Official Ep Discussion: S3 Ep10: "Serpent Hunt"

[Shark_Blade]

Now if Shredder can get together with Kraang Prime, bantering like old married couple with Bebop and Rocksteady on their heels, then it'll be like OT.

Alas, he's gonna keep looking for Karai. I wonder what'll happen if he found her at last. She wouldn't return to him definitely, so...

I guess Karai's gonna die. It's weird having her hanging around with the turtles is it..? Too much power for the team>

[Bitsy83]

Originally Posted by Shark_Blade

Now if Shredder can get together with Kraang Prime, bantering like old married couple with Bebop and Rocksteady on their heels, then it'll be like OT.

Alas, he's gonna keep looking for Karai. I wonder what'll happen if he found her at last. She wouldn't return to him definitely, so...

I guess Karai's gonna die. It's weird having her hanging around with the turtles is it..? Too much power for the team>

I can see one of two things happening to Karai.

Either she'll turn back into a human and decide to go on a "Quest for Honor" (No, that was NOT a Zuko reference!) and maybe return to Tokyo and try to be a vigilante or something.

OR she tries to defeat Shredder on her own terms and maybe try to take over the Foot Clan, only making them a force of good.

Only reason why I say that is because Shredder kept thinking that's what he was doing by rebuilding the Foot clan after the Hamato clan destroy it, but it had to be destroyed because they were horrible people. It isn't the ninja clan that's evil; it's the actions of their leader. So maybe it'll be like the 2007 movie and she takes it over to either to mercenary work or as a fighting evil force or....something like that.

But you're right, I really can't see her joining the Turtles despite her being Splinter's daughter. It'd just be weird at this point.

[victory_angel]

I also don't see her joining the turtles as living with them. I can see her learning how to be friends with April and assisting with her training as a Kunoichi. But as long as the Shredder wants to try and get her back as his daughter it would put them all in danger.

Perhaps if her mutation is stablized she feels that she should remain as a mutant because she has accepted what she has become and she feels a sense of freedom that she wouldn't have as a human (being fought over by her two father figures). And much like Slash she will be an ally/anti-hero.

[Karai Samurai]

Forgive me for my limited TMNT knowledge outside of this show, but doesn't Karai eventually become the leader of the Foot after Shredder dies or something? I would love to see that on this show (after she fully demutates, of course)


It's interesting to see that decades after the fall of the Soviet Union, the trope of the Communist Russian villian is still used.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Karai Samurai

Forgive me for my limited TMNT knowledge outside of this show, but doesn't Karai eventually become the leader of the Foot after Shredder dies or something? I would love to see that on this show (after she fully demutates, of course)


It's interesting to see that decades after the fall of the Soviet Union, the trope of the Communist Russian villian is still used.

As originally depicted Shredder only lead the NYC branch of the Foot, Karai was really the true leader of the Foot all along and took over the NYC branch when it became a threat to the citizens of NYC, this happened because Shredder died.

Basically imagine that Karai is the CEO of McDonald's, Shredder is the guy in charge of a McDonald's in Europe and when he died there was a loophole that allowed the European McDonald's to split from the McDonalds corporation and do it's own thing with McDonalds assets. This makes a mess and Karai goes ahead and takes control of the situation.

From the 2003 show onward, Karai is depicted as an underling of Shredder because, you know, marketability.

[SophieDem]

Originally Posted by Karai Samurai

It's interesting to see that decades after the fall of the Soviet Union, the trope of the Communist Russian villian is still used.

I honestly think it works. It just makes Steranko more entertaining. How will Rocksteady sound with Russian accent? Had to check the '87 version but there that giant rhino wasn't Russian. Hmm... I'm going to be interested in that.

[Karai Samurai]

Originally Posted by neatoman

As originally depicted Shredder only lead the NYC branch of the Foot, Karai was really the true leader of the Foot all along and took over the NYC branch when it became a threat to the citizens of NYC, this happened because Shredder died.

Basically imagine that Karai is the CEO of McDonald's, Shredder is the guy in charge of a McDonald's in Europe and when he died there was a loophole that allowed the European McDonald's to split from the McDonalds corporation and do it's own thing with McDonalds assets. This makes a mess and Karai goes ahead and takes control of the situation.

From the 2003 show onward, Karai is depicted as an underling of Shredder because, you know, marketability.

Thanks for the help. It seems like the writers don't know what to do with Karai. I'd rather not see her permanently join the turtles, though....actually I'll prefer to see her remain part of the Foot or maybe an independent vigilante.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Karai Samurai

Thanks for the help. It seems like the writers don't know what to do with Karai. I'd rather not see her permanently join the turtles, though....actually I'll prefer to see her remain part of the Foot or maybe an independent vigilante.

I'm rewatching season now, I understand that there are a lot of things the writers don't really know what to do with, but yeah, Karai is one of them.

In the 2003 show her character arc is pretty clear: Bring order to the Foot, struggle with loyalty, stick to loyalty, revenge and forgiveness (and then she repeats step 2 in the movie but whatever). Here it sort of comes off as: Be a total evil bitch, sob over a mother she can't possibly have any memory of, turn good because Splinter might be her dad, get mutated because her not-dad had a stupid plan, run around as a monster, wait to see what happens. She seems more like a plot device for Shredder and Splinter to have character development, rather her having much character development herself.

It does suck because it could have so easily been about the internal conflict of trying to figure out her place, is the father the twisted but still loving man who raised her, or the one who she only has a biological connection to but wants to be part of her life? Nature or Nurture.

But no, instead we get this Star Wars nonsense where the biological father matters to person, just because he's the biological father and thus she can throw away any emotional connection to the man who raised her. You know what I mean right?

Originally Posted by Luke Skywalker

Hi, my name is Luke Skywalker! I was raised by my non-biological uncle for the first twenty years of my life and all I knew about my dad were false statements. The day I learned that my father was actually a badass wizard-knight, my uncle was brutally killed, I decided to spend the rest of my life emulating the father I never knew and never spoke of my uncle ever again. A while later I found out that my dad was still alive, turns out that he was a brutal warlord who who hunted down warriors, killed men who surrendered, tortured people without asking questions, dishonored legal arrangements, murdered his subordinates all the time, blew up planets, believed hatred to be strength, cut off my hand and then tried to use me as a tool for conquest. But I still believed there was still good in him and he showed it by saving me for torture... through killing someone...

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by neatoman

She seems more like a plot device for Shredder and Splinter to have character development, rather her having much character development herself.

That what I keep saying when the writers have zero idea what to do with characters and then mutate them which still doesn't do anything in character development.

Now instead of getting excited to see someone mutant, all I can think of "Goodbye interesting character, hello mutant backdrop prop".

I swear to god if the only thing Bebop and Rocksteady will only be use for is henchman 6 and 7, I might lose it. They had gone so much trouble with giving those two unique personalities and backstory then they should make use of that in future episodes. Make them stand out damnit.

[BubblyShell22]

I'd love to see Karai join the Turtles, but I feel there's a reluctance there and definitely some conflict. I can see her wanting to avenge her mother eventually if she gets turned to a human again and maybe going rogue if she really feels that way.

[DarkLightDragon]

Originally Posted by neatoman

I'm rewatching season now, I understand that there are a lot of things the writers don't really know what to do with, but yeah, Karai is one of them.

In the 2003 show her character arc is pretty clear: Bring order to the Foot, struggle with loyalty, stick to loyalty, revenge and forgiveness (and then she repeats step 2 in the movie but whatever). Here it sort of comes off as: Be a total evil bitch, sob over a mother she can't possibly have any memory of, turn good because Splinter might be her dad, get mutated because her not-dad had a stupid plan, run around as a monster, wait to see what happens. She seems more like a plot device for Shredder and Splinter to have character development, rather her having much character development herself.

It does suck because it could have so easily been about the internal conflict of trying to figure out her place, is the father the twisted but still loving man who raised her, or the one who she only has a biological connection to but wants to be part of her life? Nature or Nurture.

But no, instead we get this Star Wars nonsense where the biological father matters to person, just because he's the biological father and thus she can throw away any emotional connection to the man who raised her. You know what I mean right?

I honestly take her willing to drop Shredder for Splinter was simply because Shredder wasn't much of a *good* dad towards her anyway. A good master? Yes. But as a paternal figure for whom she could recall warm memories of him or indications where he maybe, just maybe, was a loving and decent dad? I dunno, this show operates more on telling us rather than showing by having him say, "I RAISED HER! I CARED FOR HER!" Umm, yeah, that's nice, but none of that's really specific and you don't bother even giving me examples where you had genuinely happy moments with her together like any parent and child would have. Honestly, his crazed obsession over wanting her back strikes me more of him just losing his most special 'prize' of him one-upping Splinter rather than a human being who should make her own choices. She's more of a possession than person to him, and just tries to justify it to himself by saying the words, "my daughter" so it sounds more personal and reasonable to others.

Though I will admit it would've been nice to have her actually first have some doubt that she'd be accepted into the family or question if Splinter, despite being her biological father, would even love her at all. After all, not all biological parents make good parents either. Just some weariness for her to take pause before Leo or any of the other Turtles reassures her that everything will be okay.

[RedOnYellow]

How the hell are people comparing Karai to Luke Skywalker.

Are they forgetting that Shredder outright has lied to her her entire life about being directly involved in her mother's murder? And it's not like Karai ever even had a maternal figure to fill that spot anyway. Sometimes I think some of you bitch just because you enjoy the sound of your own voices.

As for Karai, if it were up to me, she'd join the Mutanimals, a group full of characters like Mondo Gecko and Leatherhead and Slash and others who help each other come to terms and control their mutations. They're staunch allies of the Turtles but it'd give a good reason for them (and her) to not be able to constantly save the Turtle's asses. The Turtles remain the underdog while Karai and the other mutants get to stay relevant in the show. You can even have Karai visit sometime to meditate with Splinter and stuff, and have the ending of the show hint she's moving back in with him permanently.

But at this point who the **** knows.

[DarkLightDragon]

Originally Posted by RedOnYellow

How the hell are people comparing Karai to Luke Skywalker.

Are they forgetting that Shredder outright has lied to her her entire life about being directly involved in her mother's murder? And it's not like Karai ever even had a maternal figure to fill that spot anyway. Sometimes I think some of you bitch just because you enjoy the sound of your own voices.

Umm, is this directed towards me as well? Cause I certainly never compared her to Luke...

If anything. I do agree with you about him lying to her about everything is a big, big reason why she would want nothing to do with him anymore. In fact, it wouldn't even matter if the two had happy father-daughter moments, since any of them would be immediately cheapened by the revelation.

[RedOnYellow]

Originally Posted by DarkLightDragon

Umm, is this directed towards me as well? Cause I certainly never compared her to Luke...

If anything. I do agree with you about him lying to her about everything is a big, big reason why she would want nothing to do with him anymore. In fact, it wouldn't even matter if the two had happy father-daughter moments, since any of them would be immediately cheapened by the revelation.

Not to mention how Shredder turned her into a weapon (BOTH MENTALLY AND PHYSICALLY) exclusively because he was so hyped up about the idea of using her against Splinter.

Karai has plenty of reasons to turn on Shredder after learning the truth. There really is little debate to be had here. I think the most it would come to would be Karai hesitating to do the finishing blow on him if it came down to it.

[Karai Samurai]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Here it sort of comes off as: Be a total evil bitch, sob over a mother she can't possibly have any memory of, turn good because Splinter might be her dad, get mutated because her not-dad had a stupid plan, run around as a monster, wait to see what happens. She seems more like a plot device for Shredder and Splinter to have character development, rather her having much character development herself.

Hey! I loved evil bitch Karai she was so bad ass. But you're right. I loved Karai season one and New Girl in Town was (and still is) my favorite s1 episode. But yup, since her mutation she's become a plot device. I know I sound like a broken record, but how hard is it to write a female character? I don't know why every female character on this show ultimately exists as a hollow shell to move the story along. That, and ass shots :/

[Powder]

Unfortunately, a lot of characters have been reduced to plot devices.

[Luckyday]

Well as much I agree with everybody when it comes to the problems of the show, but at least there is a plot currently going on.

Remember season 2 in which we had no idea where the story was going since the writers seem to drop the "find all mutagen canisters" plot line? The only thing that had consistent direction was the Karai character arc. That being said, we have a reason to tune in now. There is an actual plot line going on and idea of what will happen and yet there are still surprises along the way.

Whenever this story arc ends then maybe they can try another analogy like what they did at the North Hampton farm house, but only when the Return to New York arc has truely concluded. No cliff hanger. I can't go through that again.

Honestly they just need to be at least organized when it comes to their episodes, which is something I been noticing lately so I guess the sophomore slump is over. For all we know The Dark Raph arc might be awesome and very well pace.

But it's still just too early to call it a comeback.

[THGhost]

I kinda preferred the unpredictability of the "find all mutagen caninsters" plotline.

[IndigoErth]

You think [soon to be named] Rocksteady will have regained the vision in his right eye? Rewatched the episode and tried to see if the right looked normal after mutation but hard to tell, looked white, but not sure if there is a pupil or not.

[TigerClaw]

Just noticed my Tivo never recorded this episode, Was this another one of those episodes they posted online for free?

Update: Turns out my Tivo ran out of space and probably couldn't record the show, Fortunately its avialable in Xfinity VOD, So I will watch it tomorrow.