Star Wars Episode 8

[Andrew NDB]

I love the message it's hammering home ("Let the past die.") but I hate the story it tells to say it. I think it's a poor choice to choose the second movie of a trilogy to take that stance.

I'd mind it a lot less if they bothered to make the present interesting, compelling, or at least coherent first.

[Vegita-San]

I'd mind it a lot less if they bothered to make the present interesting, compelling, or at least coherent first.

Careful, people will start claiming you hate women next.
It's the new disease that's hitting the internet.

Or at least stop referring to the very thing they think should die, because it's the past. hypocritical line at best. Everything they DO is a call back to episode 4, I.e. the past.

[raph27]

I'm almost afraid to watch it again. Loved it in theaters, but now looking back there's a lot I've changed my mind about and I feel like I might hate it on a second viewing.

I'm still standing firm that Luke's storyline was great. All the talk about "assassination of character"... I can see where they're coming from I guess, and maybe it's because I was always more of a Han fan, but this movie expanded on Luke in ways that were plausible and frankly made him a lot more interesting to me than the deux ex machina super warlord it seems some fans wanted.

Rey is just meh for me. I hope something interesting happens with her character in IX. Right now she just isn't connecting with me. Same goes for Poe. He was almost a side character in TFA, then this movie tried to make him more important, but it still didn't seem to do enough. Honestly the most interesting new character is Ben.

The whole scene at the end with Finn and Rose and the speeders was just bad. Flat out bad. I won't even try and defend it.

[sdp]

I left my first view of The Force Awakens confused, even though I had loved it I didn't feel crazy excited after leaving the cinema. On my way home I realized I did not like it and was only fooling myself into it but I wasn't sure. I re-watched it again a few weeks later only to realize I disliked the movie. I did not feel like watching it before watching The Last Jedi.

With Rogue One, I felt it was unecessary but an ok movie, I don't really feel like re-watching it ever again.

With this The Last Jedi I knew I disliked it and don't feel like I want to watch it again.

I'm sure before Episode IX comes out I'll either rewatch all 8 films before it or if I'm really not in the SW mood just force myself to watch 7/8 to at least see if it has some coherence between this sequel trilogy.

[Sumac]

I'd mind it a lot less if they bothered to make the present interesting, compelling, or at least coherent first.
Beautifully formulated.
Saved to my personal notebook of pretty thoughts.

[Vegita-San]

C95o0MRzBVs

yep. no contradictions here.

my god, all you have to do is think a little about t his mess and boom. it makes ZERO sense. all of it .

[plastroncafe]

just ignore what you don't like rather than obsessing over it and move on with your life.

[Cure]

just ignore what you don't like rather than obsessing over it and move on with your life.

Half the people on these forums can heed this advice.

[Metalwolf]

I left my first view of The Force Awakens confused, even though I had loved it I didn't feel crazy excited after leaving the cinema. On my way home I realized I did not like it and was only fooling myself into it but I wasn't sure. I re-watched it again a few weeks later only to realize I disliked the movie. I did not feel like watching it before watching The Last Jedi.

With Rogue One, I felt it was unecessary but an ok movie, I don't really feel like re-watching it ever again.

With this The Last Jedi I knew I disliked it and don't feel like I want to watch it again.

I'm sure before Episode IX comes out I'll either rewatch all 8 films before it or if I'm really not in the SW mood just force myself to watch 7/8 to at least see if it has some coherence between this sequel trilogy.I remember having liked TFA somewhat, but feeling irritated at Rey's meteoric rise in power, it felt so unnaturally 'quick' and convenient. Luke in the first movie was just in the initial steps of learning to let the Force guide him and learning to 'feel' through the Force, Anakin showed a little power but it was through mild precognition and some quick reflexes. Both had people telling them what the Force was, and both teachers were Jedi Masters. Even then neither student were badass dynamos, and in their second movies both got a hand cut off for thinking they were hot stuff. Rey ends up beating a highly trained Force user, second movie ends up beating Luke and Snoke's personal guards, and has Yoda declare she doesn't need to learn anything more.

I didn't like Rey. It's not because she's a woman (I'm a woman too) it's because she is what ersatz feminism looks like, a cheap character that is overpowered and underdeveloped and pushes easy buttons for 'wow' while ultimately disrespecting what feminism stands for . She is not put through the learning process and initial weakness that the men are, or have severe setbacks like having one's hand chopped off. That is not true equality. True equality is not treating your female characters like fragile glass or expecting your female audience to faint at hard parts in this character's journey. I think this Rey character was designed to not need honest to God 'icky bits' in her story, because I wonder if the corporate office thinks women couldn't handle her getting scarred or her having a hand chopped off.




I think the only way a dissenter could preserve their love of Star Wars at this point is to disregard these new movies as 'canon,' although keeping whatever bits and pieces one did enjoy in the new movies as much as possible. It's what I learned over the years, even as you get the rabid fans that insist everything 'must' be canon and the franchise heading into the direction of suck.

[Vegita-San]

Considering some women are AFRAID to stand up against movies like this. or are Afraid to dislike movies like Black Panther because people will thinkthey are this or that and all these other things.. I make it a point to say thank you for being b rave enough to say the truth.

The more people do, maybe the more hollywood will realize their 'fake feminism' message isn't selling and it's driving people away. If they really care about the bottom line, they'll get back to what works and leave their preaching at the door. But somehow I doubt it.

Even The Flash isn't safe from this nonsense. I had a back log of episodes from October to watch, and the first one was that stupid femenism episode. they actually SAID 'Hashtag Feminism' like they where hoping it'd get trending on twitter. take that crap out of the episode and it would have been pretty cool.


sigh.

[Metalwolf]

Considering some women are AFRAID to stand up against movies like this. or are Afraid to dislike movies like Black Panther because people will thinkthey are this or that and all these other things.. I make it a point to say thank you for being b rave enough to say the truth.

The more people do, maybe the more hollywood will realize their 'fake feminism' message isn't selling and it's driving people away. If they really care about the bottom line, they'll get back to what works and leave their preaching at the door. But somehow I doubt it.

Even The Flash isn't safe from this nonsense. I had a back log of episodes from October to watch, and the first one was that stupid femenism episode. they actually SAID 'Hashtag Feminism' like they where hoping it'd get trending on twitter. take that crap out of the episode and it would have been pretty cool.


sigh.Well, I've seen plenty of women Youtubers loudly criticise this movie, along with many Black Youtubers unabashedly calling Finn a 'Step-n-Fetchit' character. So I don't think the fear is there. I think it's more like people quietly turning away from Star Wars, and not bothering to voice their opinion, or the fact that Kathleen Kennedy and Daisy Ridley like to call people sexist for not liking the (very badly written) women characters.

It also doesn't help that this movie has it's legion of rabid fans, and they won't hesitate to tell you how you aren't 'getting it' somehow and that you need to watch it more to get a second opinion. No matter that China dropped it early on, and that Rotten Tomatoes showed an abysmal rating from anyone who wasn't a paid movie critic.

So people barely bother, and I don't blame them. The producers are in la la land and few critics want to be hounded by rabid fans. Youtubers don't mind the negativity, but then they are used to clearing out reams of butthurt from their comment section.

[plastroncafe]

I think the only way a dissenter could preserve their love of Star Wars at this point is to disregard these new movies as 'canon,' although keeping whatever bits and pieces one did enjoy in the new movies as much as possible. It's what I learned over the years, even as you get the rabid fans that insist everything 'must' be canon and the franchise heading into the direction of suck.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Transformative Fandom.

[Vegita-San]

well, at least people are getting braver, and less scared of a plastron like rebuke :).

I didn't know Daisy Ridley was also going the feminist route. Well, like Benoist before her, cuteness just went totally out the window. sigh.

[plastroncafe]

OrSo this whole time people were being quiet about things that didn't work for them because they were afraid I was going to invite them to the wonderful world of transformative fandom?

No need to be nervous, fanbros!
I understand that conservation fandom is a calling, but there is absolutely nothing to be a feared. Come over to the transformative fandom side of things, we have all the good smut.

Which means that they'll be at least one other person out there who actually does care about your boner.

[Metalwolf]

OrSo this whole time people were being quiet about things that didn't work for them because they were afraid I was going to invite them to the wonderful world of transformative fandom?

Not really. What I mean is the dogpiling that occurs and the insistent posts that don't ever agree to disagree. Plus it's not just the initial unhappy fan that stops bothering, it's the other people that would have posted their opinions on the movie that see how others are treated, so they don't bother to wade into that lion's den.


For this movie, while we might be (slowly) moving past the era of the damsel in distress and the giggling bimbo who jiggles her tits, we're moving into the era where movie producers think women are 'content' with a poorly written Mary Sue. It's still patronizing, but at a whole different angle.

[plastroncafe]

I think it's debatable that Rey is a Sue, poorly written or not.
But that's a great debate to have, and it's kind of exciting to be able to even have that debate at all.

But I totally agree that there are segments of the powers-that-be that think a bechdel pass suddenly makes their movie, or their portrayal of female characters, suddenly not dreck.

I just find it interesting what this board picks and chooses as acceptable minority opinions.

[Vegita-San]

Not really. What I mean is the dogpiling that occurs and the insistent posts that don't ever agree to disagree. Plus it's not just the initial unhappy fan that stops bothering, it's the other people that would have posted their opinions on the movie that see how others are treated, so they don't bother to wade into that lion's den.


For this movie, while we might be (slowly) moving past the era of the damsel in distress and the giggling bimbo who jiggles her tits, we're moving into the era where movie producers think women are 'content' with a poorly written Mary Sue. It's still patronizing, but at a whole different angle.

Last part, I thought we've LONG since moved past that part. almost since the era of Princess Leia and Ripley. although granted there was still a little of it hanging around in the form of the likes of kelly bundy.

For the former.... exactly.

People refuse to ignore those they disagree with, and have to either trash them, or constantly harrumph anything they say. Other people see that hostility, and boom, avoid it all together. I've had cube on ignore for years and never reply to him. yet I still get told 'what the hell you talkin' about willis' every now and then when i see it in quotes :/.... will never understand that. they are basically talking to thin air.

[Spike Spiegel]

The deleted scenes greatly improve certain things.

juYDGDEIGVk

I hope there's a "special edition" in the future.

[CyberCubed]

I loved that scene, just watched all the deleted scenes. Finn actually has the most amount of scenes cut for him.

I loved Luke's chuckle there, "You ran so fast." lol.

[Vegita-San]

I sometimes wonder what career ending goodies a sony level hack on the star wars email server would deliver to fans.

probably everything confirmed and then some.

that pirate raiding scene actually felt like some kind of attempt at character development and should have been left in. but, can't have perfect rey make a mistake, can we?

[AT-Man]

but, can't have perfect rey make a mistake, can we?

How was it a mistake? She thought there were people in need of help.

[Vegita-San]

But she mis judged the situation and was wrong. and looked ridiculous doing it. can't have that character growth in there...now can we?

[Spike Spiegel]

They got Hamill back for this.

G2U_H5dFKH0

[Vegita-San]

fake yoda is getting better.

looks like luke is wearing lipstick. :/. fugly animation. disney can do better.

And besides, isn't that the series that was supposed to be all women power? what happened to that?

[newfan]

They got Hamill back for this.


That was a funny clip, Hamill still has a recognisable voice for young Luke too.

[Autbot_Benz]

got my steelbook exclusive today

https://i.imgur.com/tb0YS0O.jpg

[AT-Man]

But she mis judged the situation and was wrong. and looked ridiculous doing it. can't have that character growth in there...now can we?

You seem to have different opinion on what looks ridiculous. She was lied to and she tried to do the right thing, that's far from ridiculous.

While we're at it, Rey did look ridiculous while she was "reaching out", which was pretty funny.

[Vegita-San]

You seem to have different opinion on what looks ridiculous. She was lied to and she tried to do the right thing, that's far from ridiculous.

While we're at it, Rey did look ridiculous while she was "reaching out", which was pretty funny.

Maybe. but it's still a mistake.

[Spike Spiegel]

Maybe. but it's still a mistake.

Dude, seriously...

https://i.imgur.com/y8Ea8jB.gif

Did some girl who strongly resembles Daisy Ridley bully you when you were a kid or something?

[Vegita-San]

SMH.



When you figure out how SJW's think....you'll see a reason why a fun little scene like that was cut, and yet they left in luke milking a space cow. obviously that was far more important than character development.

I personally have no problem with the scene myself, and feel it SHOULD have been left in.

[CyberCubed]

Can you honestly go more than a few posts without mentioning "SJW's" or what women think?

[plastroncafe]

The hyperfocusing is a bit worrisome.

[AT-Man]

If that scene had been left in, it would have made Luke look like an as*hole. Everyone already thinks he got completely ruined, so why not a little more.

[Spike Spiegel]

If that scene had been left in, it would have made Luke look like an as*hole. Everyone already thinks he got completely ruined, so why not a little more.

I thought he was encouraging her to be active as opposed to being passive. What she did was what she was "supposed" to do in Luke's view, as opposed what the Jedi traditions would have suggested in terms of keeping balance and such.

It would have been the only time we saw Luke smile or laugh if it had been left in the film.

[Vegita-San]

If that scene had been left in, it would have made Luke look like an as*hole. Everyone already thinks he got completely ruined, so why not a little more.

I don't see it quite as him being a jerk.

he was using it as a lesson to show rey the jedi ways. Only he's been closed off from the world for so long, and un caring about anything, that he's forgotten how head strong young people like he was used to be. and her reaction kind of surprised him. hence 'I didn't expect you to go charging off'...

if anything, it showed how un caring luke has become in his isolation (even if HE knew it was just a party).

[Shark_Blade]

Laura Dern Confirms Admiral Holdo is Force-Sensitive in THE LAST JEDI
https://t.co/CVUPWGkLV5?amp=1

Audiences learned the extent of Leia Organa's abilities with the Force in The Last Jedi, as she managed to propel herself through zero-gravity to return to her ship after a devastating explosion. The film also brought a new character into the Resistance with Vice Admiral Amilyn Holdo, who helped maintain the safety of her allies by potentially sacrificing herself in a heroic move that eviscerated the First Order. Actress Laura Dern recently confirmed that, while her abilities weren't on display the same way of Leia's, Holdo shared a connection with the Force that motivated her actions.

“In their minds, and in their understanding of the origin story, we know that she was a true rebel in the Resistance, and in our culture we might have called her a hippie,” Dern shared with Entertainment Weekly about her collaboration with the Lucasfilm team on developing her character's motivations. “But she was longing for peace, and a revolutionary in that way, and wanted to be trained by and led by Leia, who taught her everything she knew. She wanted to come up in the ranks to support Leia’s mission, but also had this otherworldly side that does involve the Force.”

Holdo debuted in the novel Leia, Princess of Alderaan, where her exploits with Organa are explored more in-depth than in The Last Jedi. Audiences might not have picked up on her ways with the Force, yet fans who read the novel knew quite well her belief in the concept.

“There’s something about her that longs to protect it, and holds that with great care,” Dern pointed out. “There’s a sort of a light on and a wisdom that she speaks about in the film, and speaks to Oscar Isaac’s character briefly about it.”

Her connection with the Force could also help explain her motives in her sacrifice, as she was possibly aware that life extended past a corporeal form.

“Yeah, her primary goal was to protect the light, to protect the Force, and to keep the revolutionaries alive,” Dern admitted. “And I think the film speaks so beautifully to that with this last image of the next generation of the Resistance, you know?”

[Vegita-San]

Do I file this in the WTF cares department... Or the 'Why Even Bring it up' Department? Or the PlotHole 101 department?


The more this disaster tries to bring out, the more it keeps piling on.

[Autbot_Benz]

Do I file this in the WTF cares department... Or the 'Why Even Bring it up' Department? Or the PlotHole 101 department?


The more this disaster tries to bring out, the more it keeps piling on.

You are obsessed with hating this movie you need help. You are like an abuse victim going back to the abuser

[Krutch]

I still don't think enough people are talking about the fishing scene.

Can someone explain to me the benefit of jousting onto a tiny ledge to lift a 100 foot spear is just to stab fish? How can he even see the fish from up there? How can he even lift that thing? Isn't he needlessly putting his life on the line every time he foes fishing? Doesn't he have a lightsaber and is surrounded by tasty Porgs? Couldn't the caretakers provide him with some form of dinner? And don't say he uses the Force because he admits he's cut himself off from it.

Seriously. I couldn't stop thinking about that scene for the rest of the movie when I first saw it. I know theres bigger issues with the movie than this, but still...Why???

[Vegita-San]

I still don't think enough people are talking about the fishing scene.

Can someone explain to me the benefit of jousting onto a tiny ledge to lift a 100 foot spear is just to stab fish? How can he even see the fish from up there? How can he even lift that thing? Isn't he needlessly putting his life on the line every time he foes fishing? Doesn't he have a lightsaber and is surrounded by tasty Porgs? Couldn't the caretakers provide him with some form of dinner? And don't say he uses the Force because he admits he's cut himself off from it.

Seriously. I couldn't stop thinking about that scene for the rest of the movie when I first saw it. I know theres bigger issues with the movie than this, but still...Why???


you mentally ill woman hating monster. get the help you so sorely need...

Wait, you didn't talk about women? how come that's all I see when I see posts about this movie?

Sorry, just joining the crazy club. seems the thing to do these days. continue on. lots wrong about this movie to discuss :).

[Andrew NDB]

I still don't think enough people are talking about the fishing scene.

Can someone explain to me the benefit of jousting onto a tiny ledge to lift a 100 foot spear is just to stab fish? How can he even see the fish from up there? How can he even lift that thing? Isn't he needlessly putting his life on the line every time he foes fishing? Doesn't he have a lightsaber and is surrounded by tasty Porgs? Couldn't the caretakers provide him with some form of dinner? And don't say he uses the Force because he admits he's cut himself off from it.

Seriously. I couldn't stop thinking about that scene for the rest of the movie when I first saw it. I know theres bigger issues with the movie than this, but still...Why???

Or just Force-levitate out all the fish he wants into a bowl. Oh, right, he swore off the Force for some reason.

[Autbot_Benz]

Mark Hamill wishes scene of Luke mourning Han's Death had been in the movie over the drinking the alien titty milk scene

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_wars/star-wars-the-last-jedi-honest-trailer-released-as-mark-hamill-lashes-out-at-the-movie-again-a159056

[Andrew NDB]

"Forget the past!"

Going into Last Jedi I was figuring the only good reason they'd have for not having a time lapse for the first time in Star Wars' history was to allow for some "OT characters mourning Han." And they didn't even do that.

Come to think of it, a 5 year time lapse between 7 and 8 might have added a lot to things.

[Autbot_Benz]

The Luke Mourning Han is a deleted scene from what I have heard that is on the blu ray

[Andrew NDB]

The Luke Mourning Han is a deleted scene from what I have heard that is on the blu ray

But, like, why would he even be the only one? And even Lando couldn't be bothered?

[ranger_scout]

Star Wars: The Last Jedi was of course the most profitable film of 2017 with $417.5 million. However, it beat Beauty and the Beast by only $3 million.

http://deadline.com/2018/03/star-wars-the-last-jedi-box-office-movie-profits-1202351603/

[CyberCubed]

Remember when Vegita-san was trying to claim this movie was failing. :lol:

[Shark_Blade]

Star Wars: The Last Jedi was of course the most profitable film of 2017 with $417.5 million. However, it beat Beauty and the Beast by only $3 million.

http://deadline.com/2018/03/star-wars-the-last-jedi-box-office-movie-profits-1202351603/

Thanks to Luke drinking alien titties milk and Ren’s huge boobs. :D

[Andrew NDB]

Star Wars: The Last Jedi was of course the most profitable film of 2017 with $417.5 million. However, it beat Beauty and the Beast by only $3 million.

http://deadline.com/2018/03/star-wars-the-last-jedi-box-office-movie-profits-1202351603/

It's presently the 9th highest grossing movie of all time, in the history of forever.

It made a lot of money.

[Sumac]

"Forget the past!"
But you see, this movie was such a clever and amazing deconstruction and aimed straight at the heart of this horrible manchildren-fanboys, which, of course, couldn't handle it and started hating this movie...say people who liked this movie to the point that they act like the very fanboys, they make fun about. :lol:

[Andrew NDB]

But you see, this movie was such a clever and amazing deconstruction and aimed straight at the heart of this horrible manchildren-fanboys, which, of course, couldn't handle it and started hating this movie...say people who liked this movie to the point that they act like the very fanboys, they make fun about. :lol:

I like the people that refused to venture an opinion about the film and waited... until they heard enough consensus from the Left as to whether or not they're supposed to like it or not so they can have time to rehearse the narrative. And then what do you know... they like it.

[sdp]

I like the people that refused to venture an opinion about the film and waited... until they heard enough consensus from the Left as to whether or not they're supposed to like it or not so they can have time to rehearse the narrative. And then what do you know... they like it.

From what I saw online it does seem to be divided into four categories:

Those who like it.
Those who dislike it.
Those who like it because it fits their political agenda.
Those who dislike it because it doesn't fit their political agenda.

Because of the latter two any criticisms are just disregarded, or at least they were until they couldn't control the amount of normal folk who dislike it was so big.

Yes, the movie made a lot of money but it didn't make anywhere near The Force Awakens money which they expected. Many licensees were not happy with the numbers even if they were likely good, Hasbro being one of them.

[Sumac]

I like the people that refused to venture an opinion about the film and waited... until they heard enough consensus from the Left as to whether or not they're supposed to like it or not so they can have time to rehearse the narrative. And then what do you know... they like it.
I hate when people do that. Hypocrisy of the highest caliber.

[Vegita-San]

Thanks to Luke drinking alien titties milk and Ren’s huge boobs. :D

you sick monster. may you get the help you need.

i mean, do people really think like this when reading comments like the above? :D must get awful stroke inducing after a while.

[Spike Spiegel]

The renewed discussion of this movie online after the home video release has already gotten stale and boring...

"I hate this! I loved that! This is overrated! You're not smart enough to get why this subversion of Trope X is so good! Rey is/isn't a Mary Sue! Holdo was/wasn't force sensitive!" Et cetera, et cetera...

Shouldn't some hardcore videophile have shelled out a more palatable "fan cut" that includes the deleted scenes and shortens the Canto Bight sequence by now? The prequels had a lot of those...

Also, I kind of wish Marvel would publish a comic based on Lucas' outlines, like Dark Horse did with "The Star Wars" several years ago.

[Vegita-San]

cause there isn't much to discuss!

If we had more interesting scenes like the pirate raid shot.....where you could discuss what luke was trying to teach...there might be some kind of discussion worthy of further talk.

but everything else has been said within the first month of the films release.

and why do a comic based on lucas treatments? If it turned out to be amazing, it'd delude what they are trying to do with their agenda films. big no no..

[plastroncafe]

I remember it being pretty "big news" when a superfan made an edit of this movie.

http://www.dorkly.com/post/85800/star-wars-the-last-jedi-mra-edit-no-women

[Spike Spiegel]

I remember it being pretty "big news" when a superfan made an edit of this movie.

http://www.dorkly.com/post/85800/star-wars-the-last-jedi-mra-edit-no-women

An "MRA edit," you say?

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/583/040/cff.png

Is this "transformative fandom" as well?

[plastroncafe]

That is an excellent question!
And I'd say that yes, it is.

Admittedly, it's transformative fandom from conservation fandom slant, but...if you turn right enough times you're bound to go left eventually.

[Sumac]

Also, I kind of wish Marvel would publish a comic based on Lucas' outlines, like Dark Horse did with "The Star Wars" several years ago.
Do you mean original treatment for episodes 7-9 as if the were supposed to be back in the 80-s, or episodes 7-9 as if they were supposed to be now?

Admittedly, it's transformative fandom from conservation fandom slant, but...if you turn right enough times you're bound to go left eventually.
And if you swing left too much you come out on a right side. :P

[Spike Spiegel]

Do you mean original treatment for episodes 7-9 as if the were supposed to be back in the 80-s, or episodes 7-9 as if they were supposed to be now?

Probably the latter...whichever outlines Kennedy and co. allegedly ignored.

[Autbot_Benz]

I remember it being pretty "big news" when a superfan made an edit of this movie.

http://www.dorkly.com/post/85800/star-wars-the-last-jedi-mra-edit-no-women

ah yes the Vegita-San Edit :lol:

[Andrew NDB]

Probably the latter...whichever outlines Kennedy and co. allegedly ignored.

What people forget is that Disney literally mandated Lucas to write outlines for 7-9 before they would agree to buy Star Wars from him. They did. So he did. And then they didn't use them, as was their right, of course. But they exist. Original writer Michael Arndt wrote a draft of 7 off of Lucas' notes for 7 and it never got filmed when Kathleen Kennedy and her Disney minders determined the outlines for 7-9 were "too much like the prequels" (i.e., not exactly like the original trilogy). Look it up. It's there.

I've seen so much, "Hah! POOOOOR George Lucas! They didn't use your stories, you loser! HAHAHA! What did you expect!!! Screw you for special editions!!! How does it feel now, after doing the Greedo scene wrong like that???" kind of stuff. But they don't have a clue the truth of the matter. He was only doing what was LEGALLY asked of him to complete the deal. He didn't even write a script. And now we have not one but two shi**y ST movies.

[sdp]

Now that time has passed I feel like more and more people are open about not liking The Last Jedi and the Star Wars defense force seems to be dying down.

Not only that but I'm starting to see more people talk about how they're getting tired of so much Star Wars and that the sequel trilogy did not go the correct route.

Han Solo won't help the situation, I hope Star Wars fatigue comes sooner rather than later so Disney can salvage what they can and steer the ship another direction. It's too late for Ep. IX but maybe future projects after that can be affected positively.

I also don't remember where I read but in Lucas' version Luke was going to die until Ep. IX, the end of the "Skywalker" legacy.

[newfan]

I also don't remember where I read but in Lucas' version Luke was going to die until Ep. IX, the end of the "Skywalker" legacy.

I would have preferred that, give him chance to do more before he died....plus I'd feel better about the 3rd movie not being without all 3 of them, being as I thought it was a closing of their story as well as obviously the new characters. (course the Leia situation couldn't be helped)

[Andrew NDB]

I wouldn't have even cared if they killed off Luke in Episode 7 as long as it had pathos and was a satisfying end in itself.* His death in 7 might have even helped jumpstart stuff if it was sold well.

*Note: This would, of course, require him actually being in the movie more than 20 seconds.

[newfan]

I wouldn't have even cared if they killed off Luke in Episode 7 as long as it had pathos and was a satisfying end in itself.*

*Note: This would, of course, require him actually being in the movie more than 20 seconds.

Well at least they didn't have him fall of the cliff and end there. :lol::lol:

Mark didn't know for some time that he was only going to get that short scene at the end, after he'd been working hard on the weight loss.(not sure at what point he knew) I guess they didn't want to take away his motivation? or did they not know very early on that they only wanted to put him in at the end?

[Andrew NDB]

I'm not sure what he knew. Probably not much, but was probably sold promises of "We don't know what it will be yet, but this is the big lead-in to 8, where you'll be featured heavily! This is Han's moment to shine!"

So I was baited (successfully) into clicking on one of these click-bait Last Jedi things. But it actually brought up a good point. Why would Holdo -- or anyone of sound mind -- need to go down with the ship when probably any one of a hundred droids aboard could fulfill the very menial task of "pulling the lever"?

[Vegita-San]

Supposedly this 'sold out' on amazon.com in physical media copies.


drones out in force buying copies?

[CyberCubed]

Supposedly this 'sold out' on amazon.com in physical media copies.


drones out in force buying copies?

LOL, what the hell? Are you seriously in some sort of conspiracy theory that a incredibly popular movie and one of the best selling movies of 2017 and early 2018 wouldn't be sold out on blu-ray when it was just recently released? Why on earth would a Star Wars movie not sell out on blu-ray?

This is just sad at this point. What kind of person comes up with conspiracy theories that "drones" (whatever that means?) would be buying out a Star Wars movie on blu-ray and that's why it's selling? And not because you know...it's a Star Wars movie and fans who liked it are buying it.

[Autbot_Benz]

Supposedly this 'sold out' on amazon.com in physical media copies.


drones out in force buying copies?

OMG shut the **** up you worthless sad troll

https://i.imgur.com/TaQfeao.jpg

[raph27]

Supposedly this 'sold out' on amazon.com in physical media copies.


drones out in force buying copies?

Who would be funding these drones? Disney? You really think Disney is going to spend the money to buy up all the copies of their movie just to what, fuel perception that people liked this movie?

How much of it's box office gross was actually seats bought by robots in trenchcoats, in your opinion?

[Shark_Blade]

Rian Johnson Says 90 Percent of THE LAST JEDI Feedback He Receives is POSITIVE
http://comicbook.com/starwars/2018/04/03/star-wars-the-last-jedi-rian-johnson-backlash-positive-comments/

“There were death threats. It’s balanced by a few things — 90 percent of the stuff I got online was not only lovely and encouraging but phenomenally thoughtful," Johnson shared with the Standard. "Fans would send me essays on the movie. The other 10 percent is just loud and gets amplified. At first I was freaked out but then I realized the things people were angry about are the things I’m most proud about.”

While one interpretation of this anecdote is that a majority of fans enjoyed the film, this only accounts for the people directly addressing him and his film. It's entirely possible that there are thousands more comments lambasting the film without the filmmaker being brought in on the conversation.

[ProactiveMan]

Supposedly this 'sold out' on amazon.com in physical media copies.


drones out in force buying copies?

I bought a whole container load. I had to sell my car, and I'll be eating instant noodles for a few months, but it was worth it to give the impression that Star Wars is popular, just to annoy cranks on the internet.

Now if you'll excuse me, my noodles are ready.

[Sumac]

Probably the latter...whichever outlines Kennedy and co. allegedly ignored.
I've read that JJ and Johnson kind of based TFA and TLJ on some of the Lucas ideas. Not that they have used his draft word for word, just some general ideas, like Luke having female disciple.

I also don't remember where I read but in Lucas' version Luke was going to die until Ep. IX, the end of the "Skywalker" legacy.
It was the plan for the original Sequel Trilogy back in the 80s.
Also, from that drafts - Luke should've trained Leia as Jedi.

[Vegita-San]

I bought a whole container load. I had to sell my car, and I'll be eating instant noodles for a few months, but it was worth it to give the impression that Star Wars is popular, just to annoy cranks on the internet.

ah yes. the old, i don't like your opinion, so lets insult you reply.

file that away with cubes 'what the hell yo u talkin about' response.

[CyberCubed]

Everyone is disagreeing with you, Vegita-san, because you're essentially trolling. You're making a bizarre post that a movie as popular as Star Wars can't be sold out on blu-ray without "Disney sending drones" to buy it instead of people who liked the movie. Do you even realize how absurd and ridiculous you sound?

I honestly find it funny Vegita-san plays the victim when everyone in a thread calls him out on his trolling.

[Andrew NDB]

I've read that JJ and Johnson kind of based TFA and TLJ on some of the Lucas ideas. Not that they have used his draft word for word, just some general ideas, like Luke having female disciple.

Yeah, there's some concept art floating out there for the Arndt draft (which was going directly off Lucas' notes) of 7 that shows Luke in a similar place as in the JJ 7 and TLJ, being a hermit on a world in, like, a micro Jedi temple. With a female disciple, yes.

[sdp]

90% of the fans love the movie & Disney is buying the BRs from Amazon are both so stupid. It's a divisive film, 50/50 give or take, there isn't ageneral consensus for the most part yet besides that you may or may not like it.

[plastroncafe]

I'm just thinking about the 10% of folks who send Johnson death threats.
Imagine being so ... sensitive that when someone makes something you don't like, you threaten them with bodily harm.

It's really sad.

[Vegita-San]

90% of the fans love the movie & Disney is buying the BRs from Amazon are both so stupid. It's a divisive film, 50/50 give or take, there isn't ageneral consensus for the most part yet besides that you may or may not like it.

-Edit- Saw somewhere that supposedly amazon gets far less marvel copies than other retailers. not sure how true that is or not...but something to chew on.


maybe not drones buying up copies. but notice no one released sales numbers. disney could have released a limited amount in order to make it appear like it was doing better than it actually was. I wouldn't put that past them.

I only rented it myself. watched it once and done. maybe I'll rent it again when rifftrax releases their version. but other than that, i have no interest in owning it. first time for a star wars release.

there is just no point to this sequel trilogy. all of the same stuff rehashed. with new copy cut characters. ugh.

[Allio]

I know last year Disney and Amazon was having some *ick measuring contest. don't know if that's related.

[ProactiveMan]

ah yes. the old, i don't like your opinion, so lets insult you reply.

file that away with cubes 'what the hell yo u talkin about' response.

It’s not my fault champ; I’m a drone. I only say what Kathleen Kennedy programmed me to say.

I'm just thinking about the 10% of folks who send Johnson death threats.
Imagine being so ... sensitive that when someone makes something you don't like, you threaten them with bodily harm.

It's really sad.

I think some of them are just idiots who don’t know how to behave, and some of them are probably impaired in some way or another. The ones who are irrationally angry because they didn’t like the movie are indeed sad.

I suspect that they are the people who like to be known as ‘the Star Wars nut’. They tied a part of their identity to the property, and so they take the fact that they didn’t like the latest movie as a personal affront. They probably feel somewhat powerless as they have realised that they have no control over the thing upon which they have built their identity.

I guess the death threats are a primitive attempt at regaining the power they gave away. It’s not healthy, and the sooner they learn their lesson the better.

[Andrew NDB]

Posting, without comment:

http://www.highlander-community.com/rose.jpg

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Posting, without comment:

http://www.highlander-community.com/rose.jpg

Who even wants a toy of her? Rey, sure. Leia, sure. Purple-haired admiral, why not.

But did Rose do anything other than keep Finn from going out in a blaze of glory?

I haven't seen the film, so educate me. :trazz:

[Andrew NDB]

She liked the animals.

[Vegita-San]

it's not a badly done toy.

but the character. ugh. there's no reason to get it.

[plastroncafe]

There needs to be a reason for someone to make a Star Wars toy now? They made an action figure of a gonk droid.

[Shark_Blade]

Me before TLJ: I think I’m gonna like Rose.

Me after TLJ: I don’t like Rose.

[Andrew NDB]

I actually feel bad about Rose. I love the actress, I love her enthusiasm, I was touched when she broke down at the premiere, I love that there's toys of her, I wish she'd been in a better Star Wars movie... but... it's just such a hollow affair, given the movie itself.

[Shark_Blade]

Love the actress (she seems like a sweet heart), hate the character. I blame the writers.

[Vegita-San]

Love the actress (she seems like a sweet heart), hate the character. I blame the writers.

yep, agreed. it's a damn shame she's there only to token progressivism. and I think she knows it too. but, is probably too happy to get a big break like star wars to care.

[plastroncafe]

Love the actress (she seems like a sweet heart), hate the character. I blame the writers.

There's a lot to blame the writers for, but I quite liked Rose.
Little hamfisted Care-Bear Stare by the end of the movie, but up until that point I really appreciated what they were trying to do with her.

[CyberCubed]

I remember the actress saying she had never watched a Star Wars movie before being cast in this one. lol.

[raph27]

Honestly I really liked Rose until the whole thing on Crait happened.

But yeah, of course they'd make a toy of her. It's Star Wars, and she's even a main character. Toys have been the reason SW exists ever since ESB.

[Spike Spiegel]

I get the impression that the fanbase related fallout from TLJ has yet to be fully understood.

There are anti-TLJ echo chambers on YouTube and other social outlets, while every mainstream news article can't stop singing its praises.

The box office returns for Solo and IX should send a very clear message, one way or the other.

If the Mouse oversaturates the market with content and burns out the Star Wars brand for a while, I hope the supplementary things continue. I really like Rebels and the present line of comic books.

[Vegita-San]

I REALLY hope angry fans vote with their wallet.

and the budget SIGNIFICANTLY reflects that on release weekend.

otherwise, all the complaining means nothing.

[Andrew NDB]

Whether we vote with our wallets now or in the future, though... as much as I wish Kathleen Kennedy would say, "Hahaha... that was just a dry run, folks... the ACTUAL movies are still coming," episode VII and VIII are never going to go away. They're always going to be there.

And that's unfortunate.

[MikeandRaph87]

Whether we vote with our wallets now or in the future, though... as much as I wish Kathleen Kennedy would say, "Hahaha... that was just a dry run, folks... the ACTUAL movies are still coming," episode VII and VIII are never going to go away. They're always going to be there.

And that's unfortunate.

We don't agree on much, but this I agree wholeheartedly.

I am enjoying the current Star Wars comic that is,bwtween Episode 4 and 5 taking the original volume's place. How caout you?

The main irritation for me is hooking us on various things that we are made to look forward to and Luke tossing his first lightsaber as symbolism of what Kathleen Kennedy thinks of the fans.

[Andrew NDB]

I am enjoying the current Star Wars comic that is,bwtween Episode 4 and 5 taking the original volume's place. How caout you?

I've definitely checked out none of the "new EU."

[CyberCubed]

The main irritation for me is hooking us on various things that we are made to look forward to and Luke tossing his first lightsaber as symbolism of what Kathleen Kennedy thinks of the fans.

Rian Johnson came up with that idea, and I didn't see anything wrong with that. Having Luke gasp looking at his lightsaber and then start moaning about how much it meant to him would have been cliche and boring. Just like the people who wanted Rey to be Obi-wan's daughter or Luke's granddaughter or whatever. :lol:

[Andrew NDB]

I had no problem with the lightsaber thing, beyond it voiding the "unspoken conversation" they had in silence at the end of 7 for like 3 minutes. I laughed (though I was the only person in the theater who did).

We already have Kylo around to represent "the new generation of Skywalker" (which to me is important in the numbered movies... the side movies and spinoff stuff can do whatever, but what are the main movies if not the "Skywalker saga"? take that away, what separates it from the spinoff stuff?) so I don't super care if Rey was Luke's daughter or not (though I kind of wanted her to be). What I needed them to do is reveal her parentage or otherwise origins to explain how she was able to be as skilled as she was "out of the box" in 7. "They're just random people" would have been fine if Rey wasn't unnaturally Force skilled with no training in 7, but she was. As is, "they're just random people" is neither clever nor... anything, really.

[plastroncafe]

The main irritation for me is hooking us on various things that we are made to look forward to and Luke tossing his first lightsaber as symbolism of what Kathleen Kennedy thinks of the fans.

Some fans.
I really liked that part.

[Spike Spiegel]

The main irritation for me is hooking us on various things that we are made to look forward to and Luke tossing his first lightsaber as symbolism of what Kathleen Kennedy thinks of the fans.

If I were in his position, I'd probably get a PTSD-like flashback to getting my hand chopped off...but he seemed to be mostly over it and the Vader reveal by the next film.

I guess Luke's arc in TLJ works much better if you mostly ignore ROTJ. One of my friends from school only sees ANH and TESB as having real filmic merit (though he still borrowed my blu-rays of ROTJ and the prequels to watch before TFA came out) and he loved TLJ.

He's a film major in his mid-20s but kind of set in his ways when it comes to admiring older movies. He's never seen Ghostbusters II and the latest version of Blade Runner he's watched is the '91 director's cut. :P

[Vegita-San]

Whether we vote with our wallets now or in the future, though... as much as I wish Kathleen Kennedy would say, "Hahaha... that was just a dry run, folks... the ACTUAL movies are still coming," episode VII and VIII are never going to go away. They're always going to be there.

And that's unfortunate.

yep. but, at least the 'keyboard warriors' will send a very clear message that this is not what we want. hopefully they will learn a very expensive lesson.

[Andrew NDB]

yep. but, at least the 'keyboard warriors' will send a very clear message that this is not what we want. hopefully they will learn a very expensive lesson.

To be fair, they are listening. Everyone complained -- rightly so -- that 7 was a scene-for-scene company mandated remake. So with 8 they did the opposite... they just gave it to "some guy" who had done like 1 movie and let him do whatever. Unfortunately, the entire lack of oversight on 8 ended up hurting it almost as much as the "too much oversight" did on 7.

[Spike Spiegel]

Disappointed fans should just go though the stages of grief (https://grief.com/the-five-stages-of-grief/) with this franchise.

They don't owe us a certain kind of story any more than we owe them ticket sales. Lucasfilm/Disney are a corporate entity, run by individual creatives. That staff roster could change at any time. I personally don't like Dan Slott's soon-to-end run on the Spider-Man comics, but that hasn't made me hate the character. And after he leaves, I may end up buying the comics again.

Episodes I-VI are still a complete story, as are IV-VI or IV-V if you have a hateboner for Ewoks. It doesn't matter what version you watch, either. Clone Wars and Rebels are great, but you can take them or leave them. I personally prefer Ahsohka's arc to Ezra's.

All this compounded fan outrage on either side of any given issue is probably a big chunk of what made Lucas sell it all anyway. He's too old and too rich to have to listen to thirty somethings whine for the rest of his life.

[CyberCubed]

yep. but, at least the 'keyboard warriors' will send a very clear message that this is not what we want. .

Nobody cares what a bunch of 30-40+ year old manchildren think on internet forums. "Keyboard warriors" is not a term I would be using either, whatever the hell that means. Nowadays it's more like "youtubers" or "twitter people."

We're not in the early 2000's anymore, nobody cares about forum dwellers. Social media is what business execs and famous people see since they're on it.

[Autbot_Benz]

yep. but, at least the 'keyboard warriors' will send a very clear message that this is not what we want. hopefully they will learn a very expensive lesson.

studios don't care what whiny complainers about everything who live in there mom's basement have to say :lol:

[Vegita-San]

yes and no.

I say most def yes to the first part. most def yes to the last part. and a flat out no to the middle.

They shouldn't ALIENATE fans the way they've been doing. Episode 7 got a pass because it had nostalgia and people where just happy to see han and lea and the falcon on screen again. Episode 8 had none of that. and fans responded in kind.

yes, they should do what they want to do with the story, but they should ALSO give fans a rewarding experience after waiting 30 years. 7 did that. 8. ... not so much. and there isn't much hope for 9 or solo either. Hell, when luke friggen skywalker says star wars is basically dead to him and he's done... that's something.

Disappointed fans should just go though the stages of grief (https://grief.com/the-five-stages-of-grief/) with this franchise.

They don't owe us a certain kind of story any more than we owe them ticket sales.

All this compounded fan outrage on either side of any given issue is probably a big chunk of what made Lucas sell it all anyway. He's too old and too rich to have to listen to thirty somethings whine for the rest of his life.

[plastroncafe]

Some fans.
You don't speak for all of us, youngling.

[sdp]

Some fans.


You are not wrong but if we're going to use that term then "some fans hate the prequel but some fans love it"

I personally like the prequels but I won't try to argue that they're not disliked by a large group.

[plastroncafe]

You are not wrong but if we're going to use that term then "some fans hate the prequel but some fans love it"

I personally like the prequels but I won't try to argue that they're not disliked by a large group.

Where as the prequels didn't work for me.
However, my saying that neither negates your experience nor disqualifies you as a fan.

[newfan]

yes and no.

yes, they should do what they want to do with the story, but they should ALSO give fans a rewarding experience after waiting 30 years. g.

I had posted then decided against yesterday in relation to 'it's not your star wars' but why not.
While I appreciate the need to introduce new things, I don't like reading 'it's not your star wars' that's fine for the next 3, they are going to be a totally separate thing, but when you are bringing back the original characters and concluding their story fans will see it as 'their star wars' these characters were eagerly awaited.

as for the age comments? I mean, yeah I get young fresh audience etc but I'm pretty sure that people in their 30s and 40s are spending money on these things too, I know I love going to see movies and I buy the movie if I like it, some buy merch or if we share with our children then comes more spending on them, so sure we can be included too cant we? After all, referring to above, weren't we the ones racing out to see the return of these characters?
That being said, there are the older fans who liked these.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah, you folks are getting your wires crossed. Disney is more than well aware that "Star Wars" is not, like, "Blumhouse's Truth or Dare" for 13 year-olds. They know that "Star Wars" is a multi-generational thing that they want to step on tippy-toes with, to ensure it thrives for future generations. And if they feel like even one step or misstep ends up on a prick, they re-calibrate. And apparently with Star Wars, they are not the least bit afraid to shoot the same movie twice. Again and again.

But it's a bit like TMNT at this point. There is no longer any human heart in the center of it all. Just a boardroom of 100 investors. And Kathleen Kennedy pretending to be in charge.

#losingbattle

[Vegita-San]

But it's a bit like TMNT at this point. There is no longer any human heart in the center of it all. Just a boardroom of 100 investors. And Kathleen Kennedy pretending to be in charge.

#losingbattle

bingo.

this is why MOST reboots fail. ID4. Feigbusters. Star Wars. TMNT.

There is no Kevin Feige who loves and understands the characters, AND knows how to make good movies to boot, guiding it all. it's all corporate checkpoints at this stage. get said property to last a few years, reboot and try again if it doesn't work.

and THAT will delude things faster than any reboot will.

[Vegita-San]

I personally like the prequels but I won't try to argue that they're not disliked by a large group.

Neither will I.

I liked MOST of the prequels. it's still got bad acting, annoying characters..and way too much CGI. But on the whole, it FELT like star wars. gave us LOTS of knew stuff, and is good enough to enter nostalgia well remembered.

these new movies feel like throw aways. enjoy for 2 hours and relive if you want to. don't spend too much thought on it.

[plastroncafe]

I love the idea that only NOW is Star Wars corporate, and not like...when the Christmas Special came out.

Or when they made action figures of every minor character and droid.

[CyberCubed]

this is why MOST reboots fail..

Planet of the Apes, Blade Runner, Mad Maxx, etc. all have had successful reboots.

Any superhero series you see on TV or movies right now is essentially a "reboot" of an older incarnation. They're all doing well. TMNT has had at least two successful reboots so far under Viacom, (IDW and Nick 2012), and we'll see how the new show does.

[sdp]

I loved Star Wars so much, one of my favorite franchises and now I just don't care for it. I hate to be a broken record but it just. I can finally understand all those whiny prequel haters felt. And I don't really want to become like they were back in the day constantly complaining about it.

I just don't see how they can fix it at this point, they've ruined the OT more than any prequel could ever. I guess I'll always have the original movies and look at the new stuff like I did the EU back in the day "enjoy the cool stuff, don't even think about the bad stuff". It's just so disappointing.

All I know is I felt so alone after The Force Awakens released since no one shared my opinion but now I feel the majority is on my side.

I love the idea that only NOW is Star Wars corporate, and not like...when the Christmas Special came out.

Or when they made action figures of every minor character and droid.

It's always been a making money business but it's different ideologies. Multi-National Disney who answers to shareholders or Lucas the rich guy who controls every decision.

They want to treat Star Wars like Marvel and put people in charge who are OT fanboys. There's also the political agenda but that's not the reason Disney Star Wars sucks now no matter how much people may make it out to be, but I do think it's the reason so many are defending this garbage (not to say there aren't fans who may like it).

[Sumac]

Planet of the Apes, Blade Runner, Mad Maxx, etc. all have had successful reboots.
He had said "most" not "all".
Besides, Blade Runner is a sequel and Mad Max more of the soft reboot / sequel.
And Planet of the Apes had failed reboot back in 2001.,

[CyberCubed]

He had said "most" not "all".
Besides, Blade Runner is a sequel and Mad Max more of the soft reboot / sequel.
And Planet of the Apes had failed reboot back in 2001.,

They're still rebooted franchises even if some are sequels, especially given the 30+ year gap for Blade Runner. As for the 2001 Planet of the Apes, sure, but that was 15 years ago now. They waited 10 years to 2011 for the next Planet of the Apes reboot and its been successful enough for 3 sequels and a 4th is planned.

There's also a bunch of other stuff I could mention, but given what Vegita-san said, old franchises are rebooted all the time. Almost any popular franchise right now has been around for decades, I said this when I realized everything I liked as a kid back in the 80's-90's is still around today in some form just in a new incarnation.

Anything that made a tremendous amount of money in the past never truly dies. Same reason Dragonball came back with Super after an 18 year hiatus.

[sdp]

Back in the day they were called remakes, and Planet of the Apes 2001 was called a remake. Back in the day they also mentioned "everything in the cinema's is now a remake or a sequel".


Things haven't changed since the early 00's.

[Sumac]

They're still rebooted franchises even if some are sequels, especially given the 30+ year gap for Blade Runner. As for the 2001 Planet of the Apes, sure, but that was 15 years ago now. They waited 10 years to 2011 for the next Planet of the Apes reboot and its been successful enough for 3 sequels and a 4th is planned.
Erm, do you know the concept of the "sequel", right?

[Vegita-San]

All I know is I felt so alone after The Force Awakens released since no one shared my opinion but now I feel the majority is on my side.


They want to treat Star Wars like Marvel and put people in charge who are OT fanboys. There's also the political agenda but that's not the reason Disney Star Wars sucks now no matter how much people may make it out to be, but I do think it's the reason so many are defending this garbage (not to say there aren't fans who may like it).

as i recall, there where people who hated TFA and knew it was nothing but an ep 4 rip off. but, it was fun enough, most where willing to give it a pass...hoping they fixed what was wrong in the sequel. that didn't happen, they made things worse, and that IMHO is why the tide is turning fast.

not to get into this again, but the political agenda is a HUGE reason why things are the way they are. I imagine KK sitting in an office and saying 'OK, first up, make sure shorter brown haired british woman is in this film and in 80% of the scenes. after that, do whatever the hell you want'. I also imagine her story group has a check list of things papa disney and KK want included.
they could probably care less if the story makes sense.

they probably spend so much time getting THOSE things in order first, that by the time the story comes along, they are too tired to care about quality and just greenlit whatever comes in first.


that's my opinion and i'm stickin with it

[plastroncafe]

There's also the political agenda but that's not the reason Disney Star Wars sucks now no matter how much people may make it out to be, but I do think it's the reason so many are defending this garbage (not to say there aren't fans who may like it).

There was always a political agenda in Star Wars.
Every movie has one. Every work of fiction has one.

[Andrew NDB]

Looking at Rottentomatoes, here are the audience rankings for all of the Star Wars movies:

Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope = 96%
Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back = 97%
Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi = 94%

Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace = 59%
Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones = 57%
Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Jedi = 65%

Rogue One = 87%

And now we have the first two installments of the sequel trilogy...

Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens = 88%

Which brings us to "The Last Jedi."

Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi = 47%

47%? Shesus. "Some fans" may have really liked "The Last Jedi," but it's apparently less than half of the audience. It's literally the least liked of any Star Wars film, and by a significantly large margin.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Looking at Rottentomatoes, here are the audience rankings for all of the Star Wars movies:

Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope = 96%
Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back = 97%
Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi = 94%

Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace = 59%
Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones = 57%
Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Jedi = 65%

Rogue One = 87%

And now we have the first two installments of the sequel trilogy...

Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens = 88%

Which brings us to "The Last Jedi."

Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi = 47%

47%? Shesus. "Some fans" may have really liked "The Last Jedi," but it's apparently less than half of the audience. It's literally the least liked of any Star Wars film, and by a significantly large margin.


That's pretty damned harsh. Yeowch.

[Vegita-San]

except for the inspid anakin/padme 'romance' scenes, I Actually quite liked Episode 2. Fett as the clone template was a bit much. but think they made up for it by making fett a clone.

[plastroncafe]

47% of users who rated a movie is not the same thing as half the audience.

That's like trying to pass off 47% of voters as the same thing as 47% of the people who came out to vote.

[newfan]

How accurate of a reflection is that site? Genuine question, I don't know it well (it's user groups etc)Anyway, ouch!

[plastroncafe]

How accurate of a reflection is that site? Genuine question, I don't know it well. Anyway, ouch!

As with any election, the numbers only reflect those who showed up to vote.
So they're very accurate when it comes to representing the thoughts of certain people (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/men-are-sabotaging-the-online-reviews-of-tv-shows-aimed-at-women/).

[Andrew NDB]

I think all of those percentages are fair. I'd be interested, though, to see if "The Force Awakens"' audience "voting booth" had a moratorium on votes for about... the first two months when it was released. People went in really excited and wanting to like it no matter what... by "The Last Jedi," expectations were well tempered.

But I guess you could say the same about the prequels, and those scores are notably still lower than the OT's.

[sdp]

There was always a political agenda in Star Wars.
Every movie has one. Every work of fiction has one.

Not like this one, there's different approaches. I personally loved the way the prequel trilogies showed us how the senate was able to be manipulated, the way TLJ did it was not the way to do it as it'll rub off on people the wrong way and they didn't even have entire scenes related to politics like the Prequels did (though I guess these scenes also rubbed people the wrong way since most hate them).

Again, I didn't even notice these things while watching The Last Jedi, it wasn't until it was pointed out to me that I saw it. I also don't see things like Rey/Fynn being the main characters as "political", they added diversity. I don't think it's the problem with Disney Star Wars even if I may not be a fan, it's far from ruining Star Wars.

How accurate of a reflection is that site? Genuine question, I don't know it well (it's user groups etc)Anyway, ouch!


Up in the air I'd say.

This Rotten Tomatoes score culture is poison and I hate it how people always try to back up their arguments because of it. You can enjoy or dislike stuff and it doesn't matter what these "scores" say. With that said, many people base their opinions based on those scores so it ends up being somewhat accurate. "Oh it has a bad score so it's bad" and they go ahead and write or make videos about it regardless.

However RT actually had glowing scores for TLJ and it's fans who rated it so low because they hated it. "geek culture" blogs for whatever reason may be (I have my theories) kept doubling down and defending TLJ and saying most people loved it and that only a "loud minority" was making trouble online and that they were "racists/sexists" and later they said it was 4chan trolls etc. But now most people accept people hate the movie and they have to go for arguments like Plastron's of "some people like it some people hate it". But just ask around and the majority dislike it, just ask your different friends and co-workers to get a "real" feel of what people like or dislike. If you go by the internet you'll get extremely skewed answers depending on where you ask.

[plastroncafe]

The plot of the original trilogy was that a homogeneous authoritarian regime was taken down by a ragtag group of diverse people.
The badguys were dressed in outfits inspired by the sartorial choices made by the Third Reich.
With the exception of the post production addition of James Earl Jones, everyone in the Empire is a white dude.

These aren't politically neutral.

[sdp]

The plot of the original trilogy was that a homogeneous authoritarian regime was taken down by a ragtag group of diverse people.
The badguys were dressed in outfits inspired by the sartorial choices made by the Third Reich.

These aren't politically neutral.


I don't think most people considered having the Empire resemble the Nazi's too be a big political statement. Pretty much everyone considers Nazi's the bad guys*, hell having the Nazis was just an easy way to say who the bad guy was if you were lazy.

The prequels are a better example of the point you want to make, they were using fear and war as a way to get a hold of more power which was more relevant at the time since it's when the US was going into war in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The new movies cut out all the "politics" because it was boring in the prequels apparently, I found that to be the most interesting part about the prequels but whatever. These Disney films are going one extreme of a political ideology though but that's as far as I'll get into it because it's an endless debate and we differ in opinions and it's just a small reason as to why Disney Star Wars is not any good.

With the exception of the post production addition of James Earl Jones, everyone in the Empire is a white dude.



Well James Earl Jones was playing the voice of Darth Vader so he's also "white" regardless. This is actually brought up in the Expanded Universe somewhat, not so much about color but that the Empire was "speciest" and if you weren't human then you couldn't get a good rank or promotion if you were an alien. This is why everyone in the empire is usually human and the only one who isn't and got a high rank was Grand Admiral Thrawn which meant he was a total badass to make it to that level as an Alien.

[plastroncafe]

The prequels are a better example of the point you want to make, they were using fear and war as a way to get a hold of more power which was more relevant at the time since it's when the US was going into war in Iraq and Afghanistan.

No they're really not, but thanks for the suggestion?

The new movies cut out all the "politics" because it was boring in the prequels apparently, I found that to be the most interesting part about the prequels but whatever. These Disney films are going one extreme of a political ideology though but that's as far as I'll get into it because it's an endless debate and we differ in opinions and it's just a small reason as to why Disney Star Wars is not any good.


I'm confused, if the new movies cut out all the politics, then what's left to "rub people the wrong way" and how did they "go about it wrong?"
Or is it not political if there isn't a council meeting of some sort?

The original trilogy presented a space opera that had echos of the last great world war, and was made by a generation of people dealing with the US involvement in Vietnam. A far more murky endeavor than WWII.

The Prequels dealt with the political wheeling and dealings that brought us the rise of an authoritarian regime, by echoing the nation building going on in the middle east.

Where as the most current movies touch upon the fact that even if you defeat a group that most would agree are the personification of evil, that doesn't mean they're eradicated from the earth.

Taking down the Emperor didn't destroy either his methods or his philosophies, all it did was throw the universe into an intermediate period of chaos where those with means could take advantage of the power vacuum.

Instead of old white dudes running things with a supremacist bent, now we've got young white dudes running things with a supremacist bent.

And folks are making money hedging their bets on which ever side will come out victor...all while making a profit by selling arms.

You didn't like it. It didn't work for you.

I liked a good chunk of it, and while I enjoyed TLJ fleshed out the world a bit more, it had pacing and tone issues.
Basically, I liked the tent pole plot points, and saw what they were trying to do with the story, but didn't necessarily agree with how they got there.
But as I've said: I'm no less a fan of this franchise for enjoying the parts of this movie, than someone who hated it because...Rey's elbows were too pointy for their taste.

[Sumac]

There was always a political agenda in Star Wars.
Every movie has one. Every work of fiction has one.
Wrong.

Agenda means "intention" on the part of the author to push their views on people. Yes, it is true, that all authors influenced by their surroundings, however, it's not true, that every piece of work actively attempts to push some kind of political or any other views on people.

In that case, original Star Wars didn't largely had agenda. It was originally conceived as take on the US politics in Vietnam, however, message was largely diluted, especially since key segment, where bunch of aborigines take on advanced empire tech and won with stick and stones, was cut from the story (and later reinstated in Return of the Jedi). And the main good guys, rebels, are not really at technological advantage, when compared to empire.

In the end, it was generic "good guys rebels" against "bad guys empire" space opera. Not much of agenda.

Also, not every work fiction has "agenda" as a whole. Sometimes a story is just a story.

[Vegita-San]

and even if there where an agenda, with the original star wars, the STORY came first. any 'agenda' came second.

with these new movies, it's the reverse. agenda first, any attempt at story second or third.

it's pretty clear the agenda is there, most just don't want to deal with it or admit it.

[Sumac]

and even if there where an agenda, with the original star wars, the STORY came first. any 'agenda' came second.
Precisely.

with these new movies, it's the reverse. agenda first, any attempt at story second or third.
I'd say it's not much political agenda, as much marketing agenda. Lefties are popular now (by "virtue" of being loud and scandalous, like kids) and it's a fad to pander to them to build a "progressive image" for the company and make good word of mouth for their products..

[Andrew NDB]

Planet of the Apes,

Two reboots so far, yes.

Blade Runner,

Sequel/revival.

Mad Maxx

Sequel/revival.

TMNT has had at least two successful reboots so far under Viacom, (IDW and Nick 2012)

Three reboots: the PD movies rebooted the movies, TMNT 2012 rebooted the 4Kids show, and Rise of the TMNT rebooted TMNT 2012.

IDW didn't "reboot" anything. While unlikely, TMNT Vol. 4, #33 could come out tomorrow. IDW didn't "end" volume 4, nor does IDW even get to do that. IDW is it's own thing, same as Archie was during vol. 1 of Mirage.

They're still rebooted franchises

Revived franchises. Nothing was rebooted about them. Same story, all history intact. Amount of time between sequels = irrelevant. If "Shrek 5" comes out next year, that is not a reboot... that's just "Shrek 5." No one can say "The Color of Money" rebooted "The Hustler," or that "Indiana Jones & the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull" rebooted the Indiana Jones series. That's stupid. That's using the word wrong.

[Vegita-San]

I'd say it's not much political agenda, as much marketing agenda. Lefties are popular now (by "virtue" of being loud and scandalous, like kids) and it's a fad to pander to them to build a "progressive image" for the company and make good word of mouth for their products..

I would almost agree with this, except for the fact that there really ARE some people who believe that kind of agenda and image.

a few are even on here, who I have no doubt are 100% genuine in what they believe, and are not faking it.

Hollywood is so far up it's own butt....even if they started faking it...at one point somewhere it switched to full on belief. and they no longer see that what they are trying to do is hurting what they are trying to do.

[Sumac]

Hollywood is so far up it's own butt....even if they started faking it...at one point somewhere it switched to full on belief. and they no longer see that what they are trying to do is hurting what they are trying to do.
If one wears mask long enough, then mask can merge with their face.

[Andrew NDB]

Someone I respect... "encapsulated" "The Last Jedi" in I think a pretty dead-on way. Here it is:

"Almost nothing happens in 'Last Jedi' of any consequence.

The bulk of the plot is the cinema's slowest car chase (with plot holes galore.)

Characters go off to find the ONE guy who can hack a computer...except they don't, and find someone else who is conveniently there and can get them out of a prison they land in because they're crap at parking.

A bad guy who is never set up intelligently gets killed.

A character we've been waiting years to see dies (in a way that makes Padme's death look almost intelligent.)

The rebels leave one base to go to another...which they then leave.

There's a climactic fight...in which not one blow is landed.

There's the Leia Poppins moment which is done with such incompetence, you forgive ever harsh thing you ever said about JarJar.

Worst Star Wars Movie. Period."

[Vegita-San]

he CLEARLY hates women and wants them to fail. doesn't anyone see that?


----this is sarcasm. google it ---

[CyberCubed]

You can say the same thing for any movie.

[newfan]

Someone I respect... "encapsulated" "The Last Jedi" in I think a pretty dead-on way. Here it is:

"Almost nothing happens in 'Last Jedi' of any consequence.

The bulk of the plot is the cinema's slowest car chase (with plot holes galore.)

Characters go off to find the ONE guy who can hack a computer...except they don't, and find someone else who is conveniently there and can get them out of a prison they land in because they're crap at parking.

A bad guy who is never set up intelligently gets killed.

A character we've been waiting years to see dies (in a way that makes Padme's death look almost intelligent.)

The rebels leave one base to go to another...which they then leave.

There's a climactic fight...in which not one blow is landed.

There's the Leia Poppins moment which is done with such incompetence, you forgive ever harsh thing you ever said about JarJar.

Worst Star Wars Movie. Period."

Yeah there are a few point there. Andrew you had said you liked it originally, or enjoyed it, though you had issues with it, are you liking it less over time or much them same? So you enjoyed it but there are still all the issues?

[sdp]

I'm confused, if the new movies cut out all the politics, then what's left to "rub people the wrong way" and how did they "go about it wrong?"
Or is it not political if there isn't a council meeting of some sort?

The original trilogy presented a space opera that had echos of the last great world war, and was made by a generation of people dealing with the US involvement in Vietnam. A far more murky endeavor than WWII.

The Prequels dealt with the political wheeling and dealings that brought us the rise of an authoritarian regime, by echoing the nation building going on in the middle east.

Where as the most current movies touch upon the fact that even if you defeat a group that most would agree are the personification of evil, that doesn't mean they're eradicated from the earth.

Taking down the Emperor didn't destroy either his methods or his philosophies, all it did was throw the universe into an intermediate period of chaos where those with means could take advantage of the power vacuum.

Instead of old white dudes running things with a supremacist bent, now we've got young white dudes running things with a supremacist bent.

And folks are making money hedging their bets on which ever side will come out victor...all while making a profit by selling arms.

As with many works of fiction you're trying too hard to look at things that aren't there. It's Space Fantasy at its core, there's plenty of political heavy fiction if you prefer, Star Wars isn't it and I don't know why you keep bringing it up, I already mentioned it's not what makes the new movies bad (or good). I didn't even notice the feminist agenda until pointed out later, I was too mad about everything else they had done to care.

You didn't like it. It didn't work for you.

than someone who hated it because...Rey's elbows were too pointy for their taste.

It's more of a "You liked it. It worked for you." And that's cool. The majority didn't.

But see, your second point, people didn't dislike the movie because of their anti-feminist agenda as you want to imply with that comment. I'm sure some didn't because of that very reason, but just like those who like it because of that agenda, they're but a minority in the opinions of the film.

[plastroncafe]

As with many works of fiction you're trying too hard to look at things that aren't there. It's Space Fantasy at its core, there's plenty of political heavy fiction if you prefer, Star Wars isn't it and I don't know why you keep bringing it up, I already mentioned it's not what makes the new movies bad (or good). I didn't even notice the feminist agenda until pointed out later, I was too mad about everything else they had done to care.

Star Wars most certainly IS it.
Popular culture need not be overt in its political affiliations to be political.
Popular culture holds up a mirror to the social norms and conventions of the day.

Maybe you don't see that because someone hasn't pointed it out to you yet?

It's more of a "You liked it. It worked for you." And that's cool. The majority didn't.

On the one hand, uh...okay?
On the other, are we sure about that majority?

But see, your second point, people didn't dislike the movie because of their anti-feminist agenda as you want to imply with that comment. I'm sure some didn't because of that very reason, but just like those who like it because of that agenda, they're but a minority in the opinions of the film.

That's not what my second point was.

But as I've said: I'm no less a fan of this franchise for enjoying the parts of this movie, than someone who hated it because...Rey's elbows were too pointy for their taste.

Someone was used specifically to indicate that a person who holds that opinion about Rey's elbows is a non-majority member.
And we both agree that there are likely people out there who hold that opinion.

My second point was merely that I'm not less of a fan of this movie because I enjoyed part of it, just like that other Someone isn't any less of a fan for their objectification of Rey.

[Andrew NDB]

On the one hand, uh...okay?
On the other, are we sure about that majority?

http://www.highlander-community.com/rotten.jpg

Pretty sure (https://movieweb.com/star-wars-last-jedi-low-audience-score-rotten-tomatoes-real/).

[Vegita-San]

http://www.highlander-community.com/rotten.jpg

Pretty sure (https://movieweb.com/star-wars-last-jedi-low-audience-score-rotten-tomatoes-real/).

I thought it was confirmed those where bots? :D:D:D:D:lol::lol::lol::trolleye::trolleye:

[Andrew NDB]

lol... Rian Johnson deletes 20,000 tweets. Can't say that I blame him, though.

https://www.cosmicbooknews.com/rian-johnson-deletes-tweets

[Vegita-San]

getting ready to move on from star wars and doesn't want to look like a KK crazy?

[Shark_Blade]

lol... Rian Johnson deletes 20,000 tweets. Can't say that I blame him, though.

https://www.cosmicbooknews.com/rian-johnson-deletes-tweets

I pity the intern/PA hired to delete those tweets.

[plastroncafe]

There's an app for that.

[Andrew NDB]

Oscar Isaac on "The Last Jedi"'s negative reactions:

http://www.darkhorizons.com/oscar-isaac-on-last-jedi-reaction/

Basically, "You don't like it? Go out and make your own movie, then!"

[Vegita-San]

that was the safest, blandest, whitest answer I think i've ever seen.
delivered in a non confrontational way.

I guess it's kind of refreshing..but it also really shoes there's no passion for what he does in these movies, I think. either that, or he's just a really bland and boring interview.

[Andrew NDB]

that was the safest, blandest, whitest answer I think i've ever seen.
delivered in a non confrontational way.

I guess it's kind of refreshing..but it also really shoes there's no passion for what he does in these movies, I think. either that, or he's just a really bland and boring interview.

Is that what you got out of it? Maybe it's just me, but I read it very passive aggressive. Like, "Don't like my movie? Go make your own multi-million dollar movie and see how you do!"

[Vegita-San]

i didn't see it phrased in an insulting way. I thought he went out of his way to try and make it sound middle of the road. not really staying on one side or the other.

[Sumac]

Oscar Isaac on "The Last Jedi"'s negative reactions:

http://www.darkhorizons.com/oscar-isaac-on-last-jedi-reaction/

Basically, "You don't like it? Go out and make your own movie, then!"
What a dimwit.

[Vegita-San]

What a dimwit.

maybe a dimwit, but I didn't really get condescending from that answer either.
there where different ways he could have phrased it for that to be the case.

[Vegita-San]

in other news, hollywood is insane.

why would you only target the idiot producers like pascal and kennedy?

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/hollywood-con-queen-fbi-opens-investigation-1137720

[ZariusTwo]

f83D18xL7VE

[Andrew NDB]

f83D18xL7VE

OMG... yes! I've been waiting for this for hella.

[MikeandRaph87]

Johnson seems to think his trilogy is still ago.

https://comicbook.com/starwars/amp/2018/08/30/star-wars-rian-johnson-trilogy-new-films-the-last-jedi/

[Krutch]

Johnson seems to think his trilogy is still ago.

https://comicbook.com/starwars/amp/2018/08/30/star-wars-rian-johnson-trilogy-new-films-the-last-jedi/

He's delusional. It's not gonna happen.

[Andrew NDB]

Well, let's get the absolute facts straight.

1. It was never promised he would direct this trilogy. Or write. Or that he's even writing anything now.

2. He admitted publicly he hasn't committed to directing any one of the installments in this trilogy.

3. He is only "developing" this trilogy. Disney can yank him out of this role or he can complete his work and it will be picked up by someone else or discarded entirely.

4. This "in development" trilogy could vanish at any point. No one is denying that.

[Andrew NDB]

Apparently now Russian bots are to blame with why TLJ sucks?

http://www.darkhorizons.com/russian-bots-propagated-last-jedi-hate/

[Vegita-San]

sad part is, there are people who will believe and defend it. not mutually exclusive.

[ZariusTwo]

bdJxdgiEZRg

[Sumac]

Some idiots can't just accept that not everyone masturbate to something that they like and using political orientation is a very convenient way to put all those "bad people who don't something that I don't like" down.

It's stupid and disgusting, because, it devalues everything about ideology that is trying to do it.

Though, I find it more sad that some cretins WILL believe this ****.

[Leo656]

I can only speak anecdotally. But I have yet to speak face-to-face with a single human being who enjoyed "The Last Jedi". Swear to God or your deity of choice.

I've spoken to a few people who liked parts of it but didn't think it was good as a whole. And a lot more people who completely hated it. I find that most of those people claim to not be on the internet very often.

I often find that when it comes to films, The Internet says one thing and "real life" people say something totally different. It's not unique to this film, either.

[Sumac]

TLJ is a darling of lefties, because, female protagonist and, because, it supposedly "handles some modern issues, something-something allegory to rise of fascism, something-something, old heroes are losers", so they will protect as if it was their personal bible.

Reality is obviously different, but when zealots were bothered with reality?

[Vegita-San]

The reality is their Star Wars IQ is Very, VERY low.

[Andrew NDB]

Is Rey was in the OT instead of Luke, she'd have dropped that torpoedo into the exhaust shaft with no help from Obi-Wan, would have aced all of Yoda's training with no problems, then would have killed Vader in their lightsaber battle in Empire. There wouldn't even be a Return of the Jedi.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I can only speak anecdotally. But I have yet to speak face-to-face with a single human being who enjoyed "The Last Jedi". Swear to God or your deity of choice.

I've spoken to a few people who liked parts of it but didn't think it was good as a whole. And a lot more people who completely hated it. I find that most of those people claim to not be on the internet very often.

I often find that when it comes to films, The Internet says one thing and "real life" people say something totally different. It's not unique to this film, either.

Same story. Every guy or girl I ask for an opinion, they like parts of it... but man, that stuff with Luke really sucked, or Rose was terrible, or Poe was an idiot.

[Leo656]

Leia Poppins had me super close to whipping my soda at the screen. I sincerely hope someone got punched in the tit for that.

[Andrew NDB]

Leia Poppins had me super close to whipping my soda at the screen. I sincerely hope someone got punched in the tit for that.

That really didn't bother me. But pretty much everything that bothers everybody else does.

[Leo656]

Carrie Fischer's late-era nose was not made for extreme close-ups.

There are other reasons. But that's one.

[sdp]

Leia in general was worthless and got the worst treatment out of the original 3. Han going back to ANH Han was lame but at least it was fun, Luke's absence had a ****** explanation but overall he still got to do cool stuff. What did Leia do in the new trilogy that was at least cool? Nothing, her 5 second CG appearance in Rogue One was better than all her roles in the sequel trilogy.

[Andrew NDB]

Leia in general was worthless and got the worst treatment out of the original 3.

Mostly by Fisher's own design. She apparently made it clear from the beginning she wanted very little to do.

Han going back to ANH Han was lame but at least it was fun,

Super lame. Not fun.

Luke's absence had a ****** explanation but overall he still got to do cool stuff.

No cool stuff. The only "cool" thing he did was the Force projection and the shoulder brush-off, which everyone hated.

What did Leia do in the new trilogy that was at least cool?

I'd argue the Mary Poppins maneuver, if only for the simple reason that we finally got to see Leia use the Force in some meaningful way. Particularly after we were told she never bothered to learn the Force by Abrams in the previous movie because [insert bullsh** reasoning].

[Leo656]

I wanted to see Leia use the Force somehow, but not like that. That was the corniest goddamn thing I've ever seen. Almost anything else would've been better.

It's made so much worse by the fact that the movie clearly and strongly wants you to buy the moment as Crazy Awesome.

Clearly a "F*ck it, they're nerds, they don't care" moment.

[MikeandRaph87]

https://screenrant.com/last-jedi-luke-original-trilogy-changes-comparison/

Who does he think he is fooling?

[Andrew NDB]

Mark Hamill says we should stop electing any male leaders:

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/nov/14/mark-hamill-calls-end-electing-male-leaders/?fbclid=IwAR2kIQTSvMrbxeYPRpAp-m15jwQK8rX77_TUCxiJ3lRIrPGlr6yfq2hUpYE

[Vegita-San]

Mark Hamill says we should stop electing any male leaders:

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/nov/14/mark-hamill-calls-end-electing-male-leaders/?fbclid=IwAR2kIQTSvMrbxeYPRpAp-m15jwQK8rX77_TUCxiJ3lRIrPGlr6yfq2hUpYE

you can't be playing both sides, Mr.Hamil. Grow some balls and choose one. sigh.

[Autbot_Benz]

you can't be playing both sides, Mr.Hamil. Grow some balls and choose one. sigh.



I call this my Vegita-San gif

https://i.imgur.com/Egh3Lhe.gif

[Candy Kappa]

I call this my Vegita-San gif

https://i.imgur.com/Egh3Lhe.gif

Perfect :lol:

[Sumac]

Mark Hamill says we should stop electing any male leaders:

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/nov/14/mark-hamill-calls-end-electing-male-leaders/?fbclid=IwAR2kIQTSvMrbxeYPRpAp-m15jwQK8rX77_TUCxiJ3lRIrPGlr6yfq2hUpYE
C'mon, stop pandering to crazies.
Don't become second Feig, Luke!!

[ZariusTwo]

I call this my Vegita-San gif

https://i.imgur.com/Egh3Lhe.gif

After seeing the state Theresa May left Britain in yesterday, they are indeed to be feared...because they f*ck everything up:P

[Vegita-San]

I'd do a gif for the crazy ness of autbot, but that would be rude and un professional.

I saw all the replies to mark hamil's tweet. nice to see the 85% of them seemed to be calling him out for the nuttiness.

[Egon1982]

He had said "most" not "all".
Besides, Blade Runner is a sequel and Mad Max more of the soft reboot / sequel.
And Planet of the Apes had failed reboot back in 2001.,

Blade Runner was a sequel, not reboot.

Rise of the Planet of the Apes, Batman Begins, Man of Steel, Casino Royale and Spider-Man Homecoming are true reboots.

Elm Street, Robocop and Rob Zombie's Halloween are remakes.

[Andrew NDB]

Blade Runner was a sequel, not reboot.

Rise of the Planet of the Apes, Batman Begins, Man of Steel, Casino Royale and Spider-Man Homecoming are true reboots.

Elm Street, Robocop and Rob Zombie's Halloween are remakes.

Agreed! But on the latter three... they are reboots AND remakes. They can be both, and they are.

[Egon1982]

Agreed! But on the latter three... they are reboots AND remakes. They can be both, and they are.

Not really because Robocop and Elm Street are the same basic story as the original movies and aren't completely different stories as they are remakes plain and simple because they are retelling the same story as the originals.

You have to tell a completely very different story in a competely different to be a reboot like Rise of the Planet of the Apes which is creating a new franchise with a competely different origin story, same for Batman Begins as it's not the same story as the 1989 Burton film and same for Dark Knight which is completely different than 1989's Joker vs Batman story.

[Andrew NDB]

Rian Johnson still proud of The Last Jedi. Says he really "swung at the ball."

https://www.darkhorizons.com/rian-johnson-still-proud-of-last-jedi/

[IMJ]

Remember all of his trashing the fans and inventing a world of Misogynists' and racists and crybabies as explanation for the fandom he screwed over with his movie?

Of course a guy like that is going to double down years later and defiantly discuss his "pride" for his $#!(show. That guy should never get another theater, disc or streaming dollar again for his work - not only because of the Last Jedi but literally because of who and how he is.

[Leo656]

But I mean, even aside from that idiot, some other idiot at Disney actually really thought that a "trilogy" of disjointed, unconnected films (except for the cast) was the best way to do the Sequel Trilogy.

"Let's use the same characters, and ostensibly tell one long story in three parts, but let's have each movie be made by different people, who don't talk to each other, who have wildly different ideas and values and storytelling methods. I'm sure it'll all work out!"

Like, that might work out okay for an anthology spin-off series, but not for what they were actually trying to do. At the very LEAST, if they were going to have different people make each movie in the trilogy they needed to sit down at the very beginning and create a longform outline of the plot and story beats. Making it up as they went along did more damage than anything else, because you could TELL they were just completely making it all up as they went along.

YES, the Original Trilogy suffers from many of the same problems, but that was many years ago and things were a lot more haphazard then. There's no excuse to just wing it NOW, when you're playing with that much money and so on. As the sequel trilogy went on you could just really tell that the people making the movies had no f*cking idea what they were doing or what the actual message of the movies was supposed to be. No cohesion whatsoever.

[member_removed]

But I mean, even aside from that idiot, some other idiot at Disney actually really thought that a "trilogy" of disjointed, unconnected films (except for the cast) was the best way to do the Sequel Trilogy.


I think the idea has some merit, under the right circumstances could work, but that's big ask.

Using the Alien franchise as my example, with the first two films (at least) we get two very different movies told by two different story tellers. As for 3 and Resurrection, while not great, I'd take them over Prometheus or Covenant

I think the Alien Franchise worked as an ongoing narrative (at least the story of Ripley) told by different story tellers.

I think this model could have worked for SW, but it needed a Kevin Feige type, to mould and help the direction of story. Hell all 3 scripts should have been finished before principle filming began.

Unfournately for Star Wars, Kennedy is no Feige.

I think the rot started when they let JJ rewrite Michael Arndt's script.

[Sumac]

Ruin Johnson is an egotistical freak.
Can't wait to see some allegations against him, like it has happens with other "brave and stunning" leftists.

I think the rot started when they let JJ rewrite Michael Arndt's script.
The rot had started when they decided to remake OT story.
It doomed DT to be derivative and boring piece of crap.

I don't think Alien is a good example. It accidentally ended up with a something resembling a coherent arc, but otherwise is a mess.

SW, by its very nature, should be more coherent from the onset, since its basically one big story divided into chapters.

[Andrew NDB]

I don't say this often but... man... this really makes me want to punch Rian in the mouth. Badly.

https://cosmicbook.news/star-wars-rian-johnson-mark-hamill-not-luke-skywalker?fbclid=IwAR2kXgnMsuqLSZVGlTioZiMy05vgU0m owu9-R0JH2z_399anyqUdC7rAzls

[Sumac]

I don't say this often but... man... this really makes me want to punch Rian in the mouth. Badly.

https://cosmicbook.news/star-wars-rian-johnson-mark-hamill-not-luke-skywalker?fbclid=IwAR2kXgnMsuqLSZVGlTioZiMy05vgU0m owu9-R0JH2z_399anyqUdC7rAzls
Ruin being a retard is nothing new - he might be a talented director, but piece of **** in any other respect.

[CyberCubed]

I wonder what they could of done otherwise. The set-up was already done with Episode 7 with Luke already "missing" or "hiding" and Han was already killed at the end of Episode 7, so already we wouldn't have had the original cast reunited anyway.

Even if Luke was written differently, I imagine we'd only have him share a few scenes with Leia, and then most of it would be Luke training Rey (even if it might have gone a little differently) and I'm not sure what else. Honestly most of the damage was already done with the way Episode 7 was written.

[Andrew NDB]

I wonder what they could of done otherwise. The set-up was already done with Episode 7 with Luke already "missing" or "hiding" and Han was already killed at the end of Episode 7, so already we wouldn't have had the original cast reunited anyway.

Even if Luke was written differently, I imagine we'd only have him share a few scenes with Leia, and then most of it would be Luke training Rey (even if it might have gone a little differently) and I'm not sure what else. Honestly most of the damage was already done with the way Episode 7 was written.

Not really. Han aside, episode 7 threw a lot of possible directions for the next writer/directors to go with 8 and 9.

Things clearly set up by 7:

* Plagueis being revealed as Snoke. They even used the same music the Plagueis scene had in Episode 3. So the trilogy could end with all the good guys facing the master of Palpatine.

* The story of how Maz got Luke's lightsaber from Episode 5.

* Finn becoming a Jedi. A love story with Rey.

* Luke coming out of retirement and doing badass Jedi Master stuff. Reuniting with Leia, of course. Training Rey properly.

* Some kind of payoff to Max Von Sydow's character.

* Rey being revealed the daughter of Luke. Daisy has publicly said she was told that she was such during the filming of 7.

To name just a few things. But it turned out Rian Johnson just came along and decided, "OK, I'm going to do none of those things that JJ set up and do some kind of meta commentary on 'nothing matters.'" And the SJWs saw actual fans upset about this and Episode 8 and decided they loved this.

[Leo656]

At some point in the past 10-15 years, "subverting expectations" became more important than just telling a good story.

You see it with everything nowadays and there's a bunch of people who swear by it. Any criticism you come up with, they fire back with "At least it wasn't predictable and boring! It sUbVerTs eXpEctAtIons!1!"

I don't care if an arc or a plotline is "predictable" so long as it's told and executed well. But almost all of these attempts to "subvert expectations" fall flat on their ass, because they try SO hard to do That that everything else - including logical plot and character development - falls far into the background.

I always come back to the Pizza Delivery example. If you order a pizza, and the guy walks up to your door, rings the bell and slaps you with a frozen carp, are you realistically gonna be Happy or Sad? And are you gonna be MORE happy or sad when the guy insists you should actually love what he did because "Hey, you didn't expect THAT, did ya!"? Like "No, I wasn't expecting That, because no reasonable person would ever have." Just because you swerved someone doesn't mean you did a good job.

Maybe this Johnson clown was a wrestling fan. That's about the only time when you can constantly deliver the opposite of what you promised and forever delay any kind of real payoff to your storytelling, and even then it only happens because the fans are too dumb to ever complain or stop paying for a product that repeatedly insults their intelligence. So maybe that's where Johnson got the idea.

[Andrew NDB]

The "Holdo Maneuver," if lore accurate:

f1TFYzYects