Star Wars Episode 8

[Shark_Blade]

I forgot Lando existed, he's such a forgettable character...

[CyberCubed]

I forgot Lando existed, he's such a forgettable character...

He literally plays a major role in Episode 5 and helps destroy the Death Star in Episode 6. Saying he's "forgettable" is borderline racist.

[newfan]

Shame they didn't ask him back, it would have been nice to see him with Han again before he died, actually it would have been nice to see Luke with Han again too.
Maybe they'll consider him for the 3rd Movie.

[Mayhem]

Sadly Billy Dee Williams is in a pretty bad way, I met him a couple of years ago and he is already showing early signs of either Parkinsons or dementia. Still a lovely chap to chat to, but definitely the ravages of time have hit his body hard already.

[newfan]

Sadly Billy Dee Williams is in a pretty bad way, I met him a couple of years ago and he is already showing early signs of either Parkinsons or dementia. Still a lovely chap to chat to, but definitely the ravages of time have hit his body hard already.

Awh that's sad to hear. Cool that you met him.

[The Deadman]

US theaters angered by Star Wars: The Last Jedi demands
https://www.flickeringmyth.com/2017/11/us-theaters-angered-by-star-wars-the-last-jedi-demands/

[Andrew NDB]

Sadly Billy Dee Williams is in a pretty bad way, I met him a couple of years ago and he is already showing early signs of either Parkinsons or dementia. Still a lovely chap to chat to, but definitely the ravages of time have hit his body hard already.

Awh that's sad to hear. Cool that you met him.

He was able to do this:

IAKcia7WwVA

Although I think something is going on/went on that we don't know about. I remember back before TFA, Billy Dee had to leave Dancing with the Stars early to film some stuff for it. But we know he's not in TFA.

[The Deadman]

Mark Hamill Clarifies Dark Side Luke in The Last Jedi
Read more at http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/901151-mark-hamill-clarifies-dark-side-luke-in-the-last-jedi#qakuqTmVVLrdWVvF.99

[Spike Spiegel]

Boyega's story arc looks cool.

TaFAyioYvk4

[Andrew NDB]

Mark Hamill Clarifies Dark Side Luke in The Last Jedi
Read more at http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/901151-mark-hamill-clarifies-dark-side-luke-in-the-last-jedi#qakuqTmVVLrdWVvF.99

There won't be any Dark Side Luke. We know from the leaked scuttlebutt that that's a mandate for the marketing only. i.e., making people think, "Oooohh... did Luke go eeeevil?"

No, he didn't. And Hamill is probably playing along to the company line with his "I was aghast when I read the take on Luke in this!"

[myconius]

i wonder if there was there a fan demand for this crybaby Emo-Luke that i've been seeing in the trailers?

[plastroncafe]

i wonder if there was there a fan demand for this crybaby Emo-Luke that i've been seeing in the trailers?

You mean...Luke.
He's always been a crybaby.

[ZariusTwo]

You mean...Luke.
He's always been a crybaby.

#powerconverters

[myconius]

You mean...Luke.
He's always been a crybaby.

this is true! :lol:

http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/nooooooo_luke_skywalker.gif


3eZBevXohCI

[TigerClaw]

The Last Jedi has been confirmed to have a 150 minute runtime, it is the longest Star Wars movie ever.
https://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_wars/star-wars-the-last-jedi-director-confirms-movie-runtime-a155458

A New Hope – 121 minutes
The Empire Strikes Back – 124 minutes
Return of the Jedi – 131 minutes
The Phantom Menace – 133 minutes
Attack of the Clones – 142 minutes
Revenge of the Sith – 140 minutes
The Force Awakens – 135 minutes
The Last Jedi - 150 minutes

[Utrommaniac]

Well...he IS Anakin's boy. The "dark side" thing might be dubious, but the apple doesn't fall far from the tree in other respects.

[CyberCubed]

I predict this will be the "Citizen Kane" of Star Wars movies.

[Andrew NDB]

This movie does have the power to completely redeem the last one for me. I am rooting for Johnson to nail it. If it does not, though, things will be past the point of no return.

[Vegita-San]

This movie does have the power to completely redeem the last one for me. I am rooting for Johnson to nail it. If it does not, though, things will be past the point of no return.

How I feel too.. especially with the head of lucas films anti male message.

[CyberCubed]

especially with the head of lucas films anti male message.

LOL, you've got to be trolling blatantly now.

[Spike Spiegel]

How I feel too.. especially with the head of lucas films anti male message.

If you think about it, Kathleen Kennedy probably experienced a lot of 70s and 80s era sexism to come up as far as she has in the male dominated film industry. She's likely seen more than her share of Weinsteins, Spaceys, and Ratners. Now that she's in a position of great power, she probably wants to shake things up in that regard, in terms of who gets to be in front of the camera as well as who's behind it.

I'd imagine that's at least part of the reason why the newer Star Wars films and projects(at least TFA/sequel trilogy and Rogue One) seem so female-focused.

I'm fine with more female characters, as long as they aren't boring Mary Sues. Maybe when they get through ramming the current stage of the franchise down our throats we'll get an Ahsoka Tano standalone flick about her years as a Grey Jedi. Clone Wars is still canon, and I know one of the characters in Rogue One also originated in the animated shows, so it seems possible.

[Vegita-San]

while that's entirely possible..

all indications are that she is just terrible and a chore to work with.

SPeilburg himself said she was terrible at her secretary job, but some how got promoted. either she slept around to get ahead, or she got promoted just so he wouldn't have to see her as much.

As for lucasfilm, I can't help but wonder if lucas 'chose' her to run the company, just so he could watch her flounder under her own ego. her films may make money NOW..but just wait until the general public gets even more tired of the same old formula than we are now. and see how fast the cookie crumbles.

that's my theory anyway.


I'm fine with more female characters, as long as they aren't boring Mary Sues. Maybe when they get through ramming the current stage of the franchise down our throats we'll get an Ahsoka Tano standalone flick about her years as a Grey Jedi. Clone Wars is still canon, and I know one of the characters in Rogue One also originated in the animated shows, so it seems possible.



the sad part is, we have to constantly repeat this, but those with an agenda won't believe it anyway. now I don't think 'Cool, another awesome woman character'..... Instead it's 'WHY is this being done?'

[CyberCubed]

the sad part is, we have to constantly repeat this, but those with an agenda won't believe it anyway. now I don't think 'Cool, another awesome woman character'..... Instead it's 'WHY is this being done?'

We literally have one lead female character, Rey, and the lead from Rogue one was a one-shot character killed off in the same movie.

Your whining about there being some anti-male crusade is absolutely idiotic. You sound to me like you can't handle major female characters. I'm not even a big fan of Rey (so far, the next movie can change that), but I don't see a problem.

[Utrommaniac]

An Ashoka movie would be pretty awesome. I'd even take a made-for-TV movie of high quality.

[plastroncafe]

I'm tickled by the idea of people into Star Wars who don't enjoy Mary Sue's, as if Anakin or Luke are anything other than Mary Sues.

That's like hating Mary Sue's but still liking Batman.

[Utrommaniac]

To put it this way...
Rey is no more of a Mary Sue than Luke is. Remember when he deflected energy bolts with his eyes covered in ANH, and how he Force-lifted his lightsaber in ESB even though nobody told him how?

[Spike Spiegel]

I'm tickled by the idea of people into Star Wars who don't enjoy Mary Sue's, as if Anakin or Luke are anything other than Mary Sues.

That's like hating Mary Sue's but still liking Batman.

But they aren't Mary Sues.

They're Gary Stus. :P

Luke and Anakin are still fairly boring too, in their own respective ways. Anakin less so, due to his overall arc. Obi-Wan (for the PT) and Han Solo (for the originals) are more fun to watch, IMHO. I guess I feel that way about Finn and Poe for the new trilogy.

[Utrommaniac]

I suppose in many respects, Anakin is probably a little higher on the "Stu-Sue" hierarchy because of the whole virgin birth thing.

But I did realize...what if Anakin's origins explain another reason why the Jedi Order are forbidden to pursue romantic relationships?
What if a Jedi and their Padawan visited Tatooine for reasons, and the Padawan broke protocol with a "wham bam yes ma'am" with Shmi Skywalker.
Which ended up resulting in a baby with a far higher frequency of force sensitivity than was considered "normal" because of his parentage?
And of course later, that would be passed on in Luke and Leia, but with more Force Sensitivity than even Anakin had. Which...would probably provide a better explanation for why Padme died in childbirth than "being broken hearted". Maybe giving birth to not one, but two, highly force-sensitive babies was too much for her to take physically, especially after Anakin nearly strangled her.

Granted, there are lots of Force Sensitive beings that would probably pass on their abilities without necessarily knowing they are, or just not being trained as Jedi.

It would probably him down a few notches on the Sue Meter, but that would only open up more questions than solving problems.


Yeah, I'm gonna say, that Han Solo movie is lookin' pretty good about now. It would be interesting to see what it changes from the Han Solo novel trilogy of the 90's. Especially with certain Clone Wars elements retconning some of their most important plotlines of those novels, even before the Expanded Universe purge.

[Andrew NDB]

Remember when he deflected energy bolts with his eyes covered in ANH, and how he Force-lifted his lightsaber in ESB even though nobody told him how?

He literally had people telling him what to do right there in both instances. Posthumously in one, but still.

[newfan]

Well, I'm ready to see Luke again (depending on what they do with him), even if he will likely be killed off as with all Jedi Masters, just wonder in which movie that will be.

[Andrew NDB]

Well, I'm ready to see Luke again (depending on what they do with him), even if he will likely be killed off as with all Jedi Masters, just wonder in which movie that will be.

I say 0 chance in 8. Decent chance in 9, bigger chance he carries over till at least 10. Moreso he lives to 10 now that Fisher died. Wouldn't foresee him in an 11.

What the hell is this?

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_wars/spoilers-check-out-this-new-finn-centric-tv-spot-for-star-wars-the-last-jedi-a155520

I hope this movie at least illustrates to us the stakes. Insomuch as the New Republic, the "Resistance," and the First Order... what and who and why is all of this, I have no idea, particularly after 7. The galactic politics seemed simple in any of the previous 6 movies, yet in 7 they seem so nebulous. The opening crawl of 7 seems to fly in the face of everything we see in everything after. It's weird this isn't important for any of TPTB to lay out. What are the stakes? Who are they fighting and why? Why is the New Republic against fighting the First Order despite the First Order clearly being all about their genocide to such a point that the New Republic needs a FAKE rebel alliance to fight their battles for them in secret? Especially after 7, when the First Order blew up a bunch of their planets?

[Vegita-San]

To put it this way...

maybe ben told him about it off screen?

even dragonball super has mary sues. the female Saiyans go SS2 right off the bat.

[sdp]

Rey is the biggest Mary Sue Star Wars has ever had, and that's saying a lot, with that said I still like Rey and I like her being the "main" Jedi, she was just written very poorly in TFA, but I blame that on TFA and not Rey. Unlike say Captain Phasma, her character wasn't damaged and treated like trash.

I do think Keneddy's Star Wars is pandering to the extreme left in many of their things and ironically enough the extreme left has attacked Kennedy for being sexist :lol: You can never please that crowd. I think Rogue One also having a female lead was more of a they didn't expect the main movie to do it so they did it here to be different and when they realized they didn't care to change it but there wasn't anything "planned" to have both movies with a female lead.

An yeah as much as I crap on Disney's Star Wars, I still want to be blown away by Episode VIII and change my stance on it. I don't want to be a bitter Disney SW hater like the prequel haters were the last decade. I hope VIII proves me wrong, TFA just disappointed me so much as has everything else that has come out that I'm not sure it'll happen but the possibility is there.

I love me some Star Wars.

[newfan]

I'm not saying that the prequels didn't matter to me but it matters more to me that they don't mess up the sequels, still, I take the parts of Star Wars I enjoy even if I end up not liking it all.

[plastroncafe]

There's more than one crowd that'll never be pleased.

[Vegita-San]

An yeah as much as I crap on Disney's Star Wars, I still want to be blown away by Episode VIII and change my stance on it. I don't want to be a bitter Disney SW hater like the prequel haters were the last decade. I hope VIII proves me wrong, TFA just disappointed me so much as has everything else that has come out that I'm not sure it'll happen but the possibility is there.

I love me some Star Wars.

yep. I don't like NOT wanting to see new star wars on opening day. but after all the bad Political PR, and the disappointing last two movies, I don't mind waiting a week or two to see this one depending on how reviews came out.

If past me went to the future and saw this reply, i wouldn't beleive I'd have said it.

[snake]

yep. I don't like NOT wanting to see new star wars on opening day. but after all the bad Political PR, and the disappointing last two movies, I don't mind waiting a week or two to see this one depending on how reviews came out.

If past me went to the future and saw this reply, i wouldn't beleive I'd have said it.

How the f*ck did you not like Rogue One? I can see not getting TFA, because I thought it was awful, but RO was everything I asked for.

[Metalwolf]

I liked RO, I didn't care for TFA because of how fast they upped Rey's powers and how easily she just learned everything, even to the point of beating a trained Dark Sider.

I think what it is that irks me so, is that they are seemingly afraid to give these new women protagonists much or any flaws or struggles for fear of making them appear 'weak' and 'vulnerable.' They come off as a little too perfect, often not being made to struggle or have setbacks in pursuit of their quest, and seem to even rise in power unnaturally fast (compared to the more often realistically paced progression for males) so they can be the ideal 'girl power' or 'strong woman,' and not be seen as having weakness or vulnerabilities.

Rey is no Luke or Anakin. She rose too fast, did not have any, if much struggles in gaining her power, and almost everything was showcased to illustrate how awesome she was. Thus is not how you write a good woman character, because it shows that you in fact have little confidence in this character to actually 'work,' so you artificially pump her up with inflated abilities and few flaws so you can get the audience to (hopefully) like her.

[Utrommaniac]

I personally wasn't too bothered by Rey's quickness to pick up on her skills so fast. Firstly because of narrative purpose, and then I just assumed it was because she was a fast learner.

From what I can tell, her greatest flaw is not wanting to make connections because of her abandonment issues. Like when she tried to ditch BB-8 as soon as she was sure she had rescued him. It's not that she can't do it. She actively chooses not to make friends with anyone, probably in the hope that she can start doing it after her family returns for her.

Granted, it's been a while since I've seen the movie, but I wasn't really bothered then. I was more worried about her being declared a Mary Sue because she could fly a ship pretty well.

[plastroncafe]

All this talk of Rey having too much power, and not once has anyone brought up Finn's ability to wield a lightsaber.

Or his ability to use the guns in the Escape ship... Or on the Falcon. We pretty much know he is mostly a janitor, whereas Rey is a mechanic.

Neither of these things bothered me, because let's not forget as a child Anakin Skywalker build C-3PO, and was the product of a virgin birth.

Everyone's mileage varies.

[NinjaPug]

The problems with Rey fall on JJ Abrams as a storyteller. All character motivations and arcs are based solely on plotting and getting the characters where they need to be to reach the endgame the audience expects. It's what he's always done and why all of his movies seem great during initial viewing but don't hold up after that.

[Sumac]

I wasn't bothered with Rei rise to power, but I felt that she was bland. She was generic protagonist, not particularly likable or having anything that was really memorable about her.
Finn had much more character than her.

It was surprise to me, because, before watching movie I was pretty sure that situation will be different and I will definitely like Rei and will feel lukewarm about Finn, but it actually ended completely vice-versa.

[sdp]

I watched the Star Trek JJ film like 3 times because I wanted to love it, it was my first taste of Star Trek, people praised it and called it the perfect reboot, while others called it "it feels more Star Wars than the prequels", so I bought the DVD blindly and forced myself to like but I just couldn't.

I still want to give Trek a try, but I feel overwhelmed by all the shows and me being a completist, I have to watch it all and there's just too much, even if I only go watch TOS and TNG. Maybe one day.

[Andrew NDB]

All this talk of Rey having too much power, and not once has anyone brought up Finn's ability to wield a lightsaber.

Anyone can press a button and swing around a lightsaber. And he basically ended up in a coma after that and I don't think there was a single scratch on Rey.

[plastroncafe]

Anyone can press a button and swing around a lightsaber. And he basically ended up in a coma after that and I don't think there was a single scratch on Rey.

It's not supposed to be that easy. The saber itself is partially force controlled, which is one of the reasons folks believe Kylo Ren's is all static at the edges. Because the guy's got no chill.
And there's absolutely no balance on the thing, because it's essentially just a grip.

For all we know Rey had some force training as a small child.

[Andrew NDB]

It's not supposed to be that easy. The saber itself is partially force controlled, which is one of the reasons folks believe Kylo Ren's is all static at the edges.

What? Lightsaber blades are Force-controlled, even partially? No, that's not a thing. That's never been a thing. And Kylo's blade is static at the edges because of the way he rigged it and the design he chose.

http://www.slashfilm.com/the-force-awakens-kylo-renn-lightsaber-finally-explained/

[DestronMirage22]

There've been multiple times where characters who can't use the force were able to wield a Lightsaber.
Mostly characters from the now non-canon EU, but then there's still General Grevious and Han Solo. Granted, the latter was just to cut open a Tauntaun, but still.
If they could use one, there's no reason why Finn can't. Although the level of skill he displayed while using it's still pretty questionable.

[plastroncafe]

What? Lightsaber blades are Force-controlled, even partially? No, that's not a thing. That's never been a thing. And Kylo's blade is static at the edges because of the way he rigged it and the design he chose.

http://www.slashfilm.com/the-force-awakens-kylo-renn-lightsaber-finally-explained/

This guy would disagree with you:
http://www.askajedi.com/2010/09/09/ask-a-jedi-can-non-force-users-can-wield-a-light-saber/
Dear Jedi,
Can a non-force user wield a light saber? If so, how come we don’t see more of them out there?
Dear Anonymous,
This is a complicated question, but in short, yes. Non-Force Users can indeed use a lightsaber.
Han Solo did it, but didn’t fight with it. In a non-canon story Boba Fett did however. In Episode III, the Clone Wars miniseries, and Star Wars: The Clone Wars General Grevious does too. In Star Wars: The Clone Wars season 2 Pre Viszla does it as well as one of the thieves who stole Ahsoka’s. In season 3 of the same show we know Cad Bane jumps on the bandwagon as well. Finally we have Anja Gallandro, who appeared in Star Wars: Young Jedi Knights in the novel Return to Ord Mantell by Kevin J Anderson and Rebecca Moestra.
So we have G, T, and C canon examples of it happening.
Now, how come we don’t see any more of them out there? Well, to be honest, they aren’t very good weapons unless you are Force Sensitive. You need to Force to block blaster bolts with them because that requires being able to predict where a shot that moves at that high of a velocity will land. You can’t really beat a Jedi with one unless you are Force Sensitive or otherwise enhanced.
Pre Viszla got more or less humiliated by Obi-wan Kenobi when he tried it.
General Grevious had to rely on cybernetic augmentation and we saw how that didn’t help much against Obiwan.
Boba Fett even lost the second Darth Vader decided to use the Force against him.
Anja Gallandro was only as effective as she was with her lightsaber because she was hopped up on drugs, even then it was shown how sloppy and unrefined she was compared to a Jedi.
The Thief that tried it was easily beaten by an old and physically infirm Jedi Master in one motion.
So, you end up basically with what a lightsaber is: a melee weapon that has as much of a chance of damaging you as it does damaging your enemy. Yes, it is cool, yes it can cut through just about everything, but it is still bringing a knife to a blaster fight unless you have the powers needed to make up for that weakness.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightsaber Says something similar.

[sdp]

Finn didn't beat a future sith lord who has trained for years in his first encounter and apparently was the cause of the destruction of the new Jedi order. When you have to justify that "maybe she was trained before off-screen, we don't know", you know you wrote a character badly. Again Rey is far from the problems TFA has, it's but a small nitpick.

If anything as an activist you should be mad Rey was only a Mary Sue and Captain Phasma treated like trash instead of revealing midriffs that the cast itself defended.

[Andrew NDB]

This guy would disagree with you:
http://www.askajedi.com/2010/09/09/ask-a-jedi-can-non-force-users-can-wield-a-light-saber/


That doesn't disagree with me at all. Of course you can't use a lightsaber well without the Force. Finn didn't use a lightsaber well and almost died.

[Vegita-San]

Anyone can press a button and swing around a lightsaber. And he basically ended up in a coma after that and I don't think there was a single scratch on Rey.

of course. can't damage the face! ;o)

would make her less of a hero with a single scratch in an intense battle and weaken her stance among the men and...:roll:

god, who thinks up that crap?

[CyberCubed]

of course. can't damage the face! ;o)

would make her less of a hero with a single scratch in an intense battle and weaken her stance among the men and...:roll:

god, who thinks up that crap?

Grow up already.

[plastroncafe]

If anything as an activist you should be mad Rey was only a Mary Sue and Captain Phasma treated like trash instead of revealing midriffs that the cast itself defended.

I should?
Did Feminist Pope make another decree that I missed?

As I've said else thread, I don't see Rey as any more/less of a Sue than any of the Dude Skywalkers.
I remember leaving TFA and having a friend say, I'm surprised you like this. Normally you balk at the whole, "Holistic Approach To Narrative" thing.
(ie: everyone just so happens to cross paths right when they need to, and the world is a closed environment.)
And my answer to that was, but it's baked into the story from the get go, so it doesn't bother me. I know to expect it. When coincidental things happen, it's because the Force is trying to assert balance.
"These are not the plot devices you're looking for."

We know she has a past, because they showed us a glimpse at her backstory, something we never got about Luke because unless I'm entirely mistaken, there was no way of knowing there was going to be a sequel. Where as this was known to be a trilogy from day one.

As for Phasma, yeah, she was Worf'd...but there's no way they weren't going to do something else with her down the line. Otherwise she'd have been like Daniel Craig and uncredited.

Again they knew from day one that there were going to be more movies, so she'll be back.

[Sumac]

And my answer to that was, but it's baked into the story from the get go, so it doesn't bother me.

Again they knew from day one that there were going to be more movies, so she'll be back.
So, because there will be more movies, in our initilal meeting with hero, story might be trash?
Good reasoning, all in the name of justifying badly written female character.

[Spike Spiegel]

I know Finn got his ass kicked in TFA, and his whole arc with the lightsaber was a bait-and-switch, but I hope we get to see him wield another one.

[plastroncafe]

I know Finn got his ass kicked in TFA, and his whole arc with the lightsaber was a bait-and-switch, but I hope we get to see him wield another one.

Same.
He's such a fun character, I'm looking forward to seeing more of him.

[Andrew NDB]

I'm pretty sure he wielded a lightsaber for the sole purpose of allowing misdirection in the promotional campaign and helping to build another damn Mystery Box for Abrams. He probably thought he was really clever.

Most signs point to Finn and Poe going full-gay in episode 8, so I wouldn't worry about him going anywhere anytime soon.

[plastroncafe]

I'm pretty sure he wielded a lightsaber for the sole purpose of allowing misdirection in the promotional campaign and helping to build another damn Mystery Box for Abrams. He probably thought he was really clever.

Most signs point to Finn and Poe going full-gay in episode 8, so I wouldn't worry about him going anywhere anytime soon.

This is exactly what I meant by seeing more of him.
:D

[TigerClaw]

EW has posted a featurette about those Crystal Foxes that we seen from the trailers, they are going to be animatronics along with some CGI ones.
http://ew.com/movies/2017/11/20/star-wars-the-last-jedi-crystal-foxes/

https://imagesvc.timeincapp.com/v3/mm/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fewedit.files.wordpress.com %2F2017%2F11%2F000269323hr.jpg&w=1100&q=85

They are called the Vulptex, a pack of them are called Vulptices

[ProphetofGanja]

Are they going to be important or something?

[TigerClaw]

Are they going to be important or something?
Possibly, since they are from Crait.

[Utrommaniac]

They almost look like something that could have come out of The Dark Crystal.

[TigerClaw]

They almost look like something that could have come out of The Dark Crystal.
Yet, they were model after Foxes as you can see from the featurette, I like how they are incorporating the looks of some real animals, to some of the Star Wars creatures.

[Andrew NDB]

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_wars/star-wars-the-last-jedi-sinister-new-shot-of-supreme-leader-snoke-as-andy-serkis-reveals-fresh-details-a155856

So Snoke is "definitely not a Sith." I guess so much for the Darth Plagueis thing?

[The Deadman]

STAR WARS: Daisy Ridley Confirms She Doesn't Want To Play Rey Beyond EPISODE IX
https://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_wars/star-wars-daisy-ridley-confirms-she-doesnt-want-to-play-rey-beyond-episode-ix-a155876

[CyberCubed]

She won't anyway. Until 20 years from now they repeat the same thing with a nostalgia call for the kids who grow up in this gen.

[Andrew NDB]

STAR WARS: Daisy Ridley Confirms She Doesn't Want To Play Rey Beyond EPISODE IX
https://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_wars/star-wars-daisy-ridley-confirms-she-doesnt-want-to-play-rey-beyond-episode-ix-a155876

Meaningless. If Disney decides they want her in X, 10-20 (more/less depending on whether or not she beats the Star Wars actor curse) million reasons to do it again will magically appear in front of her and it will become, overnight, "I really like the script! I have missed this world, I can't wait to return to it!"

Also...

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_wars/who-decided-on-reys-parentage-if-the-answer-is-underwhelming-heres-who-to-blame-a155894

... this story seems to suggest that Luke is her dad. If Ridley was told from day 1 who her dad was, some people who worked on 7 said it was Luke, Johnson claimed no one told him anything (???)... that kind of makes me think it's going to be Luke.

[Spike Spiegel]

Also...

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_wars/who-decided-on-reys-parentage-if-the-answer-is-underwhelming-heres-who-to-blame-a155894

... this story seems to suggest that Luke is her dad. If Ridley was told from day 1 who her dad was, some people who worked on 7 said it was Luke, Johnson claimed no one told him anything (???)... that kind of makes me think it's going to be Luke.

In the old EU, Luke had a son named Ben. Han and Leia had twins, a brother and sister who ended up dueling each other after the brother turned to the dark side.

Wouldn't be surprised if we got some variant of this.

[Andrew NDB]

In the old EU, Luke had a son named Ben. Han and Leia had twins, a brother and sister who ended up dueling each other after the brother turned to the dark side.

Wouldn't be surprised if we got some variant of this.

I hope not, but it already seems like Kylo is a fast-forwarded version of Jacen. Rey could be like Jaina, except it's Luke's kid. No Anakin II, no Ben.

I'd still bet the farm Rey will go evil in Episode 8, with Kylo being revealed as a deep cover agent/good guy. Like, he had to kill his dad to really make Snoke trust him or something.

[Vegita-San]

they claim they can't do stories that have already been done, but this whole new saga is just the EU with switched up elements.

Even using luke's self imposed exisle.

smh.

[sdp]

I'll definitely watch this movie at midnight, if I don't like it I think it might be my last SW movie I watch in theaters for a while.

[Spike Spiegel]

I'll definitely watch this movie at midnight, if I don't like it I think it might be my last SW movie I watch in theaters for a while.

Same, though I am feeling fairly optimistic about this one. I mainly just want to see Hamill as Luke again.

[Andrew NDB]

Same, though I am feeling fairly optimistic about this one. I mainly just want to see Hamill as Luke again.

I probably would have forgiven a ton of lame remakey stuff in 7 if we'd gotten at least a little bit of fresh, new Luke cool stuff.

[ProphetofGanja]

I probably would have forgiven a ton of lame remakey stuff in 7 if we'd gotten at least a little bit of fresh, new Luke cool stuff.

Yeah, same here. That cutaway at the end of 7 was so cheap, I was pretty annoyed

Episode VIII is gonna make-or-break this franchise for me

[sdp]

In a way this movie has to reveal what they implied we would learn from Ep. VII, like what the heck has been going on etc. That's what the trailers did to peak your curiosity and instead VII just kept the mystery and just remade Ep.IV.

They're kind of forced to finally reveal all the things that happened and what we wanted to know for TFA in this movie. Whether we like it or not is another question but yeah VIII should be what VII should've.

[Andrew NDB]

Again, we literally don't know what's going on. 7 told us nothing. Even in 4, we can pull from the opening drawl and the movie itself that there was an Old Republic that fell, now there's the Empire, and now there's a Rebel Alliance. In 1, we get the idea... Republic has been around forever, now there's a trade dispute with some lame Neimoidians and the rest fills itself out. In 7, wtf? There's a New Republic but... there's a Resistance within it? Against very far away Imperial remnants that should actually be the resistance, by all available logic? Who even owns Coruscant nowadays? Does no one care? Wtf is going on??? I have no idea whatsoever. I don't understand the stakes, the players, the field... ANYTHING. Nothing in 7 meant anything to me.

[Utrommaniac]

From what I can gather:

Coruscant had a massive civil war after the Empire was defeated, and had remained under the control of what remained of the Imperial forces until the Battle of Jakku.

Afterwards, it became part of the New Republic.

[Andrew NDB]

But if you've never read any stupid books, never seen anything at all but the movies... (which is actually what TPTB wanted, what they set this all up for) how the hell do you approach 7 with any kind of understanding?

Everything fed to us in 7 is, "The First Order is growing, way out there, even though they were beat down and back when they were called 'the Empire' and 6 happened 35 years ago and never heard from since." "There's a New Republic!" "There's a Resistance against the First Order! (why?)" But what the f*** does any of this mean, and why? What did those New Republic planets blowing up mean to the New Republic? Again, no sense of stakes or playing field or anything.

We literally receive 0 answers to any of these questions. I'm more surprised that people aren't equally as confused as me.

[Shark_Blade]

Daisy Ridley Says 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' Is Scary for Kids
https://www.google.com/amp/comicbook.com/starwars/amp/2017/12/06/star-wars-the-last-jedi-is-scary-says-daisy-ridley/

Pfft. Kids don't be a pussy, just watch this torture porn.

Mark was fine with it tho.
As Mark Hamill said himself, the Star Wars movies are for kids. But despite all of the toys, cute aliens, and family action scenes, some of the movies tend to explore some dark and scary areas.Oh they survived deaths in Bambi, Lion King, Up, Lord of the Flies and other nonsense, they'll get over it. What a wuss generation, "would someone please think of the children" my ass.

[CyberCubed]

Perhaps this movie has scarier/darker scenes than any Star Wars movie yet. If so, then I can see why.

[Krutch]

But if you've never read any stupid books, never seen anything at all but the movies... (which is actually what TPTB wanted, what they set this all up for) how the hell do you approach 7 with any kind of understanding?

Everything fed to us in 7 is, "The First Order is growing, way out there, even though they were beat down and back when they were called 'the Empire' and 6 happened 35 years ago and never heard from since." "There's a New Republic!" "There's a Resistance against the First Order! (why?)" But what the f*** does any of this mean, and why? What did those New Republic planets blowing up mean to the New Republic? Again, no sense of stakes or playing field or anything.

We literally receive 0 answers to any of these questions. I'm more surprised that people aren't equally as confused as me.
That was my absolute biggest issue with the TFA. I had no idea what the stakes were.

[newfan]

Same, though I am feeling fairly optimistic about this one. I mainly just want to see Hamill as Luke again.

Me too, hope they use him well. I was not impressed that Luke didn't make the last one.


I'd still bet the farm Rey will go evil in Episode 8.

I could be wrong but I don't think it likely that neither her or Luke will go dark, I suppose they would want to show strength on her part to break free of it, or bring Luke back if it was him.

Edit: I wonder how much we'll find out about who/what Snoke is in this, If he has been around for a while has he ever had any involvement with Palpatine

[ZariusTwo]

Edit: I wonder how much we'll find out about who/what Snoke is in this, If he has been around for a while has he ever had any involvement with Palpatine

Read a spoiler about Snoke just a few minutes ago. You get a lot of info about him, but very little concrete revelations.

[Andrew NDB]

Read a spoiler about Snoke just a few minutes ago. You get a lot of info about him, but very little concrete revelations.

Spill the beans.

[ZariusTwo]

Spill the beans.

Take with a grain of salt, we'll know something more concrete because there's no social media embargo we know of

Snoke has the memories and experiences of previous Sith generations, including Anakin and the Emperor, presumably this is what ties him to the prequels as he likely also is made up of the essences of Maul and Dooku

[newfan]

Take with a grain of salt, we'll know something more concrete because there's no social media embargo we know of

Snoke has the memories and experiences of previous Sith generations, including Anakin and the Emperor, presumably this is what ties him to the prequels as he likely also is made up of the essences of Maul and Dooku

Oh, so...
he kinda soaks up the essence when the die. Like a creature formed from them? Or the route of the dark force, tehy get their energy from him

[plastroncafe]

That was my absolute biggest issue with the TFA. I had no idea what the stakes were.

Have the stakes changed at all?
It's a universe perpetually trying to bring itself into balance and overshooting the mark.

[Andrew NDB]

Take with a grain of salt, we'll know something more concrete because there's no social media embargo we know of

Snoke has the memories and experiences of previous Sith generations, including Anakin and the Emperor, presumably this is what ties him to the prequels as he likely also is made up of the essences of Maul and Dooku

Huh. That sounds lame. How would he even do that?

[Vegita-San]

about as bad as making mind melds across galaxies possible.

read some of the plot leak for 8 and it sounds boring if true.
And if the stuff about luke is true, it's down right depressing. that's not the luke I wanted to see return.

[newfan]

about as bad as making mind melds across galaxies possible.

read some of the plot leak for 8 and it sounds boring if true.
And if the stuff about luke is true, it's down right depressing. that's not the luke I wanted to see return.

I haven't read any of that. Doesn't Hamill have a problem with Luke in this?

[Vegita-San]

I haven't read any of that. Doesn't Hamill have a problem with Luke in this?

yep, and ithe stuff I read is true, I can see why.

[Andrew NDB]

Where are you guys reading this stuff? Somebody point me in the right direction.

[Vegita-San]

I thought the link was here? I'll see if I can refind it, but someone posted a entire movie plot leak on reddit

this wasn't the post I found, but it starts off the same..

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/5nz9sq/plots_of_viii_and_ix_a_star_wars_leak_lengthy_but/

[Andrew NDB]

I thought the link was here? I'll see if I can refind it, but someone posted a entire movie plot leak on reddit

this wasn't the post I found, but it starts off the same..

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/5nz9sq/plots_of_viii_and_ix_a_star_wars_leak_lengthy_but/

If that's true, that doesn't sound too bad to me at all. It would address a lot of the problems of 7 while giving some moments I've always wanted to see. I'm kind of skeptical of its validity, though. I thought we know that 8 immediately picks up on the island with Luke and Rey? And that possible spoiler that ZariusTwo is talking about isn't mentioned there.

[Vegita-San]

cause I registered my R2 with lucasfilm, I got a free press invite to the last jedi. sadly, no one i know likes driving to the city it's in :/....including me.

[MikeandRaph87]

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/12/viii-days-out-star-wars-the-last-jedis-new-trailer-left-us-with-questions/

Rey with Ben's broken kyber crystal light saber?

[TigerClaw]

Watch the Red Carpet Premiere Right Now!

UVNIEszp2UQ

[sdp]

I can't believe a new Star Wars episode is coming out next week and I not only do I not have tickets yet but I don't feel compelled to get them yet.

[Vegita-San]

I can't believe a new Star Wars episode is coming out next week and I not only do I not have tickets yet but I don't feel compelled to get them yet.

same here. the effect SJW star wars has on a person.

Boy, Mark Hamil looks like he could care less and give two craps about it. he does NOT look happy at all.

[sdp]

it's not that which isn't doing it for me, I just don't feel the magic, hype or excitement and I don't know why, it's sad. I could always get super hyped for Star Wars and not get enough of it for months, I devoured so much SW media as Episode VII was about to come out and nothing, it's just too soon.

Hamill alone should get my hyped but it's just not working, I can understand not caring for any future trilogy but this one, this sequel trilogy is all I ever wanted and hoped would be announced one day.

Am I becoming an adult? I also lost any hype for any of the future DC movies and didn't even care to watch Justice League. Maybe as I'm getting older I just can't get like an overhyped nerd as easy as I used to when I have larger responsabilities?

Or did Disney just oversaturate with Star Wars stuff I wasn't interested in? I'm still super hyped for Jurassic World 2 so maybe I'm still a kid inside. Has Disney really done so much to keep my interest so low? I hated Episode III but that didn't stop my hype for any other SW projects Lucasfilm would announce.

I don't know, it's just depressing to not be able to get excited with Episode VIII on the horizon. I don't think what I've seen looks horrible either, I just feel "meh" about it.

I think I'm going to have to force myself to watch it and if it's a good movie it can help re-start my Star Wars hype. It'll be a sad day when I can't get excited over Star Wars, one of my favorite franchises.

[Vegita-San]

For me, they are just not bringing in the same level of fun and originality that they deliver to the marvel films.

EVERYTHING is a SAFE and BORING episode 4 call back. We've seen it all before. Nostalgia callbacks are nothing new now. Even the 80s Turtles crossing over with the 2012 turtles didn't give me the same thrill that watching Turtles Forever did. It's just..we've seen it all before.

Un PC comment of the night.
Boy...Andi looks soo much cuter without the odd piercings and purple hair.

[CyberCubed]

Whine whine whine.

Episode 8 doesn't look "safe" at all, it's nowhere going to be similar to an old movie like Episode 7 was. For the record I haven't read any spoilers, just going off trailers and the stuff revealed so far. At least wait till you see the movie first.

[sdp]

I don't think it's that at all for me, I still got hyped for Rogue One even though I never liked anything about that movie.

But I'm not even remotely hyped for this one, I also don't think it'll be a retread, it has to do something new or at least answer the questions that Ep.VII never did. I just don't care, maybe having a new movie every year does kill the enthusiasm of anything.

[Andrew NDB]

Whine whine whine.

Episode 8 doesn't look "safe" at all, it's nowhere going to be similar to an old movie like Episode 7 was. For the record I haven't read any spoilers, just going off trailers and the stuff revealed so far. At least wait till you see the movie first.

Actually going off of the trailers alone... 8 seems exactly like a 5 retread. Just about every shot you see in them reminds me of something from 5.

[MikeandRaph87]

For the record, killing off Han Solo making Ben/Kylo take the step that Vader did not was not playing safe. I know that Guiness wanted out of the movie so the force ghost was created and Harrison thought Han's usefulness had reached its end,but Han Solo was killed off, that was gutsy and hard to watch as obvious as it was. Safe in some ways, sure, but not in others.

[Sumac]

For the record, killing off Han Solo making Ben/Kylo take the step that Vader did not was not playing safe. I know that Guiness wanted out of the movie so the force ghost was created and Harrison thought Han's usefulness had reached its end,but Han Solo was killed off, that was gutsy and hard to watch as obvious as it was. Safe in some ways, sure, but not in others.
It didn't felt deserved.

Kylo Ren was not interesting or charismatic and the whole thing was just token "killing old character" for the sake of drama.
IMO.

[MikeandRaph87]

It didn't felt deserved.

Kylo Ren was not interesting or charismatic and the whole thing was just token "killing old character" for the sake of drama.
IMO.
Reading that makes me think of Independence Day 2. The biggest violator and attempt to shift focus onto the new ones.

That very act I felt took away any chance of Kylo being widely popular, but instead greatly despised.

[Sumac]

That very act I felt took away any chance of Kylo being widely popular, but instead greatly despised.
I didn't despised him for this, I felt more like "meh".

My problem with new characters, that neither Rey nor Ren were interesting to me. The "old guard" was fine, Finn was fine, better than I have expected, but the main protagonist and, supposedly, main antagonist just felt very flat to me. And that alone kind of made me feel, not particularly interested in whatever had happened in the story.

Besides, my greatest fear is that they try to somehow pull out some ridiculous redemption for Ren in the last episode. Though of course, if they will be able to make him interesting in SW8, then, they can probably do it just fine, if not - who cares? I certainly won't. :ohwell:

[Vegita-San]

Actually going off of the trailers alone... 8 seems exactly like a 5 retread. Just about every shot you see in them reminds me of something from 5.

'that's our cubed!'

there's even a cave! but, i'm just whining..smh.

If the music is the music we are getting in the new movie (played during the red carpet last night) notice they even redid a cue from han getting frozen.

yeah, that's HIGHLY original!

[Andrew NDB]

'that's our cubed!'

F***. He got me again, didn't he?

[Andrew NDB]

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_wars/star-wars-the-last-jedi-the-first-reactions-are-in-and-it-sounds-like-luke-skywalker-steals-the-show-a156227

Good reactions. "Luke steals the show."

And jesus... if you want a really big spoiler, I can confirm:

Yes, Luke does die in this. I doubted many who said this would happen, but it does.

[newfan]

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_wars/star-wars-the-last-jedi-the-first-reactions-are-in-and-it-sounds-like-luke-skywalker-steals-the-show-a156227

Good reactions. "Luke steals the show."

And jesus... if you want a really big spoiler, I can confirm:

Yes, Luke does die in this. I doubted many who said this would happen, but it does.

awhhhhh 😣 well thanks for warning me.

[Andrew NDB]

More, if anyone absolutely, positively must know:

* Kylo kills Snoke.
* Kylo is bad guy and remains dark at end.
* Rey is the Last Jedi at the end and does not turn Dark.
* Leia lives.
* Luke dies at end. Pulls an Obi-Wan.
* Yoda convinces Luke to train Rey.
* "The Resistance" is in disarray at the end.
* There's a ton of humor.
* Rey’s lightsaber is destroyed
* Rey’s parents are junk dealers and left her. She's just a random person strong in the Force.
* Phasma dies.
* Luke fights Kylo in a scene where his life force is drained.

[newfan]

What do you think of that? (Andrew)

I thought Snoke would last until the next one....and have a strong depth to his character. I suppose they want Ren to be the supreme bad guy.
I thought there would be more to Rey (as I'm sure a lot of people did)...
and... Luke should really have had his day in this one and died in the next, seen as they already killed Han. What's left for the next one? :lol: Rey vs very evil Ren and a ghost Luke?

[Andrew NDB]

What do you think of that? (Andrew)

I thought Snoke would last until the next one....and have a strong depth to his character. I suppose they want Ren to be the supreme bad guy.
I thought there would be more to Rey (as I'm sure a lot of people did)...
and... Luke should really have had his day in this one and died in the next, seen as they already killed Han. What's left for the next one? :lol: Rey vs very evil Ren and a ghost Luke?

I haven't seen it myself yet, so I'm not sure how it will all register.
But... definitely I wanted Snoke to be Plagueis (maybe he is/was? though he doesn't even seem to be important to things going forward), Rey to be bad at the end, Kylo to be good. Maybe they'll flip things in 9. It's weird in that it seems to completely wipe the slate clean to what 9 will be.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah it's hard to tell without seeing everything else. Maybe you'll get your side switch in the next one, they have to save something for it :) True btw, about the clean slate, also with Carrie there will be no Leia either and she was originally going to have a strong story in that one (or so I heard).

Yeah. Abrams basically gets to do whatever he wants in 9. And

I would bet the farm, as I've always said since Fisher died,
Leia "dies" in the opening crawl of 9. Doing anything else would seem weird. People expecting them to change 8 to have Leia die on-screen the same year her actress did are insane.

[newfan]

I haven't seen it myself yet, so I'm not sure how it will all register.
But... definitely I wanted Snoke to be Plagueis (maybe he is/was? though he doesn't even seem to be important to things going forward), Rey to be bad at the end, Kylo to be good. Maybe they'll flip things in 9. It's weird in that it seems to completely wipe the slate clean to what 9 will be.

Yeah it's hard to tell without seeing everything. You may yet get the switching sides, have to save something for the next movie :) True about the clean slate, with Carrie there will be no Leia either and I read that she was going to have a big storyline in it (if that was true).

Edit: Okay you'd seen and responded before I deleted and re-posted in a spolier. Sorry for the repeat.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah it's hard to tell without seeing everything. You may yet get the switching sides, have to save something for the next movie :) True about the clean slate, with Carrie there will be no Leia either and I read that she was going to have a big storyline in it (if that was true).

Kathleen Kennedy openly talked about that to the press so I wouldn't doubt it was true.

[Vegita-San]

I feel like I am going to hate this movie.

I bet you they even played the cue that this big moment happens in from last night. when I Heard it, I Thought.. oh, they wouldn't do THAT, would they? I don't want the man hater to ruin all the good characters of this franchise!

[Vegita-San]

F***. He got me again, didn't he?

he gets everyone. apparently cause he's always right. who knew?



Latest tv trailers are actually more spoilery than the spoilers.

[Metalwolf]

More, if anyone absolutely, positively must know:

* Kylo kills Snoke.
* Kylo is bad guy and remains dark at end.
* Rey is the Last Jedi at the end and does not turn Dark.
* Leia lives.
* Luke dies at end. Pulls an Obi-Wan.
* Yoda convinces Luke to train Rey.
* "The Resistance" is in disarray at the end.
* There's a ton of humor.
* Rey’s lightsaber is destroyed
* Rey’s parents are junk dealers and left her. She's just a random person strong in the Force.
* Phasma dies.
* Luke fights Kylo in a scene where his life force is drained. Hmm... Interesting. :ttwisted:

I'm glad Rey's a random rather then a SkySolo or Kenobi strong in the Force, I was afraid we'd end up with a lame dynasty like they kept overusing in the books.

[sdp]

Welp, time to avoid the thread

[Andrew NDB]

http://www.comingsoon.net/assets/uploads/2017/08/rose-n-finn.jpg

A lot of people coming out of that screening suggesting...

That while it's not outright said, it's strongly implied that new character Rose Tico is the daughter of Luke Skywalker.

[Vegita-San]

Spoiler.. FINN SURVIVES!


Crud. I just ruined 2 people's viewing of the movie.

[Shark_Blade]

I love that Star Wars now represents so many different races. Diversity & gender inclusion is the way of the future. :tlove:

[Vegita-San]

I love that Star Wars now represents so many different races. Diversity & gender inclusion is the way of the future. :tlove:

hey Andrew, get the plant meter out. screams brainwashing here ;o)...

[Andrew NDB]

I love that Star Wars now represents so many different races.

What are you talking about? There's about 1,000 different races seen in the original 6 movies.

hey Andrew, get the plant meter out. screams brainwashing here ;o)...

He might be being sarcastic.

[Vegita-San]

He might be being sarcastic.

I dunno.. All I know is IIII was being sarcastic :).


other people tend to turn SJW at a scary switch flip these days.:o

[Spike Spiegel]

I love that Star Wars now represents so many different races. Diversity & gender inclusion is the way of the future. :tlove:

As a black man, this offends me. /s

Honestly though, this compulsion people have to pat franchises on the back for just tossing in a non white male character every now and then is baffling to me. The story and narratives are more important IMHO. You can have s*itty, mediocre characters of any race or gender.

u-5KSdpfWcI

[Vegita-San]

Virtue Signaling. they have to desperately show they are better than everyone else by saying 'Look what we're doing! We don't care if the work is good or bad, but look what WE are doing!'

take the new super girl show for example. an entire episode was apparently devoted to homophobia. In a FRIGGEN SUPER HERO series. sigh.

Although now you are confusing poor shark blade. they might have thought you'd praise them for saying what they said ;o).


----just saw the video. Avery Brooks is Brilliant.

[Andrew NDB]

----just saw the video. Avery Brooks is Brilliant.

He's also batshit crazy. Has anyone ever seen him in Shatner's "The Captains"? He's got some kind of dementia... it's actually uncomfortable to watch.

[Vegita-San]

there are times i think that...and then there are times i wonder if that is just his way of talking.

[Spike Spiegel]

Even a busted clock is still right twice a day :lol:

I saw that bit from "The Captains" a few years ago. I always just assumed he was really high that day.

[Andrew NDB]

This is pretty angering. This is what I asked the guy who's seen it and this is what he said (not really any spoilers here, just stuff about the political landscape of the new trilogy):

Do we get a better understanding of the New Republic, the Resistance, and the First Order? Meaning, the whole lay of the land? I mean, if the whole thing in 7 was that the New Republic were pacifists so the "Resistance" was their way of plausibly deniably fighting the First Order... why would there still be a "Resistance" after the First Order blew up those bunch of worlds in 7? Why wouldn't the New Republic full-on declare war at this point and the "Resistance" stop being a "Resistance"? Is any of this touched on or clarified?

Not really. It’s a Chase movie. First Order chases the "Resistance" the whole time.

[Spike Spiegel]

I...might Redbox this one.

Especially if the rumors about Luke's death are true, among other things. It seems like there's no real plan here. Just throw sh*t at the wall and see if it will stick.

I don't feel angry, just ambivalent. If you told me five years ago that I would be feeling "meh" about the second/"dark" chapter in a new Star Wars trilogy, I wouldn't have believed it...

[Andrew NDB]

I...might Redbox this one.

Especially if the rumors about Luke's death are true, among other things. It seems like there's no real plan here. Just throw sh*t at the wall and see if it will stick.

I don't feel angry, just ambivalent. If you told me five years ago that I would be feeling "meh" about the second/"dark" chapter in a new Star Wars trilogy, I wouldn't have believed it...

Luke definitely dies. It's 100% true. The more I read about it, too, the lamer it sounds... basically, the whole movie he never leaves Ach'to. He creates a Force Projection version of himself that fights Kylo on another world, giving Rey time to escape... then Luke is too worn out from that and dies like Yoda.

[Vegita-San]

that's exactly what it feels like, which is why the dramatic attempts like killing han kind of feel flat.

'lets throw a bunch of nostalgia, attempt 'dark and dramatic, cause that is the thing these days' and people will automatically love it.

I'm seeing this thing next monday. We'll see.

[newfan]

I was going to ask how he died. Wasn't Yoda 900 years old? ...and even he lived till Jedi.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

So. Does this basically mean that Last Jedi is indeed the revamped Empire Strikes Back? Or is it worse than that?

And why would anybody be surprised that a certain someone doesn't last to the sequel? Always seemed pretty obvious to me.

[Andrew NDB]

So. Does this basically mean that Last Jedi is indeed the revamped Empire Strikes Back? Or is it worse than that?

I don't think we'll have a fair analysis of that until a month or so from now when people chill on the "ZOMG!!! BEST MOVIE OF ALL TIME!!!" kind of stuff. Hell, I may even go in and see it this weekend and be more forgiving than I'd be objectively immediately thereafter.

And why would anybody be surprised that a certain someone doesn't last to the sequel? Always seemed pretty obvious to me.

Well, I thought that the idea was to really push these new characters, while utilizing Luke to make a daisy chain at least into 9 of old into new, possibly even into 10 (reasons being simple: Han was now dead and even before Fisher passed, it was clear her subsequent portrayals of her wouldn't be substantial so neither of those characters could fill that role). Clearly I was wrong.

[Spike Spiegel]

I am not an RLM fanboy by any means, but I thought this was funny.

2lCW-iaOZ_M

[CyberCubed]

IGN gave it a 9.7, and said it's the best movie since Empire Strikes Back:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/12/12/star-wars-the-last-jedi-review?read

Looks like this is the best Star Wars movie since the original trilogy, which admittedly isn't that hard to be.

[ZariusTwo]

Jeremy Jahns could'nt settle on a rating for the movie in his review, he'll have something more concrete for his spoiler video

B4WBB8gAwTE

[Spike Spiegel]

IGN gave it a 9.7, and said it's the best movie since Empire Strikes Back:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/12/12/star-wars-the-last-jedi-review?read

Looks like this is the best Star Wars movie since the original trilogy, which admittedly isn't that hard to be.

10 Reasons ‘Star Wars: The Force Awakens’ Is the Best ‘Star Wars’ Film Ever Made (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/10-reasons-star-wars-the-force-awakens-_b_8895598.html)

‘Rogue One’ Kicks Ass: The Best ‘Star Wars’ Movie Since ‘The Empire Strikes Back’ (https://www.thedailybeast.com/rogue-one-kicks-ass-the-best-star-wars-movie-since-the-empire-strikes-back)

[Vegita-San]

10 Reasons ‘Star Wars: The Force Awakens’ Is the Best ‘Star Wars’ Film Ever Made (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/10-reasons-star-wars-the-force-awakens-_b_8895598.html)

‘Rogue One’ Kicks Ass: The Best ‘Star Wars’ Movie Since ‘The Empire Strikes Back’ (https://www.thedailybeast.com/rogue-one-kicks-ass-the-best-star-wars-movie-since-the-empire-strikes-back)

trying to explain things to cubed is an exercise in idiocy :)

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

10 Reasons ‘Star Wars: The Force Awakens’ Is the Best ‘Star Wars’ Film Ever Made (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/10-reasons-star-wars-the-force-awakens-_b_8895598.html)

‘Rogue One’ Kicks Ass: The Best ‘Star Wars’ Movie Since ‘The Empire Strikes Back’ (https://www.thedailybeast.com/rogue-one-kicks-ass-the-best-star-wars-movie-since-the-empire-strikes-back)

I was thinking the exact same thing.

[Spike Spiegel]

This guy from CNN didn't think it was so hot.

'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' falls short of sky-high hopes (http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/12/entertainment/star-wars-the-last-jedi-review/index.html)

In crass commercial terms, no clairvoyance is necessary to predict that "The Last Jedi" will be a huge hit, blunting any criticism. Yet if "The Empire Strikes Back" stands as the defining chapter in the "Star Wars" saga, as second movies go, "Last Jedi" ranks closer to the "Attack of the Clones" end of the gene pool.

[CyberCubed]

trying to explain things to cubed is an exercise in idiocy :)

Are you literally trolling right now? You almost sound like you're bothered that people actually like the movie instead of whining non-stop like you are despite not even seeing it yet?

Of course some reviews for the older movies were inflated due to them being the first new Disney-era Star Wars movies, but this movie doesn't have the "first new movie" appeal and it's getting rave reviews across the board. As of right now it's 93% on rotten, and I'm reading the "negative" reviews and most of them sound like nitpicking. And even then a lot of the negative reviews still gave it a 3 out of 5, so they didn't hate the movie either but found it average.

[Andrew NDB]

I was thinking the exact same thing.

Yeah, there's no point in any kind of real "How does Last Jedi rate next to all of the other SW movies???" discussion until a good few weeks/months from now.

[Vegita-San]

especially after all the BCD plants are out of the way gushing over it and calling all other opinions stupid. (inside other forum joke)...

[CyberCubed]

There's no "plants" on this forum for Star Wars, when everyone in this thread has been here for years. :roll:

[Andrew NDB]

especially after all the BCD plants are out of the way gushing over it and calling all other opinions stupid. (inside other forum joke)...

Something like "Star Wars" movies doesn't even need plants. The people pre-funk and dope themselves up on nostalgia and "ZOMG, Star Wars!!!" going into it and leaving the theater, plants don't even need to stir the pot.

[Vegita-San]

Something like "Star Wars" movies doesn't even need plants. The people pre-funk and dope themselves up on nostalgia and "ZOMG, Star Wars!!!" going into it and leaving the theater, plants don't even need to stir the pot.

tell that to one jerk on the other forum who owns disney stock. you'd think he was king of the world ;o).

A slightly more snarky but just as insulting cube if you have an opinion he doesn't like :).

[RaphaelinSTL]

I am not an RLM fanboy by any means, but I thought this was funny.

2lCW-iaOZ_M

God damn I love RLM.

s-abGTw2sSk

[Andrew NDB]

I would expect these things will irritate me in "Last Jedi":

1. Nothing is revealed about what the Resistance is, why they're still a "Resistance" even after The First Order blew up a bunch of New Republic worlds. We learn nothing new about the playing field or the stakes.
2. It sounds like nothing is revealed about Snoke. Who he is, how long he's been around, his real motives, nothing. And then he is killed.
3. The FAKE Luke Skywalker fight via his Force Projection.
4. Luke Skywalker never leaves that dumb Ach'to world.
5. Leia's Superman Force-flight through space.

[CyberCubed]

Interesting review snippet:


Nothing can prepare you for what Star Wars: The Last Jedi delivers and that's exactly what makes it so damn near perfect.

Sounds like everything is coming up daisies. Sounds like it's going to be the "Dark Knight Rises" of Star Wars movies. I haven't read spoilers but I can sort of guess what to expect, and even then it sounds intriguing.

Looks like it is sort of like Empire Strikes Back, and that's in good way.

[Spike Spiegel]

Sounds like everything is coming up daisies. Sounds like it's going to be the "Dark Knight Rises" of Star Wars movies.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ImperturbableFrailHornet-size_restricted.gif

[CyberCubed]

:lol:

It's also said this is Mark Hammil's best performance as Luke. I can believe it.

[ZariusTwo]

Sounds like it's going to be the "Dark Knight Rises" of Star Wars movies.

That's a good thing?

[CyberCubed]

For a Star Wars movie, that's as good as we can get...for now. I'm hesitant to call it the "Dark Knight Returns" of Star Wars movies until I see it myself and see what it's like instead of using reviews.

Sounds like it might be a bloated movie, but at over 2 and a half hours hopefully they can cover everything properly. Again I haven't read many spoilers, but I kinda also more or less can guess how things will go down based on review hints.

[Shark_Blade]

Welp just seen it. I'm surprised that I love it very much. :tlove:

I don't get something though...
Kylo struck Luke's hologram and he died? What?

And I think this has something similar with Obi Wan's death by Vader. Letting people kill a Jedi will make them stronger than ever before? What even. Hmm..

Anyway, it's gonna be odd for Episode 9 with all the leads dead now. Yeah Leia survived but she's dead in real life. Unless they wanna do the CGI like in Rogue One again which I doubt it.

Anyway, 9/10. I should rank the films soon.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah, Episode 9 can only

really feature Luke as a Force ghost. No Han, no Leia (unless they recast or do CGI buggery... neither one I would wager they'd do at this point), and why even bring in Lando now anyway. With not even Snoke left, I'm not sure what there's left to be excited to see in 9 other than "maybe the new characters will actually be worth watching this time."

[Andrew NDB]

George Lucas likes it. I think.

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_wars/george-lucas-shares-his-thoughts-on-rian-johnsons-star-wars-the-last-jedi-a156313

[ZariusTwo]

George Lucas likes it. I think.

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_wars/george-lucas-shares-his-thoughts-on-rian-johnsons-star-wars-the-last-jedi-a156313

George likes it in the way Stan Lee likes everything.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

George Lucas likes it. I think.

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_wars/george-lucas-shares-his-thoughts-on-rian-johnsons-star-wars-the-last-jedi-a156313

"Beautifully made" might refer to nothing more than the visuals and aesthetics. That's how I read that phrase.

Story and character, though? Those are the important things.

[Andrew NDB]

"Beautifully made" might refer to nothing more than the visuals and aesthetics. That's how I read that phrase.

That's what I was thinking. Though he didn't even say that about "The Force Awakens."

Story and character, though? Those are the important things.

Yeah, I mean, it wouldn't be unfair at all to say "Star Trek Into Darkness" is a "beautifully made movie." It's still dogsh**, of course.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

That's what I was thinking. Though he didn't even say that about "The Force Awakens."



Yeah, I mean, it wouldn't be unfair at all to say "Star Trek Into Darkness" is a "beautifully made movie." It's still dogsh**, of course.

Absolutely. If there's anything (the ONLY thing, I'd argue) the new Abrams Trek and Wars have done well, it's casting and visuals.

[sdp]

I have my tickets for tonight but not even sure if I'll make it haha hope I do.

Didn't rewatch any of the old movies or even VII oh well. Let's see how it goes. Haven't read any spoilers.

[Andrew NDB]

I have my tickets for tonight but not even sure if I'll make it haha hope I do.

Didn't rewatch any of the old movies or even VII oh well. Let's see how it goes. Haven't read any spoilers.

I kind of want to rewatch 7 but... not really.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I kind of want to rewatch 7 but... not really.

Rewatch "A New Hope" and just mentally substitute new characters for old. :twink:

[CyberCubed]

I haven't rewatched any old movies recently, but overall:

- The original trilogy I've probably watched around 30 times since I first saw them around the early 90's till now.

- Episode 1 I watched at least 5 times.

- Episode 2 I think I've only watched twice. First time in theaters and then gave it a second chance at home...still worst Star Wars movie.

- Episode 3 I've watched around 5 times.

- Episode 7 so far I only watched once in theaters. Maybe this is why I don't dislike the movie like some others because my only experience of it was the first time in theaters. I do want to see it again though.

- Rogue One I've seen once so far.

[Andrew NDB]

I don't reckon I will ever rewatch Rogue One.

[newfan]

I can't count how many times I've watched the originals

1, once at the theater, once after.... maybe twice, not sure.
2, once at the theater
3, once at the theater and caught it on TV after sometime.

7, once at the theater, twice (once properly through) afterwards.

Rouge one... shamefully not seen yet....call myself a fan too!

[Shark_Blade]

Now my mini review.



There are many twists that I didn't expect.

- Every scene of General Leia is such a gem. Even with her just gazing far away carries such weight. Pure legend.

- It's nice to see more interaction between Poe and General Leia. They have this mother-son relationship going on which is great to see.

- Kylo is such a big baby throwing fits and breaking everything like in the last movie. He's so annoyingly obnoxious like that adult Anakin from Ep. 2-3 I can't take him seriously. A good smack to both of their heads would do them good.

- It's weird that when Snooke insulted Kylo, Kylo raised to attack him but he just zapped him and ignored him. Wtf? If I was Snooke I would've killed the treasonous snake and not keeping him at all. In the end the dumbass got killed by Kylo so eh, the idiotic "dark leader" got what's coming for his own foolishness.

- That shirtless Kylo scene is like acid to my eyes. I understand Rey's pain. x_X

- When Kylo brought Rey to Snooke, that's a great parallel to Return of the Jedi moment with Sidious.

- I thought Rose was gonna be like some side character they shove in the last minute. I'm glad I was wrong! She was put up front and center, complete with a tragic backstory of how she lost her sister in a war. She joined a secret resistance mission with Finn to get a code breaker. She value the mission more than her own valuables (willing to sacrifice the locket of her dead sister). She's the one keeping Finn in check like in the casino planet, heck she's the one at the helm riding that weird horse like creatures and drove the flock to cause havoc!

- I legit thought Finn was gonna die kamikaze style, but then Rose saved him! Wtf wow!

- That Rose x Finn kiss!!!! I didn't see it coming. But she's been so fearless, heck even in love she gotta be so bold. I was expecting a Finn x Poe or Finn x Rey relationship so this is so unexpected. Finn kinda return the gesture at the end, taking care of Rose. :tlove:

- Leia using her Jedi power to soar momentarily across outerspace. Yaas Queen!! Finally we get to see her using the Force.

- when we found out Luke was actually a hologram, the whole theater erupt with applause. I wasn't as shocked but pleasantly surprised. It's still sad that he died though...I still don't get why he and Obi Wan let the enemy struck them so they can "become stronger than you can ever imagine". So they can become one with the Force? Hogwash aside, it's still pretty epic.

- That General Leia replacement woman (forgot her name). I thought she's gonna be an asshole cowardly piece of **** but wow she shows the struggle of being a leader, facing difficult subordinate like Poe. In the end she sacrificed herself by jumping at light speed with the mothership. Mad respect. Her last words with Leia was priceless, kinda like an allegory with the reality of her recent passing. I dunno.

Only negative I have are those slightly annoying bird creatures. The theater people seems to enjoy them but I'm just ._.


I maintain my score of 9/10 for this film.

So yeah it's vastly superior to Force Awakens. Rank wise:

1. The Phantom Menace (9.8/10)
2. A New Hope (9.5/10)
3. The Last Jedi (9/10)
4. The Force Awakens (8/10)
5. Return of the Jedi (7/10)
6. The Empire Strikes Back (6/10)
7. Revenge of the Sith (3/10)
8. Attack of the Clones (2/10)

[TigerClaw]

I'm gonna see it on Saturday.

[Shark_Blade]

I'm gonna see it on Saturday.

Have fun. I plan to see it again too.

Eventhough anyone can watch films on Bluray/DVD repeatedly, it could never replicate the feeling and enthusiasm of the cinema crowd. The way they gasped, cheered or sobbing at scenes, truly priceless. :tlove: It's like we all are living the moment together. Plus the big screen looks marvellous too.

[Mayhem]

Back from seeing it... well, there's plenty to digest and dissect there... called a couple of things as well as the plot unravelled itself, twisting and turning like a twisty turny thing. Probably going to take a while to contemplate, and going to see it again on Saturday...!

I would expect these things will irritate me in "Last Jedi":

1. Nothing is revealed about what the Resistance is, why they're still a "Resistance" even after The First Order blew up a bunch of New Republic worlds. We learn nothing new about the playing field or the stakes.
2. It sounds like nothing is revealed about Snoke. Who he is, how long he's been around, his real motives, nothing. And then he is killed.
3. The FAKE Luke Skywalker fight via his Force Projection.
4. Luke Skywalker never leaves that dumb Ach'to world.
5. Leia's Superman Force-flight through space.
1. Considering The Last Jedi starts immediately after The Force Awakens ends pretty much, then there hasn't been a lot of time passing for the playing field changes to be recognised across the galaxy. After what happened with Order 66 and the Clone Wars, I'm willing to bet that a lot of places just don't want to get involved. Hence perhaps when the distress call went out, lots of places were deemed to have received it, but no one responded.

2. Yeah, that's annoying. Maybe they filmed it, maybe they didn't. Maybe following all the speculation and internet theories, they decided to stick two fingers up and NOT go into it, biggest mind **** ever to the Star Wars fan boys :lol: or maybe we will find out in the next film? Certainly have no real idea WHERE the next film is going to go... bar one aspect you can probably guess.

3. Guessed that due to lightsaber colour and Just For Men applied :P

[Andrew NDB]

Mark Hamill is wishing Disney had used George Lucas' outline for 7-9:

https://www.cinemablend.com/news/1739400/mark-hamill-wishes-george-lucas-had-been-more-involved-with-the-new-star-wars-movies?utm_campaign=cb-fbk-m-us-30ad0d8f&utm_content=1526&utm_source=fbk&utm_term=cb-fbk-m-us-30ad0d8f.t1zxpns5

[CyberCubed]

Well we already had the expanded universe comics/novels with entirely different futures for Luke, Han, Leia, their kids, and the franchise in general. Star Wars now has a "pick your own canon" mentality to it.

[Andrew NDB]

Well we already had the expanded universe comics/novels with entirely different futures for Luke, Han, Leia, their kids, and the franchise in general. Star Wars now has a "pick your own canon" mentality to it.

Sort of. It's a pick your own canon... unless it's the "Legends" stuff. Then it's a FAKE canon now.

[sdp]

Well just got back from seeing it and I'm sad to say that it sucked, are the reviews shill or just that hypnotized by the brand? Best movie since Empire Strikes Back? This could be the weakest movie of them all.

Now I know I've been harsh on Disney Star Wars and I wasn't excited for the movie but I went in as a fanboy expecting to be impressed, I really didn't want to hate it, I wanted it to redeem VII. I don't hate it, it's not a rehash like VII, it's just boring. Mild spoilers ahead but I'm going to be as vague as I can, if I write a real spoiler I'll tag it.




The Good:
Every scene with Luke Skywalker is awesome, every single one, is it the best Luke Skywalker movie? haha no, but he did make the movie interesting. The training was a bit by the numbers but it worked and I feel they handled the character well.

The Rey/Kylo relationship was actually compelling, I actually cared about Kylo who I hated in TFA, Rey is still a Mary Sue but she was interesting. They kind of dropped the ball at the end though, but at least there's something besides Nostalgia from Luke that makes the movie interesting.

The Bad:

The whole movie drags, especially the beginning, and even near the third act when things begin happening it starts to drag again. It's so boring, this will make it very hard to re-watch, especially since I already know the "twists". I think even VII being a rehash will be more rewatchable than this one.

Captain Phasma is treated as well as she was in TFA, :ohwell: Finn, one of my fav. characters from VII was not written well in this movie, they kind of ruined him. All the new characters except for one who was ok sucked. Even Chewbacca felt wasted only used for laughs. Leia sucked, she's not that much different from TFA so you know what to expect.

Too much comedy? Maybe but that's far from the movies problems. We still don't know who the heck is the first order or what the resistance is. And somehow the resistance is now a rebellion and the first order is now almost in complete control of the galaxy? I don't know what's going on except that it really went back to the status quo of Episode IV, some fans tried to justify that VII had a different relationship between the factions but no, this movie confirms it's the status quo of the OT.

They drip fed us through out this long boring movie tidbits of information that should've been explained since TFA, and still it didn't really answer many questions. It's a bad movie that only lives by the "twists" it does, but if you take those away you are left with the only two good points I mentioned.

It's a bit depressing but I just don't like this new trilogy, there's literally nothing that IX could do to fix the damage done by VII and VIII. I can only hope any future Star Wars movies/projects are different but counting everyone is eating it up like they're great movies I'm not counting on it when people say "It's literally better than the ESB" :ohwell:

The Spoilers
Luke dying worked fine for me, it's sad since he was awesome in the movie but it works.

Yoda appearing? I don't know, it was cool but maybe it'll age just as bad as Lightsaber Yoda from Ep. II did which I loved when I first saw it but now cringe.

Snoke being killed while keeping things interesting, we never learn who the hell he was or how he knew all the things he knew, now that he's dead I doubt it'll be something too important in IX unless he somehow didn't die. ugh.

So Finn isn't Rey's love interest anymore? Way to downgrade the black guy in this movie..

I don't think Phasma died, but if she didn't she will never have any credibility.

[ZariusTwo]

Right, seen it. My thoughts

I was weary in the opening few minutes with Po quipping like a bad Marvel a-lister, but it thankfully settled not long after. Porgs weren't as intrusive as I thought they were going to be. The natives of Luke's island were lousy comic relief but, again, didn't appear too much.

Luke being responsible for Ben's downfall was a twist I was'nt spoiled on, but one I could see from orbit coming. I wonder what's become of the Knights of Ren? I thought we'd get a broader look at the destruction of the temple, but it really was very fleeting. Felt like an epic flashback made on a shoestring budget. All sorts of short cuts taken.

I liked that Rey really wasn't as big a deal as the packaging had you beleive. Oh sure she gets a lot of the focus early on and at the middle, but by the third act she's just piloting the Falcon and raising some rocks, instead it's left more to Kylo and Luke, as well as Finn and Rose. Rose was fine, though I think her love for Finn was more one-sided, at least that's what it seemed.

The lightsaber choreography fell very flat in my eyes, it was paced badly and the tug of war Kylo and Ray had over Luke's lightsaber was just preposterous.

It was interesting to see the codebreaker actually get away with selling out the Resistance at the end...part of me kind of does'nt want him to come back, just to show you that the galaxy is'nt a small world and a guy like him can get away with working both sides of "the machine" as he put it.

There was near-the-knuckle moments with Carrie Fisher..seeing her helpless in intensive care awoke painful memories of 2016, but I loved that she tore through the ship when she got back up and quashed Po's rebellion-within-the rebellion.

Loved Luke and Leia's reunion, especially in light of Carrie's passing, At least Leia got closure across both films before Carrie signed off

You sort of feel like a third one isn't necessary despite all that's still to be tied up.

[CyberCubed]

Wow, sdp, your review is so negative. Do you hate all Star Wars now?

[sdp]

I still love Star Wars, I just hate most of the Disney Star Wars output.

I do think Ep VIII might be the worst Star Wars film, worse than VII and Rogue One. The Luke Skywalker & Rey/Kylo parts of the movie are great and got my inner fanboy excited but the rest is just so bland and by the numbers, I guess I feel Disney Star Wars is soulless.

I think I feel how the Prequel haters felt with the prequels and how those movies ruined their Star Wars. To me the prequels had issues but it was still Star Wars and I could live with it, these movies ruin the OT more than the prequels ever did since they basically retcon and crap all over the OT.

[Andrew NDB]

Want to see what Yoda looks like?
https://www.instagram.com/p/BcqJl0EHB-v/

[Andrew NDB]

One thing I haven't heard anyone talk about is John Williams' "Last Jedi" music score. Is it any good?

[Vegita-San]

I honestly don't think he's the main guy anymore. he's just on there for honorary reasons.

With episode 7...you could tell one or two scores where his... the rest where so bland and un interesting, it had to be the second guy credited on the composer list.

[sdp]

One thing I haven't heard anyone talk about is John Williams' "Last Jedi" music score. Is it any good?

Like Episode VII nothing stood out to me, I can't recall any new theme that was memorable.

It's not bad I guess since I never felt the score was boring just not iconic like William's music usually is, might be his age tho. I had the same issue in TFA.

It is a shame tho, Star Wars always had great music.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

I think TFA's score is very good. It isn't trying to be eclectic and sprawling like the prequels' music; it's very much like A New Hope on steroids, which is what TFA is.
I haven't heard The Last Jedi but I hear there aren't any big new themes which were added, which is rather unfortunate.

[Spike Spiegel]

I still love Star Wars, I just hate most of the Disney Star Wars output.

I do think Ep VIII might be the worst Star Wars film, worse than VII and Rogue One. The Luke Skywalker & Rey/Kylo parts of the movie are great and got my inner fanboy excited but the rest is just so bland and by the numbers, I guess I feel Disney Star Wars is soulless.

I think I feel how the Prequel haters felt with the prequels and how those movies ruined their Star Wars. To me the prequels had issues but it was still Star Wars and I could live with it, these movies ruin the OT more than the prequels ever did since they basically retcon and crap all over the OT.

The only thing I like in this era of SW is the Rebels TV show, which still falls way short of the standards set by Clone Wars.

[NinjaPug]

One thing I haven't heard anyone talk about is John Williams' "Last Jedi" music score. Is it any good?

It's basically the same score from TFA

[Redeemer]

Saw the movie tonight, I definitely thought this was better than Force Awakens or Rogue One. The movie was not a Re-hash of any of the previous movies and had a couple of twist to the plot that you don't see coming.

[Krutch]

Just came back from seeing it.

Quick, random, spoiler-free thoughts....

-I liked that it felt different from all other Star Wars movies, so that's a big plus.
-Enjoyed everything involving Rey+Kylo. Cool to see the Force used in new ways, too.
-Rian Johnson's shortcomings as a director are really on display here, unfortunately. Every scene feels needlessly bloated and when the big moments come, he shoots them in the most obnoxiously overdramatic way possible.
-Every bit of comedy fell flat for me, but there were a few in the theatre that it seemed to work for.
-The sense of time in this is completely bizarre. It feels like everything with Leia takes place over maybe a day, but everything with Rey feels like at least a week. Anyone else feel this way?
-The movie hits a sweet spot in the middle in terms of payoff and pacing. There's a solid half hour in the middle where everything just feels right.
-The movie ends in a place where I'm not terribly interested to see what happens next. Actually, the very last scene was a very strange choice to end on. I get it, but it's still odd.
-No cool lightsaber fight in this movie. Kind of a bummer.
-Hated how alot of the best pairings from the previous movie were pretty much completely seperated this time around.

Overall, I liked it, but definitely underwhelmed.

[ProactiveMan]

I didn’t really like this movie – it has its moments, but I though the script was pretty abysmal. The plot felt like one of those exquisite corpse exercises, where someone writes a chunk and then passes it onto someone else. I don’t mean that it felt like a lot of people re-wrote the actual script, I mean that things that happened earlier in the script didn’t seem to have much bearing on things that happen later – sometimes immediately afterwards. For example…

I don’t know if the writer director did any research or anything, but in most military or paramilitary organisations, attempted mutiny and insubordination are very difficult to come back from. You don’t forcedly assume command from the highest ranking officer, only to have them calmly explain their point of view and applaud your moxie.

The codebreaker is supposedly gambling, wearing a red flower thing… no not really, the codebreaker is some other guy now. Then he betrays Rose and Fin and it’s played up as a big moment, then he just kind of wanders away.

Luke gives Ray her first lesson and freaks out over her power and attraction to the dark-side, and you’d think, that’s it, training’s over. Not so; he’s back the next day for lesson two, and doesn’t really bring it up again.

There are a lot of other examples, and just as many silly and unbelievable plot contrivances. Like the very first scene, where after a really lame series of jokes about Po putting General Hux on hold, some stuffy Admiral explains that their dreadnaught cannot defend itself against a single fighter, because it’s ‘too small and fast’. Why? That’s absurd. Fit it with a phalanx gun or something.

This improbable oversite allows the resistance to attempt a bombing run, which is even sillier if you think about it. How the f**k do you drop bombs in zero gravity?

At one point, Rose and Fin are about to be executed, surrounded by about a thousand Stormtroopers when Laura Dern hits the ship they are on with a Hyperspace Kamikaze run; killing all the Stormtroopers, including the two would-be executioners, but Rose and Fin are totally fine. So is Phasma, (who looks like she is having a lot of trouble walking for some reason). There are too many examples to mention.

The humour didn’t hit very often for me, and I thought it was badly incorporated into the script. It’s like the writer was contractually obliged to include a joke every five minutes, on the minute. A lot of them are poorly timed, mostly falling flat, but also often undercutting the weight of scenes. There are big moments that should feel weighty and tense, but the script keeps letting the air out with site-gags and misplaced observational humour; not to mention the ultra-cheesy attempts at fist-pumping one-liners that are one step away from “that’s gotta’ hurt”.

There was some shonky acting too. I thought Ray and Luke were really good, as were Rose and Fin. Po was alright, but he was given some of the dumbest stuff to do. Kylo Ren was pretty good as well, but almost everyone else in the First Order stunk it up big time. Hux and Snoke feel like they wandered out of one of the prequels.

The movie is getting good reviews and I’m vaguely disturbed by this. Are my taste changing, or is the mainstream leaving me behind? Is everyone caught up in the Star Wars excitement that I’m no-longer in synch with; am I outgrowing it? I liked the Force Awakens quite a lot, but Rogue One didn’t do a lot for me, and now this… maybe it’s me, I don’t know.

[Andrew NDB]

I suspect I'll share your sentiments, but...

How the f**k do you drop bombs in zero gravity?

Isn't that what the TIE-Bombers did in 5? In the asteroid belt? Presumably some self-propellant downward.

[Mayhem]

Yeah, that was my thought as well, the bombs were on some sort of rail system and being delivered downwards via it.

Like the very first scene, where after a really lame series of jokes about Po putting General Hux on hold, some stuffy Admiral explains that their dreadnaught cannot defend itself against a single fighter, because it’s ‘too small and fast’. Why? That’s absurd. Fit it with a phalanx gun or something.
Guess the First Order hadn't learned any lessons from the Empire...

Lt Tanbris: We count 30 rebel ships Lord Vader, but they are so small, they are evading our turbolasers!
Vader: We'll have to destroy them ship to ship, get the crews to their fighters.

[plastroncafe]

I caught this movie last night, and I'm still trying to process what it is I just watched..

The parts of this movie that I loved, I loved so hard. But I found the entire movie to be really inconsistent tonally. Not just within itself as a movie, but in terms of its place in the broader story.

Like Thor Ragnarok, it felt like it was just missing a sense of Gravitas that the other films generated so easily.

I loved that when push came to shove, Luke basically pulled a Yoda, and in the wake of his grief went crazy sarcastic hermit. No ****s left to give! Luke is my favorite Luke. And I certainly love the fact that he recognizes all of the flaws in the Jedi belief system.

At the risk of pulling avatar The Last Airbender into this, it's like he realized something Yang Chen said, about how the avatars' are not allowed to be spiritually pure because they have to remain part of the world. The Jedi's main folly is that they removed themselves from the world, and in doing so bred in themselves a kind of arrogance that ultimately led to their downfall.

I really dug all the stuff between Rey and Ben.

But I feel like the continuation of the Rebellion story was a different movie.

And I'm kind of torn as to how they represented Leia finally using some of her Force control.

Was I wrong, or was there a split-second shot of all of the Jedi texts ending up in a drawer on the Millennium Falcon?

I'll be honest, this is not my favorite Star Wars movie.
I certainly like it better than the prequels, but it doesn't feel like Star Wars to me the same way that Rogue one or The Force Awakens did.

I'm going to have to see this one again, and I'm certainly looking forward to seeing what other people think.

[NinjaPug]

I caught this movie last night, and I'm still trying to process what it is I just watched..

The parts of this movie that I loved, I loved so hard. But I found the entire movie to be really inconsistent tonally. Not just within itself as a movie, but in terms of its place in the broader story.

Like Thor Ragnarok, it felt like it was just missing a sense of Gravitas that the other films generated so easily.

I loved that when push came to shove, Luke basically pulled a Yoda, and in the wake of his grief went crazy sarcastic hermit. No ****s left to give! Luke is my favorite Luke. And I certainly love the fact that he recognizes all of the flaws in the Jedi belief system.

At the risk of pulling avatar The Last Airbender into this, it's like he realized something Yang Chen said, about how the avatars' are not allowed to be spiritually pure because they have to remain part of the world. The Jedi's main folly is that they removed themselves from the world, and in doing so bred in themselves a kind of arrogance that ultimately led to their downfall.

I really dug all the stuff between Rey and Ben.

But I feel like the continuation of the Rebellion story was a different movie.

And I'm kind of torn as to how they represented Leia finally using some of her Force control.

Was I wrong, or was there a split-second shot of all of the Jedi texts ending up in a drawer on the Millennium Falcon?

I'll be honest, this is not my favorite Star Wars movie.
I certainly like it better than the prequels, but it doesn't feel like Star Wars to me the same way that Rogue one or The Force Awakens did.

I'm going to have to see this one again, and I'm certainly looking forward to seeing what other people think.


Pretty much sums up my thoughts. The stuff that worked for me REALLY worked for me but the movie was so inconsistent that it was jarring to me. Way too much jokey stuff that just didn't land.

While the Finn-Rose subplot tied into the overall theme of the movie it fell flat for me and took me out of the movie. I just wanted to get back to the Luke-Rey-Ben-Snoke story.

Yes, you did see the Jedi books in drawers of the Falcon.

I really hope JJ doesn't retcon Rey's parentage in IX. It would be really disappointing to suddenly make her a Skywalker, Kenobi, etc. and just dismiss the whole anyone can be a hero narrative that Rian layered into the entire movie.

[MikeandRaph87]

I saw it last night. Luke is dead? I don't get it. He was not dying of old age like Yoda or allowed to be killed like Obi Wan. Did he just exhaust his body for not using the force then using it full blown? Just trying to make sense of it.

Also, after two years of waiting Luke tossed the light saber aside.:lol::o

[Andrew NDB]

I really hope JJ doesn't retcon Rey's parentage in IX. It would be really disappointing to suddenly make her a Skywalker, Kenobi, etc.

That might have been the plan from the start. Episode IX: "PSYCHE! She's been Luke's daughter the whole time." And then maybe we meet Mom.

But I feel like the continuation of the Rebellion story was a different movie.

My biggest wish was that they would bother to explain why it's a Rebellion. The New Republic is the established ruling government of the galaxy, put in place by the Rebel Alliance after their victory over the Empire in Episode VI. "The First Order" isn't even the Empire, but rather just some ragtag Imperial remnants that cobbled together their forces. I re-watched VII last night and it literally says in the opening crawl that the New Republic "supports" the Resistance... but why is it a Resistance? Why are they "rebels"? Why is it a "Rebellion"? The "First Order" are the ones rebelling against the ruling body of the Republic, not the other way around. I've read that the new books and stuff explain that the New Republic is inherently pacifistic, so that's why they can't openly endorse the Resistance, but they still want the Resistance to fight the First Order, but quietly, on the side. Why in the hell would the Rebel Alliance, all of those war-hardened generals and leaders among them, set up the New Republic as a pacifistic governing body to begin with? Especially with the Imperial remnants still lurking out there?? It doesn't make any sense.

I don't care what the explanation is, I just want to understand what's going on.

[newfan]

That might have been the plan from the start. Episode IX: "PSYCHE! She's been Luke's daughter the whole time." And then maybe we meet Mom.



They might have it turn out that she was adopted for her own safely but that's doing that same thing again ..also..from what would she need protecting from at that time. I'd have liked a bit more a story to her powers though than she's just a random person who's strong with the force.

[Andrew NDB]

I'd almost bet the farm the "HAH! You're just a nobody, your parents are random nameless traders/smugglers!" big reveal is a smokescreen meant to make the actual reveal in IX a bigger deal. At the very least, the parents will be legit Jedis or Sith-wannabes who factor into IX heavily.

[plastroncafe]

Ben solo is a liar, he's never been a trustworthy narrator. Until something is corroborated by another character, we should take pretty much everything he says as incorrect.

That said, I kind of hope he is telling the truth. I like the idea of Rey just being a person. Not being a Skywalker, not being a Kenobi, just a person. The simple Farm Boy that Luke was supposed to be but wasn't.

As for your question Andrew, I think the idea is that the resistance is fighting against oligarchy and the power of the haves to oppress the Have Nots.

[newfan]

Oh I didn't realise that is where the information came from

He could well be lying but as Andrew said, smokescreen is a good bet. It may not be Luke or Obi-wan, maybe they'll come up with something different, just something more to her.

I am yet to see it (hopefully the weekend) but I get the feeling some people don't know if they like it or not overall and there's a lot to digest.

[MikeandRaph87]

I'd almost bet the farm the "HAH! You're just a nobody, your parents are random nameless traders/smugglers!" big reveal is a smokescreen meant to make the actual reveal in IX a bigger deal. At the very least, the parents will be legit Jedis or Sith-wannabes who factor into IX heavily.

What surprised me was Luke did not know who she was. Sure,
it would be cool if she was his daughter,but just a force user that he could seen or knew a prophecy about.

I welcome a bigger reveal, however what if is instead of nobodies who sold their child into slavery that they were well intentioned people.

[biganimefan]

Current Rotten Tomatoes audience score: 60%



But seriously, from things that I've heard about this movie I'm glad that I'm no spoiler-phobe. No desire to see it in the theater now(very little to begin with though honestly). Much rather spend my time and money on "The Post". When the library gets The Last Jedi I'll give it a rent...when I get around to it.

[sdp]

I don't think this discussion is a spoiler but since Andrew has it as a spoiler I'll spoilerify my post.

I also realize this is the main reason I disliked The Last Jedi

My biggest wish was that they would bother to explain why it's a Rebellion. The New Republic is the established ruling government of the galaxy, put in place by the Rebel Alliance after their victory over the Empire in Episode VI. "The First Order" isn't even the Empire, but rather just some ragtag Imperial remnants that cobbled together their forces. I re-watched VII last night and it literally says in the opening crawl that the New Republic "supports" the Resistance... but why is it a Resistance? Why are they "rebels"? Why is it a "Rebellion"? The "First Order" are the ones rebelling against the ruling body of the Republic, not the other way around. I've read that the new books and stuff explain that the New Republic is inherently pacifistic, so that's why they can't openly endorse the Resistance, but they still want the Resistance to fight the First Order, but quietly, on the side. Why in the hell would the Rebel Alliance, all of those war-hardened generals and leaders among them, set up the New Republic as a pacifistic governing body to begin with? Especially with the Imperial remnants still lurking out there?? It doesn't make any sense.

I don't care what the explanation is, I just want to understand what's going on.

You're going to hate The Last Jedi then, not only do they not explain anything but somehow the first order is now in control of most of the galaxy. Like that no explanation.

The republic is not mentioned at all, or if it is it must be a blink and miss it piece of dialog. The movie actually ends with Luke saying, *SPOILER* "You're wrong,
this isn't the First Order hasn't won, the war begins today, the rebellion restarts today" It might not be 100% like that since I don't remember it very well but it's that's the dialog.

What the hell, so we're back to the original status quo 100% of the Empire vs the Rebels and the rebels are now the underdogs? Everything that happened in the OT is now pointless. And none of this is ever explained, nothing is explained.

Same with Snoke, he isn't a sith from the interviews they gave us and yet he has force powers including force lightning? He is mentioned as the one who corrupted Ben Solo and obviously has a lot of knowledge based on his dialog and he's killed without ever explaining who he was? He was basically the emperor, an old man who had powers but we never learn anything about Snoke or how he became powerful and now he is dead so it doesn't really matter much who he is anymore I guess



F-ck this movie and the sequel trilogy.

No desire to see it in the theater now(very little to begin with though honestly).

I think any Star Wars fan should watch it, the Luke Skywalker scenes while missed opportunities are still all great and the character was handled very well, the Kylo/Rey relationship peaks your interest as well.

It's the whole direction of the sequel trilogy and how it's just pandering to the OT and that the stakes for no given reason are now the same as in the OT that ruins it for me.

[Spike Spiegel]

I don't think this discussion is a spoiler but since Andrew has it as a spoiler I'll spoilerify my post.

I also realize this is the main reason I disliked The Last Jedi


You're going to hate The Last Jedi then, not only do they not explain anything but somehow the first order is now in control of most of the galaxy. Like that no explanation.

The republic is not mentioned at all, or if it is it must be a blink and miss it piece of dialog. The movie actually ends with Luke saying, *SPOILER* "You're wrong,
this isn't the First Order hasn't won, the war begins today, the rebellion restarts today" It might not be 100% like that since I don't remember it very well but it's that's the dialog.

What the hell, so we're back to the original status quo 100% of the Empire vs the Rebels and the rebels are now the underdogs? Everything that happened in the OT is now pointless. And none of this is ever explained, nothing is explained.

Same with Snoke, he isn't a sith from the interviews they gave us and yet he has force powers including force lightning? He is mentioned as the one who corrupted Ben Solo and obviously has a lot of knowledge based on his dialog and he's killed without ever explaining who he was? He was basically the emperor, an old man who had powers but we never learn anything about Snoke or how he became powerful and now he is dead so it doesn't really matter much who he is anymore I guess



F-ck this movie and the sequel trilogy.



I think any Star Wars fan should watch it, the Luke Skywalker scenes while missed opportunities are still all great and the character was handled very well, the Kylo/Rey relationship peaks your interest as well.

It's the whole direction of the sequel trilogy and how it's just pandering to the OT and that the stakes for no given reason are now the same as in the OT that ruins it for me.

Is it at least worth a free public library rental?

[Andrew NDB]

You're going to hate The Last Jedi then, not only do they not explain anything but somehow the first order is now in control of most of the galaxy. Like that no explanation.

The republic is not mentioned at all, or if it is it must be a blink and miss it piece of dialog. The movie actually ends with Luke saying, *SPOILER* "You're wrong,
this isn't the First Order hasn't won, the war begins today, the rebellion restarts today" It might not be 100% like that since I don't remember it very well but it's that's the dialog.

What the hell, so we're back to the original status quo 100% of the Empire vs the Rebels and the rebels are now the underdogs? Everything that happened in the OT is now pointless. And none of this is ever explained, nothing is explained.

Same with Snoke, he isn't a sith from the interviews they gave us and yet he has force powers including force lightning? He is mentioned as the one who corrupted Ben Solo and obviously has a lot of knowledge based on his dialog and he's killed without ever explaining who he was? He was basically the emperor, an old man who had powers but we never learn anything about Snoke or how he became powerful and now he is dead so it doesn't really matter much who he is anymore I guess

Sounds like sh**. If they really wanted Rebels vs. Empire again because nostalgia they should have just had it that the Rebel Alliance didn't entirely defeat the Empire in VI, that they never got to make a New Republic and have been at a constant state of war for 30 years. There, simple. It makes sense.

[sdp]

I remember getting into an argument here in the drome and on Twitter about Captain Phasma and they kept telling me how the way she was treated in The Force Awakens made TOTAL SENSE because of the EU book that explains her reasons and whatnot and that she would be the total badass in The Last Jedi...

And boom, she has 4 seconds of being a total badass, I was hyped,
she looked awesome, she seemed menacing, I was about to look past Episode VII's portrayal and 4 seconds later she goes out like a chump.

Her "death" is not explicit so I'm guessing she'll be alive for Episode IX but can we really take her seriously anymore after being disposed of like that two movies in a row?



Is it at least worth a free public library rental?

Like I said I think there's enough there for any Star Wars fan to enjoy watching it at least once in theaters those moments are still cool regardless, it's only the direction that the franchise took that sucks.

[RaphaelinSTL]

I still need to see this thing but damn ... look at the disconnect just from one day.

https://i.imgur.com/Dy8CaU7.png

I wonder how this will shift over the weekend.

[plastroncafe]

Take all of this with a fanwanking grain of salt, but...the more I think on this, the more I prefer the story this movie is telling.

What we have here is a genre shift from Space Opera, to something else...and it's got some growing pains. Kind of like Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was a departure from Pulp to B-Movie Sci-Fi...but set in the same world with the same characters.

The Jedi were wrong. The Jedi were always wrong, and I think that's one of the reasons I really like Luke's arc. You can't have balance by eradicating one side of the equation.

At the end of the original trilogy there was a vacuum. The Republic was defeated, and Vader got his redemption arc, but...you can't have light without dark. You just can't. Nature abhors a vacuum.
So what you get is the First Order.

Just because you take down the leaders of an bad regime, that doesn't mean that the people who were supportive of that regime just....go away.
They might hide, but you can't kill an idea. Especially if it's held by a true believer of that idea.

So what we get between the end of Return and Awakens, well it's an intermediate period, for those that know their Ancient Egyptian history.
Or, should you be a musical theater buff, it's Act II of Into the Woods.

To me this makes sense. Especially if you consider the information we get in this movie. That the people in control are the ones with the most money, and those are the war profiteers. The ones who don't care who the new boss is, so long as they can continue to sell bullets to both sides.

It's all grey. We find balance in the grey.
And nature seeks equilibrium.

Now you can find that story not to your liking, but...I think it's one worth telling.

[sdp]

"Best movie since The Empire Strikes Back"

I'm actually surprised by fans dislike of the movie, it's only problems are the same ones that The Force Awakens has, it does drag, they could've easily cut the movie to under 2 hours but you can say that about most movies. I thought fans would eat it up like TFA.


Sorry, this will be my last rant before only replying to other people:

Finn: Wow, he was such an awesome character in TFA and wanted to see more of him and see him be more heroic and here they treated him like garbage.

Leia: Wow, she sucks, her being a general was the worst thing ever. Her character isn't that different from TFA but now she has more time and it's boring. Counting how well they handled Han Solo and Luke Skywalker, it's a shame Leia got the short end of the stick. I know this will be an unpopular opinion because Carrie Fisher passed away but she was easily the worst returning character and just a bad character overall. CG Leia in Rogue One was better.

BB8: Even he got very little time in the movie, and in this movie he definitely didn't have as much personality and seemed more like a boring R2D2 clone. C3PO and R2D2 also had very weak scenes along with Chewie, all these characters felt like "Oh they exist, let's give them something to do for a few seconds".

Poe: He got a lot of attention but he is boring, TFA did well on focusing more on Finn than Poe.

The bad general guy: I don't even know his name or care about him, even
Director Krennec(?) from Rogue One had more presence than this one even if he was underused in Rogue One.

The movie does have more humor than the average Star Wars film but it's not THAT much and for some reason it didn't bother me, I can see it being annoying if all future movies are like this (and likely will be) but far from a complain from me.

[Vegita-San]

unlike with force awakens, there seems to b e ALOT more 'hate' for this movie right out of the gate.

I'm noting alot more dislikes in comments than likes.

are people starting to realize disney wars really isn't all that original/great after all this fast?

[Andrew NDB]

unlike with force awakens, there seems to b e ALOT more 'hate' for this movie right out of the gate.

I'm noting alot more dislikes in comments than likes.

are people starting to realize disney wars really isn't all that original/great after all this fast?

Probably. This was the last bastion.

TFA was the big remakey, "We have to make it remakey to undo all the damage of the prequels (which was a FAKE narrative)... now with that out of the way, we can do ALL NEW stuff!" movie. And if TFA was a structural, story return to ANH, "Rogue One" was a literal return to ANH. Now with "Last Jedi," we finally get the promised "ALL NEW stuff!" movie and it doesn't sound like it really has anything new to say.

[plastroncafe]

Having seen it, I don't think that's the case at all.
I think it has a lot to say, I don't know that it went the best possible route for saying it in all cases, but that doesn't change the fact that it had a whole lot to say.

[sdp]

We might have a new love triangle



I hated that new character Rose and how they made her the love interest for Finn and they even kiss but thinking back when Rey sees Finn with her she seemed a little jealous, but it might just be my wishful thinking.

Not only did they treat Finn like a loser in this film but they also took away his love interest. If they actually make Rey not his love interest then yeah they f-cked Finn badly in the film. It'd be great to see him end up with Rey and they just tried to make some type of love triangle like in ESB but I might just be setting myself up for disappointment.

Having seen it, I don't think that's the case at all.
I think it has a lot to say, I don't know that it went the best possible route for saying it in all cases, but that doesn't change the fact that it had a whole lot to say.

And what exactly did it have to say?

[plastroncafe]

Not only did they treat Finn like a loser in this film but they also took away his love interest. If they actually make Rey not his love interest then yeah they f-cked Finn badly in the film. It'd be great to see him end up with Rey and they just tried to make some type of love triangle like in ESB but I might just be setting myself up for disappointment.


TFA had a love triangle already.
So maybe it's a love quadrangle?

Personally, I hope that Rey doesn't end up with anyone.

I'm still boggled how Finn became a loser.
Sure he started out as one, but instead of running to save his own skin, this time he was running to save his friend's. That's not the action of a loser.



And what exactly did it have to say?

I thought it dealt a lot with themes of nostalgia getting in the way of actual forward progress. The greater good of the long game vs the momentary elation of a quick win. How a change of address doesn't magically make one's problems go away. Grief, and the unhealthy ways we deal with it. Rigidity of thought and action, and how that's incompatible with life.

Stuff like that, which might not be your jam, but it sure as heck is mine.

[Andrew NDB]

Watching it tonight about 11. I wonder if my having read all the spoilers will temper my expectations.

[ZariusTwo]

Watching it tonight about 11. I wonder if my having read all the spoilers will temper my expectations.

It did for me. Came out with plenty to dislike and like, just neither love nor loath

[sdp]

I thought it dealt a lot with themes of nostalgia getting in the way of actual forward progress. The greater good of the long game vs the momentary elation of a quick win. How a change of address doesn't magically make one's problems go away. Grief, and the unhealthy ways we deal with it. Rigidity of thought and action, and how that's incompatible with life.

Stuff like that, which might not be your jam, but it sure as heck is mine.
Haha sorry but you're reaching with most of your points.
What theme of nostalgia getting in the way of progress? Because of the Jedi and Luke/Yoda saying it was ok for it to end?
You're looking too much into it when the movie ends with Empire vs underdog Rebels, now that is nostalgia getting in the way.

What Long game? That the resistance escaped so the first order "didn't" win when Kylo Ren wanted to "end it once and for all" but instead "the war just begun"? ugh, I can't believe going back to the status quo is something interesting to you.

Change / grief cannot be just be ignored/dealt with like that? Isn't that the same thing that we saw with Obi Wan and Yoda in the OT?

I don't know what movie you watched but you're being really forgiving of the flaws, did it have cool moments? Sure, but storytelling took a huge hit for the sake of having Empire vs Rebels again.

About Finn: Instead of being treated as a main character, he was more of a side character, I guess they didn't feel confortable in having a Black man be he main focus of the movie again, and maybe the inter-racial relationship wasn't what Disney wanted? He was supposed to be a hero, in TFA we saw him go from a coward to accepting his fate in doing something about it. Here the only heroic thing he did was try to disable the tracker which not only did he do it poorly but also failed at it.


Watching it tonight about 11. I wonder if my having read all the spoilers will temper my expectations.

Who knows, it might not be as bad as you imagined so you'll like it more than you thought and have a positive opinion on it or since you already know the major twists than had you wondering it might be even more boring. Though there are a few smaller things that haven't been mentioned that I'm not sure will be your cup of tea either.

[plastroncafe]

Haha sorry but you're reaching with most of your points.


Yeah...I don't think we saw the same movie.
Especially with regards to Finn.

Mileage varies.

[sdp]

It appears plenty of people are seeing the movie I saw however.

[plastroncafe]

It appears plenty of people are seeing the movie I saw however.

I'm glad for you all?
Kind of like I'm equally glad for all the folks I know saw the same movie I did.

Yay?

I am surprised that the breakdown of like/dislike of stuff isn't going neatly to one side or the other, ie. Conservation fans vs Transformative fans.
Which is interesting.

[Krutch]

So what's everyone's current rankings of Star Wars movies?

I think mines currently looking like this...

-A New Hope
-Empire Strikes Back
-Return of the Jedi
-The Force Awakens
-Revenge of the Sith
-Phantom Menace
-The Last Jedi
-Attack of the Clones
-Rogue One

[sdp]

I'm not very good at this, I saw all the OT so young and always together that it's hard for me to separate them but I guess if I must:

ANH > ROTJ > ESB > TPM > AOTC > ROTS > TFA > TLJ

I'm not putting Rogue One since it's a spin-off and if I must then I'd feel obligated to rank the Clone Wars film and even the Ewok movies. Rogue One is definitely down there though, and even if I didn't absolutely hate it, I feel it's unnecessary and don't feel like I ever want to watch it again.

Things to note:
I don't care about how "good" ESB is, I prefer ROTJ. You can't have Star Wars without ANH, the ESB and ROTJ fleshed and improved what we saw on ANH but it was still just improvements over what we saw in ANH.

I consider Episode I almost as good as the OT, I really like it, hate on me, I saw it as a kid.
AOTC I really enjoy, if you take the Anakin/Padme love scenes it's far better than it's given credit.
ROTS I am not a fan with anything they did with the characters.

The hype I had for TFA puts it over TLJ, and most of what makes me hate on TLJ is it just doubled down on the things I hated on TFA, so TLJ being last might be a little unfair, TFA did most of the damage but at least I liked the new heroes in TFA.

[NinjaPug]

The discrepancy in scores between critics and the audience for this movie in relation to DC movies is fascinating to me. It's almost like these aren't real people giving out scores.

Seems like there are a bunch of people upset they didn't get powerful Force user Luke wrecking **** and that Rian decided to ignore JJ's stupid mystery box setup from TFA. I've got issues with the movie but these decisions weren't part of them.

[sdp]

We did get an OP Luke being a bad ass and wrecking **** though, what are you talking about?because he died? Han died last movie and people didn't rate the movie badly, Luke was awesome and everyone seems to agree with that, that is not the criticism of the movie

So you're implying because fans are not liking the movie that they're wrong and the superior critics are right?

Rian didn't ignore anything from JJ, he doubled down on it, maybe people just realized what JJ made isn't what they really want going forward. I never liked TFA but it took almost 2 years for most people to realize it wasn't that good, when TLJ didn't deliver either they're being less forgiving.

[NinjaPug]

We did get an OP Luke being a bad ass and wrecking **** though, what are you talking about?because he died? Han died last movie and people didn't rate the movie badly, Luke was awesome and everyone seems to agree with that, that is not the criticism of the movie

So you're implying because fans are not liking the movie that they're wrong and the superior critics are right?

Rian didn't ignore anything from JJ, he doubled down on it, maybe people just realized what JJ made isn't what they really want going forward. I never liked TFA but it took almost 2 years for most people to realize it wasn't that good, when TLJ didn't deliver either they're being less forgiving.

How did he wreck **** exactly? He bought them time to get away. I don't think Force projection Luke is what people had in their heads when thinking of Jedi Master Luke using his Force powers.

I'm not sure where you got that implication from. I think it's interesting that vocal Internet fanbases can move the needle on scores like that to the point that bots are used to help push the score up/down. You'll never see me say a critic's opinion is superior.

I don't know if it was JJ's intention to have Snoke killed in part 2 with no backstory or to have Rey parents being Junkers that sold her into slavery. My point is that using the mystery box technique that JJ does opens up the possibility for disappointment from the audience when the reveal doesn't match what they've been theorizing for two years.

Those were the things that I've seen people bitch about the most. Like I said, those didn't bother me. I had other issues with the movie.

[Shark_Blade]

So what's everyone's current rankings of Star Wars movies?

I think mines currently looking like this...

-A New Hope
-Empire Strikes Back
-Return of the Jedi
-The Force Awakens
-Revenge of the Sith
-Phantom Menace
-The Last Jedi
-Attack of the Clones
-Rogue One

1. The Phantom Menace (9.8/10)
2. A New Hope (9.5/10)
3. The Last Jedi (9/10)
4. Rogue One (9/10)
5. The Force Awakens (8/10)
6. Return of the Jedi (7/10)
7. The Empire Strikes Back (6/10)
8. Revenge of the Sith (3/10)
9. Attack of the Clones (2/10)

[Sabacooza]

I still need to see this thing but damn ... look at the disconnect just from one day.

https://i.imgur.com/Dy8CaU7.png

I wonder how this will shift over the weekend.I saw the movie and even though it's a nice movie to look at, I'd say the 53% score is more accurate. Most of it was odd and out of character. It didn't feel quite like Star Wars.

[TonySiegel]

Once the hype dies down... youll see this movie for what it is...

I can't believe they started the movie with a prank call and a your mom joke...

Oh well I gave up on star wars long ago...

Cool movie... but an alright star wars film...

[Shark_Blade]

Once the hype dies down... youll see this movie for what it is...

I can't believe they started the movie with a prank call and a your mom joke...

Oh well I gave up on star wars long ago...

Cool movie... but an alright star wars film...

Revenge of the Sith had R2D2 pissing oil on enemies and burnt them. Jokes are not that uncommon in Star Wars.

[Andrew NDB]

Saw it.

To begin with, I'd sure have cut the hell out of the awkward jokes at the very beginning of the movie (to me, Domhall Gleeson's General Hux seemed like a caricature of a high-ranking Imperial officer in TFA, like a kid wearing a general's clothes trying to act tough and unintentionally failing at it... now why would you open the new movie only accentuating that rather than making him actually legit fearsome? it makes it momentarily feel like an Austin Powers sequel to TFA), also a good number of the excessive Marvel-style "better lighten the mood about now!" jokes sprinkled throughout that don't land and don't seem appropriately placed (Yoda DOES have some great humor here, but there's one joke in particular from him that fell completely flat and seemed out of character, about two from Luke, too... all of this kind of stuff can be scrapped)...

... but I rather enjoyed it. I did. It didn't feel remakey, which was my #1 worry about this movie after seeing TFA two years ago and the previews for this movie. Having seen it, it mostly felt new and fresh while still having good doses of original Luke and Leia stuff. I'd definitely retailor the ending to have Luke actually *physically* showing up in his old X-Wing limping there and just f**ing wrecking those Walkers with the Force, pulling down TIE Fighters and smashing them into the ground like toys (we needed at least one big "HOLY SH**!" Force moment with Luke, IMHO) and goading Kylo to come out and face him mano-e-mano, then beating Kylo in a lightsaber battle, but before delivering the killing stroke... rearing back and letting Kylo kill him just like Obi-Wan went out. That'd seem much more digestible and allow Luke to go out like a G and even further sell his guilt about Kylo. I think the reason that that didn't happen, or something close to it (i.e., Kylo killing not one but two OT characters) was that it will make it too hard to sell Kylo's full turn to the Light in IX. I also think Rey is going to go full-on evil in the next one, but that's neither here or there. And don't believe the big parents reveal here at all.

But that's just what I'd do. What's there isn't bad. I like the organic cutting back and forth throughout. It's actually shocking how much the Resistance loses in this. We begin, it's a giant Mon Calamari Cruiser, a bunch of bombers, a bunch of frigates that go blooie... then it's a handful of escape ships... then it's reduced to a scant number of people that are all able to fit on the Falcon. Shesus. Probably 800,000 people died on-screen. It could be argued that more people died in TFA with the five planets that were destroyed, but not one care was given to it by the script or the filmmakers. "POOF! Possibly 20 billion lives gone, let's not even talk about it," was the order of the day 2 years ago. So why would the audience care or even make note? This movie actually made every ship going blooie make me worry.

Since TFA I've been complaining that I have no idea what the political landscape is or what the lay of the land is, which means I don't know what the stakes are or basically even what's going on at all. Eh, I kind of understand it now. It's pretty dodgy, but I think I can wrap my head around it now. ROTJ => Empire is defeated => Rebel Alliance forms the New Republic => 35 years of peace (I guess?) => Resistance is formed quietly to be on guard from what the First Order is doing (while for reasons unknown the New Republic is 100% pacifistic, we're told) => First Order blows up those planets in TFA and dismantles the New Republic, leaving only their oddly-named "Resistance" around. I just wish they'd clarified this all a bit better. I have a strong suspicion that it's that Disney is deathly afraid that even the slightest, most passing discussion of galactic politics in-movie will equate to "Oh nooes!! Politics! That's what everyone on the internets complained about in the prequel trilogy!!! Avoid it at all costs!!" Even if it prevents audiences from having even the most basic understanding of who is fighting who and for why after the last movies.

If TFA made me sad that there wasn't actually any fighting in space (i.e., no... Star... Wars?), TLJ made me sad that two movies into this new trilogy, we haven't had even one good lightsaber battle. In TFA it was a semi-rookie vs. full-on rookie lightsaber fight... and it was truncated. This time we get a "let me Force-push a button on my lightsaber and kill you without any fight" fight with Snoke, a scuffle with non-Force users in that same throne room, then a FAKE lightsaber fight between Kylo and Luke where one of them wasn't even actually there. C'mon, folks. It's not hard math. You have to make original stories, but a numbered Star Wars film? At least one great lightsaber fight is a prerequisite. I did enjoy the artsy, samurai-esque touches to the FAKE Kylo-Luke fight with the footwork and angles, though.

No idea where they'll go from here. I suspect they'll do a big time lapse after this and maybe it's "Yay! We found some star systems that will help, plus we have these here 19 year old Jedis Rey has trained!" But yeesh. TLJ isn't even set up on a cliffhanger, really. The whole saga could just end here and it sort of works. If TFA was ANH on crack, TLJ wasn't TESB, but it does amplify the grim impact of its ending tenfold.

Sidenote: didn't the last movie literally show us that when you jump into Hyperspace, you phase through any physical matter in your path, even if it's 5 meters in front of you? That makes the Admiral's sacrifice kind of impossible.

These kind of rankings pop up but are meaningless so close to having seen the latest movie to add into the equation (always have... go back and look at most people's rankings of the Indy movies right when Indy 4 came out, as one example), but I'll play anyway:

Personally...

1. Star Wars, Episode IV: A New Hope
2. Star Wars, Episode VI: Return of the Jedi
3. Star Wars, Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back
4. Star Wars, Episode I: The Phantom Menace
5. Star Wars, Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
6. Star Wars, Episode III: Revenge of the Sith

Little bit of a gap, and then:

7. Star Wars, Episode II: Attack of the Clones
8. Star Wars, Episode VII: The Force Awakens

Disclaimer: I watched this movie after having spoiled myself on all of the spoilers in the movie. I think this helped. My expectations were tempered.

[Shark_Blade]

I recently realized that purple hair woman Vice Admiral Amilyn Holdo was the woman from Jurassic Park! :tlol: No wonder she looks familiar. Iconic. :tlove::lol:

[NinjaPug]

Saw it.

To begin with, I'd sure have cut the hell out of the awkward jokes at the very beginning of the movie (to me, Domhall Gleeson's General Hux seemed like a caricature of a high-ranking Imperial officer in TFA, like a kid wearing a general's clothes trying to act tough and unintentionally failing at it... now why would you open the new movie only accentuating that rather than making him actually legit fearsome? it makes it momentarily feel like an Austin Powers sequel to TFA), also a good number of the excessive Marvel-style "better lighten the mood about now!" jokes sprinkled throughout that don't land and don't seem appropriately placed (Yoda DOES have some great humor here, but there's one joke in particular from him that fell completely flat and seemed out of character, about two from Luke, too... all of this kind of stuff can be scrapped)...

... but I rather enjoyed it. I did. It didn't feel remakey, which was my #1 worry about this movie after seeing TFA two years ago and the previews for this movie. Having seen it, it mostly felt new and fresh while still having good doses of original Luke and Leia stuff. I'd definitely retailor the ending to have Luke actually *physically* showing up in his old X-Wing limping there and just f**ing wrecking those Walkers with the Force, pulling down TIE Fighters and smashing them into the ground like toys (we needed at least one big "HOLY SH**!" Force moment with Luke, IMHO) and goading Kylo to come out and face him mano-e-mano, then beating Kylo in a lightsaber battle, but before delivering the killing stroke... rearing back and letting Kylo kill him just like Obi-Wan went out. That'd seem much more digestible and allow Luke to go out like a G and even further sell his guilt about Kylo. I think the reason that that didn't happen, or something close to it (i.e., Kylo killing not one but two OT characters) was that it will make it too hard to sell Kylo's full turn to the Light in IX. I also think Rey is going to go full-on evil in the next one, but that's neither here or there. And don't believe the big parents reveal here at all.

But that's just what I'd do. What's there isn't bad. I like the organic cutting back and forth throughout. It's actually shocking how much the Resistance loses in this. We begin, it's a giant Mon Calamari Cruiser, a bunch of bombers, a bunch of frigates that go blooie... then it's a handful of escape ships... then it's reduced to a scant number of people that are all able to fit on the Falcon. Shesus. Probably 800,000 people died on-screen. It could be argued that more people died in TFA with the five planets that were destroyed, but not one care was given to it by the script or the filmmakers. "POOF! Possibly 20 billion lives gone, let's not even talk about it," was the order of the day 2 years ago. So why would the audience care or even make note? This movie actually made every ship going blooie make me worry.

Since TFA I've been complaining that I have no idea what the political landscape is or what the lay of the land is, which means I don't know what the stakes are or basically even what's going on at all. Eh, I kind of understand it now. It's pretty dodgy, but I think I can wrap my head around it now. ROTJ => Empire is defeated => Rebel Alliance forms the New Republic => 35 years of peace (I guess?) => Resistance is formed quietly to be on guard from what the First Order is doing (while for reasons unknown the New Republic is 100% pacifistic, we're told) => First Order blows up those planets in TFA and dismantles the New Republic, leaving only their oddly-named "Resistance" around. I just wish they'd clarified this all a bit better. I have a strong suspicion that it's that Disney is deathly afraid that even the slightest, most passing discussion of galactic politics in-movie will equate to "Oh nooes!! Politics! That's what everyone on the internets complained about in the prequel trilogy!!! Avoid it at all costs!!" Even if it prevents audiences from having even the most basic understanding of who is fighting who and for why after the last movies.

If TFA made me sad that there wasn't actually any fighting in space (i.e., no... Star... Wars?), TLJ made me sad that two movies into this new trilogy, we haven't had even one good lightsaber battle. In TFA it was a semi-rookie vs. full-on rookie lightsaber fight... and it was truncated. This time we get a "let me Force-push a button on my lightsaber and kill you without any fight" fight with Snoke, a scuffle with non-Force users in that same throne room, then a FAKE lightsaber fight between Kylo and Luke where one of them wasn't even actually there. C'mon, folks. It's not hard math. You have to make original stories, but a numbered Star Wars film? At least one great lightsaber fight is a prerequisite. I did enjoy the artsy, samurai-esque touches to the FAKE Kylo-Luke fight with the footwork and angles, though.

No idea where they'll go from here. I suspect they'll do a big time lapse after this and maybe it's "Yay! We found some star systems that will help, plus we have these here 19 year old Jedis Rey has trained!" But yeesh. TLJ isn't even set up on a cliffhanger, really. The whole saga could just end here and it sort of works. If TFA was ANH on crack, TLJ wasn't TESB, but it does amplify the grim impact of its ending tenfold.

Sidenote: didn't the last movie literally show us that when you jump into Hyperspace, you phase through any physical matter in your path, even if it's 5 meters in front of you? That makes the Admiral's sacrifice kind of impossible.

These kind of rankings pop up but are meaningless so close to having seen the latest movie to add into the equation (always have... go back and look at most people's rankings of the Indy movies right when Indy 4 came out, as one example), but I'll play anyway:

Personally...

1. Star Wars, Episode IV: A New Hope
2. Star Wars, Episode VI: Return of the Jedi
3. Star Wars, Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back
4. Star Wars, Episode I: The Phantom Menace
5. Star Wars, Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
6. Star Wars, Episode III: Revenge of the Sith

Little bit of a gap, and then:

7. Star Wars, Episode II: Attack of the Clones
8. Star Wars, Episode VII: The Force Awakens

Disclaimer: I watched this movie after having spoiled myself on all of the spoilers in the movie. I think this helped. My expectations were tempered.

They expanded on the political landscape after ROTJ in one of the books. It adds detail but it still seems forced to make the Republic forces like original Rebellion.

After the Battle of Jakku, the New Republic (mainly Mon Mothma) essentially decommissioned the majority of their military. The reasoning for this was spotty but it was to show they weren't going to rule by force like the Empire. Leia was against it. During this time Empire sympathizers begin plotting its return.

~15 years later Leia learns of the First Order. Support for her in the Senate evaporated when it became public knowledge that Vader was her father. No one believes her about the First Order but is eventually given the OK to form the Resistance to investigate and stop the First Order from growing into a legit threat.

[plastroncafe]

Revenge of the Sith had R2D2 pissing oil on enemies and burnt them. Jokes are not that uncommon in Star Wars.

I mean, the prequels alone gave us Jar Jar.

[sdp]

There's nothing wrong with Jar Jar, Star Wars has always been for kids.

[newfan]

Saw it, I didn't come on out with a 'wow that was so awesome' feeling on it, still, curious as to where they will go from here.

When it very first started I did wonder if it was more a re-boot they wanted to do than a sequel but that passed.


Luke.... not overly happy with his arc but liked Hamil's acting.
I can see why Carrie asked for more involvement with the next movie, I liked her in the parts she had, not sure about the part where she flew through space but is sensitive to the force too. Sad we won't see her again.

Definitely agreed there would be more to Rey, so, Ren's equal in light. Should Snoke have seen Ren's intentions to kill him, maybe is was showing strength in Rens part or Blindness of Snokes? Palpatine had blindness with Vader, he didn't expect him to choose Luke.

On a smaller note.. Yoda.... I did wonder if they would go back to puppet yoda, I liked the look of Yoda in the old movies compared with the GCI, his face was slightly different, I was pleased to see him with his old look.

[TigerClaw]

I thought it was amazing, I don't get why some fans were hating on it.

[TigerClaw]

I recently realized that purple hair woman Vice Admiral Amilyn Holdo was the woman from Jurassic Park! :tlol: No wonder she looks familiar. Iconic. :tlove::lol:
Yep, that was Laura Dern.

[sdp]

I thought it was amazing, I don't get why some fans were hating on it.

That's because you're the Steve Wozniak and Stan Lee of the Drome, you like everything and only have positive thoughts about anything released or announced.

[Andrew NDB]

That's because you're the Steve Wozniak and Stan Lee of the Drome, you like everything and only have positive thoughts about anything released or announced.

Or the Kevin Eastman.

[Sumac]

I never stop being amazed at stupidity and hypocrisy of some people.

I haven't watched the movie, but apparently it has ended up very divisive.
And some people absolutely believe that everyone who dislike this movie "old school un****able nerds-fanboys" and that all negative scores this movie receive from the Internet is apparently 4Chan's campaign to ruin scores of the movie.

I just can't...it's like people lose their brains when it comes to stuff like this.

[Vegita-San]

I just can't...it's like people lose their brains when it comes to stuff like this.

even movies have become very political. you can't just like or dislike anything anymore. it has to be extreme one side, or extreme the other.

[dl316bh]

even movies have become very political.
Movies have always been political.

[Vegita-San]

not to the insane levels of recent years...

[Andrew NDB]

Question: what happened to the other Knights of Ren? Did they become Snoke's guards? We didn't hear any mention of them in this movie.

[NinjaPug]

And some people absolutely believe that everyone who dislike this movie "old school un****able nerds-fanboys" and that all negative scores this movie receive from the Internet is apparently 4Chan's campaign to ruin scores of the movie.

I just can't...it's like people lose their brains when it comes to stuff like this.

Who said that the only people who dislike the movie are "old school un****able nerds-fanboys"?

Why do you think the online audience scores are drastically lower than the non-online ones?

[Andrew NDB]

Question: what happened to the other Knights of Ren? Did they become Snoke's guards? We didn't hear any mention of them in this movie.

And come to think of it... wait a minute. We saw Kylo WITH the Knights of Ren in the TFA flashback, destroying the Jedi temple, didn't we?

The flashbacks in TLJ, we see Luke contemplating killing Kylo, Kylo bringing down his bedroom onto Luke, and Luke emerging from the bedroom's rubble to see the temple destroyed.

That can't be right. Where did the Knights of Ren come from? Surely they weren't already there at the temple, and it wouldn't be like Kylo would already have his costume.