TMNT 2 Starts Filming in April in NYC!

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

And at the end of the day that's all any of this is- OPINIONS. And ALL are valid, but some folks think theirs are superior, and that anyone with an alternate POV should be mocked. And it's ridiculous..

Actually, that's not at all true. Not ALL opinions are valid. Again, extreme example to prove a point - kinda my thing - but some people are of the Opinion that the Holocaust was a swell idea and would like to see someone try again. Clearly that person's opinion is Wrong, and if not, I'm... not sure I want to hear the reasons Why Not. They're wrong. They're Just Wrong. Just to establish, conclusively, that opinions can be Just Wrong. People seem to have a difficult time with this concept.

Further, I wouldn't quite mock or belittle someone JUST for their opinion, but I will take a look in how they came to their conclusion and go from there. As far as this particular movie goes, well... frankly, I dismiss any opinion that has nothing behind it other than "I liked/disliked it because I did", which is an uncomfortable number of people. And it's usually people whose Opinions are THAT shallow, that have a hard time when people point out that maybe they're not looking at things objectively. People who go out of their way to reject ANY critical objection/analysis of the movie, and call people things like "haters" for pointing out the numerous things, great and small, that are wrong with it.

Basically, I've noticed that, everything else being equal, people who Didn't like it can give a lot more reasons Why, than people who Did, and are much better at having a conversation about it without anyone's feelings getting hurt. Well, that may suck for people who liked it, but maybe the movie should have been better in the first place? Maybe "I liked it, leave mah movie alone!" by itself isn't worthy of being considered "discussion," "debate", or "discourse"?

Too many people want to argue that the sky is pink and call it "their opinion", then get pissy when people point out that there's holes in their logic. Not Okay. People need to either elevate their standards of entertainment, OR, get a thicker skin if they absolutely insist on liking awful things.

People can like awful things but you also shouldn't pretend they're good just because they're entertaining on a "what am I doing with my life" level.

[TrickOrTreater]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

No, I've noticed it too. I don't have a "stick up my ass" about the movie (liked it, but admit it had flaws), but seriously, can't you say something besides snarky, sarcastic comments directed at not just the movie, but the people who liked it, TOO?! It really IS getting old, boring, and petty.

I don't give a f*ck.

[Leo656]

So much for diplomacy.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Perhaps t'was gunboat diplomacy?

Originally Posted by Leo656

So much for diplomacy.

[TrickOrTreater]

Originally Posted by Leo656

So much for diplomacy.

Doesn't even matter.

They'll say I'm mean and then put me on ignore, they'll have had their little tantrum and then everything will be fine.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Totally understandable. However, I don't think that Holocaust example was the best. That wasn't simply an opinion, it was a complete mind-set from a very disturbed individual. Tried reading some of his auto-bio once- he was nuts. I think that's quite a bit different than just liking or disliking something.

That said, there were quite a few reasons I DID like it- I actually found the designs pretty good, for one thing. A bit "busy" in the gear, maybe, but otherwise likable. And Mikey's blatant crushing was pretty funny, to me, if slightly over-done. He's a raging ball of teen hormones, who's never been around a female before, so of course he's going to go overboard. And when he wasn't macking on April, he was actually pretty spot-on character-wise, unless we're going full-on Mirage, which I don't. I was kind of relieved he wasn't the dumbed-down Nick version.

The others were all pretty well-done. for me, too. Could've done without Donnie's pack and solar-panel gear, but.... *shrugs* Leo was the "best", and pretty dead-on, too. Liked his voice, and since I've never seen Jackass, I didn't care who it was.

The action was intense, exciting, and fun, and I enjoyed a lot of the humorous moments. Elevator scene. Nuff said. Only REAL problems I had were with Shredder and Sach's plan being kind of obvious from the get-go, but I tried not to put too much logic into that, given the police apparently weren't doing much about the Foot to begin with. I guess this New York is in a bubble-world where the government and other institutions don't exist. I'm okay with that, since it gave the boys a reason to be involved in the first place. Otherwise, they would just be- there? And April's connection at least made their involvement make sense. They inadvertently screwed up by taking her down to the lair. Oops. They made a mistake. I get that. Could've happened some other way, if she hadn't accidentally let the Foot right to them.

My biggest reason for liking it was probably the turtles themselves, but I found things all through the movie that I really liked for their own sake, as well as in context of the film. Story could have been better, but it's no worse than some other comic-based stories or movies I've seen. Middle of the road, I'd say.

[TrickOrTreater]

"Oh my god, how many times do we have to hear that you liked it? Jeeze we GET it MoVe ON! ShEEsh"

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Originally Posted by TrickOrTreater

Doesn't even matter.

They'll say I'm mean and then put me on ignore, they'll have had their little tantrum and then everything will be fine.

By "they", I assume you mean everyone who's tired of hearing it? Yeah, let me go throw my "tantrum" now.... I didn't even say you were mean, just annoying. Let's move on, shall we?

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Originally Posted by TrickOrTreater

"Oh my god, how many times do we have to hear that you liked it? Jeeze we GET it MoVe ON! ShEEsh"

Oh, sorry, I thought this was a reasonable discussion, not a rant-fest. My bad. I was answering Leo's post about folks not giving REASONS for liking it. Was that too much for you? Or are we only allowed to post snarky comments? Make up your mind, will you?!!

[TrickOrTreater]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

By "they", I assume you mean everyone who's tired of hearing it? Yeah, let me go throw my "tantrum" now.... I didn't even say you were mean, just annoying. Let's move on, shall we?

The five or so people who can't handle sarcasm about their favorite dumb movie?

However will I go on with this knowledge?

Yeah I don't give a f*ck. Telling me over and over again isn't going to make me give a f*ck either.

So either put me on ignore or or grow the hell up.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by ScrewtheMirageTMNT

I have a terrible feeling that we won't see super shredder.

I wouldn't be surprise if he shows up in some form of mutation. When he fell, He still had that canister of Ooze.

But I have a feeling the movie will be Shredder coming back, Eric Sacks gets out of jail and reunites with the Shredder, He figures out how to rework the mutagen to there advantage, and create Bebop and Rocksteady.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I think you summed up my entire opinion on why I like the movie and the things that didn't bother me. May I quote you in the future?

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Totally understandable. However, I don't think that Holocaust example was the best. That wasn't simply an opinion, it was a complete mind-set from a very disturbed individual. Tried reading some of his auto-bio once- he was nuts. I think that's quite a bit different than just liking or disliking something.

That said, there were quite a few reasons I DID like it- I actually found the designs pretty good, for one thing. A bit "busy" in the gear, maybe, but otherwise likable. And Mikey's blatant crushing was pretty funny, to me, if slightly over-done. He's a raging ball of teen hormones, who's never been around a female before, so of course he's going to go overboard. And when he wasn't macking on April, he was actually pretty spot-on character-wise, unless we're going full-on Mirage, which I don't. I was kind of relieved he wasn't the dumbed-down Nick version.

The others were all pretty well-done. for me, too. Could've done without Donnie's pack and solar-panel gear, but.... *shrugs* Leo was the "best", and pretty dead-on, too. Liked his voice, and since I've never seen Jackass, I didn't care who it was.

The action was intense, exciting, and fun, and I enjoyed a lot of the humorous moments. Elevator scene. Nuff said. Only REAL problems I had were with Shredder and Sach's plan being kind of obvious from the get-go, but I tried not to put too much logic into that, given the police apparently weren't doing much about the Foot to begin with. I guess this New York is in a bubble-world where the government and other institutions don't exist. I'm okay with that, since it gave the boys a reason to be involved in the first place. Otherwise, they would just be- there? And April's connection at least made their involvement make sense. They inadvertently screwed up by taking her down to the lair. Oops. They made a mistake. I get that. Could've happened some other way, if she hadn't accidentally let the Foot right to them.

My biggest reason for liking it was probably the turtles themselves, but I found things all through the movie that I really liked for their own sake, as well as in context of the film. Story could have been better, but it's no worse than some other comic-based stories or movies I've seen. Middle of the road, I'd say.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by TrickOrTreater

I don't give a f*ck.

lol. I mean, as brief as it is, Trick has a point.

I share his anger, obviously. I was on Bay's side in the beginning. I still stand behind my claim that BAY can make incredible action films. He can.

But he didn't "make" this film. This is all on Fuller and Liebseman, not wanting to so much make a film, but rather, a product. He stepped in, and tried to fix it, and it still sucked, mainly, because he was on TF4, not giving his full attention to this little remake they were doing, but also because he's not a fan, and I can't blame him. If someone asked me to make a Power Rangers film, it would SUCK HARD. I'm not the guy. BUT if they said, "If you make this Power Rangers film, you'll make Millions of Dollars, and all you need to do is put your name on it", well folks, i'm making that ****** PR film. My millions beat your opinion. Anyone would do the same.

He didn't go after the rights, FULLER did. FULLER asked to involve him. FULLER HAS SAID SO. But they didn't understand what they were supposed to make. They didn't get it, anyone arguing otherwise doesn't get it either. And that is impossibly frustrating.

I feel like other comicbooks are getting their due, while we are getting the scraps. I really do. And I also feel, that the only way to get them to pay attention, is to be as loud as I can, online. What other recourse is there? I can't accept this as the best we're going to get, and i can't accept that better isn't possible. There is a market for quality entertainment, don't kid yourself.

If i'm being absolutely honest, there have only been a handfull of moments in the entire history of TMNT's existence where the brand has actually been great. that's the truth, no matter how you slice it. More often than not, it's been sillified, and made for children. an ingenious idea has been trounced and trolliped, tarted and tainted for decades, because we we're all indoctrinated into as children.

We'll they sowed the oats in our youth, it's time to pay up folks.

The closest thing in recent memory of anything that brought out the kid in me, was Nicks hour long special back in the Summer. I actually thoroughly enjoyed that. I also really really enjoyed the Mirage segment in Turtles Forever. It was so fitting, to end the 4kids days with "oh, you want to see what the real turtles were like? Check this out".

Boom. It was amazing. It was meta. It was perfect.

That's the movie we deserved, as fans. We SHOULD be united, not arguing one another . We SHOULD be demanding better. We SHOULD be heard.

[Leo656]

I hate it when my buddies can't get along. This Movie Ruins Everything.

Duckie: Well, from the other side, I thought that "Everything Wrong With" video could easily have been twice as long and that they left out a TON of things that could have been mentioned. I didn't find ANY of the "humor" funny in the least. The acting was terrible. The dialog delivery was painful. Logical inconsistencies and continuity problems galore. I could go on... and on... and on... I mean, for me, someone who cares as much about How movies are made, just the fact this thing was made with Zero care, by people who HAD zero care, is enough for me to paint it black.

Honestly... ((Deep Breath))... This is as nicely as I can say it: I honestly think someone can ONLY like this movie, if they made up their mind way, WAY before it ever existed that they were going to like it. It. Is. BAD. "It's TMNT" is literally the only "good" thing anyone could ever possibly say about it. Even they WAY they made it - taking one "Big" scene from an early draft and building every single script around it, completely making up the rest of the story on the fly AS they were making it, etc. - is textbook Bad Filmmaking. Even "nitpicky" stuff like "It's sunny, it's pouring rain, it's sunny again and everything's bone-dry"... that's bad. You're Not Supposed To Do That. It's a badly-made film. It is a film that was made badly. People can't just say that's not true. It's entirely true and it's not merely Opinions.

And to me, the example I gave IS fitting, because this is a smaller scale, but at the same time it IS a debate about a mindset, an ethos, that being whether or not people should tolerate/celebrate movies that are Openly Bad On Purpose, because "they're just movies so whatevs, no bigs", or if people, especially fans, deserve something more substantial. My argument? No, you NEVER make a bad movie on purpose, and as a fan, you damn sure don't eat it with a smile, you throw it back in their face and demand they do better next time. Others disagree and are more casual about it. Fair enough. But since they seemingly care so little about the quality of their entertainment, or whether or not any kind of thought or effort goes into it, it begs the question why they like Anything. I mean, is it like kittens with string? "I just like it, and I don't know why, I just do?"

That's... "Better"? "Nicer"? "More Positive"? Not... not really.
--------------------------------------------------------------

42: Damn, man, you nailed that pretty solid.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Originally Posted by TrickOrTreater

The five or so people who can't handle sarcasm about their favorite dumb movie?

either put me on ignore or or grow the hell up.

You first. I can take plenty of criticism about a movie- can't stand rude and snotty attitudes, though. It's uncalled for. And I can be sarcastic to people, too- I just generally choose NOT to. There's such a thing as courtesy- didn't you know? Here's a thought- if you hate it so much, why keep posting about it? Or even be in this sub-forum at all? Yeah, THAT makes about as much sense as Sach's plan.... (See, I can do the sarcastic movie comment, too.)

[TrickOrTreater]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

can't stand rude and snotty attitudes, though.

If you can't, then why haven't you put me on ignore yet?

I mean, I know why, but I doubt you do.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

I wouldn't be surprise if he shows up in some form of mutation. When he fell, He still had that canister of Ooze.

Think he also had a touch of it on his finger.

Now what that's supposed to imply when he's wearing a largely impenetrable suit - that broke the ground instead of himself after the fall - and mutagen that appears to require injection... who knows. I suppose it's magic human-healing powers saved him through the suit.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

If i'm being absolutely honest, there have only been a handfull of moments in the entire history of TMNT's existence where the brand has actually been great. that's the truth, no matter how you slice it. More often than not, it's been sillified, and made for children. an ingenious idea has been trounced and trolliped, tarted and tainted for decades, because we we're all indoctrinated into as children.

I don't agree with you 100%. I think it's more accurate to say that the most public aspects of the Ninja Turtles have been the sillified juvenile series: Next Mutation, the movies, and the Fred Wolf cartoon. All of the comic series (Mirage, Image, IDW, even Adventures) were serious and aimed at adults as much as teens. And those are the ones people never know about, in my experience.

The Fred Wolf cartoon is a huge double-edged sword. Without it, I don't think TMNT would ever have seen life as more than Mirage Volume 1. Fred Wolf popularized it and marketed the HELL out of it. But it did so at the cost of TMNT's credibility and appeal to mature audiences. And so we are forever damned by "Cowabunga" and pizza. Bittersweet.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Think he also had a touch of it on his finger.

Now what that's supposed to imply when he's wearing a largely impenetrable suit - that broke the ground instead of himself after the fall - and mutagen that appears to require injection... who knows. I suppose it's magic human-healing powers saved him through the suit.

The thing is, How do they know the Mutagen has magical healing powers, When they tested on the Turtles, We saw what resulted, Eric Sacks was surprised by the result of the mutagen, So with that knowledge, He can create a army of Super Soldiers for the Foot Clan.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

The thing is, How do they know the Mutagen has magical healing powers, When they tested on the Turtles, We saw what resulted, Eric Sacks was surprised by the result of the mutagen, So with that knowledge, He can create a army of Super Soldiers for the Foot Clan.

Yeah, exactly, and probably another thing that cinema sins video should have pointed out. Sacks runs off with that canister, set on having his plan back in action after drawing mutagen out of the Turtles who...I can only assume were not an expected result? So the mutagen that was lost within them when the lab was destroyed was not yet perfected or human tested, but now it's suddenly fine... righhhhht.

Although the Turtles supposedly used the mutagen to save Splinter, so maybe they did swipe the canister? Leaving Shredder with only the dab on his finger. I guess he could use that small sample to try to recreate it, maybe.