Star Wars: Episode IX

[Andrew NDB]

Shots fired from JJ to Rian Johnson:

“It was a bit of a meta approach to the story. I don’t think that people go to ‘Star Wars’ to be told, ‘This doesn’t matter,” Abrams bluntly said about Johnson’s movie.

https://www.worldofreel.com/blog/2019/12/star-wars?fbclid=IwAR28SLWRLzsvZIisVObC2Iss_FNrY0w_CV4l O3Od5xGFuPVCzLit3ECKk5U

[AquaParade]

Shots fired from JJ to Rian Johnson:

“It was a bit of a meta approach to the story. I don’t think that people go to ‘Star Wars’ to be told, ‘This doesn’t matter,” Abrams bluntly said about Johnson’s movie.

https://www.worldofreel.com/blog/2019/12/star-wars?fbclid=IwAR28SLWRLzsvZIisVObC2Iss_FNrY0w_CV4l O3Od5xGFuPVCzLit3ECKk5U

Damn. Apparently many people were saving up their true feelings for the press tour of this film.

[IMJ]

Rian Johnson's time in the fire is just beginning. When it comes down to it, he's just a mid-level Hollywood director who's proven to be an asshole, and Star Wars has suffered for it.

What this means is that when TROS suffers you better believe that a Hollywood high roller like Abrams isn't going to sink with that ship. Johnson will be the guy that everyone throws under the bus now that they realize that circling the wagons around a "toxic fan and patriarchy" argument has not excused nor saved what is happening to this IP.

It will be a slow burn, but the consumer can make it move more quickly by basically abandoning the IP even further. Resist your addictions. You don't actually need to financially reward Disney by seeing this new movie.

[Leo656]

I forgot to say, thanks for the link but those "Spoilers" sound fake as hell. Especially "Act III".

Although, some or even most of it might turn out to be true. I remember when Ep. III was about to come out, I found a Spoiler thread that was pretty much 1:1 with how the movie actually turned out, until the third act which was 100% some fanfic BS about Darth Bane and a "Council Of Sith" all appearing without any prior build-up and Vader single-handedly killing them all to prove his loyalty to Sideous and capture Bane's Sith Holocron. That bit was so unbelievable and obviously fake, I was shocked when I saw the movie and the first two acts were exactly like what was in that thread.

Same thing happened with BvS, I remember seeing a thread that was entirely accurate until the Doomsday fight, at which point Black Adam and Green Lantern show up unannounced and Luthor starts zipping around in his Kryptonite Armor and a bunch of other nonsense.

Part of me wonders if people do this so as not to be sued for breaking their non-disclosure agreements. Like, "Hey man, like 25% of what I said was obvious bullsh*t, no sane person would believe that the rest of what I said was true, even though it turned out to be." I have no idea how that stuff works, I just think it's strange how many movie Spoiler threads end up being 99.9% accurate except for the last 20 minutes being obvious fakery.

Guess we'll find out.

[Andrew NDB]

I really think they're intentionally releasing legit spoilers to see what the fans respond to, as they've been shooting and reshooting the ending for a while now, apparently.

[Leo656]

Well yeah, at this point I'm sure that all studios do that for their "blockbuster" movies nowadays so they can "course-correct" on the fly. Focus-groups are notoriously shoddy and outdated as a way of getting feedback from the consumer, so the obvious thing for the studios to do is "leak" things onto the internet and see what the temperature is.

I just think that too much of that thread is very obviously not real.

There is absolutely zero chance that Ben/Kylo gets zapped by Force Lightning or whatever it said and just falls over a railing "never to be seen again". Just for example.

That just HAS to be fake. Up until then, a lot of what I was reading sounded plausible, but that stuff
as well as Luke AND Leia showing up as Force Ghosts to help out at the end just screamed "Bullsh*t!" to me.
Luke, sure, that's almost definitely gonna happen, but Leia? When did they shoot THAT bit, exactly? Nothing about this movie was planned ahead of time, we know that now, so you mean to tell me that they had the foresight to know that Carrie Fisher might die, and therefore had her shoot stuff for a big CGI Force Ghost fight scene to be the trilogy-capper?
No f*ckin' way. Even the stuff they had with her earlier in the "synopsis" fits way too neatly into the rest of the story, considering we know for a fact that it's just old footage from the cutting room floor repurposed into something new. It wouldn't fit in so neatly.

Again, I'm 100% positive that Disney has "leaked" a ton of stuff themselves just to check reactions, and I'm even pretty sure that a lot of what's in that "leak" is probably true, but some of it is definitely, definitely fake.

[Andrew NDB]

There is absolutely zero chance that Ben/Kylo gets zapped by Force Lightning or whatever it said and just falls over a railing "never to be seen again". Just for example.

Apparently that's legit, but he climbs back up to "sacrifice his life energy" to resurrect Rey.

I just really, really hope Rey doesn't blow up the whole Dark Fleet with her Force lightning. That's going to be walk-out-the-theater worthy, if that happens.

[Leo656]

Apparently that's legit, but he climbs back up to "sacrifice his life energy" to resurrect Rey.


I can see that, maybe, but the "leak" explicitly says that they do NOT reappear and that they just get Mace Windu'd.

So yeah, part plausible, part obvious bullsh*t.

[Andrew NDB]

She-Hulk writer blasts JJ for turning on Johnson:

https://cosmicbook.news/she-hulk-writer-f-bombs-jj-abrams-loves-last-jedi?fbclid=IwAR0a74cPjjThtyXHlfKMIlGOe5aP5X--QzO1QR4F7sqECTQfsVZYZw4Sr2E

[Leo656]

She-Hulk writer blasts JJ for turning on Johnson:

https://cosmicbook.news/she-hulk-writer-f-bombs-jj-abrams-loves-last-jedi?fbclid=IwAR0a74cPjjThtyXHlfKMIlGOe5aP5X--QzO1QR4F7sqECTQfsVZYZw4Sr2E

Gee, I wonder if she's also a huge fan of Ghostbusters 2016? :lol:

I'm not sure what it is, but females in general have terrible taste. Like 70% of them at minimum. From Spice Girls to Justin Bieber to Twilight to Chickbusters to The Last Jedi, and so on and so forth. I'unno what it is, but it's definitely a measurable phenomena, and it doesn't help them to be taken any more seriously in the grand scheme of things.

[Vegita-San]

Apparently that's legit, but he climbs back up to "sacrifice his life energy" to resurrect Rey.

I just really, really hope Rey doesn't blow up the whole Dark Fleet with her Force lightning. That's going to be walk-out-the-theater worthy, if that happens.

supposedly that happened in some test screenings. the walk out part. the movie was so bad the test audiences didn't even bother to finish it.

[Sumac]

I don't think someone who likes Snyder movies can say anything about bad taste of others.

That aside, it's more "woke" Holywood women and men are pretending to be extremely progressive. As far as they really think what they say - is questionable.

[ZariusTwo]

Very spoilerish promo spot

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/e9s5uy/new_the_rise_of_skywalker_clip/

[Leo656]

Sigh. Siiiiiiiiigh.

Not only are the trolls around here incredibly predictable to the point you can set your watch to them, they rely on recycled material from 5 or 6 years ago.

Almost as if they have nothing of substance or value to add to anything. Wait... Vapid and devoid of substance with nothing important to say? Like a Taika Waititi movie!

See, I can do it too, I just choose not to. Because I'm not f*cking five.

[Vegita-San]

This trilogy could have been so cool...if they had cared to do star wars from the start.

now it's all just..meh.

[sdp]

The latest trailer gives a reason of how the Emperor was actually in the previous movies, bad retcon but hey, I guess the OT did something similar.
BoOrt05GxuA

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Like a Taika Waititi movie!

I liked "What We Do in the Shadows". Not enough to watch it twice, though.

[IMJ]

That aside, it's more "woke" Holywood women and men are pretending to be extremely progressive. As far as they really think what they say - is questionable.

I have to agree with this. When you truly rally behind a cause you don't spend your time manufacturing the fight. These people are, to use an old phrase, "seeing commies in their sleep" only now it's mysognistic patriarchy at every turn. There is more going on with the last years of SJW nonsense than altruism, absolutely.

[Leo656]

NOTE: This is NOT a "political post", this is a post about celebrities and their hypocrisy that uses their own words against them to prove a point. Just to clarify in advance.
---------------

You know the only celebrity whose opinion on that kinda sh*t I respect at all, believe it or not? Jenna Jameson. "I'm a Republican because I'm rich, when you're rich you want other rich people in power." Makes perfectly logical sense. Even if you don't respect the point of view, you HAVE to respect the honesty.

People like Clooney or Daisy Ridley are like, "Oh, wow, yeah, I probably have way too much money, right? Poor me, by all means, Federal Government, take 60% of my income and redistribute it to people who don't work, that's perfectly reasonable, go ahead and do that anytime you're ready." But they never actually do anything altruistic on their own, right? Like they could literally just take their own money and build hospitals and schools with it, if they feel so "undeserving" of it, they could buy the entire homeless population of San Francisco three meals every single day, start a transportation service for people who can't get around, they could easily pay the legal fees for all the immigrants waiting in line to get into this country the proper way... sh*t, they could let underprivileged people stay in some of the empty rooms in those gigantic mansions of theirs that they're never home to live in because they're too busy playing make-believe halfway around the world... These rich, bleeding-heart celebrities could theoretically solve just about any social problem all by themselves, if they wanted to. They have all the resources and then some. And they're always talking about how "SOMEONE has to DO something!"

But they don't. They don't DO anything. They just wail about how "mean" conservative types are for expecting people to earn a living or obey the laws, and wag their finger at everyone, telling them how they "should" live. "Okay. Lead by example, then. 'DO Something'." As in actual "something", not just speeches and smug lecturing. "Well... I think I'll just wait for the Tax Man to come and take more from me in income tax. Seriously, anytime they're ready, I'm down!" :roll: Meanwhile, even IF that came to pass, they'd just hide more in illegal offshore accounts anyways, like they already do.

It's all for show, and that's what I can't stand. That smug, disgusting pretense of having empathy for other human beings, when the truth is they have MORE resources and do LESS of substance with them than anyone else does. Please Note: I actually don't think anyone is actually obligated to do anything they don't want to. If I don't want to give spare change to a homeless person, I don't have to. I generally do, but that's my own decision, not a moral obligation imposed upon me by outside forces. Likewise, if some movie star doesn't WANT to volunteer at a soup kitchen or convert one of their six palaces into a non-profit homeless or battered womens' shelter, fine, they don't have to, it's their time and money, they can do anything they want to do. I am not my brother's keeper; anyone who chooses to live selfishly rather than altruistically is perfectly within their rights to do so.

But that hypocrisy... "I care, really! I'm a GOOD PERSON, really! Just listen to me wax poetic at the Oscars about how woke and socially responsible I am! Just... y'know... don't ask me to actually inconvenience myself in any way, shape or form or actually do any of the things I'm telling all of you Normal People to do." THAT, I absolutely can't stand.

So yeah, I'm sure some of them are just clueless, but a lot of them probably do just say these things because they're told to by their agents or whomever. They don't actually believe it. Because otherwise it makes no sense that anyone could even look at themselves in the mirror, given that level of hypocrisy.

Life gets really simple once you realize that there's no such thing as "Good People" and everyone's simply out to do whatever's best for themselves. But at least a selfish narcissist who cops to it is being honest. "I'm rich, I want other rich people in power so that I can protect my status." Beautiful. Honest. Respectable. "I'm rich, but I'd gladly pauper myself if it would 'save the world' or help the underprivileged." You're a f*cking liar, go jump in the lake.

In Summation: These people have NO room to lecture anyone at all about "privilege" or social justice or goddamn anything else.

[Andrew NDB]

So I'm hearing....

The only lightsaber fights we get in the movie are more half-hearted ones between Rey and Kylo. They don't actually lightsaber fight the Emperor, though there was a lightsaber fight with him a few versions ago (not anymore).

So so lame, if true.

[IMJ]

Here's the absolute truth regarding the ending of this movie based on what we've been hearing.

The end of this movie is a leftist allusion to their real-life drama of "identifying" with something that they are not, and then inserting themselves into that framework, even if that insertion defies reality.

That is clearly the motivation of the Hollywood extremists who have forced this agenda into the movie. Rey "identifies" as a Skywalker and so she just takes the name and the property, neither of which are actually her nor belongs to her.

[Andrew NDB]

*thinking more about the lightsaber thing*

Damn. Do you guys realize we haven't gotten a single lightsaber fight on screen between two people who know what they're doing for 14 years now? Not one.

Here's the absolute truth regarding the ending of this movie based on what we've been hearing.

The end of this movie is a leftist allusion to their real-life drama of "identifying" with something that they are not, and then inserting themselves into that framework, even if that insertion defies reality.

That is clearly the motivation of the Hollywood extremists who have forced this agenda into the movie. Rey "identifies" as a Skywalker and so she just takes the name and the property, neither of which are actually her nor belongs to her.

Seems about right. "Even the abandoned daughter of some random junk-dealers can rise up and become a SKYWALKER! So can anybody, so can you!"

Although if Palpatine is the "dad" of Anakin and is also the "dad" of Rey, there's kind of a relation there.

[Vegita-San]

he's also the great grand dad of ben, so it's incest all over again with reylo.,

[oldmanwinters]

I've got a bad feeling about this...

[Andrew NDB]

https://i.ibb.co/0Zz6N7y/79413655-522322871829088-2314039898463535104-n.jpg

[CyberCubed]

lol, that is true. I guess it's also maternal instinct. Every person i've seen just wants to cuddle and squeeze baby Yoda like their child. The plush dolls of him will fly off shelves.

[Allio]

Jyn honestly doesn’t fit most of those terms. Her whole story essentially was that she couldn’t alone

[oldmanwinters]

https://i.ibb.co/0Zz6N7y/79413655-522322871829088-2314039898463535104-n.jpg

Meme of the Year finalist

[IMJ]

Jyn honestly doesn’t fit most of those terms. Her whole story essentially was that she couldn’t alone

It's easy to scoop Jyn Erso in there, given the times. And in some ways it's true that she's another token character during the "Cultural Civil War" of America.

But she's also given decent motivation, and is a little more likeable than her cinematic contemporaries maybe because of elements such as that she loves her Dad in a way that is humanizing, or has a mission in the film that brings her to partner with people as opposed to falsely being better than them. So far, Rogue One was best "cineplex Star Wars" that Disney has produced.

[Leo656]

I keep forgetting to actually check that out. I heard a lot of good things, I just haven't been in the mood for Star Wars lately.

[Sumac]

It was an attempt to make Star Wars into serious dark war movie.
Whether you think it is a good idea or not is up to you.

Personally, I don't think shifting genre so hard was a good idea. Its kind of hard to take SW movie 100% seriously, after everything that came before.

[Leo656]

Eh. One would think that a movie/franchise with "War" right there in the title would spend a fair bit of time on the "war" part and less about fussy British robots and sentient teddy bears and stuff like that, anyways. And if the original EU taught us anything, it's that you can tell any kind of story you want in the Star Wars universe, with any kind of focus, scale, or tone, and it can potentially be really good (or really bad). There's no one "right way" to do Star Wars.

That said, the numerical films indeed have generally skewed more juvenile all along, because Lucas was outspoken that they were kids' movies. And that's fine, but I don't think that any piece of fiction or even any movie that's called "Star Wars" should therefore also be a kids movie. If the comics and novels and video games can literally pull off anything from slapstick comedy to horror and everything in between, the films should also be afforded the same opportunity to do things outside of what a "Star Wars Movie" traditionally is or has been.

I mean, "Knights of the Old Republic" is objectively better than anything the film series ever gave us. In some ways it's very similar but in others it's very much different, but as a story and an overall experience it's much more satisfying than simply watching the films. A lot of that would be lost, though, if it had been forced to conform strictly to the tone and style of the films.

Having not seen the film, I can't speak to it, but I definitely don't think it was a bad idea to try and tell some totally different kinds of stories in that universe. Especially as a spin-off. I agree that the main, numbered entries should have a lot more consistency between them but I think the spin-offs can be whatever they want to be.

[CyberCubed]

Shippers going to go crazy

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/shipping/images/4/4f/Reylo.gif/revision/latest?cb=20180513084001

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Shippers going to go crazy

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/shipping/images/4/4f/Reylo.gif/revision/latest?cb=20180513084001

Bow chicka bow wow...

[IMJ]

Shippers going to go crazy

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/shipping/images/4/4f/Reylo.gif/revision/latest?cb=20180513084001

Looks like the class dufus who landed the hottest chick in school and now doesn't know what to do.

[CyberCubed]

It's time like this I forget Adam Driver is 36 years old. :lol:

This guy is pushing 40 in real life yet he's treated as a kid in the movies.

[TommyT]

T2cBTLsWiDg

[Sumac]

It's time like this I forget Adam Driver is 36 years old. :lol:

This guy is pushing 40 in real life yet he's treated as a kid in the movies.
Truth to be told he looks no older than 25.

[sdp]

I'm hyped for shewv Palpatine, such an iconic voice. If somehow this turd can be polished it's him, yeah underneath the sugar coat it'll still be **** but it almost gives it a sense of perhaps.

Can't wait only 3 more days before the meltdown.

[CyberCubed]

I just want to know how Palpatine survived. It's believeable he could survive falling down the chute when Vader threw him over. But then the entire Death Star blows up afterward in space. Are we expected to believe Palpatine quickly got up, found a Tie fighter, and flew out of there?

[sdp]

Obviously it's going to be some sith shenanigans that he transferred his body or his spirit was able to still live but unlike the ghost forces he's a real threat somehow. I mean the old EU brought him back with the clones story where he just transferred his spirit so something along those lines.

The new crappy EU has already been establishing subtly that palps was busy during the OT era finding info on ancient sith artifacts, especially those related to life. And that tv spot has palps talking in Snoke's voice basically retconning Snoke into being palps all along.

It's cheap and superhero comic like but star wars has kinda fallen in that whole, I mean darth maul also somehow survived, and at least before it was only canon in the EU but disney actually had maul in a movie so deaths being cheapened is already a part of this new star wars universe.

[sdp]

How did Kylo get Vader's helmet? How did that one weird alien from TFA get Luke's lightsaber that fell in bespin?

Aren't they going to the deathstar in this movie? Perhaps palpatine's spirit is still there, that's the most likely scenario, that's why they go there, it's where the "evil" that set in motion this trilogy is emanating from and the way to save the galaxy.

I mean this is all speculation I've been spoiler free completely, I only watched the trailers and 2 of the tv spots. It's not going to be a great explanation but whatever, what else can they do with this stain of a trilogy to wrap it up?

Even palpatine's actor basically confirmed they just called him in an interview and said "hey, we were thinking about bringing you back to be able to wrap up this trilogy with the past ones". So it's a half assed attempt but at least it's an attempt they're doing.

[Andrew NDB]

I think the idea is that the Palpatine that died in RotJ was the clone or whatever. This is the real deal, now.

[oldmanwinters]

If Vader came back as a Force Ghost in future movies... what would he look and sound like?

[Andrew NDB]

If Vader came back as a Force Ghost in future movies... what would he look and sound like?

The unused concept art for TFA had him as this half Vader/half Anakin thing. Like he would shift between them and sometimes be both.

[Sumac]

Palps is Love! Palps is Life!
Vote for Senate!

[oldmanwinters]

The unused concept art for TFA had him as this half Vader/half Anakin thing. Like he would shift between them and sometimes be both.

Wow first I'd heard of that!

[Xav]

I think the idea is that the Palpatine that died in RotJ was the clone or whatever. This is the real deal, now.I dunno it kinda makes Vader's redemption pointless as he never really destroyed the Sith like he was supposed to. It also begs the question if Palpatine has been alive alive for the last 35 years than why did he wait until now to reveal himself?

[Andrew NDB]

I dunno it kinda makes Vader's redemption pointless as he never really destroyed the Sith like he was supposed to. It also begs the question if Palpatine has been alive alive for the last 35 years than why did he wait until now to reveal himself?

It also makes his "grand plan" a pretty sh**ty one. Like... OK, I'm going to force a civil war with the Separatists, create an Empire of which I'm now Emperor of... wipe out the Jedi, sit on the throne forever -- it all tracks so far -- but then... let my apprentice kill me, let a New Republic take over while my First Order waits for reinforcements from my secret fleet 35 years later? Why even do that at all?

I think what's going to arise is that Anakin was his eyed "Chosen One," but in RotJ he realized he wasn't, so he went into a waiting game until the real "Chosen One" showed up. Or something. It doesn't really work.

I can confirm Palpatine is on life support in that chair. And it's him. Also Rey and Kylo confronting him, both with blue lightsabers. I've seen screencaps of all of this.

[Andrew NDB]

https://i.ibb.co/5hDLPms/79334852-2574098659349419-3577769721061179392-n.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/cFyXVXB/80190370-849507042169348-1737010423770644480-n.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/HrTbkSq/79303081-476010723321198-6126623272667709440-n.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/cbxsqQJ/79905902-790282294777567-8392827547670282240-n.jpg

[ZariusTwo]

John Campea didn't like the movie.

Can I enjoy it just for that alone?:lol:

[AquaParade]

John Campea didn't like the movie.

Can I enjoy it just for that alone?:lol:

He saw Justice League, like, 6 times, so there is no telling with him.

[Andrew NDB]

https://i.ibb.co/z60GjTz/ss1.jpg

Eh... this is really the way they want to market the movie?

[IMJ]

Just a point to consider - Only a true, true nerd would be directly insulted by Disney and their constituents, be told off and likened to the worst of humanity by Rian Johnson after paying him; and still pay to go see The Rise of Skywalker.

That's like the kid who gives the school bully his lunch money, then gets slapped in the face and afterwards still tries to friend up to the POS who violated him.

Resist your addictions people. Money talks.

[Sumac]

This poster and slogan are really something.
I wonder was it unintentional or not?

[Andrew NDB]

This poster and slogan are really something.
I wonder was it unintentional or not?

They're just throwing stuff out there, seemingly. "Just make it say something about identity!"

Look at this:

https://i.ibb.co/YbbpcvM/pin.jpg

That's an actual paid ad on Facebook. How is that supposed to make me want to see the movie? So it's either "question your identity!" or "It's the VERY LAST one!"? That's it? Those are the only ways they want to market this movie?

[IMJ]

That's because the actual last word of the movie is "Skywalker" when she says "my name is Ray, Ray Skywalker".

It's a travesty and they think they are being clever by wearing it out in the open in ads.

[sdp]

I think I'm just head in the Star Wars hate cycle, most didn't hate TFA until TLJ or at least Rogue One, that's when the tide began to change, people were just in denial until TLJ happened. As bad as TLJ is, the biggest flaw is the one inherited from TFA which is just rebels vs empire v.2.0. After a few months/year of TLJ even most who defended are now on the other side, however now TROS is getting mixed reviews even with all the pro disney machine going on. I can only imagine things will get ugly.

I'm already passed that, this trilogy sucks, I'm hoping to get some cool scenes, and that's it. They can't possibly make this trilogy good, but I don't want this movie to suck, I want it to be good and the movie isn't going to do bad no matter how much I want it, it'll still do amazing numbers because it's the last one and everyone haters and lovers will watch it just to see what it is.

I can't wait to see the movie, I'm spoiler free for the most part and can't wait to see what the hell they do, I'm genuinely curious. End of an era. I can still love certain aspects of star wars and for me any new movies will be treated the same way I treated the old EU. I would read the titles that interested me and the others I ignored because they were silly fanfic crap. Disney could've had something special with star wars but oh well, at least I can still enjoy the franchise. I've come along way since my meltdowns in Episode VII and Episode VIII threads :lol:

[Leo656]

I, personally, don't have a big problem with "Rebels vs. Empire" being recycled or rehashed. That's not my problem with the new flicks. It's always going to come back around to some variation of that, even if the names of the "Empire" and "Rebellion" are occasionally changed or updated or whatever. As I've said before, "War" is right there in the franchise title, and "scrappy underdogs" vs. "supreme overlords" is a pretty universal theme. It lends itself great to just about any story because the "Big Bullies vs. The Oppressed" doesn't require a whole lot of exposition or backstory to explain or set up. You can jump into the middle of the story and still know, essentially, what's going on. And right down to an individual level, every single person is, in some way, either the Bully or the Victim, so it's a concept that speaks to people fundamentally. Sure, there are other stories about War that you can utilize, but the simplest approach is usually the best.

No, my problem is that the Sequel Trilogy had three important jobs to do:
1. Give the old cast of characters a proper and satisfying send-off.
2. Introduce new, well-defined characters that can take the place of the originals going forward without upsetting too many people.
3. Handle the "passing of the torch" from Old to New in a graceful and satisfying way.

They failed miserably with ALL THREE. I mean, I liked TFA more than most people did; I understood why they had to play it safe and I thought they did a reasonably good job. I liked the new characters just fine, BUT I was hopeful that the upcoming films would flesh them out more, give them some good material to work with... but they didn't do that. Just "identity politics" nonsense and Ma-Rey Sue (and Lord, I *hate* the term "Mary Sue", because I feel like ANY Original Character nowadays gets slapped with that label just by existing, and it unfairly limits a writers' ability to create new characters, so I don't use it lightly). I liked Poe in TFA, but by the end of TLJ I wanted him dead. I was a big fan of Rey in TFA, I saw a lot of potential... all wasted in the sequel. Like literally, everyone I liked in the first flick, I was sick of by the end of the second. And that's due to piss-poor writing. The actors are fine.

And then there's the horrible way they handled the original cast. Not even ONE goddamn scene of Luke, Han, Leia and Chewie together, give or take a Lando? COME ON, that's the very first thing they should have thought of doing. I know Abrams has apologized for dropping the ball on that, but it's not really even his fault, it's the fault of his Corporate Overlords at Disney who told him not to worry too much about the original cast because they're not who's important. And now, they wasted the chance, and since Carrie Fisher had to go and do what Carrie Fisher does (read: Drugs), we'll never, EVER get to see the one and ONLY thing anyone actually WANTED to see in these f*cking sequel movies!

And forget "Passing the torch", that was more like the bum's rush. "Get off the stage, Grandpa, these kids don't wanna see YOU, they're here to see Daisy Ridley get all sweaty, you're just the garnish." Horrible. And to tell the fans who didn't like it that THEY were the problem? Unacceptable. I know these films - like the Prequels - were always going to face a backlash, simply because the fans have been writing all three movies in their heads for the last few decades - like the Prequels! - but it didn't have to be THIS bad.

So yeah... that's my problem. Not that TFA was a little bit too familiar, or that the entire plot of "Rebels vs. Empire" is essentially recycled. To some degree, that stuff was inevitable and unavoidable. "There's only so many basic plots", etc. etc. But they had a very simple job to do and COMPLETELY f*cked it up by making the wrong things a priority.

In 40 years, Luke Skywalker will still sell ten times as many action figures as Rey "Skywalker". Could've been about even, but they f*cked it up.

[IMJ]

I, personally, don't have a big problem with "Rebels vs. Empire" being recycled or rehashed. That's not my problem with the new flicks. It's always going to come back around to some variation of that, even if the names of the "Empire" and "Rebellion" are occasionally changed or updated or whatever. As I've said before, "War" is right there in the franchise title, and "scrappy underdogs" vs. "supreme overlords" is a pretty universal theme. It lends itself great to just about any story because the "Big Bullies vs. The Oppressed" doesn't require a whole lot or exposition of backstory to explain or set up. You can jump into the middle of the story and still know, essentially, what's going on. And right down to an individual level, every single person is, in some way, either the Bully or the Victim, so it's a concept that speaks to people fundamentally. Sure, there are other stories about War that you can utilize, but the simplest approach is usually the best.

No, my problem is that the Sequel Trilogy had three important jobs to do:
1. Give the old cast of characters a proper and satisfying send-off.
2. Introduce new, well-defined characters that can take the place of the originals going forward without upsetting too many people.
3. Handle the "passing of the torch" from Old to New in a graceful and satisfying way.

They failed miserably with ALL THREE. I mean, I liked TFA more than most people did; I understood why they had to play it safe and I thought they did a reasonably good job. I liked the new characters just fine, BUT I was hopeful that the upcoming films would flesh them out more, give them some good material to work with... but they didn't do that. Just "identity politics" nonsense and Ma-Rey Sue (and Lord, I *hate* the term "Mary Sue", because I feel like ANY Original Character nowadays gets slapped with that label just by existing, and it unfairly limits a writers' ability to create new characters, so I don't use it lightly). I liked Poe in TFA, but by the end of TLJ I wanted him dead. I was a big fan of Rey in TFA, I saw a lot of potential... all wasted in the sequel. Like literally, everyone I liked in the first flick, I was sick of by the end of the second. And that's due to piss-poor writing. The actors are fine.

And then there's the horrible way they handled the original cast. Not even ONE goddamn scene of Luke, Han, Leia and Chewie together, give or take a Lando? COME ON, that's the very first thing they should have thought of doing. I know Abrams has apologized for dropping the ball on that, but it's not really even his fault, it's the fault of his Corporate Overlords at Disney who told him not to worry too much about the original cast because they're not who's important. And now, they wasted the chance, and since Carrie Fisher had to go and do what Carrie Fisher does (read: Drugs), we'll never, EVER get to see the one and ONLY thing anyone actually WANTED to see in these f*cking sequel movies!

And forget "Passing the torch", that was more like the bum's rush. "Get off the stage, Grandpa, these kids don't wanna see YOU, they're here to see Daisy Ridley get all sweaty, you're just the garnish." Horrible. And to tell the fans who didn't like it that THEY were the problem? Unacceptable. I know these films - like the Prequels - were always going to face a backlash, simply because the fans have been writing all three movies in their heads for the last few decades - like the Prequels! - but it didn't have to be THIS bad.

So yeah... that's my problem. Not that TFA was a little bit too familiar, or that the entire plot of "Rebels vs. Empire" is essentially recycled. To some degree, that stuff was inevitable and unavoidable. "There's only so many basic plots", etc. etc. But they had a very simple job to do and COMPLETELY f*cked it up by making the wrong things a priority.

In 40 years, Luke Skywalker will still sell ten times as many action figures as Rey "Skywalker". Could've been about even, but they f*cked it up.

This was probably your most articulate and well argued post ever.

[Leo656]

This was probably your most articulate and well argued post ever.

I appreciate that, but I still stand by everything I've said about Melissa Benoist's gash. :lol:

[Andrew NDB]

That's because the actual last word of the movie is "Skywalker" when she says "my name is Ray, Ray Skywalker".

That brings up another thing. When they announced the subtitle of IX with that first trailer and everyone -- even us, here -- was like, "Rise of Skywalker...? What does that MEAN?" And we'd throw around credible theories how maybe it could mean what replaces the Jedi Order (i.e., if you're a Force user and good and part of that order, you're a Skywalker not a Jedi), or maybe someone(s) is revealed to be part of the Skywalker lineage and there's a riseup... or any one of a dozen or more interesting theories.

How pathetic is it that of all of those theories and what the title could mean, JJ went with literally the simplest, dumbest of all?

I think I'm just head in the Star Wars hate cycle, most didn't hate TFA until TLJ or at least Rogue One, that's when the tide began to change, people were just in denial until TLJ happened. As bad as TLJ is, the biggest flaw is the one inherited from TFA which is just rebels vs empire v.2.0. After a few months/year of TLJ even most who defended are now on the other side, however now TROS is getting mixed reviews even with all the pro disney machine going on. I can only imagine things will get ugly.

I'm already passed that, this trilogy sucks, I'm hoping to get some cool scenes, and that's it. They can't possibly make this trilogy good, but I don't want this movie to suck, I want it to be good and the movie isn't going to do bad no matter how much I want it, it'll still do amazing numbers because it's the last one and everyone haters and lovers will watch it just to see what it is.

I can't wait to see the movie, I'm spoiler free for the most part and can't wait to see what the hell they do, I'm genuinely curious. End of an era. I can still love certain aspects of star wars and for me any new movies will be treated the same way I treated the old EU. I would read the titles that interested me and the others I ignored because they were silly fanfic crap. Disney could've had something special with star wars but oh well, at least I can still enjoy the franchise. I've come along way since my meltdowns in Episode VII and Episode VIII threads :lol:

A pretty level-headed way of looking at things. And you're right, even the initial fans of TLJ have spun around the other way, or at the very least now know it's fairly indefensible.

That's about all I'm "hoping" for -- some good scenes, scattered about. Moments. Just about everything I'm reading about "Rise of Skywalker" reads pretty terrible on paper... however, the execution on screen with a John Williams score behind it might be something else entirely.

I, personally, don't have a big problem with "Rebels vs. Empire" being recycled or rehashed. That's not my problem with the new flicks. It's always going to come back around to some variation of that, even if the names of the "Empire" and "Rebellion" are occasionally changed or updated or whatever. As I've said before, "War" is right there in the franchise title, and "scrappy underdogs" vs. "supreme overlords" is a pretty universal theme. It lends itself great to just about any story because the "Big Bullies vs. The Oppressed" doesn't require a whole lot of exposition or backstory to explain or set up. You can jump into the middle of the story and still know, essentially, what's going on. And right down to an individual level, every single person is, in some way, either the Bully or the Victim, so it's a concept that speaks to people fundamentally. Sure, there are other stories about War that you can utilize, but the simplest approach is usually the best.

No, my problem is that the Sequel Trilogy had three important jobs to do:
1. Give the old cast of characters a proper and satisfying send-off.
2. Introduce new, well-defined characters that can take the place of the originals going forward without upsetting too many people.
3. Handle the "passing of the torch" from Old to New in a graceful and satisfying way.

They failed miserably with ALL THREE. I mean, I liked TFA more than most people did; I understood why they had to play it safe and I thought they did a reasonably good job. I liked the new characters just fine, BUT I was hopeful that the upcoming films would flesh them out more, give them some good material to work with... but they didn't do that. Just "identity politics" nonsense and Ma-Rey Sue (and Lord, I *hate* the term "Mary Sue", because I feel like ANY Original Character nowadays gets slapped with that label just by existing, and it unfairly limits a writers' ability to create new characters, so I don't use it lightly). I liked Poe in TFA, but by the end of TLJ I wanted him dead. I was a big fan of Rey in TFA, I saw a lot of potential... all wasted in the sequel. Like literally, everyone I liked in the first flick, I was sick of by the end of the second. And that's due to piss-poor writing. The actors are fine.

And then there's the horrible way they handled the original cast. Not even ONE goddamn scene of Luke, Han, Leia and Chewie together, give or take a Lando? COME ON, that's the very first thing they should have thought of doing. I know Abrams has apologized for dropping the ball on that, but it's not really even his fault, it's the fault of his Corporate Overlords at Disney who told him not to worry too much about the original cast because they're not who's important. And now, they wasted the chance, and since Carrie Fisher had to go and do what Carrie Fisher does (read: Drugs), we'll never, EVER get to see the one and ONLY thing anyone actually WANTED to see in these f*cking sequel movies!

And forget "Passing the torch", that was more like the bum's rush. "Get off the stage, Grandpa, these kids don't wanna see YOU, they're here to see Daisy Ridley get all sweaty, you're just the garnish." Horrible. And to tell the fans who didn't like it that THEY were the problem? Unacceptable. I know these films - like the Prequels - were always going to face a backlash, simply because the fans have been writing all three movies in their heads for the last few decades - like the Prequels! - but it didn't have to be THIS bad.

So yeah... that's my problem. Not that TFA was a little bit too familiar, or that the entire plot of "Rebels vs. Empire" is essentially recycled. To some degree, that stuff was inevitable and unavoidable. "There's only so many basic plots", etc. etc. But they had a very simple job to do and COMPLETELY f*cked it up by making the wrong things a priority.

In 40 years, Luke Skywalker will still sell ten times as many action figures as Rey "Skywalker". Could've been about even, but they f*cked it up.

I agree with all of this except the "inevitability" of seeing Empire vs. Rebels again. That's ludicrous. Before TFA, half of the movies weren't even about that (well, the first three episodes had Republic vs. Rebels of a sort, but the perspective was flipped from the OT and it wasn't a huge part of events). The basic premise, sure, of a story wrapping around a small group of characters that go up against seemingly an insurmountable enemy... but that doesn't mean Empire vs. Rebels again. That could be many things. It could be a civil war within the New Republic, it could be that now that the New Republic is in peacetime and has no real problems anymore (sort of like us, now), zealots start preaching about the Sith Order and start getting recruits and terrorists/saboteurs start doing bad business... right when Darth Plagueis returns! Hell, it could even be the hackneyed thing about a new alien threat emerging in the galaxy.

I think the thing JJ is getting fundamentally wrong about VII-IX, particularly about IX, is that he's approaching it as "the end of the trilogy of trilogies" and "the end of the Skywalker saga." It never needed to be that. VI wrapped up everything that needed to be wrapped up (like, literally... Lucas combined all of the biggest original ideas he had for VII-IX and packed them into VI with a ribbon), so anything after that should be looked at as overtime in "the Skywalker saga." Which is fine, but let's not pretend this is the wrapup of some overarching thing... it's not. I mean, they're suddenly trying to make it that in the third part in the latest trilogy, but that doesn't retroactively make VII and VIII that. It's insulting.

And is it just me, or is it a little bit annoying to be told that we're supposed to look at the numerical movies as "the Skywalker saga" now? And that "this is the definitive END of the Skywalker Saga!" I never looked at it as the Skywalker saga. I mean, I-VI were BASICALLY that, sure. And maybe a Skywalker presence would and should always factor into the core saga on some level, but it wasn't like I'd expect Episode XVII to be about Gordo Skywalker, Jedi Knight. It's the Star Wars episodic saga, same as the serials of yore. It ought to go on and it shift/evolve into this or that.

Also, does the whole sudden push to end the Skywalker family saga and line smack to anyone else of JJ and company drinking the internet/Youtube Kool-Aid about "The Star Wars saga is all about how the galaxy has to pay the price for one selfish family's choices!"? Sort of like how Cobra Kai went and ran with the whole "Daniel was a bully!" thing that was floating about? But where Cobra Kai did something amazing and ironic with that, this reeks of Kennedy and company deciding that the Skywalker family is "problematic" in 2019, as they continue (trying to) growing the brand. I hate to think Disney is ruling out an Episode X in 5-10 years (which we know we will get regardless) simply because of that.

[Leo656]

I agree with all of this except the "inevitability" of seeing Empire vs. Rebels again. That's ludicrous. Before TFA, half of the movies weren't even about that (well, the first three episodes had Republic vs. Rebels of a sort, but the perspective was flipped from the OT and it wasn't a huge part of events). The basic premise, sure, of a story wrapping around a small group of characters that go up against seemingly an insurmountable enemy... but that doesn't mean Empire vs. Rebels again. That could be many things. It could be a civil war within the New Republic, it could be that now that the New Republic is in peacetime and has no real problems anymore (sort of like us, now), zealots start preaching about the Sith Order and start getting recruits and terrorists/saboteurs start doing bad business... right when Darth Plagueis returns! Hell, it could even be the hackneyed thing about a new alien threat emerging in the galaxy.

I mean, fair point, but on one hand, any of those things would probably require a lot more exposition to catch people up, and also, I really think that Disney was banking on attracting a lot of first-timers to the franchise with these movies, and on that, they've actually succeeded tremendously. I mean, look at who likes TFA and TLJ the most out of anyone: People (mostly female) who had never given the franchise the time of day before, for one reason or other, BUT they jumped in with the new ones and think they're brilliant, while also thinking that "The Old Movies" are overrated as hell.

Those people generally only knew a few things about Star Wars before jumping in: Vader is Luke's father, and that there's "an Empire" and there's "Rebel Scum". So you almost have to keep a few things "the same" as the old movies so that even neophytes who just came to the party now don't feel completely lost. "Okay, so the First Order is the new 'Empire' and the Rebels, are... the Rebels." Yeah it's recycled, it's "lazy", it's whatever... but if your buddy who doesn't know anything asks you what's going on, you can bring them completely up to speed in five seconds in less than three sentences.

It might not be to everyone's taste, and yes, there are definitely other stories they could have told, but frankly, I never, ever, ever expected anything different, right from the first announcement several years ago. I mean, I read enough of the Dark Horse comics at one point to know that "Rebels vs. Empire" is pretty much the only idea any "professional" writer is ever going to tell in a post-New Hope setting. Any "bad guys" are simply replacing the Empire and trying to usurp Palpatine's position/finish what he started. And I mean, why wouldn't they? Like, even in-story, the end of RotJ was mostly symbolic; it's not like Nazis aren't still a persistent and enduring thing just because Hitler died. Luke and Co. scored a very important personal victory and struck a huge blow to the Empire, but that's the thing about Empires, you cut off one head and there's like eight more. Sith Lord or no, you don't win a war by killing One Guy. As Wonder Woman found out the hard way in her movie. :trazz:

That's why any stories in the comics that tried to move past "Rebels vs. Empire" were always set, like, hundreds or thousands of years into the future, post-RotJ. It would take a loooong time for that conflict to resolve itself, Palpatine or no Palpatine. TFA was like, what, how many years later? 30-40? No, yeah, we're still firmly in the timeframe where the Empire would still exist, even as a shadow of its former self.

So part of it is, I was already used to the idea, having seen it done and re-done so many times, but even when Disney scrapped the old EU, I knew it was going to be Empire vs. Rebels again. But also because a couple of decades just isn't enough time to expect this great big huge "Evil Empire" to dissolve away - especially if we're in a timeline where Luke never successfully managed to establish a New Jedi Order and Leia never fully managed to establish The New Republic and turn it into anything meaningful.

I'm still kind of surprised that anyone expected anything but "Rebels vs. Empire, XX Years Later." I knew that's what we were getting way before they told us. It's the only thing that made sense.
---------------------

Everything else you said I agree with, pretty much.

[Andrew NDB]

I mean, fair point, but on one hand, any of those things would probably require a lot more exposition to catch people up, and also, I really think that Disney was banking on attracting a lot of first-timers to the franchise with these movies, and on that, they've actually succeeded tremendously. I mean, look at who likes TFA and TLJ the most out of anyone: People (mostly female) who had never given the franchise the time of day before, for one reason or other, BUT they jumped in with the new ones and think they're brilliant, while also thinking that "The Old Movies" are overrated as hell.

I guess I can't argue with the box office, but I personally don't know even 1 Star Wars fan who became a Star Wars fan specifically because of TFA or TLJ.

"Okay, so the First Order is the new 'Empire' and the Rebels, are... the Rebels." Yeah it's recycled, it's "lazy", it's whatever... but if your buddy who doesn't know anything asks you what's going on, you can bring them completely up to speed in five seconds in less than three sentences.

Star Wars deserved better than that. And the First Order should be the Rebels, if anything. The "Rebels" took over the Empire and made the New Republic.

Luke and Co. scored a very important personal victory and struck a huge blow to the Empire, but that's the thing about Empires, you cut off one head and there's like eight more. Sith Lord or no, you don't win a war by killing One Guy. As Wonder Woman found out the hard way in her movie. :trazz:

Except that's not what they told us happened. The Rebel Alliance scored a decisive victory over the Empire, formed the New Republic, took over all of the Empire's worlds, and left their two or three Star Destroyers crawling away. Then the New Republic became pacifistic and the voices that said, "Hey, the Empire is probably still working on kicking our asses!" became shunned and formed "The Resistance." But it was a resistance against the New Republic's pacifism, toward armament and strategic readiness for whatever the Imperial remnants may come at them with... not LITERALLY the First Order, who they didn't even know for sure would be coming.

Rian Johnson forgot all of this with TLJ or just didn't care. It really bothers me the moment where Boyega's character is, like, proudly even, proclaiming "We're Rebels!!!"

NO, you're not, you idiot. That was the OT. The First Order are the Rebels. Like, they're literally rebelling against the ruling government. You guys are just defending yourselves.

That's why any stories in the comics that tried to move past "Rebels vs. Empire" were always set, like, hundreds or thousands of years into the future, post-RotJ. It would take a loooong time for that conflict to resolve itself, Palpatine or no Palpatine.

My old EU knowledge is fuzzy now, but I seem to remember a straight-up armistice being signed with Pellaeon in books that took place about 10 years after Endor. Not 30, not 40, not 300.

I'm still kind of surprised that anyone expected anything but "Rebels vs. Empire, XX Years Later." I knew that's what we were getting way before they told us. It's the only thing that made sense.

It was the only thing that made sense when we knew Disney would be calling the shots, I think, in retrospect.

[Leo656]

I guess I can't argue with the box office, but I personally don't know even 1 Star Wars fan who became a Star Wars fan specifically because of TFA or TLJ.



Star Wars deserved better than that. And the First Order should be the Rebels, if anything. The "Rebels" took over the Empire and made the New Republic.



Except that's not what they told us happened. The Rebel Alliance scored a decisive victory over the Empire, formed the New Republic, took over all of the Empire's worlds, and left their two or three Star Destroyers crawling away. Then the New Republic became pacifistic and the voices that said, "Hey, the Empire is probably still working on kicking our asses!" became shunned and formed "The Resistance." But it was a resistance against the New Republic's pacifism, toward armament and strategic readiness for whatever the Imperial remnants may come at them with... not LITERALLY the First Order, who they didn't even know for sure would be coming.

Rian Johnson forgot all of this with TLJ or just didn't care. It really bothers me the moment where Boyega's character is, like, proudly even, proclaiming "We're Rebels!!!"

NO, you're not, you idiot. That was the OT. The First Order are the Rebels. Like, they're literally rebelling against the ruling government. You guys are just defending yourselves.



My old EU knowledge is fuzzy now, but I seem to remember a straight-up armistice being signed with Pellaeon in books that took place about 10 years after Endor. Not 30, not 40, not 300.



It was the only thing that made sense when we knew Disney would be calling the shots, I think, in retrospect.

I don't speak to too many personally, but whenever I see comments on any articles about the newer movies, the ones who praise them the loudest openly declare that they never bothered with Star Wars until TFA or TLJ were released. Either those were the first ones they ever watched, OR they only decided to get into it now upon their release and maybe watched the older movies once each to quickly catch up before going to the theater for the new ones. So they've seen them, but don't idealize them as older fans do, and some outright say they're lousy, but at the very least "Nothing special", while the newer ones are "brilliant", especially TFA.

They tend to be predominantly female, have a strong dislike for Luke, and feel like Lucas screwed up by not making Leia the star of the original trilogy. So again, I don't speak to many of those people in daily life - I generally avoid talking to people with such awful opinions :lol: - but they exist, for sure. They definitely managed to attract a lot of New Fans with the last two movies, they just also pushed away a lot of older fans.

And again, I hear you, but to some level you have to dumb things down for mass appeal. Technically, yes, the First Order should be the Rebels, but it's easier to just gloss over that and look at it as "Taking up where the Empire left off, sharing their values and their technology = Empire." The rest is just a semantic argument.

You can't make these things too complicated. I mean, remember how badly people reacted to all the stuff about "trade disputes" and "blockades" and "Imperial Senates" and all that in the Prequels? I remember tons of people loudly declaring, "I don't care HOW it started, I just want to get to Empire vs. Rebels already." The more you have to explain How We Got Here, the more you risk losing people. They just went with the easiest thing. Sure, they could have done something 100% fresh, but... well, like you said, the box office speaks for itself. Not everyone loves the way TFA presented itself as "Everything You Loved About The Original Trilogy, With 0% Of That Prequel Junk", but whether it was creatively-bankrupt or not, it was, objectively, the right move. The follow-through was the problem, not the set-up.

And I admit I haven't read even half of the comics (and about, like two of the novels) from the old EU, but what I remember most was the Republic always trying to firmly establish a foothold and some remnant of the Empire always rising up to try and take over again. Maybe that did finally settle itself out, but for the most part only the names of the organizations on either side changed, the rest was fundamentally the same.

I mean, it's just Bullies vs. Underdogs. Do we NEED 80 pages of explanation as to the Who, How, and Why? Or can't it just be, "Yeah, it's kinda the same as last time, just different people?" Because the latter is how you make a billion and a half worldwide. It is what it is.

[Leo656]

As I'd guessed, most recent Spoilers coming out actually confirm that about 2/3s to 3/4s of the earlier leaks are dead-on, but a lot of the stuff supposedly from the last half hour or so were BS. Or, as in some Spoilers, the first huge chunk of stuff was fake and the ending was legit.

Makes me wonder how much of all of it maybe had been true, before the reshoots were finished.

Either way, sounds... eh, I'unno. Definitely better than the last one, but that's a very low bar. And some of it sounds cooooooorny. Especially the ending, as in the last scene. I mean, that was the one thing everyone agreed was legit since the beginning, but man... that's gonna be a tough sell to not be completely eye-rolling.

- Apparently/allegedly, no explanation for Palpatine still being alive. Whaaaaaaaaat. That had best be bullsh*t. And his plan seems convoluted at best. Ian pretty much claimed they pulled him in at the 11th hour for this, and apparently it shows in the story execution. Sounds like they were banking on everyone in the audience being too shocked/excited at his reveal to actually build much into it.

- And I'm sure there's more involved than what I'm reading, but if Kylo actually brings Rey back to life through the "Power Of (Force) Love" - and it seems 100% certain - then that feels like this film's equivalent to either Leia Poppins or the Holdo Maneuver in the "...But That's Not How Sh*t Works" category. Like, since when can Force-users literally will someone back from the f*cking dead? Come ON. This stuff they just decide that people can suddenly do is infuriating, because if sh*t DID work that way, huge chunks of sh*t from every other Star Wars movie is nullified. Again, maaaybe they give it a halfway decent explanation, but if Kylo/Ben can just Try Really Hard and bring Rey back to life, I'm over here wondering why a bunch of other Important Dead People aren't up walking around.

Anakin/Vader: Tries to use the entire planet of Mustafar and a Big Tower Thing to try and bring Padme back to life, because he once heard a story about someone who tried (and failed) to do the same thing, and it turned out so badly it literally murdered the entire planet and didn't even work! Vader obviously never figures out how to do this because Sh*t Doesn't Work That Way.

Ben/Kylo: "Oh noes! Rey is dead! Please don't be dead, Rey!"
Rey: "It's okay, I'm not dead. I was for a minute. Thanks for not wanting me to be dead, because now I am not dead.
Ben: "Thank Goodness! Except now, I am dead. Can you in turn wish me back to life, friend? Since this is a thing we can apparently do?"
Rey: "I don't believe that I will, for reasons this movie will not fully explain and most people won't stop to think twice about. Goodbye."
Ben: "Okay. Oh, look, my dead parents!"

"Exhausting your own life force to make it work" or not... that really shouldn't be a thing anyone can do. Just feels... cheap.


Again, I'm hoping the movie tries really, REALLY hard to explain this stuff in much greater detail because on a surface level, it doesn't make any sense.

I know it's like how WWE strives to "Create Moments" and manufacture emotional memories rather than actual coherent storytelling, but some of that stuff sounds like a real ass-pull. SOME stuff sounds pretty good, though, and it does sound like it makes up for a lot of the last one - some people claim that the first quarter to a third of the movie is essentially all explaining and apologizing for the TLJ. But knowing for a fact that this movie's story is NOT at all what they originally planned to do makes any corrections seem rather hollow. They defended everything Rian did, tooth-and-nail, and now they're pretending that this was the natural evolution of the story and that they planned it that way from the jump, EVEN THOUGH every single person involved in the movies admits that wasn't the case, and that this entire thing was still being re-written on-set last month. It's so... weird.

Sounds like a fun movie to watch in theaters that falls apart in talking about it on the ride home. But I don't think it will split people down the middle like the last one did. I'unno, might go see it around New Years after things slow down. Doesn't sound terrible, just... meh.

Like, the writing itself is pretty bad from a storytelling perspective - things in this trilogy just don't make sense at all when you try and fit the movies together, as many people are pointing out - but I'm guessing that it at least seems slightly more coherent watching it play out in real-time, rather than in the disjointed Spoilers being related second- and third-hand.

Some stuff seems satisfying, but a LOT of it seems like, "But... that just doesn't make any SENSE." Especially Snoke/Rey/Palpatine. The story as-told across three movies simply is not consistent, unless people are leaving huge chunks out.

We'll see.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

First bunch of critic reviews are in. 55%, making this the second lowest ranking live action Star Wars film next to The Phantom Menace

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_rise_of_skywalker

[AquaParade]

This thing is being torn apart, damn!

Makes me more curious to see it. I like Star Wara but not enough to be massively disappointed if it's truly terrible.

[Shark_Blade]

Lol f*** rottentomatoes. The biased reviewers gave The Last Jedi a 91% based on 455 reviews while general public gave it 45% based on 213,520 inputs.

Just go in with your own mindset and maybe with general public consensus too if you’re curious.

[oldmanwinters]

First bunch of critic reviews are in. 55%, making this the second lowest ranking live action Star Wars film next to The Phantom Menace

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_rise_of_skywalker

Wow, this movie can't even count on the loyal support of the critical elite!

Wait... maybe that's a good sign for audiences and fans? :lol:

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Just wait for articles exposing these bad reviews as a deliberate campaign of hate from people who haven't seen the movie yet.

Any day now. We've done this song and dance before. No movie is allowed to fail because it's a terrible movie anymore.

[Shark_Blade]

After watching it

So what I like:
- I really, really despised Kylo Ren/Ben since TFA. He was just a spoiled brat, threw a tantrum and unnecessarily an overpowering antagonist. I was smiling when Rey stabbed him but was greatly disappointed when Rey healed him! Tf Rey, that annoying trash deserves to die. When Han Solo was talking to him, the dude sitting next to me was literally sobbing but I didn’t feel a damn thing lol. I guess I started warming up to Ben when he turned side and aiding Rey. Him sacrificing his life to save Rey was great too. A nice end to an annoying “villain” turned to good guy.
- Finnpoe doesn’t get to be a couple but at least they’re promoted to General Bros now.
- I love the trio group hug at the end. Very intimate and loving, great chemistry
- Leia and Luke ghosts force appearing together at the end is so sweet (why couldn’t Han Solo and Ben appear too? Lol ghost young Anakin can obnoxiously appeared with Obi Wan and Yoda in RotJ but not them? Make it make sense)

What I don’t like:
- the Jedi ghosts are silly. They can appear whenever they want or when the story demands it, they can cause impact on physical things in this world like setting fire and lifting up jets but they couldn’t join actual wars in the galaxy? No they just gonna let them be but sometimes they help the living Jedis? Make it make sense...
- How did Palpatine survived the fall? Who took him to this planet? If Palpatine was so powerful and amassing huge war fleets at his disposal, why it took him decades to fight back? Why so long, why now?
- Rey being a Palpatine grandchild. Sounds kinda fanfic material but ok
- “Rey have to kill Palpatine so he can merge with Rey after taking him down with hatred”. Lol were they smoking crack when writing this? What if Rey just kill him with no hatred involved, just out of pure sense of justice and a clear heart? Silly nonsense

A fun, flawed movie but better than TLJ definitely. I still enjoy it tbh.

[IMJ]

Again, just a point for people to consider - Only a true, true nerd would be directly insulted by Disney and their constituents, be told off and likened to the worst of humanity by Rian Johnson after paying him; and still pay to go see The Rise of Skywalker.

That's like the kid who gives the school bully his lunch money, then gets slapped in the face yet afterwards still tries to friend up to the POS who violated him.

Now on the other hand, if somehow you truly loved TLJ and have no gripes with Rian Johnson, then by all means pay Disney even more money.

[Andrew NDB]

I'm very wary of these reviews and score. Good movie or not, as noted, TLJ scored super, super high with critics. I suspect this is a lot of reviewers disappointed that this isn't as woke as that (or sad/betrayed that Poe doesn't make out with Finn or whatever), and punishing it accordingly.

And I admit I haven't read even half of the comics (and about, like two of the novels) from the old EU, but what I remember most was the Republic always trying to firmly establish a foothold and some remnant of the Empire always rising up to try and take over again. Maybe that did finally settle itself out, but for the most part only the names of the organizations on either side changed, the rest was fundamentally the same.

Not really. The armistice with Pellaeon (i.e., the Empire) was signed after only about 4 years of books. After that it was just years and years of New Republic (with the Imperial remnants as allies) vs. alien invaders who could block the Force.

[Vegita-San]

that's probably a VERY good reason why the early critics are trashing it.
They are so conditioned to praise wokeness, that when something isn't woke, they don't know what to do anymore.

Yeah. The Books, the early year ones where empire versus rebels.

immediatly after ROTJ, they team up against aliens a few times. and then there are the xwing books with dalla and the battle for coruscant.

the empire was far from defeated. you even had a Hutt taking control of a death star prototype... oy.

[Andrew NDB]

immediatly after ROTJ, they team up against aliens a few times.

Just the once, against the Ssi-Ruuk or whatever. In "The Truce at Bakura." Then 4 years of New Republic vs. Imperial remnants, then a real truce, then years and years of New Republic vs. the Yuuzhan Vong aliens.

[ZariusTwo]

Just saw the big eye-rolling

Reylo kiss

leaked on Youtube.

[Sumac]

You can't make these things too complicated. I mean, remember how badly people reacted to all the stuff about "trade disputes" and "blockades" and "Imperial Senates" and all that in the Prequels?
One of the main problems with this stuff was that it was not portrayed very well and first episode kind of starts in the middle of an event without any explanation of what the heck is going on.

When I've first watched Phantom Menace I was like: "What is Trade Federation? What is their dispute? What's going on with politics in the galaxy?" It's quite similar to the First Order and "Rebels" in TFA - we know they are here, but how did we get here? What are those factions and what are their goals?

This is why OT was brilliant: it had provided simple setup, which needed no further explanation. But it only works once and it does not work when you are essentially in the middle of an ongoing story.

As for TROS, well, guess Disney wanted to make amends for a TLJ failure, but in the process failed even more, it seems. I am afraid, that Hack Johnson might use this as a leverage, but I hope that Kennedy would be kicked out from decision-making after this debacle, which probably preclude RJ from having anything to do with Star Wars ever again.

Not that I expect Disney will take lessons from this. Multi-billion corporations are not known for their self-awareness or a foresight.

[Andrew NDB]

So it sounds like Kelly Marie Tran's character is basically just a cameo?

[IMJ]

I'm very wary of these reviews and score. Good movie or not, as noted, TLJ scored super, super high with critics. I suspect this is a lot of reviewers disappointed that this isn't as woke as that (or sad/betrayed that Poe doesn't make out with Finn or whatever), and punishing it accordingly.

Oh, absolutely. But it's still on the consumer in the free market to make these things right through financial support levels.

I mean - Disney screwed the franchise, improved their quality of life by taking the money and after that they verbally abused any fan who didn't shill for them.

At this point any support of Disney Star Wars born of "good-will purchasing" should be done & over with. Paying Disney again still only rewards them. They will have been paid not once on the good will going into TLJ, but now twice on the addiction and promise that "this one is better now".

You need that piece of flesh back from that corporation so that it trickles down to the responsible parties. And that extreme resolve isn't only because TLJ was a slap in the face, but because after they took your money for it they basically called a large cross section of people toxic life-assholes.

You need that piece of flesh back from those f'n scumbags.

[ranger_scout]

I really don’t want to do this, but I might just have to wait till the movie becomes available on Disney+ or home media to see it. The reaction it’s getting sounds just like what happened with the finale of Voltron: Legendary Defender. That series also once started off promising, but it left a bad taste in so many people’s mouths at the very end. Sadly, I also think that the fandom will most likely continue to pick on the actors involved with this trilogy for years to come. I even read something about the latest episode of The Mandalorian, which I haven’t seen yet, and it’s really going to disappoint my dad and my brother.

[Andrew NDB]

I also think that the fandom will most likely continue to pick on the actors involved with this trilogy for years to come.

Like the people that "bullied" Kelly Marie Tran off of Instagram? Oh, boo hoo. Nobody's picking on anyone on a personal level and people have always and will always be assholes on the internet.

[IMJ]

I don't think the actors deserve it if they marched out an played a character well enough. They are given the lines and trying to do the job without having much input into the story or direction.

Maybe some criticism for some clearly strange on-camera behavior if it can be found, sure. But this whole ordeal should rest squarely on the producers, writers and directors.

[frank_one]

As far as I know nobody is bullying Adam Driver, Daisy Ridley, Oscar Isaac or John Boyega. Their characters? Nobody loves them.

[Andrew NDB]

More reviews pouring in:

http://www.darkhorizons.com/rise-of-skywalker-reviews-are-not-kind/

“RISE OF SKYWALKER feels like what would happen if, instead of writing an actual screenplay for a STAR WARS movie, you went on Reddit and found a list of EPISODE IX demands written by an unhinged lunatic and then just shot that instead.” – Scott Wampler, Birth Movies Death

Eh, that's dumb. I don't think anybody was demanding a resurrected Emperor or most/all of the things going on in this.

“Rather than making a movie some people might love, Abrams tried to make a movie no one would hate, and as a result, you don’t feel much of anything at all.” – Sam Adams, Slate

That sounds pretty dead-on.

[Andrew NDB]

So Darth Maul, Yoda, Mace Windu, and exploding inside a destructing Death Star couldn't defeat Emperor Palpatine... but Rey does single-handedly. Just saw the scene. She just takes two lightsabers and bounces his Force lightning back him until he dissolves. Which is stupid, because if it was killing him, why wouldn't he just stop producing the lightning?

[Leo656]

So Darth Maul, Yoda, Mace Windu, and exploding inside a destructing Death Star couldn't defeat Emperor Palpatine... but Rey does single-handedly. Just saw the scene. She just takes two lightsabers and bounces his Force lightning back him until he dissolves. Which is stupid, because if it was killing him, why wouldn't he just stop producing the lightning?

Because HE'S AN IDIOT!

Seriously, he's written as like, the f*cking dirt-worst "evil mastermind" in movie history across the entire series, and he only ever accomplished jack f*cking sh*t because every single other person in the entire franchise is even more rock-stupid than he is. If it wasn't for Ian's admittedly-impressive vocal delivery, Palpatine would be exposed as an impotent jagoff in a bathrobe and nothing more.

All of the Star Wars film series is the very definition of "idiot plot". Who Booked This Sh*t?!

Also, I was giving some thought last night to exactly what you said, and for that reason above all I'm giving a big "YAWN" to this latest "death" of Palpatine. If ALL THAT couldn't kill him, then f*ck it, he'll be back again the next time they need another Mysterious Big Bad. As others have pointed out already, this latest twist completely changes the entire Saga from being a story about the Rise/Fall/Rise of the Skywalkers, and makes it ENTIRELY about the Rise/Fall/Rise/Fall (For Realsies, We promise) of f*cking Palpatine, instead. BOOOOO!

Mark my words, they'll have Palpatine in yet another clone body as the Secret Villain for Star Wars Episode XXIX in a few decades because THIS SERIES IS F*CKING STUPID AS F*CK.

[sdp]

I know I'll forever love star wars in one way or another after playing Vader immortal on the oculus. I got goosebumps like I did after those Episode VII trailers. No matter how bad the original movies are still always going to be there.

Only a few hours away.

[Shark_Blade]

Is anyone delighted to see Leia one last time? Surprised they have enough footage to make a coherent story for her or maybe they already finished filming before her death? I thought her story was done pretty well.

"The truth is that J.J. Abrams was great friends with Carrie; he had an extraordinary sense of love for her," her brother said. "They had eight minutes of footage. They grabbed every frame and analyzed it ... and then reverse-engineered it and [got] it into the story the right way. It's kind of magical."
https://www.space.com/leia-original-star-wars-real-last-jedi.html

So JJ included the last footages they had with her and tweaked it into the story.

[Andrew NDB]

Is anyone delighted to see Leia one last time? Surprised they have enough footage to make a coherent story for her or maybe they already finished filming before her death? I thought her story was done pretty well.

https://www.space.com/leia-original-star-wars-real-last-jedi.html

So JJ included the last footages they had with her and tweaked it into the story.

There was some reports that there was unused footage of Leia from TLJ as well to add to the pot. That's definitely one of the big things I'm curious to see.

I know that at one point there is CGI Young Leia for a quick flashback of her learning how to lightsaber wield.

[sdp]

I'm glad they were able to do that, on the other hand Leia in the sequel trilogy is worthless, such a boring character, whatever happened to her? I think she got the worst treatment out of the returning faces. Only cool thing she did was the space float thing she did in TLJ as ridiculous as that was. We didn't get a Solo/Leia kiss, we never got the three together, god what where they thinking.

[Shark_Blade]

CGI young Leia was there with young Luke training their lightsabers in the forest. She does look a bit off there if you look really closely especially the eyes, like how she is in Rogue One.
But it’s still cool though. Got a taste of how they bonded over Jedi training.

I'm glad they were able to do that, on the other hand Leia in the sequel trilogy is worthless, such a boring character, whatever happened to her? I think she got the worst treatment out of the returning faces. Only cool thing she did was the space float thing she did in TLJ as ridiculous as that was. We didn't get a Solo/Leia kiss, we never got the three together, god what where they thinking.

I don’t need to see old people kiss but yeah the 3 of them should have a scene together.

[Leo656]

All that extra time, money and effort wasted because she couldn't keep the straw stick outta her nose. I mean seriously, what a massive headache and colossal inconvenience. I'm no fan or apologist for Disney, but she cost them millions of dollars. For nothing. "I like DRUGS, fam."

For as much sh*t as people talk about Disney, them not suing the sh*t out of her family is the kindest and most compassionate thing they ever did or will do. I mean, it's kinda the exact reason why they have a "Morality Clause" in their contracts in the first place. It would be "mean" to come after her family for the violation of said clause, but they would have been perfectly within their rights to do so, if they weren't worried about all the negative publicity.

Junkies gonna junkie, I guess. At least they didn't have to sh*tcan ALL of their plans... just most of them.

Just Say No, kids.

[Andrew NDB]

Carrie Fisher's bad behavior in interviews/behind the scenes/on the red carpet surrounding TFA and TLJ is far more entertaining than anything actually in these movies.

[Leo656]

She was such a goddamn degenerate. And proud of it, no less. It tickles me goddamn pink that people put her on a pedestal because they liked her in a movie they watched when they were 5. People's values are just the best. We glorify the absolute best and brightest of people, for the purest and most noble of reasons. Certainly.

[ranger_scout]

As far as I know nobody is bullying Adam Driver, Daisy Ridley, Oscar Isaac or John Boyega. Their characters? Nobody loves them.

Daisy Ridley's character Rey received criticism for being sexist.

https://time.com/4549109/star-wars-daisy-ridley-rey-mary-sue-criticism/

She also talks about how impossible it is to make everyone happy.

https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a30107091/star-wars-rise-of-skywalker-episode-9-daisy-ridley-opinion/

[IMJ]

"Man that Rise of Skywalker movie sounds AWFUL! HAR HAR HE!" -looking around to see who is part of the crowd-

"YEAH! What a trash fest that crap was!" -pulls money out of wallet while talking crap-

"Man Disney Star Wars sucks, they don't care about us, hell they actually told original fans to go away even! -skoff-" -pays for assigned-seating Star Wars screening at the brew 'n view-

"Hell that bastard Rian Johnson called us Man Babies!" -checks shirt pocket for vintage Luke Skywalker figure while taking awkward fast strides into theater, pulling up oversized pants and sipping on 20,000 calorie syrupy soda-

Very curious to see what the real opening weekend take is going to be..... I'm not saying don't see it. In some ways we all deserve to see how this thing that we've been vested in since kids wraps up. But I am saying don't reward Disney for it. They ruin the franchise. They insult the fandom. They take the money and enhance their California lifestyle. They make another one and claim "this time we've got it!" as a marketing tactic. They take your money again.

I'm not saying don't ever see it to judge it. I'm saying find a way to do it in any reasonable manner that doesn't reward Disney financially for what is described above. Wait for it. Watch it with 20 friends when only one copy was purchased. Okay? Whatever, but stop rewarding these people and bettering their already ridiculous lifestyles from this.

[Leo656]

If I don't go to the movies with my wife she throws a fit, so I plead extenuating circumstances, bruh.

She legit stabbed a bitch in the face once. I got enough problems around here on a good day. Glad things are a little bit easier for you! :lol:

But yeah. She wants to see it, so my hands are tied. BUT it probably won't be for a couple weeks, at least. And we'll probably go to a matinee. I don't like giving them my money, either, bro.

[IMJ]

If I don't go to the movies with my wife she throws a fit, so I plead extenuating circumstances, bruh.

She legit stabbed a bitch in the face once. I got enough problems around here on a good day. Glad things are a little bit easier for you! :lol:

But yeah. She wants to see it, so my hands are tied. BUT it probably won't be for a couple weeks, at least. And we'll probably go to a matinee. I don't like giving them my money, either, bro.

If you are going to see it as a function of family and because your wife legitimately likes the material then I don't think there's much to do but accept that. I have some understanding as to how that works. It's why I sat through the damn Notebook.

But if you are going to see it because you "like to go to the movies" well.... I mean there's a lot of movies out there man.

All I do is point out a perspective. No mas, no menos. :)

[Leo656]

I don't think she even gives much of a sh*t, frankly. :lol: It's Star Wars, it's an "event", it's a day out. She definitely didn't love the last one, although she wasn't as pissed off as most people. She doesn't argue one bit that the stupid sh*t is indeed stupid. She's just more of the "Eh, it's a f*cking movie, who gives a sh*t" type.

Two important variables to consider:
1. She never saw a Star Wars movie until 2001.
2. She's a huge Marilyn Manson fan and her all-time favorite actor is Johnny Depp. SO, we can safely say that she just plain has awful taste. :trazz:

[Xav]

Daisy Ridley's character Rey received criticism for being sexist.

https://time.com/4549109/star-wars-daisy-ridley-rey-mary-sue-criticism/

She also talks about how impossible it is to make everyone happy.

https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a30107091/star-wars-rise-of-skywalker-episode-9-daisy-ridley-opinion/How exactly is calling Rey a Mary Sue or saying the Last Jedi "wasn't a great film" bullying Daisy Ridley?

[Leo656]

I don't think any sane person blames these actors for the abysmal material they've been asked to put over. I know I don't. They're all Just Fine.

[Xav]

Here is Jeremy Jahns spoiler free review.

Hobn57uzQlk

[Shark_Blade]

Ok did anyone found out what Finn wanted to tell Rey??? I don’t think it was ever explained in the movie.

He loved her? He’s gay coming out of the closet? He’s changing his last name to Skywalker too?

What?

[Leo656]

The general assumption/interpretation among most people is it's that he's in love with her but doesn't know how to say it.

Y'know what's funny? Multiple times a day for the last two or three days, an ad for Rise of Skywalker will start to play on the TV, only to abruptly cut away after like two seconds to another commercial. :lol: I swear, I'm not making it up. Weird!

[sdp]

Just got back, movie is alright, I think it's the best Disney Star Wars movie, now a bunch of stuff doesn't make any sense but for the most part you can ignore it and enjoy the movie, well until the end. Horrible way to end the saga but to me it was a more enjoyable experience than TFA and TLJ. I think if we took scenes from the 3 movies we could make a pretty awesome Episode VII.

I think most people were excited in the theater watching, they clapped before it started, they had lightsabers, the atmosphere in general felt good. After the movie people seemed confused as to what to make of it. I definitely think many of those who were high on Ep7 and 8 have finally come crashing down with 9 realizing it was not a good trilogy.

Mostly spoiler thoughts ahead:

*Music still wasn't great, I can't recognize any new original tracks that I love

*The MCU type humor doesn't fit star wars very well

*The Kylo Rey relationship was great, it worked

*Finn was less useless but overall still useless in the trilogy
*Why do they continue to set up Finn loves Rey only to ignore it in the end?

*Asian girl from TLJ has no relevance in the movie nd yet still gets too much worthless dialog, as much as chewbacca or more saying absolutely nothing like "of course"

*Chewbacca was handled the worst in the trilogy so far

*Luke was handled worse than in TLJ, I actually liked Luke in TLJ for the most part

*Leia's scenes are awkward, they feel like those Weird Al Yankovic/space ghost coast to coast spoof interview, but I guess they did the best they could, I did like Leia being a Jedi master for Rey a lot

*less time is wasted on dumb plots like TLJ, at least most things here had a purpose, also loved that the 3 got to have an adventure, it's something that was ignored since Ep7

*Why did they bring back Han Solo? stuff like that doesn't fit Star Wars even if it did feel heartfelt

*the space battle final confrontation had absolutely no weight, I never felt any tension over what was going on

*the new characters introduced in the movie are all absolutely worthless and only took screentime from already established characters who needed it
Why add that black girl as a Finn love interest when he already has Rey and the asian girl? maybe fix the Asian girl a bit instead of wasting more time with another worthless character, same with Poe's bounty hunter love interest

*Lando was handled pretty well I think

*General Hex was worthless yet still the best he's been in any of the movies

*Palpatine's return explanation being handwaved through sith science and seeing the clones of Snoke in tubes worked for me and it's just some Dark Empire comic shenanigans but I'll take it, no issue there

*Palpatine's plan of having rey kill him but then not makes absolutely no sense, or how the first order is so powerful but that's been a problem since Ep7

*Rey being a palatine is the stupidest **** ever and makes no sense, I'm sure those who read the spoilers have been discussing it for a while but I was spoiler free, it's still beyond stupid, but this is a full discussion that I need to read about and debate

*As far as ending the trilogy, it kinda does that ok and it kinda brings it together with the old one to the best of its ability, of course it means it is not pretty and it all feels so lackluster, as a way to end the saga of skywalker, it's pathetic

*That orange alien from ep7 is just kinda there in the background as well.

*C3PO got plenty of recognition in this movie, perhaps more than he should've but it was welcome, R2D2 and BB8 get the shaft though.

*The empire is gone, kylo redeemed, emperor dead, celebration, it's just a rehash of ROTJ but without feeling like something important happened

Most of my thoughts seem negative but I do think it was the best of the Disney films as I previously mentioned, it tried to fix things to the best of their ability but even then some of their choices are just odd, swallowing some pride and saying Rey is a (blood) skywalker would've worked better and just a better plot for palpatine to come back or explain how he controlled the first order, something. But yeah disappointing trilogy, movie is ok in comparison with the previous two installments.

[Leo656]

It's just so frustrating - and so very, very consistent with their approach to this trilogy's story - that the one thing they really SHOULD have given a bunch of explanation to, gets None. Like yeah, good, way to fill holes between JJ's movie and Rian's movie, but the big "WTF?" in the room is Palpatine, and we get nothing.

Just like Luke/Han/Leia/Chewie getting a scene together.
Fans: "That's literally the ONE thing I care about more than ANYTHING else you can give me!"
Disney: "Well... you ain't gettin' it!"

Same thing here. They are downright spiteful with this sh*t and it's annoying.

It's like I tell guys when they're just sitting there resting in a chinlock during their match. "Y'know what'd be better than doing nothing?" "No, what?" "ANYTHING!" :lol:

Like literally, anything.

[AquaParade]

So has anyone here seen this yet?

I'm pretty damn curious to just see the spoilers at this point, but if the movie is good, I'll probably regret it.

At least there is still The Mandalorian. I haven't watched since Episode 3, but I was enjoying it a fair amount. Curious as to how y'all are liking it.

[ZariusTwo]

So has anyone here seen this yet?

Just saw Rise of Fanw*nker. What an objectively terrible movie. Written on a napkin and developed by committee. Dreadful. Even worse, Last Jedi has went up a notch in my opinion.

[Vegita-San]

I'd be curious if anyone actually walks out during screenings

[Andrew NDB]

I'm curious, how exactly is the whole fleet of Star Destroyers taken out/dealt with?

[ZariusTwo]

I'm curious, how exactly is the whole fleet of Star Destroyers taken out/dealt with?

The lead ship is destroyed by Finn and the other black girl using a gun port or something.

[Andrew NDB]

The lead ship is destroyed by Finn and the other black girl using a gun port or something.

What about the other 40 Star Destroyers?

[IMJ]

Just saw Rise of Fanw*nker. What an objectively terrible movie. Written on a napkin and developed by committee. Dreadful. Even worse, Last Jedi has went up a notch in my opinion.

I'm not trolling you at all, but honest question. Why did you pay to see it?

[ZariusTwo]

I'm not trolling you at all, but honest question. Why did you pay to see it?

Torrent dude.

[IMJ]

torrent dude.

-huge fist pump-

[Andrew NDB]

So...

It sounds like Palpatine's 30 Star Destroyers are all remote-controlled (?!) from some main Star Destroyer, so when the Resistance destroys that main Star Destroyer, all of the others just fall into the planet's atmosphere and go boom? It really is that stupid?

[IMJ]

So...

It sounds like Palpatine's 30 Star Destroyers are all remote-controlled (?!) from some main Star Destroyer, so when the Resistance destroys that main Star Destroyer, all of the others just fall into the planet's atmosphere and go boom? It really is that stupid?

In they end they all combine into a giant Death Star. Then it's revealed in the credits that this was a Michael Bay film because J.J. got sick halfway through and had to turn the reins over.

Next week people will be calling for "The J.J. Cut".

[sdp]

I like how those TLJ defenders are now saying rise of skywalker sucks because disney listened to the hater troll star wars fans that don't deserve it. They're in denial that there was no way to fix TLJ, I mean how else would they try to salvage the third film with what was set up?

So TLJ fans and Disney SWs fans hate it and blame the haters, the people who hated Disney star wars hate the film for well it's still trying to finish the trilogy they hated, and now everyone hates the film. I still mantain that with a clearer head it's likely the best episode of the 3 So...

It sounds like Palpatine's 30 Star Destroyers are all remote-controlled (?!) from some main Star Destroyer, so when the Resistance destroys that main Star Destroyer, all of the others just fall into the planet's atmosphere and go boom? It really is that stupid?

Yes, that's exactly it and while dumb it's just a recycled idea from past SWs movies so could be worse like..... There's also a scene where palpatine literally uses force lighting and destroys most of the resistance's ships, moments later the force lighting can't go against Rey's two lightsabers and dies.
Now that one is dumber.
.

I'd be curious if anyone actually walks out during screenings
There is no scene that would make you want to walk out.

So has anyone here seen this yet?

I'm pretty damn curious to just see the spoilers at this point, but if the movie is good, I'll probably regret it.

At least there is still The Mandalorian. I haven't watched since Episode 3, but I was enjoying it a fair amount. Curious as to how y'all are liking it.
I saw it, I liked it alright. Not good but I feel it at least tried harder than TFA and TLJ in actually doing something even if it doesn't exactly succeed.

Don't get spoiled, I think the reveals probably look worse on paper than how they happen. They're still dumb but it's not that important overall, it's more about seeing the journey and well we finally get a star wars like journey for our characters even if the actual details of the plot aren't the strongest.

[Andrew NDB]

I like how those TLJ defenders are now saying rise of skywalker sucks because disney listened to the hater troll star wars fans that don't deserve it.

Which is dumb. Listened to them how? I don't know of one person who hated TLJ who would have said "I want Emperor Palpatine back, 30 Star Destroyers, and a whole lot of 'find the item' quests!"

They're in denial that there was no way to fix TLJ, I mean how else would they try to salvage the third film with what was set up?

There was nowhere else to go. Rian Johnson wrapped everything up and left nothing left to do.

[sdp]

Now that this **** is finished, I actually want to watch a movie with Finn/Poe/Ben/Rey in their own adventures, they succeeded in making them feel like characters for the most part like the original gang that could go on adventures. I think all 3 films could be edited into one 2 hour decent Episode VII that sets up the next two movies now that the empire is cleaned up for good, perhaps Palpatine like in the EU wanted to go against a force like the Yuuzhan Vong and boom you have episodes VIII and IX with some new ideas.

Of course in a perfect world I would've preferred the the Whills/midiclorian storyline that Lucas had planned. No matter how bad at least it would've told a story that wasn't recycled.

Since the ending of this film is pretty much:
\Return of the Jedi's ending done all over again but it doesn't feel like anything big was actually stopped unlike ROTJ since it's just a rehash

Ranking still stands:
IV>VI>V>I>II>III>IX>VIII>VII

[Andrew NDB]

Things I think will bother me when I see it...

* The whole sequel trilogy and nobody new gets the Force except Rey, Kylo, and the random kid at the end of TLJ that's never seen again. Really, not one other character?

* Just the same old starships. X-Wings, Y-Wings, Star Destroyers. Nothing has changed in 30 years.

* Just the same two people half-heartedly lightsaber fighting each other twice in three movies. No other lightsaber fights of any kind.

* Emperor Palpatine comes back to almost immediately die. No lightsaber fight.

* No adequate explanation for why Rey has always been so powerful. No, "she's Palpatine's granddaughter" isn't good enough by itself.

* No word on how the First Order funded/had the resources to build up a whole fleet that outnumbers the New Republic and Resistance fleet. Also no word on how Palpatine did the same thing with a second fleet.

* No word on how Palpatine comes back to life.

* Millennium Falcon still being chased into tight corridors it has to manuever through while shooting at TIE Fighters. This has been done over and over again.

* The last movie of the saga and no Anakin, Obi-Wan or Yoda Force ghosts? wtf? Apparently in the movie, when you see Han talking to Kylo, that was a reshoot. Hayden Christiansen actually was originally there as Anakin, but it got yanked.

* A seemingly inherent embarassment about the prequels. For everything JJ was talking about wanting to make 9 as the 9th chapter in a story, honoring everything in the prequels and OT, you wouldn't know it by the finished product. Like, wtf happened to Coruscant? How about solving the mystery of how Anakin was created? (they had the perfect chance to do so here) How is this bringing things full circle at all? Bringing back Palpatine to kill him again doesn't do anything.

[neatoman]

Alright, I've seen this movie now. It's trash, complete and utter dung. This kind of feels like a spoiler even though the movie starts out with it and thus barely qualifies as one but for the sake of not upsetting anyone:
This pile of crap literally opens up with the revelation that the First Order was just step 1 in CYBORG ZOMBIE PALPATINE BROUGHT BACK FROM THE GRAVE BY A SECRET SITH CABAL's plan to restore the empire. And Snoke was just A SOULLESS PUPPET BODY FOR PALPATINE TO USE REMOTELY.

Tell me, do you honestly think a movie that literally starts off with a bunch of awful retcons has even the slightest chance of being half-way decent? The entire movie is like watching a train wreck cause other train wrecks, it's astonishing how bad this movie really is. Nothing about it works. It doesn't piss me off but it might actually be the worst written and edited movie in the franchise. There's a bunch of fake out deaths, pointless plot threads, full of retcons that would make a Marvel editor blush and just really bizarre turns.

Ever read a really ****** comic book storyline like the Clone Saga? Rise of Skywalker is kind of to Star Wars what the Clone Saga is to Spider-Man. A convoluted, retcon heavy mess of a story.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

No interest in seeing the movie (i decided to read the entire plot on Wikipedia just so I never have to see it) after the disappointment of VII (saw it once in the Cinema and again on Blu Ray) and the travesty of VIII (which I only watched once on Blu Ray, and I'm never seeing it again)

I then went back to watch the other 6 films. The only one that disappointed was phantom Menace, but the rest I really enjoyed. Attack of the Clones even improved this time around.

Currently, ranking them would go like this:
V>IV>III>VI>II>I>VII>VIII

[IMJ]

Alright, I've seen this movie now. It's trash, complete and utter dung.

Did you buy a ticket to see it?

[Xav]

How about solving the mystery of how Anakin was created? (they had the perfect chance to do so here)They actually already did that in a comics.
https://screenrant.com/star-wars-anakin-father-emperor/2/

[MikeandRaph87]

Was anyone's theatre caught off guard by Ben kissing Rey? They are related and after the Leia kissing Luke to make Han jealous bit that was an odd choice.

[IMJ]

Was anyone's theatre caught off guard by Ben kissing Rey? They are related and after the Leia kissing Luke to make Han jealous bit that was an odd choice.


Are they related? It was my understanding that you are left believing that Rey is actually a Palpatine...

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah, no relation to Kylo.

[sdp]

The movie is worth watching, especially if you watched the horrible Ep7/8. It's a "we ****ed up, sorry, hope you like what we tried to do with what we got".

They still mess other things up but for the most part I think they got things right with the movie.

Are they related? It was my understanding that you are left believing that Rey is actually a Palpatine...

In the comics Palpatine basically is the one who created Anakin by dark side shennanigans had schmi skywalker become pregnant so in a way they are related sort of.

Things I think will bother me when I see it...



The comments I deleted are because those concerns are indeed legit, but for the other ones here are better answers:
* The whole sequel trilogy and nobody new gets the Force except Rey, Kylo, and the random kid at the end of TLJ that's never seen again. Really, not one other character?
I'm not sure if it's a one off joke or if intentionally but Finn hints at being able to use the force

* No adequate explanation for why Rey has always been so powerful. No, "she's Palpatine's granddaughter" isn't good enough by itself.
The sort of explain this one as well and not just with the info that she's palpatine's granddaughter

* No word on how the First Order funded/had the resources to build up a whole fleet that outnumbers the New Republic and Resistance fleet. Also no word on how Palpatine did the same thing with a second fleet.
This is a problem since Episode VII though

* No word on how Palpatine comes back to life.
They do mention dark sith science and cloning actually, Dark Empire basically became canon


* The last movie of the saga and no Anakin, Obi-Wan or Yoda Force ghosts? wtf? Apparently in the movie, when you see Han talking to Kylo, that was a reshoot. Hayden Christiansen actually was originally there as Anakin, but it got yanked. I didn't know about this, they either should've had everyone or no one

* A seemingly inherent embarassment about the prequels. For everything JJ was talking about wanting to make 9 as the 9th chapter in a story, honoring everything in the prequels and OT, you wouldn't know it by the finished product. Like, wtf happened to Coruscant? How about solving the mystery of how Anakin was created? (they had the perfect chance to do so here) How is this bringing things full circle at all? Bringing back Palpatine to kill him again doesn't do anything.
Didn't think about this but it's definitely true, also ironic how they were so concerned in not alienating fans by making something too close to the prequels in nature and created something far more hated

[Shark_Blade]

Audience gave Rise of Skywalker 89% rating on rottentomatoes
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_rise_of_skywalker

[sdp]

Spoilers ahead













I still hate that the main reason Rey is a palpatine is so they could give us a "surprise" and "gotcha", but it would've just been better to have the predictable Rey is a skywalker answer. I mean they could've just swallowed their pride and done it.

Take this into account, Kylo Ren ended up being an almost exact rehash of darth vader in the end with a redemption before dying. They didn't care to swallow their pride and do the predictable thing there.

Also remember when TFA was about to come out and they kept saying "Kylo isn't a sith, the sith are no more" etc, only for they to do a complete 180 and now all this movie they talk about the sith, I think it's the only prequel reference.

The whole plot just feels like something out of the cartoons.

[Andrew NDB]

They even said, even Serkis himself, "No, Snoke is not part of the Sith." Oops! Would've been far more interesting to just tow the line with Snoke and reveal him as Darth Plagueis, who survived being assassinated by Palpatine, his pupil. Have him be the who made Anakin and made Rey.

Though maybe Snoke still could be Plagueis. Perhaps after killing his mentor, Palpatine uses clones of him to "wear" so he can truly feel superior to him.

Mostly things are sad because of Luke. All that struggle and no wife, no kids. Though I don't think they specifically ever said he didn't have a wife once, or kids out there... though if he did, you'd think he'd want to be protecting them and not just hanging with Porgs. And Kennedy seems obsessed with taking the Skywalkers off the board.

[AquaParade]

Edit: nvm.....

[Leo656]

Man, this sounds really bad. :ohwell:

[Andrew NDB]

Sidenote... isn't it funny how overreactionary the whole trilogy has been?

7 is overreactionary to the prequels to a point where JJ was just made to do a 4 remake. 8 was overreactionary to 7 with everyone having complained (rightly) that it was a remake of 4 (so they let him do whatever). 9 is overreactionary to 8 because nobody liked 8 and it made no one care about Solo, so enter in the test audiences and 3 different versions and Kennedy keeping creative control.

[Andrew NDB]

Yoda voice: "Mmm... ripped off, this was."

https://i.ibb.co/h8hMXmV/received-2643348672416405.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/0Y6F8B1/received-787684165027847.jpg

[Leo656]

That's actually pretty funny. :lol::lol::lol:

You're alright, You.

[Xav]

Also remember when TFA was about to come out and they kept saying "Kylo isn't a sith, the sith are no more" etc, only for they to do a complete 180 and now all this movie they talk about the sith, I think it's the only prequel reference.The Sith isn't a prequel reference, the term dates back as far as the rough draft for the original Star Wars.

[Andrew NDB]

bvouh-gVoXM

Shesus... does this remind anyone of the final marketing of the last TMNT "film"? "Everything a fan wants! Bebop. Rocksteady. Krang. Pizza." Except the narrator here clearly doesn't even sound like he gives af.

4FtskX7lSZc

[Turo602]

Yeah, no relation to Kylo.

Are we sure about that though? Isn't it hinted that Palpatine created Anakin? Or at least that was the original direction Lucas wanted to go, which would have been a great thing to confirm in this film if Disney didn't think the prequels were so yucky.

[Andrew NDB]

Are we sure about that though? Isn't it hinted that Palpatine created Anakin? Or at least that was the original direction Lucas wanted to go, which would have been a great thing to confirm in this film if Disney didn't think the prequels were so yucky.

Definitely. Though it's a little nebulous as to who created Anakin. Was it Palpatine? Was it Plageuis? Together, maybe? But either way, it wasn't via the old "in out, in out," as the Clockwork would say.

[Leo656]

I swear it wasn't even that long ago that a bunch of articles came out stating that one of the newer comics or novels definitively stated that Palpatine manipulated the Midichlorians to impregnate Shmi with Anakin. This was indeed Lucas's original intention (as Palpatine's speech to Anakin at The Sperm Opera in Ep. III not-so-subtly hints at for the benefit of the viewer) but he never got to flesh it out. But as far as I know, Disney made it "official canon" less than a year ago.

As to whether that means Anakin's bloodline has anything in common with Rey's... I kinda don't think so. He's Anakin's "father" in the sense that "God" is everyone's "father" but I don't think the Skywalker bloodline has any actual Palpatine DNA in it. Whereas Rey is his direct biological descendant, apparently, which means EWW, this toad-lookin' mu'fukka got his dick wet at some point and now I gotta think about it. WHAT THE HELL, Star Wars?!

[Andrew NDB]

I swear it wasn't even that long ago that a bunch of articles came out stating that one of the newer comics or novels definitively stated that Palpatine manipulated the Midichlorians to impregnate Shmi with Anakin. This was indeed Lucas's original intention (as Palpatine's speech to Anakin at The Sperm Opera in Ep. III not-so-subtly hints at for the benefit of the viewer) but he never got to flesh it out. But as far as I know, Disney made it "official canon" less than a year ago.

As to whether that means Anakin's bloodline has anything in common with Rey's... I kinda don't think so. He's Anakin's "father" in the sense that "God" is everyone's "father" but I don't think the Skywalker bloodline has any actual Palpatine DNA in it. Whereas Rey is his direct biological descendant, apparently, which means EWW, this toad-lookin' mu'fukka got his dick wet at some point and now I gotta think about it. WHAT THE HELL, Star Wars?!

Well... he had a son at some point, we know. Who would have conceived Rey around... 10 years after RotJ. Which means said son would be presumably at least around 20. But yeesh. I guess that still leaves us in scary weird ghoulish man territory (in terms of when Palpatine did the deed, naturally). So what happened to that son? Or the mother of the son? Knowing Kennedy we probably have some sh*t about "meet Palpatine's wife!" to look forward to.

Here comes the comics and books explaining everything. "Meet the Palpatines" and all. *yawn*

[Krutch]

I thought it was... fine. Honestly, it felt less like watching a movie and more like going to the repair shop after having your car totalled to see how it was salvaged.

TLJ really did a number on my ability to care about this story anymore, but I was mostly entertained. The Emperor stuff was too over the top for me, though.

I said time and time again after episode 7 "I hope Rey is either from no one special or a Palpatine". I guess I got both my wishes in two different movies, so, no arguments about that from me.

[newfan]

I remember speculating the same thing about Rey once or twice also, though I didn't think it would be the case at the time.

I'll take the powerful bloodline over her just being powerful all by herself...AND bested Luke in the last movie with that.

So, was the title relevant after all btw?

[ZariusTwo]

Audience score on Rotten Tomatoes is 86%. Guess the casuals are either Phantom Menacing, went for the Reylo feels, or accepted Disney's apology

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_rise_of_skywalker

[oldmanwinters]

Audience score on Rotten Tomatoes is 86%. Guess the casuals are either Phantom Menacing, went for the Reylo feels, or accepted Disney's apology

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_rise_of_skywalker

Once again, RT proves that critics and fans live in two different realities.

[Leo656]

Audience score on Rotten Tomatoes is 86%. Guess the casuals are either Phantom Menacing, went for the Reylo feels, or accepted Disney's apology

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_rise_of_skywalker

Well it's like I said, it's like WWE. "Does this make logical sense?" "No, BUT I definitely feel something." Emotional manipulation. People forgive an awful lot if you give them Memorable Moments backed by an awesome soundtrack.

I mean, my FB feed is FULL of people who proudly announced that they were going to love this movie no matter what, "Because it's Star Wars", and in the same breath accuse anyone who doesn't like it of being joyless and "missing the point". "It's NOT about the story, it's about Creating Memories. The story doesn't HAVE to be any good! You just have to FEEL something!"

Most of those people are in the wrestling business, which pretty much proves my theory. Several theories, actually. But I'll keep some of those theories to myself for the sake of being polite. :lol: But yeah. "Emotional Memories." That's the ticket.

Still pretty sure that there's going to be plenty of "... Y'know what's bullsh*t, though?" conversations once people get over the Warm Fuzzies of opening day/weekend. That always happens. Especially with this franchise.

[IMJ]

Are we sure about that though? Isn't it hinted that Palpatine created Anakin? Or at least that was the original direction Lucas wanted to go, which would have been a great thing to confirm in this film if Disney didn't think the prequels were so yucky.

Event that doesn't matter when you boil it down because it's not like Palpatine used his actual genetic material to do it. I always got that Anakin was a manipulation of the force as opposed to the chemical reaction of Schmi-Sith-sex.

[ZariusTwo]

Still pretty sure that there's going to be plenty of "... Y'know what's bullsh*t, though?" conversations once people get over the Warm Fuzzies of opening day/weekend. That always happens. Especially with this franchise.

Yeah, memories, while fresh, are only a temporary kick, then you gotta spend days, months, years, processing what you felt and whether or not it was worth that kick

The only time that kick is worth something long-term is when you're a child and you need those memories to create a comfort zone to plug yourself into as you age, you don't really need them when you're that age, where you should be saving up memories that matter in real life like reunions, learning a new skill, achieving something for the first time, falling in love, having a kid, celebrating their first birthdays. Life makes the most and least sense of all, but it makes you feel something more than two and a half hours of movie-by-committee will for a few days.

[Andrew NDB]

So, this is probably why Palpatine's resurrection is left nebulous. Can't have ghosts or ghouls or spirit/resurrection stuff in China:

http://www.darkhorizons.com/skywalker-soars-in-u-s-but-flops-in-china/

[Leo656]

That actually makes a lot of sense. That's another reason I'm pretty much done with movies anymore, if we have to book everything based on "Not upsetting the Chinese" then there's no f*cking point in even trying to tell a damn story, period. You can't snip the balls off of every single story you try and tell because you're worried about the overseas box office. Jesus.

Event that doesn't matter when you boil it down because it's not like Palpatine used his actual genetic material to do it. I always got that Anakin was a manipulation of the force as opposed to the chemical reaction of Schmi-Sith-sex.

Many people don't know this, but whatsername who played Anakin's mom had a pretty decent rack back in the 70s. After Ep. I came out some of her nudes from back in the day started popping up. Gotta say, Not Bad.

Not really related to anything, but most roads for me lead to titties. :lol:

[Andrew NDB]

Many people don't know this, but whatsername who played Anakin's mom had a pretty decent rack back in the 70s. After Ep. I came out some of her nudes from back in the day started popping up. Gotta say, Not Bad.

Not really related to anything, but most roads for me lead to titties. :lol:

Pernilla August? Yeah, and you should see her daughter, who is the lead actress in "The Rain" on Netflix.

https://i.ibb.co/MNhSMs7/49-Hot-Pictures-Of-Alba-August-Will-Drive-You-Nuts-For-Her.jpg

[AquaParade]

Didn't love it. Probably my least favorite of the new trilogy, but there were moments I enjoyed. I could end up feeling differently down the line, but I doubt it because I have a lot of questions and nitpicks.

I'd be interested to see a Kylo Ren prequel series on Disney+ though. Maybe something that tackles his time from training with Luke to the start of Force Awakens. Adam Driver could do a great job if they bring on some quality writers for it.

The last big release I viewed was the Watchmen HBO series and that blew this out of the water. Interesting characters, layers of metaphor, complex plot.

[oldmanwinters]

Still the best explanation of what happened to Palpatine at the end of RotJ:
5qAKXK_aLeA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qAKXK_aLeA

[Andrew NDB]

I really don't understand how even basic Force users can fall to their deaths. I mean, just think about it for 2 seconds.

[neatoman]

Did you buy a ticket to see it?

Yes I did.

[Sumac]

Here comes the comics and books explaining everything. "Meet the Palpatines" and all. *yawn*
Make it a comedy and I'd watch the **** out of it!

Not that anything can harm writing integrity of the Star Wars anymore now. :lol:

[Andrew NDB]

Once again, RT proves that critics and fans live in two different realities.

Moreso than ever in the last couple of years. Woke stuff/diversity stuff gets bonus points that it wouldn't otherwise deserve with today's critics. And with ROTS, the same critics that gave TLJ a 95% are just angry that ROTS isn't woke like TLJ. Guaranteed, if ROTS had a bunch more "f*** the patriarchy"/"kill the past" kind of stuff it'd be firmly in the 90s.

[Leo656]

But would it deserve to be? Either way?

Again, I haven't seen it yet but discounting the soundtrack and visual effects and going simply by the plot, it sounds equally bad, just from another direction.

Sigh. F'n Mouse.

[AquaParade]

I feel like this franchise needs a Modern Spaceballs. Something to take the complete piss out of the whole conversation and get all sides laughing together again.

A comically large needle to pop the balloon and end the incessant helium hiss of fans in agony.

Just a gut feeling. I don't know **** about Star Wars. Spaceballs could be the "Coming out of Our Shells" tour for Star Wars fans, for all I know. Though I'm pretty sure that would actually be the Holiday Special.

[IMJ]

I feel like this franchise needs a Modern Spaceballs. Something to take the complete piss out of the whole conversation and get all sides laughing together again.

A comically large needle to pop the balloon and end the incessant helium hiss of fans in agony.

Just a gut feeling. I don't know **** about Star Wars. Spaceballs could be the "Coming out of Our Shells" tour for Star Wars fans, for all I know. Though I'm pretty sure that would actually be the Holiday Special.


They released two sequels to Spaceballs already. One was a Spaceballs animated series that was pretty good and the other was called "The Last Jedi" and it sucked.

[Leo656]

So I'm confused. I keep reading stuff and it really just makes this thing seem like they wrote it over a weekend.

So the Ancient Sith Dagger points to the Death Star II wreckage... But the dagger is thousands of years old and Death Star II crashed, what, 20-30 years ago in-universe? Am I missing something? C'mon.

Also, I keep reading articles from The Usual Idiots bemoaning the fact that Rose Tico was pushed aside a'la Jar-Jar, "In response to the sexist racist geek fanboys on the Internet."

Ummm... In the case of BOTH characters, Rose and Jar-Jar, I'm preeeeeetty sure it had MORE to do with the fact that their action figures collected dust on store shelves for over a year, even after being marked down to $4.99 on Clearance. Nobody cares about Jar-Jar and nobody cares about Rose. Same reason, too: Terribly written, added nothing. Kids don't buy toys of stuff they hate.

Anecdotal, but also debunking the Sexist/Racist theory with regard to Rose, her figures were the ONLY ones that I personally saw peg-warming to that degree. At most stores, she was the only figure you could find, usually about 15-20 of them. Rey's toys sold, Finn's toys sold... Huh, must be a conspiracy.

Jesus, the plain obtuse idiocy of these people and their stubborn refusal to see things simply As They Are.

[Andrew NDB]

I don't know if it's said specifically how old the dagger is. But the way it's used, it could be that while the dagger is super old, the etchings into it that reveal the Death Star II stuff are newish. Like made by whatever that Sith cult character is that died in the giant snake tunnel probably.

Saw the movie. Man, that was a lot. A bit exhausting to watch, and I don't mean that in a good or bad way really. It's very, very busy with everybody running around from scene to scene and not much time to catch a breath. So many new characters. Some big missed opportunities and strange choices but I enjoyed it. It's far more consequential than TFA or TLJ, though all of this is coming too late to feel as meaningful as it should. Also way too many callbacks to the OT. I'm very, very tired of seeing the Millennium Falcon evading TIE Fighters in tight spaces. Each one of these new ones is just trying to redo the general beats of the OT, but going BIGGER. Luke trained with a lightsaber droid on a ship... Rey trains with a lightsaber droid while running through an obstacle course on a tightrope; there was an even bigger Death Star than the first one but now there is 10,000 Star Destroyers all with Death Star lasers, etc., etc.. I guess all I hoped for coming into this movie was at least a few good scenes and moments, and I got those. It was fun having Lando around again. C3PO finally matters again. Even Chewbacca got some nice use. R2 draws the definite short stick.

It's also sad how overreactionary 7, 8, and 9 have proven to be. 7 is overreactionary to the prequels to a point where JJ was just tasked to do a 4 remake. 8 was overreactionary to 7 with everyone complaining it was a remake of 4 (so they let Rian Johnson come in and just do whatever). 9 is overreactionary to 8 because nobody liked 8 and made no one care about Solo, so enter in the test audiences/test screenings and Kennedy keeping creative control. It's unfortunate.

My personal rankings nowadays: 4, 6, 5, 1, 3, 2, 9, 7, 8.

[Turo602]

Yeah, The Rise of Skywalker really feels like it's trying to speed through an Episode 8 we never got. Rey training, Finn and Poe having backgrounds, and Palpatine's sudden return, these are all things Episode 8 should have explored. But instead we got a bunch of nothing from Kathleen Kennedy's cuck. Even having the whole cast together was a good decision but the fact that it's happening in the last film is ridiculous. All these things made the characters more likeable, but it's all really too little too late.

I also absolutely hate the very little regard they have for the prequels. They're part of Star Wars whether people like it or not and they should have done more with it in this trilogy. I thought The Rise of Skywalker was supposed to bring all the trilogies together, yet we never got a single scene of a prequel cast member interacting with any of the original or sequel cast members, which would ultimately be what brings the entire series together.

This whole trilogy has just completely undermined the first 6 films while trying to capitalize on the nostalgia of the original 3, yet it misses all the opportunities to bring along meaningful conclusions to not just the old characters, but even theirs. Seriously, what the f*ck was the point of Kylo Ren, Finn, and Poe? Why does anyone care about these characters and what have they really contributed? Why is Anakin no longer a central figure? He was the chosen one yet Rey is the one who brings balance to the force? We had the rise and fall of Vader for 6 films, this sequel trilogy should have dealt with his redemption. Otherwise, this whole trilogy hasn't really justified its existence in any way.

[AquaParade]

The weirdest thing about this franchise is the retroactive love for the prequel trilogy. Those films are colossal trainwrecks. It's really hard for me to understand how people can find them more enjoyable than the new films.
I might get it though.

If it is just the fact that the prequels feel less market-tested, fine, I get that. But even with that on their side, the writing, acting, and visuals are so laughable that I found them to be enjoyable in a "I can't believe this happened" sort of way, upon rewatch.

The new films have impressive visuals, much better acting, dialogue. Flimsy story at times, but same with the prequels. Characters are a mixed bag in both as well.

Just my perspective. I sort of get it, because Star Wars is closely tied to George's initial vision, so for some people, I can see how it's all about getting the pure stuff, from the mind that created the universe, regardless of awful execution.

I was going to say that it sort or seems like preferring TMNT volume 4 to IDW.
Which I do.
Not sure if I think it's a completely fair comparison but maybe close enough.

[ZariusTwo]

The weirdest thing about this franchise is the retroactive love for the prequel trilogy. Those films are colossal trainwrecks. It's really hard for me to understand how people can find them more enjoyable than the new films.
I might get it though.

If it is just the fact that the prequels feel less market-tested, fine, I get that. But even with that on their side, the writing, acting, and visuals are so laughable that I found them to be enjoyable in a "I can't believe this happened" sort of way, upon rewatch.

The new films have impressive visuals, much better acting, dialogue. Flimsy story at times, but same with the prequels. Characters are a mixed bag in both as well.

Just my perspective. I sort of get it, because Star Wars is closely tied to George's initial vision, so for some people, I can see how it's all about getting the pure stuff, from the mind that created the universe, regardless of awful execution.

I was going to say that it sort or seems like preferring TMNT volume 4 to IDW.
Which I do.
Not sure if I think it's a completely fair comparison but maybe close enough.

The prequels have a fine story, but I agree, the execution is very sloppy...and they do have their fans, for them the prequels were their whole childhood just as the OT was ours , and let's not forget the expanded universe material like The Clone Wars really helped to flesh out that era and course correct a couple of it's own mistakes and squandered opportunities.

[Andrew NDB]

The weirdest thing about this franchise is the retroactive love for the prequel trilogy.

The sequel trilogy is bringing about new appreciation for the PT's trying out new ideas and not just copying and en-biggenning (let's make that a word) the OT, however arguably flawed they may or may not have been.

It's as simple as that. We need new sh*t.

[IMJ]

I think what's important here is that we learned from the Rise of Skywalker that evil - even Galactic evil, can be defeated by making an "X".

Take this deep Hollywood wisdom with you through your life - when you run into evil, or when Rian Johnson calls you a racist, or Kathleen Kennedy calls you a misogynist, just make an "X" and you can defeat them.

[Xav]

Alleged Lucasfilm Insider on TROS production

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/ecromq/what_i_know_about_tros_production/

[Shark_Blade]

Reylo lips kiss was not intended as romantic kiss, more like siblings kiss akin to Luke and Leia’s kiss. JJ Abrams explains in vid:

https://twitter.com/rizeofkylo/status/1208449366828158976?s=21

It’s still incest tbh what the actual ****

[Turo602]

Reylo lips kiss was not intended as romantic kiss, more like siblings kiss akin to Luke and Leia’s kiss. JJ Abrams explains in vid:

https://twitter.com/rizeofkylo/status/1208449366828158976?s=21

It’s still incest tbh what the actual ****

Siblings kiss? WTF? Who the f*ck kisses their siblings?

[MikeandRaph87]

Reylo lips kiss was not intended as romantic kiss, more like siblings kiss akin to Luke and Leia’s kiss. JJ Abrams explains in vid:

https://twitter.com/rizeofkylo/status/1208449366828158976?s=21

It’s still incest tbh what the actual ****

That was my biggest gripe with the film after processing it. Where did the kiss come from? I would not lip lock my sister figure, hug sure, but kiss? Its like step cousins kissing. Maybe not related but related in a way and I don't care for the creative decision even now knowing it was not romantic.


A lot of the film seemed to be damage control from The Last Jedi and Carrie Fisher's death. That is where my other gripe comes in, I wanted Luke to live ( well, at least until 9's climax) and to create satisfaction with the fandom and portrayer why not let Luke be able to step in and out of the force? Life force donating as a power...okay. But life force fades from holding a projection? If Palpatine can live when he died...which brings me to...

No explanation with Palatine's survival. This will likely be dealt with later on in one form or another. Does it negate Anakin's sacrifice? If this was a perfected clone carrying on the original's work perhaps so. If Snoke is a lab creation instead of a giant humanoid species then why can't Episode'9's Palatine be the perfected clone which would preserve Episode 6's climax and allow for the sequel trilogy at the same time. We will have to see what is done with it though.

[Sumac]

I wonder, how Rat will spin the failure of TROS?

Right now it is obvious they didn't pay shill and influencers to save the movie from being ripped apart by critics and fans. And it seems there is no push back to call people who don't like this movie "bigots, racists and sexists". At least not yet.

IMO, it means Disney knew it will be a failure and decided to sacrifice Episode 9, which means Kennedy would be ousted quite soon (which is a good thing, because, making **** from the biggest media franchise in the world is a rare talent). I don't think Disney will kick her out, because, it won't look "progressive", but she certainly won't be able to make any decisions from now on.

Also, it most likely mean that JJ and Cryman Johnson won't be allowed anywhere near Star Wars. Which is also a good thing. I'd hope JJ will suffer a major setback in his carrier, but given that pretty much everyone knew TROS will be a failure I think it won't impact him very much. Like, in this case he was just a driver who attempted to guide truck to the collision as careful as possible.

On a separate note, JJ now is a unique director who had a rare opportunity to take part in tanking two massive space franchises: Star Trek and Star Wars. To complete the trinity he should be assigned to the remake of the StarGate!
Just joking.

[CyberCubed]

Just got back from seeing it, some positives and negatives:

+ I liked that the new trio finally got an adventure together. This movie did a pretty good job of making Rey, Finn and Poe seem like close friends, it's a damn shame they waited till the last movie of the trilogy to actually do this.

+ Chewbacca, C-3PO, R2D2 and Lando all were handled fine. I thought they killed Chewbacca at first and I would have been pissed, but I'm glad they didn't. Also Chewy finally got a medal at the end of the movie after being robbed for decades at the end of the original movie!

+ Kylo Ren is still one of the best characters of this trilogy, he went from angry/rage inducing Vader fanboy to a somewhat sympathetic character at the end. The Kylo/Rey romance felt like it could have worked, but I'm glad it was tragic than if she survived.

+ The action set-pieces were good, especially Rey vs. Kylo in their lightsaber battle on the wreck in the waves

+ They did the best they could with Leia given the circumstances. Also like the flashback that she trained as a Jedi.

+ Palpatine was fine, I don't like how we really don't know how he survived (no I don't care if comics or books explain it), but it was alright.


Now the negatives:

- Too many damn new pointless characters. We already saw this problem with the orange alien lady (who did nothing in this film), and Rose (who basically did nothing in this film), from the first two movies. Now we have a new black lady and the other woman Poe knew that I don't even remember their names. LMAO, and now the new droid sidekick has its own smaller droid sidekick. LOL, why add even MORE characters when they have trouble handling the main cast?

- The new villains all continually went out as lame as I thought they would. The Knights of Ren were the jobbers I knew they would be, but I did like that Kylo Ren killed them instead of Rey. Hux was pointless the whole trilogy although the spy aspect was somewhat interesting. The new general felt like a Tarkin expie but lamer. Also what the hell is the point of the Red Storm Troopers? They got even less screentime in the film I thought they would. And then we all know the female silver Storm Trooper whose name I forgot and Snoke went out like they were nothing too. Dear god, almost every new villain completely sucked this entire trilogy. I laughed every single time one of them died.

- The first half of the movie felt like a fetch quest from a videogame, I have no idea why they always do this. It was the same thing as TLJ's Casino subplot, do we really need to see them waste valuable screentime out of a only 2 hour movie just going to random planets looking for stuff?

- Kylo repairing his mask was pointless and idiotic, like J.J. wanted to stick it to Rian. But the whole mask was so stupid to begin with and made Kylo hard to understand when he spoke. Thank god he didn't wear it for the last half of the movie.

- Don't really like how Palpatine was finished off. Rey just easily blocks his lightning with two sabers after hearing Jedi and he's done for....meh.

- Final battle was VERY rushed. The whole fight against all those Star Destroyers just wasn't believeable and went by too fast.


Besides that things I'm indifferent about is Rey being a Palpatine, yes it sounds fanfiction as hell but overall I don't really care. Her declaring herself a Skywalker at the end made even less sense though, the entire Skywalker line is dead.

Overall it's a mixed bag, but it handled stuff better than I thought it would. Very surprised to see Harrison Ford again, I did not expect him to ever come back for another movie as brief as his scene was.

[IMJ]

Right now it is obvious they didn't pay shill and influencers to save the movie from being ripped apart by critics and fans

To any critical thinkers here, I would say to consider this, even if only for a minute....

Consider a film's marketing budget and the current RT fan score and how many ratings popped up as of yesterday. Now consider that huge marketing budget against the fact that Disney could buy out only 30 seats at early afternoon showings at as many theaters as ssayyyyy.... even only $60,000 could buy them. Think about how many shill reviews that converts into from their marketing department. Rotten Tomatoes is a gigantic industry lie.

Now consider the "critics". Many of those critics took what was basically a political messaging position on TLJ. This movie disregards TLJ. So by proxy they "have to" support their initial review for "integrity" and trash this one. "Have to" as a function of being certain kinds of people.

[sdp]

Yup, pretty much agree with Andrew and Cubed and glad they're opinions are pretty much the same as mine, it seems most people want to just hate the film when it's rather ok for the most part. Just a clean up the mess kinda movie.

As far as the prequels being more liked now I think it's two things, one people saw that at least they tried something new, nostalgia but especially nostalgia for those kids who grew up with the movies and are now adults and never hated them. I personally never hated the prequels except 3. The prequels fail at trying something new, the sequel trilogy fails at doing the same thing.

The sequel trilogy could've been so much better, it had great ideas, phasma, kylo, rey, finn, bb8 all had so much potential, but they were all wasted away. TLJ only succeeded in making Kylo a cool character, TFA succeeded with BB8 and perhaps finn for a bit, finn should've become and grown into someone in TLJ. ROS succeeds in getting us to care about certain characters like the trio finally working together, Hell Leia as a Jedi was amazing. But it was wasted away.

Can we agree that Colin Trevorrow could've made a better film than Johnson and a better final film than JJ?


Besides that things I'm indifferent about is Rey being a Palpatine, yes it sounds fanfiction as hell but overall I don't really care. Her declaring herself a Skywalker at the end made even less sense though, the entire Skywalker line is dead.

Well JJ did mention that Rey/Kylo's kiss was like a siblings kiss, that's what their relationship is. And if Palatine did impregnate Schmi in a way even if it's not meant to be taken that way, we can do enough mental gymnastics to come to the conclusion that since both Kylo and Rey are the offspring of Palpatine in a way then they're both Skywalkers as well.

[CyberCubed]

Rey and Kylo have no relation at all, I don't know why people keep bringing up the sibling thing. Kylo is the son of Han and Leia, Rey's parents were shown in the flashback and she is the grandaughter of Palpatine. And no I don't think Palpatine impregnated Anakin's mother through force powers, no matter what comic says so.

Let's discuss the new villains of this trilogy, which they dropped the ball with entirely besides Kylo Ren:

- Captain Phasma. Does nothing in two movies, just a shiny Storm Trooper.
- Snoke, does nothing but sit on a chair and be killed off, good thing he was retconed as just a Palpatine puppet/clone or whatever he was. Best thing Rian Johnson did was kill him off, I fear what J.J. would have done with Snoke otherwise trying to pass him off as interesting.
- Hux. Kinda a pointless character, I disliked him in all 3 films and he added little.
- Knights of Ren. LMAO, they got 10 seconds of screentime in TFA, were absent in TLJ, and basically only appear in this film for Kylo Ren to quickly kill them off. The definition of useless jobbers like I knew they would be.
- Red Storm Troopers. LOL, I can't believe the marketing material and posters tried to make a big deal out of this, they got far less screentime in the movie I could have ever imagined. I think they have maybe 30 seconds of on-air screentime between shots.
- The new older general in this movie (forgot his name), pretty much just a Tarkin stand-in.


I think the big problem with this trilogy is they weren't able to come up with a single good memorable new villain besides Kylo Ren. When I was a a kid/early teen I at least like Darth Maul, Grievuous, from the prequels even if they just looked cool. Can't imagine any kid these days wanting a toy of these guys, but maybe silver storm trooper and red storm trooper sell these days.

[IMJ]

Rey and Kylo have no relation at all, I don't know why people keep bringing up the sibling thing. Kylo is the son of Han and Leia, Rey's parents were shown in the flashback and she is the grandaughter of Palpatine. And no I don't think Palpatine impregnated Anakin's mother through force powers, no matter what comic says so.

Let's discuss the new villains of this trilogy, which they dropped the ball with entirely besides Kylo Ren:

- Captain Phasma. Does nothing in two movies, just a shiny Storm Trooper.
- Snoke, does nothing but sit on a chair and be killed off, good thing he was retconed as just a Palpatine puppet/clone or whatever he was. Best thing Rian Johnson did was kill him off, I fear what J.J. would have done with Snoke otherwise trying to pass him off as interesting.
- Hux. Kinda a pointless character, I disliked him in all 3 films and he added little.
- Knights of Ren. LMAO, they got 10 seconds of screentime in TFA, were absent in TLJ, and basically only appear in this film for Kylo Ren to quickly kill them off. The definition of useless jobbers like I knew they would be.
- Red Storm Troopers. LOL, I can't believe the marketing material and posters tried to make a big deal out of this, they got far less screentime in the movie I could have ever imagined. I think they have maybe 30 seconds of on-air screentime between shots.
- The new older general in this movie (forgot his name), pretty much just a Tarkin stand-in.


I think the big problem with this trilogy is they weren't able to come up with a single good memorable new villain besides Kylo Ren. When I was a a kid/early teen I at least like Darth Maul, Grievuous, from the prequels even if they just looked cool. Can't imagine any kid these days wanting a toy of these guys, but maybe silver storm trooper and red storm trooper sell these days.

People struggle with the "Palpatine created Anakin" thing in relation to the Kylo/Rey relationship.

I agree with you regarding the villains, but not that they weren't memorable. More like that almost all of those issues are a product of The Last Jedi killing the payoff, heading and momentum of the trilogy story.

Someone above said something like TROS was a movie to clean up the mess. That's pretty accurate. This trilogy is a mess and TROS suffered for it and tried to fix it.

[MikeandRaph87]

Someone above said something like TROS was a movie to clean up the mess. That's pretty accurate. This trilogy is a mess and TROS suffered for it and tried to fix it.

That was me. I believe the that despite whatever he says diplomatically to the public J.J. was trying to clean up Rian's mess for the fans. Had Trevorrow got his way I think it would have made for a best possible film than what we got. I believe that if J.J. did the whole trilogy then it would have been decent as well, but The Rise of Skywalker was held back because of The Last Jedi.

[AquaParade]

It's almost hard to remember how positive of a comeback The Force Awakens felt like at the time. Despite peoples feelings about it, at the time, it felt like a huge success with fans. And it was, compared to the divide there is now.


And personally, I found it pretty mindblowing going from ROTS to TFA. I think it's hard to argue that it wasn't a great first outing for Disney's Star Wars. Now that we have hindsight, I think the narrative is muddled, but I think they took the right approach to begin with. It was a great way for the franchise to find it's feet again.

[sdp]

TFA ****ing sucked and is the main factor and not TLJ the sequel trilogy sucks, yeah TLJ was not good but the set up was done in TFA, most of the things everybody hates, Rey being a nobody, Kylo being a darth vader clone(in fact he was worse off in TFA just a whiny darth vader, at least TLJ made him interesting), Snoke being a palpatine rip off, Solo dying before meeting Luke and Leia, Leia being a boring general instead of a kick ass Jedi, empire vs rebels making no sense, death star that destroyed all of the republic, etc etc. TFA was just a success because people chose to believe it was what they wanted and Disney could do no wrong after handling Marvel.

As far as villains it's true that they're handled horrible in the sequel trilogy, many things I've already mentioned them in previous SWs threads but why the hell not:

Kylo Ren: Interesting but at the end of the day it was just Darth Vader's story again, the only interesting part was his connection to Rey and that started in TLJ.

Captain Phasma: Awesome looking character, treated like trash in TFA, treated like even more trash in TLJ, not even in ROS, what a huge waste, coudl've been the next boba fett as she was hyped to be.

Snoke: Palpatine rip off, him dying in TLJ was indeed the best thing that could've happened to Snoke, at least he had no purpose but to be a puppet of palpatine, I'd rather have that than just Palpatine 2.0 but not palpatine.

Sith Troopers: meh, don't care that they suck.

General Hex: Boring character, boring death.

New General: Interesting but too little too late, I don't even know his name.

What was the threat again? Why did the Empire/first order never die after the republic reformed? why? why?

There are still people saying that TLJ was glorious and ROS sucks because it didn't follow up on TLJ. Follow up on what? What mental gymnastics are they even doing to actually believe those words they type?

[Shark_Blade]

Reylo incest family tree
https://i.imgur.com/MKhbyfH.jpg

[AquaParade]

Reylo incest family tree
https://i.imgur.com/MKhbyfH.jpg

Whatever. I'd never condone this **** on earth, but in a galaxy far away? Let's get weird. It's boring enough that half the characters we meet speak English.

[Andrew NDB]

It's almost hard to remember how positive of a comeback The Force Awakens felt like at the time. Despite peoples feelings about it, at the time, it felt like a huge success with fans. And it was, compared to the divide there is now.


And personally, I found it pretty mindblowing going from ROTS to TFA. I think it's hard to argue that it wasn't a great first outing for Disney's Star Wars. Now that we have hindsight, I think the narrative is muddled, but I think they took the right approach to begin with. It was a great way for the franchise to find it's feet again.

TFA was a dead wrong approach, IMO, though it set the stage for something that could have been serviceable, at least. TLJ did nothing with the setup.

[AquaParade]

TFA was just a success because people chose to believe it was what they wanted and Disney could do no wrong after handling Marvel.


This is where you lose me. I bought a ticket and the blu-ray, not because I was brainwashed or deceiving myself. I just enjoyed the movie and supported it, helping lead to it's success.

I'm not negating any of your criticisms of the film itself though.

TFA was a dead wrong approach, IMO, though it set the stage for something that could have been serviceable, at least. TLJ did nothing with the setup.

Fair enough. I feel that a safe bet was sort of what they needed at the time, but our perspectives on the franchise are different, I think, and I'm fine admitting you probably know more about the property than I do. So your opinion is arguably worth more, but yeah.

[Sumac]

To any critical thinkers here, I would say to consider this, even if only for a minute....

Consider a film's marketing budget and the current RT fan score and how many ratings popped up as of yesterday. Now consider that huge marketing budget against the fact that Disney could buy out only 30 seats at early afternoon showings at as many theaters as ssayyyyy.... even only $60,000 could buy them. Think about how many shill reviews that converts into from their marketing department. Rotten Tomatoes is a gigantic industry lie.

Now consider the "critics". Many of those critics took what was basically a political messaging position on TLJ. This movie disregards TLJ. So by proxy they "have to" support their initial review for "integrity" and trash this one. "Have to" as a function of being certain kinds of people.
I am sorry, but I don't buy it.
Unless Disney ruled by fanatics, which is unlikely, since they've back pedaled on a lot of TLJ stuff, I don't see what they can get from allowing to **** on their own movie and losing colossal money and reputation in the process.
It's a definition of shooting oneself in a foot.

Besides, it does nothing to make TLJ better in the eyes of people who hated it. It just validates their opinion that people in charge of TROS inside Disney also hate TLJ.

[CyberCubed]

That was me. I believe the that despite whatever he says diplomatically to the public J.J. was trying to clean up Rian's mess for the fans. Had Trevorrow got his way I think it would have made for a best possible film than what we got. I believe that if J.J. did the whole trilogy then it would have been decent as well, but The Rise of Skywalker was held back because of The Last Jedi.

Most of this movie continued off of TLJ though. Killing off Snoke was a great idea because he was a crap character to begin with. Rey's parents wound up being important by proxy anyway.

The whole Rey/Kylo Ren stuff from TLJ continues directly into this movie, so I don't see how it was any different. Same with Luke being dead only given Rey encouragement to not stay at the islands.

Only noticeable thing this movie really did was turn Rose into a complete background character, and I honestly feel bad for the actress because she basically became an extra in the movie.

[Andrew NDB]

Fair enough. I feel that a safe bet was sort of what they needed at the time, but our perspectives on the franchise are different, I think, and I'm fine admitting you probably know more about the property than I do. So your opinion is arguably worth more, but yeah.

It was not what they needed at the time, it was what Kathleen Kennedy thought they needed at the time. She created the narrative that Star Wars and the franchise was so damaged after the prequel trilogy that they had no choice but to go back to Empire vs. Rebels and a remake of ANH, and JJ was her hired thug to make it happen.

The narrative is false because the PT made a ton of money, has plenty of fans, and even most of the fans that dislike them respect them for trying something original. Plus the PT spawned the "Clone Wars" cartoon that is fairly universally liked.

[CyberCubed]

People have said this movie retroactively makes the entire 9 movie series now the saga of Palpatine, rather than the story of Skywalkers. And it's true.

The entire Skywalker line is dead and died with Kylo Ren. Rey is a Palpatine and his blood lives on through her. Palpatine won, he trolled 3 generations of Skywalkers and now he has a granddaughter as the strongest force wielder in the galaxy. She may not be part of the dark side, but she's his legacy.

I wonder if this ever came into J.J's head. Rey calling herself a Skywalker at the end of the movie doesn't make it so.

[Shark_Blade]

Theater’s mad reaction when Rey revealed her full name as “Rey Skywalker”. :tlol:

https://twitter.com/quakesaltzman/status/1208419047689379840?s=21

[ranger_scout]

Did I think this one of the greatest sci-fi and space movies ever made? However, I am still glad that I decided to go see it in theaters. Questions were answered and overall things were wrapped up nicely.

Leia’s death handled very well. She used the last bit of her force energy to save her son from the dark side. I also thought the unused footage of her training Rey and the scenes of her on the base for the story just fine. Luke also returned to being the character we remembered from the original trilogy. Seeing Han again was a nice little surprise. Rey learned that she was a Palpatine, but she was able to resist going down a path that her grandfather had taken. Her parents would be very proud of her. Ben/Kylo Ren made a noble sacrifice in the end. Lando wasn’t really given a whole lot to do, but I was glad that he was able to take part in some of the action. Poe and Finn continued to be solid heroes. I do wish that they hadn’t but Rose in the background so much.

[Andrew NDB]

Only thing I had trouble believing with Leia was...

... how she apparently knew all along that Rey was a Palpatine. Like, really? That first scene where Rey walks up to Leia in TFA, Leia is really mentally going "oh wow, Palpatine's granddaughter"? Eh... I dunno about that.

[Roseangelo]

Only thing I had trouble believing with Leia was...

... how she apparently knew all along that Rey was a Palpatine. Like, really? That first scene where Rey walks up to Leia in TFA, Leia is really mentally going "oh wow, Palpatine's granddaughter"? Eh... I dunno about that.

I don't disagree with this sentiment, but at the same time, Leia also said that she had always known Luke was her brother, while I can't say I see that in A New Hope.

I don't think it's so much an immediate realization, but a gradual understanding.

[IMJ]

I am sorry, but I don't buy it.
Unless Disney ruled by fanatics, which is unlikely, since they've back pedaled on a lot of TLJ stuff, I don't see what they can get from allowing to **** on their own movie and losing colossal money and reputation in the process.
It's a definition of shooting oneself in a foot.

Besides, it does nothing to make TLJ better in the eyes of people who hated it. It just validates their opinion that people in charge of TROS inside Disney also hate TLJ.

******** on their own movie? You don't understand, my friend. The argument is that they buy tickets to leave positive VIEWER reviews,not negative critic reviews...

[Sumac]

******** on their own movie? You don't understand, my friend. The argument is that they buy tickets to leave positive VIEWER reviews,not negative critic reviews...
I don't think it help very much.

[Leo656]

Honestly, when the smoke clears, I think for as much as people crap on it, TFA is going to be the clear "winner" of this trilogy. It doesn't try to do much but it succeeds beautifully at what it DOES try to do, and sometimes you have to meet the filmmakers halfway whether you agree with their creative choices or not. Retread or not, the story made sense, the characters were likeable, and the ending left things wide-open for the next two movies to do all kinds of awesome sh*t with the foundation that movie set.

Then TLJ fumbled and ROS over-corrected. Both of those movies are full of plot holes, filler, and needless junk. Like Cubed said, pretty much every character we were introduced to in TFA seemed like they MIGHT get to do some Really Cool Sh*t... and they never did. But at least it SEEMED like they had a lot of potential.

It's like how "Secret of the Ooze" maybe isn't a terrible TMNT movie, but it's a terrible follow-up to the first one. TMNT II and III don't retroactively make the first movie worse, but man, watching the first one you could write a dozen sequels in your head that were much better and nothing, NOTHING like the ones we actually got.

Same deal. TFA sets up a really awesome little game board full of neat little pieces, and you as a viewer are all like "Okay, maybe I would have done things differently but we've got a lot to work with going forward. Let's see what happens next!" And then it's a f*cking popcorn fart. Someone just kicks the table over and sends the pieces flying, sets up NEW pieces (I barely got to look at the old ones and you're giving me new ones?), and tells you "Forget it, I know we set up the other game, and it took like two hours to set up, but forget it, now we're playing Chutes and Ladders because I said so." And you half-heartedly play along, but you still wish you were playing the other game because you had barely even gotten started with it yet. And then they do it AGAIN halfway through the new game, and now you just want it to be over so everyone can go home and you can read. This was not the experience you signed up for.

It's a shame. I think this all could've been great even if TFA stayed exactly the same. Yeah, they could have told a Brand New Story or done a Brand New Thing but Disney was scared of breaking their new toy, so what we got was fine for what it was. Too familiar or not, they STILL could have used that exact same movie and given us an awesome trilogy out of it.

ALL they had to do was sit down with a pen and paper and PLAN for a goddamn trilogy. That's ALL they had to do. :ohwell:

I mean, I know that ever since Empire, a huge part of the movies has been introducing new characters just to sell more action figures, and that's fine. It's fine! It's not only a part of Star Wars, it's become a part of movies in general. But... geez, this series was REALLY bad about it, because they framed a lot of these characters as if they were MORE than just a new toy, and... they weren't. SO many characters were clearly presented as being important, and in the end, NOPE, just an action figure. Snoke, Phasma, BB-8, Knights of Ren... all just New Toys. And that's a little annoying.

I will say, however, that I actually like Kylo's mask. Mostly because that boy's face is 80% nose. What an unfortunate-looking fellow. :lol: So yeah, let him keep it, it's fine. :trazz:

[Andrew NDB]

TFA will emerge as the most pure of the sequel trilogy only by the virtue that it was shot well, set up a whole bunch of stuff, and left it at that. JJ did his job and walked away, expecting to have nothing else to do with anything. Others were expected to pick up what he was throwing down in 8 and 9.

But that's all.

[AquaParade]

The one thing I want from this trilogy is more Kylo Ren. I thought he was sort of a dork when I first saw him in TFA, but the character has grown on me, and Adam Driver has proven himself to he an excellent actor. Really.hoping they can give him a well written spin-off series.

I was all about Captain Phasma but they somehow blew that twice.

My least favorite thing in ROS were the fakeout deaths. So tired of those. Even when done in spectacular fashion, they are frustrating conceptually. Here, they hardly attempt to even make it worth the payoff.

[Andrew NDB]

In the original version Chewbacca did, in fact die on that transport. And Kylo did die after that shove over the edge. But that was a very different thing.

A ton of Force Ghosts came and restored Rey after Palpatine sapped her. He became restored to Matt Smith levels, and there was a lightsaber fight.

[AquaParade]

In the original version Chewbacca did, in fact die on that transport. And Kylo did die after that shove over the edge. But that was a very different thing.

This is pretty believable. Like I said, the fakeouts are bad enough in movies like Transformers or Black Panther, but they didn't even really seem to attempt to do much with this one. Feels very "nvm".

I slightly wonder it it was meant to be a catalyst for the main thrust of the story, at some point, because the way it is done is actually quite haunting. Had me thinking of MCU's Civil War incident with Scarlet Witch.

[CyberCubed]

The original marketing material does make it seem like a lot of stuff was cut. Remember that yellow alien slug creature pilot on the poster? It got like 5 seconds of screentime in the actual movie. Remember how promoted the new Red Storm Troopers were? They literally got less than 30 seconds of screentime in the movie. Knights of Ren? They did absolutely nothing but get killed by Kylo in less than 20 seconds.

I also get the feeling a lot of Luke's scenes were cut, he was barely in the movie. He got one short scene with Rey and then nothing else till the very end. I know he was originally going to appear as a Force Ghost fighting Palpatine, but even besides that it feels like he had some other scenes that are gone.

I also don't understand why this movie introduced 2 new female characters with essentially the same role Rose had. The new black lady was introduced....to give Finn a female to talk to...the same thing Rose was. Only now they're both black! Oh and the new black woman talks to Lando at the end...because they're both black! What was going on in J.J.'s mind? And then the other woman was just to show you that Poe wasn't gay.

Likewise every new villain in the entire trilogy was nothing more than throwaway fodder besides Kylo Ren. I hated Snoke so him being a Palpatine puppet is fine with me, but even besides that it's still odd.

[Shark_Blade]

When being chased by jet fighters(?), Poe was light skipping the Millennium Falcon and I remember suddenly there’s a big yellow alien screaming in fear with its large mouth gaping behind them in the cockpit as they were approaching a gigantic monster.

We never see that big yellow alien again, nor did we see it in the movie earlier. Heck was it even in the last Jedi cause I don’t even remember seeing it?

[Sumac]

More curiously Matt Smith character has been completely cut from the movie, despite early promotions making a big deal out of him.

[Vegita-San]

I all but forgot about that guy being in the movie.

- latest conspiracy theory is disney spending money to keep RT score for audience at 86%.

[Shark_Blade]

So I guess it was left over cut accidentally/carelessly put into the final movie? A mess lol

More curiously Matt Smith character has been completely cut from the movie, despite early promotions making a big deal out of him.
Yeah Rose got reduced appearances but he seemed to cease to exist altogether.

[MikeandRaph87]

More curiously Matt Smith character has been completely cut from the movie, despite early promotions making a big deal out of him.

Who is Matt Smith?

The horseback warrior is meant to be Finn's girlfriend with Rose pushed aside and Kerri Russell is meant to be Poe's girlfriend. Independent and strong yet there as a love interest.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

Who is Matt Smith?.

He played the Eleventh Doctor in Doctor Who

[AquaParade]

This is starting to sound nearly as interesting as the production on Justice League. Really curious as to what happened.

[IMJ]

Who is Matt Smith?

The horseback warrior is meant to be Finn's girlfriend with Rose pushed aside and Kerri Russell is meant to be Poe's girlfriend. Independent and strong yet there as a love interest.

Poe's girlfriend refusing to kiss him as meta-commentary on the MeToo movement.

[CyberCubed]

Also anyone laugh when "Dark Rey" hissed at Rey during the nightmare sequence? I'm not sure if that was intended to be funny or not but I honestly burst out laughing in that scene. :lol:

[sdp]

In the original version Chewbacca did, in fact die on that transport. And Kylo did die after that shove over the edge. But that was a very different thing.

A ton of Force Ghosts came and restored Rey after Palpatine sapped her. He became restored to Matt Smith levels, and there was a lightsaber fight.

That actually sound awesome, would've liked that. I would've been sad had Chewbacca died in the vehicle since it felt so rushed and without much emotional weight.


This is starting to sound nearly as interesting as the production on Justice League. Really curious as to what happened.


Well apparently Lucas was brought back with JJ to fix ROS after Colin left and TLJ was not being received well, but then Disney got nervous again because of reactions to solo and changed things again.

[Sumac]

It basically has become Disney's Batman V Superman.
Just without change of directors.

[sdp]

The best part about Lucas, Laird etc, is that they love their creations so much they don't care if they lose money since they've already gained so much and they would do whatever they wanted and disregard opinions. This was also a bad thing though but big studios have so much invested that they make these decisions when fear of not getting their ROI.

[Andrew NDB]

More curiously Matt Smith character has been completely cut from the movie, despite early promotions making a big deal out of him.

Yep. He was Fully Rejuvenated Emperor, who got a whole lightsaber fight scene with Rey. Things went full Dark Empire there before Kennedy pulled the rug out from that.

I love that the original idea for that last battle seemed inspired from Final Fantasy IV.

[Leo656]

It basically has become Disney's Batman V Superman.
Just without change of directors.

I think the Justice League analogy actually fits way better.

Nothing really changed behind-the-scenes on BvS, they just cut 30 minutes for time and then reinstated those scenes for the Blu-ray. But WB wasn't otherwise meddling with it
too much otherwise. In Justice League and Rise of Skywalker there was massive creative upheaval at every step of the creative process, AND in both cases they were re-shooting huge chunks of the movie up until the release.

JL and ROS definitely have more in common insofar as the wacky stuff going on behind the curtain. It aggravates me how much studios involve themselves nowadays. I know it's their money and everything but still.

[Andrew NDB]

Kennedy at every step of things: "Let's lose this and that, and that. And change that to that."

JJ at every step of things: "Sure, my pleasure! Anything else you want me to change?"

[AquaParade]

Love or hate John Campea, he makes some good points about some of the writing issues with the film. Something to think about at least.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XqqKoO5eDuw

[Shark_Blade]

https://comicbook.com/starwars/amp/2019/12/22/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-finn-wanted-tell-rey/

Early in the film, Finn makes it clear that he has a secret that he wants to reveal to Rey, but then he voids any opportunity to explain what wants to say.

But now filmmaker J.J. Abrams has opened out about what he meant at a recent screening for The Academy, explaining just what Finn wanted to say to Rey.

According to attendee @ar1aster, Finn was meaning to tell Rey that he was actually force sensitive — a trait he displays throughout the film. We got to see glimpses of Finn's strength in the Force in the previous films, but in The Rise of Skywalker he seems to have refined that ability.

*Finn about to be drowned in quicksand*
Finn: REY REY I GOTTA TELL U SOMETHING (NO NOT I LUV U LOL ACTUALLY IM FORCE SENSITIVE BUT ITLL NEVER BE EXPLORED IN THE WHOLE MOVIE)

Poe: What is it you wanna tell Rey? :shifty:
Finn: Mind your ****ing business :mad: I’ll only tell Rey when we’re both alone (but actually I never will)

Poe: we’re gonna be shot to death. Still not gonna tell me?
Finn: f***ing no

Really? That’s what he’s hiding?? He can just say that out loud no need to hide it at all. Rubbish nonsense baiting the audience over nothing :roll:

[sdp]

Finn did show a few hints during the movie that he was force sensitive. I would've loved a movie where this was explored in say Episode 8 and by 9 you had a few Jedi.

We already had a storyline of only 1 Jedi left, why not make a movie whree there were plenty of Jedi, instead of a boring general Leia could've been the trainer of Luke's daughter Rey, Finn shows up and starts training, then because of reasons they go search for Luke to finish their training. Leia was boring as a general until ROS where she was training Rey and even that was limited because of footage.

ROS was fun, the things that don't make sense is because it had to finish the trilogy and the 9 movies, had this been a second act it would've been fine, even better had it been the first act, we finally got the interaction Poe/Rey/Finn needed.

Kennedy at every step of things: "Let's lose this and that, and that. And change that to that."

JJ at every step of things: "Sure, my pleasure! Anything else you want me to change?"

Well we saw what happened to Trevorrow when he said no.

[AquaParade]

Yeah, that was super bizarre. It definitely felt more like he was implying that he loved her. To me, at least. Why would the force thing be a secret?

And did they really never follow up on it in the movie, or did I miss it? Is JJ out here explaining missing plot points?

[Shark_Blade]

It only made sense to confess one’s love in your last moment prior to death.

But to confess in your last moments that you’re force sensitive and actually hiding about it??? Tf? What is there to hide? even when he’s in death row to be shot down Finn still refuse to talk about it to Poe

[Andrew NDB]

I didn't really mention about the riding animals on the Star Destroyers. Wow, that was nonsensical. Their whole plan, just ride around on its surface tossing bombs inside hatches? The ships could just turn on their axis slightly and send all of them falling. I think it was kind of supposed to be a callback to the riding animals with Rose thing in TLJ but... was she even in the battle? I don't remember seeing her.

[Voltron]

Yeah, I hate it when movies aren't realistic. It also bothered me that Kylo fixed his helmet, instead of just buying a new one. That was a huge waste of his time! It's bonehead moves like those that ultimately cost Palpatine two wars.

[CyberCubed]

Mace Windu could have killed Palpatine if only he had two lightsabers to reflect the lightning like Rey.

[IMJ]

Mace Windu could have killed Palpatine if only he had two lightsabers to reflect the lightning like Rey.

All evil, even Galactic evil can be defeated by making an "x". Bad day at work? Just make an "x"! Enemy coming your way? Just make an "x"!

[CyberCubed]

Thinking about it more all these movies had dumb subplots that just wasted time in the film. The first movie at least had the excuse of establishing Rey and Finn as new characters so I'd let it slide. TLJ had the whole casino planet subplot with Finn/Rose that could have been cut entirely and nothing would be lost, and this movie wasted most of it's first hour looking for a dagger, a dagger of all things, in a Star Wars move over like two planets.

I also wish so many of the new characters were cut entirely. Maz, Rose, Holdo from TLJ, the two new women in this movie, etc. they all contributed so little to both the movies and the overall lore in general you might as well leave them out.

And as I said before nearly all the villains were just fodder with as little screentime as possible to sell toys. Still laughing thinking about how the Red Stormtroopers got so much hype in the marking material to get less than 30 seconds of combined screentime in the movie. Knights of Ren? Who? Worse than Phasma and Snoke combined.

[Sumac]

Yep. He was Fully Rejuvenated Emperor, who got a whole lightsaber fight scene with Rey. Things went full Dark Empire there before Kennedy pulled the rug out from that.

I love that the original idea for that last battle seemed inspired from Final Fantasy IV.
Some rumors had it that he was supposed to be Son of Mortis, whoever that is.

And, of course, I've meant Justice League, not BVS as a comparison to the mess that is TROS. My bad.

[Shark_Blade]

John Boyega himself confirmed it :tlol:

No... Finn wasn’t going to say I love you before sinking!
https://twitter.com/johnboyega/status/1209077504914444288?s=21

[IMJ]

Some rumors had it that he was supposed to be Son of Mortis, whoever that is.

Oh interesting. That's a deep, deep mythology component of Force lore that had a pretty good arc in the Clone Wars show.

I had heard that the Sith dagger was actually the dagger of Mortis, but by the time I saw the movie I didn't even care anymore.

The Rise of Skywalker
01. Find planet for McGuffin.
02. Find previously unnamed Jedi apprentice on planet for McGuffin.
03. Find McGuffin upon finding apprentice.
04. Find location of next McGuffin using old McGuffin.
05. Find next McGuffin at location.
06. Find new location using next McGuffin.
07. Find plot device at new location.
08. Use Lightsabers to make an "X".
09. Bury old lightsabers in the sand because you've killed the past.

[Sumac]

Oh interesting. That's a deep, deep mythology component of Force lore that had a pretty good arc in the Clone Wars show.

I had heard that the Sith dagger was actually the dagger of Mortis, but by the time I saw the movie I didn't even care anymore.
Other rumors insisted that Matt Smith's character was part of Knights of Ren and a young clone of Palps.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah, what exactly are we to take from Rey burying Luke and Leia's lightsabers? Is it burying the Skywalker saga? Rey walking away from... eh, their past even though she embraces it like 10 seconds later? It just seems needless and wasteful.

[IMJ]

Yeah, what exactly are we to take from Rey burying Luke and Leia's lightsabers? Is it burying the Skywalker saga? Rey walking away from... eh, their past even though she embraces it like 10 seconds later? It just seems needless and wasteful.

See line #09 in post #1231. :lol:

[CyberCubed]

Yeah, what exactly are we to take from Rey burying Luke and Leia's lightsabers? Is it burying the Skywalker saga? Rey walking away from... eh, their past even though she embraces it like 10 seconds later? It just seems needless and wasteful.

It's set-up for Episode X when it happens 10-15 years from now and Rey has to go re-cover them for the next hero or heroine.

[MikeandRaph87]

https://www.cbr.com/star-wars-rise-of-skywalker-toxic-fandom-wins/

CBR failed to mention that The Last Jedi did the exact same thing in it nullified plot points in The Force Awakens.

Too bad Luke can't walk in and out of the force. That would be the ultimate fan catering.

[Andrew NDB]

https://www.cbr.com/star-wars-rise-of-skywalker-toxic-fandom-wins/

CBR failed to mention that The Last Jedi did the exact same thing in it nullified plot points in The Force Awakens.

TLJ is immune because it is an "important" movie with an "important" message.

Sidenote: did I miss "Duel of the Fates" in the movie? We were told it would be there, somewhere, along with like every theme ever.

[Allio]

So Darth Maul, Yoda, Mace Windu, and exploding inside a destructing Death Star couldn't defeat Emperor Palpatine... but Rey does single-handedly. Just saw the scene. She just takes two lightsabers and bounces his Force lightning back him until he dissolves. Which is stupid, because if it was killing him, why wouldn't he just stop producing the lightning?

To be fair, it's pretty much what Mace was doing to Palpatine.

[Andrew NDB]

To be fair, it's pretty much what Mace was doing to Palpatine.

But that served a purpose. Palpatine wanted to be scarred by Mace to better sell the "I was unfairly attacked, and look what they did to me!" thing, as he did in the senate. What's the reasoning here?

Though I've never seen a good answer as to whether Mace was actually wounding him or if that was just a little bit of uncovering his true appearance. I guess after IX we have to say it was really hurting him.

[Allio]

Guy could handle three lightsabers, but two was too many.

[Andrew NDB]

Eh... Bond fans. What do you say? Was the Palpatine thing handled better or worse than the Blofeld thing in SPECTRE?

[ZariusTwo]

Eh... Bond fans. What do you say? Was the Palpatine thing handled better or worse than the Blofeld thing in SPECTRE?

By that you mean how they handled "I was behind everything?", yeah I think Blofeld takes this.

[CyberCubed]

https://www.cbr.com/star-wars-rise-of-skywalker-toxic-fandom-wins/

CBR failed to mention that The Last Jedi did the exact same thing in it nullified plot points in The Force Awakens.

Too bad Luke can't walk in and out of the force. That would be the ultimate fan catering.

What did it nullify? We got rid of Snoke who was garbage and Rian wanted Rey’s parents to be nobody, which makes sense if you think anyone can be powerful with the force instead of a lineage. So JJ retconned it back to her being a Palpatine but everything else stuck. Snoke is dead, Luke is dead, and the rest of the villains were dispatched like the fodder they were.

Unless you think something as lame as Kylo repairing his mask for like two scenes of the movie to not wear it again at all for the end of the movie was worth it.

[oldmanwinters]

I didn't really mention about the riding animals on the Star Destroyers. Wow, that was nonsensical. Their whole plan, just ride around on its surface tossing bombs inside hatches? The ships could just turn on their axis slightly and send all of them falling. I think it was kind of supposed to be a callback to the riding animals with Rose thing in TLJ but... was she even in the battle? I don't remember seeing her.

Is it established is SW canon how characters can breathe and have functional gravity walking on a Star Destroyer in the vacuum of space?

[IMJ]

Is it established is SW canon how characters can breathe and have functional gravity walking on a Star Destroyer in the vacuum of space?

I thhiiinnkkk that they were still in exogol's atmosphere in that scene. There was cloud cover?

[oldmanwinters]

I thhiiinnkkk that they were still in exogol's atmosphere in that scene. There was cloud cover?

Makes sense to me!

[Andrew NDB]

That was definitely just "high up" in the atmosphere, not outer space. They emerged from the ice and just sort of hung out.

By that you mean how they handled "I was behind everything?", yeah I think Blofeld takes this.

In the sense of, there was two or three movies beforehand unrelated, but now here comes a supervillain that takes credit for the last few movies' stuff and becomes the central villain.

[Allio]

I think it's going to be interesting in the next coming years exactly how perception of these films will feel. Once we get away from all this BTS controversies and see the films how they are and how they stand on their own.

I mean The Last Jedi itself is like Kamen Rider Zi-O. It had a good concept (the Luke/Ben drama) but it was everything else (Space chase/Casino) ruined the film.

[Andrew NDB]

Nobody will care about the sequel trilogy. Even three months from now. It has nothing to say that the OT didn't already say, or say better.

[CyberCubed]

Adam Driver is the best.