and a number of hit series in between. (I don't think it's like Batman either, but for other reasons.) Enough people remember Go Ninja Go as the TMNT film legacy.

Oh, it should be viewed as a sequel to the film -- creatively, it was always intended to be. But as far as financiers and TPTB are concerned, enough time has passed (14 years) for them to pretty much consider this a relaunch (which it is) and look at it as such.

Dude, just for the record, that happened to be my fave MASH character. I wasn't trying to insult you, but apparently I didn't need to try??????? :p

Oh, my bad. :D

[Janus Prospero]

I hope I'm not reopening any wounds with this post, as it seems it has calmed down somewhat. My intention isn't to stir the pot, so to speak, but there is just something I wanted to say.

But first let me start off my saying I have no beef with you Andrew. You seem like a neat guy. I actually started reading your Ninja Turtles script the other day, and I really like where you’re going with some of the things. I also like it how you made several nods to the classic comic book characters that were missing from the original trilogy.

I’m sorry if you feel that you are being attacked because (a) you don’t like the new movie or (b) a sequel is unlikely in your opinion. I’m fairly new here and I haven’t read through every post here, so I haven’t seen any of this, but if anyone has said anything to that extent, I’d like to think that it is the exception more so than the rule. I could care less if any turtle fan didn’t like the new movie. I’d be a bit surprised, and a bit interested to hear their reasoning, but I certainly wouldn’t look down on anyone that said as much.

I think the biggest issue might be the medium we are communicating through. Without visual and audio cues, it can be hard to effectively communicate across the internet without misrepresenting ourselves. I have fairly thick skin when it comes to chatting on the net, but I do realize that not everyone has that luxury.

Anyway, onto my point. I wanted to address this statement you made:

"You kind of come off as insulting," "I think it's your attitude," "You talk down to us," this is the kind of vague complaints I'm hearing (in between the insults and childish name-calling hurled at me by these same people), yet no one seems to be able to produce a single example of where I've outright insulted a fan (all right, maybe the last post or so I hurled a fast pitch back to the pitcher, but beyond that).

I know these complaints may seem vague to you, but looking at your previous post, I can see where they’re coming from. And if you really want an example, I’d be happy to Dr. Phil the following post of yours. (I’d also like to add, that I’m being sincere here, if that was in question.):

Not bad? An infinitesimal profit after figuring for marketing and distribution costs and what we're looking at is the death rattle of any chance for a sequel (at least, theatrically). Even WB said this film had to break 100 -- and that's just domestically -- before there is a holy hooting hell of a chance.

They'll recoup their production costs, but what about the marketing and distribution costs? And sequels are traditionally expected to only garner half of what a predecessor earned... you think anyone with half a wit about them is going to bank on a TMNT sequel earning only 40 million worldwide?

Not only no, but hell no. With emphasis.

This was in response to Whitewolf's elation of the box office numbers. I feel it could comes off as condescending because rather than address WW's opinion and why you disagree, you disregard her opinion entirely and thus it can come off as disrespectful. Not only that but you reinforce your POV with strong aggressive language such as "death rattle" and "holy hooting hell," This comes off as caustic and it makes it seem like you're saying, "You're an idiot for not seeing this my way."

And even though you see this as your opinion, you are writing it in (as bullet put it) a pseudo authoritative way. Nowhere in your post do you say, "I think...", "I believe...", "IMHO...", etc. So to some people it does look like you're saying, "This is how it is. Deal with it!"

“Not bad? An infinitesimal profit after figuring for marketing and distribution costs and what we're looking at is the death rattle of any chance for a sequel.” summed up looks like, “Not bad? Well it is bad!”

What you should really be going for is, “Not bad? Well it may be worse than you think. Here’s why.”

A more neutral response would have been (My comments are in italics):

Whitewolf, while the TMNT movie did make a large sum of money compared to its production budget, one must also consider additional costs such as marketing and distribution, which are not calculated in with the aforementioned budget. [This opening statement acknowledges, WW’s point, but also brings to light something that she may have not considered.] If one were to compare the final box office against this total budget, you would probably find that the profit margins are much more slim than you imagine. [This statement invites the intended recipient to look at it your way rather than to toss aside her previous ideas.]

As far as a sequel goes, remember that WB has said that they were looking for the movie to make $100 million domestically before green lighting a sequel, and the movie fell about $46 million short of this. Also, keep in mind that sequels are only expected to make half of what the original movie made. [Simple stating of facts here. Nothing wrong with that.] And if you compare the $40 million worldwide expected box office with the $35 million budget of the current movie, to me it doesn't look like we'll be seeing a sequel anytime soon. [The post ends with you stating your opinion. Note how the sentence is worded to show that this is “what you think” in your humble opinion. This tends to go down much better than...“hell no.”]

You may be saying to yourself, “Screw that. I don’t have to pussyfoot around to avoid offending anybody.” Well, that much is true. You don’t have to be careful how you word your sentences. You can spread unfiltered Andrew all over these boards. But don’t be surprised if people complain that you’re talking down to them.

Personally, unless the person I’m responding to is being a complete jerk, I always post as if that person has a gun to my head. I’ve seen flame wars consume enough hours of people's time. The best place to stop them is at the source.

Have a good one.

ETA: Do you actually have a link to your thoughts on the new movie? As I said, I'm actually curious to hear what you have to say.

[Slash]

Glad to see that the peace is finally restored!


I do think the movie needed to add in a mention of when this takes place; after the movies, after the old cartoon show, current 2k3 toon, etc?

[Dragon Turtle]

Glad to see that the peace is finally restored!


I do think the movie needed to add in a mention of when this takes place; after the movies, after the old cartoon show, current 2k3 toon, etc?

The movie takes place after the first three movies, you can see some of the
old "trophies" from the previous movies in one of the last scenes.

[Andrew NDB]

I hope I'm not reopening any wounds with this post, as it seems it has calmed down somewhat. My intention isn't to stir the pot, so to speak, but there is just something I wanted to say.

But first let me start off my saying I have no beef with you Andrew. You seem like a neat guy. I actually started reading your Ninja Turtles script the other day, and I really like where you’re going with some of the things. I also like it how you made several nods to the classic comic book characters that were missing from the original trilogy.

I’m sorry if you feel that you are being attacked because (a) you don’t like the new movie or (b) a sequel is unlikely in your opinion. I’m fairly new here and I haven’t read through every post here, so I haven’t seen any of this, but if anyone has said anything to that extent, I’d like to think that it is the exception more so than the rule. I could care less if any turtle fan didn’t like the new movie. I’d be a bit surprised, and a bit interested to hear their reasoning, but I certainly wouldn’t look down on anyone that said as much.

I think the biggest issue might be the medium we are communicating through. Without visual and audio cues, it can be hard to effectively communicate across the internet without misrepresenting ourselves. I have fairly thick skin when it comes to chatting on the net, but I do realize that not everyone has that luxury.

Anyway, onto my point. I wanted to address this statement you made:



I know these complaints may seem vague to you, but looking at your previous post, I can see where they’re coming from. And if you really want an example, I’d be happy to Dr. Phil the following post of yours. (I’d also like to add, that I’m being sincere here, if that was in question.):



This was in response to Whitewolf's elation of the box office numbers. I feel it could comes off as condescending because rather than address WW's opinion and why you disagree, you disregard her opinion entirely and thus it can come off as disrespectful. Not only that but you reinforce your POV with strong aggressive language such as "death rattle" and "holy hooting hell," This comes off as caustic and it makes it seem like you're saying, "You're an idiot for not seeing this my way."

And even though you see this as your opinion, you are writing it in (as bullet put it) a pseudo authoritative way. Nowhere in your post do you say, "I think...", "I believe...", "IMHO...", etc. So to some people it does look like you're saying, "This is how it is. Deal with it!"

“Not bad? An infinitesimal profit after figuring for marketing and distribution costs and what we're looking at is the death rattle of any chance for a sequel.” summed up looks like, “Not bad? Well it is bad!”

What you should really be going for is, “Not bad? Well it may be worse than you think. Here’s why.”

A more neutral response would have been (My comments are in italics):

Whitewolf, while the TMNT movie did make a large sum of money compared to its production budget, one must also consider additional costs such as marketing and distribution, which are not calculated in with the aforementioned budget. [This opening statement acknowledges, WW’s point, but also brings to light something that she may have not considered.] If one were to compare the final box office against this total budget, you would probably find that the profit margins are much more slim than you imagine. [This statement invites the intended recipient to look at it your way rather than to toss aside her previous ideas.]

As far as a sequel goes, remember that WB has said that they were looking for the movie to make $100 million domestically before green lighting a sequel, and the movie fell about $46 million short of this. Also, keep in mind that sequels are only expected to make half of what the original movie made. [Simple stating of facts here. Nothing wrong with that.] And if you compare the $40 million worldwide expected box office with the $35 million budget of the current movie, to me it doesn't look like we'll be seeing a sequel anytime soon. [The post ends with you stating your opinion. Note how the sentence is worded to show that this is “what you think” in your humble opinion. This tends to go down much better than...“hell no.”]

You may be saying to yourself, “Screw that. I don’t have to pussyfoot around to avoid offending anybody.” Well, that much is true. You don’t have to be careful how you word your sentences. You can spread unfiltered Andrew all over these boards. But don’t be surprised if people complain that you’re talking down to them.

Personally, unless the person I’m responding to is being a complete jerk, I always post as if that person has a gun to my head. I’ve seen flame wars consume enough hours of people's time. The best place to stop them is at the source.

Have a good one.

Thank you for being very objective on this. Rather than try and break down any of this down or argue one thing or another, I'll just say this :

I can be a stubborn person, in my own ways. Hell, I know this. I have my own views and opinions, and at times I can present them rather bluntly, perhaps even to the point where people standing on the opposite spectrum of the view or opinion in question feel as though they need to defend themself. It might just be how I'm wired, but being involved in other fandoms and message boards for these other fandoms, I'm a little unused to this kind of reaction (I don't want to say it only exists in pockets of the TMNT fandom, but I can honestly say it's the only place I've encountered it to date). I can understand that for many TMNT fans, the new movie and the sequel(s) these fans hope it spawns represents a lot to them... and I can also understand that naysaying such to some is a little akin to some random dude at your wedding, when told to "let anyone speak now or forever hold your piece" busts out with, "Hey, I have a problem with this!"

Let's agree to disagree, and cheers. Different views and different voices, styles, even "attitudes" (as long as they don't venture into literally attacks or name-calling, as far as I'm concerned) are great, and should be the bread and butter of any lively discussion board.

ETA: Do you actually have a link to your thoughts on the new movie? As I said, I'm actually curious to hear what you have to say.

Can find them here :
http://www.ninjaturtlesempire.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92

The movie takes place after the first three movies, you can see some of the
old "trophies" from the previous movies in one of the last scenes.

It's obviously presented as at least a loose continuation of the first three films. The only thing that really makes one go "Ehhhh, waittaminute" about that is Splinter's ear, and perhaps the very deliberate (strategic?) crack on the TGRI cannister that makes it impossible to discern whether it says "TGRI" or "TCRI." Probably they just wanted to mostly make it seem, at a glance, to be a possible continuation of other universes if a fan felt so inclined to believe so. Kind of like how Superman Returns, while in its heart a definite sequel to Superman 1 & 2 (if you ask me, it's mostly just a scene-for-scene remake/requel of "Superman: The Motionless Picture"), leaves the actual spoken histories of what's going on vague enough that the average Smallville watcher wouldn't be none the wiser.

In any event, we know it can't be a continuation of the 4Kids stuff because they meet Karai for the first time in this movie. Literally, the only thing it could be a continuation of is the existing films.

[X]

Ok, since no one is listening to me, and any due knowledge I know about the industry, I will go this far.

When a Weinstein says their will be a sequel, there will be a sequel. Hell if Murphy were to come and say there wasn't going to be one, I wouldn't even believe him... Why, because he isn't a Weinstein. Weinstein in Hollywood = power to make things happen.

I will even go this far, and if you guys are peeved at this Andrew dude for his negativity, I will do this. IF THERE ISN'T A SEQUEL, I WILL DIVIDE UP MY GAME COLLECTION, AND MAIL IT TO EVERYONE AROUND THE TECHNODROME FORUMS.

http://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a391/zerox101/Game%20and%20DVD%20Collection/

There's a pic. Maybe I have too much hope for something I don't even care about as much as you fine people, maybe I know the industry and have ties more then anyone here knows, or maybe I know a Weinstein will fish around any future sequel to ANY studio they see fit, and give the finger to whoever tells him(them,) to take a hike. Maybe it's just common sense with TMNT:FF ratings at a supposed all time high in two years, I would guess that means that Season 2 was the last time TMNT saw high ratings, since only 4 seasons had aired on US televisions, and TMNT held it's own against another film from the same studio (not really competeing,) and a disney film, and another retarded Will Ferell movie.

Yea, I pretty much wager what I built for years. Oh yea and let me say this final thing... It's only a matter of time until another TMNT comes to theatres to prove my point, if it doesn't make it by time I'm in there, I'll make the damn film myself.

Let's keep those hopes up, it's bound to happen, and if it doesn't, 4kids took a dump on the franchise for bailing when the bailing got good, Warner took a dump on any future sequel because of their own mistakes, and those two parties never cared to begin with. Just my opinion.

EDIT: Forgot to mention a crapload of kids bought the happy meals but what kid doesn't want a happy meal, the DVD will sell through the roof (with myself alone buying two copies,) and the toys are well stocked and continue to sell briskly in my neck of the woods. Yea pretty much nuff said.

-X-

[Andrew NDB]

I will do this. IF THERE ISN'T A SEQUEL, I WILL DIVIDE UP MY GAME COLLECTION, AND MAIL IT TO EVERYONE AROUND THE TECHNODROME FORUMS.

That's a nice collection, and I'll hold you to that. :)

Can I put dibs on the X-Box 360 Elite?

[X]

Sure thing, but included in my bet is the fact if someone drops the liscense and after I make a name for myself in the industry, I'm gunning for not only a treatment for another film, but maybe even try and get a edgier (aired on the right station,) show up and running. Spawn did it's series fine without needing to rely on toy sales to support the show, that's where these cartoon houses go wrong. Simpsons lasted ages before Playmates threw out a line of toys, and even if the toys were to stop (or already did stop,) being made, the show still stands.

Only time will tell, but glance, salivate, break out the vasoline and get at it, over that Elite. It's yours if another film isn't in the works down the line.

EDIT: Oh one more thing. I nearly nabbed the rights to the Megaman X franchise without a shred of money. Only needed a written proposal, which would involve a nice juicy bit of info, and I could've had it. It's all about what you say, and what you do, that can land you anything you'd like to pursue.

-X-

[SassyGal]

I loved the movie & I actually agree with some of the points made about the movie content itself by Slash, especially the comments about too much story and not enough time to tell it in. I felt like the movie was rushed, but I still enjoyed it. Looking forward to a sequel as long as it's not as blah as TMNT 3 :P

[Warhorse]

Hey, when they posted that 35 million production statement, weren't they also counting the failed attempts at another cgi movie once before? I thought I read that somewhere.:ohwell:

[Andrew NDB]

Hey, when they posted that 35 million production statement, weren't they also counting the failed attempts at another cgi movie once before? I thought I read that somewhere.:ohwell:

Not really possible. It's literally the production budget from WB/the financiers.

If you're referring to the old "John Woo is doing a CGI TMNT movie!" from years ago, that was only talk that got twisted around into something it wasn't -- not a single dollar was spent on this.

[TheAnimatedSeries]

Ok, since no one is listening to me, and any due knowledge I know about the industry, I will go this far.

When a Weinstein says their will be a sequel, there will be a sequel. Hell if Murphy were to come and say there wasn't going to be one, I wouldn't even believe him... Why, because he isn't a Weinstein. Weinstein in Hollywood = power to make things happen.

I will even go this far, and if you guys are peeved at this Andrew dude for his negativity, I will do this. IF THERE ISN'T A SEQUEL, I WILL DIVIDE UP MY GAME COLLECTION, AND MAIL IT TO EVERYONE AROUND THE TECHNODROME FORUMS.

http://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a391/zerox101/Game%20and%20DVD%20Collection/

There's a pic. Maybe I have too much hope for something I don't even care about as much as you fine people, maybe I know the industry and have ties more then anyone here knows, or maybe I know a Weinstein will fish around any future sequel to ANY studio they see fit, and give the finger to whoever tells him(them,) to take a hike. Maybe it's just common sense with TMNT:FF ratings at a supposed all time high in two years, I would guess that means that Season 2 was the last time TMNT saw high ratings, since only 4 seasons had aired on US televisions, and TMNT held it's own against another film from the same studio (not really competeing,) and a disney film, and another retarded Will Ferell movie.

Yea, I pretty much wager what I built for years. Oh yea and let me say this final thing... It's only a matter of time until another TMNT comes to theatres to prove my point, if it doesn't make it by time I'm in there, I'll make the damn film myself.

Let's keep those hopes up, it's bound to happen, and if it doesn't, 4kids took a dump on the franchise for bailing when the bailing got good, Warner took a dump on any future sequel because of their own mistakes, and those two parties never cared to begin with. Just my opinion.

EDIT: Forgot to mention a crapload of kids bought the happy meals but what kid doesn't want a happy meal, the DVD will sell through the roof (with myself alone buying two copies,) and the toys are well stocked and continue to sell briskly in my neck of the woods. Yea pretty much nuff said.

-X-

Sup partner, I'll take any Dreamcast or GBA games off your hands because there will never be another sequel. Cool.

[jenna]

Sure thing, but included in my bet is the fact if someone drops the liscense and after I make a name for myself in the industry, I'm gunning for not only a treatment for another film, but maybe even try and get a edgier (aired on the right station,) show up and running. Spawn did it's series fine without needing to rely on toy sales to support the show, that's where these cartoon houses go wrong. Simpsons lasted ages before Playmates threw out a line of toys, and even if the toys were to stop (or already did stop,) being made, the show still stands.




Hey X - That would be so cool - I hope you get it! What would your vision be? I'd be really interested to hear. You can PM me if the topic is not appropriate for this thread. No need to be specific either if you're not comfortable with sharing your ideas. ;)

[Slash]

The movie takes place after the first three movies, you can see some of the
old "trophies" from the previous movies in one of the last scenes.

Right but wasn't there supposed to be a Triceraton blaster or something of the like?

Oh here: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v686/onelastbroadcast/Relicsfromthepast-CGImovie2007.jpg

Looks like a Mouser and an Utrom defense bot. That's also referencing Mirage/Classic Toon/ and 2k3.

I loved the movie & I actually agree with some of the points made about the movie content itself by Slash, especially the comments about too much story and not enough time to tell it in. I felt like the movie was rushed, but I still enjoyed it. Looking forward to a sequel as long as it's not as blah as TMNT 3 :P

Thanks! I wasn't trying to be a hating monster here but then again, given who I am basing my alas as, no wonder why it gets to be said...

I am still getting the movie and hoping unseen clips help make it better.

[bullet]

BTW, I REALLY LIKED your reddescent piece!8) Nice 3D effect of that sai. Looks like you could reach out and grab it! Got a 1024 of that one?:)

thanks, and yeah. 1024 (http://luminoire.net/tmnt/descent1024.jpg)
haven't the time to fix a problem, though.

[gobo]

We're a discussion board, and that means discussing various opinions, not just ONE.
Hugz@Jo. :D

[Leonardo Mystic]

The movie is still making money. :) As of June 7th, the U.S. total is over $54 million and International is at over $36 for a total of over $90 million worldwide.

It's playing for the third straight week in the discount theatre here (which is very rare, btw, that happens to any movie. Aqua Teen only lasted one week for example) and each time I've been, no matter what time of the day, there's been quite a handful in attendance. So it's still pulling in people.

[R-iZZy]

Does anyone think the movie will at least hit $100 million worldwide before the movie hits DVD?

[Andrew NDB]

Does anyone think the movie will at least hit $100 million worldwide before the movie hits DVD?

No. It's been dead in the water for a couple of months now, flatlined just under 90 million worldwide.

[ToTheNines]

Yea, it won't reach 91 mil.

[R-iZZy]

Damn, that sucks. This movie was gettin' so hyped before its release, too. I guess it was just one of those one-week wonders. This movie deserved better results.

Of course, I'm pretty sure my dream R-rated City At War arc'd movie could bring in the bacon.

[Andrew NDB]

Damn, that sucks. This movie was gettin' so hyped before its release, too. I guess it was just one of those one-week wonders. This movie deserved better results.

Most of the people here seem to believe it was grossly under-marketed.

I'm middle of the road on the marketing/advertisement... they did a decent job, I think (even if I wasn't a TMNT fan, I saw ads for it on my PS3, trailers in theatres, on TV, toys at McDonalds... how much more advertisement do they need, exactly?) but they certainly could have done better. As an adult and diehard Mirage fan I loathe most of the film, but there's really no good reason this movie shouldn't have been a hit with the pre-teen crowd.

Of course, I'm pretty sure my dream R-rated City At War arc'd movie could bring in the bacon.

Preaching to the choir, buddy.

[Spitfire]

Of course, I'm pretty sure my dream R-rated City At War arc'd movie could bring in the bacon.

I'd love that to but a movie like that would be Grindhouse status.

[Andrew NDB]

I'd love that to but a movie like that would be Grindhouse status.

Now that's just silly. Grindhouse failed because it's two disjointed films rolled into one and was almost 4 hours long (nevermind how to properly market such a thing), not because of it's R rating. It could have been G-rated, it still woulda flopped.

[Dragon Turtle]

Yea, it won't reach 91 mil.

I believe it probably already has passed 91 mil, just going by China's
boxoffice(last weeks total seems to be missing), and there are still
a few major markets that TMNT hasn't opened in yet, they could
probably squeeze a few extra million from them.


The movie was never going to make 100 mil domestically, given it was released
during a very crowded market place as well as being under marketed
(no posters or billboards and no hype) If anything, the studio was trying
to get away with the bare minimum as far as marketing is concerned.

[Dragon Turtle]

Damn, that sucks. This movie was gettin' so hyped before its release, too. I guess it was just one of those one-week wonders. This movie deserved better results.

Of course, I'm pretty sure my dream R-rated City At War arc'd movie could bring in the bacon.


R rated movies have their own set of problems when it comes to boxoffice,
nevermind the fact we are talking about an animated movie.

[Andrew NDB]

R rated movies have their own set of problems when it comes to boxoffice,

Depends on the movie, really. Though these may not be the best comparisons, as far as R-rated movies go Passion of the Christ scored $611 million worldwide, Matrix scored $456 million worldwide, Matrix 2 scored $738 million worldwide, Matrix 3 scored $424 million worldwide, Terminator 3 scored 433 million worldwide. Going back further, Totall Recall scored $261 million worldwide...

nevermind the fact we are talking about an animated movie.

True enough. A CGI R-rated movie about teenaged ninja turtles with anime-esque exaggerated humans is really like a niche within a niche. Which is why it really can't be rated R in any kind of a wide release... why not PG-13 (which really only bars 12 year olds and under from seeing it without their mommies or daddies present), with the caveat of an unrated or R cut later on DVD?

[ToTheNines]

Has there ever been a PG-13 animated movie in theatres? It would be cool to see TMNT 2 make that step, but lets not get too far ahead of ourselves with an R rating.

[Andrew NDB]

Has there ever been a PG-13 animated movie in theatres?

Bad example, but "Final Fantasy: Spirits Within" is PG-13.

In any case, all-CGI films haven't really been out long enough to create a precedent either way.

It would be cool to see TMNT 2 make that step, but lets not get too far ahead of ourselves with an R rating.

No one's suggesting an R rating (no one of sound mind for the big picture, anyway), and Munroe even just recently posted here that it didn't sound like they can even push for PG-13 in any sequel. But that's to be expected -- how often do you ever see a sequel earn a higher MPAA rating than its predecessor? You don't. The first movie sets the bar, and then any sequels either keep the status quo or descend into even kiddier territory, not the other way around. By setting the bar at a PG-Pokemon calibre with this first movie, that's the tone you can expect in any sequel.

Best we can hope for is a total reboot in about 8-10 years by a name director with enough name-power to make precisely the movie he wants without being able to be bullied by toy fandanglers and parents angry about nunchuks in random countries.

[gobo]

It's numb-chucks. Gosh! <== Napoleon Dynamite :roll: Impossible to get out of my head...

But, where did Kevin Munroe ever express any doubts for a PG-13 sequel? I never caught any such thing, so it would help if you could point it out for me.

[Andrew NDB]

But, where did Kevin Munroe ever express any doubts for a PG-13 sequel? I never caught any such thing, so it would help if you could point it out for me.

Read the "Front Lines" sticky thread, back maybe 2 weeks ago. He posted something like, "I'm not sure how much we can push for a PG-13 rating."

Holding out hope for a gritty, PG-13 direct sequel to the movie we just got is keeping the common battered wife mentality amongst TMNT fans. "He's gonna change, he's going to be better!" But he never changes, he just keeps on beating. :(

[gobo]

Interesting analogy.

[Splinter's Iroonna]

Interesting analogy.


?????!!!!

You're kidding, right?

[Dragon Turtle]

Bad example, but "Final Fantasy: Spirits Within" is PG-13.

In any case, all-CGI films haven't really been out long enough to create a precedent either way.



I believe the jury is still out as to whether or not the viewing public will embrace
a PG-13 animated movie, but as far as Hollywood execs
are concerned Final Fantasy left a huge crater, and other PG-13 animated
movies (mostly anime movies) are considered nothing more then art house
oddities. Even PG animated action movies are held in low esteem.
It will be interesting to see how Beowulf, a major PG-13 animated movie
being released later this year, performs.


No one's suggesting an R rating (no one of sound mind for the big picture, anyway), and Munroe even just recently posted here that it didn't sound like they can even push for PG-13 in any sequel. But that's to be expected -- how often do you ever see a sequel earn a higher MPAA rating than its predecessor? You don't. The first movie sets the bar, and then any sequels either keep the status quo or descend into even kiddier territory, not the other way around. By setting the bar at a PG-Pokemon calibre with this first movie, that's the tone you can expect in any sequel.




Harry Potter and the Star Wars prequels are recent examples of PG movies
that eventually gained PG-13 sequels. If you can convince the studio
that a movie will make more money as a PG-13 movie, the studio will relent.
Also, I would say TMNT is a bit darker then Pokemon, if they had left the ending
of the Leo and Raph fight unaltered it would have garnered a PG-13 rating.
It's quite easy for animated movie to become a PG-13 movie, its more
difficult keeping that movie a PG-13 movie, given the MPAA's archaic view
on animated movies.

[Leonardo Mystic]

Read the "Front Lines" sticky thread, back maybe 2 weeks ago. He posted something like, "I'm not sure how much we can push for a PG-13 rating."

Holding out hope for a gritty, PG-13 direct sequel to the movie we just got is keeping the common battered wife mentality amongst TMNT fans. "He's gonna change, he's going to be better!" But he never changes, he just keeps on beating. :(

That is a sick reference.

[Kendamu]

That is a sick reference.
Sick, but it works.

[Spitfire]

Please just stop, for everyones sake

[Courk]

Also, I would say TMNT is a bit darker then Pokemon, if they had left the ending of the Leo and Raph fight unaltered it would have garnered a PG-13 rating.

I stopped reading the Raph vs. Leo threads a while ago since they had gotten a bit repetitive. I looked through the last pages here to see if I missed anything. What was altered in the Raph/Leo fight that would have boosted the rating?

[Roseangelo]

I stopped reading the Raph vs. Leo threads a while ago since they had gotten a bit repetitive. I looked through the last pages here to see if I missed anything. What was altered in the Raph/Leo fight that would have boosted the rating?

Raph got a whole lot closer to almost killing Leo than what we saw in the movie:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/147/414534276_2ea19191f8.jpg

[Avatar Yuffie]

Poor Don! He's so overlooked in the movie, he doesn't even get his own screenshot!

Seriously, it sucks to be him.

[ToTheNines]

You guys remember The Mask? It was a kiddy movie with a PG-13 rating (pretty big box office success too).

[gobo]

Was it? I never heard of it until it was on video.

[ToTheNines]

Oh yea, 350 mil. world wide back in 94, but it probably only got a PG-13 for a little cussing and cigarette use.

[Hazel-rah]

Raph got a whole lot closer to almost killing Leo than what we saw in the movie:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/147/414534276_2ea19191f8.jpg

What source is this in? Comic, book adaptation? I am interested in getting what ever version this is in. I have not followed the comics in quite a few years.

[Roseangelo]

What source is this in? Comic, book adaptation? I am interested in getting what ever version this is in. I have not followed the comics in quite a few years.

Those are scans of tradings cards that were a promotional item given out by Kmart back in March.

[gobo]

I believe she meant the Raph/Leo thing.

[Roseangelo]

I believe she meant the Raph/Leo thing.

Dur, I'm a dork... :P

I believe the sai to the eye survived both the novelization and the comic adaptation.

[Hazel-rah]

Dur, I'm a dork... :P

I believe the sai to the eye survived both the novelization and the comic adaptation.

Thanks Roseangelo and gobo. I did mean the Raph/Leo thing.:D So Raph actually stabs Leo in the eye?
Guess I will go online and buy the novelization and comic. I was so trying not to spend any more money on my pop culture obsessions this month. I already spent way to much on Disney's Star Wars Weekends in the last two weeks. I will have to get a second job if this keeps up.

[jenna]

Thanks Roseangelo and gobo. I did mean the Raph/Leo thing.:D So Raph actually stabs Leo in the eye?

No, he was inches away from it, but then realised what he was about to do and softened - what we saw on the film. I believe the only bit that was cut was him raising and poising the sai, but then it would have cut back to what we saw in the final cut.

[Roseangelo]

So Raph actually stabs Leo in the eye?

Nonono... he just points the sai inches away his face. In the final movie he's got it pulled back behind him instead of in Leo's face.

[CJStyles]

Sweet I can't wait for the DVD to see the bonus material....actually that's what I look forward to for almost every DVD but...this is the first movie where we get that for the Turtles in the movie universe

[xmen510]

The Box Office total is now at $92,421,546 as of today. It was just updated a few minutes ago. Thought I'd just let everyone know.

[ToTheNines]

No they didn't.... today is the July 2nd ya know?

[xmen510]

I was on the site and checked. I went back to double check the numbers for posting here and they were at least 20k+ different. They do update as they get the info. After all the movie just opened in some countries over the past few days. In fact it is now $92,471,993.

[ToTheNines]

Oh ok. I thought you meant the daily totals were updated for America and Canada, my bad.

[xmen510]

Not a problem. Since the Studios are no longer tracking on a daily basis, I think the only updates we will see are on the TMNT specific page. I have that one bookmarked since they no longer show the update on the main page. I check that one out every few days (or hours if I'm really bored). Discussion creates knowledge. Now you know, and knowing is half the power.:D

[R-iZZy]

Almost $93 million worldwide still isn't bad. I was hoping for the $100 million mark to be crossed, but I don't think falling $7 million is that bad. Especially for a movie that cost almost 1/3 of what you're raking in. Not bad at all.

[xmen510]

Oversees markets are looking up a bit. The total is now at $92,767,049.:D

Edit: Tuesday July 10th. Updated on Box Office Mojo to $92,856,007.

[Shark_Blade]

That was A LOT :eek:

[xmen510]

It is. It also updated again today with a New Total of $92,880,928. I hope it reaches at least $93M before out of all theatres.

[ToTheNines]

Coolness, I'd be happy to see it make 10 dollars.

[xmen510]

Every penny earned is another penny they can put towards a sequal. Hopefully the sequal will be a direct continuation and not just another random story.

[xmen510]

It is now at $92,895,313.

[gobo]

Oh, right! I can't wait to see how they plan on explaining away Winters's disappearance. ^_^

[iris]

It is now at $92,895,313.
That is one incredibly respectable number.

[Andrew NDB]

That is one incredibly respectable number.

Not if you expect sequels.

[Spitfire]

Not if you expect sequels.

Also have to consider it made 3 times what it cost to make.

It was 30 mil to make I believe I read somewhere.

[Roseangelo]

Please not again... :tdead:

[Andrew NDB]

Also have to consider it made 3 times what it cost to make.

30 million production budget. Marketing and distribution are not included in a production budget and ain't cheap.

[Leonardo Mystic]

Not if you expect sequels.

Dude, ever heard the phrase "if you can't say something nice, don't say nothing at all"? Jeez, for the love of everything that's holy, enough already. The horse is dead, now stop beating it.

[Lone Wolf]

Also have to consider it made 3 times what it cost to make.

It was 30 mil to make I believe I read somewhere.

Don't bother. To be heard by your responder you would have to speak on a frequency that can't be found on Earth.

[Andrew NDB]

The horse is dead, now stop beating it.

Yes, how true.

[Slash]

30 million production budget. Marketing and distribution are not included in a production budget and ain't cheap.

Sadly, I disliked the Transformers movie, but I will admit that the money that movie is making is incredible. But that's because Transformers was smart and hyped the movie. The commercials made the movie look like it was a movie for all ages but aimed more at adults; TMNT commercials looked like a movie with 4 Shreks with shells.

Transformers was hyped to make you feel like if you were going to only see one movie, it better be this. TMNT's commercials looked like you'd get to see this: http://www.showtimetickets.com/images/event/evt918_the_wiggles.jpg

The colors almost go too! ;)

It's a shame that Transformers was marketed in the way that TMNT used to be with the first movies while the new TMNT movie was a barely mentioned Happy Meal toy, lack of tv toy commercials, and not really plastered everywhere.

If TMNT had the push that Transformers had, we wouldn't be fighting like this over and over again. They cheaped out on branding the movie. I'm not blaming Munroe for this. Laird could have saw to it that TMNT was out there more than the Underdog hype. It would have been nice if the current volume was out there, hyping up the movie.

[Youal]

Keep in mind that the box office figures from many countries including France, Spain and Brazil which represent a large chunk of the key foreign market, is not up-to-date on boxofficemojo. I believe TMNT may already cross the 100 million worldwide.

[Courk]

More advertising does not guarantee that a movie will make more money to cover the additional advertising costs. An extra $10 million spent on advertising does not guarantee the movie will make an additional $10 million as a result of that advertising.

Note: The numbers are made up.

[xmen510]

New update for everybody. The new total is $92,899,535. Looking good.:D

[Slash]

New update for everybody. The new total is $92,899,535. Looking good.:D

Still pretty sad that it is only at that when the movie came out in March. :cry:

[Splinter's Iroonna]

*HUGE SIGH*

"Cutthroat Island" had a 98 million dollar budget, excluding advertising (which put it SLIGHTLY over 100 million, btw)-- Released in 1995, by 1996 its lifetime gross was 10 million.

That, my friends, is a FLOP! A BOMB! A MONEY-LOSER!!!

None of the "big blockbusters" of this summer so far have lived up to the predictions. They've made money, but not MONEY-- TMNT did GREAT!Munroe even said in posts elsewhere that the powers that be were happy with the boxoffice. And Munroe's word is good enough for me.

[Dr. Doom]

The movie was by no means breaking any box office record or anything, but it was a success, and that's all they were really looking for. I'm grateful that it did as well as it did, and it'll make a LOT more money on DVD.

[xmen510]

I believe the DVD will sell very well. Even if they said no sequel now, if the DVD does extremely well we still may very well see said sequel. I hope it doesn't come to that though.

And of course another update:

$92,957,361.:D

[ToTheNines]

More good news from Mr. Xmen

[xmen510]

I was just taking a closer look at the BoxOfficeMojo site for the TMNT Movie and I noticed that there is still 1 foreign market that the movie has not even opened in yet. It opens in Spain on August 14th I believe. Lets all hope that there are a LOT of Turtles fans in Spain.:D

[Cascadia]

New update for everybody. The new total is $92,899,535. Looking good.:D

You beat me to it.

Domestic: $54,149,098 58.3%
+ Foreign: $38,808,263 41.7%
= Worldwide: $92,957,361