Official Ep Discussion: S3 Ep7: "Eyes of the Chimera"

[hypnock]

Why didn't April get burned from the explosion?

[THGhost]

Thanks to the 4 people who sent me links to this.

This one was fun. I liked the scenes with Leo and April.
The Chimera's design was cool too. That's "kai-mair-uh", btw.
I'm actually starting to like Leo's voice now.


Did anyone else notice that Mikey's mouth didn't match what he was saying when he said "Oooh, bird, worm and fish"?

Probably not the first to ask this - where was the bird at the end of that last one? I just watched it again and cannot see it.

Originally Posted by ObiWanFan4life

When did Leonardo become Mr. Glass from Unbreakable?

I thought that too.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The human skeletons was a nice touch because it would fly over the heads of children yet older fans see the dark implications there.

Sure about that?

Originally Posted by evan2000

[BeanoKid95]

I liked this episode and...

April with Ninja Turtle eyes!

[zipper]

And yet another mutant of the week episode. I'm looking forward to Sunday's episode though.

[T-U-R-T-L-E POWA!]

I liked the episode pretty good. When Donnie started conducting that experiment on April did anyone think they were gonna do an homage to Ghostbusters when Venkman was showing the hot chick the cards and telling her she got it right when she actually got it wrong? Also, I'm not sure if this has been mentioned but Turducken is actually a thing that John Madden used to award to the best player on whatever Thanksgiving day game that he called. I was curious if there were some football fans on the writing staff that might have snuck that in there because of that. If that was a just a random word they though up then I'd say that's a pretty big coincidence. I liked it but I'm ready for them to go back to NY and try to find Splinter.

[blindturtle02]

So that's why I was thinking of football! Thanks. I had the mental equivalent to a rock in my shoe for the last two days.

[DevilSpooky]

Originally Posted by T-U-R-T-L-E POWA!

I liked the episode pretty good. When Donnie started conducting that experiment on April did anyone think they were gonna do an homage to Ghostbusters when Venkman was showing the hot chick the cards and telling her she got it right when she actually got it wrong? Also, I'm not sure if this has been mentioned but Turducken is actually a thing that John Madden used to award to the best player on whatever Thanksgiving day game that he called. I was curious if there were some football fans on the writing staff that might have snuck that in there because of that. If that was a just a random word they though up then I'd say that's a pretty big coincidence. I liked it but I'm ready for them to go back to NY and try to find Splinter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turducken

[Levia24]

I think in general it was a nice episode, despite extremely improbable things happening, like Leo being able to walk for no reason whatsoever, April and Leo surviving the ride on Chimera's back, as well as everyone surviving the rock avalanche, etc. It was all more or less acceptable because episode had some nice touches, like Leo and April bonding. The hug they shared at the and was so adorable ^__^

What I can't get over with since the start of season three, is Seth Green's voice. He's voice is just way, way too deep, Leo sounds like a grown up compare to the rest of the gang. I have a genuine dislike for Seth Green playing Leo to such measure, it ruins my experience of the whole 2012 show. I even think creators don't care much for the show anymore if they could hire someone like Seth Green to do Leo without noticing anything wrong. For this reason I'm afraid my interest in this show fades away, and I'm not seeing myself being able to watch it with same enthusiasm anymore

[T-U-R-T-L-E POWA!]

Originally Posted by blindturtle02

So that's why I was thinking of football! Thanks. I had the mental equivalent to a rock in my shoe for the last two days.

Well after seeing that Wikipedia article about it now I wonder if it has to do with the actual food or as an homage to John Madden. LOL. Either way it's good that I helped you get that figurative rock out of your shoe. I can't stand that feeling either.

[DevilSpooky]

Originally Posted by T-U-R-T-L-E POWA!

Well after seeing that Wikipedia article about it now I wonder if it has to do with the actual food or as an homage to John Madden. LOL. Either way it's good that I helped you get that figurative rock out of your shoe. I can't stand that feeling either.

Oh c'mon dude, even Mikey gives you an hint of what they're referencing here.

Michelangelo:Ooh! Bird, worm and fish. Three animals, one body. I know this one, there's like a perfect name for it in mythology!

Donatello: Chimera?

Michelangelo: No, Turducken!

3 animals? One body? A chicken inside a duck, inside a turkey?

[kelligrafie]

I liked how it did a flashback to demon car episode. I wouldn't want that in every episode but after a hiatus, it was a good idea.

I thought this episode was ok. I didn't love it, I didn't hate it. I'm glad that despite it being filler, most fans seemed to enjoy it, which makes a nice change.

I liked the idea of bonding between Leo and April but as neither of those two are anywhere near my favourite TMNT characters, it didn't mean as much to me as it would have if say Raphael and Donnie were bonding, or Mikey and Casey.

Man I would love a Mikey/Casey episode.

But I wouldn't be too bothered if the chimera never showed up again. Boring. Probably my least favourite villain this season.

[BubblyShell22]

Originally Posted by Levia24

I think in general it was a nice episode, despite extremely improbable things happening, like Leo being able to walk for no reason whatsoever, April and Leo surviving the ride on Chimera's back, as well as everyone surviving the rock avalanche, etc. It was all more or less acceptable because episode had some nice touches, like Leo and April bonding. The hug they shared at the and was so adorable ^__^

What I can't get over with since the start of season three, is Seth Green's voice. He's voice is just way, way too deep, Leo sounds like a grown up compare to the rest of the gang. I have a genuine dislike for Seth Green playing Leo to such measure, it ruins my experience of the whole 2012 show. I even think creators don't care much for the show anymore if they could hire someone like Seth Green to do Leo without noticing anything wrong. For this reason I'm afraid my interest in this show fades away, and I'm not seeing myself being able to watch it with same enthusiasm anymore

But they explained why his voice changed due to his ambush, so I think it's great that they did that. And there's nothing wrong with it at all. The creators do care about the show and thought Seth was a good fit, which he is. I'm sorry you don't like his voice for Leo, but I think it's a great fit and enjoy listening to him as I think he's come into his own with the role. Yes, it took some getting used to at first, but I'm accustomed to it now, and that's a good thing.

[penumbra369]

I loved this ep so much!

Just the other day I could've launched into a ginormous complaint about self-righteous, overpowered, Mary-Sue'd April in the official vent thread. She's just rubbed me all kinds of wrong.

Then I watched this ep. Greg Weisman has shown me that all April needed was a touch of humor. I realized the biggest flaw in April was that the writers, for the most part, put her on way too high a pedestal. But Eyes of the Chimera had her walking into a tree, lecturing thin air where she thought Leo was, bantering pretty realistically ("That's a little difficult right now!"), and just being so much more approachable without losing her basic inner strength. Bless Greg Weisman's heart.

Also, I'm a sucker for bromance. This ep had it in spades. My favorite moments were between Casey and Raph, both dialogue and body language. Bros for life right there!

I'm cool with Seth Green's Leo, liking him more with each new ep - this might put me in the minority, but IMO Leo's better off with a whole new voice than one trying to imitate the old voice. All respect for Jason Biggs and Dominic Catrambone, I just don't expect Seth Green to stuff himself into their mold. Neither does the show, or he wouldn't have been cast. I think he's doing fine.

[Levia24]

Glad to hear there are people who are getting used to Seth Green's voice and are able to enjoy this show. Personally, I have nothing against Seth Green, heck he seem quite enthusiastic about his work and is a fan of turtles. It's just that for me, his voice in this show stands out from the rest of the cast so painfully obvious, it's hard to listen. He's voice is somehow too loud, too deep and have a coarse quality, which would make him a perfect cast for a grisly bear, for instance. But teenage Leo? A character that in all previous incarnations had a higher pitched male voice, even as a grown-up? No. Decisively not.

Not to go off topic, I really liked Chimera's design in this episode, this is one of the rare monsters that are actually scary and interesting to look at. But that might be because the creature is copypasta from "The Giant Claw" 1957 science fiction film, lol.

And April, I finally agree - she is becoming a huuuge Mary-Sue black hole, isn't she? Not only does she have two of the main cast in love with her, but now she's the driving force behind Leo's resolve? Dude, did they overpower her or what... not to mention how she's constantly right about everything and have pivotal role in every main plot turn. I admit didn't notice this at first, but now I think I'm seeing what everyone has been talking about regarding April's unrealistic character.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

I think the problem with Seth Green's voice for Leo is not that it's bad but that it's a radical change from the other two's voices. It gives Leo a much deeper tone where as Jason's made him sound more like a teen who's building up to be a leader and Dominique's made him sound more like a chill teen.

If you want my opinion, I think Leo's upgrade in voice actors is getting better for me. Seth Green sounded jarring at first and he still sounds less like a teenager then the other two but honestly at this point, I could care less about the teenage aspect of this show. I for one am enjoying his voice as it makes Leo sound more like the Leo I know and love. I welcome Seth Green with open arms and wished he voice Leo from the start of this series. But voice actors tend to change, so what can you do. *shrugs*

[Shark_Blade]

I finally got to see it, love the Apritello moment at the end.

April hugging Leo was nice too.

[BubblyShell22]

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

I think the problem with Seth Green's voice for Leo is not that it's bad but that it's a radical change from the other two's voices. It gives Leo a much deeper tone where as Jason's made him sound more like a teen who's building up to be a leader and Dominique's made him sound more like a chill teen.

If you want my opinion, I think Leo's upgrade in voice actors is getting better for me. Seth Green sounded jarring at first and he still sounds less like a teenager then the other two but honestly at this point, I could care less about the teenage aspect of this show. I for one am enjoying his voice as it makes Leo sound more like the Leo I know and love. I welcome Seth Green with open arms and wished he voice Leo from the start of this series. But voice actors tend to change, so what can you do. *shrugs*

Totally agree that Seth should have been there from the beginning, but he's here now, and he's rocking it, so that's good.

And I agree about April, too. I thought she was pretty balanced and not too Mary Sueish, but she is a partial Sue. I think I would call her a total Sue if she used her powers all of the time, but that usually is the case while dealing with the Kraang, and considering the chimera got mutagen poured on it, it would make sense that April's powers would work that way, too with her seeing it. So I don't think she's a total Sue, but more of a borderline Sue. If she starts using her powers more to rescue the guys to the point where they don't even fight anymore, then I'll call her a total Sue.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by BubblyShell22

Totally agree that Seth should have been there from the beginning, but he's here now, and he's rocking it, so that's good.

And I agree about April, too. I thought she was pretty balanced and not too Mary Sueish, but she is a partial Sue. I think I would call her a total Sue if she used her powers all of the time, but that usually is the case while dealing with the Kraang, and considering the chimera got mutagen poured on it, it would make sense that April's powers would work that way, too with her seeing it. So I don't think she's a total Sue, but more of a borderline Sue. If she starts using her powers more to rescue the guys to the point where they don't even fight anymore, then I'll call her a total Sue.

Well it depend if she is never challenge, is always right, beloved by everyone even by the bad guys, and everyone constantly telling us that she is awesome then yes she would be a complete mary sue.

But let's look at some idealized characters are sometimes falsely label as mary sues.

Example A: Superman
Superman so overpowered but you what? He actually a better written character then...Batman. Yes Batman! . Superman may be stupid strong but in the hands of a good writer, he is never unchallenged because his enemies are often demigods that even sometimes succeed in killing him.

Batman on the other hand will know every field of science know to man, is a super genius detective, master martial artist that can easily defeated 20 guys.

The only thing that keeps Batman in check is that he has morally questionable motives that borderlines on being a complete sociopath. But if no one question him or calls him out of his BS then he is freaking Sasuke. In other words an anti sue.

Example B: Tohru Honda from Fruit Basket
Now I will admit that this harder to defend but what makes this character works and what others fail is that Honda's life was hard and even though she has bad days, she puts on a brave face and works her ass off in her part time job as a janitor while still going to high school (which she has a hard time keeping up with) instead giving a diatribe on how horrible her life is. That is what makes this character brilliant because instead her just telling the sob story or having moments of explosion of diarrhea angst, we see subtle signs of her pain through out the story.

Example C: Twilight Sparkles
Just because she an alicorn princess doesn't mean she doesn't have her share of troubles because let me tell you, when you ascend to level of power, it comes a whole new level of scrutiny. **** is going to get real my friends and god forbid if you make a mistake or appear human because the public has a way of never living it down. Just go ask Princess Luna.

So when we look at April, is she really a sue? It depends on who writing her because execution is what matters most.

What I want to see done with April is to go through a internal character struggle of being who she wants to be vs she is in real life.

Now I am not saying she should never try to improve herself, but I have notice that she had a ugly duckling stage and even more so, she doesn't seem to have a lot of friends outside of Casey and the turtles. I am betting that stage was un pleasant. She probably didn't really like herself back then. You could say that her problem was that she had a poor self image but I betting that it goes deeper.

Her father is a ethologist (animal psychologist) that study rats in mazes. Being a single parent, he probably brought his work home more then once, and April would always play with them which lead her to have this fascination with rats and that fascination grew into zoology and xenofiction (science fiction, fantasy and realistic stories that were told from an animal perspective or anything that was nonhuman). However when she told all the girls in elementary school, their respond was anything but positive. Everyone and everybody had this strong mental image of rats as disease vermin, but no one knew that rats were smart, strong and loving creatures and no one cared. She wasn't really tease but she wasn't notice either. There just wasn't anything that she could related to the other kids. Then one day when she finally had her braces off, she look in the mirror and smiled. "Wow, I don't look a nerd anymore." It was at that moment when she had an epiphany.

My point is to avoided going on about this unintentionally head canon fan fic is that April wants to be this idealized awesome cool popular person but there this nerdy Eliza Thornberry side who won't shut up about the freaking animals!
This all change after being around Donnie because wow, nerds can save the world, but there a bit of hesitation because you see she have been this new persona for a long time to a point where she sort of became the mask. She not sure if she can go back to be that smart little girl again that knew a lot about animals. Does she even want to or should she focus on improving her ninjustsu that fits with her new persona? Or maybe she can have a balance of both? Personal improvement and renewing an old interest that was a huge part of her life.

I know it's not exciting to put in a single laser focus character episode but at least it something for April.
Be yourself vs To change yourself to be better.

[ssjup81]

Personally, a Mary Sue/Gary Stu to me is a character portrayed as being unable to do anything wrong, liked by practically all of the characters, never or rarely having any consequences for her actions, and seen as being flawless. April is flawed to me and not viewed as liked by everyone (meaning the characters in the show).

The only character who comes to mind for me who fits the Mary Sue thing, imo, is Lola (or was it Lila?) from Hey Arnold...although granted, she was purposely written that way. Everyone, minus Helga, adored her and she came across as perfect in every way. Even the way she spoke was "perfect". Seriously, she could've gone on a killing spree and the other characters still would've praised her.

Luckyday: When I saw "Twilight Sparkles", I thought it was a jab at Edward from Twilight. lol

[penumbra369]

Originally Posted by Luckyday

So when we look at April, is she really a sue? It depends on who writing her because execution is what matters most.

What I want to see done with April is to go through a internal character struggle of being who she wants to be vs she is in real life.

Great point about execution - that's why I was so pleasantly surprised by how Weisman wrote her, and I like your ideas as well. I too think she's in an unenviable phase of life; she even says so herself in "Karai's Vendetta." I guess those moments she's rubbed me the most wrong (like when she calls herself almost a full-fledged kunoichi after training only a few months *imagines Karai rolling her eyes* or when she tells off Master Splinter for "doing nothing" as if she knows exactly what he has endured) can be explained by her frustration with her own struggles.

Still, I would agree she's at least a borderline Sue, as BubblyShell22 says.