Star Wars Episode 8

[Andrew NDB]

What makes Rey different is she seems to want to stay in the middle. To embrace both the light and the dark. And I think that's interesting.

Where are you getting her "embracing the dark"? I mean, I'm sure she will, but what did she do in TLJ like that?

[plastroncafe]

Where are you getting her "embracing the dark"? I mean, I'm sure she will, but what did she do in TLJ like that?


when she specifically went to that seaweed encrusted hellmouth under the temple.
Did you read that scene differently? Because that's what it looked like to me.

[Andrew NDB]

when she specifically went to that seaweed encrusted hellmouth under the temple.
Did you read that scene differently? Because that's what it looked like to me.


It just struck me as curiosity (after IX comes out, it could be retroactively read that it was her innate Dark Side drawing her there) and to look for answers that Luke wasn't giving her. Plus see about mom and dad. When Luke went into the Dark Side part of the woods in TESB it wasn't really that much different. Luke fought himself, Rey finds a bunch of clones of herself (which is actually pretty interesting). But it wasn't like Luke defying Yoda and going there meant that Luke is going Dark Side.

[newfan]

when she specifically went to that seaweed encrusted hellmouth under the temple.
Did you read that scene differently? Because that's what it looked like to me.


I just thought she did that because of her need to see who her parents were and she thought she'd find it there. Edit: though she also wants to know what the force is, what is happening to her and Luke wasn't as enthusiastic as she'd hoped :)

[plastroncafe]

It just struck me as curiosity (after IX comes out, it could be retroactively read that it was her innate Dark Side drawing her there) and to look for answers that Luke wasn't giving her. Plus see about mom and dad. When Luke went into the Dark Side part of the woods in TESB it wasn't really that much different. Luke fought himself, Rey finds a bunch of clones of herself (which is actually pretty interesting). But it wasn't like Luke defying Yoda and going there meant that Luke is going Dark Side.

no no, when I say embracing the dark side I mean acknowledging that it exists and being okay with it. Noticing that it's there but not fearing at the way that Luke did. That's what's going to bring balance to the force.

See you in my mind the Jedi went out of their way to distance themselves from the world. They weren't allowed to love, they were taken away from their families. There's a line in the third season of avatar The Last Airbender where one of the avatars of the past tells Aang that in order to exert great change on the world he has to live in the world. He can't put his spiritual needs above the needs of the world. That's what the Jedi did.

And ultimately I believe that's why they failed.

The prophecy was supposed to be that Luke would bring balance to the force, but I don't think it was through his actions directly, but rather by his ability to influence Ray. He had to go through everything that he went through to make sure that he was the right kind of leader for the one who would actually balance the universe.

Of course this could all be hogwash, but it's the theory I'm working with at the moment.

[sdp]

I think you just watched a different movie, I did not see that at all.

Now if it's true and it were to happen that would be awesome, in fact that's what I already mentioned I thought was going to happen and I squeeled like a fangirl when you had Kylo ask her to get rid of the Jedi/Sith and all of the past that is just baggage at this point.

I just don't see it happening, the ending clearly made Kylo the bad one and Rey the light side Jedi (taking the books and all) so...

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Nor was it ever a "thing" in KotOR or elsewhere in the old EU. Jedis in the New Republic spent plenty of time with their families, and were not sequestered away nearly as much. Han and Leia' s kids all lived with their family until old enough to begin formal Jedi training (ie, build and use a lightsaber). One of the young trainees was even a royal heir on her home world, and spent time in diplomatic lessons and meetings, etc. (Her grandmother's idea- a very controlling grandma who was kind of a b**ch....)

The Old Republic was pretty similar, in fact it was a holocube archive that Luke used to base his teachings off of, and all his students (And later theirs) learned the Jedi traditions from it. Nothing was ever said about not having families or other relationships. That seems to have been a gradual shift that happened during the later part of Yoda' s time, before the Clone Wars but probably within just a few centuries. (Yoda was 900 by the time of RotJ so he might have remembered when that was not the case- but probably didn't care much.)

[Andrew NDB]

The prophecy was supposed to be that Luke would bring balance to the force,

The prophecy was that Anakin would bring balance to the Force... and he did. Before him, there was hundreds (thousands?) of Light Side users and only two Dark Side users plus whatever the hell Snoke is out there. After him, there's only one Jedi and a single Dark Side user out there. Seemed pretty balanced to me, just not in the way the Jedi Masters hoped.

Sidenote... I don't have any strong feelings about this myself, but what do you guys feel about the comparison of Obi-Wan in Episode IV vs. Luke in Episode VIII? In Episode IV, Obi-Wan has witnessed the almost total annihilation of his fellow Jedi Knights, even younglings, the failure of himself to steer his Padawan from the Dark Side (who ends up murdering untold thousands of people), a Sith Lord taking control of the Republic and the whole galaxy being turned upside down around him. In Episode VIII, when we find him Luke has been dealing with the destruction of his Jedi school and presumably the Jedi he was training there and his failure to steer Kylo from the Dark Side (and do we know for sure if Kylo even actually killed anyone?). He didn't even know about Han yet. Yet it goes like this:

Episode IV...

Leia: "Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're our only hope!"
Obi-Wan: "OK, cool. Let's go."

Episode VIII...

Rey: "Help me, Luke, you're our only hope!"
Luke: "NO! And I'm NEVER LEAVING this island!"

Why is that? It seemed like Obi-Wan should have been in a lower place than Luke, yet he was ready to rush into the fray without question.

[CyberCubed]

To be fair Jedi are not invincible superheroes (as we all know, most of the time we see them killed), so one old man is not going to be able to stop an Empire consisting of millions of soldiers, Star Destroyers, ships, Death Stars, etc.

I mean what can you do? It's like 1 man versus an entire army. Even when the heroes go to help there's obviously no way to take down everyone. As we now know, even the death of Darth Vader and Palpatine after Episode 6 didn't seem to slow down the Empire that much, they just restructured into The New Order and the wars apparently continued for 30 years without break.

[Andrew NDB]

Episode 6 didn't seem to slow down the Empire that much, they just restructured into The New Order

Every time you write that, I'm thinking...

qTlFyGwZvqA

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GoodnaturedTeemingHorsemouse-max-1mb.gif

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/c7/3e/16/c73e1636e79bb608d766c7636ad89535--nwo-wcw-new-world-order-hulk-hogan.jpg

https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-25-2014/WJ_nkP.gif

[RaphaelinSTL]

Every time you write that, I'm thinking...

qTlFyGwZvqA

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GoodnaturedTeemingHorsemouse-max-1mb.gif

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/c7/3e/16/c73e1636e79bb608d766c7636ad89535--nwo-wcw-new-world-order-hulk-hogan.jpg

https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-25-2014/WJ_nkP.gif

God damn, do I love the nWo.

This segment where Vince shows Hogan, Hall and Nash on the Titan Tron (first time being shown on WWF TV after being away in WCW for so many years) still gives me chills.
Starts at 8:26.

sHyCDUFfWRc

Sure, WWE royally neutered their run and bringing back the red and yellow due to fan support might have been too fast of a movie (I didn't care cause I was a huge Hulk Hogan mark) but at least there were cool moments for a bit in 2002.

[Andrew NDB]

https://s.faketrumptweet.com/jbh2tfes_1i8mtbl_hn4v0i.png

[plastroncafe]

Why is that? It seemed like Obi-Wan should have been in a lower place than Luke, yet he was ready to rush into the fray without question.

I don't really know that it's fair to compare how people deal with trauma on an individual level.

Perhaps Obi Wan felt beholden to Padme, and camped next to his ex-padawan's estranged son out of a sense of duty to his mother? Or maybe he did so because he knew he'd be the only one to either end Luke or raise him correctly if the time came.

But then he got a message from Padme's daughter, via her son.
And he resignedly went along knowing that there's no stopping the Force when it decides to act.

I think that's different than Luke's situation, which is a bit more like Yoda's.

[ProactiveMan]

I don't really know that it's fair to compare how people deal with trauma on an individual level.

Perhaps Obi Wan felt beholden to Padme, and camped next to his ex-padawan's estranged son out of a sense of duty to his mother? Or maybe he did so because he knew he'd be the only one to either end Luke or raise him correctly if the time came.

But then he got a message from Padme's daughter, via her son.
And he resignedly went along knowing that there's no stopping the Force when it decides to act.

I think that's different than Luke's situation, which is a bit more like Yoda's.
One of the things I liked a lot in Ep.8 is when Yoda chides Luke because he has never really mastered situational awareness. His mind is always in the future, and not enough in the here and now. Obi Wan didn’t have that problem – maybe the opposite. He decided to train Luke because he suddenly had an opportunity to do so. If R2 had made it to Obi Wan without being captured and sold, Obi Wan probably would have left on his own. He tried to give Luke the lightsabre in the past, but Uncle Owen told him the GTFO, and it doesn’t seem like he made any further attempts.

Obi Wan probably didn’t think too hard about the consequences of training Luke, and he didn’t let his past mistakes dissuade him. He just assessed the situation he was in and went with it. When Rey shows up, Luke can only see potential disaster, influenced by his memory of past disasters. He’s not in the moment, and he lets his fear of the future prevent him from engaging, and then shuts himself off.

[CyberCubed]

You know I'm surprised we're only one movie left in this new trilogy and there's no big new romance like Han/Leia or Anakin/Padme in the series. I mean unless you count Finn and the Asian girl...if that goes anywhere.

Rey has no real love interest, besides the tension with Kylo Ren. Finn seems to view Rey as a friend and the Asian girl as a "fangirl." Poe is...Poe.

Kinda surprised. With a new trilogy featuring a female lead I thought for sure we'd get a big new romance/pairing eventually, but it doesn't seem to be happening.

[Andrew NDB]

You know I'm surprised we're only one movie left in this new trilogy and there's no big new romance like Han/Leia or Anakin/Padme in the series. I mean unless you count Finn and the Asian girl...if that goes anywhere.

Rey has no real love interest, besides the tension with Kylo Ren. Finn seems to view Rey as a friend and the Asian girl as a "fangirl." Poe is...Poe.

That is strange. I would have expected some sort of love story to develop by now. A love story in SW is about as important as all of the other key elements. I mean, it doesn't matter who has the love story... but there kind of needs to be one.

[plastroncafe]

Does there though?
Does there really?

[ProactiveMan]

I don't think it's necessary.

They tried to do something with Finn and Rose. It didn't turn out very well though.

Maybe Phasma and Chewie could get something going and have some 9 foot children.

[Sumac]

Does there though?
Does there really?
Does it mane?
Does it blend?
:roll:

[Andrew NDB]

Does there though?
Does there really?

In a legacy, numbered Star Wars trilogy I would venture that yes. Yes, it does. Some kind of romance. Just because romance might not be your cup of tea doesn't mean it isn't an integral part of the regular saga.

Ignoring the ham-fisted but necessary romance of the PT, what would the OT be like with no romance?

[plastroncafe]

Maybe Phasma and Chewie could get something going and have some 9 foot children.

No way, man. That's how we get an updated Star Wars Christmas Special.

...

Or wait, a love triangle with Maz.
Damnation, the former is horrific, but the latter is temping.

[CyberCubed]

Remember those female shippers who thought Finn and Poe were going to become gay homosexual lovers? :lol:

To be fair, Poe's, "So...how did you two meet?" to Finn and Rose sounded like a hint of jealousy. ;)

[Allio]

Does there though?
Does there really?

it is fairly common in Space operas.

[plastroncafe]

it is fairly common in Space operas.

The Last Jedi felt like a real departure from Space Opera to me.
I've been describing the feeling of genre shift as similar to the one I felt watching Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

The characters of the 1940s pulp novel were there, but they were in a 1950s B movie.

It's kind of like that.

[Shark_Blade]

Remember those female shippers who thought Finn and Poe were going to become gay homosexual lovers? :lol:

To be fair, Poe's, "So...how did you two meet?" to Finn and Rose sounded like a hint of jealousy. ;)

Rey & Rose when asked if they prefer to date either Finn or Poe:

https://i.imgur.com/d82melA.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/G3Rc2sN.jpg

The gay ship is sailing strong. :lol:

https://i.imgur.com/Q890i4g.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/nKIlwHe.jpg

[sdp]

The first interaction of Poe/Finn was fairly "friendly", I'd say the gay ship has as much fire as it did in TFA if we don't count the horrible asian/finn romance.

And Rey did give a disappointed/jealous look when she sees Finn with the asian girl.

I guess since Rey isn't a Skywalker they could ship her with Kylo if he becomes good and they can more Skywalker babies for Episode X after the Rian trilogy ends.

[victory_angel]

Snoke is actually an Acronym for “Sith No One Knew Existed” so while he is dead in so far. Perhaps there is more to him in the grand scheme that could be revealed in the next installment or some of the world building info.

One thing I remember Nostalgia critic said in his “Sibling Rivalry-review” of this film was George Lucas liked his stories to rhyme.

Meaning the first story of each trillogy will parallel each other, but there will be something different with each one.

For example- New Hope episode six the start of the Star Wars Universe.

Farm Boy acquires two robots and meets up with an old hermit and receive a message from a princess calling them to arms against an evil empire. The old hermit reveals he is one of the last remaining of an ancient order. Together the two of them join forces with a criminal who can smuggle them to the princesses kingdom only to find they captured by the forces of an Evil empire. The farm boy is revealed to have the ability to harnus the same power as the old hermit and so the hermit teaches him how to control it. The Farm Boy and Criminal save the princess while the hermit sacrifices himself fighting his former student who has become the greatest champion of the evil empire. The Criminal feels he has done what he had promised but grows a conscience and returns when his companions need him most. While the Farm boy uses the awakening power in him to destroy the great weapon of the evil empire and save the day.

Prequel- Phantom Menace

Two warriors are infiltrating an evil organization who is about to lay an invasion upon a peaceful kingdom. The two are discovered and escape to land the peaceful kingdom resides in. They discover a village idiot who can guide them to the kingdom and they warn the reigning monarch of the pending attack. The monarch believes them and agrees to let the two warriors take her and her handmaidens out of danger so they can reach a greater kingdom to seek assistance. Their transport is attacked and they are forced to take refuge in an small village in the middle of nowhere. It is here they meet a young slave boy who is discovered to have an ability that is similar to the two warriors. The elder of the two warriors bids for the boy and earns him his freedom before the group continues the journey to the great kingdom. They take the boy to the councel of their order to have him tested and they agree he is skilled enough to be trained, but they have reservations that make them feel he is unsuitable. Undaunted the elder warrior takes it upon himself to train the boy in the ways of the order. Disappointed by the corruption and lack of responce towards her plite the monarch of the peaceful kingdom wants to return home to defend her people.
The group arrive in the peaceful kingdom, one of the handmaidens reveals that she was actually the monarch all along and persuades help from the people the village idiot is from. The slave boy takes shelter and destroys the enemy fighters by accident thus winning the day.

-Sequel-The Force Awakens

A slave girl with no identity meets up with a robot and deserter from the new evil empire. The robot carries valuable information about a legendary warrior of a monastic order. Together they try to bring the robot and its information to rebellion. On the way they meet the Criminal that helped in the battle against the evil empire, he at first wants nothing to do with the girl and her journey but is convinced to help them reach where they must go. On the way the girl gets captured by the champion of the new evil empire because it’s revealed she has a power that is just like the legendary warriors. In an effort to stop the enemies great weapon, the defector and the criminal attempt to enter it and destroy it from within and save the girl in the process. The Criminal confronts the Champion of the New Evil empire who turns out to be his son. The Criminal tries to get his son to come back to the side of good. The Champion at first seems to consider returning but ends up killing his father. The girl and the defector fight him and defeat him as they try to escape. The girl finally learns where the legendary warrior is and goes off to seek his assistance in training her.

Since the Return of the Jedi ends with Darth Vador killing his master, and Revenge of the Sith ends with Obi Wan mortally wounding Anakin who had ceased to be his student at this point. Maybe the next one would have Snoke kill Kylo Ren. Or maybe Hux since he has a rivalry with Kylo and he knows Kylo is unstable. Perhaps he would find an opening in Kylo’s power and eliminate him so he would have brief control of the First Order before it comes crashing around him.

[CyberCubed]

Prequel- Phantom Menis


LOL, this title made me laugh. Dude, it's spelled "menace."

[Sumac]

LOL, this title made me laugh. Dude, it's spelled "menace."
Not "Penace"? :P

[victory_angel]

LOL, this title made me laugh. Dude, it's spelled "menace."

Thank you for the correction cubed. By the way, people might find this discussion interesting.

dHHixjzrT40

[Shark_Blade]

Mark Hamill explains his creative differences with Rian Johnson in The Last Jedi: 'He's not my Luke Skywalker'

http://uproxx.com/hitfix/mark-hamill-the-last-jedi-rian-johnson-hes-not-my-luke-skywalker-creative-differences/

Leading up to the release of The Last Jedi, whispers of creative differences between Mark Hamill and director Rian Johnson had Star Wars fans scratching their heads. What could’ve possibly gone sideways for Luke Skywalker himself to question the direction of his grand return? Now that the movie has hit theaters, we know. Luke Skywalker is broken. He’s given up on the Jedi, and possibly even the Force. To put it simply, Hamill didn’t agree with Luke turning his back on the Resistance and those he loved due to a wild-eyed, late-night freakout on the broad-chested Kylo Ren.

Now Hamill has finally explained his issues with Johnson’s take on an old, grizzled Luke Skywalker during a press event, saying that George Lucas would’ve never taken this dark turn.

“I said to Rian: ‘Jedis don’t give up. I mean even if he had a problem he would maybe take a year to try and regroup, but if he made a mistake he would try and right that wrong.’ So right there we had a fundamental difference, but it’s not my story anymore. It’s somebody else’s story, and Rian needed me to be a certain way to make the ending effective. That’s the crux of my problem. Luke would never say that. I’m sorry. Well in this version, see I’m talking about the George Lucas Star Wars. This is the next generation of Star Wars, so I almost had to think of Luke as another character. Maybe he is Jake Skywalker.

He’s not my Luke Skywalker, but I had to do what Rian wanted me to do because it serves the story well, but listen, I still haven’t accepted it completely. But it’s only a movie. I hope people like it. I hope they don’t get upset, and I came to really believe that Rian was the exact man that they need for this job.”

At least Hamill agrees that the painful roads Luke Skywalker had to go down were a necessary evil in order to keep Star Wars moving forward. It’s no longer about the Skywalkers, and when you zoom out, it never really was. The dark and the light has been battling for a millennia before a little boy tried spinning because it was a good trick, and it will be battling for a millennia after that boy’s grandson drank green milk from a lazy alien’s teet.

[Vegita-San]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/2017/12/22/last-jedi-daily-grosses-are-swiftly-collapsing-the-worst-holds-of-all-9-star-wars-movies/#1733e6bf355c

worse than justice league?

[Andrew NDB]

Remember those female shippers who thought Finn and Poe were going to become gay homosexual lovers? :lol:

To be fair, Poe's, "So...how did you two meet?" to Finn and Rose sounded like a hint of jealousy. ;)

I don't think the jury is entirely out on that just yet.

[newfan]

Poe and Rey even seemed to like each other when they met, not sure where they plan to go with these suggestions, there's a few.

[Andrew NDB]

Poe and Rey even seemed to like each other when they met

I got zero romantic vibes between them in TFA. The "I'm going to wear your jacket, even into the next movie" between Finn and Poe is the only dubious thing. If some dude tried to give me his jacket I'd tell him to bugger off.

Probably Abrams created (in addition to scene-for-scene recreating IV) an elaborate "Choose your own adventure" in VII for the next writer/director team on VIII. "Do you want a GAY romance? Here is an option." "Do you want a SITH OVERLORD called Snoke? Here he is, blank canvas. Make him Plagueis or Palpatine's clone or something." "Do you want Luke Skywalker, Jedi Supermaster going all out, or Luke Skywalker, suicide watch master? You decide what happens next!" "How did Maz get Luke's lightsaber? WHO KNOWS? I don't. You can fill in the blank."

That sort of thing.

[newfan]

I got zero romantic vibes between them in TFA. The "I'm going to wear your jacket, even into the next movie" between Finn and Poe is the only dubious thing. If some dude tried to give me his jacket I'd tell him to bugger off.

Probably Abrams created (in addition to scene-for-scene recreating IV) an elaborate "Choose your own adventure" in VII for the next writer/director team on VIII. "Do you want a GAY romance? Here is an option." "Do you want a SITH OVERLORD called Snoke? Here he is, blank canvas. Make him Plagueis or Palpatine's clone or something." "Do you want Luke Skywalker, Jedi Supermaster going all out? You decide what happens next!" "How did Maz get Luke's lightsaber? WHO KNOWS? I don't. You can fill in the blank."

That sort of thing.

I didn't pick up chemistry between Poe and Fin, not the sexual type, they just seemed to hit it off as buddies, Fin was interested in Rey... as Ren seems to be, more for 'Force' reasons though...then Poe looked like he liked her when they met... (I may be seeing that wrong but that could be cause for a rift with the two guys)... and of course we have rose to fit in here too.
I don't feel invested enough in any of them to care too much at the moment.

[Andrew NDB]

I didn't pick up chemistry between Poe and Fin, not the sexual type, they just seemed to hit it off as buddies,

Same here, but it was absolutely, 100% set up by Abrams in a way to be like, "Look, I'm not actually going to do a gay romance in my Star Wars movie... but hey, whoever directs VIII: here's a perfect setup for one!" Then he could claim credit for creating a gay Star Wars character without actually having to make a movie with gay stuff in it.

I feel like JJ will chickenshit out of doing anything with it in IX, though, since he never intended to actually stick around and do VIII or IX. I'm OK with that. Give Finn the Asian chick.

[newfan]

Same here, but it was absolutely, 100% set up by Abrams in a way to be like, "Look, I'm not actually going to do a gay romance in my Star Wars movie... but hey, whoever directs VIII: here's a perfect setup for one!"

I feel like JJ will chickenshit out of doing anything with it in IX, though, since he never intended to actually stick around and do VIII or IX. I'm OK with that. Give Finn the Asian chick.

Yeah I can see there was enough to encourage a ship or possibilities... there just seems to be a few possibilities with characters so far.

[Vegita-San]

I don't think the jury is entirely out on that just yet.

please god just no. the straight romances are boring/goofy enough. can't guys just be friends anymore?

smh

[sdp]

I'll be disappointed if Rey/Finn don't get together in the end. As "progressive" as people claim to be there is still plenty of racism and having an interracial ship in Star Wars is just not going to happen. People will shield their views with "What's wrong with a woman not having a romantic interest" but the way Finn has been treated shows that the racists who were making a big fuzz about Finn in TFA have indeed influenced what they might've originally planned for him. Why couldn't both Finn and Rey be Jedi?

I love how "geek" culture news blogs keep trying to swing the narrative to "the people who don't like it are wrong", no shame. But hilarious to watch.

Still not crazy Finn was a storm trooper either, I don't buy the "there are no more clones", I expect and want all storm troopers to still be Temuera Morrison :D

[Andrew NDB]

please god just no. the straight romances are boring/goofy enough. can't guys just be friends anymore?

Nope, this galaxy that's long ago and far, far away needs to realign itself and adhere to all sensibilities of 2017 Earth.

Maybe JJ will compromise and it will be revealed that Rose was born male.

[sdp]

Stop Andrew, you're getting Plastron wet.

[Spike Spiegel]

Maybe JJ will compromise and it will be revealed that Rose was born male.

That's the twist for IX, clearly.

She does have a bit of a lantern jaw.

[CyberCubed]

I liked her sister who dies in the beginning of the movie actress wise more than Rose. I think their roles should have been reversed, Rose is too chubby and that's why Finn and the audience don't take her seriously. On the other hand if it were her sister, who seemed a lot more attractive, I think people would be more for the Finn/Rose romance. And before anyone asks, I'm being completely serious.

[plastroncafe]

No one cares about your boners.

[Spike Spiegel]

No one cares about your boners.

https://i.giphy.com/media/3oEduNEbTtAHABX0dy/giphy-facebook_s.jpg

[ZariusTwo]

Robert Garcia thought Phantom Menace was better

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/12/22/long-beach-mayor-phantom-menace-better-last-jedi/

[CyberCubed]

Regarding Luke, I have no idea why so many people on the internet are so bothered by his "death" scene. It's like some people actually wanted Kylo Ren to kill him instead, which would be beyond redundant (since he already killed Han), as well as a rehash of Obi-wan Vs. Vader.

While I wish Luke did just a *little more* in the movie, he was actually absent throughout almost all of it, I was pretty happy with what we got. It does seem like he exhausted his life energy by projecting himself lightyears away on Crait and whatever energy it takes to do that.

Since it's 100% obvious he'll be in Episode 9 as a Force Ghost anyway, I don't see why people are bothered. He may even have a bigger role than any force ghost ever had before. It seems to me a lot of young fans, people in their early 20's or teens didn't even get what Luke's role was supposed to be in the movie. It's almost like some wanted him to be some Jedi superhero or something, rather than a old beaten disgruntled war veteran as well as passing the torch to the next generation.

[Spike Spiegel]

It's almost like some wanted him to be some Jedi superhero or something, rather than a old beaten disgruntled war veteran as well as passing the torch to the next generation.

The beauty of your posts is that I can never tell when you are trolling and when you aren't. Well done, sir.

[Vegita-San]

The beauty of your posts is that I can never tell when you are trolling and when you aren't. Well done, sir.

Too easy a setup for the anti cube comment. i'll let this one pass..it's the holidays.

[Andrew NDB]

Regarding Luke, I have no idea why so many people on the internet are so bothered by his "death" scene. It's like some people actually wanted Kylo Ren to kill him instead, which would be beyond redundant (since he already killed Han), as well as a rehash of Obi-wan Vs. Vader.

There's many things they could have done aside from Kylo killing Luke. Kylo could have been beaten into a retreat, maybe Luke had to stop fighting Kylo to go and save Finn or Leia at a critical moment. Plenty of options. It's called writing.

[Vegita-San]

There's many things they could have done aside from Kylo killing Luke. Kylo could have been beaten into a retreat, maybe Luke had to stop fighting Kylo to go and save Finn or Leia at a critical moment. Plenty of options. It's called writing.

would have made far too much sense.

gotta dumb things down and keep things simple for the new chinese audience, after all...

[Andrew NDB]

gotta dumb things down and keep things simple for the new chinese audience, after all...

That's true.

I wonder if the Chinese version of TLJ cuts out the Yoda Force Ghost scene.

[CyberCubed]

Luke dying by staring up as the sun was passing the clouds was one of the most subtle and deep moments in Star Wars history. While the true reason for his death was as I said, likely the strain or energy drain of projecting himself light years across space on a different planet, they did it in such a nuanced and subtle way that only those who are intellectually stimulated will be able to appreciate the intricacies.

I wouldn't have it any other way. I assume Luke was always intended to die in Episode 8, so it wouldn't make sense for him to keep Kylo Ren at bay and then everyone escape, and them him still being fine on his island. Better than another bland heroic death seen in any action movie ever, or a retread of Obi-wan Vs. Darth Vader. And I'm willing to bet Force Ghost Luke will have a much bigger role in Episode 9 than either Yoda or Obi-wan did.

Luke Skywalker was one of the best handled parts of Episode 8. I do wish he got one more moment of "awesome" before he went, but I appreciate the direction Rian Johnson went with him. This was movie making history that people will talk about for decades to come.

[Spike Spiegel]

they did it in such a nuanced and subtle way that only those who are intellectually stimulated will be able to appreciate the intricacies.


https://vmp.imgix.net/original_images/2016_09_american-psycho.jpg?auto=format&w=850&h=850

[Sumac]

No one cares about your boners.
But we care about yours! :tgrin:

Rotten Tomatoes stated that low audience score of the movie is NOT the result of bot-troll attacks. (http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2017/12/rotten-tomatoes-the-last-jedi-low-audience-score)
Those fans of the movie, who claimed that everyone who dislike, it are neckbeard nerds or bots working for world-wide council of evil known as 4Chan, now need to find some other explanation for the low audience score.

Because, you know, it can not be that a lot of people didn't enjoy the movie!! There always should be a conspiracy and a nebulous REASON tied to modern insanity called "politics" why people do this or that.

[Allio]

they did it in such a nuanced and subtle way that only those who are intellectually stimulated will be able to appreciate the intricacies.


How did you pick up on it?

[Utrommaniac]

I just got back from it

People over blew the presence of the Porgs. I think they had like...roughly two minutes of screentime? Still. I would like a plush :P

I'm now on the good ship FinnxRose (or whatever the kids are going to call it) and it can send Reylo straight to hell where it belongs

Yoda's appearance was great

As was Luke's...becoming one with the Force

That one woman's enormous nose was frankly a little scary.

Poe's replacement as Admiral looked like she walked off the set of Hunger Games

Why wasn't there at least one Hutt at the Evil Casino

Kylo Ren still sucks as a person

Snoke was underwhelming and just seemed like a "mustache twirler" villain...completely hairless though he may be.

AND HOW WILL WE GET THE BROOM CHILD INTO THE NEXT MOVIE?

[Andrew NDB]

Here's a possibly geeky nitpick/possibly not about 7 and 8, Snoke in particular...

OK, so the Republic are aware the Sith are evil, were all defeated in some war 500 years before Episode I, right? Palpatine's rise to power, the only people who are aware he's a Sith are the Jedi, who are immediately killed or driven into exile. "By the way, I'm a Sith Lord!" was never a part of his "I'm creating an Empire!" speech, nor would I believe that would have ever come up afterward. He went to the trouble of explaining his change in appearance and sudden penchant for big black hooded robes were to cover up his injuries from Windu. Presumably if it was known he was a Sith he would have faced some pretty strong opposition in the Senate in the 20 years between Episode III and IV. Granted, the high-ranking Imperials in that Death Star room in IV knew ("Your Emperor's sorcerer's ways!")... but surely not the whole of the Empire knew? These were just carry-overs from the Republic, people just doing a job. "The Sith are good!" was not a part of the Emperor's New Order (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/New_Order) or anything... so the Sith presumably remained a scary, villainous thing in the eyes of all before, during, and after the Empire, right?

So 30 years later, a very, very obvious... if not a Sith outright, then certainly super Dark Side user comes along. Snoke. I mean, he's not even trying to hide it remotely. The whole First Order just forms around this guy right away, enthusiastically? Rally around him to such a degree that apparently the First Order even outnumber and outgun the fledgling New Republic in 8? This doesn't compute. If that were to happen, this Snoke guy would have had to have been super charismatic, even more savvy and conniving than Palpatine. What a guy that must have been.

So let's just kill him and not even get into any of it? Again, lame. Not clever, just lame.

[Utrommaniac]

I'm not really sure there was much explanation for Darth Sidious either? Except Snoke is just a lot more dubious and confusing (and still no answers for what the heck happened to his face.)

[Shark_Blade]

Snoke is just a lot more dubious and confusing (and still no answers for what the heck happened to his face.)

He's just born ugly like the hunchback of Notre Dame. Probably.

[Vegita-San]

something I saw elsewhere... does this seem mostly true? interesting thought.

<<<Isn't it amazing that a lot of people who love TLJ are hyper critical of the OT to try and justify TLJ'S flaws. The OT has stood the test of time. In ten years I sincerely doubt TLJ will hold up so well, or be remembered fondly. >>>

[plastroncafe]

So let's just kill him and not even get into any of it? Again, lame. Not clever, just lame.

Are you talking about narratively, or within the confines of the story?
Because...just outright killing a guy like that usually isn't a great idea. All you do is make him a martyr to the cause.

That's kind of what Obi Wan said in the first movie.

[Vegita-San]

forbes needs to get its act together.

does disney wars need saving, or is it doing ok? gotta decide on one narrative or the other!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/2017/12/23/the-audience-strikes-back-last-jedis-77-fri-to-fri-plunge-is-worst-ever-for-a-star-wars-pic/#1b2227c557fa

[Andrew NDB]

I'm not really sure there was much explanation for Darth Sidious either? Except Snoke is just a lot more dubious and confusing (and still no answers for what the heck happened to his face.)

We know enough about Sidious. We know at some point in the past he was Darth Plagueis' pupil, then became a senator on Naboo. We know he is carrying on the Sith tradition, as was explained. We don't know anything else, but we know enough to get a handle on him. We don't on Snoke. It's like TMNT 2014, with the Turtles and Splinter hating Shredder for reasons unknown, then he "dies" before they even bothered to give him any kind of backstory or motivation.

My point is, how did a blatantly "Out" Dark Side user like Snoke take power in the First Order, when Palpatine kept that stuff under wraps the whole time, all the way to his death? Who would knowingly follow someone evil?

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Here's a possibly geeky nitpick/possibly not about 7 and 8, Snoke in particular...

OK, so the Republic are aware the Sith are evil, were all defeated in some war 500 years before Episode I, right? Palpatine's rise to power, the only people who are aware he's a Sith are the Jedi, who are immediately killed or driven into exile. "By the way, I'm a Sith Lord!" was never a part of his "I'm creating an Empire!" speech, nor would I believe that would have ever come up afterward. He went to the trouble of explaining his change in appearance and sudden penchant for big black hooded robes were to cover up his injuries from Windu. Presumably if it was known he was a Sith he would have faced some pretty strong opposition in the Senate in the 20 years between Episode III and IV. Granted, the high-ranking Imperials in that Death Star room in IV knew ("Your Emperor's sorcerer's ways!")... but surely not the whole of the Empire knew? These were just carry-overs from the Republic, people just doing a job. "The Sith are good!" was not a part of the Emperor's New Order (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/New_Order) or anything... so the Sith presumably remained a scary, villainous thing in the eyes of all before, during, and after the Empire, right?

So 30 years later, a very, very obvious... if not a Sith outright, then certainly super Dark Side user comes along. Snoke. I mean, he's not even trying to hide it remotely. The whole First Order just forms around this guy right away, enthusiastically? Rally around him to such a degree that apparently the First Order even outnumber and outgun the fledgling New Republic in 8? This doesn't compute. If that were to happen, this Snoke guy would have had to have been super charismatic, even more savvy and conniving than Palpatine. What a guy that must have been.

So let's just kill him and not even get into any of it? Again, lame. Not clever, just lame.

We know enough about Sidious. We know at some point in the past he was Darth Plagueis' pupil, then became a senator on Naboo. We know he is carrying on the Sith tradition, as was explained. We don't know anything else, but we know enough to get a handle on him. We don't on Snoke. It's like TMNT 2014, with the Turtles and Splinter hating Shredder for reasons unknown, then he "dies" before they even bothered to give him any kind of backstory or motivation.

My point is, how did a blatantly "Out" Dark Side user like Snoke take power in the First Order, when Palpatine kept that stuff under wraps the whole time, all the way to his death? Who would knowingly follow someone evil?


And all of this is yet one more reason I feel that axing the old EU material in favor of- THIS- was a HUGE mistake of the highest order. I can maybe forgive Han's death, but the villains have been so underwhelming and inexplicable so far, that it makes me sad for what we COULD have had instead. Give me Thrawn and /Joruus over spoiled entitled brat Kylo and Snoke any day. While I was okay with Finn, Rey and Poe in 7, I'm not sure if I care for the narrative they are building for these new heroes. It all just seems so shallow and weak.

[Vegita-San]

And all of this is yet one more reason I feel that axing the old EU material in favor of- THIS- was a HUGE mistake of the highest order. I can maybe forgive Han's death, but the villains have been so underwhelming and inexplicable so far, that it makes me sad for what we COULD have had instead. Give me Thrawn and /Joruus over spoiled entitled brat Kylo and Snoke any day. While I was okay with Finn, Rey and Poe in 7, I'm not sure if I care for the narrative they are building for these new heroes. It all just seems so shallow and weak.

Bingo.

Star wars has ALWAYS started off at a jumping point where you don't know alot of what is going on. At least this way, Disney doesn't have to work out alot of the back story, because it was all done in the books! You don't really need to know who mara jade is. just do some throw away dialogue and boom, explained in 5 seconds.

As bad as some of the books where, the characters themselves where mostly LIKEABLE. and legends in there own right without having stepped foot on screen.

But that was the first nail in the coffin for disney wars. How they mis handled all the new stuff from books to movies was the second.

Despite TFA being a retread, I thought the new characters could be likeable if they worked some things out. All that went out the window with this movie. I didn't care if finn died. I didn't care what happened to rey. Poe was useless..

sigh. total mess.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Actually, Mara Jade explained to Luke pretty clearly who she was when they were on the planet with the Yreslamari(sp?) aka "Force-null" lizards. When they were forced to work together to survive, she told him the story of how the Emperor raised and trained her personally as his "Hand" and how her entire destiny was to kill him. Her backstory is right there in the story. Thrawn's was pretty well spelled out, too, as the only non-human Grand Admiral (and one of the few non-human high-ranked officers) in the Empire. The story of C'Boath was told over the course of the trilogy, and why he was so unstable was explained early on. All well-fleshed, interesting characters whom were not just one-dimensional retreads of the OT characters with different names and appearances. (And the books introduced a much richer history between them and the OT, which made for a great deal better storytelling opportunities.)

That said, it would have to be the RIGHT set of books/stories to really work. A lot of the Jedi Academy/ Young Jedi Knights series would work if condensed a bit, like the Jacen/Jaina, Lowbacca, and Tenel Kaa relationships, the death of Chewie in Vector Prime (which was what made me put that book down and leave it unfinished, it was just so darn depressing that I couldn't read past it, in spite of how great a scene it was) and some other really great moments that would have been SOOO much better than the current "canon". As much as I love SW, the new movies just don't feel like they belong to the same universe in some ways.

[CyberCubed]

Your average fan or people who never read the EU like myself were in no way going to be able to digest that amount of information in a single movie. Especially since Luke/Han/Leia are old now whereas a lot of the events of the EU especially with their kids happened right after and only a few decades after Episode 6...not 30+ years later.

It doesn't make sense to keep that baggage when most people never read comics/novels, etc. The only way this would have worked is if we got a new trilogy with the original cast back in the 90's, when Mark Hammil, Harrison Ford, etc. were only a decade older after Episode 6 came out in 1983, but of course George Lucas was too busy planning and making the prequels at the time.

[Shark_Blade]

Okay, 2 questions.

1) Can someone explain to me why Luke did the hologram thing instead of just facing Kylo in person?

He's planning to die anyway why waste so much energy? Just to prove he's better than any Jedi ever? Yeah I know Luke's a drama queen but still...

I can't even, why what.

2) I think I finally grasp why Vice Admiral Holdo didn't tell Poe her plan. She didn't trust the rogue captain from the start but it doesn't make any sense why she still won't tell him when the mutiny happened...why? Cause she's so egotistical?


And I saw the Jedi manuals were brought onboard the Milennium Falcon by Rey (it's when Finn was rummaging the drawers that we saw the books). Kinda pointless that Yoda and Luke burnt down that empty tree then...

[AT-Man]

Okay, 2 questions.

1) Can someone explain to me why Luke did the hologram thing instead of just facing Kylo in person?

He's planning to die anyway why waste so much energy? Just to prove he's better than any Jedi ever? Yeah I know Luke's a drama queen but still...

I can't even, why what.


I believe he didn't want Kylo to actually kill him. He practically denied Kylo his revenge.

[Andrew NDB]

Your average fan or people who never read the EU like myself were in no way going to be able to digest that amount of information in a single movie. Especially since Luke/Han/Leia are old now whereas a lot of the events of the EU especially with their kids happened right after and only a few decades after Episode 6...not 30+ years later.

It doesn't make sense to keep that baggage when most people never read comics/novels, etc. The only way this would have worked is if we got a new trilogy with the original cast back in the 90's, when Mark Hammil, Harrison Ford, etc. were only a decade older after Episode 6 came out in 1983, but of course George Lucas was too busy planning and making the prequels at the time.

Yes, let's not mistake criticism of 8 as "this is why the EU should have stood!" It shouldn't have.

[sdp]

Lucas' VII-IX would've ignored all the stuff from the EU anyhow, too much had happened. But I guess as always he would've kept the tier canons. The difference is the EU would've had some DC level retcon to make it fit.

They did it when the prequels happened and they would've done it again even if it was a book about how "things are messed up but this special stone can change some of the past events" and voila you can justify any kids not being born or whatever into the already convoluted EU.

I wonder how Lucas feels about hiring Kathleen Keneddy, she trusted Star Wars on her and she scrapped his Ep. VII - IX. I'm guessing he chose her because he thought she'd do his projects justice but it backfired. She was highly respected in the Jurassic Park fandom so I thought she'd be a good selection.

This Sequel Trilogy makes me feel exactly how those fans who hated the Prequel Trilogy, ironic. But despite its flaws to me it was only Ep. III that did damage to a lot of what was already set up in the OT. While here we're 2 movies in and I don't see a way for the last movie to fix things.

[Vegita-San]

Actually, Mara Jade explained to Luke pretty clearly who she was when they were on the planet with the Yreslamari(sp?) aka "Force-null" lizards. When they were forced to work together to survive, she told him the story of how the Emperor raised and trained her personally as his "Hand" and how her entire destiny was to kill him. Her backstory is right there in the story. Thrawn's was pretty well spelled out, too, as the only non-human Grand Admiral (and one of the few non-human high-ranked officers) in the Empire. The story of C'Boath was told over the course of the trilogy, and why he was so unstable was explained early on. All well-fleshed, interesting characters whom were not just one-dimensional retreads of the OT characters with different names and appearances. (And the books introduced a much richer history between them and the OT, which made for a great deal better storytelling opportunities.)

That said, it would have to be the RIGHT set of books/stories to really work. A lot of the Jedi Academy/ Young Jedi Knights series would work if condensed a bit, like the Jacen/Jaina, Lowbacca, and Tenel Kaa relationships, the death of Chewie in Vector Prime (which was what made me put that book down and leave it unfinished, it was just so darn depressing that I couldn't read past it, in spite of how great a scene it was) and some other really great moments that would have been SOOO much better than the current "canon". As much as I love SW, the new movies just don't feel like they belong to the same universe in some ways.

Yep, agreed.

I meant explained to the movie audience who didn't know who mara jade was. all the book history could be explained in exposition.

I would have liked to see a live action tenal ka, or jaina. Or Corran horn. Or Iella.

All the work was already done for them. but, IMHO, that would mean KK would have to respect other peoples accomplishments and work off of them rather than create her own. So, she threw them all out in hopes they could do better.

[CyberCubed]

This Sequel Trilogy makes me feel exactly how those fans who hated the Prequel Trilogy, ironic. But despite its flaws to me it was only Ep. III that did damage to a lot of what was already set up in the OT. While here we're 2 movies in and I don't see a way for the last movie to fix things.

Out of curiosity what flaws do you think the last movie needs to "fix?" I can see them giving some brief backstory in Snoke in the last movie, but that's all they need to do. I hope they don't make Rey's parents important. We know we're going to see Force Ghost Luke either way.

All they really have to do is give some closure to Kylo Ren, we'll most likely see him use the Knights of Ren now that he is Supreme leader, and then give Rey some decent heroic stuff to do while hopefully not going too far with it. Maz will probably tell Rey that Luke left her his lightsaber after Kylo Ren betrayed him and there's not much more.

As for all the other characters like Finn, Poe, Rose, etc...again, I'm not expecting much. They're just support characters and fighter pilots, they'll probably be used the same way Han, Lando and Wedge were used in Episode 6.

[sdp]

Out of curiosity what flaws do you think the last movie needs to "fix?"

That's the thing, for me the trilogy cannot be fixed, with this new trilogy they undid everything the OT did and made it as if those victories and that whole adventure we saw meant nothing.

Kylo turns to the light or is killed? doesn't matter. Rey has interesting parents and we get Snoke's backstory? That'd be interesting but it doesn't fix the problem.

We know that by the end of the movie The First Order will be defeated "forever" and "This time it's for real". I don't know, even if they add some cool subplot or whatever I don't see how they can fix repeating the Empire vs Rebels story.

TLJ is getting more heat than it should when it was TFA that created the major issue, TLJ just continued it. I just can't see what Disney could do to have IX redeem the trilogy for me, if it were to happen then awesome.

I think what Disney will take from this backlash is this "We took too many risks in TLJ, let's keep it safe like TFA for all the sequels, we were doing good then"

[Spike Spiegel]

ttOoEbj0VL4

[Vegita-San]

i love this lady. glad she hated it.

[Vegita-San]

I guess I should have put two and two together, but kathleen kennedy founding this vaunted 'story group' explains alot of things.

and why the new books suck
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/22/movies/star-wars-last-jedi-women-run-universe.html

this article basically makes me want to oy vey. lots of revisionist history in this one. including thinking it was rebels that made asoka a popular character.

[Shark_Blade]

I believe he didn't want Kylo to actually kill him. He practically denied Kylo his revenge.

So he killed himself instead? I don't get it. :-?

It seems so foolish tbh.


2) I think I finally grasp why Vice Admiral Holdo didn't tell Poe her plan. She didn't trust the rogue captain from the start but it doesn't make any sense why she still won't tell him when the mutiny happened...why? Cause she's so egotistical?

I got the answer to this. Sort of.

https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2017/12/24/16766588/the-last-jedi-poe-dameron-star-wars

First, after Poe ignores Leia’s order to retreat during an attack on a First Order Dreadnought, his disobedience leads the loss of all of the Resistance’s bombers. He is demoted, and when Vice-Admiral Holdo steps up as the resistance leader after Leia’s injuries and declines to share her plans with Poe, he’s clearly rattled; he’s always been one of Leia’s most trusted operatives in the movement. But as Verge veteran Kwame Opam noted on Twitter, his behavior gives Holdo every reason to cut him out of the loop.

Kwame Opam
@kwameopam
People keep asking why Vice Admiral Holdo doesn't just tell Poe the evacuation plan.

Simple: Poe acted recklessly, got people killed, and got demoted. Holdo doesn't have to tell him anything. Poe isn't entitled to strategic knowledge, and it sucks that fans expected different.

When he learns of Holdo’s plans to evacuate the remaining resistance members on smaller transporters, he decides to take matters into his own hands and instigate a mutiny, which is cut short when Leia awakens and stuns him. Sure, Poe is one of the good guys, but his recklessness and need to be the hero lead to disaster.

Although he ultimately learns that his and Holdo’s plans are very similar, his actions end up undermining the Resistance and delaying their attempt to flee from a deadly attack. Some problems, it turns out, can’t be solved by a ragtag band of would-be heroes who think they know best.

On the salt-planet Crait, it’s Finn who’s too hotheaded for his own good, and tries to sacrifice himself to take out the First Order’s door-busting cannon. Although the now-wiser Poe orders Finn to pull out, it’s Rose who stops Finn by knocking his ship out of the line of fire. Although it looks for a moment like he’s going to go out in a heroic blaze of glory, she recognizes how foolish and ultimately useless that sacrifice would be.

Responsibility is a core theme in the film, which we also see in Luke Skywalker’s arc and his admission to Rey about why Ben Solo turned to the dark side. It’s a big change for a franchise that has always been more interested in the hotshot antics of the “galaxy’s best pilot” than the practical results of taking those sorts of absurd risks. It subverts Star Wars norm of rewarding impulsive decisions with accolades, and paves the way for a richer narrative that acknowledges the fact that sometimes, good guys can inadvertently do bad things with lasting consequences.

[RaphaelinSTL]

Interesting ...

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_wars/star-wars-the-last-jedi-suffers-record-setting-box-office-drop-from-week-one-to-week-two-a156548

[Spike Spiegel]

this article basically makes me want to oy vey. lots of revisionist history in this one. including thinking it was rebels that made asoka a popular character.

From the article

Early on, the story group fought for the character Ahsoka Tano, a 14-year-old girl created by George Lucas and further developed by the director, producer and writer Dave Filoni. Not initially popular, she had a high, whiny voice and all the self-control of a bratty teenager when she was introduced in 2008 in the animated film and subsequent series “The Clone Wars.” In his review, Roger Ebert called her “annoying,” and angry letters and emails flooded in from fans.

Yet Mr. Filoni and the story group were insistent that there was more to Ahsoka Tano. Even after the series was canceled in 2013, the team would not let her die. Instead they included her in a new animated series, “Star Wars Rebels,” taking her on a journey from adolescent to compassionate 30-year-old adult, one whose nuanced arc reveals flaws in the Jedi order and insight into Anakin Skywalker’s descent. She now has a considerable fan following, including many young women who treasure their “Ahsoka Lives” T-shirts.



Characters like Ashoka Tano are gaining prominence in the “Star Wars” universe. A new, unpublished analysis of “Star Wars” films shows striking progress in their representation of gender and race.

Ah, well...I'd honestly say Ahsoka was part of the old and new versions of the EU, given that she was introduced before the Disney buyout. And you also had characters like Mara Jade, Bastila, Darth Talon, Shaak Ti, Aayla Secura, Jocasta Nu, and Kreia...not to mention Mon Mothma. Female characters with prominent positions in SW are nothing new, and this "story group" is only the latest link in a long chain of creators that starts with Lucas himself.

But do you really expect journalists to research anything that closely in the age of clickbait?

[Vegita-San]

But do you really expect journalists to research anything that closely in the age of clickbait?

Nope.

all that article did was made me realize why star wars is no longer for the fans. they are too busy trying to be 'progressive' to care about star wars.

[Andrew NDB]

Nope.

all that article did was made me realize why star wars is no longer for the fans. they are too busy trying to be 'progressive' to care about star wars.

I don't think that's true at all. There are huge parts of 8 I don't like... but I definitely don't believe Rian Johnson either has, or is being forced into some kind of "progressive" plan above his head.

Whether or not JJ was, I'm not certain. I kind of doubt it. I do know he was basically forced at gunpoint to do a ANH remake, but beyond that... not sure.

[CyberCubed]

Are people really playing the "progressive" card again? I remember when Episode 7's leads were announced people couldn't handle a female lead and a black hero as the two main characters. Like it actually bothered them, probably because they couldn't handle there was no white male hero instead. Even though Han Solo was a lead in the movie and Kylo Ren is also "white" even if he's a villain. Then there's Poe...a guy whose real life actor is spanish.

If this is what people are still complaining about (I've seen people hate on Rose because she's Asian, not because they find her dull/uninteresting but because she's specifically Asian), is just pathetic.

[Vegita-San]

I don't think that's true at all. There are huge parts of 8 I don't like... but I definitely don't believe Rian Johnson either has, or is being forced into some kind of "progressive" plan above his head.

Whether or not JJ was, I'm not certain. I kind of doubt it. I do know he was basically forced at gunpoint to do a ANH remake, but beyond that... not sure.

then how come all the women do the heroic stuff, or die heroically? yet, all the guys are hot headed loosers who nearly get the whole group killed, or captured?

that's pure kathleen kennedy/story group nonsense right there.

[Andrew NDB]

Are people really playing the "progressive" card again? I remember when Episode 7's leads were announced people couldn't handle a female lead and a black hero as the two main characters. Like it actually bothered them, probably because they couldn't handle there was no white male hero instead. Even though Han Solo was a lead in the movie and Kylo Ren is also "white" even if he's a villain. Then there's Poe...a guy whose real life actor is spanish.

If this is what people are still complaining about (I've seen people hate on Rose because she's Asian, not because they find her dull/uninteresting but because she's specifically Asian), is just pathetic.

I just can't imagine a scenario where Kathleen Kennedy is coming at these movies, throwing agendas at the directors about "You need to do this!" or "This needs to be that!" But maybe. We do know that the only person saying that 7 is the Han movie, 8 is the Luke movie, and 9 is the Leia movie... is her. Since none of them beyond the Han movie were really written before she said that, and we know she's the only person with any power in the room.

Rose has a lot of potential. I dug everything I saw of her, even in the casino planet stuff. I just wish she'd arrived in 7, so there'd be more "mileage." It's not just her, but there is so much stuff given roots in 7 that is thrown out, and so much stuff given roots in 8... I have no idea how JJ will wrap this all up. It's do-able. But wow. Back on Rose, I mean... let's pretend there really is something with Finn and Rose. And now let's imagine we just met Leia in TESB (she was never in 4), and we didn't even get the "I love you" & "I know" until RotJ. It wouldn't have carried nearly the weight. It would have seemed a tacked on thing. And no matter what, you know there will be a major league time lapse of probably at least a decade between IX and X... so they kind of need to get their house in order fast and quick to make the Disney trilogy "matter" or even make sense.

[Vegita-San]

dude.. she literally said the male fans of the franchise no longer mattered and she didn't have to cater to them. if that's not man hating, i don't know what is.

and the fact that all the women are the hero's while the men not so much?
To me, it's got her finger prints all over it.

I personally think she has NO plan on where these things are going to go.

Episode 7 was written around one idea "What if luke skywalker vanished?" JJ specifically stated that was their entire idea to start with.

I have no doubt someone came up with a shocker title for this one and said 'Lets make the Title 'The Last Jedi'... We'll come up with the plot later. 'What? Rian wants to throw it all out and start from scratch? Cool, we trust him!'

And now they are stuck on where to go from 9 and JJ has to tie it all together somehow. It's an Even BIGGER mistake saying somehow this last one will tie together all three... when 8 didn't even tie together the stuff from 9 and..

god, my head is exploding trying to figure it all out.

[Shark_Blade]

dude.. she literally said the male fans of the franchise no longer mattered and she didn't have to cater to them. if that's not man hating, i don't know what is.Where did she say such thing?

and the fact that all the women are the hero's while the men not so much?Where did you get this silly idea from? The men did plenty of heroic stuff:

Luke - managed to trick Kylo, becoming "more powerful than you can ever imagine", and gave time for the Rebels to escape.
Finn - attempted to bring back a code breaker, even attempted kamikaze to save the Rebels
Poe - despite loosing some fighters and bomb vehicles, he destroyed a Dreadnought.

Seems the men are pretty heroic to me. You just can't accept capable, powerful women do heroic things huh? Face it, it's happening everywhere be it at home institution and even in the business world. It's not that surprising that it's happening in fictional world too. Heck, even Eowyn ("I am no man") killed Sauron in Lord of the Rings because "no man can kill him". Chill.

I personally think she has NO plan on where these things are going to go.

Episode 7 was written around one idea "What if luke skywalker vanished?" JJ specifically stated that was their entire idea to start with.

I have no doubt someone came up with a shocker title for this one and said 'Lets make the Title 'The Last Jedi'... We'll come up with the plot later. 'What? Rian wants to throw it all out and start from scratch? Cool, we trust him!'

And now they are stuck on where to go from 9 and JJ has to tie it all together somehow. It's an Even BIGGER mistake saying somehow this last one will tie together all three... when 8 didn't even tie together the stuff from 9 and..

god, my head is exploding trying to figure it all out.Maybe. Nothing anyone can do for now but wait. Hey, if you don't like it don't watch it. Simple.



Anyway, here's Angry Joe:

Xg7-H6xYmZY

[Vegita-San]

Where did she say such thing?

Seems the men are pretty heroic to me. You just can't accept capable, powerful women do heroic things huh

and thus another SJW is born saying the same old stuff... sigh

https://movieweb.com/star-wars-movies-catering-male-fanbase-kathleen-kennedy/

she's a card carrying fake feminist just like paul feig.

as for that video you linked, all you have to do is read the comments and see that angry joes company is owned by disney now. He did his REAL review earlier, and trashed it apparently. then did this and backpeddled 100%. smh.

[Cure]

I don't really see what's wrong with someone saying they're not catering to a certain demographic; it just means that the movie is made for everyone. Having a problem with a movie that's not made specifically with you and your type in mind is pretty gross.

[sdp]

There's a fineline between something being "SJW" and "racist/sexist".

I do remember all the sexist/racists that were complaining because of Finn/Rey :lol: Whatever adding some diversity is perfectly fine, I especially loved it since at the time I thought it meant they were taking risks (which we know now they didn't).

Calling out a scene where there's no diversity and it's mostly women with few men/aliens is not fine and is clearly trying to pander to a a demographic.

I can't say my enjoyment of Star Wars has been affected yet by it though, it's annoying when people point it out. My enjoyment of Star Wars has been affected by the plot.


The problem is people and media in both political extremes take advantage of this to prove their point as to why they're correct. This is the main problem with media today where things are "too political" and they want to polarize you into one extreme


It does make me wonder if all the protection the movie is getting from media is because it fits their political agenda or if they're in the pockets of Disney or I if they're just big Star Wars fans protecting the property because of that. Their political bias in geek culture sites is well known while it's also suspicious that Marvel gets it a bit easier than DC in those sites (yes, i'm aware DC isn't doing a good job but still). But you mention these things and you're labeled alt-right or shill.

[CyberCubed]

all that article did was made me realize why star wars is no longer for the fans. they are too busy trying to be 'progressive' to care about star wars.

and thus another SJW is born saying the same old stuff... sigh

she's a card carrying fake feminist just like paul feig.




dude.. she literally said the male fans of the franchise no longer mattered and she didn't have to cater to them. if that's not man hating, i don't know what is.

and the fact that all the women are the hero's while the men not so much?
To me, it's got her finger prints all over it.

All this guy ever does is whine about the same anti-feminist agenda over and over again. And not just for Star Wars, with any other franchise he posts about too. And in almost every thread. And this is coming from a 40 year old man, too. If Vegita-san was in his 20's it'd be a different story, this guy is a middle age man.

Anyone who disagrees with him too is called an, "SJW" :lol:

Personally I see nothing in the new Star Wars movies that's pandering. It's the same kneejerk reaction some people like he felt when Episode 7 was first revealed with Rey and Finn and people had mental breakdowns there was no white male lead there (even though there technically was with both Han and Kylo Ren).

[dl316bh]

Actually saw The Last Jedi last week.

I'm not sure why it's considered divisive. Well, I kind of do, but not on a level regarding the actual craft of the film. It's far and away better than the last four films and I say that as someone who likes some of the prequels, flawed as they are. It's ten times better than Force Awakens. I finally saw that film for the first time in preparation for The Last Jedi and I'm not sure I've seen a more contrived film filled with more disbelief suspension breaking moments and coincidences in a long while.

I think The Last Jedi is in my top three. It's only real competition are Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. I think it might edge out Return. Empire might still take the top spot though for being a bit tighter film.

I liked the message of the film - I took it to be something like "don't be afraid to kill your heroes if you have to, but it's okay to respect and look up to them even if they're not what you thought" - and, while people don't like it for sacrilege reasons, I do kind of like that it takes some tenants of the franchise to task and might move away from some of them. It looks like they want to move Star Wars away from the Skywalker legacy and morph the force away from something as rigid as light and dark, which, don't they kind of have to, going forward? Disney clearly wants this to be a long term money maker and while I still think that diminishing returns will set in at their pace, doing this is probably the smart call. How many times can you have the fate of the universe center around one family line, with the order in the galaxy crumbling every time they shift? How long before the galaxy just stopped putting up with it and tracked down anyone with Skywalker blood? Wouldn't that get boring? The first time they tried to ape what originally worked was Force Awakens and people started turning on that inside of a month or two.

Poes story was an interesting one and something that probably needed to be told. Poe was a blank slate going into this film, as he did f*** all in Force Awakens since he was only in the bookends, so taking his status as the ace fighter pilot and using that play into an obsession with big, heroic plays to save the galaxy was a great choice. Hail Mary plans have certainly saved the day numerous times in the franchise, but they're often desperate with a high chance of failure. You can't just keep hedging your bets on them working out, something his superiors knew, and Poe comes close to actually getting them all killed a couple times here. If Roses sister never got those bombs off, the Resistance died right there, all because Poe wouldn't pull out. His idea with Rose and Finn ultimately ended with the scuzzy codebreaker selling out the stealthed ships, ruining Holdo and Leias plan and almost making Holdos sacrifice meaningless.

Luke's story was interesting. I had reservations that Luke really would have given up like he did after a screw-up, even one that big - and apparently that was Mark Hammils problem with the film - but once you get past that and accept it, it works. He's in a bad place, perhaps going too far in his views on the Jedi, but it softens a bit over time as he learns to forgive himself and let the past go. Judging by some reactions, I think some people actually missed that. It's about letting the past go and turning back towards the future, the way he used to. He finally seems to accept his place and maybe even his role as an inspiration, saying confidently that he won't be the last Jedi. He even spared the Jedi text, which are in a drawer in the Falcon in a blink and you'll miss it moment.

I saw some people complain that Luke didn't get to really fight or show off at the end, which is strange. Luke was the hero at the end and he basically won by completely outsmarting his foe, using their flaws against them and buying time for the Resistance to flee. He's what you'd expect of a Jedi master with full control of the force. They wouldn't necessarily need to use the lightsaber as much, with their mastery of the force allowing them to win through other means than going directly for violence. It's like a monk who has managed to reach enlightenment and mastery, who can allow your to defeat yourself. It might have been even cooler than him showing up and just taking out the First Order in some blaze of glory, because it's unexpected and geez, haven't we already kind of seen that?

I got misty eyed twice during this film and shed tears two other times. I haven't felt anything from a Star Wars film in over a decade. The Last Jedi made me feel again about Star Wars. That's a big accomplishment. The first was Leia using the force to bring herself back to the ship. She chose a different path, but she's still a Skywalker. The second is when Yoda reunites with Luke one last time, the old master giving his old pupil one last life lesson, telling him how he's missed him. That one got a tear or two shed. Third was when I got choked up thinking Finn was going to die at the end. I'd heard spoilers, but oddly heard nothing about where Finn ended up in the movie, so I was blind on that one and actually bought it. He was the only one I really cared much about in Force Awakens, so yeah. The last was the second tears bit, when Luke is looking out in his last moments and has a vision of the twin suns of Tatooine while the theme plays, just before letting go while at peace.

I liked Rey more in this film. She actually felt like she had a character arc and learned things. Same for Kylo Ren. Both seemed to come into their own here as opposed to being kind of... well, nothing, really, in the prior film. They needed to be either more charming or menacing, respectively, in the last film to get by without an interesting character arc and didn't quite reach it there.

At first, I wasn't hot on Snoke just being offed like he was with no fanfare, but I not only got over it quickly, I ended up thinking it was for the best. My only hang-up was "we knew nothing about this guy, so why should we care?" I then realized its not about him, we care because of what it means for Kylo, not Snoke. Snoke was nothing and frankly, anything they did would have just been a pale Emperor Palpatine imitation anyway, so f*** it. Kill the repeat, then subvert the immediate expectation for Kylo. Works for me.

I liked the last ditch heroic sacrifice of Holdo. It works well. I've seen people complain about "well, how can you have any drama now that they have hyperspace bombs" and jesus, I really do wonder if people actually watched the movie or not. She turned a ship around and jumped to lightspeed in their path, which caused ungodly damage. The reason? It was a massive carrier. You can't just jump an X-Wing and expect to take out half a fleet. Plus, holy crap, the resources it would take to just make giant carriers simply to use as "bombs" would be astronomical. Hell, they barely have anything left at the end.

I think the only thing that maybe could have stood with a couple cuts is the casino sideplot. But then, maybe not? It does have some revelations about the state of the galaxy in Star Wars that brings depth to things. Revelations that make sense. It even retroactively helps explain some things. Much like bringing things past just the light and the dark, it brings the war beyond just the space Nazi's and the space Allies.

The final scene of the film was fairly powerful too, because it shows that, whatever he thought his failures were, Luke Skywalker was and is the hero in Star Wars, then and now, in and out of universe. He'd done something to inspire the galaxy one more time, enough that slave kids are telling each other about his stand against the First Order to buy the Resistance time, and showed that, for as much as looking to legends too much can be harmful, they're a benefit as inspiration. He fanned the flames of hope in the galaxy one more time. Luke Skywalker mattered. He passed, at peace, a hero one more time. It's funny, the nature of new stories with new casts, which cast the old as mentors who can't solve the new problems, is as old as time, but for as much as new Star Wars follows that to an extent, Luke Skywalker was still the hero of the day.

Great movie. It actually made me feel positive about Star Wars again and was what I wanted all along from new films. I'm not sure I'm reconciled with the reality of it being a Disney thing, I'm not interested in any of the merchandise or gaming anymore and I'm not definitely not seeing the spin-offs in theaters, but unless Abrams screws it up and pulls another Force Awakens I'll probably be there for IX.

Why are you always make it about some complexes?

Protecting what you like is not a complex.
Gah, I had a whole big thing I was writing in response to this, then I got sick, and now it's so far removed I don't even care anymore. Maybe it's for the best. We were starting to argue in circles and everything I had would have just continued it. Worth just returning to Star Wars.

Still, this is worth addressing.

Mainly to say, let's not go down this road in the future, because we were headed toward snarktown and I'd rather remain cordial.

Where did you get this silly idea from? The men did plenty of heroic stuff
Yeah. Actually, I'd go so far as to say Luke ends up being the hero of the film.

Rose has a lot of potential. I dug everything I saw of her, even in the casino planet stuff. I just wish she'd arrived in 7, so there'd be more "mileage."
I felt the same. I thought she was a great addition. Actually, this was the film where I felt the characters in general came into their own.

[CyberCubed]

Agreed on all counts. Rey and Kylo Ren are now much better (and developed) characters now than they were in the first film. Snoke and many other aspects of TFA were just too similar to the original trilogy and getting rid of him early worked wonders. Now we can have the story focus entirely on Kylo Ren without getting into an Emperor rehash. And as I said, Kylo Ren might reveal some backstory of how Snoke turned him in the next film as well, so for those who want it might still get some info on the character.

I like Finn and Poe, not sold on Rose yet, but we'll see. But I think people oddly expect too much out of them? They're not really handled much differently than Han, Lando, or even Leia were in Episodes V and VI. They're basically there to be support characters, fighter pilots, give Rey some characters to interact with and befriend and not much more. They have decent character arcs for what they're there for.

I think Luke was handled very well, and it made sense to see him so disappointed that his nephew Kylo Ren could be so easily turned, that him raising a new Jedi order was burnt to the ground, or that him stopping Vader/Palpatine didn't seem to do much to slow down the Empire at all. And there's a 30+ year gap here just like in real life, we have no idea what other struggles Luke went through in 3 decades time that will surely be focused on in endless comics and novels they make for years.

I think The Last Jedi is going to be a film that gets better and better upon repeated viewings. Lastly Rey being a nobody is the best decision they came up with. It proves you don't need to be some predestined character for greatness and that Rey can forge her own story without being tied to older characters just for the sake of legacy lineage.

[dl316bh]

Agreed on all counts. Rey and Kylo Ren are now much better (and developed) characters now than they were in the first film. Snoke and many other aspects of TFA were just too similar to the original trilogy and getting rid of him early worked wonders. Now we can have the story focus entirely on Kylo Ren without getting into an Emperor rehash. And as I said, Kylo Ren might reveal some backstory of how Snoke turned him in the next film as well, so for those who want it might still get some info on the character.
This film did wonders for Rey. She was likable enough in Force Awakens, but ultimately didn't feel like much. I didn't find myself caring about the parentage thing - and think it's for the best that they solved that how they did in TLJ - and that was what little real motivation she had. I connected with Finn a lot more, because he was the only one who felt like he had a character arc, to the point where I'd wished he'd been "the guy" at least once during Force Awakens. Him standing firm and lighting up the lightsaber, despite having no noticeable connection to the force or real chance, and then holding his own for a bit was one of the few TFA scenes that got a reaction out of me.

Kylo actually felt like he had reasons and motivations this time too. He went from eye rolling in TFA to an interesting antagonist in one film. Impressive.

I like Finn and Poe, not sold on Rose yet, but we'll see. But I think people oddly expect too much out of them? They're not really handled much differently than Han, Lando, or even Leia were in Episodes V and VI. They're basically there to be support characters, fighter pilots, give Rey some characters to interact with and befriend and not much more. They have decent character arcs for what they're there for.
I don't know, I think they all had a decent amount of things to do. Hell, Poe was a central player in events of half the film. Hell, his character arc almost f***ed the Resistance a couple times. Rose had clear character and with Finn they built off what they did with him in TFA, to the point he calls himself rebel scum. I think they did a lot with them. More than TFA did for anyone not named Finn, for sure.

I think Luke was handled very well, and it made sense to see him so disappointed that his nephew Kylo Ren could be so easily turned, that him raising a new Jedi order was burnt to the ground, or that him stopping Vader/Palpatine didn't seem to do much to slow down the Empire at all. And there's a 30+ year gap here just like in real life, we have no idea what other struggles Luke went through in 3 decades time that will surely be focused on in endless comics and novels they make for years.
I could see him just being so disappointed in himself, too, given what he almost did. But more, I think what happened just made sense for his character and was laid out perfectly. When he was young, he always looked to the future, out over the horizon. Then he got old, and looked to the past far too much. Then he learned one more life lesson and realized it was time to look at the present. Perfect.

I think The Last Jedi is going to be a film that gets better and better upon repeated viewings. Lastly Rey being a nobody is the best decision they came up with. It proves you don't need to be some predestined character for greatness and that Rey can forge her own story without being tied to older characters just for the sake of legacy lineage.
Probably. Having seen it now, I think part of it is kneejerk reactions over the stuff the film seems to want to put behind the franchise and some people feeling upset that, in their mind, Luke Skywalker was trivialized or his legacy diminished (which is absolutely not what happened). I think there's a general war inside a lot of fans, most times, in that they want something new and different, but then, they don't, because that's unfamiliar, and it's a clash that waxes and wanes.

Opinion on Star Wars films seem to shift over time anyway, so it will likely end up appreciated more over time. We'll see.

[Vegita-San]

It does make me wonder if all the protection the movie is getting from media is because it fits their political agenda or if they're in the pockets of Disney or I if they're just big Star Wars fans protecting the property because of that. Their political bias in geek culture sites is well known while it's also suspicious that Marvel gets it a bit easier than DC in those sites (yes, i'm aware DC isn't doing a good job but still). But you mention these things and you're labeled alt-right or shill.

Disney literally strong armed theaters hostage to give this movie extra showings, and now it's biting theater owners in the butt.

They also dared to remove a critic from press screenings if he didn't give them favorable reviews.

Look at that, and the angry joe situation above and you wonder why so many 'pro' critics suddenly like this mess.

[Shark_Blade]

Angry Joe isn't owned by Disney (you fell for that April Fool joke lmao).

If you actually watch the video, he went to watch the movie twice again - that's three times in total. And he bought the Visual Dictionary books. From that he broaden his knowledge and develop a new level of understanding of the movie as a whole.

That's a nerdy dedication. I see no problem with that.

And people's opinion change overtime, that's not surprising tbh.

[Utrommaniac]

A thing to remember is that Anakin was also one helluva nobody. He was born a slave for crying out loud! And while Rey wasn't quite in the same vein as that, there's more than enough similarity between the two.

Which might fuel some of Ben's bitterness toward her, since she has more in common with his own grandfather than he does.

Heck, even ROSE has more in common with Anakin than Ben does, with her background being in slavery. And Rose's sister having skill in piloting.

At least he gets Anakin's tendency for being broody and over dramatic :lol:

And are we not going to talk about the fact that Admiral Akbar died in the same attack that Leia nearly did? RIP, you Father of Memes, Patron Of Identifying When Things Are Traps.

[dl316bh]

Ackbars death was so understated, you could easily miss it. But that's sort of how it's been for him in the new trilogy in general, so I guess it fits. He's just sort of been there in the background. You could even miss the realization he was even there in both movies.

And people's opinion change overtime, that's not surprising tbh.
It almost feels like tradition for the opinion of a Star Wars film to change over time.

[CyberCubed]

I didn't even know Akbar was in these movies, I just assumed it was another one of his race of fish people. :lol:

[Utrommaniac]

Yeah, he was there. He's even listed off as one of those who died in the attack that Leia survived.

(His species is "Mon Calamari" and whoever came up with that needs a good smack :P )

[Krutch]

Although the now-wiser Poe orders Finn to pull out, it’s Rose who stops Finn by knocking his ship out of the line of fire. Although it looks for a moment like he’s going to go out in a heroic blaze of glory, she recognizes how foolish and ultimately useless that sacrifice would be.And thus she chooses to instead violently crash into him which could/should have had the resulted in both their deaths, as well as the deaths of the Resistance in the base. Brilliant.

[Shark_Blade]

I'm surprised Rose's rusty flying bucket could actually catch up to Finn's. :tlol:

But yeah I'm sure Rose's gonna be fine in next Star Wars; just like how Finn was seriously injured in TFA but fit as a fiddle in TLJ pretty much immediately. Also, just like how Kylo's face was horribly scarred looking ugly - but it later miraculously moved, look fine and "edgy" (https://www.google.com/search?q=kylo+ren+scar+moved&rlz=1CDGOYI_enMY690MY690&hl=en-GB&prmd=ivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjlwu6JtafYAhVHvY8KHeh3Dd8Q_AUIESgB&biw=414&bih=660#imgrc=3GVHBcNIiWXQTM:) in TLJ.

This SW universe has no repercussion whatsoever apparently.

[Andrew NDB]

https://i.imgflip.com/216mqw.jpg

[plastroncafe]

I'll take the bait, Finn was in a medically-induced coma at the end of the force awakens and he's in a medical regeneration bag at the beginning of Last Jedi. Which looks to me like a mobile version of the tank that like was in.

And we actually see kylo Ren scar being healed during the course of the movie.

Is the argument that medical technology hasn't improved?
I mean I guess it's a fair argument, given that apparently in the prequels the obstetric care available is so shotty women still due in labor...

[dl316bh]

I mean I guess it's a fair argument, given that apparently in the prequels the obstetric care available is so shotty women still due in labor...
If memory serves me right, it wasn't anything to do with the care provided that caused her to die. She more or less gave up.

I'll take the bait, Finn was in a medically-induced coma at the end of the force awakens and he's in a medical regeneration bag at the beginning of Last Jedi. Which looks to me like a mobile version of the tank that like was in.
Yeah, the accelerated healing stuff goes back to Empire, it just seems to me they figured out a way to make it take less space than the big tanks from those days.

[Andrew NDB]

I'll take the bait, Finn was in a medically-induced coma at the end of the force awakens and he's in a medical regeneration bag at the beginning of Last Jedi. Which looks to me like a mobile version of the tank that like was in.

I'm sure it was Bacta fluid, yeah.

I mean I guess it's a fair argument, given that apparently in the prequels the obstetric care available is so shotty women still due in labor...

The cure for a broken heart wasn't invented by the Republic until 3 years after "Revenge of the Sith," unfortunately.

[Spike Spiegel]

I'd love to see a comic based on Lucas' treatments for VII-IX, like how Dark Horse adapted his early drafts into that comic miniseries called "The Star Wars (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Star_Wars)."

[Shark_Blade]

Mark Hamill regrets trash-talking Luke Skywalker's direction in 'The Last Jedi'
https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/983326001

Aww, poor Mark feeling guilty. :(

[Sumac]

I'd love to see a comic based on Lucas' treatments for VII-IX, like how Dark Horse adapted his early drafts into that comic miniseries called "The Star Wars (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Star_Wars)."
I have read that one.
It was very Flash Gordon-y. I find it interesting like some of the stuff from this version of the story was used in pretty much all both OT and PT.

Also, the fact that Darth Vader is essentially combination of 4 (!!) different characters from this script is quite amusing.

[Vegita-San]

Mark Hamill regrets trash-talking Luke Skywalker's direction in 'The Last Jedi'
https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/983326001

Aww, poor Mark feeling guilty. :(


Complete and utter bull.

I'm surprised Disney let him go on that long. but I Guess the second weekend of dropped sales didn't help.

[dl316bh]

It was very Flash Gordon-y.
I didn't read that one, but hearing it was like Flash Gordon makes a lot of sense to me given how much of an influence old film serials were on George Lucas.

I'm surprised Disney let him go on that long. but I Guess the second weekend of dropped sales didn't help.
That implies Disney is worried and I highly doubt that. The Last Jedi has already made eight hundred million worldwide without even releasing in China yet, three weekends in. The suggested price for it to break even, including promotion, is eight hundred million. They broke even early. It's projected to close around one point six billion. I doubt any of the usual dickhead suits at Disney are losing any sleep, much less rushing over to Mark Hammils house to break his kneecaps this late in the game.

[CyberCubed]

Complete and utter bull.

I'm surprised Disney let him go on that long. but I Guess the second weekend of dropped sales didn't help.

https://twitter.com/HamillHimself/status/945784443964309505

Mark Hammill said himself actors and writers/directors will always have creative differences, this is the same for almost anything in production.

66 year old millionaire Mark Hammill doesn't have a feud with Rian Johnson. I don't know why you think every person who works under Disney has some problem with them.

[newfan]

Mark just voiced his opinion on Luke's character and said that he wished they'd taken some of Lucas input, I've not read him actually trashing the movie itself or the director.

[Vegita-San]

So, all that 'not my luke skywalker' was him just voicing his opinion, not trashing the movie?

He can't even remember Rey's name in some of the videos he's in with daisy.

he may not have trashed the director directly, but I feel everything he said before was his way of trashing the movie sequel trilogy.

[Vegita-San]

That implies Disney is worried and I highly doubt that. I doubt any of the usual dickhead suits at Disney are losing any sleep, much less rushing over to Mark Hammils house to break his kneecaps this late in the game.

the biggest drop off in movie history might have something to do with them reigning in their biggest star. especially since all the male star wars fans they thought they could do without looked up to what he said. as well as lots of the female ones.

[Spike Spiegel]

https://img00.deviantart.net/a727/i/2011/122/7/8/beating_a_dead_horse_by_potatoehuman-d3fead4.jpg

[NinjaPug]

the biggest drop off in movie history might have something to do with them reigning in their biggest star. especially since all the male star wars fans they thought they could do without looked up to what he said. as well as lots of the female ones.

If you go back and read interviews he did during the press tour prior to the release he said the exact same thing. The problem is those interviews were picked apart and only focused on his initial feelings and not the parts where he admitted he was wrong to feel that way. Hamill was also against what happened to Luke in ESB and ROTJ but that doesn't help the narrative you're pushing.

[Vegita-San]

If you go back and read interviews he did during the press tour prior to the release he said the exact same thing. The problem is those interviews were picked apart and only focused on his initial feelings and not the parts where he admitted he was wrong to feel that way. Hamill was also against what happened to Luke in ESB and ROTJ but that doesn't help the narrative you're pushing.

I saw that part of the interview. but if you see the utter lack of enthusiasm he has...it's rather hard to deny that he could care less about these new movies.

[NinjaPug]

I saw that part of the interview. but if you see the utter lack of enthusiasm he has...it's rather hard to deny that he could care less about these new movies.

More than likely he's tired of doing press and being asked the exact same questions over and over for days. Actors hate press tours especially ones that are this extensive for franchises like SW. He was actually very vocal on social media about the movie during the lead up to its release over the past year.

[Vegita-San]

because he's obviously not a fan of this stuff, and might just not like where it's going like everyone else. but then that wouldn't fit your narrative :).

[plastroncafe]

I'm sure it couldn't possibly have been the fact that the greatest asset that fanboys have is also our biggest detriment: that we never let anything go.

Let's face it folks, we're exhausting.

[NinjaPug]

because he's obviously not a fan of this stuff, and might just not like where it's going like everyone else. but then that wouldn't fit your narrative :).

I'm not pushing any narrative. I don't love the movie. I've posted my negative thoughts on it. I'm just countering your nonsense.

[dl316bh]

I was actually mistaken in my last post. I said three weekends. It's actually only been two.

the biggest drop off in movie history might have something to do with them reigning in their biggest star. especially since all the male star wars fans they thought they could do without looked up to what he said. as well as lots of the female ones.
There was nothing to reign in. He hasn't even changed his mind. This "I came around on it and think it worked out" stuff is what he said in the same answers in the same interviews he talked about disagreeing with the direction for Luke. Geek sites, of course, didn't help here; I guess it's a prime example of what the people who complain about clickbait articles and the like are talking about.

What's changed is he's now sorry he was honest about how he felt at the start. Mark Hammil's also a guy who is smart enough to realize he doesn't own Luke. But he has opinions about it. Hell, the only portrayal of Luke he agrees with a hundred percent is probably A New Hope. He had problems with things from Empire, too, and has said as much over the years.

Again, sure, there's a big drop-off, but we're also dealing with box office takes the size of full blockbuster budgets including promotion in the opening weekend. Big drop-offs are to be expected and it's not like it isn't projected to end somewhere around one point six billion dollars. Hell, I loved the movie and I almost wish they would take a real hit, just because Disney have been totally scummy piles of garbage in their attempts to strong-arm theaters and need something to worry about to get them to back off. And people wonder why the the Fox buy alarms a lot of people. But this isn't going to be the movie that happens.

[CyberCubed]

Don't most big blockbuster movies tend to have huge drop-offs after the first two weeks? For obvious reason that all the biggest fans and fanboys all rush to see the movie at once the moment it comes out, then after they've seen it all the regular people, like families with kids, or casual fans, come to see it after.

[Andrew NDB]

Don't most big blockbuster movies tend to have huge drop-offs after the first two weeks?

Generally a movie is expected to drop 50% in its second weekend. It's rare when you see movies doing better than that.

So right away when I'm reading all these articles about "ZOMG! 'The Last Jedi' just dropped a GADGILLION dollars in its second weekend, this is HISTORIC!!" I just stop reading. Most movies don't have $220 million dollar weekend openings... of course there will be a huge dropoff.

[Vegita-San]

how to divide a fan base. step one. can't deny she has an agenda now.
https://cdn1.thr.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/NFE_Landscape/2017/04/archerfilmfestival-web-img_4330_-_h_2017.jpg

[plastroncafe]

1/10

He used to be much better at this.

The money is going to eb and flow, what I'm more curious about is how long the discussion about the movie going to remain newsworthy.

I've had more interesting discussions surrounding this movie then I have any other movie in a really long time. I'm kind of hoping that continues.

[sdp]

I'd love to see a comic based on Lucas' treatments for VII-IX, like how Dark Horse adapted his early drafts into that comic miniseries called "The Star Wars (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Star_Wars)."

Not going to happen for a long while since releasing in the next few years could be seen Disney was not happy with their version of the ST, once enough time passes I can see it.

Any of you ever read Splinter of the Minds Eye? It was the first Star Wars book written before ESB so it's interesting where else they could've taken the story. In it the Luke/Leia relationship continues and kiss and Luke faces Darth Vader and chops his arm off. It was written from another draft of Lucas in case ANH was not a success they could continue a low budget sequel.

In fact all the pre-official EU EU is rather interesting because of that but it changed once the Thrawn Trilogy came out.


two on the left might be cute
nah, they're fat.



I've had more interesting discussions surrounding this movie then I have any other movie in a really long time. I'm kind of hoping that continues.

I like how you have all these "great interesting discussions" in these "non-toxic places" also how our opinion is just a minority and imply we're wrong; and yet you have to constantly remind us in every other thread .

[plastroncafe]

Glad to be helping with your education!

[Sumac]

I like how you have all these "great interesting discussions" in these "non-toxic places" also how our opinion is just a minority and imply we're wrong; and yet you have to constantly remind us in every other thread .
But how you show off how righteous you are, without reminding about that in every thread with every opportunity (or even without)?


IMO, PC don't visit any place, save for Technodrome and he is just a concerned troll.

[plastroncafe]

For instance, this thread about Hinduism and Star Wars from Twitter:

https://twitter.com/therunningfree/status/946224652497629186

[sdp]

For instance, this thread about Hinduism and Star Wars from Twitter:

https://twitter.com/therunningfree/status/946224652497629186

Apophenia.

[CyberCubed]

You guys realize there were plenty of female Star Wars fans before the new trilogy, right? I remember back in the day most female Star Wars fans all had crushes on Han or Luke, basically the same way you would see anyone fangirl modern actors. This is nothing new.

Leia has also been considered a feminist role model for decades now.

if you think like that you're going to be single for a longo o timo :)

LOL, sdp has been with a partner for a long time. Don't speak for other people.


IMO, PC don't visit any place, safe for Technodrome and he is just a concerned troll.

plastroncafe is a woman.

[Sumac]

plastroncafe is a woman.
That it what he wants you to think. :twink:

[Spike Spiegel]

That it what he wants you to think. :twink:

https://i.imgur.com/LaJ9Kmo.gif



nah, they're fat.



I think they're teenagers.

http://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/chris-hansen-gif-6.gif

[CyberCubed]

Adam Driver is the best new actor in the new movies. I liked him in Logan Lucky too, as well as Silence with Liam Neeson and Andrew Garfield. I'm thinking about checking out some of his other movies because of this.

Kylo Ren went from being a lousy Darth Vader wannabe to becoming one of the best and emotionally driven parts of the new trilogy.

[Vegita-San]

I think they're teenagers.


I thought they where lucasfilm employees on a red carpet thing for TLJ. hence the bad robot back drop.

[ProphetofGanja]

Saw this today. It was a decent enough movie for the most part (cinematography, soundtrack, et cetera) but a terrible story (nonsense plot, everyone made dumb decisions, bad dialogue). And again it was like the writers just broke other Star Wars movies into pieces and used them to make a new Star Wars movie. Just like Ep. 7 was a redux of Ep. 4, Ep. 8 was a redux of Ep. 5. It's like they rebooted the Original Trilogy while still keeping it part of the canon continuity

Right now I give it maybe 6/10. Still not my least favorite Star Wars film

[plastroncafe]

I thought they where lucasfilm employees on a red carpet thing for TLJ. hence the bad robot back drop.

Nope.
The girls you're objectifying attend a private school for girls grades 6-12 which had a film festival sponsored by Bad Robot.

But please continue to tell us how their underage bodies are aren't good enough for you.

[Sumac]

The girls you're objectifying attend a private school for girls grades 6-12 which had a film festival sponsored by Bad Robot.

But please continue to tell us how their underage bodies are aren't good enough for you.
What.

Where did he said anything about their bodies?
Or you are so drunk this day on your "righteousness" that you have started to have hallucinations?

[Spike Spiegel]

Where did he said anything about their bodies?


two on the left might be cute if they where not part of man haters inner circle.

https://cdn1.thr.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/NFE_Landscape/2017/04/archerfilmfestival-web-img_4330_-_h_2017.jpg



How on God's green earth can a person not see that those are clearly teenagers?

I mean, look at the facial structure...and their height relative to Kennedy, who, according to IMDB, is a measly 5'3''. It's obvious.

[dl316bh]

What.

Where did he said anything about their bodies?
I think it's the fat comment from the prior page and plastroncafe simply forgot/didn't notice it wasn't Vegita-san. Though he did bring up their possible cuteness for some reason.

[plastroncafe]

I think it's the fat comment from the prior page and plastroncafe simply forgot/didn't notice it wasn't Vegita-san. Though he did bring up their possible cuteness for some reason.

No I noticed.
Both comments were inappropriate given the source of the photo.

Unless of course the former comment were coming from someone of age-appropriate.

[Vegita-San]

How on God's green earth can a person not see that those are clearly teenagers?

I mean, look at the facial structure...and their height relative to Kennedy, who, according to IMDB, is a measly 5'3''. It's obvious.

without knowing where the photo came from, I assumed they where part of lucasfilm and from some kind of red carpet thing, hence the bad robot logo behind them and wearing the same shirt. Last time I assume anything. besides the boss lady in the middle, I assumed they where all mid 20s tops . ugh....sigh. and with that, a monumental screwup for the new year. Happy God Damn friday.

[Allio]

Is the argument that medical technology hasn't improved?
I mean I guess it's a fair argument, given that apparently in the prequels the obstetric care available is so shotty women still due in labor...

I too watched the Robot Chicken star wars special

[ProphetofGanja]

Why the **** is this thread such a damn mess

[plastroncafe]

Why the **** is this thread such a damn mess

Years of practice.

[Allio]

Why the **** is this thread such a damn mess

It’s called organized chaos. It’s easy to follow

[Spike Spiegel]

Why the **** is this thread such a damn mess

https://s.faketrumptweet.com/jbs2bv97_xxrks0_hyh1oi.png

[Vegita-San]

I did call in for a bit of a cleanup. i don't particularly care for organized or unplanned chaos myself..but on the internet, it's impossible to avoid.

as for medical advances....

why did they give luke a phony arm? why couldn't they have cloned it instead?

one would think in the star wars world, they spend all their money on war fare, and hope bacta can take care of the superficial stuff.

there actually WAS an EU book that was based around the doctors working the clone trenches. an interesting idea, but a tad too depressing for my tastes for a long form tale.

[NinjaPug]

I caught a 2nd viewing of this and had the exact opposite response I had on my 2nd viewings of TFA and Rogue One. I enjoyed both of those movies initially but have not enjoyed subsequent viewings. TFA has some interesting new characters and the 3rd act of RO is great but didn't really enjoy anything else about them upon rewatch.

I kinda loved TLJ the second time around. Knowing the story beats in advance seemed to really improved my viewing experience which hasn't been the case for a SW movie in a long time. Even the stuff I disliked originally no longer bothered me Including the forced levity (although the opening scene with Poe and Hux still annoyed me). I'll wait a while before I watch it again but for me I think this one may hold up really well upon repeat viewings.

[Bry]

https://media3.giphy.com/media/fDO2Nk0ImzvvW/giphy.gif

Why the **** is this thread such a damn mess

Because The Technodrome Forums.

[Sumac]

Years of practice.
Imageboards are missing you.

[Andrew NDB]

https://s.faketrumptweet.com/jbs5ei58_z8jnss_hn4v0i.png

[CyberCubed]

I kinda loved TLJ the second time around. Knowing the story beats in advance seemed to really improved my viewing experience which hasn't been the case for a SW movie in a long time. Even the stuff I disliked originally no longer bothered me Including the forced levity (although the opening scene with Poe and Hux still annoyed me). I'll wait a while before I watch it again but for me I think this one may hold up really well upon repeat viewings.

That's what I said too and I notice people on other forums saying that as well. TLJ gets better on repeated viewings. Even stuff like the casino planet scenes fly by the second time around.

There's still stuff I don't care for, Rose is kinda dull to me and purple hair only exists to blow herself up, but I like mostly everything else. The Kylo Ren and Rey scenes are the highlight of the movie, as well as most of Luke's scenes. I also like that the revelations of the mysteries from the previous movie were handled quickly and not made a big deal out of. With Snoke gone, Kylo Ren can be the main villain of the new trilogy without some bland emperor expy looking over his shoulder.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Why the **** is this thread such a damn mess

Years of practice.

http://media.giphy.com/media/7rj2ZgttvgomY/giphy.gif

[Allio]

Do you guys think the "Knights of Ren" are the Jedis that Ben took?

[AT-Man]

Do you guys think the "Knights of Ren" are the Jedis that Ben took?

Whatever they are, I think they'll end up like Snoke, so it doesn't matter.

[Allio]

well if they are the jedis, then that already gives them more of a background than Snoke.

[dl316bh]

Do you guys think the "Knights of Ren" are the Jedis that Ben took?
Could be, but I don't think anything is really going to be done with them. There's one movie left. You could make it work if you gave them a decent amount of screentime, importance and plot, but the last film is going to have a lot of other stuff to deal with, so I wouldn't bank on it.

It's probably something that will be left to outside material.

[CyberCubed]

Since Abrams came up with the Knights of Ren they'll mostly likely be in the last movie. I'm not sure what people expect though, they're probably just Kylo's trusted bodyguards or something. We'll probably just get a cool fight scene with Rey killing them all in the last movie, similar to the fight with the Imperial guards in Snoke's throne room.

[Vegita-San]

didn't they directly state in the movie that kylo took the other students with him? I thought it was all but given that they where the knights of ren.

I've asked this two times before in other places, and not one person who claims that this series is going in new and dangerous directions can really tell me what those directions are.
and twists on old ideas that we havn't seen ON SCREEN don't count. anything not on screen the books covered.

except for perhaps the light speed ram.

[sdp]

No I noticed.
Both comments were inappropriate given the source of the photo.

Unless of course the former comment were coming from someone of age-appropriate.

Inappropriate?

I looked at the picture for 5 seconds and don't care enough to know about the source of the picture to guesstimate the age of girls who could easily be girls I'm not attracted to especially when they could easily be attending University, oh yeah and they're fat.

My post was meant to troll you and vegita and keikaku doori but if you're going to imply sh-t you can f-ck off.

[Shark_Blade]

Mark Hamill Says Disney Has Never Told Him What to Say About 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi'

http://comicbook.com/starwars/2017/12/30/mark-hamill-star-wars-the-last-jedi-comments-disney/

"I'm really enjoying the conversations about #TheLastJedi both Pro AND Con," Hamill wrote on Twitter. "Everyone's entitled to their own opinion-but let me make one thing perfectly clear: Neither @Disney or #Lucasfilm has ever complained or told me what to say-EVER."

[sdp]

I do think Disney put a gag on Lucas, they likely called him after those initial comments of TFA, look at how vague his comments were after that initial shade he threw at Episode VII, for Rogue One and The Last Jedi, he never mentions "oh I liked it" but instead of "It was shocking and I didn't expect it" or stuff like that.

no way he likes the current product, even if the current product was good he'd probably be hating it as well if they didn't use his notes.

Disney probably didn't think Ford/Hamill would be problems, they were likely more worried about Carrie Fisher doing something that would give them bad PR, also Hamill being Luke Skywalker there was little Disney could do to shut him up when he doesn't seem to care about money but speaking his mind. Lucas on the other hand is a Disney shareholder and friends with them.

[Vegita-San]

Mark Hamill Says Disney Has Never Told Him What to Say About 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi'

http://comicbook.com/starwars/2017/12/30/mark-hamill-star-wars-the-last-jedi-comments-disney/

"I'm really enjoying the conversations about #TheLastJedi both Pro AND Con," Hamill wrote on Twitter. "Everyone's entitled to their own opinion-but let me make one thing perfectly clear: Neither @Disney or #Lucasfilm has ever complained or told me what to say-EVER."

As Long as Mark Hamil is luke skywalker, or has a chance to reprise him, disney owns his comments....probably under contract.

He may not have said that he outright hated it, BUT he DID suddenly say 'I regret my comments became public'. AFTER a HUGE weekend drop in box office.



AFTER about a month or trashing this version of luke skywalker on talk shows.

No Tin Foil hat needed to figure out what went on here. the timing is all just too odd

[CyberCubed]

What on earth are you talking about? Mark Hammil likes his role in the movie, he just said he was surprised Rian went in that direction with him being in a dark place.

Mark Hammil's twitter has been plenty open with his thoughts on the franchise, nobody is "silencing" him. Stop coming up with conspiracy theories for a 66 year old semi-retired actor who came back to acting for the fans.

[ProphetofGanja]

No I noticed.
Both comments were inappropriate given the source of the photo.

Unless of course the former comment were coming from someone of age-appropriate.

Definitely inappropriate

[MikeandRaph87]

What on earth are you talking about? Mark Hammil likes his role in the movie, he just said he was surprised Rian went in that direction with him being in a dark place.

Mark Hammil's twitter has been plenty open with his thoughts on the franchise, nobody is "silencing" him. Stop coming up with conspiracy theories for a 66 year old semi-retired actor who came back to acting for the fans.

I don't think he "came back to acting for the fans". He never stopped acting in front of the screen. He just found more work as a Voice Actor opposed to live action. If someone called him up and asked him to do a role he would likely have went for it. He is type cast as Luke Skywalker so getting live-action roles hindered his ability until he found second life as a VA and ran with it to great success.

[CyberCubed]

That's what I meant, he always did voice acting for cartoons (most notable being The Joker of course), but he was in hardly any big live-action movies for decades. He mostly did short cameo roles like his brief scene in Jay and Silent Bob strike back:

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/celebrity/mark_hamill/


My favorite non-Star Wars movie with him was "Corvette Summer" which he made way back in 1978 right after the first Star Wars. It was interesting to see him go do a romance/on the road movie right after he became famous.

[Autbot_Benz]

I just saw it finally I loved it. Had no problem how Luke was done.

[CyberCubed]

Some people wanted Luke to go Super Saiyan 3 or something and use the Force to blow all the AT-AT's and Storm Troopers away with one force palm or something. Or pull a Star Destroyer out of the sky.

[Allio]

I personally would have just liked him to have something like saber wounds, like the damage still transferred over to him.

[Andrew NDB]

Some people wanted Luke to go Super Saiyan 3 or something and use the Force to blow all the AT-AT's and Storm Troopers away with one force palm or something. Or pull a Star Destroyer out of the sky.

Something like that would have been nice.

[Andrew NDB]

I'm looking around on Facebook and in the comments of news articles and I'm seeing more and more a disturbing narrative developing.

OP: "This movie really sucked."

Replier: "You're an old fogey! Let me guess, you wanted an Empire Strikes Back remake, didn't you???"

* cue a bunch of other people chiming in, agreeing *

OP: "No, not at all. I just didn't feel like the story went anywhere and nothing was explained from the last movie and it doesn't leave me interested at all in seeing what happens next."

Replier: "It's because you love the EU books, I bet! Or want it to be like the OLD Star Wars! This is the NEW Star Wars!!!"

And so forth and so on. I don't know if this is just a growing defense mechanism of the "new fans," studio PLANTS or what, but it's a little discouraging to see. I actually liked the movie but I can see why large portions of it don't hold water.

[newfan]

I'm looking around on Facebook and in the comments of news articles and I'm seeing more and more a disturbing narrative developing.

OP: "This movie really sucked."

Replier: "You're an old fogey! Let me guess, you wanted an Empire Strikes Back remake, didn't you???"

* cue a bunch of other people chiming in, agreeing *

OP: "No, not at all. I just didn't feel like the story went anywhere and nothing was explained from the last movie and it doesn't leave me interested at all in seeing what happens next."

Replier: "It's because you love the EU books, I bet! Or want it to be like the OLD Star Wars! This is the NEW Star Wars!!!"

And so forth and so on. I don't know if this is just a growing defense mechanism of the "new fans," studio PLANTS or what, but it's a little discouraging to see. I actually liked the movie but I can see why large portions of it don't hold water.

It seems people can't be allowed to dislike, or like something that others feel opposite about.
Was it you who posted that a similar thing is happening with the new Star Trek series? I can't remember. Also, this new and old, sure, new movies and direction but they had been using the old characters and finishing their stories.

[plastroncafe]

Maybe had the OP started with why the movie didn't work for them, rather than just going the crap-post "It sucked," they wouldn't have found themselves in that thread.

Want nuance, bring nuance.

[ProphetofGanja]

OP: "This movie really sucked."

Replier: "You're an old fogey! Let me guess, you wanted an Empire Strikes Back remake, didn't you???"

Which is odd, because this movie already felt too much like a remake of Empire

[Vegita-San]

I'm looking around on Facebook and in the comments of news articles and I'm seeing more and more a disturbing narrative developing.

OP: "This movie really sucked."

Replier: "You're an old fogey! Let me guess, you wanted an Empire Strikes Back remake, didn't you???"

* cue a bunch of other people chiming in, agreeing *

OP: "No, not at all. I just didn't feel like the story went anywhere and nothing was explained from the last movie and it doesn't leave me interested at all in seeing what happens next."

Replier: "It's because you love the EU books, I bet! Or want it to be like the OLD Star Wars! This is the NEW Star Wars!!!"

And so forth and so on. I don't know if this is just a growing defense mechanism of the "new fans," studio PLANTS or what, but it's a little discouraging to see. I actually liked the movie but I can see why large portions of it don't hold water.


It's also a growing representation of people who can't stand any comment they deem 'negative'.

over on another board, an episode 8 thread was going along just fine, but got closed because the mods didn't like the direction it was going in. I.e. Mostly 'negative' comments.

smh. people really are a bunch of snowflakes these days. if this is the new star wars, which is basically just badly copying the old better star wars, they can have it.



It seems people can't be allowed to dislike, or like something that others feel opposite about.
Was it you who posted that a similar thing is happening with the new Star Trek series? I can't remember. Also, this new and old, sure, new movies and direction but they had been using the old characters and finishing their stories.


Yep. dare to say 'it's crap' and watch out. the 'be nice' police will come at you real hard.

[newfan]

Well I suppose as Plastron pointed out, in some cases it is how people go about giving their views also (generally speaking I mean)

[Vegita-San]

Even on other message boards, people tend to tire of anything they deem 'negative' super quickly these days.

but they don't realize their own 'positive' rantings can fall into the same category. so long as someone is posting that the movie is good, seems they are on the high ground and can trash anything they want...


smh.

[CyberCubed]

And yet you're doing exactly what you complain about.

[Spike Spiegel]

so long as someone is posting that the movie is good, seems they are on the high ground and can trash anything they want...


https://static.tumblr.com/e46e0f15b20fa36ee3cf0dd440d4fa71/ydxempd/RPioovzrh/tumblr_static_filename_640_v2.jpg

[Vegita-San]

https://static.tumblr.com/e46e0f15b20fa36ee3cf0dd440d4fa71/ydxempd/RPioovzrh/tumblr_static_filename_640_v2.jpg

does a few feet really count as the high ground? dumb ass just didn't jump high enough :)

[CyberCubed]

I kind of wonder now what Episode 7 would have been like if Rian Johnson was in charge of the new trilogy from the start. Unlike J.J. Abrams who "played it safe," it feels like Rian Johnson actually has a great vision for the franchise to completely move away from the original trilogy and into new territory.

All the biggest blunders of the new movies that we're now stuck with, like the Empire being so strong, Snoke, Luke leaving/abandoning the rebels, the third Death Star, Kylo Ren wearing a Darth Vader mask, etc...was all because of him.

Seems like Rian Johnson on the other hand tried to get us away from this.

[Vegita-San]

so i've been re reading some of the books.

The new movies are like the Zahn versus Anderson trilogies.

Zahn masterfully weaves a new tale, advancing things and characters significantly. while maybe once every 5 chapters referencing something from the old movies to show it's in the same universe.

Anderson, however, comes off as fan fiction. Stilted dialogue. Sometimes repeating dialogue. unfinished thoughts. And references to the movies literally every 2-4 pages. the new ideas he has don't get a chance to breath because a few pages later, han is donning a storm trooper disguise and making ANH reference.


that's what the new movies come off as.
Zahn is 4-6. Kevin J. Anderson is 7-9.

[Mayhem]

Had the pleasure of meeting Timothy Zahn a couple of years back, and he was extremely nice to chat with, along with writing arguably some of the best EU books.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mayhemers/25060499710/in/album-72157662893021593/

And I do agree to a degree with that, they were extremely faithful to the themes and spirit of the original trilogy, no mean feat!

[Vegita-San]

oops.

ZzO3DCW4LXw

[plastroncafe]

But remember, this year we shouldn't be focusing on so much negativity...

[CyberCubed]

Mark Hammill is fine with the movie. He's not "warning fans." That's a badly edited youtube clip to make it look like Luke is crapping over the movie he was promoting for months.

I love the conspiracy theories Vegita-san is trying to come up with to find out everyone involved with this movie has some vendetta against it.

[Spike Spiegel]

Had the pleasure of meeting Timothy Zahn a couple of years back, and he was extremely nice to chat with, along with writing arguably some of the best EU books.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mayhemers/25060499710/in/album-72157662893021593/

And I do agree to a degree with that, they were extremely faithful to the themes and spirit of the original trilogy, no mean feat!

His personal notes and annotations in the 20th anniversary edition of Heir to the Empire really illustrate how much effort he put into extrapolating the future of the post-Original Trilogy SW universe.

[sdp]

I pass tunnel bridge like twice a week that is fully decked out on Star Wars images and the theme playing, this is probably the coolest thing to come out of The Last Jedi for me. I've passed through it quite a few times already but I still get that nostalgic feeling.

I think I'm all star wars outt for the moment, I've already mentioned all my thoughts about it and I'll need some time before I continue ranting or getting excited about another movie, so unless I see Solo or the trailer is really bad/good, I think I'll take a break from SWs until marketing for IX begins.

Which is odd, because this movie already felt too much like a remake of Empire

I agree, but it seems to be the narrative as to why there's a backlash.

Mark Hammill is fine with the movie. He's not "warning fans." That's a badly edited youtube clip
.

Most videos with out of context quotes are usually trash. I won't even bother with this one but I did read and saw a few interviews with Hamill and he did seem displeased with the direction of the movie. He also says it's a fine movie but just not what he thought it should've been which is what many agree.

I kind of wonder now what Episode 7 would have been like if Rian Johnson was in charge of the new trilogy from the start. Unlike J.J. Abrams who "played it safe," it feels like Rian Johnson actually has a great vision for the franchise to completely move away from the original trilogy and into new territory.

All the biggest blunders of the new movies that we're now stuck with, like the Empire being so strong, Snoke, Luke leaving/abandoning the rebels, the third Death Star, Kylo Ren wearing a Darth Vader mask, etc...was all because of him.

Seems like Rian Johnson on the other hand tried to get us away from this.

It's hard to know, Rian did cement the Empire vs Rebels at the end of 8 after teasing at a new direction, we also don't know if it was the big mouse that said "we want empire vs rebels". But I agree that the major flaw of the movie is having the original status quo. Starting with a "mamma" joke was likely not the best idea but hardly a deal breaker. But yeah I could wonder forever what an Ep.VII with anyone besides JJ would've been, my fav. is a VII without Disney but no time to waste on hypotheticals, let's deal with the aftermath of reality.

[Refractive Reflections]

I saw it over the holidays, and it was... entertaining. Then again, I haven't been a huge fan of Star Wars franchise, except for reviewing and analyzing the storywriting as to understand its popularity/allure.

...Now let's focus on the real concern, that Jar Jar Binks should return as the ultimate Sith lord (intriguing part at 38:12-41:18 ):
1rHyf0FBvt4

[Shark_Blade]

Star Wars: Oscar Isaac Says It's Hard Watching "His Man" Finn Kiss Someone Else

http://comicbook.com/starwars/2018/01/09/star-wars-the-last-jedi-finn-poe-romance-rose/
Look, it was a little difficult to see my man kiss somebody else, but, you know, you gotta give up control… you got to watch some stuff you don't want to watch some times," Isaac added.

The actor is adding fuel to the flames for those who shipped Finn and Poe together after their friendship began in Star Wars: The Force Awakens. But now that Rose is in the picture, it looks like that romance — and the potential Finn and Rey ship — could be in jeopardy.
My ship FinnPoe/StormPilot is sailing strong despite the annoying wrench in the gears aka Rose Tico. :tlove:

[Vegita-San]

supposedly some smaller cinemas are removing last jedi for jumanji.

[CyberCubed]

supposedly some smaller cinemas are removing last jedi for jumanji.

Do you never get bored? It's worldwide gross is currently $1,222,851,360 according to IDMB.

It's made Disney millions back its budget.

[Vegita-San]

another disappointment for star wars.


good.

https://screenrant.com/china-drops-last-jedi-screenings/

[Spike Spiegel]

another disappointment for star wars.


good.

https://screenrant.com/china-drops-last-jedi-screenings/

From when TFA was released:

‘Star Wars’ China Poster Sparks Controversy After Shrinking John Boyega’s Character (http://variety.com/2015/film/news/star-wars-china-poster-controversy-john-boyega-1201653494/)

Supposedly, mainland Chinese attitudes about people of African descent are less than favorable, and this film has a prominent romance between a black guy and a Chinese girl.

China has an irrational fear of a “black invasion” bringing drugs, crime, and interracial marriage (https://qz.com/945053/china-has-an-irrational-fear-of-a-black-invasion-bringing-drugs-crime-and-interracial-marriage/)

A Chinese exhibit comparing Africans to animals shows the problematic racial attitudes in China (https://qz.com/1110191/africans-in-china-an-exhibit-comparing-africans-to-animals-shows-the-chinese-problematic-racial-attitudes/)

I would imagine that at least had something to do with it.

[Vegita-San]

well, that sucked the fun out of gloating at disneys disaster.
:o

[plastroncafe]

Yeah, nothing ruins a good s#itpost like finding out you're siding with racists...

[Candy Kappa]

I really enjoyed this movie. Kylo is shaping up to be a scary villain and I really liked the scenes with Luke.


Only nit pick
It would have been more effective if Luke was there in person, but he did say he would never leave the Jedi place and he came there to die, so in that regards it works.

[Spike Spiegel]

well, that sucked the fun out of gloating at disneys disaster.
:o

What's left to gloat about anyway, at this point?

I kind of want to see the deleted scenes, just to see how they affect the flow of the story.

TLJ sucked for me in a lot of ways, and I still have issues with Luke's arc in particular, but I think people who share my views will get over it like they got over Attack of the Clones and The Phantom Menace. And then they'll get sentimental about all of it and make a bunch of ironic memes and post them to Reddit.

The lines and character interactions that everybody cringed at will then become

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/025/082/sacredtexts.jpg

[dl316bh]

From when TFA was released:

‘Star Wars’ China Poster Sparks Controversy After Shrinking John Boyega’s Character (http://variety.com/2015/film/news/star-wars-china-poster-controversy-john-boyega-1201653494/)

Supposedly, mainland Chinese attitudes about people of African descent are less than favorable, and this film has a prominent romance between a black guy and a Chinese girl.

China has an irrational fear of a “black invasion” bringing drugs, crime, and interracial marriage (https://qz.com/945053/china-has-an-irrational-fear-of-a-black-invasion-bringing-drugs-crime-and-interracial-marriage/)

A Chinese exhibit comparing Africans to animals shows the problematic racial attitudes in China (https://qz.com/1110191/africans-in-china-an-exhibit-comparing-africans-to-animals-shows-the-chinese-problematic-racial-attitudes/)

I would imagine that at least had something to do with it.
Could be. They're pulling it from most theaters for some reason and thirty four million over there isn't the worst of opening weeks (some larger earners like Beauty and the Beast and Force Awakens only hit forty four and fifty million, respectively, in their opening weeks). But honestly, I don't think China gives that much of a s*** about Star Wars in general and they never really did. For comparison sake, Justice League did fifty million opening week there, the same as Force Awakens. It's not a big deal to them.

[Andrew NDB]

I wonder if they get heavily edited versions in China. They're not supposed to show or feature anything undead or darkly magical or ghosts in China... and I can think of a ton of Star Wars scenes in all of the movies that simply wouldn't exist in such a version. And, as such, wouldn't make much sense to an audience.

[dl316bh]

It's certainly possible. China's government seems historically uneasy with Star Wars. The original trilogy was banned outright in its day, which is part of why China has zero attachment to the franchise compared to the rest of the world. The prequels made it over under the quota, but did abysmally (I read once the highest any of the three ever got was ten million gross). No clue if the government demanded serious edit jobs at the time. I believe they don't do it quite as much as they used to, but I'm also far from an expert on these things.

[Vegita-San]

TLJ sucked for me in a lot of ways, and I still have issues with Luke's arc in particular, but I think people who share my views will get over it like they got over Attack of the Clones and The Phantom Menace. And then they'll get sentimental about all of it and make a bunch of ironic memes and post them to Reddit.[/url]

Not for me.

The parts of the Prequels that sucked...still suck.
The bad Acting. the bad Jar Jar Moments. Cringe Worthy Romance scenes. but there was enough good and new and interesting ideas to be able to skip past the parts one doesn't like and still enjoy the rest of the movie.

there is far less of that in these disney war movies.
even the music is far less interesting than what has come before.

[Mayhem]

Supposedly, mainland Chinese attitudes about people of African descent are less than favorable, and this film has a prominent romance between a black guy and a Chinese girl.
Except she’s not Chinese, she is of Vietnamese decent.

[Spike Spiegel]

Except she’s not Chinese, she is of Vietnamese decent.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/011/786/homer-simpson-doh.jpg

My bad.

[Vegita-San]

found this elsewhere, but it's a pretty good summary of why think men get a bad rap in disney wars
although he forgot maz who is now apparently a warrior soldier who handles 'disputes'...

>>>>>
I will probably ruffle some feathers here but now we have...

Han... who is dead..

Chewy, who looks like he is confused and just wants out..

Poe, who is a insubordinate Airman.

Finn, who is a "not so bright" ex FO Soldier.

Kylo, who seems to not know what is up or down and who has a face that makes you want to cry with him..yes, he looks like he is always about to cry..

Luke.. who has been a weakling, second guessing himself, scared and hiding, then only fights as a projection.

Hux, who is the worst "Empire/FO" commander.

Oh and Snoke..who was cut in half... weirdly...

And..............

Leia.. The "Queen Bee" of the resistance. Can do no wrong, even while frozen in space..

"Purple Hair" Vice Admiral Amilyn Holdo, a now hero, that sacrifices herself for the good of all.

Vulptex (crystal fox) that guides the way to safety

Rose who seems to be portrayed as a powerful, selfless fighter, who grew up poor and abused and is now rising, with strength and determination.....

Rey (our main character) an extremely fast learner of the Force in record time.

Hmmmmm... I bet the Vulptex was probably a female fox...

I'll put myself in timeout >>>

[CyberCubed]

Nobody cares.

[Vegita-San]

found this elsewhere..>
The Last Jedi Was estimated to come in 4th at the box office this weekend.
Box Office Mojo's revised estimate now have it coming in 7th just behind "The Greatest Showman" which was released only 5 days after Jedi.
>>>


if true, while TLJ is making lots of money, it's probably not doing as good as disney hoped with the suspense addition of luke skywalker.

[CyberCubed]

:lol:

It's at $1,237,997,584 worldwide gross now according to idmb. Vegita-san is still so desperately trying to make it out like this movie bombed or something, it's so pathetic at this point.

[Shark_Blade]

https://i.imgur.com/qIjd7xH.gif

We all gasped in horror. :tlol:

[Candy Kappa]

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/images/articles/banners/156447.jpg

[Vegita-San]

i don't know who the hell that is, but it could be a clone of harold ramis.

[Candy Kappa]

That's Kylo himself :P

FaOSCASqLsE

[Vegita-San]

huh. looks like a totally different person even without the fake hair.

[Shark_Blade]

'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' Now Among Top Ten Highest Grossing Movies Of All Time Worldwide
http://comicbook.com/starwars/amp/2018/01/14/star-wars-the-last-jedi-box-office/

[CyberCubed]

'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' Now Among Top Ten Highest Grossing Movies Of All Time Worldwide
http://comicbook.com/starwars/amp/2018/01/14/star-wars-the-last-jedi-box-office/

Cue Vegita-san trying to downplay this in some fashion saying Disney didn't make much money. :lol:

[Vegita-San]

just cause it makes money doesn't make it good.

just means lots of bored people out there

[plastroncafe]

It may interest some in this thread to know that an MRA group has made a Supercut of this movie which removes all the female characters.

So should they get an itch to rewatch it, they can shave 45 minutes off the run time with that version.

[Utrommaniac]

https://media1.tenor.com/images/f4616ad8094a2db8a66caa0d1f0dfaf5/tenor.gif?itemid=5848246
Just watch them complain about being unable to get dates with a straight face. I'm not surprised by how thin-skinned they are, nor am I surprised they'd do that, but still...wow.

[newfan]

Well, even those who didn't like it didn't know that until they raced out to see it, I suppose the success of this will be determined by how fast people race out to see the next one ... is it 2 years again? Still, besides the people who really hated this one and have washed their hands of it I can still see many (who weren't too keen maybe) going to see the next even out of curiosity to see where they go with the story.

Edit: wait, just looking at the post above (got in before mine), I thought Plaston's post was a joke?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

It may interest some in this thread to know that an MRA group has made a Supercut of this movie which removes all the female characters.

So should they get an itch to rewatch it, they can shave 45 minutes off the run time with that version.

You're kidding...

[plastroncafe]

Oh no, that's the thing that's been done.
I like to think of myself as funny and clever on occasion, but even I'm not so good as to be able to write something that hysterically funny.

https://twitter.com/BBW_BFF/status/953106797878960128

https://www.pedestrian.tv/entertainment/last-jedi-mra-fan-edit-women/

Full disclosure, this could be satire.
But if it is, it rings really highly on the Poe Scale.

[sdp]

I do think Plastron isn't joking, people have taken it to themselves to make it political as to why they might not like the new Star Wars. Blaming racism in China is dumb, Rogue One didn't perform well either, the Chinese market is weird and Hollywood doesn't understand it yet. Are they racists? Sure, but what nation doesn't bully the minorities of said nation? You can find that everywhere, no reason to demonize the culture.

I didn't like the movie. I didn't like TFA, I was clearly alone with that sentiment when the movie was released and it took over a year for people to start agreeing with me. This movie people are fairly evenly split 50/50 and yet the ones who like it keep trying to come up with excuses as to why "most people like it" and it's only a "minority" that dislike it. Why? If you like it cool but why lie to yourself and lie to others to make them think that "everyone" loves it.

[Vegita-San]

I do think Plastron isn't joking, people have taken it to themselves to make it political as to why they might not like the new Star Wars.

because the very same people making these movies ARE making it political themselves.

add to that all the feminist click bait articles..

first ghostbusters, then Supergirl, now star wars, nothing is safe.

that being said, the very NOTION of a Mens Rights Activist organization is stupid as hell. I prefer a more No'Maam approach. protecting guys rights to be guys. ;o)...

Having so many women in it isn't the problem. it's how those women and men around them are WRITTEN that is the problem. I'd love to see Timothy Zahn re write these movies with totally different scenarios, but using the exact same characters, and I Bet you the movie would be awesome.

[plastroncafe]

I can't help but wonder how little one is paying attention to the media they're ingesting to not see the liberal political leanings inherent in the plot of the original trilogy.

[sdp]

because the very same people making these movies ARE making it political themselves.

You literally do the exact same thing Plastron does but on the opposite side of the political spectrum, look at yourself. Most of your posts only gives the other side ammunition.


I can't help but wonder how little one is paying attention to the media they're ingesting to not see the liberal political leanings inherent in the plot of the original trilogy.

I quite enjoy the political leanings in the OT and PT, hell I didn't even notice the feminism inserted into TFA until pointed out, that wasn't my problem with the movie, but I already posted my thoughts on the movie. The politicizing of Star War I refer to is this:


Let’s Face It, You Hate The Last Jedi Because You Hate Women
(http://disinfo.com/2018/01/lets-face-hate-last-jedi-hate-women/)

Star Wars: The Last Jedi Offers the Harsh Condemnation of Mansplaining We Need in 2017
(https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/12/star-wars-last-jedi-laura-dern-admiral-holdo-listen-to-women)

Alt-Right Group Takes Credit for ‘The Last Jedi’ Backlash, Bashes ‘Star Wars’ For Including More Women
(http://www.indiewire.com/2017/12/star-wars-last-jedi-backlash-alt-right-female-characters-1201910095/) [Later Proven False (https://screenrant.com/rotten-tomatoes-last-jedi-user-score/)] [apologists double down on it (https://www.polygon.com/2017/12/18/16792184/star-wars-the-last-jedi-rotten-tomatoes-review-bomb)] [Proven False Again]

(https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/2018/01/11/rotten-tomatoes-audience-score-for-star-wars-the-last-jedi-has-tumbled-to-a-rotten-49/#1911e1bf3f45)We Need to Talk About the Sexist Backlash Against Rey (Again), and Why She’s Awesome
(http://comicbook.com/starwars/2017/12/21/star-wars-the-last-jedi-daisy-ridley-mary-sue-rey/)

[plastroncafe]

I see that as a wholly different argument than the one vagita is trying to make.

Meta criticism has always existed, and will always exist. The internet is the fabulous place where any argument can be made, which doesn't necessarily mean that every argument should be made, or that every argument is equal to every other.

The internet just tricks some people into believing that all opinions are created equal.

That said, our popular culture does not exist in a vacuum. It says things about us in the stories that it tells. And I believe there is some worth to parsing out the threads of those stories to uncover more truths about the world we live in.

But then, I'm an anthropologist.

[Vegita-San]

You literally do the exact same thing Plastron does but on the opposite side of the political spectrum, look at yourself. Most of your posts only gives the other side ammunition.


without getting further into that, Now you're just being insulting :D

the very fact that you didn't even notice what the movie was trying to do until it was pointed out shows we 'haters' aren't that far off the track on things..
the fact that some people don't like that point proven is their problem IMHO.

those very same articles you linked are ALL a part of the larger problem. 'nu fans' or click baiters, trying to bring their world into the world of nerds and ruining it for everyone else. when this movie is done, they'll move on to the next one to try and bring their level of hate into that fandom.

the women in the movie arn't the problem. it's how those women and men around them are written that is the problem.

[plastroncafe]

The world ain't your safe space, my dude.
And neither is fandom.

[CyberCubed]

Go away, Vegita-san. It's hard to believe this guy is 40 years old too.

[dl316bh]

You're kidding...
It's worse than Plastron is making it sound. It doesn't shave forty five minutes off, the entire cut is forty five minutes. In order to make it a "man friendly movie", they cut anything that made women look good or had them in a position where they accomplished things, meaning they had to cut an hour and a half of the movie. It sounds like incoherent nonsense where they had to edit things so Poe seems to be the one doing the Holdo maneuver. They had to axe so much I don't get why they even bothered, except to prove some nebulous point.

Blaming racism in China is dumb, Rogue One didn't perform well either, the Chinese market is weird and Hollywood doesn't understand it yet. Are they racists? Sure, but what nation doesn't bully the minorities of said nation? You can find that everywhere, no reason to demonize the culture.
... No one was demonizing them? It was more someone simply brought up the general xenophobia of the region, which is absolutely a thing, and how that might relate. Which there's a good chance it doesn't, if only because of occams razor. The simplest explanation with all the evidence is that China simply doesn't care about Star Wars.

I prefer a more No'Maam approach. protecting guys rights to be guys. ;o)...

I'd love to see Timothy Zahn re write these movies with totally different scenarios, but using the exact same characters, and I Bet you the movie would be awesome.
I enjoy Married... With Children as much as anyone, but you do realize that show was satire, right? It made jokes out of that type of manly man and general behavior and had Al and Bud both as total buffoons. No Ma'am itself was shown as a pathetic joke. You end up liking Al anyway mainly because Ed O'Neill is pretty great and the show was funny.

As for Zahn, always possible. They actually have him writing new books now, I believe. But he'd probably be more story treatment and such. Writing a novel and writing a script/film are different skillsets.

I can't help but wonder how little one is paying attention to the media they're ingesting to not see the liberal political leanings inherent in the plot of the original trilogy.
The prequels, too. Hell, all three films are essentially about the rise of authoritarianism and a fascist government. With bombast, of course - it's still a space opera with laser swords, space dogfights and mystic powers - but some of it's really on the nose. Hell, at the time, some outlets in the news were flipping out about them because they were perceived as pointed shots at the then-ongoing Bush administration and the direction of the country at the time.

I feel like Lucas never talked in any real depth about the series, but his intentions were pretty clear with the "politics" of his six.

[Autbot_Benz]

It may interest some in this thread to know that an MRA group has made a Supercut of this movie which removes all the female characters.

So should they get an itch to rewatch it, they can shave 45 minutes off the run time with that version.

Did Vegita-San help make this since he has a Impotent slap fight on women?

[Vegita-San]

I enjoy Married... With Children as much as anyone, but you do realize that show was satire, right? It made jokes out of that type of manly man and general behavior and had Al and Bud both as total buffoons. No Ma'am itself was shown as a pathetic joke. You end up liking Al anyway mainly because Ed O'Neill is pretty great and the show was funny.

As for Zahn, always possible. They actually have him writing new books now, I believe. But he'd probably be more story treatment and such. Writing a novel and writing a script/film are different skillsets.
.

hence the bad attempt at a joke I wasn't sure many would get.

Has zahn ever done a movie novelization before? I would think the two wouldn't be that different.

[dl316bh]

hence the bad attempt at a joke I wasn't sure many would get.
My bad. I didn't realize it was meant to be a joke. This is not sarcasm.

Has zahn ever done a movie novelization before? I would think the two wouldn't be that different.
Oh, you want a movie novelization where he has free reign to change things around. I misunderstood. That's different. As far as I know, he hasn't, but that falls more into his expertise and he could probably do it.

[Vegita-San]

Did Vegita-San help make this since he has a war on women?

cue off the ignore list for a second, and there is the point many seem to miss.just to try and prove THEIR point.

If you pay attention to my posts.. I don't have a problem with women in movies. I have a problem with how women and the men around them are PORTRAYED in certain movies. and the press that surrounds those movies. and how the people who write these movies react to things. and all the blasted click bait articles trying to anger people about these movies.

I'll re explain this 10 pages down for those who choose to ignore this.

[plastroncafe]

Did Vegita-San help make this since he has a war on women?

Wars a bit severe, isn't it?
Impotent slap fight seems more appropriate.

[Autbot_Benz]

Wars a bit severe, isn't it?
Impotent slap fight seems more appropriate.

ok changed it from wars to Impotent slap fight on women :lol:

[Vegita-San]

case in point.

sigh. can we get any more childish?


see why I take offense, sdp? :)

[Sumac]

Let’s Face It, You Hate The Last Jedi Because You Hate Women (http://disinfo.com/2018/01/lets-face-hate-last-jedi-hate-women/)
/facepalm

Tell me it's a joke article. If not I wonder how drunk on "liberal kool-aid" one must be to seriously write garbage like this?
I haven't seen the movie, but if I would had and I wouldn't like it due to problems not related to Rey's character, would I become a woman-hater?

The world ain't your safe space, my dude.
And neither is fandom.
Mind if I remind you that world is not safe space of yours too.
Just for clarity. :P

[Vegita-San]

it wouldn't fit the men are evil agenda, and thus would be ignored.

[plastroncafe]

/facepalm
Mind if I remind you that world is not safe space of yours too.
Just for posterity. :P

Unless they're worded as eloquently as all the rape and death threats I've gotten over the years, I'd suggest you save the key strokes and not bother.

[CyberCubed]

it wouldn't fit the men are evil agenda, and thus would be ignored.

How do you even believe what you're saying? Seriously?

[sdp]

I was just thinking how both Lucas and Laird who were so protective of their creations ended up selling to someone who pretty much stepped on all their believes of what the franchise should be, it doesn't matter if you think it's for the better or the worse, it's still ironic.

as all the rape and death threats I've gotten over the years.

Boohoo, who hasn't gotten horrible harassment online? That doesn't make you a victim or special. It's as old as the internet and it comes inherent with anonymity and the pros of it outweigh the cons. If it's too much to handle then "casuals" shouldn't be using the internet but instead they'll whine about it.

[plastroncafe]

Boohoo, who hasn't gotten horrible harassment online? That doesn't make you a victim or special. It's as old as the internet and it comes inherent with anonymity and the pros of it outweigh the cons. If it's too much to handle then "casuals" shouldn't be using the internet but instead they'll whine about it.

Calm your tits.
A) I was getting such things before the internet was a household staple.
B) I brought it up to illustrate that I don't need reminding that the world isn't a Safe Space.
C) And even if I did need reminding, chances are good internet randos won't be around when I need them the most.
Like...last night, offline, when I was harassed walking in my neighborhood by the two drunk townie dudebros who followed me for six blocks.

[Andrew NDB]

A) I was getting such things before the internet was a household staple.

She's not wrong. I remember very well the fervor you started like 20 years ago. :)