Official Episode Discussion S2 #12 "Of Rats and Men"

[JTH]

Originally Posted by MaximeLoonatic

Acne it's not a sickness, you know..

Acne also doesn't make you explode either.

They just called it Shellacne, he had a highly dangerous, mutagen contracted disease.

[TurFlytle]

Originally Posted by The Big Bad

...and have no access to oxygen, which cats need, and most mutants have needed. Now, we don't know if Ice Cream Kitty would need it, but Mikey made absolutely no attempt to find out, or really, any attempt to find out what an Ice Cream Kittens might need. Not to mention that many cats don't do terribly well in small, enclosed spaces, or that there's no telling what things the fridge contained that might have been harmful to the cat.

Well, it's half ice cream, half cat. I'll think it'll survive. Just add some holes to it and it'll be good. Also, it's a cartoon about 4 humanoid turtles living with a talking rat facing against robo ninjas and brains in suits. How much weirder can it get?

[TurFlytle]

Originally Posted by beavercartoon

All the cat knew was that it was hungry, and there was food nearby. It had no way of knowing that food was tainted.

Well, it was a good thing that ice cream went in the mutagen because if it wasn't for Mikey, she would turn into Mutagen Man (cat version)

[Klunk1234]

The episode was good and I liked the action scenes, but I was expecting the kitty April found turned to be Klunk, instead of the Ice Cream Kitty. I wish Donnie finds a cure for him/ her. Mikey is getting so annoying, he is not so funny anymore and he is acting stupidly. I hope he matures a little bit. Mikey is more than the prankster of the bunch. He is loving and caring about others, especially kids and animals.

[Metalwolf]

Originally Posted by TurFlytle

Well, it was a good thing that ice cream went in the mutagen because if it wasn't for Mikey, she would turn into Mutagen Man (cat version)

Actually, if it wasn't for Mikey spilling ice cream, she might not have gone near it.

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by Klunk1234

The episode was good and I liked the action scenes, but I was expecting the kitty April found turned to be Klunk, instead of the Ice Cream Kitty. I wish Donnie finds a cure for him/ her. Mikey is getting so annoying, he is not so funny anymore and he is acting stupidly. I hope he matures a little bit. Mikey is more than the prankster of the bunch. He is loving and caring about others, especially kids and animals.

Mikey didn't even do anything stupid in this episode.....

all he did was accidentally drop ice cream into the mutagen......it was an accident.

he looked away for a second to ask if they could keep the kitty and when he looked back the cat licked the mutagen....which was unfortunate, but he felt bad and he tried to help the kitty.

I think Mikey was great in this episode

Mikey did save Leo from Splinter by throwing ICKitty at Ratking and he saved Donnie from being shredded by that fan.

[RaphAndDonnie]

Originally Posted by Klunk1234

The episode was good and I liked the action scenes, but I was expecting the kitty April found turned to be Klunk, instead of the Ice Cream Kitty.

I was kind of hoping for that too, even though I knew the cat was going to become ICK. Heck, even if April or Mikey or someone just threw out the name Klunk I would have liked it.

[Shark_Blade]

Originally Posted by Klunk1234

I was expecting the kitty April found turned to be Klunk, instead of the Ice Cream Kitty.

Originally Posted by RaphAndDonnie

I was kind of hoping for that too, even though I knew the cat was going to become ICK. Heck, even if April or Mikey or someone just threw out the name Klunk I would have liked it.

It's just a name... honestly,

[blindturtle02]

If Don manages to get that retromutagen perfected and demutate ICK, it very well may be Klunk. Wasn't Klunk also female? I'm betting Mikey'd change the name again after kitty was back to normal.

Loved those giant rats! Really wanting the toys now, please Playmates.

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by blindturtle02

If Don manages to get that retromutagen perfected and demutate ICK, it very well may be Klunk. Wasn't Klunk also female? I'm betting Mikey'd change the name again after kitty was back to normal.

Loved those giant rats! Really wanting the toys now, please Playmates.

well if ICKitty changes back...I hope he becomes a cuter cat...(than what it looked like before it mutated)

[plastroncafe]

Things I liked about this episode:

- It was twisted.
- It was DARK AS HELL.
- It passed the Bechdel test
- That Irma's voice actor is one half of Garfunkle and Oates.

Splinter remains awesome. Rat King remains awesomely creepy.
ICK joins my Action Figure WANT list with, Metal Head, Casey, and Irma.

Well played, show.

[kolaida]

Originally Posted by beavercartoon

Thanks, kolaida. Everybody's got their own 'berserk button' that sets them off. I did feel sorry for some of the other mutants including the squirrels, Pigeon Pete, the professor from Monkey Brains, Timothy, and Kirby.

Ice Cream Kitty is not portrayed as an intelligent anthropomorphic creature the way Splinter, Slash, and the turtles all are. Ice Cream Kitty is a more tragic mutant, one that still retains most of their animal instincts but now may not be able survive in the environments it was used to.

It hits harder for me because I own cats, I love and care for them. I have also unfortunately encountered people who are deliberately cruel to animals.

I'll still kick around on the forums from time to time, but I can't tune in to the new episodes. I tried to be more rational and 'get over it' but looking at Ice Cream Kitty makes me feel physically sick.

(As a recovering anorexic, combining favorite domestic animal with a food I haven't eaten in over 10 years due to the caloric content of such treats, it's a double whammy of anxiety. I don't even really like seeing the turtles eat pizza but I've conditioned myself to accept that because it's ALWAYS been something they do. I don't think I can train myself to view Ice Cream Kitty as a regular TMNT feature. Thinking of her is too disheartening.)

Yeah, everyone does have their own berserk buttons, I understand. I have also ran into people that think animals are disposable. Also have a sister that volunteered at a vet's office for a few years and heard quite a few horror stories. It is sad.

This brings up a good point, why are some of them like the turtles, Splinters, Slash, TigerClaw, Bradford evolved in a way they retain certain things or evolve (like Slash and the turtles) to humanoid. I remember reading (fanfic, I think) somewhere a nice twist that the mutagen had originally been used to try to get animals to explain to humans how they were hurting them except it kept failing-- the turtles and Splinter were special cases and that's why they were targets, to see why it worked. Obviously, I don't think the Kraang care much, since they are trying to destroy everyone in the world, but just a thought. Others wind up like Mutagen Man, ICK, and KirbyBat. I mean, who could blame Timothy for thinking he'd turn into some cool mutant? Looks like the odds are 50/50.

I don't care much for the turtles eating pizza, either- though, I do like that Nick makes it clear they spend a LOT of time exercising. I do know that's what they've always done (and it's their "thing"), I do wish at least one would want to skip the meat (Leo and Mikey would be the most likely candidates and Leo has already had so much development, it would be nice to see Mikey do something and Leo follow. I don't see Raph or Don as vegetarian/vegan types). Though, there are plenty of vegetarian/vegan types of pizza so it's not like it would be that complicated.

I'm sad you won't be watching anymore, but you do gotta think of yourself and do what's best for you.

[FoxBoxKid]

Originally Posted by beavercartoon

Thanks, kolaida. Everybody's got their own 'berserk button' that sets them off. I did feel sorry for some of the other mutants including the squirrels, Pigeon Pete, the professor from Monkey Brains, Timothy, and Kirby.

But most of those mutants maintained some sentience. Most of them are able to function. With his robotic legs and breathing device, Xever/Fishface can still fight. Bradford/Dogpound was openly upset about his first mutation, and had a more positive reaction to becoming Rahzar.

Slash and Rahzar are but too examples of mutants who now prefer their new appearance and abilities, and they can vocalize their feelings.

Ice Cream Kitty is not portrayed as an intelligent anthropomorphic creature the way Splinter, Slash, and the turtles all are. Ice Cream Kitty is a more tragic mutant, one that still retains most of their animal instincts but now may not be able survive in the environments it was used to.

It hits harder for me because I own cats, I love and care for them. I have also unfortunately encountered people who are deliberately cruel to animals.

Shoving a normal cat into a freezer WILL kill them. It's something that should have been mentioned in-show, so no child tries that at home, and so that's clear that all the characters- including Mikey- realize what poor decisions resulted in Ice Cream Kitty. Instead, their mistakes are practically justified by the script, since Ice Cream Kitty was able to be a secret weapon to help defeat the Rat King.

But Ice Cream Kitty is not Metalhead. She shouldn't be treated as a weapon or a cool toy, but as a living creature who must now be responsibly cared for. She's not the typical mutant, being partially based on ice cream makes her more vulnerable.

We don't know what would happen if she melted, would she die? What if only parts of her dribbled out and get left behind? Does she regenerate everything? Does she feel pain when she melts? Is her intelligence or motor skills diminished in any way when a part of her melts?

Metalhead can, has, and will be rebuilt if/when he is damaged in a fight. Ice Cream Kitty can not be healed so easily. Until and unless she is restored to her normal self, her quality of life has been lessened the same way Kirby, Timothy, and others were harmed by their mutants. But they at least were able to make more conscious choices that led to their mutations.

Timothy KNEW what he was doing was dangerous. Bradford kept attacking Mikey even though his balance was precarious. Kirby chose to protect April from the mutagen, even though it meant being splashed himself. Even the human who became Spider-Bytez made a choice to reach for his phone instead of heading to safety. All the cat knew was that it was hungry, and there was food nearby. It had no way of knowing that food was tainted.

To everyone who implies that I just blame Mikey, oh no. My post made specific mention of the bad call April made (bringing a stray cat to the lair) Donatello's part (the mutagen) and Mikey's part (the ice cream, not being fully attentive to the cat's needs.)

I'm pretty disgusted with the actions of all 3 of them. The disappointment in Mikey goes a little further because he had previously been portrayed as the animal-lover and was the caretaker of Klunk (a cute non mutant cat) in other incarnations.

Yes, I remember the comic where Klunk dies after getting hit by a car. That's tragic, and Mikey actually does attempt to save the poor dying animal's life, almost resorting to black magic to bring Klunk back. Mikey accepts Klunk's death in the comic and so did I, because it was presented in a somber manner not played up as a comedic element.

So yes, I'm still a fan of TMNT overall. BUT there were some things in Nick TMNT that didn't sit well with me (just as I'm sure most fans are not 100% satisfied with every story in every version of TMNT), and this event was my personal breaking point. I'm not saying that other people can't watch it and continue to enjoy it, just that I won't. Nobody has to agree with me on any of this, it's only my opinion.

I'll still kick around on the forums from time to time, but I can't tune in to the new episodes. I tried to be more rational and 'get over it' but looking at Ice Cream Kitty makes me feel physically sick.

(As a recovering anorexic, combining favorite domestic animal with a food I haven't eaten in over 10 years due to the caloric content of such treats, it's a double whammy of anxiety. I don't even really like seeing the turtles eat pizza but I've conditioned myself to accept that because it's ALWAYS been something they do. I don't think I can train myself to view Ice Cream Kitty as a regular TMNT feature. Thinking of her is too disheartening.)

It's just a tv show...

[plastroncafe]

I'm always interested in where the line of empathy for people gets drawn.
The guy who was half-mutated and left to die in a dark room isn't mentioned, but the ice cream cat is.

Timothy is dissolved, mentally and physically, but is easily blamed for his own demise.

I'm not judging where people have their own lines, I just find it interesting that it shifts so dramatically, not just from person to person, but from instance to instance.

[Gabriel GP]

*Giggles* Seriously, those who think that any episode of this series is dark have serious troubles just saying.

[Metalwolf]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

I'm always interested in where the line of empathy for people gets drawn.
The guy who was half-mutated and left to die in a dark room isn't mentioned, but the ice cream cat is.

Timothy is dissolved, mentally and physically, but is easily blamed for his own demise.

I'm not judging where people have their own lines, I just find it interesting that it shifts so dramatically, not just from person to person, but from instance to instance.

I think it's because the cat was put into a situation that could have been easily prevented, and this mutation is likely going to be limiting it's quality of life. No cat does well if it's constantly confined to a cage, and animals go actually go mad if they don't have sufficient mental stimulation. Would ICK even get that if she's limited to life in a freezer?

I will say though that the half mutated man didn't get any choice either, and is just as much a victim as ICK is. I would also agree with you on Timmy too, but mainly because he came off to me as being possibly one of those kids/teens that might have had a sort of intellectual delay. Reading up on this, I've learned that impulsiveness and impatience can be a big problem with this condition, and that might have been a factor with Timothy. In his mind, he was likely only thinking about how cool he was going to be, a step up from being the 'dumb kid' who got picked on.

I do think that Donnie should have told Splinter the whole truth about Timothy, that this kid is bound and determined to become a mutant, and that he tried to dissuade him but it appears that it isn't working. I think that rather then Splinter thinking that it was OK to turn this kid away, he might have understood (and seen for himself) that this kid might not have the capacity to understand, and that a modified approach to things would have been necessary. I think that instead of Splinter turning Timmy away, that he might even have tried to work with him, and help him to gain some confidence about himself.

[JTH]

Originally Posted by Gabriel GP

*Giggles* Seriously, those who think that any episode of this series is dark have serious troubles just saying.

You do realize we're talking about a show that's geared to an age demographic of 2-11 right? What kind of "Dark" are you thinking of? "R" rated films?

Safe to say the "dark" you're thinking of is not on the same level of "dark" we're referring to.

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by Metalwolf

I think it's because the cat was put into a situation that could have been easily prevented, and this mutation is likely going to be limiting it's quality of life. No cat does well if it's constantly confined to a cage, and animals go actually go mad if they don't have sufficient mental stimulation. Would ICK even get that if she's limited to life in a freezer?

I usually don't use this argument but...cartoon logic.


ICKitty will be fine cause the writers say she will be XD I wouldn't think too hard about it. The cat seems pretty content.

it's not a normal kitty anymore....so cat logic doesn't completely apply either.
it's half Ice Cream for goodness sake XDD

[Gabriel GP]

Originally Posted by jth

You do realize we're talking about a show that's geared to an age demographic of 2-11 right? What kind of "Dark" are you thinking of? "R" rated films?

Safe to say the "dark" you're thinking of is not on the same level of "dark" we're referring to.

I know it, but even for kids, still not dark for me. I don't know about you, but when I was 5-6 yo, I was already seeing things made for adults, of course that I liked watch cartoons ( I still like nowadays ) but I'm just saying that this show isn't nearly close to be "dark" even for kids. They see much worse on internet.

[TurFlytle]

Originally Posted by Gabriel GP

I know it, but even for kids, still not dark for me. I don't know about you, but when I was 5-6 yo, I was already seeing things made for adults, of course that I liked watch cartoons ( I still like nowadays ) but I'm just saying that this show isn't nearly close to be "dark" even for kids. They see much worse on internet.

I agree. I've seen darker. If you want darker, you need gore, naked people, blood, nightmare fuel mutants, and someone actually dying. (minus Parasitic Wasp)