New Ciro Nieli podcast... the future of Nick TMNT & more!

[Avatar Yuffie]

Originally Posted by Jester

I'm just gonna leave this here...take it as you see fit:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/f...bout-film.html

Also check this.

http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Bechdel_test

Passing or failing the test is not an ironclad guarantee of well-rounded, feminist, characterisation but it is indicative of the problems of token women characters. A vast amount of geeky media fails the test.

A clever author can have their female characters pass the test, but subjected to misogynistic themes.

Also check TV Tropes
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...TheBechdelTest

[Matches Malone]

Originally Posted by Jester

I keep reading that "Female characters need a reason to exist in a universe...but male characters don't..." but doesn't it depend on the media in question? Aren't most male characters in media directed at women purely there to move the story along and out of said plot convenience, and if they didn't play that role they wouldn't exist?

I'll go back to the friendship analogy. Most people are drawn to friends who have similar interests/backgrounds. Does it make you a misogynist/misandrist/racist/homophobic if your circle of friends is rather homogeneous?

Kind of a hopeless plea, but folks need to stop being defensive and get off the binary "sexist/not sexist" label. There are people on both sides that simply can't let things be a little more complex than that.

As for male characters in women-oriented media (I don't know about most, I don't consume it), sure there are plenty of 2 dimensional love interest male characters. Aren't they boring? But maybe it does provide an alternative to how everything else is so skewed the other way. Does the fact that this problem exists for both genders make it okay? Nah. Of course there are problematic portrayals of men in media. Does the fact that this problem exists for both genders cancel out the fact that one gender in particular is way more subject to it? Nah. This is the part that I think most people have a hard time getting. Sexism/racism/etc isn't just one individual's attitude toward their gender or race. It's the overall culture. If someone writes me off as something just because I'm a man, okay, that's no good obviously. But do I face that everywhere everyday? Do I expect someone to make catcalls to me just for walking down the street? Or see that no one in 300 years has found a person of my gender worthy of being elected as president? And so freakin' on. We all face prejudice. You can find any counter-example of a white person, a rich person, a man, or any other dominant social group in our country suffering from prejudice because there are 300+ million people, but it is not even close to the same scale. That's why they are the dominant group. Men do not live in the same world as women. Period. If you are sincere, you would not act like equality means that we are all suffering the same problems on the same scale.

The friendship analogy doesn't quite work in my opinion, though I think it is important to think on. Yes, we are drawn to those with similar interests, but consciously or actively narrowing your view and scope of friends isn't good. I'm not going to go on about labels of sexist or racist, but I will say that if you do not know anyone of color, you are more likely to be ignorant and vulnerable to racist ideas. Doesn't that only make sense? You're not a bad person for it, but it is good to have diversity in your life too because ignorance isn't helping you just because it's comfortable. Remember that ignorance isn't the same as stupidity. I'm not judging anyone for it, I just think an acknowledgment is important so we know which direction we want to go. Regarding race and other minorities, I know folks who lived in places like Wyoming or Idaho or even parts of California where you simply never encountered any minorities. They sure learned a lot when they finally did. So I'm not here to call anyone anything, but I am willing to say: go and meet people different from yourself if you can. Lots of them. They don't have to be your best friends, but you can learn a lot from them. Until then, know that you are at a disadvantage in resources and first hand experience.

[Electric]

Originally Posted by Jester

I'm just gonna leave this here...take it as you see fit:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/f...bout-film.html

Perfect. April, karai. Have their own little feud going on. "Why are you special?" "You lost your mother too?" That doesn't sound like talking about a man.

[SpiderFly]

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by Matches Malone

Kind of a hopeless plea, but folks need to stop being defensive and get off the binary "sexist/not sexist" label. There are people on both sides that simply can't let things be a little more complex than that.

As for male characters in women-oriented media (I don't know about most, I don't consume it), sure there are plenty of 2 dimensional love interest male characters. Aren't they boring? But maybe it does provide an alternative to how everything else is so skewed the other way. Does the fact that this problem exists for both genders make it okay? Nah. Of course there are problematic portrayals of men in media. Does the fact that this problem exists for both genders cancel out the fact that one gender in particular is way more subject to it? Nah. This is the part that I think most people have a hard time getting. Sexism/racism/etc isn't just one individual's attitude toward their gender or race. It's the overall culture. If someone writes me off as something just because I'm a man, okay, that's no good obviously. But do I face that everywhere everyday? Do I expect someone to make catcalls to me just for walking down the street? Or see that no one in 300 years has found a person of my gender worthy of being elected as president? And so freakin' on. We all face prejudice. You can find any counter-example of a white person, a rich person, a man, or any other dominant social group in our country suffering from prejudice because there are 300+ million people, but it is not even close to the same scale. That's why they are the dominant group. Men do not live in the same world as women. Period. If you are sincere, you would not act like equality means that we are all suffering the same problems on the same scale.

The friendship analogy doesn't quite work in my opinion, though I think it is important to think on. Yes, we are drawn to those with similar interests, but consciously or actively narrowing your view and scope of friends isn't good. I'm not going to go on about labels of sexist or racist, but I will say that if you do not know anyone of color, you are more likely to be ignorant and vulnerable to racist ideas. Doesn't that only make sense? You're not a bad person for it, but it is good to have diversity in your life too because ignorance isn't helping you just because it's comfortable. Remember that ignorance isn't the same as stupidity. I'm not judging anyone for it, I just think an acknowledgment is important so we know which direction we want to go. Regarding race and other minorities, I know folks who lived in places like Wyoming or Idaho or even parts of California where you simply never encountered any minorities. They sure learned a lot when they finally did. So I'm not here to call anyone anything, but I am willing to say: go and meet people different from yourself if you can. Lots of them. They don't have to be your best friends, but you can learn a lot from them. Until then, know that you are at a disadvantage in resources and first hand experience.

This so much.

[Avatar Yuffie]

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by Matches Malone

Kind of a hopeless plea, but folks need to stop being defensive and get off the binary "sexist/not sexist" label. There are people on both sides that simply can't let things be a little more complex than that.

As for male characters in women-oriented media (I don't know about most, I don't consume it), sure there are plenty of 2 dimensional love interest male characters. Aren't they boring? But maybe it does provide an alternative to how everything else is so skewed the other way. Does the fact that this problem exists for both genders make it okay? Nah. Of course there are problematic portrayals of men in media. Does the fact that this problem exists for both genders cancel out the fact that one gender in particular is way more subject to it? Nah. This is the part that I think most people have a hard time getting. Sexism/racism/etc isn't just one individual's attitude toward their gender or race. It's the overall culture. If someone writes me off as something just because I'm a man, okay, that's no good obviously. But do I face that everywhere everyday? Do I expect someone to make catcalls to me just for walking down the street? Or see that no one in 300 years has found a person of my gender worthy of being elected as president? And so freakin' on. We all face prejudice. You can find any counter-example of a white person, a rich person, a man, or any other dominant social group in our country suffering from prejudice because there are 300+ million people, but it is not even close to the same scale. That's why they are the dominant group. Men do not live in the same world as women. Period. If you are sincere, you would not act like equality means that we are all suffering the same problems on the same scale.

The friendship analogy doesn't quite work in my opinion, though I think it is important to think on. Yes, we are drawn to those with similar interests, but consciously or actively narrowing your view and scope of friends isn't good. I'm not going to go on about labels of sexist or racist, but I will say that if you do not know anyone of color, you are more likely to be ignorant and vulnerable to racist ideas. Doesn't that only make sense? You're not a bad person for it, but it is good to have diversity in your life too because ignorance isn't helping you just because it's comfortable. Remember that ignorance isn't the same as stupidity. I'm not judging anyone for it, I just think an acknowledgment is important so we know which direction we want to go. Regarding race and other minorities, I know folks who lived in places like Wyoming or Idaho or even parts of California where you simply never encountered any minorities. They sure learned a lot when they finally did. So I'm not here to call anyone anything, but I am willing to say: go and meet people different from yourself if you can. Lots of them. They don't have to be your best friends, but you can learn a lot from them. Until then, know that you are at a disadvantage in resources and first hand experience.

Agreed. Thank you.

[plastroncafe]

I posit that Bechdel is as damaging to Film as the BMI is damaging to Overall Health.

It's a measure of ration and little else.

I don't think it should be an end all/be all measure of worth or the merit of a movie/piece of fiction, but rather it serves to illustrate a pernicious trend in our popular culture.

There are tons of good things out there that don't get a pass, just as there are tons of less than great things that do.

Originally Posted by ElectricN

Perfect. April, karai. Have their own little feud going on. "Why are you special?" "You lost your mother too?" That doesn't sound like talking about a man.

No it doesn't, and I reference that very scene in the Podcast right before I ask if there'll be another like it in Season 2.

[The Big Bad]

I'm like a day behind on this thread--so many comments.

Originally Posted by Machias Banshee

Andrew, a question for you: Ciro said that he's basing a chunk of the show on the mirage comics. How many female characters ARE there in that universe?

This whole female character controversy is getting a bit overblown, I think. We're only in the beginning of season two of this show. We have NO idea what Ciro's got up his sleeve. His ideas may change over time - he may simply be misleading us. We can't predict what he's going to come up with in the future. And he CAN'T tell us EVERYthing... he's created Great female characters so far.. Does that mean nothing?

Ya know, everyone treated Ciro like this when he first started sharing details about the new show a couple years back: Ciro's terrible, he doesn't care about the viewers, he's destroyed April, he's childhood-raping the fandom... and now many of the same people who cried foul are loving the show.

The fans are doing the same thing All Over Again. A knee-jerk reaction to something they haven't even Seen yet.

Personally, I will not label him or anybody as sexist or 'he-man-woman-hater' or whatever. He's got a plan, he can't tell us everything... And really, I don't want a female character just so that the vagina-to-penis ratio is closer to equal. I want a female character that is well-written with a good backstory AS LONG as it fits into the storyline.

Not as many there are male characters, to be sure, but still considerably more than have been shown here. Even if we count only the ones appearing in Volume one—which by the end told roughly the same amount of stories the Nick series will tell by the end of seaon 2--I can name Tang Shen, April, Lonae, Renet, Ananda, Jhanna, Moriah, Tai, Radical, Lucindra, Savanti Juliet, April's friend from that Egyptian story, the girl from the Mark Martin stories, the fish woman from “Sons of the Silent Age”, Hamato Yoshi's niece, Robyn, Karai, Karai's Daughter, Gabrielle, Shadow, and Casey's mother. Even taking away characters from the stories that are definitively apocryphal, you still have considerably more characters.

No, Ciro can't tell us everything...and yet, the question could have been answered with a simple “yes” or “no”. Heck, we're fairly certain Irma will appear in some capacity soon, and he still didn't answer “yes”, which strongly suggests that her appearance will be no more substantive that Rahzar and Tokka's was in Turtles Forever.

And here's why his creative philosophy is sexist: he sees men as the default. When he and the team were creating Bradford, Xever, Murakami, Snakeweed, and all the other show-original characters, it never occurred to him that he could make any of them female, or thought of it and decided not to (almost) every single time. He needs a reason to make a character female, but no reason to make a character male. And even when he has tons of reasons to do so—he still won’t do it.

Originally Posted by Konchadunga

Now that we're talking about April, I'd like to address Ciro's point about how when there's a female character in a show, she runs the risk of being too powerful. I agree that's happened sometimes as of late. In earlier shows, like the Fred Wolf series, females were usually barred from action roles, and this has created a situation of resentment where we've gone the opposite direction. For example, The Powerpuff Girls and Kim Possible, where it seems the importance of feminism alone is enough to make girls invincible, which actually makes them less relatable to actual women. Naturally, those are comedies, but there's also Transformers Animated, which gave Sari Sumdac way too much power without providing any explanation, and to an extent, even the 4Kids show, which gave April just a bit too many talents. It's really not often you get somebody who can function as a brainy computer nerd, a ninja, and a jungle warrior, all in one. I mean; Batman can, but he's the star of his series. So there really is a risk of female characters becoming Mary Sues.

While the phenomenon you mention is to a degree a true one, it is not a cause, but a direct result from the fact that shows tend to have very few female characters. It’s much easier to find a balance when women get to be individuals rather than ambassadors for their whole gender, and that can only happen when there are lots of them—note how it was much less of a problem in Avatar: The Last Airbender despite the fact that Katara, Toph, and Azula were masters of their respective bending disciplines, and better than Aang was at them.

Originally Posted by Powder

Tumblr fans = some of the worst fans

As someone who posts both here and then, the insult has been noted; you are the salt of the Earth. You are aware that several people here have Tumblr accounts, right? And that this includes at least one artist directly affiliated with the TMNT—one considered a fan-favorite?

Originally Posted by demonsweat

I agree. And I'd love to see more IPs with great female characters. But, consider this: is it fair to demonize or find fault with the creator(s) of a property for not representing a certain type of character, maybe one that they're not comfortable representing? It sounded to me like Ciro's tried to include females before and it hasn't always worked out the way he wanted it to (they end up overpowered, etc.) To me, that's him saying that this isn't one of his strengths, and so he's shying slightly away from doing it. I can't fault the guy for that. He's telling the story he wants to tell.

You write what you know. Some dudes write great women (Joss Whedon doesn't seem to struggle), some don't. I say, if you want something to change, go out and change it - create something of your own. It's good to open up discussion and inspire others, but I wouldn't necessarily come down on someone else for doing what they want to do. Isn't that what every artist strives for?

We are talking about half the [expletive] planet. If he can't be arsed to try and represent half the [expletive] planet because of their gender identity—and note that this is the only fundamental difference between men and women, with everything else being socially ingrained--then he's a damn poor writer.

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

He said Teen Titans floundered because its female characters get too powerful. My response to that should have been to add more female characters to the regular roster, not limit their numbers. If there's only one or two girl characters then those characters have to be EVERYTHING, but if you have a lot of female characters then they don't have to be everything to everyone.

[…]

Look, TMNT may be targeted for boys, but that doesn't mean that girls don't watch it. Andrew even mentioned that he watches the show with his little girl. And what will she see? A good white girl and a bad girl of color. Madonna or whore. Those are her options, and that's...troubling, to put it mildly.

Representation matters.

I'm gonna take these paragraphs--and those by Matches Malone-- and frame them on my wall, just you watch me.

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Girls have no problem what so ever finding themselves in male characters. For generations we've had no choice in the matter. We should be happy for what we get. But...you ask one guy to identify with a female character, and the cries of sexism are deafening.

If you have no preference to male/female characters, then why should the gender of new characters matter at all? What would be the big deal if every mutant in season II was female?
Why is that not a possibility?

I have nothing to add here. This is just worth repeating.

Originally Posted by ElectricN

i could really care less if every mutant from now on was female, or suddenly all these human females became important. but, it would have to work. and if ciro finds that it works better with most being males, then again, i could really care less.

Question: what exactly wouldn't have worked if all of the original characters created for the show had been female instead of male? What would the difference have been?

what im saying is that some shows are going to have more males, some more females. there is no need for every show to be equally split, cause it can take away from the show. so, if one show is better for having a fewer females, or a fewer males, then there should not be a rampant cry for it to be equal.

Except that's not true. Name another currently aiming cartoon aimed at women that's not My Little Pony.

as boys can find enjoyment out of shows with mostly females.

If that were true, the idea that the show should have more female characters would generally be received with a lot more apathy than it actually is, and there'd be far less articles about guys treating the idea of watching "chick flicks" like it were heading into a war zone.

Originally Posted by Jester

Don't take this the wrong way, but is there gender parity in your personal relationships? For every female friend do you have a male friend to balance it out? I know it's a flawed example, but it seem "gender specific media" could be seen in a similar light.

Parity? No. Some groups I'm part of have more men than women, and other—for example, three of my four university classes—and personally, I'd be perfectly fine if that were the case with popular fiction. It's not. The great majority of works have more male characters than female characters. There's a limited list of works with actual gender parity, and the amount of works where women outnumber the men is even smaller.

[demonsweat]

Originally Posted by Jester

I'm just gonna leave this here...take it as you see fit:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/f...bout-film.html

Good read. The reddit link at the bottom was interesting too. Thanks d00d.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by The Big Bad

As someone who posts both here and then, the insult has been noted; you are the salt of the Earth. You are aware that several people here have Tumblr accounts, right? And that this includes at least one artist directly affiliated with the TMNT—one considered a fan-favorite?

You are aware that I have a link to my very own Tumblr in my sig, right? Just because I enjoy a site, doesn't mean I appreciate everyone there. Surely people say the same of this forum.
Get over it.

[Electric]

1. i didnt say it wouldnt have worked? i said ciro saw it fit to make them male? again it shouldnt matter. female/ male theyre characters that the creator felt necessary to include

2. winx club? found that in a second

3. you know? chick flicks guys dont like. but what we dont do is go on a rampage complaining about the lack of true male representation they provide and demand that it be fixed. no, what most guys do is either not watch it, or like it as it is

[Avatar Yuffie]

Originally Posted by ElectricN

3. you know? chick flicks guys dont like. but what we dont do is go on a rampage complaining about the lack of true male representation they provide and demand that it be fixed. no, what most guys do is either not watch it, or like it as it is

It's because you had many male targeted cartoons filled with male main characters to choose from. Of course you won't rampage against two? three? girl cartoons that didn't represent your gender properly.

Seriously, don't act so benevolent. It's annoying.

[Vivi]

I can't help but think he still sneakily reads these boards from time to time.

[plastroncafe]

Chick Flicks. Nothing like the use of a belittling name for a film that skews towards the feminine to reinforce the notion that masculine is the default.

Everything else is: Other.

I actually do know people who complain about the male representation in movies, cartoons, and television shows. They're usually feminists.

[NinjaMan]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Chick Flicks. Nothing like the use of a belittling name for a film that skews towards the feminine to reinforce the notion that masculine is the default.

Everything else is: Other.

I actually do know people who complain about the male representation in movies, cartoons, and television shows. They're usually feminists.

Wow, you really think that term is bad? Tons of women use that term. I guess "Guys movie" is belittling as well? You really need to get off your soap box.

[Electric]

Originally Posted by Avatar Yuffie

It's because you had many male targeted cartoons filled with male main characters to choose from. Of course you won't rampage against two? three? girl cartoons that didn't represent your gender properly.

Seriously, don't act so benevolent. It's annoying.

you seem to think i only like male based shows/movies, false. some female based ones are actually some of my favorites. i also dont believe tmnt is solely for males.
'
again, if a girl cannot enjoy a show thats focused around males, why watch it? its not that the show is flawed due to lack of female representation, its that girls see it as sexist, when its not. shows are not evenly distributed, thats fact. you should still be able to like/relate to characters of another gender. females/males dont need equal representation to appeal to both genders.

and i just want to make a point, every post-er on here thats spoke of a little girl that watches the show, says the girls have no problem liking the male characters. this show is for kids. not the adults that believe they arent being represented. living behind the idea that equality of gender is required in shows for you is fine. unfortunately for you, this show isn aimed at you. its for the kids. so if theyre happy, then the show is fine

[Avatar Yuffie]

Originally Posted by ElectricN

you seem to think i only like male based shows/movies, false. some female based ones are actually some of my favorites. i also dont believe tmnt is solely for males.
'
again, if a girl cannot enjoy a show thats focused around males, why watch it? its not that the show is flawed due to lack of female representation, its that girls see it as sexist, when its not. shows are not evenly distributed, thats fact. you should still be able to like/relate to characters of another gender. females/males dont need equal representation to appeal to both genders.

and i just want to make a point, every post-er on here thats spoke of a little girl that watches the show, says the girls have no problem liking the male characters. this show is for kids. not the adults that believe they arent being represented. living behind the idea that equality of gender is required in shows for you is fine. unfortunately for you, this show isn aimed at you. its for the
kids. so if theyre happy, then the show is fine

Haha, I actually started to drift away from the show recently. So, I'm not that concerned how the cartoon will pander to me, alright? So don't concern yourself with how I feel.

The point is, if the current fans must ask "why the hell not" regarding "we can't have female characters in TMNT because reasons", let them.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by NinjaMan

Wow, you really think that term is bad? Tons of women use that term. I guess "Guys movie" is belittling as well? You really need to get off your soap box.

Why stop now? I'm on a roll!

Actually, I don't sit up at night worrying about the use of "chick flick" because in my mind it refers to a specific genre of movie. The kind one sees on say "Lifetime." It really only bothers me when its definition is extended to encompass any movie with a large female cast or series of protagonists.

It's not a flattering term: chick flick.
Because they're seen as being of lesser quality than movies aimed at the gold standard target demographic: white males between the ages of 18 and 35.

It's why people are so surprised when movies like Titanic and Pretty Women do so well at the box office.

[Electric]

Originally Posted by Avatar Yuffie

Haha, I actually started to drift away from the show recently. So, I'm not that concerned how the cartoon will pander to me, alright? So don't concern yourself with how I feel.

The point is, if the current fans must ask "why the hell not" regarding "we can't have female characters in TMNT because reasons", let them.

and theyre allowed. they should not, however, threaten the writer, call the show sexist, try to get ciro fired, ruin chances of ciro ever doing things like this, or jump to conclusions. theyre allowed to ask, but if ciro mispoke and really wasnt able to put into words what he meant without spoilers, this should not have gotten this out of hand.

im not trying to be benevolent, and my sincerest apologies if i bother you, but all this harsh criticism and attacking bothers me. so try not to act like this is an enormous problem thats ruining the show

[The Big Bad]

Originally Posted by ElectricN

the way i see people taking this is that ciro put karai and april in to appease the need for females. which is wrong. he included them because they are necessary. they contribute. would aprils aunt really contribute to the turtles? maybe. is it necessary to them? no.

I'm going to yell here for a bit.

YES. SHE. IS.

Who April's aunt is should have defined April's arc in season 1, just like who Splinter and Shredder defines who the turtles and Karai are. Instead, we have a case where the series that is ostensibly about substitute parents doesn't deal with the only one of those relationships that features women in both roles and is a necessary part of their main female characters' story arc. Heck, we're more than one season in, and we don't have anything but the most general sense of what Kirby and April's relationship is like.

Originally Posted by Jester

I keep reading that "Female characters need a reason to exist in a universe...but male characters don't..." but doesn't it depend on the media in question? Aren't most male characters in media directed at women purely there to move the story along and out of said plot convenience, and if they didn't play that role they wouldn't exist?

I don't think this is an especially helpful framing, because one could argue that that's true for all characters. That said, I don't think the situations are analogous. Shows like Gilmore Girls or Switched at Birth do have a fair amount of male characters in their casts, who play specific roles within episodes and the ongoing, more general role of being part of the universe.

More to the point, you're missing the point of the "reasons" argument. It's not that creators act as if female characters need a reason to appear and male characters don't--every character needs a reason to appear. The argument is that creators think characters--who has a reason to appear-- needs a reason to be female but don't need a reason to be male. There's a difference.

I'll go back to the friendship analogy. Most people are drawn to friends who have similar interests/backgrounds. Does it make you a misogynist/misandrist/racist/homophobic if your circle of friends is rather homogeneous?

This, I would say, is context-sensitive, and the answer depends a lot on how we're conditioned to look at certain activities. If one circle of friends is homogeneous? Then I'd say "not necessarily". However, people very rarely have just one circle of friends, and if all of them are equally homogeneous, the I would say the chances are rather likely that yes, there is an -ism or a -phobia at work.

Also, it's important to note that one can have female friends and still be sexist, have gay friends and still be homophobic, etc. There's a reason "some of my best friends are [X]" is considered a ridiculous defense.

You are aware that I have a link to my very own Tumblr in my sig, right? Just because I enjoy a site, doesn't mean I appreciate everyone there. Surely people say the same of this forum.
Get over it.

Ah, so you do know. Since I'm on the topic, I'd like to know...just, pray tell, would your reasons for thinking badly of them be? If you're going to insult me, I'd like to know why.

[Electric]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Why stop now? I'm on a roll!

Actually, I don't sit up at night worrying about the use of "chick flick" because in my mind it refers to a specific genre of movie. The kind one sees on say "Lifetime." It really only bothers me when its definition is extended to encompass any movie with a large female cast or series of protagonists.

It's not a flattering term: chick flick.
Because they're seen as being of lesser quality than movies aimed at the gold standard target demographic: white males between the ages of 18 and 35.

It's why people are so surprised when movies like Titanic and Pretty Women do so well at the box office.

you are wrong. its not. its used for romantic comedies that are assumed to revolve around love. example, in recent media, hunger games: entire story based around a girl, yet guys like it. its not a chickflick.

youre right chick flick is basically a genre. but no, its not ones that revolve around girls. it romantic movies.