Interview With Michael Bay: Talks About Problems With TMNT

[BubblyShell22]

Exactly. Same goes with celebrity culture and how so many teenagers are enamored with boy bands and how hot the guys look when real life's a lot more complicated than that and it's not all about the looks. Again, it's the parent's job to do that and if they don't, their kids are in for a world of hurt. Luckily, I never saw Disney movies like that in my eyes. I liked Snow White for the dwarfs and the animals and Sleeping Beauty for the fairies. To hell with the princes.

[Leo656]

Well I also had those same stories as books, storybook-and-tape sets (Remember those?! ), seen other cartoon versions of stuff like Grimm's Fairy Tales, all that, so I was more than familiar with other versions of those same fairy tales. Most of them were much more "mature" than the Disney stuff, and I had to adjust to that. Seeing characters get killed or whatever in much more graphic ways than the "safe" Disney versions, etc. So even just by seeing three or four different versions of the same basic story, I was getting that much-needed "perspective".

Really, as screwed up as they were my parents really set me up with a great head start. They just kinda lost interest halfway through.

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by samxsteal

TMNT is and has always been lighthearted ALWAYS. This movie has a darker tone with lightheartedness. You keep Say that Bay was there and just said hey Add some freaking fart jokes Are you serious right now. GOD your insufferable dude You act as if your this all knowing Big shot

While it began as, and has been, in the mainstream consciousness, lighthearted, that's by no means the only level the property can work on, as evidenced by large, large patches of the Mirage series after #7 or so.

Which I think is important because those are the only times the material has actually bothered to engage the question of "Okay, but why am I reading a story about four giant mutant turtles?" on a level other than "lol because silliness." Which consequently led to some really great writing.

[Leo656]

As I've been discussing in another thread, while there's absolutely a lighthearted element inherent to the very concept of TMNT, there are ALSO a great deal of very real, very powerful themes/issues, that have presented themselves in every single version of the material, from Mirage to Archie and everything else that's ever been done with it. Even the "abysmal" second and third movies still win points by dealing with some of those things, even if they didn't go very far or execute those ideas all that well.

Not going to say the new movie didn't tackle some of those themes as well. They did, but not very well. But just like the second and third film, that's only *because* they were hamstrung by the idea that TMNT is "Silly Kids' Stuff". No, it really isn't, or at least, it shouldn't be. That's under-selling it.

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by Leo656

As I've been discussing in another thread, while there's absolutely a lighthearted element inherent to the very concept of TMNT, there are ALSO a great deal of very real, very powerful themes/issues, that have presented themselves in every single version of the material, from Mirage to Archie and everything else that's ever been done with it.

Ah, yeah. There's an inherent comic-book silliness to it even Mirage at its most serious never drops (because that wouldn't be engaging with that question in the way I meant above). But it massages it into a tone of alienating strangeness, or a platform for allowing the kinds of anything-goes, occasionally winking stories they need to get at real pathos.

But, yeah, the best strikes somewhere in that balance, in the way that it uses both sides to actually grapple with that underlying question. It has to acknowledge, 1) Yes, this is silly, but 2) Here's why it's set up this way and here's why you should care. And there are great answers for that second bit if the creators behind the project choose to care/engage with their material in a way that goes beyond coasting on recognition.

No creator going into a Turtles project who doesn't stop to ask, "Okay, in a vacuum, why would I choose to tell a story about four mutant ninja turtles?" is ever going to produce anything great.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by Cipher

No creator going into a Turtles project who doesn't stop to ask, "Okay, in a vacuum, why would I choose to tell a story about four mutant ninja turtles?" is ever going to produce anything great.

OMG, PREACH!

Perfectly said, you nailed it. I agreed with the entire post, but just felt this bared repeating.

[Xav]

Originally Posted by Powder

"Laugh Like a Drain Dudes!"

What in the turquoise f*ck does that mean?

It means to laugh loudly.
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/224000.html

[IndigoErth]

Interesting, never heard that before. Now, why NYC Turtles are using a "UK phrase, from around the time of WWII," I'll never know. lol Where's the publisher located.

[Leo656]

I've noticed that a few of the TMNT licensed books from back in the day were produced in the UK, that probably has something to do with it.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by BubblyShell22

Exactly. Same goes with celebrity culture and how so many teenagers are enamored with boy bands and how hot the guys look when real life's a lot more complicated than that and it's not all about the looks. Again, it's the parent's job to do that and if they don't, their kids are in for a world of hurt. Luckily, I never saw Disney movies like that in my eyes. I liked Snow White for the dwarfs and the animals and Sleeping Beauty for the fairies. To hell with the princes.

It's celebrity culture, though. The thing is that there are lots of ugly guys in boy bands. They're just marketed in such a way that weak, easily indoctrinated teenage girls believe that a guy HAS to be good looking simply because he's in a boyband.

Look at One Direction. Apart from the Asian (who is good looking enough to be a model, admittedly) none of them are remotely good looking. I see lots of better looking guys in the street every day yet they don't have females falling at their feet. It's ALL about the fame. Teenage girls would fancy Franck Ribery if he joined a boy band. Their attraction to pop stars really has absolutely nothing to do with how the guys actually look - it's the manufactured aspect of the group, the feeling is 'sisterhood' and shared identity by sharing a love of a pop band with their friends etc. The guys in the group are just the vehicle to make that happen.

I seen Grimm Fairy Tales mentioned. I read some of that. It's not of great quality, really, but it's worth a read when you wanna read something light and mindless.

"I really like Disney movies because they're fun, but if taken entirely literally they have some really questionable messages, like, "You have to be pretty for anyone to love you," or, "A girl isn't fully complete without her Prince Charming", and that's problematic. I think that's a problem when some parents, not all but some, think they can just plop their kids in front of a "kids movie" like it's okay, and never actually teach them anything, as if as long as it's a cartoon and there's songs it won't "hurt" them.

There's nothing at all wrong with Disney movies, my wife and I are huge Disney marks, but if a kid grew up using those movies as a Guide For Life instead of just something to watch for entertainment, they're gonna grow up with some serious issues. They need to also be exposed to different things so they have a sense of perspective."

The scary thing is that a lot of grown women actually do think that way. In their minds they are princesses who deserve to be adored and pursued. I've taken great pleasure in putting some of these sorts in their place in the past. Idiots.

[BubblyShell22]

Yep, I've known girls who act that way about guys all of the time, and it's just ridiculous how shallow they really are.

Don't get me wrong, I was a fan of certain boy bands and still do like some of the same ones I did before, but I've grown up and realize that not all boy bands are awesome. One Direction sucks, though my mom loves to tease me that I secretly like them. I have no problem admitting I do like Five Seconds of Summer though.

[Davetello]

You really have to wonder about the mentality of a teenage girl who will willingly devote her entire life to a **** pop band just because she's deluded enough to think some of the guys in the group are good looking. There's something seriously sick about someone - male or female - screaming in the presence of another human being just because they MIGHT be physically attractive. It's bizarre.

It always baffled me. I always think to myself "there's probably far smarter, more talented and better looking guy living next door to you or attending your school, but he's invisible to you because you're so caught up in this celebrity worshipping nonsense. You're so caught up in putting a flock of talentless little weasels on a plateau they really, really don't deserve to be put upon".

It really blows my mind. It's something I truly struggle to empathise with. I mean even female celebrities I think are physically attractive - I couldn't care less about them as people. I certainly wouldn't create slavish twitter accounts glorifying them every minute of the day and threatening anyone who dislikes them. What sort of pathetic thought process is that?

Never heard of Five Seconds of Summer.

[BubblyShell22]

That's okay that you've never heard of them. They're Australian and I think they're very talented. But that's the thing. I look at the songs and if I like them or not. I don't care about looks at all and don't feel I need to. I did back in the day because I wasn't in a relationship and had no idea how things like that worked, but now I've grown up and know a lot more about what REAL love is and I'll take that any day over falling in love with a boy band for their looks.

Back on topic, I just love how they realized they were screwed but it was too late to change anything. That tells you how horrible this movie really was.